Guild Wars 2

morrolan.9608:

Its called a strawman argument and yes it is annoying. The vast majority who object to the ascended implementation do not want it handed to us on a platter.

Exactly. I want different, l_e_s_s boring methods of acquistion. Why is crafting a method to get last tier of weapon and not some challenging content? Too hard for try-hards?

This filter…

Anet is so kittening out of touch with their players and their own game it’s pathetic. Seriously….who is the dumb kitten at Anet who thought adding WAY MORE GRIND to the game, especially at this point in its life cycle (aka not a good time), was a good idea?!? They’re killing their own game faster than what even Bioware did with SWTOR. It’s so kittening sad. I had such high hopes for this game. Anet has disappointed at every single turn. Literally, EVERY SINGLE TURN. I don’t know what the kitten they’re smoking over at Anet HQ, but they have got to get their heads out of their kitten before this game takes a dive in the toilet for good.

Zeph.5927:

Anet is so kittening out of touch with their players and their own game it’s pathetic. Seriously….who is the dumb kitten at Anet who thought adding WAY MORE GRIND to the game, especially at this point in its life cycle (aka not a good time), was a good idea?!?

And they thought it was a good idea to not even add asc weapon drops to the BLTC where at least if we didn’t want to craft and grind we could buy them. How ridiculous that we can buy legendaries but not ascended.

Could someone explain how leveling crafting to 500 is not a grind?

I just consider this update to be one that increases the blood pressure and will leave a few more gray hairs on our heads…

ANet, I thought you said that this game would have no mass grinding…. cause if that’s what you said, then what the heck is up with that Ascended Weapon Update?

Wethospu.6437:

Could someone explain how leveling crafting to 500 is not a grind?

their logic goes somewhat like this:

“if you grinded hard for the past YEAR then leveling to 500 and maybe making 1 ascended weapon is not a grind”

:)

Not trolling – honest question. I don’t get this…

For those that like the game,

I can appreciate that you like the game, and I have no issue with that. I can even appreciate that you want to come here and tell ArenaNet what you like about it, because that might encourage them to do more of the things you like.

But for those so vociferously defending the game and ArenaNet, I have to wonder, what are you getting out of such a vocal defense? A short disagreement I can see, but why spend so much effort trying to defend the game from those who want to tell ArenaNet what they don’t like about it? Are they paying you? Why would anyone spend so much effort defending some company’s product, if they weren’t getting paid for it?

Seriously. Not trolling. I do honestly wonder, and am happy to read what you have to say.

You could play gw1 24/7, farming FoW, UW, DoA, voltaic spears, froggies and own every armor, weapon and minipet in game. And that would not make you any stronger or weaker than any other player, casual or hardcore alike.
Here both credit card and time spent make you stronger. Even more so after last patch.

dalendria.3762:

youkai.2394:

The point is that the Gw2 community wants everything instant. Farm is boring, give us 1 legendary per player via mail!

Why is it that whenever anyone talks about how ridiculous the requirements are for obtaining max stat gear, someone says “we” want it instantly? That is an extreme statement without ever considering a middle ground.

I personally do not want anything instantly. I like many others enjoy goals. If gear is in a game, I assume it is useful. Yes, useful. Everyone always says that you don’t “need” Ascended. True. But this is not about needing it. It’s about using it.

If Ascended was not useful, then why even have it at all. Because it is “useful” in playing the game. period.

So yes, I want the most useful gear in the game. However, I do not want to have to spend months obtaining it. That is the issue. Many of us know how much we play and how often mats/weapons have dropped for us in the past. So we already know that it could be several months before we can craft our weapons for our mains.

Worse for those of us with alts. It could be 1/2 a year before we have completed crafting for all characters.

Is 3-6 months reasonable for obtaining max stat weapons? At launch, the answer would have been no. And that answer would have come from Arenanet because they had various ways to obtain Exotics and 2 weeks was the average time.

Ok, let’s put it this way.
Ascended weapons are an high level item that MUST be hard to obtain (because if it’s easy, 2 days and everyone has it, then why putting it?) of course if you want to gear every char with 6 weapons it will take a lot. I don’t see what’s wrong with that. High level gear, in any game, took time to get. If you have a lot of alts you have to put more effort in it.

