Guild Wars 2

Unfortunately, this is a complaint post. If you hate complaint posts, please skip this thread.

Before I start: I’ve played about 2,000 hours of Guild Wars; it’s basically my favorite game. Seeing as this is the sequel to Guild Wars, I thought I’d see more Guild Wars elements in the game… Instead, I feel kind of betrayed by ArenaNet. I feel like Guild Wars 2 was created to cater only to gamers coming from other games and casuals. I’ve actually gone back and started playing Guild Wars again…

Now that I’ve played Guild Wars 2 enough, I feel like I have a stronger opinion as to why I don’t like it and why I will no longer be playing it unless massive changes are made.

Here are the reasons why Guild Wars 2 doesn’t make me happy and I just don’t like playing it.

Game design

• Transmutation – Every time you transmute an item, it is destroyed. Why not create a system where you can store all of the skins you’ve unlocked so players can use stones to apply those skins over armor?

• Crafting is useless – There is currently no practical reason to level crafting other than to make legendaries… This system suffers from the same flaws its World of Warcraft counterpart contains (crafting useless items to gain levels, useless items take up inventory space, etc.) Why this system was even put in place? This leads me to another point…

• Too many currencies – Currently, you can purchase armor and weapons through gold, karma, crafting, tokens and drops in the world. Why? This is an overly complicated system clearly designed to make players grind. Instead… Guild Wars 2 should have no “crafting” or “token” system and should use the tried and true loot system in Guild Wars, where you need to use gold, crafting materials and at times one other item to create pieces of armor and weapons. This helps other issues that I will discuss later.

• Armor rarity disparity – The ArenaNet team promised before launch that all armor would be created equal. Instead, we now have masterwork, rare, and exotic armor. They all have different stats. This means if you have level 80 exotic armor, you are better equipped (albeit marginally) than someone with level 80 masterwork armor. For a game that is designed with a horizontal scaling system, this also doesn’t make much sense.

• Magic Find armor – There is no reason to include Magic Find items in this game. One of the biggest flaws of this system is that players need to sacrifice effectiveness to gather drops. Why this design? Is it to create a challenge for players who want to farm? When players equip Magic Find armor in dungeons, they are detrimental to the team. It baffles me that ArenaNet thought this was a good idea.

• Guild system – Having multiple guilds is such a huge mistake. Although I understand why being in multiple guilds makes sense, belonging to more than one guild ruins the feeling of being loyal. Instead, have a system where you can join a PvE or PvP guild. If you join a PvX guild, it occupies both PvE and PvP categories. This way you can stay loyal to a guild but still have a purpose for being in it! And don’t say just use it the way you want to, this is a stupid argument.

Combat system

• No depth – This is, for me, the dealbreaker by far. While I can see how this is a step up from most games, it is definitely a step down from Guild Wars. I don’t mind playing a game where the graphics and story suck but the gameplay is great. I don’t feel that this is the case with Guild Wars 2.

• No depth – too many weapons, not enough useful skills – This is a problem that is most apparent with the elementalist class, where you can wield many weapons with many different affixes that mostly do the same thing with slightly different effects. Why not limit the amount of weapons each class can use, and then allow relevant skills to be swapped within the primary skill bar, including skills that significantly change gameplay? This brings two benefits: players can now arrange their skills however they want, and players have a real choice in gameplay. Also, why can a warrior use a bow? Why can a ranger use a sword? Why can a necro use an axe? None of these design choices make sense. Why is a torch a weapon? This is so infuriating.

• No depth – traits are poorly designed Traits may as well be renamed to attributes. The only real reason to use traits is to boost certain stats. Although some trait lines are useful, the current system makes it hard for developers to make all traits useful and viable in real builds. This system should instead have been created to increase the effectiveness of the skills your character uses… just like in Guild Wars and in World of Warcraft.

• Combat sucks – I don’t think I can put into words how much I hate this combat system. During the BWE and through most of 1-79, the combat didn’t feel so bad. It felt like it was designed to make agroing a lot of creatures easy. Once I hit 80… it all went downhill. Effects are all over the place. Scrolling combat text doesn’t give you enough information to understand what is happening on the screen. The agro system makes absolutely no sense; want to take a mob off of somebody on your team? Just hit it with everything you’ve got and good luck chasing it while your teammate runs away. Want to learn how to make your character more survivable in explorable? Just boost your toughness and vitality trait lines and pray you don’t get one shot by some AoE effect. Want to bring a skill set catered to a specific dungeon? Can’t; every dungeon has multiple phases where mobs place different effects on you, so you need to constantly change your skills to approach certain situations. Want to swap skill sets then? Can’t; manually build your skills every time. WTF IS THIS?

• Combat sucks – dodging – Dodging is basically just a way to become invulnerable to all situational damage for two seconds while moving 33% faster to a new location. Because of this feature and ArenaNet’s stance on positional awareness, it’s necessary to constantly move in combat. Not even medieval sword fights contain so much movement. Although I understand the mechanic of ‘use dodges wisely’ and ‘know when to take damage and when to dodge’, the system still feels half-baked to me. Sometimes dodging works, sometimes it doesn’t. Not to mention it looks absolutely kitten to watch an entire team strafing around a mob, throwing themselves to the side to dodge invisible AoE attacks.

• Combat sucks – downed system – The downed system a la Borderlands also annoys the kitten out of me. When you go down, the camera zooms up to your character for no apparent reason and the entire screen becomes a shade of red. WHY!? The downed system removes the whole vision that ArenaNet originally had that ‘everyone must fend for themselves’ because although this works in open PvE, in dungeons and PvP it does not. When a player goes down, they are now a complete detriment to the entire team. Most of the time once a player is down they will bleed out or die from heavy hitting AoE attacks or hard hitting skills. Although a very skilled team can take advantage of this system to stay in combat, with PuGs this fails entirely as people have grown to fend for themselves and rather have their teammates run back from waypoints (more on that later).

