Guild Wars 2

Dynamite.6584:

Haha wow. So many talking as if this is the Messiah of MMOs. As of the chosen people have finally reached their long awaited holy land, where they can finally have FUN and use their SKILLS.

Hilarious.

Why must you scoff at the players who are enjoying Guild Wars 2? They are voicing their opinion on the subject just as you are. Even if in your honest opinion you believe to have run out of content, that does not automatically mean that the game is flawed. Many times now I have read posts explaining that Guild Wars had a fluctuating player base according to content releases. That sounds like just what you’re looking for Dynamite. More things to do.

Signed,
Lalabu

I have 3 level 80 characters, a legendary weapon for my main, all the cultural armor I want, done every dungeon, and I still feel like playing the game for another 500 hours.

Tesena.1075:

There is NO endgame content, what so ever. Nothing. Sure there are dungeons, which is great until you have gotten everything you need. Dungeons alone aint enough, not by far.

Now, why should we have raids? Think…. What is the essential of having raids? what captures the essence of a raid? Raids make people come together to have fun, to fight challenges to become a better player. Raids makes you feel that you’re a part of something bigger, and it improves the guild feature by far.

Why would anyone say no to such a game improvment? Please come with a rational answer.

Comments_____________
- Gear is not an issue, it does not have to be improved by much.
- Not being able to join a guild and raid is a stupid excuse for not having raids at all.
- The Casual player does not NEED to play raids because the difference won’t be that big. Why would the casual player even care, he / she is casual..

There certainly is endgame content. Go WvW. It’s fun. You’re not enjoying it? You’re doing it wrong. Period.

Raids? Nope. They’re idiotic. Cat-herding at its finest. Boring.
And then you bring up that raid gear wouldn’t be that much! better than regular gear..?
Why should it be ANY better than non-raid gear? Hmm?
And what happens when you finish that raid and have your JUST SLIGHTLY! better gear? You want to do it again? Well, obviously, it’ll have to be “harder”, which means “gear check”, which means..

Oh kitten, suddenly we’ve created tiered gear acquisition, we have a gear treadmill. The game is suddenly heading towards massive imbalances in player power and PvE gameplay at the expense of PvP.

That’s not a game I want to play, and that’s not a game I will play. In fact, not having those things is why I’m playing GW2.

You want that garbage? The entirety of the MMO market save GW2 has that for you. Have at it.

Ryth.6518:

I still remember the Dungeon 0/.5 stuff in WoW where there were people who couldn’t even complete a 45 min baron run and these were raiders who were carried in 40 mans.

And I still remember those people who couldn’t finish that stuff being the ones in our raids who’d wind up getting drops because they were a critical class, and then once they had a few they’d jump ship to a bigger raiding guild that already had the rest of the raid geared up, leaving my guild constantly struggling and myself unable to progress because I kept having to show up and re-gear new people.
Yeah awesome fun woo bring it on, nothing like doing all the hard work over and over and never getting anything but frustration out of it.
But I digress, and that was really the least of my problems with that game.

Lalabu.2097:

Why must you scoff at the players who are enjoying Guild Wars 2? They are voicing their opinion on the subject just as you are. Even if in your honest opinion you believe to have run out of content, that does not automatically mean that the game is flawed.

Those of us unhappy or disappointed are scoffing at the other end of the spectrum because given enough time (however much you need varying from person to person) in the end most of you are going to feel the same way we do.

What saddens me the most is that in my opinion (obligatory now days) the game has not yet lived up to it’s full potential.

I only read the OP, not going to read the other 4 pages, and I have to disagree, mostly because it appeared the OP didn’t really appear to know what he was talking about. Most of the OPs complaints appeared to contradict the experiences I hear from most players, as well as my own experiences.

MarzAttakz.9608:

Lalabu.2097:

Why must you scoff at the players who are enjoying Guild Wars 2? They are voicing their opinion on the subject just as you are. Even if in your honest opinion you believe to have run out of content, that does not automatically mean that the game is flawed.

Those of us unhappy or disappointed are scoffing at the other end of the spectrum because given enough time (however much you need varying from person to person) in the end most of you are going to feel the same way we do.

What saddens me the most is that in my opinion (obligatory now days) the game has not yet lived up to it’s full potential.

What saddens me is that we have enough players with such a limited realm of knowledge that they would make such ridiculous claims as this.

At the very least, claim your some sort of psychic. Otherwise, it is just embarrassing ….Your not even capable of guessing my age, much less predicting the enjoyment I will get out of the game.