You say “we know how much we play”. That’s true indeed, but if you know you play, for example, 2 hours a week you already know that gear all your char at maximum it’s going to take time. I just think this is totally normal. You have to think to ppl like me that can play even 10 hours a week: If I make an ascended in 2 days where’s the challange?

Lastly, you need 2 weeks if you gather all the maths yourself and if you don’t optimize your farm.
If you have some gold to spend (not more than 20g for example, which is basically the price of a skin) and you make sure to farm the right place (ex orr temples for dragonite ore), In 1 week you’ll have your weapon, or less.

I agree with you if you complain against the fact that they are putting stronger weapons hard to get, that is against what they said at start (well ascended is not really that much more powerful than exotic, but anyway…), but the time is right as it is.

I think you have understood wrong the term “challenge”. It’s not really about how much time you can spent.

Wethospu.6437:

I think you have understood wrong the term “challenge”. It’s not really about how much time you can spent.

Yeah well, just change the term to whatever fits better, but the fact remain the same.

More than that, in Gw2 there isn’t a really great challange at the moment….

youkai.2394:

Yeah well, just change the term to whatever fits better, but the fact remain the same.

More than that, in Gw2 there isn’t a really great challange at the moment….

Which is why adding more pure no-skill grind based statistics improvement makes sense right?

stof.9341:

youkai.2394:

Yeah well, just change the term to whatever fits better, but the fact remain the same.

More than that, in Gw2 there isn’t a really great challange at the moment….

Which is why adding more pure no-skill grind based statistics improvement makes sense right?

I never said I’m ok with ascended weapons, nor with the method to obtain them (if you read my post I also pointed it). I just said that the time is ok as it is.

Yeah ok, the word “challange” is wrong, I get it.

Crafting panels are new high end content.

Wethospu.6437:

Could someone explain how leveling crafting to 500 is not a grind?

Grind is a state of mind. If you are doing something you enjoy, it feels less like a grind, no?

Sure, if you focus solely on getting to 500, forsaking doing things that you enjoy in the game, it’s going to feel like a grind. It’s going to feel like a job you hate.

However, doing a little crafting here and there between breaks of doing things you actually enjoy, helps alleviate the feeling of grind.

Chuo.4238:

For those that like the game,

I can appreciate that you like the game, and I have no issue with that. I can even appreciate that you want to come here and tell ArenaNet what you like about it, because that might encourage them to do more of the things you like.

But for those so vociferously defending the game and ArenaNet, I have to wonder, what are you getting out of such a vocal defense? A short disagreement I can see, but why spend so much effort trying to defend the game from those who want to tell ArenaNet what they don’t like about it? Are they paying you? Why would anyone spend so much effort defending some company’s product, if they weren’t getting paid for it?

I wouldn’t say that it’s so much defending ANet as the two sides having a difference of opinion and neither side being able to see where the other is coming from, although there are a few who will defend ANet no matter what.

As with the Ascended gear; some people like having it as a goal they can work towards, while others detest it. The people who’ll slowly plod along can’t grasp why the others feel it’s bad, while the ones who don’t like it can’t see why others would enjoy it.

I’ll admit, I can’t understand the ones who say Ascended is absolutely needed in WvW. I do WvW with my level 36 Necro who is in all Greens. I also don’t join the zergs; rather, I run with a small band of friends who are also leveling their characters in WvW.

I see people discounting what people enjoy about the game just as much as I see people discounting others issues.

For example, I had a person tell me that my ‘end-game’ (mostly exploration and WvW) wasn’t truly end-game, completely neglecting my point of view that end-game will be dependent on the person.

Personally, I try to look at both the bad and good in things, and I’ll always concede when someone makes a good point. It’s the only way to have a reasonable discussion.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Wethospu.6437:

Could someone explain how leveling crafting to 500 is not a grind?

Grind is a state of mind. If you are doing something you enjoy, it feels less like a grind, no?

Sure, if you focus solely on getting to 500, forsaking doing things that you enjoy in the game, it’s going to feel like a grind. It’s going to feel like a job you hate.

So I have to visit a good shrink to enjoy this game.

