Guild Wars 2

I don’t play anymore either. I use to though. A lot. I also spent a lot of money; over 600$. I never considered it an expense but rather an investment. Not a good one I might add.

As time went on I realized that I wasn’t the target market.

To be honest I have no idea who they’re targeting. What age group or type of gamer exactly? Who knows. Long, repetitive grinding are features found in Facebook and Asian games. Definitely not for me. Lesson learnt.

Calae.1738:

I don’t play anymore either. I use to though. A lot. I also spent a lot of money; over 600$. I never considered it an expense but rather an investment. Not a good one I might add.

As time went on I realized that I wasn’t the target market.

To be honest I have no idea who they’re targeting. What age group or type of gamer exactly? Who knows. Long, repetitive grinding are features found in Facebook and Asian games. Definitely not for me. Lesson learnt.

Well I think Warhammer online was the last MMORPG which targeted a specific group of people. Perhaps there were some other after that, which I didn’t play but since then you will mostly find MMORPGs targeted at more than one group. You know… actionbased, stats based, gear grind without geargrind, storyfocused casual MMO, featuring PVP and “high difficulty” dungeons, meaningful decisions without being forced to choose, THEMEPARK, etc….That doesn’t sound like the needs of one group – it doesn’t even sound like a solid game concept.

Sirendor.1394:

I’m of the opinion that no living story will really be end-game. Point is that the current system does not work for those who want a challenge. There’s too much stress on looting mobs, and not enough stress on decent rewards if you actually do succeed. Most of these fights aren’t even fun aswell. Tequatl, Marionette, Wurm are only done for loot during the event, and the end chest if that goal can be achieved in combination with tagging mobs.

I told you what I thought of as end-game: raids, missions, character development… most of it horizontal progression instead of vertical.

Looking for end game problem is the first issue in my opinion. Tequalt and Wurm are hard sure but so is any champion in the game if soloed or done with 3 or less people.
Same goes for nearly every group event in the game. Its really up to the player most of the time. Leave the zerg and go solo in LA and you’ll get some decent fights on your hands. I personally am not a spectacular player but I am not bad either yet I did a few times on my solo runs, then I meet someone else who generally know what they’re doing (most of those I just autoattack players I suppose stick to the zerg) and suddenly the balance is just perfect. Enjoyable not too hard but a mistake can get you killed if you’re not attentive.

My moto is Gw2 is a themepark that needs to be played like a sandbox. This MMO does tell you what to do, it leaves it up to the player. Do the right choices for you and the game is ton of fun. Do the wrong choices (either out of greed or because you think stuff that is important in other MMOs is important here as well) and you’ll not enjoy yourself so much. Thats my view at least, I might be right or I may be wrong I dont know. all I know is I avoid a lot of the stuff people complain about dont have any trouble playing the game and enjoy myself a lot!

Escadin.9482:

Nage.1520:

My point is the most challenging content in this game is ignored by most people.

My point is you’re not the rule, you’re the exception and developers don’t really need to waste development time on the exception. They have to feed the masses, not the small percentage of people who say something is needed because they personally want it.

I ignored most “challenging” content in this game because it wasn’t interesting to me, gave my playstyle no chance to improve upon without refering to ascended gear/ meta builds (altough they advertised this would be possible) or because trying to coordinate people who refuse to be coordinated is only challenging my patience.
It’s not that I don’t want a challenge, I just don’t want this challenge (my opinion).

However, I don’t understand your logic with opinions in general. If I am not the mass and you are not the mass. Who is it then? Who are they catering to? Even in a mass everyone is an individual with personal opinions and preferences. Everyone is rather a “small percantage”, a minority. There is simply nobody who would 100% agree with how the game is designed and even if you were that one, you were a minority and apparently Anet shouldn’t waste development time for you.

That philosophy makes better companies, not better games. Gameplay doesn’t improve for anyone, because everyone just gets a smaller part of dedication. Their income icreases though because their audience grows. I think you’re defending the wrong side, well, your opinion doesn’t matter to that side at least.

@your earlier remark: I don’t find where it says GW2 is supposed to have no “end game”. Could it be that we rely on different definitions of endgame?

Umm, the whole “entire game is end game” discussion has been around for years. It was widely said by devs over and over that Guild Wars 2 didn’t have an end game, or that the entire game was end game. Colin described it this way. He said that in most games when you get to level cap the game changes. You were doing one thing, now you’re doing something else. He was saying (and I’m paraphrasing here) that doesn’t happen in Guild Wars 2. And he’s right. I do the same thing at max level I did all along. Which is what I wanted from the game, so I’m happy.

The other comment you make is something I’ve having trouble understanding. There are limited hours for developers to create content. It’s not unlimited. So naturally, you have to cater to the majority first. The reason? If you cater to a minority at the expense of the majority and the majority leaves, you have no game…not for the minority or the majority. You have to cater to the masses of you’re going to end up out of business..

It doesn’t mean you can’t or shouldn’t provide anything to a minority. It does mean that you have to have a pretty good idea of what percentage of people are actually playing that ultra hard content.

Over the years, there have been all sorts of polls and statistics published that show that most players never do the hardest content in any game. So if you make that kind of content, you’re excluding most players.

But you know, it’s all just my opinion anyway.

