Guild Wars 2

Grim West.3194:

Yes, we were lied to. Grinding dailies and grinding FOTM is the current endgame in GW2… which is an exact copy of WoW. If I wanted to grind dailies and instanced dungeons then I would be playing WoW.

We were promised something different than WoW, but what we got was a just another WoW clone.

At this point GW1 is a much better game than GW2. If ANET ever delivers on their promises for GW2 then I’ll come back, but I have better things to do than grind in another cheap WoW clone.

Not at all. I can point out counter arguments, but it’s going to take up a couple paragraphs. So before I spend the time doing that, are you sure you want a response from me?

I would love to know how the OP thinks the game should work. How should new items be obtained, for example?

ANet was talking about classic MMO GEAR GRIND. You know, the kind where you have to replace all of your gear because a new PVP season has started or because a new expansion has been introduced?

They’ve validated their stance against that sort of gear grind by correcting their error in making ascended gear obtainable only through fractals. This is why they’ve just introduced these new methods to obtain those items.

Short of having an NPC somewhere simply handing out new items, there’s got to be some means of GAMEPLAY involved in getting new stuff. Unless of course, OP, you have in mind that no new stuff is ever introduced.

Good grief.

Randulf.7614:

So the quote proves no forced grind. It says they put in grind for amazing skins, but not for best gear. There is no grind for best gear as you get the mats/karma/coin just by playing

You do get the distinction between mandatory and non-mandatory grinds and that’s good. A grind for cosmetic skins is non-mandatory. You will be in no way disadvantaged in terms of play by not doing the grind. A mandatory grind is one that you need to do to keep up with stat inflation. This is the kind of grind WoW has. If you don’t keep up with the increasing power level of the game, eventually you will be unable to play. Mandatory.

On 11/15 Anet introduced vertical progression into the game. This is the game element that produces a mandatory grind. Previous to that it was about cosmetic differences only and non-mandatory. Usually you will see people attempting to defend Anet by minimizing the significance of the initial pieces of gear. Consider the words making up the concept. Vertical: the power level increases. Progression: it periodically increases over time. You can see by the definition that there will come a time that you will be forced to grind to maintain your characters power level with the increasing power level of the game. It is mandatory in order to be on par with other players and to keep up with the power level of the environment.

So, it is good to understand the difference between mandatory and non-mandatory grinds. It is also helpful to understand the significance of the elements of game design. Vertical progression is an element you introduce to create a mandatory gear grind. It’s not my idea, it’s inherent in the very definition of the concept. It’s a choice developers make. Ultimately, you can either like or dislike the mandatory gear grind we have had introduced on 11/15. But, it’s not an option to say it doesn’t exist.

Grim West.3194:

Yes, we were lied to. Grinding dailies and grinding FOTM is the current endgame in GW2… which is an exact copy of WoW. If I wanted to grind dailies and instanced dungeons then I would be playing WoW.

We were promised something different than WoW, but what we got was a just another WoW clone.

At this point GW1 is a much better game than GW2. If ANET ever delivers on their promises for GW2 then I’ll come back, but I have better things to do than grind in another cheap WoW clone.

Its all truth, just because you said so! Im sure whole ArenaNet together with gamers community is crying over your departure. Its a sad day indeed.

I had enough karma to buy 3 sets of exotics from Karma vendors in Orr by the time I even started caring about getting exotic armor. I ran around in rares for a long time, and it didn’t affect my effectiveness at all in dungeons, WvW, or Fractals.

Katai.6240:

I had enough karma to buy 3 sets of exotics from Karma vendors in Orr by the time I even started caring about getting exotic armor. I ran around in rares for a long time, and it didn’t affect my effectiveness at all in dungeons, WvW, or Fractals.

Was you the one that downed 80% of the time in fractal and people had to spend ton of time to rez you? I’m just kidding.

Grim West.3194:

Yes, we were lied to. Grinding dailies and grinding FOTM is the current endgame in GW2… which is an exact copy of WoW. If I wanted to grind dailies and instanced dungeons then I would be playing WoW.

We were promised something different than WoW, but what we got was a just another WoW clone.

At this point GW1 is a much better game than GW2. If ANET ever delivers on their promises for GW2 then I’ll come back, but I have better things to do than grind in another cheap WoW clone.