It will propably take me 10 days or less to craft my staff playing 2-4 hours per day. I dont find that grindy at all, I will be doing world bosses, dungeons and crafting in order to get the staff and there are more ways to get the materials I need if I get tired of dungeons and bosses.

So far I have fun with the process when the lfg tool come out it will be even better.

Chuo.4238:

Not trolling – honest question. I don’t get this…

For those that like the game,

I can appreciate that you like the game, and I have no issue with that. I can even appreciate that you want to come here and tell ArenaNet what you like about it, because that might encourage them to do more of the things you like.

But for those so vociferously defending the game and ArenaNet, I have to wonder, what are you getting out of such a vocal defense? A short disagreement I can see, but why spend so much effort trying to defend the game from those who want to tell ArenaNet what they don’t like about it? Are they paying you? Why would anyone spend so much effort defending some company’s product, if they weren’t getting paid for it?

Seriously. Not trolling. I do honestly wonder, and am happy to read what you have to say.

I don’t really get the point of this. You obviously know they aren’t paying us, but what people on the forums are doing to ANet and mainly Colin Johanson is flat out wrong. What they did wasn’t wrong nor right, problem is neither side is looking at each opinions bigger picture. I personally think if we didn’t have some sort of gear grind GW2 will lose more players then if it ignored it and I stick by that. On the flip side I think it was implemented poorly and can see why people would detest that. But none of this means they should call out Colin Johanson for doing this job.

Wethospu.6437:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Wethospu.6437:

Could someone explain how leveling crafting to 500 is not a grind?

Grind is a state of mind. If you are doing something you enjoy, it feels less like a grind, no?

Sure, if you focus solely on getting to 500, forsaking doing things that you enjoy in the game, it’s going to feel like a grind. It’s going to feel like a job you hate.

So I have to visit a good shrink to enjoy this game.

Huh? Where did I say / imply that?

If there’s nothing you enjoy in the game, why play it?

It’s easy, here we have 2 ways to see MMO’s. The power way and the manifesto way of easy to obtain max stats.
You can’t really balance this, but arena.net is trying as hard as they can. In the end, since a lot of people bought the game as a way to escape from WOW to the paradise, arena.net will implement even more tiers of weapons and armor to obtain (I know they said no, but i’m pretty sure that some months after the last piece of ascended is released we will have a new awesomest new level).

It’s sort of the same thing that is happening with pve, wvw and spvp, in theory this 3 “games” are the same, they all get the same love, in practice, pve has bi-weekly updates (since it is the most played by far), wvw has some updates but not much, still the updates don’t make the game unplayable, and spvp, as an example, needed months for a random map generator (something that just picks a random map from the pool to play) and when it was released it had a huge bug in the loading screen of one map, so they took out the map and fixed it, funny thing is that still it doesn’t work and it favours one map like 50% of the times.

Too much innovation, too much modes (pve, wvw, spvp) to make it work properly.

Aside the gold grind
the mat that is giving me more troubles is dragonite….
dragon timer is not reliable any other site or suggestion to get 450 dragonite ore i miss ?

LordByron.8369:

Aside the gold grind
the mat that is giving me more troubles is dragonite….
dragon timer is not reliable any other site or suggestion to get 450 dragonite ore i miss ?

I think there’s an overlay that gives event timers. Can’t remember what it’s called though.

EDIT: Here’s the link

I dunno if it’s reliable or not though, since I don’t use timers.

TheDaiBish.9735:

If there’s nothing you enjoy in the game, why play it?

I enjoy everything except crafting and open world zerging. I need ascended gear for fractals. Doctor, I need your help.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Wethospu.6437:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Wethospu.6437:

Could someone explain how leveling crafting to 500 is not a grind?

Grind is a state of mind. If you are doing something you enjoy, it feels less like a grind, no?

Sure, if you focus solely on getting to 500, forsaking doing things that you enjoy in the game, it’s going to feel like a grind. It’s going to feel like a job you hate.

So I have to visit a good shrink to enjoy this game.

Huh? Where did I say / imply that?

If there’s nothing you enjoy in the game, why play it?

Ooh, you actually meant a mind trick. I don’t think I can afford a Jedi with my salary.

youkai.2394:

High level gear, in any game, took time to get.

