Guild Wars 2

Hello every one, I wanted to share my opinion on some poor designs of this game.

I suppose I should edit in a summary page since I wrote so much…

1. gear/dps
2. skills
3. mechanics
4. content
5. controls
6. community

1. The most important part is the stat combinations, especially some thing like power/toughness/vitality while using no offensive talents and maybe even using a ranged weapon. In that scenario the person would be dealing bout 500-600 damage per hit. A berserker warrior with bunch of might stacks (greatsword crits generates might very fast so its expected) will do 35k (30-40k) hundred blades, then maybe whirlwind and swap to 4k hitting axe just for auto attacks. Now I know the idea of the game was that every one will have their own style of play, and some guardians want to be tanky and indeed with 0/15/30/20/5 build they can just stand still and take hits from any boss while healing for 2k every sec, and sentimentalist or warrior can burst heal a party up, and those players do bring loads of use. But when I see a warrior just standing at rage auto attacking and doing 0 damage… Its extreme scenarios like that were people do almost 10 times less damage that I think its bad game design. With recount people would realize the fact of how useless they can be if they aren’t healing, aren’t soaking or preventing damage but just providing team with their poor damage but you know, they don’t die at all, not to mention it would help people to learn effective rotations (even gw1 has a recount on a dummy to allow people to see what works). Every one wants a berserker warrior in their party, but its taboo to blame people for not being berserker, would be intruding on right to play the game like they want to play it, cause there is no correct way to play it right? There is only the way you enjoy the game. Call me elitist but I enjoy getting the most out of my ability, in mmo’s you could say not every one might realize best rotation, or be able to hit every global while being aware of whats happening, but knowledge of how to build your char? But its not the player to blame, guild wars 2 difficulty is based around one shots, it is hard to blame people when they go berserk thief with very little hp who might be skillful enough to dodge red circles that would one shot him, but dies to auto attacks that one shot him, he is forced to maybe pick up some vitality and have as much hp as warrior but then why not roll the warrior instead?
I could talk ages about the ALL STAT combination items, but I don’t think thats a problem in this game, no one is stupid enough to use those items or forced too (though if u get an ascended drop with all stats, too bad).

2. Lets talk skills! Arenanet had great concept on skills, you skills are situational, not just more damage but on cool down, but in fact, they do less damage then auto attack and often have no use, if your axe warrior your safe bet not to use any skills but auto attack, sure you miss out on giving your allies 4% damage buff but the skill will do so much less damage because of delay then auto attack that its less damage over all. Short bow ranger? – Instant dps loss if u use skills 2-5. I could mention so many skills that you could just play the game with out ever using them.

3. Lets go back to one shot mechanics, we all remember scavengers in AC, broken beyond belief, they would charge, then leap while instantly changing direction, some times even if you dodge it u will get stunned at range, if you have immortality skill like endure pain, it would brake the stun, instantly re-apply the stun if u would not instantly dodge afterwards, then u would take no damage for 4 seconds and still die after it ends. If you dodged the stun, you could still walk in to and it would take affect. Champion scavenger would kill u in a single tick. They have now replaced it with an ability I actually think is worse… But anyways, the difficulty of this game often is just hard hitting mobs that one shot you even if you play at your best, I don’t die too often, I mean, we all adapt, we know what to expect of this game, but when I know how it works I just think of so many ways of how much it could be improved, I mean neverwinter mobs had great red circles and did not one shot you. Oh yea, red circles, harpy fractal, the pyramid one, those harpies shoot balls that knock you back and if your in the middle of the platform you don’t even see the circle, mid-air kripple slows your speed? Maybe they expected us to do it while dodge jumping.

4. Content, every 2 weeks we get some awesome content, yay! That cutthroat politics or what ever its called was awesome, the entire game play content was personal story mission and 2 minigames… I mean, I played mmo’s before, I remember being excited over content patches, but most of gw2 ones are few minigames and maybe a jumping puzzle… Don’t get me wrong, I love jumping puzzles, the Halloween tower thing, I’ve completed that over 30 times and it did not get boring, and this super adventure box, figuring out what kills you in that hard mode was worth the hours, fun. But, besides the adventure box, besides the jumping puzzles is mostly just some horrible mini games and some lame story.

5. The responsiveness and controls, lets talk that, I often do some thing and I am not sure of the outcome, if I dodge before third auto attack I might dodge on spot, if i hit a skill and swap weapons while using ability I could get animation stuck, if I leap I can hit invisible wall or bounce back from a wall. Even the jump, the jump is horrible, its way too animated instead of being commitment based were you jump – always same outcome. I do jumping puzzles a lot, love them mastered the dodge jump, and got very use to the jump that it doesn’t bother me, but I am just aware that its poorly made, most people won’t notice it though so I will just get flamed for saying this. But the list of how bad controls are still go on, for example, if your a warrior ( I mentioned warrior a lot, I am actually main guardian, though I also got max lv warrior, ranged, thief) try doing hundred blades and then dodging afterwards, and I am pretty sure when you used f1 skill on axe, you knew you are gonna die because you won’t be able to cancel the animation and boss is already charging some thing strong. There should really be a way you could animation cancel apart from weapon swap.

6. Lets talk last thing, the community, I don’t mean to insult the average player, but over all our look at this game is pretty bad. Like I mentioned, too many people are defending bad players because “its ok to have fun and not be elitist”, I suppose gw2 is a casual game at that regard but just don’t go with it, try and play more risky to get better experience, it will be more fun. Then the defending, we have to really point out the wrongs about the game so they will get fixed. I see a hole bunch of comments on arenanet facebook/youtube/forums that just point out flaws and they ether get flamed by fanboys same as I bet this post will get, or gets deleted. When anet first releases a new video or puts some thing on facebook u can see hole bunch of harsh things being put, but lather its not there, its all nice comments, even the constructive criticism seems to get removed. And people who point out flaws often get told to go play wow.

