Guild Wars 2

I approve +1

(15 char)

i want to wear female armor version on male

Bojoo.7819:

i want to wear female armor version on male

LOL.

Ohoni.6057:

I’ve seen this trending lately and it’s pretty relevant to the argument… nsfw:
https://twitter.com/yesallwomen/status/510516783686877184

Yeah, that’s the sort of hyperbolic argument that completely destroys any credibility you might have on the topic. For one, it’s over the top. The female equivalent would be one of those shoestring thongs, the kind that is a shoestring on both sides, and I haven’t yet seen one of those in any game. If he’d just been wearing a speedo then that would have been more fair, and I have seen outfits along those lines in games.

The second reason is because in real life, on average, women do show more skin than men. Sorry, but it’s true. Women are more likely to wear skirts than men are to wear shorts, more likely to leave arms bare, or have a deeper neckline or exposed back. So while there should be plenty of options for a more modest look, and in GW2 there are dozens, on average there should be more skin on female costumes than on male, and that’s not sexist, it’s just reflective of realistic fashion trends.

No and no.

For the first argument, just google “Tera”, and that’s just the first game that springs to mind. There are more, very many more. You’ve either somehow managed not to play or see any of them, or spectacularly failed (or choose not) to notice. GW2 isn’t quite as bad, but it could still do better. A good number of the female armours (especially light) are verging on trashy over sexy. Some don’t just verge (anyone remember the name of the bumcrack pants?).

For the second argument… again, you’ve either spectacularly failed to notice, or choose not to notice, the choice of clothes of many men out in the real world. Bare arms? Lots. Especially the type of guys who spend any time at all in a gym. Low collar to show off chest (muscle)? Check. Tight clothes to show off fit form? Check. Short pants? Check. Tight pants? Check. The relative percentage of skin may be slightly lower, but probably by a lot less than you assume. If it can be fashion for guys to walk around with their pants halfway down their backside to show off underwear (also sagging), then your point of realistic fashion trends is invalid.

And even if the real world involves women showing a little more skin on average, it may not be a bad idea to wonder why, and if there is some sexism or sexist expectation involved there? And if that real world standard is in some part sexist, does that mean whe should copy it blindly to a fantasy world and normalise it? Or is that an opportunity for a fantasy world to be better than the real world?

I’m not preaching for GW2 to be a feminist beacon, but a selectively sexist post like yours makes me realise that even a fantasy world could do with a better balanced fashion outlet.

I’d like for the game to have great armour ranging from trashy on to sexy, from there to attractively covered, to somewhat conservative to covered almost completely. I’d like for all of these choices to be visually appealing, and I’d like them to be more or less equal for both genders.

That way we can all dress in a style we’re comfortable with and still have pretty armour to look at. Currently the choices for women are mainly “mostly naked” or “wearing a garbage bag”, and those for men mostly “covered in something nondescript” or “metal, metal EVERYWHERE”.

Skimpy, attractive male armour would be a good start.

Bojoo.7819:

i want to wear female armor version on male

And I often want to wear the male version on my female.

Particularly with the upcoming halloween outfit, I hate that my guys, chars and asura are going to get some unique looking goat legs while my girls are stuck with high heals. The vigil light armor is a slick looking muscle shirt on the guys, but more like a sports bra on the ladies. Phalanx armor is the most egregious discrepancy, imo, with full body coverage for guys and a boob window + mini skirt and garter on the ladies.

Fundamentally I don’t have a problem with skimpy armor for girls or for guys (and hell yeah lets have some more skimpy guy armor!), what I really want is the two sexes to have a similar look. I get that gendered fashion is a reality, but there’s a difference between reasonable and gratuitous discrepancies. If a set of armor is fully covering on the male version, it shouldn’t be showing a bunch of skin on the female version.

Lady Elvea.2847:

That way we can all dress in a style we’re comfortable with and still have pretty armour to look at. Currently the choices for women are mainly “mostly naked” or “wearing a garbage bag”, and those for men mostly “covered in something nondescript” or “metal, metal EVERYWHERE”.

Skimpy, attractive male armour would be a good start.

Thank you for saying this. I really believe the part I bolded here is what’s most vital; that we can dress as we want, depending on our preferences.

I get irritated with the people who act like how others dress is going to destroy their gameplay experience. As if they are the center of the MMO universe.

I demand less male skirts and less skimpy female armour! I want everyone armored and no one to look sexy in the slightest!

Labjax.2465:

Lady Elvea.2847:

That way we can all dress in a style we’re comfortable with and still have pretty armour to look at. Currently the choices for women are mainly “mostly naked” or “wearing a garbage bag”, and those for men mostly “covered in something nondescript” or “metal, metal EVERYWHERE”.

Skimpy, attractive male armour would be a good start.

Thank you for saying this. I really believe the part I bolded here is what’s most vital; that we can dress as we want, depending on our preferences.

I get irritated with the people who act like how others dress is going to destroy their gameplay experience. As if they are the center of the MMO universe.

IKR?

