Guild Wars 2

They also need to make it so you can change builds (skills/traits) on the fly, like GW1, instead of this ridiculous, WoW-inspired “Go back to laggy town to talk to trainer” crap. Would encourage people to change up their builds to fit situations, instead of trying to build for anything an failing at it.

Lishtenbird.2814:

• More “difficult” content will come, as events like Mario were generally received as well-designed and entertaining, and there’s a clear tendency towards such events.
• This content may be introduced game-wide as a (properly scaling) single-person “tutorial dungeon” which has a permanent achievement category (similar to Aetherpath) and gives a good unique reward (similar to the shiny weapons from AP chests), plus gold/laurels. I do remember how eager I was to get my first Zenith skin and how short of gold and laurels I was; competitive-driven players, however, will do this content once to get their APs because there’s nothing better than “free” APs.
• If it is a “dungeon”, the instancing solves the problem of doing content with other people.
• This tutorial dungeon may also let players face mobs of different player professions and builds, as well as, probably, means of temporarily changing stats for measuring damage and survivability.
• This can be introduced as a part of LS – some kind of “Asura Training Grounds” which were built for all heroes after the rumours of a new dragon surfacing; I virtually see how little asuras lecture players and show them exhibits to train on! This content can remain permanent and get highly advertised by NPCs in starting and low-level zones.
• At this stage of the game the “exploration” part of experience can be greatly spoiled by both availability information on the Internet and “activities” like Queensdale zerg which result in players entering other zones and asking for a “train”. So at this point, again, probably a tutorial on other basic in-game “laws” and the “how it was supposed to be played” thing can be implemented there as well.

The challenge might be to make the idea appeal to ANet. I don’t see them throwing lots of resources at either single player content or instanced content. Their commitment to a vision of the game based on large, come-one-come-all content in the persistent instanced world is pretty clear. Also, I suspect that they would want permanent content to have some staying power (not be a one-and-done). As much as large numbers of players avoid Teq like the plague, there is little doubt that the event has been utilized over time, making the allocation of resources worthwhile.

ThorZimeron.2169:

They also need to make it so you can change builds (skills/traits) on the fly, like GW1, instead of this ridiculous, WoW-inspired “Go back to laggy town to talk to trainer” crap. Would encourage people to change up their builds to fit situations, instead of trying to build for anything an failing at it.

Man, you and I clearly played different GW1’s.

Because the version I played made you “go back to laggy town” (or some other outpost) to change your skills and traits as well.

Lishtenbird.2814:

• ANet, Please Teach Your Players How to Play Your Game.

Irrelevant! Irrelevant… irelevant… irrelevant…!!!! Who cares about player skill when we’re loosing players? Anet should be focusing on creating a more enjoyable game. Focusing on creating more play styles and associative content that makes players happy and feeling more fulfilled. The general population is decreasing because players aren’t having fun anymore. Increasing difficulty in an attempt to PUSH the players to be better is more than likely just going to push them away. This isn’t a job and we don’t have to play the game at all. That really needs to be kept as the first though here.

With that said, yes, Anet could make more training areas in game. There should be a training area in WvW and in each city. Much better versions than those practice dummies in LA. One that gives you feed back with a damage report or dps meter. Anet also could make more tutorial video’s on how damage scaling works with food, etc. They truly leave players in the dark too much. /wiki isn’t viable when players don’t even know what to look for. Not to mention have the time to research for days

Be good at the game or bad, people deserve to experience the game the way they want. The only issue I have is rewards depending on group effort rather than personal ability, this is where the source of the animosity between player skill levels reside.

The average player has no interest in getting better at the game, they just want to experience new content. Arena Net needs to re-learn how to address this, GW1 they had a hard mode and I see no reason that this mechanic could not be used to solve everyone’s various issues.

I do see that with the Scarlet battle, they have once again tried to blend a learning process into the actual battle.

• First players fight the knights, where they are required to watch their conditions, and attune to specific colors.