That’s not how it’s supposed to be in a Guild Wars game. Guild Wars games are supposed to do things differently. That’s the entire point of their existence.

haviz.1340:

TheDaiBish.9735:

If there’s nothing you enjoy in the game, why play it?

I enjoy everything except crafting and open world zerging. I need ascended gear for fractals. Doctor, I need your help.

Unsure what you want me to do about it.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Unsure what you want me to do about it.

Then why do you even ask in the first place? Crafting BiS gear shouldn’t be the only method of acquisition.

haviz.1340:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Unsure what you want me to do about it.

Then why do you even ask in the first place? Crafting BiS gear shouldn’t be the only method of acquisition.

Well, for one, it wasn’t direct at anyone but the person I quoted. The fact that I quoted someone in particular should have shown that.

Secondly, the person I quoted said they needed a shrink to enjoy the game, somewhat implying they don’t enjoy anything, if you read what my view on what ‘grind’ is. Hence the question about why they play.

Lastly, I didn’t say anything about being able to help people with their woes of having to do something they don’t enjoy to get to things they do enjoy. Neither did I defend the method of acquisition of BiS gear.

Feel free to correct me if I’ve gotten something wrong.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Well, for one, it wasn’t direct at anyone but the person I quoted. The fact that I quoted someone in particular should have shown that.

Secondly, the person I quoted said they needed a shrink to enjoy the game, somewhat implying they don’t enjoy anything, if you read what my view on what ‘grind’ is. Hence the question about why they play.

Lastly, I didn’t say anything about being able to help people with their woes of having to do something they don’t enjoy to get to things they do enjoy. Neither did I defend the method of acquisition of BiS gear.

Feel free to correct me if I’ve gotten something wrong.

I should have added /s.

I guess he doesn’t know that we are like twin brothers. You never know which one you are talking to.

Anyways when I said “enjoy the game” I was talking about ascended weapons, just over-exaggerated a bit.

Wethospu.6437:

I guess he doesn’t know that we are like twin brothers. You never know which one you are talking to.

Why would I know that? o.O

And I’m pretty sure if I quote someone, that’s who I’m talking to

Wethospu.6437:

Anyways when I said “enjoy the game” I was talking about ascended weapons, just over-exaggerated a bit.

haviz.1340:

I should have added /s.

I’m not even going to try comprehend what you two are saying until I get some sleep, unless it’s TL:DR – Like the game, Hate Ascended.

I’ve just made this.
Any resemblance to real events and/or to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.
This is just how I think part of the community feels.

Erick Alastor.3917:

I’ve just made this.
Any resemblance to real events and/or to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.
This is just how I think part of the community feels.

haha I like it!

can you make videos?

Erick Alastor.3917:

I’ve just made this.
Any resemblance to real events and/or to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.
This is just how I think part of the community feels.

+9001

I think it’s cute that people think the GW1 model is sustainable and profitable. There’s a reason AN can’t follow it and expect to stay in business.

PrivateSoftcore.6291:

I think it’s cute that people think the GW1 model is sustainable and profitable. There’s a reason AN can’t follow it and expect to stay in business.

I think it’s cute that people condone the constant lack of originality in the video game creation market (outside of Indies).

“GW1 model cannot work today! Why? Nobody tried it and proved it worked, we got plenty of data that shows VP treadmill models work though.”

Right, let’s just spend decades polishing unoriginal copies. If we polish it enough, the shininess might attract some skritt.

@Erick Alastor

True masterpiece. I laughed so hard reading this. I guess the laughter is the only thing, that is left to us especially in the current serious situation. I feel the same way as Gw1 players from comic, even though I have not played it.

Right lets just follow the path instead of carving a new one, so much for ,, innovative,, and ,,revolutionary,, MMO.

stof.9341:

I think it’s cute that people condone the constant lack of originality in the video game creation market (outside of Indies).

“GW1 model cannot work today! Why? Nobody tried it and proved it worked, we got plenty of data that shows VP treadmill models work though.”

Right, let’s just spend decades polishing unoriginal copies. If we polish it enough, the shininess might attract some skritt.

Funny how people vote with their wallets, right? If people spend money on these games, it’s because they enjoy them. GW1 was out for more than enough time. GW2 has been out for more than enough time. People have voted with their wallets. This model does not work.