Draknar.5748:

sorudo.9054:

it takes me weeks to get some gold in GW2.

You do know that dungeon paths give gold upon completion right? I made 75g last week alone…

If it’s taking you weekS to get some gold in this game, then I hate to say it but you aren’t doing it right.

ah, there we have it, dungeons…….
i don’t do dungeons because ppl discriminate with gear and profession, same with fractures.
something you don’t see in GW1 and you know why, because in GW1 it’s all equal and depends more on your build then your gear.
better yet, right now necro’s are wanted in GW1 groups because a good minion master can rule over a whole group of enemies, in GW2 they rather spit on you if you use a necro let alone a non-maxed geared one.

so try again, one with casual play and no dungeons/fractures.
in GW1 i can easily play without and still get a few K, there is no chance in hell to get that much in GW2.

Nage.1520:

Umm, the whole “entire game is end game” discussion has been around for years. It was widely said by devs over and over that Guild Wars 2 didn’t have an end game, or that the entire game was end game. Colin described it this way. He said that in most games when you get to level cap the game changes. You were doing one thing, now you’re doing something else. He was saying (and I’m paraphrasing here) that doesn’t happen in Guild Wars 2. And he’s right. I do the same thing at max level I did all along. Which is what I wanted from the game, so I’m happy.

The other comment you make is something I’ve having trouble understanding. There are limited hours for developers to create content. It’s not unlimited. So naturally, you have to cater to the majority first. The reason? If you cater to a minority at the expense of the majority and the majority leaves, you have no game…not for the minority or the majority. You have to cater to the masses of you’re going to end up out of business..

It doesn’t mean you can’t or shouldn’t provide anything to a minority. It does mean that you have to have a pretty good idea of what percentage of people are actually playing that ultra hard content.

Over the years, there have been all sorts of polls and statistics published that show that most players never do the hardest content in any game. So if you make that kind of content, you’re excluding most players.

But you know, it’s all just my opinion anyway.

Thanks for elaborating. What used to happen when you reach max level is that the game runs out of fresh content, which means it switches into ‘conservation mode’ where the remaining fresh content is heavily timegated or the player is handed over control over the content to some extent so that he/she can shape out new experiences. This is what I call “end game” and oddly enough I do see such mechanics in GW2 (fractals, WvW, legendaries).
Well the transition is much smoother in GW2, so there is that.

About that second part:
It depends on majority of what. What you said would be true if the game had a single audience, but it does not. We have tons of GW1 fans, ex WoW, innovation hunters, Newcomers, casuals and probably some more. Are you saying Anet should mainly listen to let’s say GW1 fans (in case they happen to be the majority?) but I already see you saying neither of them.

The thing is: I don’t see how these different type can come together and form a single majority in terms of their vision of the ideal MMORPG. Even with infinite programming ressources their visions will be hard to fulfil, starting with the fact that they will be contrary and conflictive. You can’t make a casual hardcore game for example. So obviously that majority you are talking about can’t be a majority of people with the same demands.

I can only imagine that all this people will come to a common ground in terms of what they are able to tolerate. Casuals don’t want hardmode content, well that’s fine with ex WoW who don’t want to farm hardmode content. Well now there is grind, but let’s keep it short (also fine with casuals). And it goes on like that. The point is: Did casuals want to have grind in their game in the first place or are they just tolerating it because it’s not too demanding/important?

Nobody in their right mind would buy that game because it offers nothing but compromises for people you didn’t intent to play with anyway, unless ofc Anet adds a piece of candy for everyone. What we are left with is a good first impression and some candy. Hurray for everyone who starts realising this isn’t the game he imagined by a long shot.

I mean it’s just my opinion, but as a customer and probably from a innovative game designer’s point of view, this is a development we didn’t want to see. What we actually wanted are more dedicated games and a broader variety of them.

I don’t feel the same way as the OP. I personally hated GW1, and the only reason why I play GW2 is because it is nothing like GW1, which to me was kind of boring.

KarlaGrey.5903:

That is rather odd, I don’t think I had a particular problem finding a group, but I suppose having a few regular pve mates helped in that regard. Moreover, I doubt you were trying a lot, because sooner or later you find people who are willing to educate a nablet, as long as they are ready and willing to learn.
Moreover, if you couldn’t farm for ecto/shards you could always opt for the pvp and trade pvp rewards for pve items, but I do admit those additions were implemented later on in the game.
Instead, you could try farming ettins for sup vigour runes, or do runs for money (I LOVED the first time I was ran to droks, and would eventually do runs on my own just for the fun of achievement).

I did say I mained a Ranger right? I didn’t actually get groups regularly until I found a great Alliance I’m still with today. There were stretches of time days long where I could sit for a while trying to get a group, and not. I’d had enough of that in my EverQuest days so I’d hench up and go find something else to do.

As for the Ecto/Shards, I just calculated the amount of plat needed and went “nope” to using the Rare Materials Trader.

And making money for me in GW1 really was more lacking in Drok Runs for cash (couldn’t quite get past Dreadnought’s Drift), and I didn’t exactly have the best drop luck so farming runes was mostly out. No I made my money selling unidentified gold items. One run for my Wisdom track, one run for gold.

sorudo.9054:

in GW1 i can easily play without and still get a few K, there is no chance in hell to get that much in GW2.