. Right but unlike wow you dont get locked out of content if you dont grined

Thats kinda the hole point. In wow if you dont keep up you get left behind

Raf.1078:

A set of armor requires 30 pieces. Took about 4 months though to get to 25. It ain’t a race.

Funny, because further up you said that when a person hits level 80, all they’ll need is 5-6 gold to make a full set of exotic gear. Now you’re saying it took you 4 months to grind out 25 ectoplasms? Sounds like someone can’t keep their story straight.

I don’t feel lied to because of the very miniscule advantage that ascended gear provides in combat.

The difference between an ascended item and an exotic is very negligeable and will very rarely make the difference in the outcome of a fight. In WvW, a fair 1 on 1 fight is an extreme rarity as it is. And ascended gear doesn’t exist in sPvP, which is where you go for a fair fight.

The promise that I hold ANet to is skill > gear, and that still holds true disregarding extreme curcumstances (like full uncommon vs full exotic).

I think there’s a difference between having grind and requiring grind, which a lot of people seem to confuse
You can play this game with zero grind and still have full exotic gear
You can also choose to grind to your hearts desire so you go beyond that full exotic set, like to get a legendary or a million gold.
Optional grind does not count when they say they designed the game with no grind. They could not possibly help it if people decided to focus on one thing to repeatedly do over and over again just because it gives 10% more gold than another area.
Sure, you won’t get quite as high of a income if you don’t grind, but that doesn’t mean it’s necessary.
Now, if one spot gave so much more gold than all the others, then I’d say that spot was necessary to grind. I just don’t think that’s currently the case.

Revolution.6301:

fellyn.5083:

Revolution.6301:

Hi I like the rest of you bought into this game but I feel like I was punched in the gut and laughed at.
This game was suppose to built on not having grind. This was one of Anet’s key manifesto points however now:
1. Legendary weapon grind
2. Gold Grind – you need atleast 100 gold for the ideal build and armor you want. If you want any of the ‘special’ weapon look at grinding out atleast another 300-500 gold (legend range for a min of 1.5k to 2.5k) -unless your brilliant at investing or lucky your looking at around 50-60 hours of grinding to get the armor and build you want. Ironically in GW1 which was ‘suppose’ to be more of a grind this was alot simplier and easier.
Another key point of their manifesto was no gear grind as of now there is:
1. Ascended gear (what?! isn’t this what they said WOULD NOT happen? Did they not say how they disproved of this? How the game should be about having fun?)
They already stated they tend to add more gear grinds later how (Why? The game was released for only 3 months and Anet felt they had to add in a gear grind already?) I can’t imagine what will happen in a year from now.
2. Karma gear -to get one set of karma get you need atleast 240k karma. Yeah for the above avg. causal – to hardcore this is possible but for us casuals this is NOT possible in a reasonable amount of time.

And finally did they not state how this was directed towards everyday? People who simply do not have the time to put in 100s of hours into the game? The information given above tends to differ.
What I don’t understand and what the community in general is confused about is why this game was marked towards people who don’t like grind. Simple put, why not market it towards the people that love grind? (not saying that is bad but it is a completly different market)

How can anyone take you seriously when you so completely exaggerate. It takes nowhere near 100g to get a character kitted out in full exotics.

Just run some dungeons and you can get a full set of exotic armor inside of a week playing 1-2 hours a day. Compared to what it was at launch that’s nothing. And outside of repair costs that requires 0 gold.

I’m talking about exotics that look the way you want them to. So add in Dye(s) and runes and my cost also includes jewlews and rings and backpacks etc.

What you’re talking about are things that are purely cosmetic. I’m guessing you’re new to the Guild Wars games because that’s how it was in GW1 as well.

You can get the very basics quite easily but the cosmetic good looking stuff took a lot of work. Anet has never lied that GW2 would be any different than it is as far as that goes.

And like I said if you do dungeons you can potentially make a lot of money so getting the accessories won’t be all that hard.

I don’t fee lied to, not at all. Instead it feels like there’s a lot of places the game still needs work. The game has had hits and misses, and that doesn’t mean we’ve all been lied to, just that we should give the devs our thoughts to help make the game better.

Legendary
I feel that the legendary system could do with more a bit more design. The scavenger hunt sounds like a very good start, but I’d really like the rest of the journey to acquiring your legend of a weapon to be a meaningful endeavor. It should involve an epic quest, a story that tells you of the history behind the item while you compile unique components to your exact that slowly builds its strength. The system right now feels like uber-crafting mode, and there’s noting legendary about that.