I could still talk about so many things like talents, condition damage (free tip for ya condition damage warriors, if your berserk then your bow f1 will do FAR more damage then any condition spec would have with burn damage), the existence of pointless classes (rangers), reward system, crafting, economy, crafting, content progression, IN COMBAT MOVEMENT and a lot more, but thats enough for now little ones.

Now I know you are all angry at me, but these are flaws that need to be constantly pointed out so that the game would get some massive rework, you are now free to insult me, I promise to read all the offensive comments even though I easily bruise.
Btw, I don’t plan to pre-read this so sorry for any spelling mistakes.

I read the first two paragraphs and noticed that this doesn’t even take into account anything that’s not lolpve dps

Just a warning: most people don’t have long attention spans, (including me), so I highly suggest you have a tl:dr at the bottom or somewhere so people can leave opinions

Wolfheart.1938:

I read the first two paragraphs and noticed that this doesn’t even take into account anything that’s not lolpve dps

I also covered controls and responsiveness, content, how they present difficulty and most importantly at the end – you, the player.
However the part you read tries to illustrate that arena net allows players to do some rly stupid things. I will use world of warcraft as an example here and people hate it, but this is a good example. In wow you won’t get in to a good raiding guild if your stats are incorrect, and that means things like haste softcap, prioritizing correct stat on gear selection, maybe you class needs 700 crit and above 800 would be a waste. If it would do things like gw2, it would be ok for dps to stack a hole bunch of stamina so they would survive longer. I’ve mentioned that in gw2 some dps do almost 10 times less, and thats not over exaduration when my warriors auto attacks with axe can be like 4k were some one hits 600 with a slow weapon.

SeNoZinD.9874:

Just a warning: most people don’t have long attention spans, (including me), so I highly suggest you have a tl:dr at the bottom or somewhere so people can leave opinions

I was going to read through it my self, to correct spelling, but then I saw how much I wrote so I figured I’ll pass… I’m pretty sure majority of players will just read a few lines and start defending gw2. I’m really looking forwards to some constructive responsive telling me why I’m wrong or some opinions that would say what else is wrong with the game.

Just using the word “horrible” at the top will make this thread useless. There are ways to say stuff that’s not antagonistic, and in stating it the way you did, you’re going to get a negative response. It doesn’t even matter if you’re right or wrong (and frankly I think some of what you say is right…but I don’t agree with all of it).

What I do believe is that if you’re going to phrase stuff the way you do, most people won’t take you seriously.

After all, why should someone believe your opinion of game design over professionals?

Ventrue.5731:

Wolfheart.1938:

I read the first two paragraphs and noticed that this doesn’t even take into account anything that’s not lolpve dps

I also covered controls and responsiveness, content, how they present difficulty and most importantly at the end – you, the player.
However the part you read tries to illustrate that arena net allows players to do some rly stupid things. I will use world of warcraft as an example here and people hate it, but this is a good example. In wow you won’t get in to a good raiding guild if your stats are incorrect, and that means things like haste softcap, prioritizing correct stat on gear selection, maybe you class needs 700 crit and above 800 would be a waste. If it would do things like gw2, it would be ok for dps to stack a hole bunch of stamina so they would survive longer. I’ve mentioned that in gw2 some dps do almost 10 times less, and thats not over exaduration when my warriors auto attacks with axe can be like 4k were some one hits 600 with a slow weapon.

SeNoZinD.9874:

Just a warning: most people don’t have long attention spans, (including me), so I highly suggest you have a tl:dr at the bottom or somewhere so people can leave opinions

I was going to read through it my self, to correct spelling, but then I saw how much I wrote so I figured I’ll pass… I’m pretty sure majority of players will just read a few lines and start defending gw2. I’m really looking forwards to some constructive responsive telling me why I’m wrong or some opinions that would say what else is wrong with the game.

LOL. You wrote so much that you passed on proofreading it, yet you expect anyone else to read it?

It was too difficult to read. I gave up after the 300-word long sentence. Sorry.

Cactus.2710:

LOL. You wrote so much that you passed on proofreading it, yet you expect anyone else to read it?

I read the whole thing, I wish I could go back and save myself those three minutes. Same ole stupid rant: Casuals are bads, Everything in the game sucks, Why isn’t it WoW?

Go away.

Jack of Tears.9458:

I read the whole thing, I wish I could go back and save myself those three minutes. Same ole stupid rant: Casuals are bads, Everything in the game sucks, Why isn’t it WoW?
Go away.

Thank you for saving my time, jack.

Too many big blocks of text do not appeal to me. Does that make me lazy? Sure does!
Italic and bold are your friends, use them!

As for the content I didn’t read, I’m going to go with I somewhat agree but often don’t. I’m sure that’s vague enough.

Ventrue.5731:

. I’m pretty sure majority of players will just read a few lines and start defending gw2.

To arms my brothers and sisters!

Ventrue.5731:

I was going to read through it my self, to correct spelling, but then I saw how much I wrote so I figured I’ll pass… I’m pretty sure majority of players will just read a few lines and start defending gw2.

I didn’t defend Guild Wars 2, you might note. I simply commented on your use of language to try to create a sensationalist topic. The way you phrased things was antagonistic.