If you mean a few thousand gold, without figuring the difference in coinage? Yeah, kinda difficult to get 1k Gold. If you mean by actual coinage value then that’s more . . . hmmm. 10 Silver. Which is incredibly easy to make

If you mean making 1 Gold, also fairly easy to make in a few hours of prime time WvW. (The secret is not to spend it on upgrading camps/towers.)

Im a GW1 fan and find this game to be very disappointing…like several of my friends who also played GW1. I don’t know how long this game will be around but I’m already getting tired of it.

Nage.1520:

Umm, the whole “entire game is end game” discussion has been around for years. It was widely said by devs over and over that Guild Wars 2 didn’t have an end game, or that the entire game was end game. Colin described it this way. He said that in most games when you get to level cap the game changes. You were doing one thing, now you’re doing something else. He was saying (and I’m paraphrasing here) that doesn’t happen in Guild Wars 2. And he’s right. I do the same thing at max level I did all along. Which is what I wanted from the game, so I’m happy.

Whether that is true or not will depend very much on playstyle. Explorers might do their map completion up to and to some extent into level 80. However, exploring is not exploring if you’ve been there before. One can do map completion on alts, but it isn’t the same as doing that completion — or just hunting for Easter egss — the first go-round.

Very little content has been added for the explorer playstyle. This leaves “repeating content” for rewards, which is very much NOT what I was doing while leveling.

Now, I know that providing new areas for explorers is resource intensive and hits diminishing returns very quickly. This makes it less cost effective for the developer than providing achievement chases and focusing everyone into herd content. However, this makes GW2 more like other MMO’s, not less.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Nage.1520:

Umm, the whole “entire game is end game” discussion has been around for years. It was widely said by devs over and over that Guild Wars 2 didn’t have an end game, or that the entire game was end game. Colin described it this way. He said that in most games when you get to level cap the game changes. You were doing one thing, now you’re doing something else. He was saying (and I’m paraphrasing here) that doesn’t happen in Guild Wars 2. And he’s right. I do the same thing at max level I did all along. Which is what I wanted from the game, so I’m happy.

Whether that is true or not will depend very much on playstyle. Explorers might do their map completion up to and to some extent into level 80. However, exploring is not exploring if you’ve been there before. One can do map completion on alts, but it isn’t the same as doing that completion — or just hunting for Easter egss — the first go-round.

Very little content has been added for the explorer playstyle. This leaves “repeating content” for rewards, which is very much NOT what I was doing while leveling.

Now, I know that providing new areas for explorers is resource intensive and hits diminishing returns very quickly. This makes it less cost effective for the developer than providing achievement chases and focusing everyone into herd content. However, this makes GW2 more like other MMO’s, not less.

This is my biggest problem.

“grind” is only grind to me if I have to repeat the content more than 3 times.

At heart, I am an exploration/immersion player. Although I dabble in other things, primarily I’m the kind of player who wants to reach new places on the map, and discover forgotten ruins/dungeons.

This kind of play was promised to us in the Manifesto – but I found that it was severely over-hyped.

The mere layout of the world is anti-exploration. The proliferation of waypoints everywhere, the weird rectangular grid of zones, the fact that the world is not open or seamless.

It’s all streamlined. It’s a rollercoaster. A theme park ride.

And the combat itself is hardly challenging. Instead of creating a diverse bestiary with tons of monsters that use a wide variety of tactics and skills that one must learn to deal with, you just see a small handful of repeated monster models used over and over again.

I’ve actually started playing Rift again now that it’s free to play.

Not because I like Rift – I actually hate the game.

But because the skill tree is the one interesting thing about it, and building a character (though, unfortunately, not playing it) is fun.

GW2 needs a deeper customization skill/trait system.

The one we have is dreadfully boring.

I’d take D3’s skill system over GW2.

Yea this game do get boring and the end game is lame. I think if they remake gw2 or fix all the bug and balance all the classes (Yes i’m looking at you warriors, fastest class in the game and they wear heavy armor, WTF) this game can be a great game to play. I wish they can do something different to WvW because WvW is my favorite part of this game but it get boring really fast. I’m taking a break from this game mostly because i’m going to navy bootcamp march 19. I will come back to this game in 2015 and i really HOPE they fix this game. GW2 is a huge letdown from GW1, ANet need to look at GW1 and see what make that game so great and add that in GW2.

ipan.4356:

The mere layout of the world is anti-exploration. The proliferation of waypoints everywhere, the weird rectangular grid of zones, the fact that the world is not open or seamless.

This is running on the same engine as GW1, albeit heavily modified; It was not designed to handle anything beyond the segregated map system that both games share. Granted, GW1 didn’t have the waypoints, but that just lead to a great deal of tedium and frustration.

ipan.4356:

It’s all streamlined. It’s a rollercoaster. A theme park ride.

Just because it isn’t an open world sandbox doesn’t mean it’s a railroaded theme park, either. Game design isn’t black or white.

ipan.4356:

And the combat itself is hardly challenging. Instead of creating a diverse bestiary with tons of monsters that use a wide variety of tactics and skills that one must learn to deal with, you just see a small handful of repeated monster models used over and over again.