Gold
I’d like there to be more ways to get gold. The harder DEs should award more gold, and completing meta steps should accumulate gold with each step. Among other things, the game should throw spurts of gold your way in random spouts, like the heavy bags of coins available in more way, like from champion kills, or even a random reward from dailies. Then there should also be more things for you to use your coins on. More options are always a good thing.

Ascended
What a point of contention. I love the purpose, but hate the idea behind it. I love that it’s meant to be extremely rare items that are for the hardcore and dedicated players. I hate that it’s meant to replace exotics. I wish ANet could have made a compromise here, something along the lines of ascended gear having an extra slot for infusions where you can put magic find and gold find, while still having the gem stats built in, though at level with exotics. Ascended gear is making runes obsolete, and I don’t think I like them all that much.

Karma
More ways to get karma would be brilliant. Maybe veterans and Champions can have a chance to drop taste/vials/swigs of karma. Then I’d like the devs to keep on coming up with great karma rewards. The stuff added in Frost and Flame are brilliant!

As gamers, we can be an insufferable lot. It seems as though no matter what any may deliver there will be those crying that it didn’t offer X,Y, or Z. And each individual whiner thinks that their concept of what the game should, or could, be is the only correct iteration.

Speaking frankly, if one’s preconception, misconception, misunderstanding, or undelivered candy coated dreams have caused so much ire in one’s life as to warrant your constant tirades and crying rants then that person should reexamine their life, and priorites in life. Because one must have an empty, shallow existence to feel the entirety of weltschmerz simply because of a game.

You do cancer is devastating people everywhere? But yes. THIS game is what deserves your righteous indignation.

“What’s wrong to want to get what we paid for!?” This is a strawman. Whether game dev. said this, or that, or what you assumed to be forthcoming because of any statement is irrelevant. It isn’t as if you paid for a ferrari, and received a dog-sled. With a sick dog. That had mange. The sniping gripes, again, show that if one’s world was in so much upheaval over these miniscule details it is time for some introspection.

“But you spent time refuting this, YOUR life is empty.” While I admire the ‘tu quoque’ it’s hardly an apt comparison and simply shows that the congnitive dissonance has reverted one’s brain to petty, adolescent slings.

“But because X,Y, or Z isn’t in the game I DO feel empty. I’ve lost my job. My wife has run out on me. I just need it to conform to MY vision so the world will know peace and love!” Stop lying. You never were married.

“But GW2 just isn’t what I wanted and it never will be!” Fine. That happens. I’d like my money back from “Ted” but, oh well. It happens. Sometimes we buy stuff that we think we’ll like, but it just isn’t our cup of tea. But what do adults do? Oh, right, we accept the fact that we just ate $50 and move on. Yes. We move on because continuing to waste time on something that has already taken our cash, that we just can’t fall in love with isn’t worth MORE time invested.

But, if one’s life is so empty that it isn’t a waste to beat a dead horse, well — looks like we’ve come full circle.

Red Falcon.8257:

Revolution.6301:

1. Legendary weapon grind

There is no grind for legendaries; you are supposed to get them over the course of several months with gold and loots you save.
You are not meant to grind to get them sooner; if you try so, it’s your fault.

Revolution.6301:

Gold Grind: you need atleast 100 gold for the ideal build

Flat-out lie. You have no shame?

You need 30 gold at best for the exotic set, and that gold can be aquired by simply completing maps and selling rewards you get.

Revolution.6301:

1. Ascended gear

No grind is required for this either, ascended rings come from daily fractal, amulet comes from daily laurels.

Revolution.6301:

Karma gear

Unnecessary.

So yes, I definitely feel lied to.
Except not by Anet, but by a certain someone who made up a lot of lies right here because he doesn’t know how to play GW2 and I supsect he will be embarassed when others explain him he ignores the basics of the game.

THANK YOU !!!

You saved me alot of time from having to type all that out.

I am a huge critic of Anet and some of there practices, but i am far from delusional, most of the perceived grind is just player’s complaining about legendaries (which are not needed to be competitive with others).

Myd Lyfe Crysis.7423:

As gamers, we can be an insufferable lot. It seems as though no matter what any may deliver there will be those crying that it didn’t offer X,Y, or Z. And each individual whiner thinks that their concept of what the game should, or could, be is the only correct iteration.