I specifically didn’t defend Guild Wars 2, because the validity of the complain when phrased like this has to be called into doubt.

“What you just wrote is one of the most insanely idiotic things I’ve ever read. At no point in your rambling incoherent wall of text, were you close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul” -

I liked the bit where u can get into a good raiding guild in wow only if you have good stats….completely the opposite philosophy players bought into gw2 for. Also you say ppl will jump in this thread defending gw2. Well yes…you are on a gw2 forum butchering it…
Basically psychology will show if you put out a one sided flame you will get one sided defence. And vica versa. What little i could read in your post wasnt constructive for the devs or the community

Learn to write interesting and well arranged text and people will read your walls.

This is a common themepark game with good(excelent) artwork, you cant expect much from NCSOFT/Anet since their engine is nothing new in the market and its full of bad choices.

Stopped reading at “talents”. Everything was clear right there.

OP, next time, use bullet types or even a hyphen to “summarize” and “group” your thoughts.

Not a single point I made was even argued, I sort of assume people can’t argue with what is correct so they get bum hurt about it and retort with being upset about their game being bad. Seriously, there were few people who read it, but can any one have an argument that is valid? Mention a single thing I’ve told that is not correct about this game and then insult me.
Well I guess its too much, I would be upset too if people would point out faults of my game and I could not come up with a rational argument.

Well you can take that approach or you could have edited your original post to make it more appealing and make everyone eat their words.

But if you want to act, as you put it, bum hurt, by all means.

Can’t argue with what you can’t read. Jus’ sayin’.

Ventrue.5731:

I could talk ages about the ALL STAT combination items, but I don’t think thats a problem in this game, no one is stupid enough to use those items or forced too (though if u get an ascended drop with all stats, too bad).

So I’m stupid then … not only that, but I was happy to get my celestial ring as a drop. Saved me 10 daily runs. Guess I could report you for calling me stupid.

Lets talk last thing, the community, I don’t mean to insult the average player, but over all our look at this game is pretty bad. Like I mentioned, too many people are defending bad players because “its ok to have fun and not be elitist”, I suppose gw2 is a casual game at that regard but just don’t go with it, try and play more risky to get better experience, it will be more fun.

Sorry mate but I work my kitten of for 10 hours a day. When I get home and boot GW2, I want to relax. I gear up celestial because I can do that relatively braindead (cause my job requires a lot of thinking) and still do reasonable damage.

That’s my idea of fun. Not putting in any effort and stay within easy zones such as Queensdale and particular bosses (Maw, Fire Elemental, Shatterer, certain dungeons). Your idea of fun might differ, but don’t judge me for relaxing after work. I don’t judge you for risky play either. I have respect for people who manage to do fotm48 and SAB tribulation mode but I also demand respect for having a job and contributing to society. Thank you very much.

Ventrue.5731:

I will use world of warcraft as an example here and people hate it, but this is a good example. In wow you won’t get in to a good raiding guild if your stats are incorrect, and that means things like haste softcap, prioritizing correct stat on gear selection, maybe you class needs 700 crit and above 800 would be a waste. If it would do things like gw2, it would be ok for dps to stack a hole bunch of stamina so they would survive longer. I’ve mentioned that in gw2 some dps do almost 10 times less, and thats not over exaduration when my warriors auto attacks with axe can be like 4k were some one hits 600 with a slow weapon.

I am simply not interested in that nonsense. Celestial allows me to not do calculations. I’m doing plenty of those during the day. Come on … if you spend your day fixing complicated stuff from customers, calculating integrals and 3D models by hand to find the error … do you have any idea how tired your brain becomes by doing tgat … do you really expect me to waste even more of that energy and intelligence on a videogame? Isn’t that a bit far fetched.

I do not want to be in a raiding guild. I do not want to play WoW. Maybe, just maybe, that’s exactly why I play GW2 … in celestial gear.

That’s not to say I don’t like more difficult games in my free time, but that’s more in the realms of chess and triathlon. Those demand far greater concentration and endurance than ever necessary in WoW or GW2. So again, why would I waste that energy when there’s superior ways to stimulate my brain. To me, videogames are just that … videogames.

Ventrue.5731:

I was going to read through it my self, to correct spelling, but then I saw how much I wrote so I figured I’ll pass… I’m pretty sure majority of players will just read a few lines and start defending gw2. I’m really looking forwards to some constructive responsive telling me why I’m wrong or some opinions that would say what else is wrong with the game.

Um…if you can’t even be bother to read your own post….why would you expect anyone else to?

Jack of Tears.9458:

Cactus.2710:

LOL. You wrote so much that you passed on proofreading it, yet you expect anyone else to read it?

I read the whole thing, I wish I could go back and save myself those three minutes. Same ole stupid rant: Casuals are bads, Everything in the game sucks, Why isn’t it WoW?

Go away.

Can we make this post a question post, and have this be the answer please?

marnick.4305:

Ventrue.5731:

I could talk ages about the ALL STAT combination items, but I don’t think thats a problem in this game, no one is stupid enough to use those items or forced too (though if u get an ascended drop with all stats, too bad).

So I’m stupid then … not only that, but I was happy to get my celestial ring as a drop. Saved me 10 daily runs. Guess I could report you for calling me stupid.

Lets talk last thing, the community, I don’t mean to insult the average player, but over all our look at this game is pretty bad. Like I mentioned, too many people are defending bad players because “its ok to have fun and not be elitist”, I suppose gw2 is a casual game at that regard but just don’t go with it, try and play more risky to get better experience, it will be more fun.