Stop roaming in a zerg in Queensdale, maybe? The combat is just fine solo and in parties and there’s plenty of diversity in the game world if you actually explore outside of more than a few zones.

ipan.4356:

It’s all streamlined. It’s a rollercoaster. A theme park ride.

That’s quite honestly what I think an MMO should be. It should be streamlined. It should be a theme park. It’s not a one-trick pony game, it’s a game that offers a variety of activities and somehow ties them altogether. Which is what GW2 does… it’s just that none of those activities are particularly interesting. They have a real nice aesthetic but they lack depth and thus are boring.

And the combat itself is hardly challenging. Instead of creating a diverse bestiary with tons of monsters that use a wide variety of tactics and skills that one must learn to deal with, you just see a small handful of repeated monster models used over and over again.

I’d be perfectly fine with some re-use of monster models if the combat itself was involving… but it’s a snoozer. I just went to fight some champion boss in this recent update and it just felt like every other champion boss fight I’ve been in. No interesting boss mechanics, nothing interesting for my engineer to do that could change the nature of the fight in any significant way.. nothing new, nothing.. interesting.. at.. all.

Outside of maybe TA aetherblade path, this game is severely lacking in cooperative PvE content. Even the PvP lacks the depth of the original. It’s partly by design and it’s partly because the content creators aren’t making anything cerebral for us to play through. GW1 suffered from similar issues content-wise but the skill system made it fun anyway.. I don’t know what to say about this game, I think the dull nature of the design is going to catch up to it in a few years. People are gonna toss this game aside like a rag doll when the true next big thing comes along. Maybe even a year’s time, maybe it’ll be something like ESO or Wildstar, but it’s comin’.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Nage.1520:

Umm, the whole “entire game is end game” discussion has been around for years. It was widely said by devs over and over that Guild Wars 2 didn’t have an end game, or that the entire game was end game. Colin described it this way. He said that in most games when you get to level cap the game changes. You were doing one thing, now you’re doing something else. He was saying (and I’m paraphrasing here) that doesn’t happen in Guild Wars 2. And he’s right. I do the same thing at max level I did all along. Which is what I wanted from the game, so I’m happy.

Whether that is true or not will depend very much on playstyle. Explorers might do their map completion up to and to some extent into level 80. However, exploring is not exploring if you’ve been there before. One can do map completion on alts, but it isn’t the same as doing that completion — or just hunting for Easter egss — the first go-round.

Very little content has been added for the explorer playstyle. This leaves “repeating content” for rewards, which is very much NOT what I was doing while leveling.

Now, I know that providing new areas for explorers is resource intensive and hits diminishing returns very quickly. This makes it less cost effective for the developer than providing achievement chases and focusing everyone into herd content. However, this makes GW2 more like other MMO’s, not less.

Not all exploring is just going to new zones though. I find exploring by find stuff that’s been changed. There’s a whole lot of additional dialogue and changes to things that come with each living story patch. I don’t go to sites to find this stuff unless I’m actually running out of time. Finding all that stuff on your own is time consuming…and it’s exploring.

But then, I’m interested in the new characters and what they have to say and what’s going to happen. It’s all part of exploration for me.

Would I like to explore a new zone. You bet. Is that the only type of exploring I’m open to? Well, no. I’ve found quite a few cut scenes and NPCs and conversations that many people have never seen (and many will never see).

Escadin.9482:

Thanks for elaborating. What used to happen when you reach max level is that the game runs out of fresh content, which means it switches into ‘conservation mode’ where the remaining fresh content is heavily timegated or the player is handed over control over the content to some extent so that he/she can shape out new experiences. This is what I call “end game” and oddly enough I do see such mechanics in GW2 (fractals, WvW, legendaries).
Well the transition is much smoother in GW2, so there is that.

About that second part:
It depends on majority of what. What you said would be true if the game had a single audience, but it does not. We have tons of GW1 fans, ex WoW, innovation hunters, Newcomers, casuals and probably some more. Are you saying Anet should mainly listen to let’s say GW1 fans (in case they happen to be the majority?) but I already see you saying neither of them.

The thing is: I don’t see how these different type can come together and form a single majority in terms of their vision of the ideal MMORPG. Even with infinite programming ressources their visions will be hard to fulfil, starting with the fact that they will be contrary and conflictive. You can’t make a casual hardcore game for example. So obviously that majority you are talking about can’t be a majority of people with the same demands.

I can only imagine that all this people will come to a common ground in terms of what they are able to tolerate. Casuals don’t want hardmode content, well that’s fine with ex WoW who don’t want to farm hardmode content. Well now there is grind, but let’s keep it short (also fine with casuals). And it goes on like that. The point is: Did casuals want to have grind in their game in the first place or are they just tolerating it because it’s not too demanding/important?

Nobody in their right mind would buy that game because it offers nothing but compromises for people you didn’t intent to play with anyway, unless ofc Anet adds a piece of candy for everyone. What we are left with is a good first impression and some candy. Hurray for everyone who starts realising this isn’t the game he imagined by a long shot.

I mean it’s just my opinion, but as a customer and probably from a innovative game designer’s point of view, this is a development we didn’t want to see. What we actually wanted are more dedicated games and a broader variety of them.