The minority who go against the mainstream models always pretend that their way is superior. It’s the same with COD haters. COD SUCKS MAN, THAT’S WHY IT SELLS SO MANY COPIES, RIGHT?

PrivateSoftcore.6291:

Funny how people vote with their wallets, right? If people spend money on these games, it’s because they enjoy them. GW1 was out for more than enough time. GW2 has been out for more than enough time. People have voted with their wallets. This model does not work.

The minority who go against the mainstream models always pretend that their way is superior. It’s the same with COD haters. COD SUCKS MAN, THAT’S WHY IT SELLS SO MANY COPIES, RIGHT?

Now now, you are getting a little ahead of you. Who said only one model can work? That’s the problem here. I have little doubt VP works. Horizontal Progression MMO would work too. It’s just that maybe it’d work at a smaller scale? Profitable doesn’t require you to get all the money, all the MMO players in the world. It only requires you to get more money than it costs you to operate.

stof.9341:

Now now, you are getting a little ahead of you. Who said only one model can work? That’s the problem here. I have little doubt VP works. Horizontal Progression MMO would work too. It’s just that maybe it’d work at a smaller scale? Profitable doesn’t require you to get all the money, all the MMO players in the world. It only requires you to get more money than it costs you to operate.

I’m not disagreeing with that. That’s why I play this game. I got tired of other models and this one seemed exciting (mostly the gameplay though, not necessarily the horizontal progression).

I just think this game goes too one extreme of the spectrum and would be better served to find its way more towards the center.

Think about AN’s business model for a second though – it actually hurts them to have players continue playing the game without buying gems. In a perfect world, they constantly turn over new players who buy the game, play it for a few months, then quit.

Of course it hurts them. But the amount of gem sale is only proportional to the value of the items they put for sale there.

Do you think that Ascended weapons contribute in one way or another to more gem sales? I don’t see how. There’s nothing in the gem store related to those weapons or how to craft them. Short of Black Lion Salvage Kits which I have 5-6 extras I don’t use for example.

On the other hand, people that want alts really need gems for more char and inventory slots. Yet ANet makes the game alt punishing. Is that for real? They need more transmutation stones than normal to change their looks than main only players. They need more cash shop skins to dress up.

Also, I’m pretty sure the middle ground pleases nobody. What will the VP crowd do at the end of the year? The ascended armor will be released, and judging by the track record of the weapons, people will have full sets 3 days after the patch. Then what? No more VP guys. Ah wait, where are you going! Here’s the transcendent armor! And the level cap upped to 100!

How does this thread have over 540 posts yet no replies from devs?

Joshua.9346:

How does this thread have over 540 posts yet no replies from devs?

Quite simply because they have already addressed the issue. The dev want us to play the game.

If they do they will find. The grind is not that bad. The timegate is not that bad. There are already many people who always have ascended weapons. Some may even have it on multiple characters by now as most of the time-gated stuff is per character per toon. Or you can bypass the timegate entirely.

Swagger.1459:

Erick Alastor.3917:

I’ve just made this.
Any resemblance to real events and/or to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.
This is just how I think part of the community feels.

haha I like it!

can you make videos?

I’m not able to make videos, sorry xD

Joshua.9346:

How does this thread have over 540 posts yet no replies from devs?

You’re talking about a dev team who puts the most sought after items behind…crafting, arguably one of the most boring, mundane parts of the game. I’m guessing they won’t respond…will be surprised if they do. After all, what are they going to say that wouldn’t be shooting themselves in the foot?

If they had just stuck to the script, and kept all stats at 80 the same and just have differences being what it looks like..they wouldn’t have this problem. The real question is…now that they have taken this road, how do they get off it? By creating a treadmill you entice treadmill enthusiasts/people who have time for treadmills to play, at the same time alienating people who hate/don’t have time for treadmills.

Making everyone happy is impossible..the only thing that is for certain is that catering to people who always want more (stats,power, etc) will directly cause the demand for more of that progression. My opinion…nip it in the bud before it blooms..go back to cosmetics and story. The people you are chasing after are just going to move on to the next fad anyway.

PrivateSoftcore.6291:

stof.9341:

I think it’s cute that people condone the constant lack of originality in the video game creation market (outside of Indies).