Sorry mate but I work my kitten of for 10 hours a day. When I get home and boot GW2, I want to relax. I gear up celestial because I can do that relatively braindead (cause my job requires a lot of thinking) and still do reasonable damage.

That’s my idea of fun. Not putting in any effort and stay within easy zones such as Queensdale and particular bosses (Maw, Fire Elemental, Shatterer, certain dungeons). Your idea of fun might differ, but don’t judge me for relaxing after work. I don’t judge you for risky play either. I have respect for people who manage to do fotm48 and SAB tribulation mode but I also demand respect for having a job and contributing to society. Thank you very much.

No one is judging that sort of activity. Your a casual player who doesn’t do any content were people have to depend on your performance to succeed, so you don’t hurt any one. The first paragraph of my post mostly talks about how 1 person in a group does 4k dps while another 600, if your not in a group then your not part of the problem anyways. And I did say that a stupid person would PICK celestial, there are as I mention people who are forced to use it since they got it as a drop. The bottom line is that you are just giving up a hole bunch of useful stats for stats that give you almost 0 benefit.

I see you’ve taken the hint so I’ve bothered reading your rant. What I make out of it is that you are frustrated in the game for many reasons that are perfectly valid for you.

The trap you fall into however, is effectively starting to blame the game and other players for it’s casual nature. The message I get, in a very generalised manner, is “it’s not hard enough”, “when it is hard it’s in a cheap way” and “there are too little hardcore players”.

I’m sorry to say that in most cases there simply is no need to go full berserker to make it through the content. The fact that I for example decide to roll Soldier gear on my Guardian in AC, while running a blinding blade build, makes little to no difference to the total time we spend in there. As a matter of fact, full berserker PUG’s are usually the first to fail, because each individual is weaker if the group as a whole doesn’t work together.

So in answer to your taboo I’ll state that full berserker will only out perform ‘balanced’ stats if the entire team works on the same level and is organised.

Furthermore, I agree with Marnick that at the end of the day, just as you do, I will play this game the way I want it to. There are no rules that state otherwise.

Finally, I’m at the least angry at you. I would say that your posts as a whole come off as angry themselves. If you are so frustrated because of this game, I suggest you take a break from it. In the long run that would be better for your health.

Ventrue.5731:

marnick.4305:

.. snip…

No one is judging that sort of activity. Your a casual player who doesn’t do any content were people have to depend on your performance to succeed, so you don’t hurt any one. The first paragraph of my post mostly talks about how 1 person in a group does 4k dps while another 600, if your not in a group then your not part of the problem anyways. And I did say that a stupid person would PICK celestial, there are as I mention people who are forced to use it since they got it as a drop. The bottom line is that you are just giving up a hole bunch of useful stats for stats that give you almost 0 benefit.

I never, ever, join speedrun, gearcheck or zerk only groups. That leaves the relaxed pugs that have the same objective as me … to have a fun and enjoyable experience. I don’t force anyone to play optimally and they don’t usually force me. Heck … most of the time I’m not even using consumables. If my party members have a problem with that, they should say so and we can work it out. Usually they don’t.

As for celestial stats … I’m an engi so all stats do at least something. I’m rather happy with the vit and toughness because I’m not the floor all the time. It’s funny to see zerk warriors dead from shots that hardly tickle my toon. A dead zerker does no dps at all and in fun/non-speedrun groups they tend to be a liability.

But frankly what are you trying to say? People with sub optimal stats don’t usually try to join speedrun groups and you shouldn’t join fun groups because they annoy you. Seems counter-intuitive. I don’t want to play with you, you don’t want to play with me. Your entire post is based on the assumption that you and me somehow want to play together. That’s not true and therefor your entire argument falls apart.

marnick.4305:

I am simply not interested in that nonsense. Celestial allows me to not do calculations. I’m doing plenty of those during the day. Come on … if you spend your day fixing complicated stuff from customers, calculating integrals and 3D models by hand to find the error … do you have any idea how tired your brain becomes by doing tgat … do you really expect me to waste even more of that energy and intelligence on a videogame? Isn’t that a bit far fetched.

I do not want to be in a raiding guild. I do not want to play WoW. Maybe, just maybe, that’s exactly why I play GW2 … in celestial gear.

That’s not to say I don’t like more difficult games in my free time, but that’s more in the realms of chess and triathlon. Those demand far greater concentration and endurance than ever necessary in WoW or GW2. So again, why would I waste that energy when there’s superior ways to stimulate my brain. To me, videogames are just that … videogames.

Ok, what you said before was sort of understandable, but now you say some thing like that? Oh wow, thats just amazing. Let me get this straight.

I assume you see how a warrior can benefit from stats like power, precision, critical damage as well as the fact they are multipliers. Precision increases the effectiveness of power by 150%, adding crit damage lets you further multiply you power damage, then you can also add about 30% damage from talents that say do 10% damage while —-. This isn’t even hard to comprehend, with celestial you get over all more stats but those same stats are less valuable. 3 × 3 × 3 = 27 but 2 × 2 × 2 x 2 =16, even though you have more stats they interact at lesser capacity. Not to mention, that healing or condition damage might be a 100% pointless stat for you.

What amazes me the most is that you think that this is heavy calculations and not common sense, the fact that you would need to dwell in to spending bunch of time researching it and that would not be fun. The reason people take power/toughness/vitality was my biggest issue because its a turtle build, but it still is correct in that regard, with toughness your affective health is much larger.