Well it’s true, you can’t make something for everyone. But we’re still talking about most games, most people didn’t raid. That’s how it played out. So putting real time and effort in to keep raiders raiding was problematical in a lot of games. Maybe not for Blizzard, because they have huge financial reserves. Guild Wars 2 doesn’t have that advantage, so it has to pick and choose content upgrades.

When Rift first game out, it was a game that had a very cool open world experience, but it ended up being all about raids. A lot of people walked. They were frustrated that everything forced them to raid. And you know the head of the company, he was a raiding guy. He liked raiding so he thought everyone would like raiding so he focused on raids. It almost cost them the whole game early on, because so many people didn’t wan to raid. They didn’t count on that.

End game content needs to be fit in with the rest of the content. It can’t be a thing by itself. And you know, no matter what you come out with, it’s not enough. People beat it and they want more/the next end game content.

I’m guessing that unless you’re a huge company with a big budget, you either have to focus on one thing or another. If you don’t have focus, you lose everyone, because you can’t come out with everything all at the same time. It’s just not possible.

From what I see of upgrades, it seems Anet thinks their bred is buttered by open world content, particularly farming and zerging. So that’s where they put most development time.

What would you do? If people are actually logging in and playing in numbers to farm and zerg, every two weeks., would you stop feeding them or would you keep feeding them?

Particularly if you find that after a short time all hard content is abandoned?

I know what I’d do if I were a company trying to keep a game running long term.

I’ve said it before, I’ve said it like 8 times

If they continued to support guild wars 1, I would immediately go straight back to that over GW2.

You’re not wrong for giving up on the game. Anet should be ashamed of themselves for what they’ve done to the Guild Wars franchise, GW2 is an embarrassment and an unforgivable slap in the face to the people who played and enjoyed GW1.

HappyPrimes.3904:

You’re not wrong for giving up on the game. Anet should be ashamed of themselves for what they’ve done to the Guild Wars franchise, GW2 is an embarrassment and an unforgivable slap in the face to the people who played and enjoyed GW1.

Not everyone who played Guild Wars 1 feels this way.

Nage.1520:

HappyPrimes.3904:

You’re not wrong for giving up on the game. Anet should be ashamed of themselves for what they’ve done to the Guild Wars franchise, GW2 is an embarrassment and an unforgivable slap in the face to the people who played and enjoyed GW1.

Not everyone who played Guild Wars 1 feels this way.

No, no but it is an unforgivable slap in the face for the minimum specs they released with. I thought I had it, and once more, my computer apparently doesn’t work with the latest release of the Living Story.

Talk about insults . . . thing keeps losing connection for some reason and it’s only inside Lion’s Arch.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Nage.1520:

HappyPrimes.3904:

You’re not wrong for giving up on the game. Anet should be ashamed of themselves for what they’ve done to the Guild Wars franchise, GW2 is an embarrassment and an unforgivable slap in the face to the people who played and enjoyed GW1.

Not everyone who played Guild Wars 1 feels this way.

No, no but it is an unforgivable slap in the face for the minimum specs they released with. I thought I had it, and once more, my computer apparently doesn’t work with the latest release of the Living Story.

Talk about insults . . . thing keeps losing connection for some reason and it’s only inside Lion’s Arch.

That sucks dude. Hope you get it working.

Do people actually know what a slap in the face is? Getting the impression that they don’t.

personally I would say you gave up too soon. Sure some of the servers are dead but that doesn’t really stop you enjoying the game. I’m forever meeting new people and I was like yourself gave up and went elsewhere. To be honest glad I came back

ipan.4356:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Nage.1520:

Umm, the whole “entire game is end game” discussion has been around for years. It was widely said by devs over and over that Guild Wars 2 didn’t have an end game, or that the entire game was end game. Colin described it this way. He said that in most games when you get to level cap the game changes. You were doing one thing, now you’re doing something else. He was saying (and I’m paraphrasing here) that doesn’t happen in Guild Wars 2. And he’s right. I do the same thing at max level I did all along. Which is what I wanted from the game, so I’m happy.

Whether that is true or not will depend very much on playstyle. Explorers might do their map completion up to and to some extent into level 80. However, exploring is not exploring if you’ve been there before. One can do map completion on alts, but it isn’t the same as doing that completion — or just hunting for Easter egss — the first go-round.

Very little content has been added for the explorer playstyle. This leaves “repeating content” for rewards, which is very much NOT what I was doing while leveling.

Now, I know that providing new areas for explorers is resource intensive and hits diminishing returns very quickly. This makes it less cost effective for the developer than providing achievement chases and focusing everyone into herd content. However, this makes GW2 more like other MMO’s, not less.

This is my biggest problem.

“grind” is only grind to me if I have to repeat the content more than 3 times.

At heart, I am an exploration/immersion player. Although I dabble in other things, primarily I’m the kind of player who wants to reach new places on the map, and discover forgotten ruins/dungeons.

This kind of play was promised to us in the Manifesto – but I found that it was severely over-hyped.

The mere layout of the world is anti-exploration. The proliferation of waypoints everywhere, the weird rectangular grid of zones, the fact that the world is not open or seamless.

It’s all streamlined. It’s a rollercoaster. A theme park ride.

And the combat itself is hardly challenging. Instead of creating a diverse bestiary with tons of monsters that use a wide variety of tactics and skills that one must learn to deal with, you just see a small handful of repeated monster models used over and over again.