First he says:

“So buyer’s remorse for me.
But that just means that I’m not coming back for the expansion. "

then he says:

“And no, I can’t say that I’m “never going to play again” since I still hope they actually put some endgame content into the game.”

I am sorry, but I think everyone fell for the troll trick here. He can’t be arguing that there is not enough content, then stating that he wouldn’t buy any xpacks (which would provide more content), followed up by saying he never said he wouldn’t buy more content. Obviously this model student has his priorities correct, troll GW2 forums while paying for classes that he won’t allow himself to learn anything in.

Good luck working in the fast food or janitorial services fields.

warmonkey.8013:

There certainly is endgame content. Go WvW. It’s fun. You’re not enjoying it? You’re doing it wrong. Period.

Raids? Nope. They’re idiotic. Cat-herding at its finest. Boring.

So you’ve “seen the light”, you know which gameplay mechanics are boring, and that people who don’t share your view are “doing it wrong”? Not condescending or hypocritical at all.

warmonkey.8013:

The game is suddenly heading towards massive imbalances in player power and PvE gameplay at the expense of PvP.

You want that garbage? The entirety of the MMO market save GW2 has that for you. Have at it.

And why should PvE be held back for the sake of PvP balance? I don’t care about PvP one bit, while you clearly favor it to PvE. I could go on talking about how you should go play LoL if you want “that garbage”, but I won’t because I feel like those two aspects of the game don’t have to step on each other’s feet, but still have plenty of room to grow. Make WvW separate, like SPvP for all I care. I just want more interesting PvE.

@ OP didn’t you enjoy the world? Marvel at the inhabitants and sights?
Or was it just about flashy gear?

Maybe its like drinking a really nice wine quick just to get drunk, and not savouring it.

Which, I must admit, I have just done

I’m constantly intrigued by this whole longevity argument. It obviously is meaningful to a lot of people or they wouldn’t go on and on about it.

The thing is, GW1 really was no great shakes in that area either, and I do not give two hoots how many old school fans come out to shoot me down about that. I played GW1 for as long as I wanted to, then realised I just didn’t want to anymore. Ffor me it ran out of compelling reasons to persist with it once the e-sports shine rubbed off – I’m not a big pvp fan tbh. Didn’t matter, no sub involved, I approached it as I would a normal PC game and moved on.

So then ANet decide to go the big full on MMO route, and suddenly everyone’s up in arms about not getting their value for money? If I never log on again, I’ve had a good 120 hours of fun time out of my first toon, I’m very pleased with that personally.

It’s a no sub game – it’s okay to leave it a while and come back later, the sky will not have fallen. Stop holding your breath, relax, swing by later when you get an itch again….sheesh!

And why should PvE be held back for the sake of PvP balance? I don’t care about PvP one bit, while you clearly favor it to PvE. I could go on talking about how you should go play LoL if you want “that garbage”, but I won’t because I feel like those two aspects of the game don’t have to step on each other’s feet, but still have plenty of room to grow. Make WvW separate, like SPvP for all I care. I just want more interesting PvE.

You don’t care about PvP? Awesome. I don’t care about PvE. You’ve got a ton of options to choose from if you want a PvE game with tons of PvE content that it’ll take you months of grinding to be able to access. Point at another MMO where I can run around killing people in 3-sided PvP for towers and keeps, point at another where just a few weeks after launch I can access any and all PvE content I might want to see.

Point one out to me.

GW2 is unique because of those things, and all you want to do is turn it into every other game you’ve ever played. I don’t give two puppies. I don’t even give half a puppy. The market caters to you. This game caters to me.

You’re the guy who would walk into a town’s one lone vegetarian establishment and loudly complain that they serve no steaks. I mean really dude? Go where they do things you like, and stop trying to flatten any diversity in the market.

Dynamite, if you’re still keeping up with this, let’s cut through the bull, eh? You approached the PvE content as a hoop-jumping exercise and rushed through it as quickly as possible to get to level 80 because you expected there to be special prizes and bragging rights for players who crossed the finishing line first.

What you really want from the game is for it to make you feel like you’re ‘better’ than other players by giving you fancy outfits and weapon/armour advantages in return for time spent playing. You won’t be happy with PvP until you’ve got god mode against newer players and can type, “Pwned, n00bs” in the chat window. That’s what you mean by ‘longevity’.