You also talked lather about dead zerkers doing less damage. As engineer you mostly ranged, by default you should have more leisure to go squishier to do more damage. And a berserk warrior who dies but hits 35k with hundred blades would still be more use then some one who goes tanky and uses range. But the most important part is that he gets to learn how to survive a lot easier, he’s mistakes cost him so he gets to improved. Don’t play games easy mode, put it on hard mode and you will do better.
My argument does work on the part that I have to play with people like you. I have not done higher level fractals because all my friends have quit the game so I am forced to pug, I have had runs with 3 berserker warriors and those last least 3 times as less on average, but then you get those really tanky teams were they don’t do enough damage to make it quick, but obviously bosses still one shot them so it doesn’t help them being tanky.

You first made good valid arguments, but with this you just lacked common sense.

Ventrue.5731:

No one is judging that sort of activity. Your a casual player who doesn’t do any content were people have to depend on your performance to succeed, so you don’t hurt any one. The first paragraph of my post mostly talks about how 1 person in a group does 4k dps while another 600, if your not in a group then your not part of the problem anyways. And I did say that a stupid person would PICK celestial, there are as I mention people who are forced to use it since they got it as a drop. The bottom line is that you are just giving up a hole bunch of useful stats for stats that give you almost 0 benefit.

You are, actually, judging him and a whole lot of other players, because you are apparently suggesting that being “in a group” in GW2 is equivalent to being in a fairly serious raiding guild in WoW, which is obviously nonsense. If that’s not what you mean, you need to be more clear, because you are failing to express yourself.

Also, your Zerker vs Celestial example is terrible. The same player, using the same weapons, with the same traits, utilities, and using gear of the same tier, will not be THAT far behind Zerker. We’re probably talking say, 4k DPS vs 2.5k DPS, not the 4k DPS vs 0.6k DPS you seem to be thinking is happening.

In the end, GW2 isn’t WoW, and that’s a good thing, because if you want to play WoW, not only is there WoW, there are literally dozens of imitators, almost all of whom offer the style of railroaded gearing you suggest.

In general the problem with GW2 is that PvE is too Zerker-friendly, rather than it fails to railroad players into Zerker. If they are going to fix something, they should fix the former, not the institute way to do the latter.

What’s a talent? Is that like being able to play a recognizable tune on the instruments they sell in the Gem Store?

Ventrue.5731:

Ok, what you said before was sort of understandable, but now you say some thing like that? Oh wow, thats just amazing. Let me get this straight.

I assume you see how a warrior can benefit from stats like power, precision, critical damage as well as the fact they are multipliers. Precision increases the effectiveness of power by 150%, adding crit damage lets you further multiply you power damage, then you can also add about 30% damage from talents that say do 10% damage while —-. This isn’t even hard to comprehend, with celestial you get over all more stats but those same stats are less valuable. 3 × 3 × 3 = 27 but 2 × 2 × 2 x 2 =16, even though you have more stats they interact at lesser capacity. Not to mention, that healing or condition damage might be a 100% pointless stat for you.

1/ you assume I’m even remotely interested in the exact workings of the stats. Common sense in videogames says: more is better. Celestial has the most stats, I don’t care further. I simply don’t.
2/ you assume I’m interested in warriors. To be frank, it’s the only profession I didn’t roll yet. Don’t even know whether I’ll ever make one. So all those calculations and ideas about 100b … sorry falls on deaf ears.
3/ Healing, condition damage are useful stats to my character, and in the vein of more is better, celestial at the very least isn’t a bad set. It doesn’t excel but again, that’s not my point in videogames.

I’m not trying to belittle your playstyle, please let me get that straight. But your original post belittles my playstyle. You explicitly called me stupid. I’m only trying to tell you people have different goals and you shouldn’t call people stupid for wanting different things.

PS: Maybe my argument isn’t too coherent but neither is yours.

Eurhetemec.9052:

Ventrue.5731:

No one is judging that sort of activity. Your a casual player who doesn’t do any content were people have to depend on your performance to succeed, so you don’t hurt any one. The first paragraph of my post mostly talks about how 1 person in a group does 4k dps while another 600, if your not in a group then your not part of the problem anyways. And I did say that a stupid person would PICK celestial, there are as I mention people who are forced to use it since they got it as a drop. The bottom line is that you are just giving up a hole bunch of useful stats for stats that give you almost 0 benefit.

You are, actually, judging him and a whole lot of other players, because you are apparently suggesting that being “in a group” in GW2 is equivalent to being in a fairly serious raiding guild in WoW, which is obviously nonsense. If that’s not what you mean, you need to be more clear, because you are failing to express yourself.

Also, your Zerker vs Celestial example is terrible. The same player, using the same weapons, with the same traits, utilities, and using gear of the same tier, will not be THAT far behind Zerker. We’re probably talking say, 4k DPS vs 2.5k DPS, not the 4k DPS vs 0.6k DPS you seem to be thinking is happening.

In the end, GW2 isn’t WoW, and that’s a good thing, because if you want to play WoW, not only is there WoW, there are literally dozens of imitators, almost all of whom offer the style of railroaded gearing you suggest.

In general the problem with GW2 is that PvE is too Zerker-friendly, rather than it fails to railroad players into Zerker. If they are going to fix something, they should fix the former, not the institute way to do the latter.

I am not judging people who are forced to go celestial because of drops, I am indeed judging all those who take useless stats. The ones who take power/thougness/vit I ain’t judging ether, I just am upset that the game forces them do play like that. As far as 4k dps vs 0.6, I did not say thats on celestial. Take off offensive talents and go hit a dummy in lions arch, it will be damage based only on your power from gear, you will hit around 600 with auto attacks, put on berserker gear and offensive talents and you will hit 4k’s on mobs that can be crit (btw, I get 100% crit chance so I sort of did not worry about the fact that its a chance at 4k).