Funny cause I am an explorer too and not only I would say Gw2 is definitely not anti-exploration but also quite the opposite it is one of the few MMOs where you can do some real exploration. I am not talk about reaching Vistas or POI I wouldnt even consider that exploration, I am talking about real exploration like say Finding Saul D’alessio tomb (which unless you do a little proper exploration you’ll only know it as Martyr’s Tomb ) and also summoning and killing the ghost of the white mantle confessor guarding the tomb. This is all content that people who dont take time to explore will miss. How many MMOs hide actual content away that players are never going to experience unless they go outside the beaten path and actually explore. Enitrely unmarked content or content physically hidden away is very rare in MMOs and is what I would consider a truly explorer content.

But you’re right there is little of it and it hasnt increased much since release which is a pity.

The fact that zones are rectangular and not seemless doesnt effect exploration though you can still effectively travel everywhere, zone teleporters just take you a few meters forward at best . how does any of that hinder exploration?

There is no game that is for everyone, some people may like it, some may not and no, just because someone dislikes a game they are not haters neither is the one liking a blind fanboi, it is all about how you see things, your taste and perspective.

On the other hand, I think we should be a bit realistic with bashing on a game. Yes the game got its flaws but the company is trying to listen to the players all the time and yes, the gear additions were because of the PLAYERS, the community spammed the forums and sites about something they wanted to do, ok, now you have gear but obviously not everyone are happy and people start threads again about how the game became grindy.

Gw1 and WoW, the two games that are being compared with Gw2 here got ALOT of flaws and people have been complaining about both for years, yet, when you want to direct your negative view on something, you will totally do it, like how alot of people are trying to dig for mistakes in Gw2 system.

The game isn’t perfect at all, there needs to be huge fixes and balances, new possibilities and updates, but this is how MMOs are, they need time. You just gotta try to have fun instead of thinking the whole day about flaws in the game that doesn’t even impact your gameplay but you just feel impacted mentally, something that you choose yourself.

Games are games, try to enjoy them and appreciate what company is doing, because despite your perspective, Gw2 is a success and the resources available atm, will hopefully lead to a game, closer to prefection than before.

lisla.9057:

personally I would say you gave up too soon. Sure some of the servers are dead but that doesn’t really stop you enjoying the game. I’m forever meeting new people and I was like yourself gave up and went elsewhere. To be honest glad I came back

can someone tell me which are these dead servers? cause I tried a little experiment by spending a little time playing on the two medium population servers over in europe (medium is as low as it gets) and frankly they werent dead at all. I spend some time playing in mid level zones (without any ls or invasion or anything out of the ordinary taking place) and they surely werent crowded but I still ran into players and did events in small groups at one point we were a group of 5 even. I am starting to think dead servers are an urban legend really.

PS. Do you know what’s funny enough, it is the same company who made all three, Gw2 and Gw1 and while the whole team didn’t work on WoW, some of the main directors of WoW vanilla are the ones who created Anet.

They are trying new things, and frankly enough, I don’t see any other options that are better in the industry atm. What they are doing may not be perfect as mentioned, but it is impressing enough they are trying.

The main devs behind GW (notably Jeff Strain, who worked magic with GW) have long been gone from Anet, and have founded a new studio called Unded Labs.
No Strain no gain, kekek.

KarlaGrey.5903:

The main devs behind GW (notably Jeff Strain, who worked magic with GW) have long been gone from Anet, and have founded a new studio called Unded Labs.
No Strain no gain, kekek.

And the third guy who founded the company now works for Terra. lol

I have never read a forum post (on any forum) that I have agreed with more. Although I should have said this four months ago, thank you for writing this QueenHysteria . For the months preceding your post I had struggled to enjoy this game. After reading your post, I immediately uninstalled GW2 and played Random Arenas in Guild Wars 1 for a solid three hours. That decade-old game is still as fun as ever. Within two years, this game has lost my interest. It really is a shame.

As a matter of personal opinion and taste, you can’t be wrong. If the game isn’t for you,. it isn’t for you.

The problem is a lot of things you were expecting were known before the game launched and you didn’t look deeply enough into it, or tailor your expectations enough to realize this would be a different game.

I played Guild Wars 1 for years and knew this game would be very different. Far fewer skills, no secondary profession, no GvG, less PvP modes, much higher level cap, and yes, I knew there would be optional grinding, because there was optional grinding in Guild Wars 1 as well. That wasn’t going to change. No one could possibly create a game with enough content that didn’t have some kind of grind element. It didn’t matter what you were grinding for.

There were definitely liberties taken with Guild Wars 2 with regards to Guild Wars 1. But I knew about quite a few of them before launch, so I didn’t enter the game expecting Guild Wars 1.5.

For all the things missing from Guild Wars 1, it also has jumping (I love jumping puzzles), it’s not pathed (I want to be able to hop over a log), and it’s not as linear, and it has a marketplace so I don’t have to stand around in spamadan all day.

I also had had enough of build wars and I was ready for something new. You weren’t. You’re not wrong in that.

But I find it hard to believe anyone could have paid close attention to this game and not realized how different it would be.