• Combat sucks – minor annoyances – Why do my skills have a 3 second cooldown when they fail to cast? Why do skills interrupt other skills, rather than queue up to be cast? If all players are equally viable, why aren’t all healing skills the same across the board?

End-game and dungeons

• Dungeons – loot system gives you garbage – Currently, there is no real reason to run dungeons other than to farm tokens for armor and weapons. This would be okay, if dungeons weren’t incredibly boring and unrewarding. I have never received a drop in a dungeon that has made me excited. It honestly feels more like a chore than a game. If a crafting system like the one I mentioned earlier was put in place, all players could run dungeons of their choice and still be rewarded for playing through them without having to wait until the end to receive tokens.

• Dungeons – waypoints kill the challenge – WHY are there waypoints inside of a dungeon? Explorable mode is supposed to be extremely hard; it’s the ONLY endgame. Currently, you can run back to a boss every time you die because it is more lucrative to run back. Instead, once players are dead they should stay dead until a team member revives them. If a team wipes, they must start the dungeon all over. This is the only way to create an effective dungeon system that encourages teamplay and smarter game mechanics.

• Dungeons – enemies aren’t challenging enough; instead have too much life – What’s with these enemies that take fifteen minutes to down? I don’t want to spend half of the dungeon strafing around a boss trying to take it down. I rather wipe, run back using your flawed waypoint system, and take on the challenge again until it can be mastered.

• End-game – world bosses are uninteresting – Seeing the Shatterer during the press events made me extremely excited to see these huge hulking behemoths ravaging through Tyria. Now that I’ve played through all of the world bosses many times, their appeal wears off. These bosses should be interesting! Have them raid a town, have them fly around, maybe have them swipe their hands and send all players flying back. There is SO Much that can be done with these battles and this is a big chance that ArenaNet can use to prove that they can make a truly cinematic experience.

Story – The story is the worst part of the game. The world content is great, but I will never play the story again. It’s simply abysmal.

Although I pretty much dislike everything about this game, I wish you [ArenaNet] the best and I will be checking out Guild Wars 2 from time to time as it gets patched. It just sucks to think you guys spent four to five years developing this game and yet so many game design flaws slipped through the cracks.

TL;DR: I’m a former Guild Wars player and Guild Wars 2 doesn’t make me happy. ArenaNet has sold me out. Will most likely not be coming back to this game.

I don’t mean to be offensive but all I really got from each of your complaints is that you are not a fantastic player who has also been playing with frustratingly bad players, so it’s no wonder you’ve had a bad time.

I’m sorry you don’t like the game, but I for one am glad we simply didn’t get a GW1 clone. I loved GW1, I played it for years, but by now I am ready for something new and fresh. I love all of the aspects you complained about, except for magic find armour.

Hopefully GW1 will be kept up and alive for years to come so you can continue playing it. GW1 was a great game., but please don’t moan at Anet for trying new things and being a little innovating , I support things advancing and moving forwards. GW2 is a great game but it seems as though you’re looking through clouded glasses because you expected it to be the same as GW1.

Don’t agree on all of it, do agree on some of it.

But I have to say you went to agreat deal of trouble writing it all down.

I find it valuable feedback as a whole, but I fear many will not.

Maybe i’ll come back to discuss some details, but for now I’ll just say that I’m pretty disapointed myself, not just in the same things you list.

SabreWalrus.8647:

I don’t mean to be offensive but all I really got from each of your complaints is that you are not a fantastic player who has also been playing with frustratingly bad players, so it’s no wonder you’ve had a bad time.

I’m sorry you don’t like the game, but I for one am glad we simply didn’t get a GW1 clone. I loved GW1, I played it for years, but by now I am ready for something new and fresh. I love all of the aspects you complained about, except for magic find armour.

Hopefully GW1 will be kept up and alive for years to come so you can continue playing it. GW1 was a great game., but please don’t moan at Anet for trying new things and being a little innovating , I support things advancing and moving forwards. GW2 is a great game but it seems as though you’re looking through clouded glasses because you expected it to be the same as GW1.

Sorry, this is not an excuse. I’ve been able to complete all end-game dungeons, primary story line, and before quitting I was just about to have all of the tokens required to complete my CoE armor set. I would not consider myself a bad player not even by a stretch. Theorycrafter? No. Bad player? Not even close.

MistyMountains.3751:

inb4Locked…cus apparently if u have any negative things about GW to say those threads get locked lol

Misty, that post about the disk install and such was a bit weird to be honest
It sounded basically like a technical problem wrapped in a content complaint, or something…

Good write up and definitely addresses many of the problems the player base is experiencing. I’m sure Arena Net is aware of all of them and is working on improving where they came up short. I find that playing this game like a traditional MMORPG tends to force people into this disappointed state. If you play this game in moderation, it is much more fun, seemingly at least.

Kimbald.2697:

MistyMountains.3751:

inb4Locked…cus apparently if u have any negative things about GW to say those threads get locked lol

Misty, that post about the disk install and such was a bit weird to be honest
It sounded basically like a technical problem wrapped in a content complaint, or something…

lol I just found it odd that a disc install would go so slowly compared to a download+ install, still though not really a good reason to lock a thread in a “general discussion” , also had a “post” deleted a few mins ago for being “frivalious” like seriously? a bit too much forum moderating if u ask me lol, on subject this post does hit on a few things but I think the person is going overboard and I actually enjoyed the story up to about 60 when Trahearn enters the picture lol

I strongly agree with your first two points and the one about magic find.

Crafting is something you put effort into, you should be rewarded for it besides ultimately being able to make a legendary. Right now it punishes the player with fairly high material costs, not good.