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

What’s a talent? Is that like being able to play a recognizable tune on the instruments they sell in the Gem Store?

It’s an ancient roman coin made from about 30kg of pure gold.

Ventrue.5731:

I am not judging people who are forced to go celestial because of drops, I am indeed judging all those who take useless stats. The ones who take power/thougness/vit I ain’t judging ether, I just am upset that the game forces them do play like that. As far as 4k dps vs 0.6, I did not say thats on celestial. Take off offensive talents and go hit a dummy in lions arch, it will be damage based only on your power from gear, you will hit around 600 with auto attacks, put on berserker gear and offensive talents and you will hit 4k’s on mobs that can be crit (btw, I get 100% crit chance so I sort of did not worry about the fact that its a chance at 4k).

Continuing with the judging…

Can I give you a few tips since your zerk friends stopped playing …

Get in a speedrun guild. There’s plenty. No need to play with me. We’ll both be happier for it.

‘I am not judging people who are forced to go celestial because of drops’

I do have a question. When did the game start forcing people to use drops as gear. I was under the impression that you could use any gear you wanted. If we must use gear that drops, how is it some people have berzerker gear? I haven’t had a full set drop for me. Not that I would be interested in one.

Marnick, common sense in video games is “the set up does not matter, what matters is interaction”. Allow me to just talk about my play style a bit just so you would see how I play. I am a guardian, the first week of release I came up with a build I still use.

I got 30 points in a talent tree that said applying boons heals you. I added 15 in a another that allows my F1 to reset on kills and blind mobs in aoe. 5 in another so that same f1 would apply around 12 boons every time I press it. The outcome is that every time 1 mob dies I heal for around 2k and prevent next attack of mobs. I supplemented it by using weapons that apply boons, the little circles on the grounds guardians place. You can invest remaining 20 points in talents to allow those circles to heal as a their own source. Now I can place a symbol with my mace and it will have 3 healing sources, their own, boons = heals, and the healing boon it gives. Best use is using a hammer who places them on auto attack as well as providing best boon you got, 30% damage reduction 100% of the time.

My post argued the interaction of stats, less power less use from crit, less crit less use from crit damage, less toughness = less use from healing/vit, even condition damage interacts well with precision. Some games have soft caps and that becomes really hard to work around and its no sin to not be aware of it. But in gw2 scenario they made it very simplistic.

What is this thread? Is this a Gw2 should like WoW, or Celestial Gear sucks thread? I am confused. Naturally I didn’t read the OP.

If it’s the latter: I also use Celestial gear. With all stat ascended accessories. Beat Liadri, done 8 orb achievment too, I win 90% of the fights in WvW.

Sup?

I think it might be a ‘You don’t play like I do, so you suck’ thread. If I’m understanding it. I keep skimming over all the stat calculations and stuff because they hold absolutely no interest for me. If it’s pretty, I wear it! =P

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

‘I am not judging people who are forced to go celestial because of drops’

I do have a question. When did the game start forcing people to use drops as gear. I was under the impression that you could use any gear you wanted. If we must use gear that drops, how is it some people have berzerker gear? I haven’t had a full set drop for me. Not that I would be interested in one.

Well, I am obviously talking ascended peaces. You wanna use them because of infusion to reduce agony damage. For a while I had a ring that was power/precision/crit/vitality. That vitality bonus did little for me but the ring gave me 10 agony resistance. Now they introduced ascended weapons as drops, the stat increase is minimalistic and you won’t use it for the skin probably, but it will get you 5/10 more ar. Do you remember that karka shell backpeace? Power/condition damage/healing I think, back then not every one could afford ar back peace, so they used it in fractals.

Ventrue.5731:

Like I mentioned, too many people are defending bad players because “its ok to have fun and not be elitist”, I suppose gw2 is a casual game at that regard but just don’t go with it, try and play more risky to get better experience, it will be more fun.

Your rant sure demonstrates that you’re having a lot of fun.

Yes, GW2 has flaws. But the bigger ones have very little to do with what you write.

Don’t write while you’re upset.

1) Gear and dps. Perhaps you like to get every last ounce of power out of your builds, and that’s fine; however, not everyone plays that way. Some people lack the timing needed to dodge (unless the skill has a massive windup), some people don’t care if they aren’t getting all of the potential dps they could. Some people don’t give a rat’s kitten about the math. So they use other stats. Some people only play alone out in the open world and prefer condition spiking. It’s their right to choose. That’s the beauty of the game. We can opt to faceroll through with straight dps, or we can play condition, or we can team up with someone and run more towards support, while the other person does the majority of the damage. There is no cut and dry “you must run this.” Honestly, if you are bothered by the fact that someone else chooses to use a different gear, then don’t play with them, that’s your choice. Create or join a guild of all zerkers, and only play with them, then you are with like minded individuals. Let the rest of us do our own thing when it comes to gear and builds. As long as we aren’t interfering with your play, you shouldn’t have anything to complain about.