I don’t get the “I loved GW1 so much compared to GW2”. Really.
Indeed, my first MMO was not GW1.
I purchased GW1 and all it’s expansions because my friends were playing it.
I couldn’t get myself to play it more than 2 weeks.
Sorry to say, I do not agree with OP.
Guild Wars 2 is way better in almost every aspect.
Not perfect. Actually, far from perfect. But the comparison to GW1 has no stand.

Welcome back thread. I thought you’d been locked!

I’m not going to go back through and try and find what I said before but I’ll just say comparing GW1 to GW2 is like comparing red apples to green apples. They’re similar and related to each other but you may end up only liking one sort or the other, or both. Or neither. And its really no big deal.

Holy thread necromancy batman! Anyway.

Deepcuts.9740:

Guild Wars 2 is way better in almost every aspect.
Not perfect. Actually, far from perfect. But the comparison to GW1 has no stand.

That is a matter of opinion of course. Just looking at the camera and the targeting, I can instantly pick something that GW1 does better than GW2.

I’m sure a lot of GW1 players also feel that way about the immersion of the game, and the amount of endgame content.

That’s not to say GW2 doesn’t have some things that are really good. I like dynamic events for example, the open world, jumping, rolling, and being able to cast while running.

Even though I have more negativity on the game right now but GW2 is still best free to play mmorpg atm. Trust me, I’m a doctor.

I agree with the OP.

I would like GW2 to evolve to be more unique and I think the living story is a fantastic vehicle to try new things.

I personally don’t care what route anet take on that uniqueness and I don’t care if they fail hard. If anet decide to use the living story to experiment it’s only a small part of the game that sucks and only for a short period of time.

There are heaps of really good suggestions on how to do this all over the forums and I’m sure the developers have their own ideas as well.

For me the take home is that GW2 fan base love this game and want to see it get better… as a developer that must feel pretty dam good.

Vayne.8563:

I also had had enough of build wars and I was ready for something new. You weren’t. You’re not wrong in that.

Boring, predictable, and plain old dumb enemies contributed far more to the “build wars” problem than any form of skill imbalance or other game design decision. If eliminating “build wars” was the primary concern, that could’ve been rectified by an opposition that was actually engaging to fight.

I don’t feel that GW2 really moved forward much in this regard, and I certainly don’t see the result of it as being more replayable.

But I find it hard to believe anyone could have paid close attention to this game and not realized how different it would be.

Well it’s right there in the title: Guild Wars 2. Anet is well within their rights to make a very different game as much as people have the right to be disappointed in it departing so much from it’s predecessor. “Guild Wars: Heroes of Tyria” seems far more appropriate, and can help distance the expectations by a lot.

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

I also had had enough of build wars and I was ready for something new. You weren’t. You’re not wrong in that.

Boring, predictable, and plain old dumb enemies contributed far more to the “build wars” problem than any form of skill imbalance or other game design decision. If eliminating “build wars” was the primary concern, that could’ve been rectified by an opposition that was actually engaging to fight.

I don’t feel that GW2 really moved forward much in this regard, and I certainly don’t see the result of it as being more replayable.

But I find it hard to believe anyone could have paid close attention to this game and not realized how different it would be.

Well it’s right there in the title: Guild Wars 2. Anet is well within their rights to make a very different game as much as people have the right to be disappointed in it departing so much from it’s predecessor. “Guild Wars: Heroes of Tyria” seems far more appropriate, and can help distance the expectations by a lot.

You ever play the Final Fantasy games. They’re all part of a series, but they’re all as different as can be. All games evolve and change. Hell World of Warcraft used the lore from Warcraft, but it’s not an RTS. Might and Magic had Heroes of Might and Magic, which is a completely different type of game.

A name is a name. But the information about what was going to be in this game wasn’t hidden in the bottom draw of a filing cabinet somewhere. We knew a lot about the combat of the game, the builds in the game, the way the game would work before it ever launched.

To be fair there were things we didn’t know too, but to think this game would be like Guild Wars 1 shows a lack of research.

Vayne.8563:

But the information about what was going to be in this game wasn’t hidden in the bottom draw of a filing cabinet somewhere.

Behellagh.1468:

Vayne.8563:

But the information about what was going to be in this game wasn’t hidden in the bottom draw of a filing cabinet somewhere.

LMAO! That’s exactly what I was thinking of when I typed that.

Vayne.8563:

I played Guild Wars 1 for years and knew this game would be very different. Far fewer skills, no secondary profession, no GvG, less PvP modes, much higher level cap, and yes, I knew there would be optional grinding, because there was optional grinding in Guild Wars 1 as well.
[…]
But I find it hard to believe anyone could have paid close attention to this game and not realized how different it would be.

While everyone who cared knew those changes were going to take place, the way they were handled was rather awful. For example, the reasoning behind fewer skills and no secondaries was that they were too hard to maintain. That’s completely true. GW1 had skill bloat, lots of bugs and poor balance. The thing is, GW2 isn’t much better.

For example, I used to main a mesmer. They’re fun… when they work. Last time I checked, around 1/3 of my skills didn’t work properly. After two years of GW2 being out. Mind you, some of these bugs have been there since release and are huge. Like iLeap only working half of the time. I decided to switch to my necro and make a build… oh wait, I want to PvE, so I can’t use any condition damage abilities without shooting myself in the foot, because half of GW2’s attack skills don’t work properly in PvE. So, now I’m playing with my guardian and he’s pretty fun, but seriously? The condition this game is in is horrid.