• Next players must attune to all three colors, to enter the teleporter.

• During the battle with the hologram, the players must repeat this mechanic that they should now be familiar with.

• When the hologram splits up, players should now remember the strategy that they used at the knights, and attune to the correct color for each hologram.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I do see that with the Scarlet battle, they have once again tried to blend a learning process into the actual battle.

• First players fight the knights, where they are required to watch their conditions, and attune to specific colors.

• Next players must attune to all three colors, to enter the teleporter.

• During the battle with the hologram, the players must repeat this mechanic that they should now be familiar with.

• When the hologram splits up, players should now remember the strategy that they used at the knights, and attune to the correct color for each hologram.

I have never seen this encounter fail, but I doubt that is due to a learning experience. The Knights simply sort the wheat from the chaff, groups with an abundance of bad players don´t make it into the instance (yes, I know, an oversimplification seeing the way those instances are probably populated with players, but I guess a tendency is there).

It would be the job of level1 maps to train-out players.
For example, when you go deeper to Queensdale, it should go teatch you how to stealth from Taimi raids, how to dodge boar charges, debuff the oakhearts, condition removals at gups, etc.
Restrictions are like teaching a kid to read by giving him a high-grade physics study collection.

I also agree that there is nothing that could be done to improve skills of those who don’t want to get better or can’t get better.

Anet needs to avoid putting harder content into open areas, because even a few of unskilled players can make the whole fight fail. Encounters of Tequatl, Marionette or Wurm calibre should have two versions: open world easier one, and instanced, raid-like harder version. This solution would make both sides of the barricade happy, except those bads that enjoy leeching off from others.

Konrad.9587:

I also agree that there is nothing that could be done to improve skills of those who don’t want to get better or can’t get better.

I disagree. I think the game could be designed in such a way that people naturally learn as they play, regardless if they want to or not. The Scarlet battle is a perfect example of that.

Konrad.9587:

Anet needs to avoid putting harder content into open areas, because even a few of unskilled players can make the whole fight fail.

Again, I disagree. Allowing inexperienced players to play with experienced players, is the perfect way to teach players to be better.

It would seem to me that the real problem here, is battles that allow a minority of lesser skilled players to cause a wipe for everyone else.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I disagree. I think the game could be designed in such a way that people naturally learn as they play, regardless if they want to or not. The Scarlet battle is a perfect example of that.

According to Anet, certain % of players are not aware of the trait system, don’t change their utilities and don’t know how the combo fields work. But this game is almost two years old, isn’t it too late to redesign the learning process? Regarding the Scarlet battle, well, I see players failing on the holograms as much as on the knights, so it may not have the desired effect, same like NPCs shouting orders on Tequatl.

Again, I disagree. Allowing inexperienced players to play with experienced players, is the perfect way to teach players to be better.

Yes, inexperienced players learning from experienced ones is a healthy process, just like players figuring out the tactics on their own. However, most of inexperienced and unskilled players have no intention to put any effort into improving, even if it means only as much as reading and following map chat advices, or imitating others.

And honestly, why should they? There is plenty of various content that lavishly rewards skill-less zerging to choose from.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Aeolus.3615:

IndigoSundown.5419:

What I get from this thread.

Players: “There’s no hard content, content that can actually be failed!”
ANet: Here, have harder content that can be failed!"
Players: “We’re failing that content because it’s hard. Teach everyone else how to play better.”
ANet: “How do we do that?”
Players: “Make harder content!”
ANet: “We just did that…”
Players: “Put it where I won’t be affected.”

This events are far from being hard content, it is a race where player only need best damage nothing more.

i can see that as hard content.

Not sure if the last sentence is supposed to be, “I can’t see…” or not — but, anyway…

It’s obvious the OP and his supporters see the new event(s) as “harder,” otherwise there’d be no need for people to have to “learn” to play better. His solution is for ANet to put in tutorial content that encourages people to improve their play.