My personal rule is that, as a female with video game physiology, I should try picturing myself wearing it. If I can’t picture myself in it, in public, without getting harrassed, then it’s not a good style for my characters to wear. Surprisingly many options in GW2 fail this test. That’s part taste, part lack in variety. A lot of the slightly less skimpy outfits somehow also fall into the dull range, and some of those that cover more skin come with convenient circle designs to overly accentuate certain bodyparts anyway as a form of decoration.

That doesn’t mean those armours are bad per se, or should go, just that the existing armours aren’t as diverse, creative or appealing as they could be.

I’m fine with other people wearing them. I mean, if I eyeroll at my screen or use it as a secret age/gender indication… who’ll know but me?

Maybe I should do a GW2 fashion police blog while we wait for that hawt half-naked male armour to appear in game. >.>

Just let the male characters wear the female versions of the outfits. Problem solved. Those that want skimpy outfits for their make characters now have them.

Lady Elvea.2847:

IKR?

My personal rule is that, as a female with video game physiology, I should try picturing myself wearing it. If I can’t picture myself in it, in public, without getting harrassed, then it’s not a good style for my characters to wear. Surprisingly many options in GW2 fail this test. That’s part taste, part lack in variety. A lot of the slightly less skimpy outfits somehow also fall into the dull range, and some of those that cover more skin come with convenient circle designs to overly accentuate certain bodyparts anyway as a form of decoration.

That doesn’t mean those armours are bad per se, or should go, just that the existing armours aren’t as diverse, creative or appealing as they could be.

I’m fine with other people wearing them. I mean, if I eyeroll at my screen or use it as a secret age/gender indication… who’ll know but me?

Maybe I should do a GW2 fashion police blog while we wait for that hawt half-naked male armour to appear in game. >.>

Not gonna lie, I’m a male and I like skimpy female armor. I also like tasteful-but-aesthetically-pleasing armor as well though. Or what one might call “sexy.”

And I like BA-looking male armor, too.

For me, the bottom line is more of an artistic one. I like stuff that is pleasing to the eye most of all. Sometimes I care more about the feel of my character’s presentation and sometimes I care more about the look itself.

Maybe you should lol. Sounds like fun.

A work around would be to give Chest a hidable option (this state seems to remove the contribution to PvP armour) atm if I go topless in PvP then because the game wants me to wear a shirt I lose armour value

Cloth wearers don’t have access to Gladiator armour and I’m sure all the medium wearers must eventually want to take their trench coats off.

Free us from these silk prisons!

Coulter.2315:

A work around would be to give Chest a hidable option (this state seems to remove the contribution to PvP armour) atm if I go topless in PvP then because the game wants me to wear a shirt I lose armour value

Cloth wearers don’t have access to Gladiator armour and I’m sure all the medium wearers must eventually want to take their trench coats off.

Free us from these silk prisons!

Wouldn’t we just end up with a lot of female characters in their bikinis/bras?

mondello.2940:

I think the whole idea that female characters have skimpier armour than guys is unfair tbh. I think there should be an option where no matter what gender your playing as you can choose between the female look and the more male look for every piece of armour that has a difference between male and females.
For example: the winged armour set on guys looks so boring and drab, but it looks amazing on girls. The same with the pheonix set.

If the human male got the same skin appearance as a female human i would change genders in an instant.

Ayrilana.1396:

Just let the male characters wear the female versions of the outfits. Problem solved. Those that want skimpy outfits for their make characters now have them.

^This! +1! <3

Could you imagine living in Tyria? Everyone has a perfect face and body with skimpy clothes and a story of heroism behind them. Everyone would be so horned up I’d be surprised if the Asura didn’t capitalize on some way to exploit it by playing match-maker.

Anyway, I’ve never been one to care how people both in real life or in a game dress. Make your characters look how you want them to look. If it’s extremely revealing, good for you, yay skin! If it’s extremely conservative, good for you, yay clothes! If it’s inbetween, you get the picture. The more options we have available the better imo and the people who take these things seriously by saying there are too many revealing female armors or that it’s demeaning need to relax (: No one that has a good head on their shoulders will take what they see in a video game and apply it to real life.

It’s kind of funny to me how most of the people who complain about female armors being too revealing are men and that women are actually the ones USING those revealing armors.

Dear Balthazar, please don’t let Anet waste development time on making ugly skimpy male armor…

…well unless it’s the tattoo armor from GW1. That was pretty cool.

“I demand” brushed it off right there.

I thought quoting it twice would make it clear what I was posting the exaggerated images in response to. Hope the emphasis helps clear it up.

It doesn’t make your point any better, even the exploitative games you showed did not feature female costumes equivalent to the male one you showed. They were skimpy, yes, but none has the dental floss thong or “bandaid over the business” that would be equivalent to what that guy was wearing. As I said, if he were wearing that costume with a more tasteful speedo then it would mostly correspond to plenty of existing games, but that version pushes it beyond.

For the second argument… again, you’ve either spectacularly failed to notice, or choose not to notice, the choice of clothes of many men out in the real world. Bare arms? Lots. Especially the type of guys who spend any time at all in a gym. Low collar to show off chest (muscle)? Check. Tight clothes to show off fit form? Check. Short pants? Check. Tight pants? Check. The relative percentage of skin may be slightly lower, but probably by a lot less than you assume.