Being different isn’t a problem by itself. However, you’ve got to be different in a good way. GW2 was supposed to be more balanced and e-sport-friendly than GW1. Instead, we got a game where PvP is barely alive, PvE is full of bugs and gets barely any new content and the focus of development is on… oh wait, what is it on? I remember a dev saying they’ll post a road map for this year, but that’s nowhere to be seen. And please, spare me the “they’re so afraid” commentary. A studio has to communicate with its clients properly even if it’s not fun, because it’s what their PR department is paid to do.

GW2 was an excellent game with tons of potential when it came out, but the complete failure to develop it further is apparent. It’s still a fun game to mess around in from time to time, but that’s it. A fun game instead of a great one.

No, you’re not wrong.

Vayne.8563:

You ever play the Final Fantasy games. They’re all part of a series, but they’re all as different as can be.

That’s…arguable? FF1-6 are certainly not “different as can be”, and the games that really are get labeled as such: Crystal Chronicles, Tactics, and the ‘Online’ games just to name a few.

All games evolve and change. Hell World of Warcraft used the lore from Warcraft, but it’s not an RTS. Might and Magic had Heroes of Might and Magic, which is a completely different type of game.

But they’re called “World of Warcraft” and “Heroes of Might and Magic”, respectively, not “Warcraft 4” or “Might and Magic VI”. I don’t think this game should’ve been called “Guild Wars 2”, especially in regards to ‘mending disappointment’ a more appropriate title would’ve suited it more.

Vayne.8563:

A name is a name. But the information about what was going to be in this game wasn’t hidden in the bottom draw of a filing cabinet somewhere. We knew a lot about the combat of the game, the builds in the game, the way the game would work before it ever launched.

To be fair there were things we didn’t know too, but to think this game would be like Guild Wars 1 shows a lack of research.

It was painstakingly clear: GW2 was certainly a different game than GW1. During it’s release, the extent of all that wasn’t really known. Only through investing time in the game could it be made apparent.

It goes right back to what I said in my previous post. I’m not pinning ‘blame’ for ANet wanting to make a different game, and at the same time I don’t think disappointment towards GW2 not being more akin to GW1 is all unwarranted.

Vayne.8563:

Behellagh.1468:

Vayne.8563:

But the information about what was going to be in this game wasn’t hidden in the bottom draw of a filing cabinet somewhere.

LMAO! That’s exactly what I was thinking of when I typed that.

I wonder how many get the reference.

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

You ever play the Final Fantasy games. They’re all part of a series, but they’re all as different as can be.

That’s…arguable? FF1-6 are certainly not “different as can be”, and the games that really are get labeled as such: Crystal Chronicles, Tactics, and the ‘Online’ games just to name a few.

All games evolve and change. Hell World of Warcraft used the lore from Warcraft, but it’s not an RTS. Might and Magic had Heroes of Might and Magic, which is a completely different type of game.

But they’re called “World of Warcraft” and “Heroes of Might and Magic”, respectively, not “Warcraft 4” or “Might and Magic VI”. I don’t think this game should’ve been called “Guild Wars 2”, especially in regards to ‘mending disappointment’ a more appropriate title would’ve suited it more.

Vayne.8563:

A name is a name. But the information about what was going to be in this game wasn’t hidden in the bottom draw of a filing cabinet somewhere. We knew a lot about the combat of the game, the builds in the game, the way the game would work before it ever launched.

To be fair there were things we didn’t know too, but to think this game would be like Guild Wars 1 shows a lack of research.

It was painstakingly clear: GW2 was certainly a different game than GW1. During it’s release, the extent of all that wasn’t really known. Only through investing time in the game could it be made apparent.

It goes right back to what I said in my previous post. I’m not pinning ‘blame’ for ANet wanting to make a different game, and at the same time I don’t think disappointment towards GW2 not being more akin to GW1 is all unwarranted.

The most minimal tiniest amount of research pre launch would have told you the level cap would be higher. I would have told you, just going to the Guild Wars 2 website pre launch in the combat article, that skills would be tied to weapons and there would be less of them. That you wouldn’t have the ability to pick all your skills. That a slot was dedicated to a healing skill.

You didn’t need a degree in research to look this stuff up. You had to read the website.

Anyone who didn’t take the time to do at least that, who bought the game blind on just the name, I don’t have a whole lot of sympathy for.

AND when Anet released ascended gear, because people weren’t happy, Anet offered refunds to players, even though they owned the game for six months.

Anyone who buys a game without doing research and was entitled to a refund anyway shouldn’t have that much to complain about.

Behellagh.1468:

Vayne.8563:

Behellagh.1468:

Vayne.8563:

But the information about what was going to be in this game wasn’t hidden in the bottom draw of a filing cabinet somewhere.

LMAO! That’s exactly what I was thinking of when I typed that.

I wonder how many get the reference.

I don’t. Going to see if google is friendly.

edit: well, it can’t be about leopard skin prints so Hitchhikers?

Behellagh.1468:

Vayne.8563:

LMAO! That’s exactly what I was thinking of when I typed that.

I wonder how many get the reference.

I was going to add the comment but you beat me to it…..

tl;dr OP

In the end, yet another good bye thread expecting GW1 in GW2…