Thing is, these events are content that encourages people to improve their play. The OP wants there to be a tutorial to do this instead of using content he wants to play. The bad news for his idea is that putting in a tutorial after the fact would not generate the improvement he’s looking for, because:

• New players make up a small portion of the player-base
• Existing players would not go do “tutorial” content unless there was a reward for doing so

If there were rewards for doing so, players like the OP would also be doing the tutorial content, and running into the same issues they’re complaining about now.

I agree.

Konrad.9587:

According to Anet, certain % of players are not aware of the trait system, don’t change their utilities and don’t know how the combo fields work.

The combo fields is something that Anet should explain. But the trait system and utilities, that is already part of the tutorial. The game does explain that. So if that’s true, there is very little you can do to improve that. Players that blatantly ignore the in game hints, and the trait system, are beyond hope.

Konrad.9587:

isn’t it too late to redesign the learning process

I don’t think it’s ever too late to make improvements to it. For example, the Zhaishen battlegrounds were added really late in GW1’s life cycle, but it never the less was a great aid to teach players about combat.

Konrad.9587:

Regarding the Scarlet battle, well, I see players failing on the holograms as much as on the knights, so it may not have the desired effect, same like NPCs shouting orders on Tequatl.

But what are they failing at? Surely not at attuning themselves to the right color? Because entering the battle requires that you attune yourself to all colors first, thus explaining how it works.

Konrad.9587:

However, most of inexperienced and unskilled players have no intention to put any effort into improving, even if it means only as much as reading and following map chat advices, or imitating others.

That is indeed a big problem, some players simply turn chat off completely.

Konrad.9587:

And honestly, why should they? There is plenty of various content that lavishly rewards skill-less zerging to choose from.

Easy rewards are not the problem in my opinion, nor do I think skill-less zerging is the problem (while I do wish they would step away from it). But it is when the designers raise the difficulty, that a lot of players are not prepared to up their game. The game could do a lot in improving the gradual difficulty curve. Maybe they could start by explaining combo fields?

stop makign content where everyone only has to mash 1 to win.

Seeing how this thread keeps going on.
Like I said before I never take food because I consider it cheating or mayby cheap is even a better word. You go to an NPC, buy some food eat it and for x more minutes you have more power or more …. that is imho just a silly mechanism and has nothing to do with skill.

However I do like other ‘funny’ abilities. Lets say a food would let you jump higher (or non-usefull things like getting drunk and getting hearts). But also the special items you can use can be fun and usefull. Think of a wooden plank and so on, that causes for some interesting game-play (don’t so much like the seed pot because thats a ranger thing, by adding it as normal item it obsoletes the ranger pig ability). However Anet seems to have a total different vision about this seeing how they disabled many of those consumables in WvW but most consumables that still give you a boost do work.

That being said, about learning people things. I think the text on top of an enemy should be given in another way. That is of course already the case, you should be able to see him do it, but with all the effects going on you can’t see it very good and when you are in a zerg situation it’s even worse. So try to make those attacks more clear without those text.. maybe even remove that text so people can only find it out by looking at what he does.

ellesee.8297:

stop makign content where everyone only has to mash 1 to win.

It’s not true that you have to just smash one, but it might feel so because teamplay is not really a ting in this game. That has a lot to do with the holy trinity. Now you are mainly dodging and smashing buttons whenever they come out of cooldown. The mesmer has a little more going for it because to sort of control the clones but thats very limited.

ellesee.8297:

stop makign content where everyone only has to mash 1 to win.

If that is how you played the Marionette and Scarlets Knights/Hologram, then no wonder the events failed so often.

We need two different levels of content as their is no magic middle ground that will satisfy casual/new players and `elite´ alike.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Random thoughts on the topic:

• There are “lesser-skilled” players in every MMO, but GW2 design throws all PvE demographics together in the same content, whereas in other games the skilled and lesser-skilled seldom interact.
• Some players demanded harder events; GW2 design places these harder events in the persistent world and in the LS. Since the content is new, everyone goes to these events, whether they wanted harder events or not.