Speaking frankly, if one’s preconception, misconception, misunderstanding, or undelivered candy coated dreams have caused so much ire in one’s life as to warrant your constant tirades and crying rants then that person should reexamine their life, and priorites in life. Because one must have an empty, shallow existence to feel the entirety of weltschmerz simply because of a game.

You do cancer is devastating people everywhere? But yes. THIS game is what deserves your righteous indignation.

“What’s wrong to want to get what we paid for!?” This is a strawman. Whether game dev. said this, or that, or what you assumed to be forthcoming because of any statement is irrelevant. It isn’t as if you paid for a ferrari, and received a dog-sled. With a sick dog. That had mange. The sniping gripes, again, show that if one’s world was in so much upheaval over these miniscule details it is time for some introspection.

“But you spent time refuting this, YOUR life is empty.” While I admire the ‘tu quoque’ it’s hardly an apt comparison and simply shows that the congnitive dissonance has reverted one’s brain to petty, adolescent slings.

“But because X,Y, or Z isn’t in the game I DO feel empty. I’ve lost my job. My wife has run out on me. I just need it to conform to MY vision so the world will know peace and love!” Stop lying. You never were married.

“But GW2 just isn’t what I wanted and it never will be!” Fine. That happens. I’d like my money back from “Ted” but, oh well. It happens. Sometimes we buy stuff that we think we’ll like, but it just isn’t our cup of tea. But what do adults do? Oh, right, we accept the fact that we just ate $50 and move on. Yes. We move on because continuing to waste time on something that has already taken our cash, that we just can’t fall in love with isn’t worth MORE time invested.

But, if one’s life is so empty that it isn’t a waste to beat a dead horse, well — looks like we’ve come full circle.

A lesson in an extended ad hominem. Though the thread is rife with ideas, do you notice how this ignores the ideas and issues raised and goes right “to the man”. Yes, it’s a game. People care about the games they play. They want to see them improve.This is a gaming forum where people discuss the games. What is out of place in the discussion is a post that doesn’t engage with ideas being discussed. If you have something to contribute do so, but the ad hominem is just a blustery way to say that you have nothing more to say. And, it’s best to simply not say that.

Raine.1394:

Randulf.7614:

So the quote proves no forced grind. It says they put in grind for amazing skins, but not for best gear. There is no grind for best gear as you get the mats/karma/coin just by playing

You do get the distinction between mandatory and non-mandatory grinds and that’s good. A grind for cosmetic skins is non-mandatory. You will be in no way disadvantaged in terms of play by not doing the grind. A mandatory grind is one that you need to do to keep up with stat inflation. This is the kind of grind WoW has. If you don’t keep up with the increasing power level of the game, eventually you will be unable to play. Mandatory.

On 11/15 Anet introduced vertical progression into the game. This is the game element that produces a mandatory grind. Previous to that it was about cosmetic differences only and non-mandatory. Usually you will see people attempting to defend Anet by minimizing the significance of the initial pieces of gear. Consider the words making up the concept. Vertical: the power level increases. Progression: it periodically increases over time. You can see by the definition that there will come a time that you will be forced to grind to maintain your characters power level with the increasing power level of the game. It is mandatory in order to be on par with other players and to keep up with the power level of the environment.

So, it is good to understand the difference between mandatory and non-mandatory grinds. It is also helpful to understand the significance of the elements of game design. Vertical progression is an element you introduce to create a mandatory gear grind. It’s not my idea, it’s inherent in the very definition of the concept. It’s a choice developers make. Ultimately, you can either like or dislike the mandatory gear grind we have had introduced on 11/15. But, it’s not an option to say it doesn’t exist.

This. Exactly. The worst part is, they specifically stated they won’t introduce another new tier of gear.. this year. Which very very heavily implies that it’s coming later. If they didn’t intend to do it ever, they’d have stated so plainly. Ascended gear is only the beginning.

At this point, the only way they can demonstrate that they’re going to stick to their word going forward is by making top-tier gear (with blah skins) available from armor vendors for a fairly trivial amount of gold, such that a new player would probably have enough money to buy a full set upon hitting 80 if he hadn’t spent money on other things. Since Ascended gear is now top-tier, this means vendors selling ugly Ascended gear for gold, at no more than 2-5 gold per piece.