2) Skills….. again with feeling the need to always do max damage, and just facerolling through the game. I’m glad that’s fun for you, but its not for everyone else necessarily. I do admit that some skills need some tweaking, some adjustments. Nothing is ever perfect when it comes to balancing skills. I honestly doubt that its truly possible to ever complete balance a game’s skills, but that’s beside the point. Where was I, oh yes, sure you take a dps hit for some weapons if you use the other skills, but generally the additional perks from those other skills are useful. Short bow for example, skill 4 cripples. If you need to kite them, slowing them down is helpful. Skill 5 is a stun, which is great if you need a moment for a breather, or if you’re saving someone else’s kitten. Skill 3 allows me to put some space between me and my foe is he gets in too close, allowing me to get out of harms way, which is handy if I’ve exhausted my dodges for the time being. This skill has saved me on a couple of occasions where I’d simply over aggroed and didn’t have enough dodges to avoid all the hard blows. Does it knock down my overall dps a bit, sure. Handy, in the right situations, yeah. It’s not all about dps for everyone. Anyone can dps to their hearts content, anyone can learn a rotation and then follow it like a brain dead hamster. Not everyone can utilize additional functionality to keep their sorry butts (or someone elses’) alive when the situation arises.

Yes, you can argue (validly) that if you kill them fast enough, you don’t have to worry about getting hit, or whatever. However, this goes back to, its not all about facerolling through the content for everyone. For some people, killing the foe in 2 hits just is not fun. They desire more to their combat than just letting the auto attack go while they watch tv.

I’m not FORCED to use any equipment.
I like to use Celestial as it makes my Engineer a “Jack of All Trades”.
I use Power, Toughness, Vitality, Conditions, Crit, etc etc in equal measures.

Do not presume to think everyone wants to play the way you do.
And don’t judge us for playing the way we want to.

It’s the WoW-centric Elitists that are busy making this game less fun.
“We want to farm!”
“We want to grind!”
“We want to min/max and theorycraft the snot out of everything!”

If you want to play a WoW-type game go play WoW.

And PS: This is an aggressive post because I’m sick and tired of forum topics containing “GW2 SUCKS” or “This game is stupid”.

tl;dr
If you want to play a game like WoW, go play WoW and leave us to our casual game.

Ventrue.5731:

marnick.4305:

I am simply not interested in that nonsense. Celestial allows me to not do calculations. I’m doing plenty of those during the day. Come on … if you spend your day fixing complicated stuff from customers, calculating integrals and 3D models by hand to find the error … do you have any idea how tired your brain becomes by doing tgat … do you really expect me to waste even more of that energy and intelligence on a videogame? Isn’t that a bit far fetched.

I do not want to be in a raiding guild. I do not want to play WoW. Maybe, just maybe, that’s exactly why I play GW2 … in celestial gear.

That’s not to say I don’t like more difficult games in my free time, but that’s more in the realms of chess and triathlon. Those demand far greater concentration and endurance than ever necessary in WoW or GW2. So again, why would I waste that energy when there’s superior ways to stimulate my brain. To me, videogames are just that … videogames.

Ok, what you said before was sort of understandable, but now you say some thing like that? Oh wow, thats just amazing. Let me get this straight.

I assume you see how a warrior can benefit from stats like power, precision, critical damage as well as the fact they are multipliers. Precision increases the effectiveness of power by 150%, adding crit damage lets you further multiply you power damage, then you can also add about 30% damage from talents that say do 10% damage while —-. This isn’t even hard to comprehend, with celestial you get over all more stats but those same stats are less valuable. 3 × 3 × 3 = 27 but 2 × 2 × 2 x 2 =16, even though you have more stats they interact at lesser capacity. Not to mention, that healing or condition damage might be a 100% pointless stat for you.

What amazes me the most is that you think that this is heavy calculations and not common sense, the fact that you would need to dwell in to spending bunch of time researching it and that would not be fun. The reason people take power/toughness/vitality was my biggest issue because its a turtle build, but it still is correct in that regard, with toughness your affective health is much larger.

You also talked lather about dead zerkers doing less damage. As engineer you mostly ranged, by default you should have more leisure to go squishier to do more damage. And a berserk warrior who dies but hits 35k with hundred blades would still be more use then some one who goes tanky and uses range. But the most important part is that he gets to learn how to survive a lot easier, he’s mistakes cost him so he gets to improved. Don’t play games easy mode, put it on hard mode and you will do better.
My argument does work on the part that I have to play with people like you. I have not done higher level fractals because all my friends have quit the game so I am forced to pug, I have had runs with 3 berserker warriors and those last least 3 times as less on average, but then you get those really tanky teams were they don’t do enough damage to make it quick, but obviously bosses still one shot them so it doesn’t help them being tanky.

You first made good valid arguments, but with this you just lacked common sense.

I think you’re missed a point here.

YOU play for efficiency. That’s your game. That’s what YOU care about. But other people play games for other reason.

For example, I don’t care about efficiency at all. Not even a little. I want to clear content, but I don’t care how long it takes me to clear it. I don’t care if a dungeon that takes you five minutes takes me an hour. I’m having fun with my guildies for that hour. And yes, I’ve done every dungeon in the game and got my dungeon master title. And some dungeons are a lot more difficult this way than they need to be. So?

I play games to have fun and enjoy myself and a lot of people play RPGs not for stats, but for building a character they enjoy playing. Do you know what character I enjoy playing least? Zerker warriors. I find them massively boring. I have one, 80th level, fully geared, and don’t play him. Not interested enough.

So yeah, your logic works for someone with your play style but doesn’t work for people who don’t have your play style.

Still doesn’t address why everyone would be forced to use a drop. Maybe fractal runners might feel that using a drop was a better choice for them (it is still a choice, though). I’m thinking lots of people either don’t do fractals, or they craft the weapon of their choice. It might be beneficial to you to broaden your perception of who plays this game. It seems a bit dungeon-centric. Just a thought, though. =)

I might add that I am lv 50 in Fractals too. Could be more, but it got boring

But to be fair, I got to lv 40 using Mad king gear. Yes, that is an MF gear.