Just wanted to highlight this and what was said after this. They can’t force players to be “more skilled”, but they can do stuff for skilled and less skilled players. You can improve, it’s not like any hard content is “locked” behind anything in gw2 (bar fotm and the horrible AR system lately implemented).

What did anet do regarding hard content? They added a few bosses with a bazillion hp in the LS, that can be taken down by the coordinated effort of kittened numbers like 100 players with no means for them to effectively coordinate, other than for the stupid blue tag, the squad chat and the overly suppressed map chat.
And there’s a tiny little problem…
Those players who ask every day for much harder content – and provide the skill required to beat such content – can barely reach those numbers, even if they all logged in at the same time and were actually willing to do that boring and frustrating content.
Why boring and frustrating? Because the challenge merely comes from being able to coordinate 80-100-120 people and herd them, hoping they actually provide enough dps for the task, because let’s not forget here, these bosses are nothing but GIGANTIC hp bags on a timer. So much for the “nerf zerk plox op”.

People asked for harder content. Anet answered “this is your harder content”.
It’s not the answer.
It’s just the immense disconnection between what that kind of hardcore player finds “challenging” and what anet thinks is “challenging”.

You can’t even have any control on what you do most of the time, due to the clutter and the mess on your screen during those events. How are less skilled players supposed to improve like this? The only skill they can develop is “follow that guy talking in map chat hoping he knows better”. Great stuff, uh? Better than nothing, but still a bad excuse for creating such content.

Now someone would probably scream something like “fractured playerbase!!!”
All I see is discontent of part of both sides, with the LS growing everywhere like the weed even if you don’t like it. It’s already fractured (!).

Making more instances and keeping the hard content there doesn’t prevent players from interacting or collaborating, or bad players from improving.

I thought gw2 was the game that removed griefing. I thought this was the game that would’ve allowed me to have choices: very casual content in the open world and hard content in dungeons. I thought we could come to an agreement where I do what I feel like and you do the same without bothering me.
What I got instead was this content I don’t like being forced down my throat (There, we’re removing this old path and adding a new dg path so you can have more LS); if I want to experience the new content they’re releasing , week after week, I’m forced to endure the overflows, the zerging; they ignore the content I like, week after week. Next update… And again? Nothing for dungeons, nothing for fractals other than a reset. Nothing.
I merely talk for myself so I don’t read casuals’ minds, but I simply can’t believe they enjoy being stuck in overflows for hours, or that they enjoy being yelled at by some soul on a nervous breakdown, or that they are fine with being told to reroll class/play zerk to take down knights, even if they don’t feel like it.

Again, so much for the “we nerf zerk cuz too op mang playhowiwant” and then slap mobs that reflect conditions and oneshot you so your soldier gear is useless.
Talk about mixed messages. Hah. “You zerker elitists suck and we hate you and we nerf you, but here: you clerics suck more at doing this”.

Bad implementation, badly thought-out, bad idea overall.

Is anything ever going to change? Of course not. Everything is fine, this is the land of rainbows and unicorns, keep playing how you want as long as you play as WE want.
If you’d like to improve your skill level, tuff luck. Change game.
Whatever.
GG. I’ve just created the ice wall of text, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until I get over this game and leave for good.

OP:
You can’t use the potion unless you’re level 80. Not everyone doing the event is 80.

Maybe they should make it so potions can only be used by < 80, to even out the power and keep enemies, uh… challenging, and easier to balance.

• Map hardcapped at 150 people.
• Server generates overflows way before this number can be reached.
• Main server won’t filled.
• Casuals still searching for Peter even if the patch is up for a month.
• “iplayhowiwant” mantra everywhere, everytime.
• DPS race content with the requirement of 100-150 player.

What did i miss again?

Tutorials, rewards, and scoreboards.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Tutorials, rewards, and scoreboards.

Scoreboards? I’m not exactly sure what do you mean. Like the Fractal leaderboard?