I agree that some men choose to dress that way, and this game does include options along those lines, but my point was that in terms of balance, more women choose to wear more revealing clothes than men do, so it makes sense for the same trend to appear in media portrayals.

And even if the real world involves women showing a little more skin on average, it may not be a bad idea to wonder why, and if there is some sexism or sexist expectation involved there? And if that real world standard is in some part sexist, does that mean whe should copy it blindly to a fantasy world and normalise it? Or is that an opportunity for a fantasy world to be better than the real world?

That would make me wonder why you believe that sexy is somehow “worse” than not sexy.

I’d like for the game to have great armour ranging from trashy on to sexy, from there to attractively covered, to somewhat conservative to covered almost completely. I’d like for all of these choices to be visually appealing, and I’d like them to be more or less equal for both genders.

And so they are in this game, at least relative to real world fashion trends.

Currently the choices for women are mainly “mostly naked” or “wearing a garbage bag”, and those for men mostly “covered in something nondescript” or “metal, metal EVERYWHERE”.

You need to check out one of the armor galleries, you clearly aren’t aware of all the options available. If there are looks you’d like to see that you don’t see, then it’s great to suggest them, but don’t try to make this out as some grand unfairness that they owe you different than what you’re seeing. Everyone has options they’d like to see made, your wishes aren’t more special than theirs.

Just let the male characters wear the female versions of the outfits. Problem solved. Those that want skimpy outfits for their make characters now have them.

You do understand that reshaping the female clothing models to fit on the male bodies would be as much work as creating an entirely new set of armor, right? I mean if they just ported them over without editing then they’d end up clipping mostly inside the large male models.

Lady Elvea.2847:

Labjax.2465:

Lady Elvea.2847:

That way we can all dress in a style we’re comfortable with and still have pretty armour to look at. Currently the choices for women are mainly “mostly naked” or “wearing a garbage bag”, and those for men mostly “covered in something nondescript” or “metal, metal EVERYWHERE”.

Skimpy, attractive male armour would be a good start.

Thank you for saying this. I really believe the part I bolded here is what’s most vital; that we can dress as we want, depending on our preferences.

I get irritated with the people who act like how others dress is going to destroy their gameplay experience. As if they are the center of the MMO universe.

IKR?

My personal rule is that, as a female with video game physiology, I should try picturing myself wearing it. If I can’t picture myself in it, in public, without getting harrassed, then it’s not a good style for my characters to wear. Surprisingly many options in GW2 fail this test. That’s part taste, part lack in variety. A lot of the slightly less skimpy outfits somehow also fall into the dull range, and some of those that cover more skin come with convenient circle designs to overly accentuate certain bodyparts anyway as a form of decoration.

That doesn’t mean those armours are bad per se, or should go, just that the existing armours aren’t as diverse, creative or appealing as they could be.

I’m fine with other people wearing them. I mean, if I eyeroll at my screen or use it as a secret age/gender indication… who’ll know but me?

Maybe I should do a GW2 fashion police blog while we wait for that hawt half-naked male armour to appear in game. >.>

Do the blog, I’ll be your first fangirl.

I’m a guy, but just for you I’ll be a fangirl. XD
Honestly though, I’m curious how would that go.

Ah, this thread again. I don’t have a problem with ‘skimpy’ armour for anyone, but I disagree with the view that there needs to be complete equality in the appearance of male and female gear. It’s impractical and seems a bit petty.

Imo, what really matters is the overall aesthetic, not how much skin is or isn’t shown.

I want more skimpy armor for both males and females.

Whoever wants a skimpy male armor, should preview the new Lich outfit. Your male character with be barechested, and he will also get lovely faun legs and hooves. It does not get nastier than that

As was said of Mithra, I want this to apply to GW2 for guys:

“No matter how much an item says its ‘pants,’ they are not pants.”

Except for Charr. Charr need MFing pants, not skirts. And notches for their tails. Grr.

Ohoni.6057:

I agree that some men choose to dress that way, […] but […] more women choose to wear more revealing clothes than men do, so it makes sense for the same trend to appear in media portrayals.

Some? No. Many. You’re choosing not to notice… or happen to live in an area where men dress more conservatively. Summer? Skin everywhere across the board.

And GW2 is a fantasy world, not a medium for the real world.

That would make me wonder why you believe that sexy is somehow “worse” than not sexy.

I don’t think sexy is worse than not sexy. I just think that “sexy” and “showing skin” are not necessarily interchangeable terms. Why do you think that they are or should be? If I can only be sexy by being large degrees of naked, then something may be wrong with real world standards.
And why do you feel GW2 should be an accurate reflection of the real world, balanced or not? If the real world is imbalanced, is it really that odd that some people would like for there to be a fantasy world that’s a little bit better?

I’m not saying the skimpy female sets should go. I’m supporting the case that if women are half naked in game, there should be a decent balance of half naked men. The scales are way off in GW2 and don’t even come close to resembling the real world. What’s so frightening about the idea of skimpy female sets having comparably skimpy male counterparts?