“GW1 model cannot work today! Why? Nobody tried it and proved it worked, we got plenty of data that shows VP treadmill models work though.”

Right, let’s just spend decades polishing unoriginal copies. If we polish it enough, the shininess might attract some skritt.

Funny how people vote with their wallets, right? If people spend money on these games, it’s because they enjoy them. GW1 was out for more than enough time. GW2 has been out for more than enough time. People have voted with their wallets. This model does not work.

The minority who go against the mainstream models always pretend that their way is superior. It’s the same with COD haters. COD SUCKS MAN, THAT’S WHY IT SELLS SO MANY COPIES, RIGHT?

All failed WoW clones and missing 5-6 million WoW players say hi to you.

All those failed WoW clones are F2P and WoW will switch at some point.

MikaHR.1978:

All failed WoW clones and missing 5-6 million WoW players say hi to you.

All those failed WoW clones are F2P and WoW will switch at some point.

Market is over saturated.

PrivateSoftcore.6291:

MikaHR.1978:

All failed WoW clones and missing 5-6 million WoW players say hi to you.

All those failed WoW clones are F2P and WoW will switch at some point.

Market is over saturated.

So ANet streamlining GW2 to that type of game is….smart?

I think one of the reason for Anet to allow crafting for ascended weapons is to balance the needs of everyone. If they were to lock the ascended weapon acquisition behind some hard/challenging content, then those whom dislike it will complain that they are forced to do it to acquire it.

Since crafting is avaliable to everyone and only require small amount of time per day except for the first leveling to 450 process, I think it’s a decent method to acquire it. Everyone have to spend around the same time to craft their ascended weapon. They also added a random low chance for people to get a ascended weapon from doing most activities in gw2.

The materials to craft ascended weapon are locked inside some content and most of them can be gotten from different avenues. Eg bloodstone dust from champion bags (champion bags are avaliable in pve and wvw) , empeyrial fragment from jp/dungeons etc. dragonite ore is the only material which I feel that there should be more avenues to acquire from. Now it’s only avaliable in world boss chest and a few keeps in wvw which I do not like that much. But I can do some world bosses whenever I feel like doing it as I’m not in a rush to get ascended weapon.

Sutcliffe.5491:

I think one of the reason for Anet to allow crafting for ascended weapons is to balance the needs of everyone. If they were to lock the ascended weapon acquisition behind some hard/challenging content, then those whom dislike it will complain that they are forced to do it to acquire it.

Since crafting is avaliable to everyone and only require small amount of time per day except for the first leveling to 450 process, I think it’s a decent method to acquire it. Everyone have to spend around the same time to craft their ascended weapon. They also added a random low chance for people to get a ascended weapon from doing most activities in gw2.

The materials to craft ascended weapon are locked inside some content and most of them can be gotten from different avenues. Eg bloodstone dust from champion bags (champion bags are avaliable in pve and wvw) , empeyrial fragment from jp/dungeons etc. dragonite ore is the only material which I feel that there should be more avenues to acquire from. Now it’s only avaliable in world boss chest and a few keeps in wvw which I do not like that much. But I can do some world bosses whenever I feel like doing it as I’m not in a rush to get ascended weapon.

I spent THREE hrs just before the reset and this is what I did (you can calculate the amount of mats needed for ascended and calculate the rate)

1) COF P1
2) Kill Ulgoth
3) Frozen Maw
4) Temple of Melandru
4) Lvl a warrior from lvl 2 to lvl 10 in terms of Personal Story lvl recommendations for BL key (20-25 min)
5) PVP Daily
6) Daily Activity
7) Gather Ori and Ancient Wood for 8 alts in Frostgorge (2 ori nodes 2 ancient wood on 2 seperate servers but are close together)
8) A bit of crafting
9) Charged Quartz and Quartz Mining
10) Joined in Claw of Jormag last stage with 30% health

Doesnt sound like a lot right? I didn’t take my time and rushed through all the above-mentioned. The time adds up. Fun? Not in the slightest. Grind? Yes a lot of it and I am crawling slowly towards the First Ascended weapon.

Really is a 2nd job now. Glad I never ever played WoW in all my years of playing video games.