Of course, we all know that’s very unlikely to happen. And along with that, they’re very unlikely to get more money from me.

Revolution.6301:

Hi I like the rest of you bought into this game but I feel like I was punched in the gut and laughed at.
This game was suppose to built on not having grind. This was one of Anet’s key manifesto points however now:
1. Legendary weapon grind
2. Gold Grind – you need atleast 100 gold for the ideal build and armor you want. If you want any of the ‘special’ weapon look at grinding out atleast another 300-500 gold (legend range for a min of 1.5k to 2.5k) -unless your brilliant at investing or lucky your looking at around 50-60 hours of grinding to get the armor and build you want. Ironically in GW1 which was ‘suppose’ to be more of a grind this was alot simplier and easier.
Another key point of their manifesto was no gear grind as of now there is:
1. Ascended gear (what?! isn’t this what they said WOULD NOT happen? Did they not say how they disproved of this? How the game should be about having fun?)
They already stated they tend to add more gear grinds later how (Why? The game was released for only 3 months and Anet felt they had to add in a gear grind already?) I can’t imagine what will happen in a year from now.
2. Karma gear -to get one set of karma get you need atleast 240k karma. Yeah for the above avg. causal – to hardcore this is possible but for us casuals this is NOT possible in a reasonable amount of time.

And finally did they not state how this was directed towards everyday? People who simply do not have the time to put in 100s of hours into the game? The information given above tends to differ.
What I don’t understand and what the community in general is confused about is why this game was marked towards people who don’t like grind. Simple put, why not market it towards the people that love grind? (not saying that is bad but it is a completly different market)

1. legenday is no way needed and ment to be a LONG term project. a legendary is realy just a RARE SKIN, nothing more then an exotic then a SKIN (bla bla it will upgrade to ascended stats, but blabla you still need to do all your weps..) it is only a grind if you push to get it asap and not just collect over time and get it when it is done. Every game has to have some LONG terms goal for players to keep working for or why do we keep playing?

2. 100G for full exotic is a bit over the top, its not that high(ectos jumped in last week may have got it to here). but that price is if you just walk up to the TP and buy every piece of exotic lv 80. VERY FEW PEOPLE DO THIS. lets be honest, you should have collect a decent amount of mats leveling up. You should have collected karma to suplement a few gear parts when you hit 80 with decent stats on them. you should have been running some dung to level and collecting tokens to have an exotic wep or two waiting.

When I hit 80 I had enough token for my thiefs SB and a dagger, karma for 4 or 5 karma vendor exotics, and collected enough mats/cash to have a guily craft the remaining gear parts. as time went on I improved the parts that were ok but not best i could use form dung runs. Now with jewlery from ascended (laurels) and exotics from the orr temples its even easier.

3. jump from exotic > ascended is minor if you lok at rare > exotic imo. given they are slowly adding 1-2 parts every few months over a years time to need to get a new set of gear.. cry some more… but seriously, they add fractals to the monthly to get you doing some, they add laurels to get the items. they are not that hard to get and the difference between them and exotic is minor (when full set is out you will knotic, but if you wait till full set is out.. your own problem) by the time the full set is out they will be just as easy to get as full exotic (such a joke) anyways

4. 240k karma isnt that much to be honest. do a few events each day, do your dailys and monthly over the time it takes you to get to 80 you should have enough karma for a few if not a full set of karma gear. Note, very few classes will actually e able to put together a full set of gear from just karam and have the stats they should have, but this helps cut out the gold from some parts.

There is less grind in this game then any MMO I have ever played, and the grind that is there is not required, its simply there for getting skins.

Revolution.6301:

1. Legendary weapon grind

Legendary is a skin, they have the same stats as any other exotic and therefor completely arbitrary whether you have a cool looking skin or not…not a grind.

Revolution.6301:

2. Gold Grind – you need atleast 100 gold for the ideal build and armor you want. If you want any of the ‘special’ weapon look at grinding out atleast another 300-500 gold (legend range for a min of 1.5k to 2.5k) -unless your brilliant at investing or lucky your looking at around 50-60 hours of grinding to get the armor and build you want. Ironically in GW1 which was ‘suppose’ to be more of a grind this was alot simplier and easier.