About the skins it would be a lot more practical if we had a sort of wardrobe with armor and weapon skins we’ve collected throughout the game, instead of having to manage with transfering looks between items you will be having to store in an inventory. A game that did this very well in my opinion is dcuo where you permanently acquired a style after equiping an item once.

But then I storngly disagree with the combat critique.
Me I love the dynamic so long as it does not devolve into a zergy clusterkitten. The skills themselves may not be as convulated but the way you use them in a dynamic fight is so rich, wether it’s reacting to changing combat conditions or timing it just right I find the combat to never disapoint.
I should note I’ve only played mesmer and ranger in depht, maybe some classes are more about simply mashing skills whenever they are off cooldown, but I can’t judge that without trying.

If you guys wanna see the downvote train, take a look at the Reddit link:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/124hen/opinion_i_really_just_dont_have_fun_playing_this/

Agree with a lot of the points you make, certainly in the first post. I don’t think combat sucks and like the new movement ideas. Also I think the open world PvE areas are largely excellent.

What it comes down to for me is that I don’t think Arenanet really designed much of the game within their own comfort zone, but rather were trying to second guess what compromises they would have to make to attract the WoW/casual crowd. Almost all the problems that I see in the game design (crafting, itemisation, drops, difficulty, levels etc) seem to arise in areas that are directly derived from mainstream MMOs, rather than being thought out to fit into the game.

I, too, agree that the game was centered around a business model to appeal to players coming from other MMOs…

It’s funny, because I simply disagree with the majority of what you said. It’s fine, opinions differ, no problem with that. Just letting you know, most of your solutions would kill the game for me, and I think they’re really poor (e.g. having to start a dungeon over if you wipe).

The only thing I really agree on is crafting, it is almost completely pointless.

-Transmutation
Interesting idea, would be cool, but I don’t really think this is a problem to begin with. It’s not a negative, so much as it is a missed opportunity for a positive.

-Too Many Currencies
Disagree entirely. Multiple currencies allows for diversity. If everything were purchased through gold for example, nothing would prevent gold buyers from getting Legendaries with no issue, and other things like that. It rewards people who play certain things (badges of honor for WvWers) with currency applicable to what they played. Now, having more to do with each currency to make them useful, that’s something that should be discussed.

-Armor Rarity Disparity
Getting Exotics takes less than a week if you’re a casual and only mildly competent player. It’s not an issue in the slightest.

-Magic Find armor
It’s for people who love farming. Sure, it sacrifices stats. What do you expect? Giving the magic find on top of all the stats you want? What’s the downside, and what’s the point of even having a magic find system to begin with if so? Having magic find allows for people to get cheap gear at 80 that will help them get more money to get all the exotics/skins they want. It takes nothing away and at least gives options to some people, therefore, in my opinion, it’s only positive.

-No depth 1
This is personal taste. Some people prefer simplicity, and it’s not something that only casuals prefer. Simplicity makes the game easier to balance. Plus, there actually is depth. You confuse depth with volume, there’s much depth (many potential good builds, weapon swapping adds to the depth, over a dozen unique skills per class, the ability to swap on the fly etc.). There may not be hundreds of skills per class, sure, and I’m thankful for that.

-No depth 2
You have issues here with why certain classes can use certain weapons… My question is, why shouldn’t they? What’s the problem with them using these weapons? It may not fit your stereotype of what a Necro should use when he’s using an axe, but perhaps that’s simply because you have a irrational and useless preconception of what this class should be. Also I don’t get your suggestion, and I read it multiple times, sorry, I’m tired. Play a different class, my weapons are dramatically different as both a Mesmer and a Necro, each one is an entirely different beast and they all have their place (except maybe the axe for a Necro).

-No Depth 3
Why rename it? A trait is a characteristic that someone possesses, this fits fine. Besides, it’s just a name.

-Combat sucks 1
Effects are pretty much the same no matter what level you are. I’m not going to address each individual complaint, because most of them are fluff that aren’t actually issues. You should never have 1 build that fits every single situation, that would be stupid and would make builds pointless. Builds that excel in certain situations is the way to go. Some adaptability by having two weapon sets with dramatically different skills is in place, you’ll always have the tools to get through even though it will be extremely rough. Also, you perhaps have to change one slot skill per dungeon, I jump back and forth between a condition remover and a skill that revives people… And I think it’s cool that I can easily do that.

-Combat Sucks 2
I think the dodge system is great and adds a new level of depth to the game. I think it’s cool seeing an AoE coming down and people quickly rolling away to escape it. I disagree 100%.

-Combat Sucks 3
Now we’re talking about minor visual things? It’s to bring the focus into your character (the zooming) and to give the impression that you’re dying, as well, the sudden change makes your mind instantly aware of the state you’re in (downed state) as opposed to it making very few changes to your UI and you not realizing it for a little while. Also, ask anyone would they rather run dungeons with or without the downed system… See how people answer.

-Combat Sucks 4
Agreed, except for healing skills. Healing skills being diverse keeps things interesting. It also allows certain classes to play off their strengths (Mesmer for example) with their healing skills.

-Dungeons 1
I agree to a minor extent. Getting an Onyx Lodestone for example makes me really happy, 1g baby.

-Dungeons 2
NO, NO NO NO NO NO. This would make the game an absolute nightmare for anyone trying to grind for a certain set. I’ve done dozens of runs through dungeons, if this were in place, I would quit this game the moment it was added. If you want to be a little more reasonable with this, try this: Instead of having to redo hour long dungeons, instead, once a boss battle in a dungeon is entered, add a barrier to the entry to the battle. Make it so people who have died and respawned cannot re-enter the fight. But, if anything, add more waypoints. Let’s kill the tedium, running back and forth sucks, re-doing stuff sucks. Let’s be smart about it.

Also no, it’s not the only end game. Farming events in Orr, farming items in Frostgorge Sound, world bosses, SPvP, and WvW, and finally explorable dungeons are all end game activities.