Ohoni.6057:

I’d like for the game to have great armour ranging from trashy on to sexy, from there to attractively covered, to somewhat conservative to covered almost completely. I’d like for all of these choices to be visually appealing, and I’d like them to be more or less equal for both genders.

And so they are in this game, at least relative to real world fashion trends.

No. They’re really not, as many others have pointed out here as well. You’ve said nothing that could even remotely unhinge that point. Repeating your claim like a mantra won’t make it so.

Ohoni.6057:

You need to check out one of the armor galleries, you clearly aren’t aware of all the options available. If there are looks you’d like to see that you don’t see, then it’s great to suggest them, but don’t try to make this out as some grand unfairness that they owe you different than what you’re seeing. Everyone has options they’d like to see made, your wishes aren’t more special than theirs.

I check out every new set as soon as it appears. I spend enough time on Dulfy, the wiki, and elsewhere to know my sets and own a significant number of them too. I’m a collector. This is how I know that the choices are so limited. Skins aplenty, but most of them are more of the same.

I don’t have wishes that I consider “more special”, why are you making wild, baseless accusations? I have wishes about GW2, just like everyone else. And like everyone else, I’m free to voice them and make a case here. The fact that I do, and that I disagree with you, does not mean I feel more special. It just means I’m making my case. I could be asking you why you feel so special that you think your (apparent) wish for skin, skin everywhere, is more special than mine, but that would be just as silly a question, because (feeling) special really is no factor here.

I’m supporting a case for more skimpy male armour sets. I don’t play male characters, so I don’t benefit here personally. Nor do I care enough about what others are wearing in game to tell them what they should or should not wear. They’re free to choose… but there needs to be a good range of choices and right now there really isn’t. Nobody owes me anything or should pursue a perfect balance, but we’re free to ask the devs to consider doing it. The fact that the OP used the word demand does not mean that every person here feels entitled to anything.

I am free to question how fair, or unfair, in game standards are. Why do you feel that there is something wrong with questioning the status quo? Why do you feel threatened by the fact that I would question the standard at all?

You’re not making much of a case here, you’re just making a lot of assumptions and mostly you make them about me rather than what I have to say. You’re also off by a mile.
I’m not asking for more choices for myself (as much as I would like some), I’m supporting the case for more choices for others. If I can make a case for a better balance all across the board along the way, awesome. In the end, more armour and more variety means we all win.

What’s wrong with that?

Yoroiookami.3485:

Lady Elvea.2847:

Maybe I should do a GW2 fashion police blog while we wait for that hawt half-naked male armour to appear in game. >.>

Do the blog, I’ll be your first fangirl.

I’m a guy, but just for you I’ll be a fangirl. XD
Honestly though, I’m curious how would that go.

Oh dear, I can’t disappoint my first fangirl now! I’ll go and book a few days off to build a blog now.

Or I’ll just start a thread first and do a test run.

.

Esplen.3940:

.

He’s beautiful!

Oh good gods please no, not unless it is available exclusively to the Charr.

Esplen- 8/10 would wear on my norn mes

Rainment of the lich looks pretty cool but isn’t it an outfit? Which means I can’t use just the chestpiece

Some? No. Many. You’re choosing not to notice… or happen to live in an area where men dress more conservatively. Summer? Skin everywhere across the board.

Sigh. Look, let’s compare like-to-like here. Let’s leave out winter fashions where both sides tend to cover up. In business attire, men still tend to wear full body suits, women sometimes do as well, but more often wear some sort of skirt and/or a lower neckline. In beach attire, men do tend to go fully topless more often than women, but their shorts are almost always more covering than female equivalents. In casual clothing, men wear pants, women wear capris. Men wear knee-length shorts, women wear booty shorts. Men wear tank tops, women wear belly shirts. Yes, some women do wear clothing that shows no more skin than men, but the plenty who don’t wear noticeably less.

I don’t think sexy is worse than not sexy. I just think that “sexy” and “showing skin” are not necessarily interchangeable terms. Why do you think that they are or should be? If I can only be sexy by being large degrees of naked, then something may be wrong with real world standards.

Why do you believe there is something wrong with nudity or partial nudity being considered sexy?

And why do you feel GW2 should be an accurate reflection of the real world, balanced or not? If the real world is imbalanced, is it really that odd that some people would like for there to be a fantasy world that’s a little bit better?

I can see why some would want that, I just don’t see why they should get it? Why should the game conform to your skewed view of how the world “should” be, rather than reflecting how it is?

I’m not saying the skimpy female sets should go. I’m supporting the case that if women are half naked in game, there should be a decent balance of half naked men. The scales are way off in GW2 and don’t even come close to resembling the real world. What’s so frightening about the idea of skimpy female sets having comparably skimpy male counterparts?