I suggest you look into crafting. The only thing I couldn’t make for free was the specific runes needed. In my case the runes were craftable and then I could either buy the needed lodestones or put on some MF gear and take a week to “grind” for them (which is what I did). So at the most you’ll spend about 1-3 gold per rune, or make them yourself for the cost of the core\lodestone if you don’t want to get them yourself.

Revolution.6301:

Another key point of their manifesto was no gear grind as of now there is:
1. Ascended gear (what?! isn’t this what they said WOULD NOT happen? Did they not say how they disproved of this? How the game should be about having fun?)
They already stated they tend to add more gear grinds later how (Why? The game was released for only 3 months and Anet felt they had to add in a gear grind already?) I can’t imagine what will happen in a year from now.

On this we agree and I am a bit miffed at ANET for this as well. Fortunately they are really easy to get running fractals and within my first week I had 3 rings.

Revolution.6301:

2. Karma gear -to get one set of karma get you need at least 240k karma. Yeah for the above avg. causal – to hardcore this is possible but for us casuals this is NOT possible in a reasonable amount of time.

Take 10 minutes and complete the daily while leveling up for the karma jugs. By the time you hit 80 you will have more than enough jugs for a full set (I have always gained enough for two full sets.) Be sure to use a karma booster (for +50% karma) when consuming them all at once. Spending 10 minutes a day to complete the daily is not really a “grind” now is it? It’s all a matter of perspective, and you may still feel that GW2 is a grind, but it’s not to me….not even close.

Debsylvania.7396:

I would love to know how the OP thinks the game should work. How should new items be obtained, for example?

ANet was talking about classic MMO GEAR GRIND. You know, the kind where you have to replace all of your gear because a new PVP season has started or because a new expansion has been introduced?

They’ve validated their stance against that sort of gear grind by correcting their error in making ascended gear obtainable only through fractals. This is why they’ve just introduced these new methods to obtain those items.

Short of having an NPC somewhere simply handing out new items, there’s got to be some means of GAMEPLAY involved in getting new stuff. Unless of course, OP, you have in mind that no new stuff is ever introduced.

Good grief.

QFT. These threads are ridiculous.

Debsylvania.7396:

I would love to know how the OP thinks the game should work. How should new items be obtained, for example?

ANet was talking about classic MMO GEAR GRIND. You know, the kind where you have to replace all of your gear because a new PVP season has started or because a new expansion has been introduced?

They’ve validated their stance against that sort of gear grind by correcting their error in making ascended gear obtainable only through fractals. This is why they’ve just introduced these new methods to obtain those items.

Short of having an NPC somewhere simply handing out new items, there’s got to be some means of GAMEPLAY involved in getting new stuff. Unless of course, OP, you have in mind that no new stuff is ever introduced.

Good grief.

Yes, ANet was talking about classic gear grind, and now we have that. Or did you miss the Ascended gear that got added? And no, dailies where it takes a whole month to get one piece of ascended gear do NOT correct the error. Not even close.

They knew exactly what those of us coming from GW wanted, and the statements they made were essentially a promise that we’d get exactly the same kind of gear progression as in GW: none, once you hit level cap.

Based on their statements, there should, in fact, be NPCs standing around in cities handing out gear with max stats, for trivial amounts of gold. Now, that gear wouldn’t necessarily be very pretty, but stat-wise it would be as good as it gets. If you also want to look pretty/awesome/whatever, well, that requires some time and effort. That’s what they meant by their statements about “no gear grind”. Or at least, that’s what we were supposed to believe they meant. Whether they straight-up lied to us or simply deceived us with half-truths makes little difference. They knew how their statements would be interpreted, then they implemented stuff that flies directly in the face of it.

morology.2507:

Debsylvania.7396:

I would love to know how the OP thinks the game should work. How should new items be obtained, for example?

ANet was talking about classic MMO GEAR GRIND. You know, the kind where you have to replace all of your gear because a new PVP season has started or because a new expansion has been introduced?

They’ve validated their stance against that sort of gear grind by correcting their error in making ascended gear obtainable only through fractals. This is why they’ve just introduced these new methods to obtain those items.

Short of having an NPC somewhere simply handing out new items, there’s got to be some means of GAMEPLAY involved in getting new stuff. Unless of course, OP, you have in mind that no new stuff is ever introduced.

Good grief.

QFT. These threads are ridiculous.