-Dungeons 3
Partly agree and not. I do hate the outrageous HP on some mobs, but at the same time it can make things more enjoyable.

-End Game
They’re uninteresting to an extent, I think Claw of Jormag is fun enough. However, I think the issue is less with interest and more with how engaged you are. You feel useless and you feel perfectly safe in Tequatl and Shatterer, you feel as though you can leave it on auto attack and what away. That needs to changed, and it was mostly fixed during the Claw of Jormag fight (fear, that weird effect that kills you, having to focus on crystals)

-Story
It’s not good compared to a single player game. It’s way better than the overwhelming majority of MMO’s.

Also, sorry for typos, I’m eager to get back to playing. I just felt I had to share my opinion. This is because my opinion is better than yours—I can’t be wrong (sarcasm, no infraction please).

So uh, I played maplestory and Dragon’s Nest before this, don’t know anything about GW1 and one of my friend’s dragged me here. But as a person who chooses games based of their combat system, I’d beg to differ on that trait. Lol. I’ll play you any day on any fighting game, and out of all MMOs I’ve ever watched and played (Dragon’s Nest was pretty good) GW2 has one of the most active fighting systems I’ve seen. Finally, dodging matters—not evasion. Finally when you land a hit it hits, eff accuracy when I’m directly making contact with you. Of course, it’s not perfect, but it’s no where below good. I do agree that enemies and other factors that affect combat need fixing. And having more skills would be great—don’t care about weapon variety, heck, I’d like to have more weapons if I could but having more weapon skills to trade out or more utility skills to buy would be cool too. I really find it hard that you do not like anything about this game. I mean, idk, I play a game of tetris and I have fun. But sometimes people get too much hyped and get disappointed. I’m sorry your experience wasn’t that great and hope you find something more suitable to you. glhf

And for the armor, at each level of rarity, the stats are generally the same (only diff is what they include pow/prec/critdmg or pow/tough/vit, etc). They are equal and you have taken Anet’s words out of context. Heck, read other threads on how much people have complained about equality in this game. Read other complaint threads and add on to their list. I’m not defending gw2 as the best game of all time, but be open to some change. GW2 was made for a lot of flexibility for players of all kinds. If you want something traditional then try something else; but don’t complain in this threads please. Go to a review site or something. I’m saying this not to tell you “oh, im a fan boy blah blah blah go reroll or qq and quit”. No. I’m telling you this because seriously, what in the world do you want us to do? Hop on your train, agree with you and leave? Threads in the gw2 forum are supposed to HELP people. If you need help on how to see the good in this game—tell the forum. Otherwise please take all this negative energy somewhere else.

Transmutation – because this is linked to actual $$$. What does suck though is that when you have two sets of armor and only one helm from your storyline that you like, you only get to use it on one set. But, any other game, I don’t get to use it at all.

Crafting is useless – You make exotics with crafting, you’ll need a full set. If I made a game the system would be nothing like this… I’d put the “role” back in RP personally.

Too many currencies – Eh… not really. They could add 10 more, I don’t care. There is a larger problem with currencies and a market that promotes bots etc, and it is a problem that I could easily fix with design, but most all modern MMOs seem to have it.

Armor rarity disparity – I don’t see the problem here, spend 8g and get a full set of exotic? It should be better than masterwork right?

Magic Find armor – is interesting, and you’re right. Not sure what’s going on here in the decision. But I don’t actually care.

Guild system – You’re right, it is a mistake being able to be in multiple guilds. “Guilds” and the term have been eroded by other games from what they once were. This has been a downhill slope.

No depth – too many weapons, not enough useful skills – You want them to have the choice but not have the choice? I like the way they did it personally, it adds alot of depth and strategy… there are even some great builds being hashed out now in this point of the game.

No depth – traits are poorly designed – eh… not really. Traits matter a whole lot to my class and every alt I have played.

Combat sucks – The scrolling combat log is definitely broken, and you can’t even have a chat window and the log up at the same time! Being able to min / max every situation is not something that appeals to me like it does you.

Combat sucks – dodging – I like this personally. It lets people who know more about the game win “better”.

Combat sucks – downed system – I think this is for SPvP, not really anything else… but there are some good points to it… players don’t get “insta gibbed” per se.

Combat sucks – minor annoyances – This is because of “skill”. Think about it a bit!

I wish you luck in your quest!

Why don’t you go make your own game instead of demanding others to change theirs to fit your vision?

Gaslov.9164:

Why don’t you go make your own game instead of demanding others to change theirs to fit your vision?

he’s not demanding, he’s stating his views on why he thinks it’s not good.
The fact that he says he won’t play it unless changes are made, is not a demand. it’s a conclusion he came to for himself.

Even if I didn’t agree with a single point made in his point, I still would find his post more usefull than yours to be honest.

Argue with the points, don’t blatantly attack the person.

Gaslov.9164:

Why don’t you go make your own game instead of demanding others to change theirs to fit your vision?

I’m not demanding ArenaNet to do anything. I’m just saying why I don’t like the game and where I think they can improve. But it’s funny you mention that, I’m currently working on a 2D RPG (mostly 2D because I don’t have the resources or a sizable development team).

Thank you for your responses guys…… even if I agree with very little that has been said as counter arguments. Feels a lot more than blatant attacks than anything.

(Sincerely) It’s obvious you really wanted to like this game otherwise you wouldn’t have put so much effort into this post. Maybe it’s just not for you, maybe you had it in your head it would be one certain way and when it’s not. This is not the game for you.

(Sincerely) I hope you enjoy whatever game you move to next.

Had to channel my inner Elcor there.

Is someone putting a gun to your head and forcing you to play GW2?

no.

Then play something else.

moirweyn.9872:

(Sincerely) It’s obvious you really wanted to like this game otherwise you wouldn’t have put so much effort into this post. Maybe it’s just not for you, maybe you had it in your head it would be one certain way and when it’s not. This is not the game for you.