Bubi.7942:

What is this thread? Is this a Gw2 should like WoW, or Celestial Gear sucks thread? I am confused. Naturally I didn’t read the OP.

If it’s the latter: I also use Celestial gear. With all stat ascended accessories. Beat Liadri, done 8 orb achievment too, I win 90% of the fights in WvW.

Sup?

tl;dr of the OP: he called you stupid

Ventrue.5731:

Marnick, common sense in video games is “the set up does not matter, what matters is interaction”. Allow me to just talk about my play style a bit just so you would see how I play. I am a guardian, the first week of release I came up with a build I still use.

You would be surprised at how uncommon common sense actually is, and how often it betrays you. Arguments from common sense therefor are logical fallacies:
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Common_sense

Bubi.7942:

But to be fair, I got to lv 40 using Mad king gear. Yes, that is an MF gear.

Repent Sinner, the end in nigh!
etc. etc.

Bubi.7942:

What is this thread? Is this a Gw2 should like WoW, or Celestial Gear sucks thread? I am confused. Naturally I didn’t read the OP.

If it’s the latter: I also use Celestial gear. With all stat ascended accessories. Beat Liadri, done 8 orb achievment too, I win 90% of the fights in WvW.

Sup?

He’s basically saying this game should indeed, “be like WoW”, and further, that you are terrible and literally stupid, which is obviously nonsense, given what you’ve achieved!

I think this is the classic “checkboxer” deal. The OP is a “checkboxer”. He doesn’t really know how to play or think for himself, but he can follow the HELL out of a guide, and he’s really really mad that not everyone else operates the same way, and feels that they should forced to, as WoW effectively did.

I mean, WoW certainly became the “guide following game”, but that’s part of the reason I got bored with it. Checkboxing is a moderately successful strategy, but an awfully boring one.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

1) Gear and dps. Perhaps you like to get every last ounce of power out of your builds, and that’s fine; however, not everyone plays that way. Some people lack the timing needed to dodge (unless the skill has a massive windup), some people don’t care if they aren’t getting all of the potential dps they could. Some people don’t give a rat’s kitten about the math. So they use other stats. Some people only play alone out in the open world and prefer condition spiking. It’s their right to choose. That’s the beauty of the game. We can opt to faceroll through with straight dps, or we can play condition, or we can team up with someone and run more towards support, while the other person does the majority of the damage. There is no cut and dry “you must run this.” Honestly, if you are bothered by the fact that someone else chooses to use a different gear, then don’t play with them, that’s your choice. Create or join a guild of all zerkers, and only play with them, then you are with like minded individuals. Let the rest of us do our own thing when it comes to gear and builds. As long as we aren’t interfering with your play, you shouldn’t have anything to complain about.

2) Skills….. again with feeling the need to always do max damage, and just facerolling through the game. I’m glad that’s fun for you, but its not for everyone else necessarily. I do admit that some skills need some tweaking, some adjustments. Nothing is ever perfect when it comes to balancing skills. I honestly doubt that its truly possible to ever complete balance a game’s skills, but that’s beside the point. Where was I, oh yes, sure you take a dps hit for some weapons if you use the other skills, but generally the additional perks from those other skills are useful. Short bow for example, skill 4 cripples. If you need to kite them, slowing them down is helpful. Skill 5 is a stun, which is great if you need a moment for a breather, or if you’re saving someone else’s kitten. Skill 3 allows me to put some space between me and my foe is he gets in too close, allowing me to get out of harms way, which is handy if I’ve exhausted my dodges for the time being. This skill has saved me on a couple of occasions where I’d simply over aggroed and didn’t have enough dodges to avoid all the hard blows. Does it knock down my overall dps a bit, sure. Handy, in the right situations, yeah. It’s not all about dps for everyone. Anyone can dps to their hearts content, anyone can learn a rotation and then follow it like a brain dead hamster. Not everyone can utilize additional functionality to keep their sorry butts (or someone elses’) alive when the situation arises.

Yes, you can argue (validly) that if you kill them fast enough, you don’t have to worry about getting hit, or whatever. However, this goes back to, its not all about facerolling through the content for everyone. For some people, killing the foe in 2 hits just is not fun. They desire more to their combat than just letting the auto attack go while they watch tv.

1. Well, as I said, I mostly want to argue the extreme cases were one person does 4k dps and another 600. Being a ranger you have no reason not to go berserk since your at range, range by it self does less damage then melee and some people opt to go range while being tanky. I have no problem with the medium you describe, lets say power/precision/toughness – you get good amount of damage, you might not get one shot and you can melee and swap to range if you get low on hp. Thats smart play, I won’t call it skillful but it is smart enough and thats still very good.

2. Well, the ranger was mostly an example, if your on a boss in a dungeon as a ranger very often you can just click 1 and then afk, if the boss is not on you, then pressing 2-5 will be a dps loss because of attacks hitting for same damage but slower, so your rotation is 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1. My argument there is not getting the most of your rotation by not pressing buttons, but the fact that there isn’t many buttons for pressing, making it boring. Still, you are right, those skills are useful if you need to kite. As I mentioned above, melee does more damage, and ranger 1h sword kills for damage, but its only a chasing weapon, player has little control during those auto attacks, he can swap targets for leaps but he can’t move during the auto attack 2 and 3. I have touched up on the fact that you need an easier way to cancel you attack animation cause it often kills people, thats why I never see 1h sword in dungeons, most melee rangers go 2h.