People cheering on ANet to turn GW2 into just another run-of-the-mill, dumbed-down WoW clone are ridiculous. Seriously. If you want that crap, WoW is still available. So is Rift. And SW:ToR. And a whole host of other similar games with constant gear upgrades. There is no other half-decent game available for those of us who don’t want that crap.

To OP.
I suppose Legendary weapons are such a grind to get because if they were easy to get then everyone would have them and they wouldn’t be special anymore; Over time, they will get cheaper as more circulate, like it did with the rare skins in GW1. This is the same for Culture Armor, it is so expensive and feels like a gold grind to get, but that’s what makes it rewarding I guess? However, a lot of the culture armor is so so wrong, (but that’s another discussion ^^)
What I loved about GW1 was Zaishen Keys! I was a Random Arena addict and when they added Z Keys I could get rich easily and it didn’t feel like grinding. However, GW2 has made PvP and PvE very separate this time around. I hear from a lot of people “What is the use in PvP if it doesn’t effect my PvE character in anyway?”
My aim on GW1 was to get all the best gear to show off in RA, but now I can only do this in WvW. I suppose they have introduced transferring skins into PvP now, but does that mean I have to buy Culture tier 3 twice? Haha!

At least if they don’t re-add something similar to Z-Keys then, maybe they could add something else that gets you rich without it feeling like you’re farming or grinding. Because doing PvP to get lots of money on GW1, never felt dull for me.

There’s got to be some kind of grind in an MMO or there’s nothing for more hardcore players to do.

Why was my title changed? I and the majority of the community do feel like they were lied to.

Dradiin.8935:

I am a huge critic of Anet and some of there practices, but i am far from delusional, most of the perceived grind is just player’s complaining about legendaries (which are not needed to be competitive with others).

Not really as someone stated on page 1 most of the endgame PvE goals are largely cosmetic hence the complaints about grind, even the goal of world completion is a grind given the repetitive nature of the heart quests. Then there’s fractals and ascended gear which is an undeniable grind. Yes you can just ‘play the game’ without grind but most players want some sort of goal.

I mainly WvW as such I want the most appropriately statted gear possible for my toons. Getting that is a grind because the karma armour is restricted in terms of stats, and the low drop rates and DR make farming for crafting mats for the perfect set a grind.

Sphinx Jinx.2713:

To OP.
I suppose Legendary weapons are such a grind to get because if they were easy to get then everyone would have them and they wouldn’t be special anymore; Over time, they will get cheaper as more circulate, like it did with the rare skins in GW1. This is the same for Culture Armor, it is so expensive and feels like a gold grind to get, but that’s what makes it rewarding I guess? However, a lot of the culture armor is so so wrong, (but that’s another discussion ^^)
What I loved about GW1 was Zaishen Keys! I was a Random Arena addict and when they added Z Keys I could get rich easily and it didn’t feel like grinding. However, GW2 has made PvP and PvE very separate this time around. I hear from a lot of people “What is the use in PvP if it doesn’t effect my PvE character in anyway?”
My aim on GW1 was to get all the best gear to show off in RA, but now I can only do this in WvW. I suppose they have introduced transferring skins into PvP now, but does that mean I have to buy Culture tier 3 twice? Haha!

At least if they don’t re-add something similar to Z-Keys then, maybe they could add something else that gets you rich without it feeling like you’re farming or grinding. Because doing PvP to get lots of money on GW1, never felt dull for me.

Also another great point. I played Gw1 and I didn’t mind grinding away why?
Because there were more then 3 OPTIONS. I could pvp, UW, Urgoz etc. There were so many options and so if I was bored with 1 I’d move to another. I could even try and get hero armor items to sell. That is what I thought was so great, that if you thought “Enough of UW!” you could actually go to HA for instance but now if I think “Enough of Tunnel!” I then realize “Oh shoot there is only Tunnel”. (I don’t count Fotm because it is not as easily accessable as Tunnel)
There is no point on doing pvp for money since you get almost nothing so, playing PvE is much faster

In general I think we all want some kind of explination. Why the change? Will it be fixed? If we all remain calm like we have been and don’t start to flame HOPEFULLY Anet will listen.

I was talking with a ingame friend who is at Fotm 37 and he made a good point “Once I get my legendary I’ll probably quit”. Is that the only point? What about the everchanging world? I know you should not believe all the hype but they’ve done things completly contrary to what almost EVERY press meeting was about. GW2 was suppose to be a revolution, imo its more of a medium renevation. A revolution would be take what made Gw1 amazing and expand on it further.