(Sincerely) I hope you enjoy whatever game you move to next.

Had to channel my inner Elcor there.

Been playing games for over eight years… I’m 22 now. Maybe it’s time to throw in the towel. I did have a certain vision for Guild Wars 2 and I said I’d quit for a while if I didn’t like it… similarly, BF3, ME3, SWTOR, D3 all gave me some cheap thrills before becoming incredibly stale to me. I think it’s time to move on. I’m thinking of just developing my own games (given that I do love other games made by smaller development teams, like MC, CS:GO and BL2).

Echo.7634:

Is someone putting a gun to your head and forcing you to play GW2?

no.

Then play something else.

(Sarcastically) Thank you for your constructive post.

I’m just trying to like the game, is all. Haven’t had trouble playing it, I find the game to be incredibly easy. I’m just simply not having fun…

dimgl.4786:

Echo.7634:

Is someone putting a gun to your head and forcing you to play GW2?

no.

Then play something else.

(Sarcastically) Thank you for your constructive post.

I’m just trying to like the game, is all. Haven’t had trouble playing it, I find the game to be incredibly easy. I’m just simply not having fun…

Then… don’t play it. That IS the solution here. We aren’t going to convince you otherwise because you’ve clearly already convinced yourself. Play another game and move on.

(I disagree with just about everything you said, especially the combat bits)

dimgl.4786:

moirweyn.9872:

Stuff I said earlier…

Been playing games for over eight years… I’m 22 now. Maybe it’s time to throw in the towel. I did have a certain vision for Guild Wars 2… similarly, BF3, ME3, SWTOR, D3 all gave me some cheap thrills before becoming incredibly stale to me. I think it’s time to move on. I’m thinking of just starting to develop my own games (given that I do love other games made by smaller development teams, like MC, CS:GO and BL2).

I have felt that way a few times myself. I have wondered why I play games, there’s no real benefit from them aside from wasting time sitting at the PC when I could be doing…um…something else to waste my time. I mean I work, spend time with the kids and the wife, do all the stuff I need to get done and when my work is done it’s time for having fun (oh i been working in the coal mine going down down…sorry).

Maybe this isn’t the game style for you, maybe gaming has had it’s time in the sun and now it’s time to find a new time waster. No matter what it is, as long as it makes you happy and relieves the stress of the day, go for it and I hope you have fun doing it.

No inner Elcor needed on that one.

Definitely a very well-written OP. I may not agree to all of what was said there but, I can’t deny a lot of it. Hopefully, Devs take note of the points raised in the OP and act accordingly.

I played over 6000 hours of GW1 and I was disappointed at the beta events. I did feel I wasted my money in pre-purchasing the game.

And yet, I decided to play the game anyway upon release since I bought it and why not give it another shot.

1) GW2 is very different than GW1. This is true for sure, but it isn’t by definition a bad thing. What can be annoying is that GW2 is made by the same company and you might have the expectation that certain things that were really awesome in GW1 are just not so awesome in GW2. But then there are things GW2 has that GW1 never did have.

2) GW2 is a game with a persistent world and as such is a true MMO. GW1 wasn’t. It makes for a different type of game. I know it can be annoying but the truth is that it really is a different type of game. Therefore some of our expectations as GW1 players were simply unrealistic.

3) I don’t think GW2 is a grind game. Getting exotics through dungeoneering wasn’t that hard to and with the updated rewards it’s really doable for almost everyone.

4) The personal story line. Ok there I do agree that it’s particularly poorly written. The convo scripts are hideous and the voice acting doesn’t make it better. Perhaps I was spoiled by SWTOR (for all its mistakes, the story lines were very good and the voice acting as well), but in the end I just skip through them most of the time even if it’s a new story line arc I never did before. It hurts my brain to listen to that tripe. On the upside it’s just a small part of the game. So it’s ok for me, albeit a missed opportunity.

I remember Anet saying that they heard that people complained about all the wall of text story telling in GW1. I will take the stand and apologise for complaining about this, but I had no idea that they had something planned that was actually worse.

Oh well no game is perfect.

5) Crafting. Also here I must agree. Any other game I played I was a crafter. Even if it wasn’t worth it in the sense of making money with it, it was still fun. I don’t find the system here fun. It seems they took most of the bad elements from the Aion crafting system and added their own twist to it. It’s the first game with crafting where I actually haven’t gotten into crafting. Others probably disagree but for me it’s a crap system since it’s not very transparent and the whole discovery system is annoying to me as well.

I mean I’ll leave it at that because there is way too much you posted for one thread but mostly I don’t have the same issues as you do and I like GW2 for what it does offer, more than not liking it for what it doesn’t offer. As long as that’s the case I’ll be ok.

Gehenna.3625:

I played over 6000 hours of GW1 and I was disappointed at the beta events. I did feel I wasted my money in pre-purchasing the game.

And yet, I decided to play the game anyway upon release since I bought it and why not give it another shot.

1) GW2 is very different than GW1. This is true for sure, but it isn’t by definition a bad thing. What can be annoying is that GW2 is made by the same company and you might have the expectation that certain things that were really awesome in GW1 are just not so awesome in GW2. But then there are things GW2 has that GW1 never did have.

2) GW2 is a game with a persistent world and as such is a true MMO. GW1 wasn’t. It makes for a different type of game. I know it can be annoying but the truth is that it really is a different type of game. Therefore some of our expectations as GW1 players were simply unrealistic.

3) I don’t think GW2 is a grind game. Getting exotics through dungeoneering wasn’t that hard to and with the updated rewards it’s really doable for almost everyone.

4) The personal story line. Ok there I do agree that it’s particularly poorly written. The convo scripts are hideous and the voice acting doesn’t make it better. Perhaps I was spoiled by SWTOR (for all its mistakes, the story lines were very good and the voice acting as well), but in the end I just skip through them most of the time even if it’s a new story line arc I never did before. It hurts my brain to listen to that tripe. On the upside it’s just a small part of the game. So it’s ok for me, albeit a missed opportunity.