There’s nothing “scary” about it, I just doubt the demand is actually there. I don’t mean the demand for implementing it, I mean the demand for actually using it. Since men do not tend to dress that way in the real world, I doubt they would dress that way in the game. If they did waste time making an equal number of skin-showing male looks as they have female, I doubt those costumes would see nearly as much use by the actual players, so it would be a massive waste of their resources they they could instead be using designing outfits that more players would actually want to use.

I don’t have wishes that I consider “more special”, why are you making wild, baseless accusations? I have wishes about GW2, just like everyone else. And like everyone else, I’m free to voice them and make a case here.

Because you aren’t making your case in the form of “I would prefer to see X,” you’re makign the case along the lines that “there is an imbalance,” or “they should do X.” You’re trying to present your desires as some sort of fulfillment of justice, rather than as just the fulfillment of your desires.

Also, I have never expressed a “wish for skin” of any sort, just making the point that the status quo is fine. If they want to show less female skin in future models, or more male skin, then that’s fine too, but they have no compelling need to do so.

You’re not making much of a case here, you’re just making a lot of assumptions and mostly you make them about me rather than what I have to say. You’re also off by a mile.
I’m not asking for more choices for myself (as much as I would like some), I’m supporting the case for more choices for others. If I can make a case for a better balance all across the board along the way, awesome. In the end, more armour and more variety means we all win.

That’s kind of the problem, you aren’t even asking for something you yourself see a need for, you’re asking for something that you assume other people need, when in fact they might not care. You’re much better off pushing for things where at least you have a need for them. If a large enough mass of players really want to use these options then it would be a good idea for ANet to provide them, but people who do not care to use these options either way just confuse the issue.

Don’t really care about the armors, but find the use of the term “demand” in the title of this thread and indication of poor manners and self-entitlement.

If I were a Dev, I might make sure this never happens just because of that.

I am not just going out there on the whole supporting women’s rights and such. But being honest there should be more armor sets that show more of the male toons.

I have a sylvari that I changed to a woman because the male armor blocks all of the cool glow effects those characters have.

My male norns would look like kitten barbarians (at least I try to achieve this) But a ton of the sets cover them up again.

I really think the best way to go about this. Would be to have content created by the community. (Just like Dota2.) It could be voted on and then priced in the gem store.

Not saying that the art team from Anet is dropping the ball. I mean at a point I only stuck around because the art was awesome. But it is less frequent than the community is looking for.

Another suggestion would be to go the route Skyrim went. And allow a few options for a visual look from a armor set.

In any case it can be added to the collections for look/style. Or even sold on the Trading Post after being discovered or crafted.

Ohoni.6057:

Sigh. Look, let’s compare like-to-like here. Let’s leave out winter fashions where both sides tend to cover up. In business attire, men still tend to wear full body suits, women sometimes do as well, but more often wear some sort of skirt and/or a lower neckline. In beach attire, men do tend to go fully topless more often than women, but their shorts are almost always more covering than female equivalents. In casual clothing, men wear pants, women wear capris. Men wear knee-length shorts, women wear booty shorts. Men wear tank tops, women wear belly shirts. Yes, some women do wear clothing that shows no more skin than men, but the plenty who don’t wear noticeably less.

I can see why some would want that, I just don’t see why they should get it? Why should the game conform to your skewed view of how the world “should” be, rather than reflecting how it is?

The better question is, why the kitten not? I mean, seriously? Where in “this is a fantasy world where murder is an expected part of existing and everybody can come back from dying infinite number of times” does the brain think, “This is supposed to reflect reality.”

Ohoni.6057:

That’s kind of the problem, you aren’t even asking for something you yourself see a need for, you’re asking for something that you assume other people need, when in fact they might not care. You’re much better off pushing for things where at least you have a need for them. If a large enough mass of players really want to use these options then it would be a good idea for ANet to provide them, but people who do not care to use these options either way just confuse the issue.

Since when do you need to be personally invested in wanting something to support it? Some of us just like the idea of people having fair/equal options. We’re not saying, “Delete all other types of dress,” unlike you and your “realistic dress” that you’re pushing on other people.

“Oh, this thread again.”

Yes. This thread again. As often and as long as it takes for things to get finally equal.
Now that this is out of the way…

Ohoni, you in particular don’t seem to understand the problem. This isn’t a “No skimpy female armour at all!” campaign. It’s an “equal armour for everyone” thing. As in, everyone should have roughly the same number of options in “skimpy” and “not skimpy”. Nobody wants to take your precious battle thongs away from you completely, we’d just like more non-skimpy options. Hell, my cloth characters have been wearing their fair share of ridiculously skimpy outfits, and I liked them, but it was one hell of a lot harder to find the non-skimpy outfits for them than the sexy ones. kitten armour for my dudes? No problem. kitten armour for my ladies (preferably without boobplate)? Well, there are a few options…
(Edit: Those kittens should read bad…butt. kitten filter.)

It’s not that bad in GW2, I admit that. But this game does have its ridiculous armour sets, and way more female ones than male ones. I did a post on Tumblr about this exact thing a while back, and I actually used GW2 as an example, so here you go, maybe you’ll see what we are talking about.