That’s basically it, right?

lacrimstein.5603:

And why should PvE be held back for the sake of PvP balance? I don’t care about PvP one bit, while you clearly favor it to PvE. I could go on talking about how you should go play LoL if you want “that garbage”, but I won’t because I feel like those two aspects of the game don’t have to step on each other’s feet, but still have plenty of room to grow. Make WvW separate, like SPvP for all I care. I just want more interesting PvE.

Of all the MMORPGs I have ever played, Guild Wars is the first to put PvP first and PvE second. I have always enjoyed PvP in other MMORPGs but have always complained to friends of it being impossible to balance correctly as long as PvE was prioritized when dealing with skills and game mechanics. PvE will eventually be more interesting to your liking, I’m sure, but please give it time.

Signed,
Lalabu

In World of Warcraft I absolutely agree there is no point in leveling another character. The content is exactly the same and unchanging and the classes are dull and boring all around. The unending gear treadmill is disgustingly boring. Why is a false sense of accomplishment considered fun for many MMO players?

But there is a lot of value in leveling up alts in Guild Wars 2. The Professions all have a totally different feel to them. If you don’t believe me try leveling up a Guardian and a Mesmer. Or a Thief and a Necro. Combat isn’t some homogenous, bland experience. Have you completely mastered all skill combos? Hard to say if you soloed most of the content. Or if you like, try helping guildies level up, or join more group dynamic events.

Also try leveling up one character from each race. The personal stories are vastly different. Though you would still have to choose from three different orders, the vigil, priory or whispers, they have further branching options for you to select from.

Not to mention the content update this month and the subsequent PvP additions in the near future.

I’d take all GW2 has to offer any day over boring, endless, gear grinds that provide a sense of ‘pride’ and ‘uberness’ over other players for a required monthly fee.

I will agree that it was a mistake for anet to leave out GvG. That is something they should have had from the beginning.

What is so great about raiding? Other than being forced into an alliance, what makes it so much better than grabbing a group of 5 people for explorable mode dungeons?

Is it the fact that loot is exclusive and you have to run the same raids over and over again with some vain hope of getting loot? Is it that raids take 3-4 hours to complete? What makes this fun? Help me to understand why raids are superior, because I don’t see it.

Lalabu.2097:

lacrimstein.5603:

And why should PvE be held back for the sake of PvP balance? I don’t care about PvP one bit, while you clearly favor it to PvE. I could go on talking about how you should go play LoL if you want “that garbage”, but I won’t because I feel like those two aspects of the game don’t have to step on each other’s feet, but still have plenty of room to grow. Make WvW separate, like SPvP for all I care. I just want more interesting PvE.

Of all the MMORPGs I have ever played, Guild Wars is the first to put PvP first and PvE second. I have always enjoyed PvP in other MMORPGs but have always complained to friends of it being impossible to balance correctly as long as PvE was prioritized when dealing with skills and game mechanics. PvE will eventually be more interesting to your liking, I’m sure, but please give it time.

Signed,
Lalabu

I am giving it time, but there seems to be a few people who think that GW2 is absolutely perfect, and that any addition to gameplay mechanics (I’m not even talking about raids or gear progression, I’m talking about any addition) will ruin their precious game, and shoot down any criticism that would help ANet improve the game. Finally, I am completely fine with people liking pvp. What I have a problem with is people want pve lobotomized just to balance their PvP. Make WvW separate just like PvE. It won’t hurt pvpers, and it won’t hurt pve’ers. Live and let live.

Lalabu.2097

Of all the MMORPGs I have ever played, Guild Wars is the first to put PvP first and PvE second.

I don’t feel like PvE has been put on the back burner. I think the PvE in GW2 is very polished. I thoroughly enjoy it. AND the PvP. I think this game does justice to both and makes both a game of skill and tactic rather than gear like so many other MMOs.

Zhaneel.9208:

What is so great about raiding? Other than being forced into an alliance, what makes it so much better than grabbing a group of 5 people for explorable mode dungeons?

Is it the fact that loot is exclusive and you have to run the same raids over and over again with some vain hope of getting loot? Is it that raids take 3-4 hours to complete? What makes this fun? Help me to understand why raids are superior, because I don’t see it.

Group size, difficulty (although explorables are somewhat close), length is somewhat of a factor. Mainly group size and difficulty though. Not loot, for me anyway. I enjoy getting together with my guild (which are also a group of close friends) to do something really challenging that takes teamwork and skill to acheive.