I remember Anet saying that they heard that people complained about all the wall of text story telling in GW1. I will take the stand and apologise for complaining about this, but I had no idea that they had something planned that was actually worse.

Oh well no game is perfect.

5) Crafting. Also here I must agree. Any other game I played I was a crafter. Even if it wasn’t worth it in the sense of making money with it, it was still fun. I don’t find the system here fun. It seems they took most of the bad elements from the Aion crafting system and added their own twist to it. It’s the first game with crafting where I actually haven’t gotten into crafting. Others probably disagree but for me it’s a crap system since it’s not very transparent and the whole discovery system is annoying to me as well.

I mean I’ll leave it at that because there is way too much you posted for one thread but mostly I don’t have the same issues as you do and I like GW2 for what it does offer, more than not liking it for what it doesn’t offer. As long as that’s the case I’ll be ok.

Thank you for your post. Yeah the crafting system is a little bit of a let down compared to other games… most notably Guild Wars.

This games just needs to be more rewarding IMO.

if they took out waypoints in dungeons they would be undoable the way they currently are

he’s not demanding, he’s stating his views on why he thinks it’s not good.
The fact that he says he won’t play it unless changes are made, is not a demand. it’s a conclusion he came to for himself.

Even if I didn’t agree with a single point made in his point, I still would find his post more usefull than yours to be honest.

Argue with the points, don’t blatantly attack the person.

Strawman? This isn’t an attack on the person. Those of us who have been around awhile have grown tired of these types of posts. They come in different forms but all aim at achieving the same goal. In this case, the OP, likely creative himself, wants to create a game but likely does not possess the ability or network necessary to create something to the scale as a commercial grade MMO. So instead, he tries to push his vision of a video game by attempting to gather support from the community for ‘his’ ideas in hopes that he can, in a way, bully the host game company into making changes to match his vision.

The fact of the matter is this: these posts never achieve those changes no matter the outcry, how well written, or how well supported. All they accomplish is making the host game appear inadequate and give the wrong impression that the “community” disapproves of the game. Internet forums are heavily weighted in complaints (instead of praise, which is usually the majority opinion). It gets old and my advice to you youngins who believe you can do better is this: go do better. Don’t complain about what you have currently. Buy a game to play it, not change it. Meanwhile, go create your vision. But don’t be surprised that after putting your heart and soul into something, that your forums are flooded by others who want you to change your game to meet their vision.

@Gaslov – Your comments have nothing to do with the topics. White Knights are just as destructive to discussion as unreasoned haters are. If you disagree with a point made by the op, just state your grounds of disagreement in a polite way. That’s what discussions are all about and this is a discussion forum. You may think that you are being helpful, but in reality you are just trying to kill discussion that doesn’t agree with your point of view and push the thread towards a flame war.

“Those of us who have been around awhile have grown tired of these types of posts.” surely summarises your real intentions. Just accept that disccusions don’t need your seal of approval or to reflect your POV.

Gaslov.9164:

he’s not demanding, he’s stating his views on why he thinks it’s not good.
The fact that he says he won’t play it unless changes are made, is not a demand. it’s a conclusion he came to for himself.

Even if I didn’t agree with a single point made in his point, I still would find his post more usefull than yours to be honest.

Argue with the points, don’t blatantly attack the person.

Strawman? This isn’t an attack on the person. Those of us who have been around awhile have grown tired of these types of posts. They come in different forms but all aim at achieving the same goal. In this case, the OP, likely creative himself, wants to create a game but likely does not possess the ability or network necessary to create something to the scale as a commercial grade MMO. So instead, he tries to push his vision of a video game by attempting to gather support from the community for ‘his’ ideas in hopes that he can, in a way, bully the host game company into making changes to match his vision.

The fact of the matter is this: these posts never achieve those changes no matter the outcry, how well written, or how well supported. All they accomplish is making the host game appear inadequate and give the wrong impression that the “community” disapproves of the game. Internet forums are heavily weighted in complaints (instead of praise, which is usually the majority opinion). It gets old and my advice to you youngins who believe you can do better is this: go do better. Don’t complain about what you have currently. Buy a game to play it, not change it. Meanwhile, go create your vision. But don’t be surprised that after putting your heart and soul into something, that your forums are flooded by others who want you to change your game to meet their vision.

OP here, well said. Maybe game design and game programming are careers I should pursue.

Although I do think many things about Guild Wars 2 should be different, it is not my intention to bully the development team. My intention is to make aware things I would like to see implemented and changed because I’m simply just not having fun.

I will do as many loyal fans have advised on this thread and be leaving Guild Wars 2.

However, one thing that you may not understand is that my post is not directed at the community. I could give three kitten what the community thinks. I’m not trying to sign a petition to considerably change the game. My post is directed at ArenaNet and I currently have no form of contacting them other than through these forums. It’s to make them aware of issues that bother me as a long-time Guild Wars player. It may sound like I feel entitled for change, but this is not the case. I am happy many players enjoy Guild Wars 2 in its current state and maybe there are some things ArenaNet can change that will not affect other players very much and will encourage me to relog. Maybe this game will never change.

The point is that yes, you are right I’d like to begin to develop my own video games, and no, I am not “trying to bully the development team by gathering support from the community”. I am trying to tell ArenaNet why I am leaving and what they can do to win me back as a customer.

I’ll just chime in on a few points here.

- I don’t mind the myriad of currency systems. Gold is a base currency, used for the open market, and Gems are the cash shop currency. Karma is a currency that’s (supposed to be) proportional to your time spent playing. Dungeon tokens apply to dungeons, WvWvW tokens apply to WvWvW.