I also read someone say “skin is skin, male or female”, and that’s just… no. There is a huge difference between power fantasy and sexual fantasy. Usually, men get the former treatment, women the latter. Case in point: Red Sonja. BikiniArmorBattleDamage has a post that illustrates this better than I could explain.

That said, I’d like some more covering armour sets for female characters in the future, particularly for light armour. And maybe a few tiny changes to existing ones, but I guess that’s too much to ask. Like the cutouts in the priory armour. They don’t make a lick of sense, and the robes look pretty identical on male and female characters, but the women HAVE to show some skin, for some reason.

(Also, how is it that some people feel like we want to take something away from them? No. Not at all. We just want something different for a change. But god forbid a game doesn’t cater to your white, male, heterosexual world for once… but that’s opening a whole new can of worms, and to be fair, since GW2 has a character customisation option, it’s rather innocent in that regard. The armour point still stands, though.)

Ugh, please no. There’s not enough new armors coming in, don’t waste any of them on skimpy male clothing. Or skimpy female clothing. In fact don’t spare the cloth/leather/plate for either gender. Unless we’re going to Elona where it’s a desert. Then it might make sense.

Scynte.1340:

Charr could stand to get more ‘skimpy’ armor sets, in general. They definitely need more leg armors with subligaria (for all armor classes), at the very least. Pants luck ridiculous on charr. Tights are even worse.

I’m with you on that. I want my Charr to wear more “savage” looking armor that reveals the beautiful fur and patterns I got to design them with.

Skimpy Charr make it happen!

I demand the ability to fight in just a towel.
That way when I beat someone, I can just dance over them in a towel.
The psychological damage there is just icing on the cake.

The better question is, why the kitten not? I mean, seriously? Where in “this is a fantasy world where murder is an expected part of existing and everybody can come back from dying infinite number of times” does the brain think, “This is supposed to reflect reality.”

Because that’s how art works. It’s a reflection of the real world in which things are changed when there is reason to change them, and left alone when there’s no reason to change them. Fantasy means that anything can happen, not that everything should.

Since when do you need to be personally invested in wanting something to support it? Some of us just like the idea of people having fair/equal options.

But again, there’s a good reason not to, in that every armor model added to the game represents a lot of work on their part, so they want some reasonable expectation that people will wear them. If ten people actually want to wear them and ninety people “support them” then that gives ANet the impression that 100 people want to wear the armor, and then they make it, and only ten people wear it, making it a waste of time for all involved that they could have spent working on something else. Advocate the things you want to use, let other people advocate the things they want to use.

We’re not saying, “Delete all other types of dress,” unlike you and your “realistic dress” that you’re pushing on other people.

When did I ever suggest anything remotely along the lines of removing existing armors from the game?

Ohoni, you in particular don’t seem to understand the problem. This isn’t a “No skimpy female armour at all!” campaign. It’s an “equal armour for everyone” thing.

Yes, but that would either mean “less female skimpy armor,” or “more male skimpy armor,” and I don’t believe either position is justified by actual demand.

Nobody wants to take your precious battle thongs away from you completely, we’d just like more non-skimpy options.

First, I don’t wear battle thongs. Second, this thread has nothing to do with having more non-skimpy options for female characters, it’s about giving MORE skimpy options, to males in this case, and I’m skeptical that there is a market for it. If you do want to see more non-skimpy options for either male or female characters, then that would be a separate discussion. As I’ve said, I would like to see them add the town clothes shorts as playable armor, or adding a skirt that is a bit longer than the current starter one, more like the Magician one without the built in leggings, but I have the taste to ask for those things as personal preference, rather than trying to make some sort of Cause out of it.

That said, of the existing light armors, which tend to be the skimpiest, only about 5 out of 37 armors (not counting gem store ones) show a scandalous amount of leg, and only about 8-12 out of 37 have scandalous cleavage, so with mixing and matching there should be plenty of modest options to choose from. If you’re talking heavy, only a handful of armors show any skin. I think there’s a certain level of confirmation bias at play because out of all the options available a lot of players choose the more scandalous options.

I also read someone say “skin is skin, male or female”, and that’s just… no. There is a huge difference between power fantasy and sexual fantasy.

No, that is a modern societal construct, used to justify complaining about female sexuality while still allowing male sexuality to be available for the female gaze.

They don’t make a lick of sense, and the robes look pretty identical on male and female characters, but the women HAVE to show some skin, for some reason.

Look up “female suit” on google images. Now while some of those cuts are equivalent to what a male would wear in terms of skin coverage, plenty them show a bit of ankle, or a lower neckline than any men’s suit would wear. The female clothing in Gw2 tends to display a bit more skin because female clothing tends to display a bit more skin, end of story..

(Also, how is it that some people feel like we want to take something away from them? No. Not at all. We just want something different for a change. But god forbid a game doesn’t cater to your white, male, heterosexual world for once… but that’s opening a whole new can of worms, and to be fair, since GW2 has a character customisation option, it’s rather innocent in that regard. The armour point still stands, though.)

See, it’s off topic nonsense like this that makes it hard to take you seriously. You clearly just have an axe to grind in general, and are misapply it here.