Raids arnt superior to other forms of content they are merely an alternative. Another way to experience content. As ive said before, raiding isnt a bad thing, just the way raiding was handled was bad. We dont need gear grinds, exclusive content or a total focus on raids. We just need something for groups of over 5 thats really hard.

Simonic.2609:

DJSkittles.7196:

Honestly, This may sound very immature and brunt of me, but if your unable to find a way to have fun in WvW, than your just a dumb kitten You can say what you want, but I have had my fair share of experiences in WvW and I have always found a way to have fun.

The problem with this is that you assume that there is any point to WvW — as if any of it actually matters. I rarely play first person shooters — for the same reason as to why I don’t really enjoy WvW.

I play(ed) MMORPGs because I liked watching my character progress in power. For people like myself the leveling from 1-80 seemed natural — we progressed. At 80, we obtained essentially the last gear we will ever need until the next expansion (and maybe not even then). No longer was character progression the goal. And, at level 80 with “max” gear — that is my primary issue. I have no meaningful goals. There is nothing that will provide me an opportunity to truly continue my characters

Your right, I guess I had trouble seeing it from your point of view. I guess GW2 really just works for me because I still see it as a video game, and I realize that at the end of the day, nothing that happens in the game actually matters, and it could all be erased tomorrow. So when im playing, I already see it as a big waste of time, so I might as well have fun wasting time instead of getting frustrated or worrying about goals and things I need to complete in the game. I can have fun in WvW because I don’t need that sense of prestige or that sense of always getting to the next level, or next goal. I just play video games to have fun and pass the time, I always felt like “Why take something so seriously when I know it won’t be permanent?” I think GW2 is just for those people who are more casual and realize that its just not that important, and you don’t have to always be the greatest at everything. Its kind of like Call of Duty, I never needed any reward to play that over and over, I just liked blowing kitten up and chilling with my friends. I don’t look at games for rewards, rewards come in real life. And I honestly feel that this game will not appeal to people who need to be constantly rewarded from their video games. The true reward is just relaxing and not worrying about anything and just having fun in the game. That’s enough of a reward for me.

Lalabu.2097:

Of all the MMORPGs I have ever played, Guild Wars is the first to put PvP first and PvE second.

Thats sure not how I remember it, and as someone who is still playing GW1 I’d say my memory is pretty fresh. If you had instead said that Guild Wars was the first to completely separate PvP and PvE, then I would be able to agree with you. They have separate versions of skills, one for PvP and one for PvE so that balancing PvP doesn’t screw over PvE and balancing PvE doesn’t screw over PvP.

Why they didn’t follow suit in this game is yet another big mystery.

OP has a fair point about limited content from two perspectives, quantity and diversity.

That said, I’m pretty sure both players and ANet are okay with getting over 70 good hours of gameplay for $60. Not all players obviously and not all ANet staff either, but overall it sounds like a pretty decent trade considering other games provide 20-40 hours depending on the genre and game.

This may have been said before, I did not read 100% of the posts.

I like this game, its fun and different. I really want to continue playing but Im running out of things to do as well. A serious problem I have run into is in completing the 100% map achievement I have learned the storyline for every area. Now that I want to go back and make a new character to try things out, I feel like I have no place to go. I want to try out different classes but I just cant bring myself to complete a zone I JUST did.

So Instead I find myself running around collecting gold on my level 80 because I have nothing better to do. Im not that fond of the legendarys so I dont have that. PVP got old fast. WvW, Im still working on, I havent finished that yet so theres something.

The sad part of all this is, the things I enjoy most are doing crazy stuff with my freinds. They however are having my same problem with not wanting a legendary and unable to grind through the same zones for a new character. I fear that they will soon quit and I would lose interest playing alone while they all played something new together…or old cough civ 5

TL:DR
Did the world already, dont feel like doing it again on a new char. Friends getting bored.

lacrimstein.5603:

Tim.9850:

When anyone levels that fast, they will burn themselves out. It doesn’t matter what game it is.

Most people leveling super fast are not enjoying the game. I’d also be willing to bet they have missed a large number of the dynamic events.

“Too fast”? The game spoonfeeds you EXP every corner. It’s been a month. Even casual players are starting to hit 80 by now. Tell me how you play, please. Avoid every single monster, mining node, tree, DE, and just “explore”? As for the DE’s, it doesn’t matter that I missed them. They’re exactly the same as the DE’s I’ve already done in every other zone: Kill everything inside the orange circle. Even WoW has a wider range of quest types than this game. DE quantity =/= DE quality.