The only thing I mind about these systems is how messily some of them are implemented. Gold and Gems are alright, and it appears as though Anet spent a metric crapton of time tuning this. However, Karma isn’t really rewarded proportionally to your time spent playing, as it basically is only granted for Events. Dungeon tokens are irritating because you’re forced to run a single dungeon multiple times over to get a particular set, but the flip abuse case is everyone just runs CoF because you can farm that the fastest. WvWvW currency is only granted for enemy player kills, meaning that you better hope you get a Cannon and a high pop server or you’ll be starved forever.

- The core issue with combat in my opinion is customization. There are plenty of editable buttons all over the place, but none of them really do much of anything. Traits other than the T3 ones are painfully boring (%CDR, %Damage, %Mitigation…zzz) and the stats end up being a detriment to themselves after Lv20 due to exponential base stat scaling. Utility skills are all over the map, with a handful being mildly interesting, some being useful but extremely boring (Signets in particular) and the rest just being skill point traps. Elites are caught in this really annoying situation where they’re not powerful enough to feel Elite, but are also too powerful to have their cooldowns slashed.

The only real difference to be had is Weapon Swapping. Yes, I’m even throwing the Ranger, and Engineer profession specific skills out the window because those basically just amount to another set of crappier Utility skills. Weapon Swapping is at least mildly meaningful because you can shift to archetypes like Melee AoE, Melee Single, Ranged AoE, Ranged Single, etc. But even then…these particular archetypes usually aren’t interesting at all. Far too many abilities feel like they’re supposed to be used on rotation, and the ones that don’t either have absurdly long cooldowns that prevent the abilities from properly fulfilling their purpose, or they’re so situational that you may never get a chance to push the button.

Aldracity.9463:

I’ll just chime in on a few points here.

- I don’t mind the myriad of currency systems. Gold is a base currency, used for the open market, and Gems are the cash shop currency. Karma is a currency that’s (supposed to be) proportional to your time spent playing. Dungeon tokens apply to dungeons, WvWvW tokens apply to WvWvW.

The only thing I mind about these systems is how messily some of them are implemented. Gold and Gems are alright, and it appears as though Anet spent a metric crapton of time tuning this. However, Karma isn’t really rewarded proportionally to your time spent playing, as it basically is only granted for Events. Dungeon tokens are irritating because you’re forced to run a single dungeon multiple times over to get a particular set, but the flip abuse case is everyone just runs CoF because you can farm that the fastest. WvWvW currency is only granted for enemy player kills, meaning that you better hope you get a Cannon and a high pop server or you’ll be starved forever.

- The core issue with combat in my opinion is customization. There are plenty of editable buttons all over the place, but none of them really do much of anything. Traits other than the T3 ones are painfully boring (%CDR, %Damage, %Mitigation…zzz) and the stats end up being a detriment to themselves after Lv20 due to exponential base stat scaling. Utility skills are all over the map, with a handful being mildly interesting, some being useful but extremely boring (Signets in particular) and the rest just being skill point traps. Elites are caught in this really annoying situation where they’re not powerful enough to feel Elite, but are also too powerful to have their cooldowns slashed.

The only real difference to be had is Weapon Swapping. Yes, I’m even throwing the Ranger, and Engineer profession specific skills out the window because those basically just amount to another set of crappier Utility skills. Weapon Swapping is at least mildly meaningful because you can shift to archetypes like Melee AoE, Melee Single, Ranged AoE, Ranged Single, etc. But even then…these particular archetypes usually aren’t interesting at all. Far too many abilities feel like they’re supposed to be used on rotation, and the ones that don’t either have absurdly long cooldowns that prevent the abilities from properly fulfilling their purpose, or they’re so situational that you may never get a chance to push the button.

I guess I just couldn’t put it correctly in the OP, but this is EXACTLY what I mean about the combat and skill system lacking depth.

I find this game extremely boring too.
I’m a solo player and I always enjoyed being guildless, but due to the pathetic LFG system of this game, that kinda prevents me to do anything except pve grinding.
I haven’t reached lvl 80, I’m stucked at 75 since about a month, so I have no idea how PvP and WvW are, yet I am not eager to find it out.

Ahhh, if only I could trade my GW2 box with a fist of pot…anyone?

Crona.8951:

I find this game extremely boring too.
I’m a solo player and I always enjoyed being guildless, but due to the pathetic LFG system of this game, that kinda prevents me to do anything except pve grinding.
I haven’t reached lvl 80, I’m stucked at 75 since about a month, so I have no idea how PvP and WvW are, yet I am not eager to find it out.

Ahhh, if only I could trade my GW2 box with a fist of pot…anyone?

I’m pretty big on PvE and although GW was originally designed to be a PvP centric game, the PvE is what captivated me.

Maybe in the future Guild Wars 2 will become more exciting through content patches and revisions.

Transmutation – Agreed, I should be able to use skins I’ve already acquired.
Crafting – One more option for getting max gear, and/or gain 10 levels per craft. Not useless.
Currencies – Gives the player more options to explore. Not useless.
Armor rarity – You shouldn’t try so hard.
Magic find armor – Should be removed from the game.

Combat system –
Using custom abilities would be nice.
Some traits need adjustments. This goes for any game.
Never had an issue getting aggro. Learn the mechanic.
Nothing wrong with having to change skills. Variety is always welcomed.

Spell Queues – Agreed, abilities should have the option to be queued.

Dungeons – Agreed, many dungeons just aren’t challenging. Increasing hit points only makes it a borefest.

Ive never had an issue looking for a group or being something completely different with the combat system. I think the trait and skill system allows you to customize more how you play and less what buttons you press, which I like.

Yeah I have the same weapon attacks, however I utilize them completely differently. If Im a heavy tank build then i dont move around much, I more or less rely on defenses, healing and the occasional roll to move me away. If im a vigor vigilante who gives all his allies vigor, feeds on endurance and is built to move then my defense is moving..and constantly.