I totally agree!
WE WANT more sexy armors for men!!
I just dislike how people running around with their Battle bikinis warriors and other kittenty armor combos while we cannot do the same for male characters.
I would love to create a sexy, handsome armor for mine male characters..
But ehh... the game history has always been generated-armor that all female should always show more skin than men.
Big plus if female characters shows legs and cleavages. -_-

Ohoni.6057:

Because that’s how art works. It’s a reflection of the real world in which things are changed when there is reason to change them, and left alone when there’s no reason to change them. Fantasy means that anything can happen, not that everything should.

But again, there’s a good reason not to, in that every armor model added to the game represents a lot of work on their part, so they want some reasonable expectation that people will wear them. If ten people actually want to wear them and ninety people “support them” then that gives ANet the impression that 100 people want to wear the armor, and then they make it, and only ten people wear it, making it a waste of time for all involved that they could have spent working on something else. Advocate the things you want to use, let other people advocate the things they want to use.

When did I ever suggest anything remotely along the lines of removing existing armors from the game?

I didn’t say you advocated for removing armors. I’m saying you’re pushing for having armor that fits your cultural ideas of “what is realistic,” i.e. you’re pushing it on other people. You are not saying, “I want armors that look realistic.” You’re saying, “All armors should reflect the way people dress in my culture.”

Anyway, unless you want to strip away the political nonsense and be honest about your personal opinions on the matter, I am done talking to you. It’s just not worth my time stripping away your smoke and mirrors, so that you can deflect and deny what your real motivations are.

Ohoni, you just refuse to listen, do you? You go about this with a “I am happy with the status quo, so you should be happy, too!” mentality. By that logic, we should still happily allow slavery and oppress half the population because we have kittens.
(Edit: Seriously? I can’t even use the technical term for female sexual organs now? The heck?)

Also, are you… did you just actually use the term female gaze in the very same way we use male gaze? You do realise that this doesn’t work? Sure, there are things that cater to the “female gaze”, like Chris Hemsworth running around shirtless in Thor and Thor 2. BUT. Those instances are few and far between. Generally, media serves the male gaze, not both, let alone the female gaze alone. And Thor? Yeah, he isn’t purposely sexy during a fight. Black Widow? Yeah, she is purposely sexy during a fight. Not. The. Same. Thing.
You are literally complaining about me derailing the discussion while turning my point upside down and doing a fair bit of derailing yourself. I didn’t even mention the whole “male gaze” thing. I said there’s a difference between a power fantasy and a sexual fantasy, which you apparently refuse to understand. Did you actually look at any of those links? There is a giant difference between displaying the (usually male) body as a symbol of power and displaying the (usually female) body as a symbol of desire and sexuality.
I have nothing against women (and men) being sexy. But that should not be a priority in a game about fighting dragons.

“The female clothing in Gw2 tends to display a bit more skin because female clothing tends to display a bit more skin, end of story..” That is neither 100% true nor the “end of story”, just because you say so. I’m a jeans-and-t-shirt person. I do not show more skin than my dad, my brother, my neighbours… Neither do 90% of the women I know. And since we are playing THAT game… can I just remind you that there’s plenty of women who cover themselves for religious or cultural reasons? So, on average, there’s about as much female skin exposed on this planet than male skin at any given time. By your logic, GW2 should reflect that. Equal covering for everyone! Realism!

And about the “Art is a reflection of the real world” bit: So… why are you playing a fantasy game, then? Shouldn’t a game like, dunno, Tax Simulator be your cup of tea?

(By the by, this thread has started out as a demand for more skimpy male armour, but by no means did I push it into the general “equal armour for everyone” territory. That happened way before I came along.)

If its Gladiator armor or Elonan style armor in the future, maybe. As long as it doesnt turn into a dragqueen striptease modern kind of thing. This is not the Sims.

Elona… mhmm…
Sadly, I think they will save that particular style for when we actually get to Elona. Maybe. So 2017 I suppose.

More skimpy male armors please!

Also, can we please please please have light armor that doesn’t make my humanoid girls look like streetwalkers? Or full-length dresses that actually go all the way around without ridiculous slits? I had to grind Arah and TA just to get a dress that was a full skirt, and not all of my characters like wearing skulls and plants!

Ohoni.6057:

Look up “female suit” on google images. Now while some of those cuts are equivalent to what a male would wear in terms of skin coverage, plenty them show a bit of ankle, or a lower neckline than any men’s suit would wear. The female clothing in Gw2 tends to display a bit more skin because female clothing tends to display a bit more skin, end of story..

(Also, how is it that some people feel like we want to take something away from them? No. Not at all. We just want something different for a change. But god forbid a game doesn’t cater to your white, male, heterosexual world for once… but that’s opening a whole new can of worms, and to be fair, since GW2 has a character customisation option, it’s rather innocent in that regard. The armour point still stands, though.)

See, it’s off topic nonsense like this that makes it hard to take you seriously. You clearly just have an axe to grind in general, and are misapply it here.