The game is not about max level, so you are 80? Agree with you, leveling goes to fast and you get tons of xp for every little thing. It looses its value. However, eventhough I am 80 I still haven’t completed the story and I haven’t done all dungeons. The map is like 50% completed and the next extension is around the corner (22 oct.) People are so used to the importance of level that they can’t cope if they make it so unimportant.

Since everyone is approaching this from the WoW / general MMO perspective, let me do it different: I have the same issue (no longevity, no reason to play), but I’ll compare it to GW1. (note that this actually makes a lot of sense since it was made by the same people).

I loved GW1. I loved other MMOs too, had a great time in Aion and RIFT, but GW1 kept me playing longer. There was no better gear to get, not even for looks, and yet I kept playing. The reason was the challenge. In GW1, what I used to do was switch to hard mode, grab a couple of NPCs, called henchmen and heroes there, and try to clear the missions, dungeons and zones on hard mode with the NPCs, without using consumables. There was a nice title system to keep track of how many you completed. I did this for years, from when hard mode was introduced all the way up to the pre-GW2 content like Winds of Change.

Now GW2. It’s been a month or two, and I have pretty much zero goals left, zero things that I haven’t already done. I completed 100% of the map and did every dungeon on nearly every path (I may have missed some, but give me a week and I’ll have them all) Now what? There is no hard mode, no higher difficulty for any of the content. All I can do is go back and do the same things I have already done.

So to the people who say they feel like playing another 500 hours: what are you gonna do? Repeat? Everyone will get bored eventually if that’s the only option…

Veldan, there is no higher tier yet. They didn’t have hard mode in GW1 at launch, the most likely scenario is that they will be adding hard modes to GW2 in the future.

The game has been out for barely 2 months and you rushed through content because that’s how the majority of people play these days, but that doesn’t change how long it takes to develop content. We got GW2 now and it is great, or we could have waited a few more years for it to come out with more content forcing people to rush through it even faster. I think there is plenty of content but I am a ‘stop and smell the roses’ gamer, enjoying aspects of the game that the general speed players don’t care for.

Bluestone.7106:

Veldan, there is no higher tier yet. They didn’t have hard mode in GW1 at launch, the most likely scenario is that they will be adding hard modes to GW2 in the future.

The game has been out for barely 2 months and you rushed through content because that’s how the majority of people play these days

To the first point: GW1 also took me much longer to play through at launch, there was no need for hard mode back then.

To second point: I did not rush. People seem to think that everyone who is lvl 80 with exotics by now is a rusher. I enjoyed my leveling, played through all of the personal story, did a lot of dynamic events (it got me enough karma for 2 T3 cultural weapons, no boosters used), completed 100% of every zone. I even often tried to get to random places for making nice screenshots! I really did all the content I came across, with an exception of crafting because I generally hate that.

@Lalabu.2097
“Of all the MMORPGs I have ever played, Guild Wars is the first to put PvP first and PvE second.”

DaoC was before it
What made DaoC RvR superior to GW2 WvW? one of the reasons was character progression through RvR.

@coglin.1496

“What saddens me is that we have enough players with such a limited realm of knowledge that they would make such ridiculous claims as this.

At the very least, claim your some sort of psychic. Otherwise, it is just embarrassing ….Your not even capable of guessing my age, much less predicting the enjoyment I will get out of the game."

Maybe nothing to brag about, but i have with 99% certainty more mmo experiance then most on this forum, im old enough to have played games like NW and Meridian and muds before that.
The same patterns goes through all mmos and what MarzAttakz is true, ANet was brave trying something new, but unfortunally GW1 might have been a lucky spell, that concept doesnt work with most mmo players anymore.
Many players still refuse to admit that they dont really like the game and hold on for dear life forcing themselves to think its fun, but soner or later, just like any other mmo, most of them also take of their glasses and start seeing through the initial “honeymoon” period.

Everyone saying things like “before it was just about having fun” are talking out their hats. Mmos have always been about character progression, maximizing stats and becoming a “champion”, with the exception of GW1. Its a small part of the mmo community that likes that and i thing ANet shot themselves in the foot by doing it.

Will GW2 survive? yes. But for such a huge project, big world and a WvW and sPvP system that requires quite alot of players, there will probably be quite alot of server merges and a drop to SWToR/Lotro/Rift amount of players.
Question is how they will finance new content with no subsciptionfee with that amount of players. It feels like GW2 costs more to keep up.