Honestly it seems like you guys are so static on the skillset defining you, that you can not be a certain away unless you have moar skills and different ones..just using them differently for different purposes isnt good enough. The skills are there to do just about anything, you just cant do everything all at once which I like, if you are used to doing everything at once then well…this isnt the game for you. Its built for teams when it gets tough or strategic thinking. My best friend runs around Cursed Shore and Malchors Leap naked with nothing but spirits on her ranger just to prove she can while collecting Ori, she’s found another use for the myriad of skills we have, its not what its in the tooltip but it works.

I dont have a rotation, I use my abilities like a utility belt..Im the kittening batman and I improvise.

Ditton: as a Guardian I will be logging in game to give your suggestions a try. Maybe I am simply reading the tooltips wrong not gathering a good enough group to run dungeons. I’m also having a hell of a hard time getting a competent group to run CoE.

I have to disagree with the greater majority of the OPs points. The original posts display a vast lack of knowledge of a great many things. He has no clue or concept of the business plan, and thus fails to understand simple things such as transmutation.

Based on his comments about the combat system, it appears to me that he failed to grasp his main class, or possibly any classes , even on basic levels.

Honestly, his lack of knowledge or understanding of the game is somewhat embarrassing.

I disagree on many points.

General

• Transmutation – a wholly optional gold sink. I’m all for optional gold sinks.

• Crafting – I personally find crafting fun to level. Crafting is useful for making armor/weapons on demand. At max level, you can change builds and make a whole new set of armor and weapons as you wish.

• Currencies – Different currencies for different purposes. Besides, when you complete events you get BOTH gold and karma. Separating currency keeps different items in different markets. This prevents overdependence on a single currency, and difficulties in pricing and balance.

• Armor disparity – This just makes each armor level more granular. So instead of 1, 2, 3, you have 1.1 (masterwork), 1.2 (rare), 1.3 (exotic). It doesn’t make much of a difference. Just makes armor a little more challenging to obtain.

Combat System

I disagree almost entirely with this section.

• Depth – There is depth. Depth isn’t having a smorgasbord of skills to choose from (as with Guild Wars 1). Depth is about strategizing skill use. Weapon and slot skills are all functional (they serve a particular function). It’s a limited pool, but they serve the needs of the profession. You have to choose weapons and skills over other weapons and skills—you have to sacrifice something to excel in something. That is strategy and depth.

• Dodging – Great mechanic to have. A limited resource that grants you movement and invulnerability for that instance. I have had no problem with dodging working or not working, when it doesn’t work I know it’s my poor timing.

• Downed system – Interesting mechanic. You complain about a player going down being a detriment… So you would rather the player just die immediately? Isn’t that worse? Guild Wars 1 resurrection skills are EXACTLY like players reviving downed players. With the downed system, the downed player can do something about being down, instead of just waiting for a rez.

• Cooldown – Failure to cast is costly, and the failure should be reflected. The exact cooldown is up to balance.

dimgl.4786:

Although I pretty much dislike everything about this game, I wish you [ArenaNet] the best and I will be checking out Guild Wars 2 from time to time as it gets patched. It just sucks to think you guys spent four to five years developing this game and yet so many game design flaws slipped through the cracks.

I don’t think these are game design flaws that “slipped through” at all. They are intentional and strategic. I’m sorry this game does not fit your needs, and I hope you find one that does.

coglin.1496:

I have to disagree with the greater majority of the OPs points. The original posts display a vast lack of knowledge of a great many things. He has no clue or concept of the business plan, and thus fails to understand simple things such as transmutation.

Based on his comments about the combat system, it appears to me that he failed to grasp his main class, or possibly any classes , even on basic levels.

Honestly, his lack of knowledge or understanding of the game is somewhat embarrassing.

Lol yes I know nothing of the game, especially since I’ve been following it since it was first announced during Eye of the north.

Dear OP,

i agree with you on your first post. Until you got to the combat system. For me, the combat system is the ONLY thing that keeps me playing GW2 and not other MMOs. I like 3rd person action games and GW2’s combat is perfect for me as it is a hybrid of RPG and action gameplay, genres i both really enjoy.
I have many gripes with GW2, but the combat system at lvl 80 is not one of them AT ALL. I have nothing but good things to say about combat. All i can say is that it’s a personal preference.

However i strongly agree on the dungeon and open world points you brought up as well. If those concepts were worked on just a little bit and perfected, it would be nice. As current state of the game seems like a good base to build upon it. I’m just hoping they won’t take too long to fix all the things that keep getting broken.

*I really like the idea of having a wardrobe which unlocks different looks as you acquire them.

*Agree that crafting is useless, unless you want to level quickly…which should be the last reason to take up crafting.

*Magic find sucks.

*Story…yeah this isn’t the game to play for story.

*Downed state and waypoints in dungeons aren’t too bad but do contribute to the not-very-fun design of the dungeon encounters.

*Multiple currencies are ok but it would be nice for all dungeons to have a shared currency so you can run different ones for some variety, rather running the same one 23 times for a set.

*Dungeons in general don’t feel rewarding enough but Anet is fixing that so I can’t complain (yet…muahaha!)

*Combat feels ok to me for the most part, but some professions feel a lot more fun than others (which is to be expected, different people will have different tastes), and when a lot of people start zerging the fun disappears.

The only thing that saves Anet and keeps them in business is their no monthly sub.

I’m level 77 or 78 and after going back and finally doing a big world dragon (Sunless) and spending some time in Orr, I have no motivation to play anymore.

I ran all 3 paths of AC explorable, successfully, and found it to be a bland, tedious chore with ZERO reward other than the tokens.

If I’m being asked to farm, repeatedly, for cosmetic items – I’ll just go back to playing WoW and actually feel like I accomplished something in the month I’d play before un-subbing again.