It’s not just “a bit more skin.” Also, it is your perception from where ever you’re from that women tend to show more skin than men. I will take a walk down the street to my local park tomorrow, when it’ll be about 80 degrees, and show you a whole sea of men in thongs. It’s not even unusual for my area. If you want to argue that’s not a market, you might want to check out the guild Rough Trade Gaming Community. They’d probably argue otherwise.

Even if you’re not a heterosexual male, your argument is coming off that way.

Also, I am a professional artist. Art does not, in fact, have to imitate life in a realistic fashion. Or maybe you haven’t noticed that we have plant and cat people walking around in the Tyrian universe. Perhaps our fashion choices should be a little more egalitarian.

Gonna get heat for this, but this thread is almost as bad threads demanding they can dye their character underwear. Pointless and useless.

Having more cosmetic options in a heavily cosmetics focused game is pointless and useless folks! We can all go home now!!

Srs mode: sexy gear for everyone pls.

Okay, but if you get skimpy male armor we need to be able to have beer guts.

Male Lich costume is more skimpy for males than females.
/thread

Red Queen.7915:

“Oh, this thread again.”

Yes. This thread again. As often and as long as it takes for things to get finally equal.

So you also support more male iconics/biconics right?

:)

I love quicktime harch….more naked men! I want battle bikinis on the minions! Make it so, developer number 1.

http://youtu.be/z6eTTaY1a6M?t=20s

I didn’t say you advocated for removing armors. I’m saying you’re pushing for having armor that fits your cultural ideas of “what is realistic,”

No, you actually said, in literal words, “We’re not saying, “Delete all other types of dress,” unlike you and your “realistic dress” that you’re pushing on other people.”

I never said anything about deleting anything.

You are not saying, “I want armors that look realistic.” You’re saying, “All armors should reflect the way people dress in my culture.”

Not exactly, I’m just saying that it’s not a “Problem” if they aren’t balanced, when realisty is not balanced along those lines. It’d be like if the males had more short hair cuts and fewer long hair cuts than female models, it’s not objectively “good” or “bad” either way, although individuals would certainly have preferences.

You’re free to say that it would be your preference for them to have more skimpy male or less skimpy female armors that are currently available, so long as you don’t try to canonize your argument by making some case about it being “wrong” that it isn’t the way you want it.

Ohoni, you just refuse to listen, do you? You go about this with a “I am happy with the status quo, so you should be happy, too!” mentality. By that logic, we should still happily allow slavery and oppress half the population because we have kittens.
(Edit: Seriously? I can’t even use the technical term for female sexual organs now? The heck?)

Yes, all of this right here is entirely relevant to the topic at hand. Why would you ever think otherwise?

Also, are you… did you just actually use the term female gaze in the very same way we use male gaze? You do realise that this doesn’t work? Sure, there are things that cater to the “female gaze”, like Chris Hemsworth running around shirtless in Thor and Thor 2. BUT. Those instances are few and far between. Generally, media serves the male gaze, not both, let alone the female gaze alone. And Thor? Yeah, he isn’t purposely sexy during a fight. Black Widow? Yeah, she is purposely sexy during a fight. Not. The. Same. Thing.

It’s not exactly balanced yet, but there are plenty of movies out there that are entirely about the female gaze, and most movies include at least a few moments devoted to it. I don’t see why you’re so scared by the idea that things are becoming more equal.

I said there’s a difference between a power fantasy and a sexual fantasy, which you apparently refuse to understand. Did you actually look at any of those links? There is a giant difference between displaying the (usually male) body as a symbol of power and displaying the (usually female) body as a symbol of desire and sexuality.

We’re talking about GW2 here. In GW2, a female scharacter in Gladiator armor is balancing sexual fantasy and power fantasy and a male character in gladiator armor is also balancing sexual fantasy and power fantasy. Same/same. I mean it’s fair to say that male Acolyte armor is less sexy than female acolyte armor, but there are some options out there.

“The female clothing in Gw2 tends to display a bit more skin because female clothing tends to display a bit more skin, end of story..” That is neither 100% true nor the “end of story”, just because you say so. I’m a jeans-and-t-shirt person. I do not show more skin than my dad, my brother, my neighbours… Neither do 90% of the women I know. And since we are playing THAT game… can I just remind you that there’s plenty of women who cover themselves for religious or cultural reasons? So, on average, there’s about as much female skin exposed on this planet than male skin at any given time. By your logic, GW2 should reflect that. Equal covering for everyone! Realism!

And you have the option of wearing Citadel of Flame or Sorrow’s Embrace armor if you like. But no, on average there is a lot more female skin showing than male, even if we do consider Muslim countries (where the men still cover most of their bodies aside from the face).

It’s not just “a bit more skin.” Also, it is your perception from where ever you’re from that women tend to show more skin than men. I will take a walk down the street to my local park tomorrow, when it’ll be about 80 degrees, and show you a whole sea of men in thongs. It’s not even unusual for my area. If you want to argue that’s not a market, you might want to check out the guild Rough Trade Gaming Community. They’d probably argue otherwise.

I wouldn’t argue that there’s no market for it, but there’s not enough of one. If there was then GW2 would provide for it, because they want to make money.