The grind is all in your head, whether or not you grind and hence make the game a grind is entirely up to you. Don’t blame the developers for a reality that’s of your own creation. No one is forcing you to grind for anything in this game.

My main character has 100 s of gold, complete exotic, T3 armour, and I’ve never grinded for one second in this game.

The game still has more grind than it should have.

However, the OP is, as others have mentioned, wrong. ArenaNet had to add a system that punishes grind, so grinders wouldn’t have more gold than casual players and thus add inflation to the game; and they did add such a system, seen as DR. ArenaNet had to add ways to allow people to get items by playing the content they enjoy playing, as opposed to grinding, and they did:

• If you enjoy dungeons, you can get your exotic equipment through dungeon tokens.

• If you enjoy dynamic events, you can get your exotic equipment through karma after doing the Temple events in Orr.

• If you enjoy crafting, you can craft your exotic equipment.

• If you enjoy WvW, you can get your exotic equipment through badges of honor.

• If you enjoy exploring, you can use karma and you also get items from map completition.

• If you don’t like dungeons or dynamic events or crafting or WvW or exploring, then you don’t like the PvE part of the game anyway – why are you even concerned about PvE rewards?

This is exactly how the game should be. There are still a lot of flaws in the system, Ascended gear was really a bad idea and very poorly implemented, the TP has been exploited to death by market manipulators, and there are still too many rewards for grinding, but the proper foundation is there. ArenaNet just has to keep moving in the right direction.

Erasculio.2914:

The game still has more grind than it should have.

However, the OP is, as others have mentioned, wrong. ArenaNet had to add a system that punishes grind, so grinders wouldn’t have more gold than casual players and thus add inflation to the game; and they did add such a system, seen as DR. ArenaNet had to add ways to allow people to get items by playing the content they enjoy playing, as opposed to grinding, and they did:

• If you enjoy dungeons, you can get your exotic equipment through dungeon tokens.

• If you enjoy dynamic events, you can get your exotic equipment through karma after doing the Temple events in Orr.

• If you enjoy crafting, you can craft your exotic equipment.

• If you enjoy WvW, you can get your exotic equipment through badges of honor.

• If you enjoy exploring, you can use karma and you also get items from map completition.

• If you don’t like dungeons or dynamic events or crafting or WvW or exploring, then you don’t like the PvE part of the game anyway – why are you even concerned about PvE rewards?

This is exactly how the game should be. There are still a lot of flaws in the system, Ascended gear was really a bad idea and very poorly implemented, the TP has been exploited to death by market manipulators, and there are still too many rewards for grinding, but the proper foundation is there. ArenaNet just has to keep moving in the right direction.

You have given me 2 PvE options to grind. In Gw2 there were several in prof alone. And farming karma really? How long does it take for a casual player to get 240k karma. Cmon please…

And I have made some points that you avoided such as the clam that the game will be an everchanging world and a few others.

Revolution.6301:

You have given me 2 PvE options to grind

The thing, you are not expected to grind.

Eridani.8317:

There’s got to be some kind of grind in an MMO or there’s nothing for more hardcore players to do.

Actually, there doesn’t. The percentage of MMO players who actually enjoy grinding is miniscule. Why else do you think they would have made no grinding a selling point of GW2?

And why would you try to appease the 1% of players who like grinding if it costs you the 15% who hate it?

Ron.4920:

Myd Lyfe Crysis.7423

Did you notice how you put everyone in this post in one category? The cry baby category. Then you put yourself in the adviser category. There is way to much parenting in this world already sir. Its not even parenting, lets just call it what it is. Its abuse, you like to abuse people and you like to disguise it as advice.

As someone that has suffered from abuse I am offended by your post. You have managed to trivialize abuse. I reccomend that you spend some time in a battered womens shelter to find out what abuse really is.

Erasculio.2914:

The game still has more grind than it should have.

However, the OP is, as others have mentioned, wrong. ArenaNet had to add a system that punishes grind, so grinders wouldn’t have more gold than casual players and thus add inflation to the game; and they did add such a system, seen as DR.

Actually no DR means more items on the TP means no or less inflation. The TP has ridiculous inflation, abyss dye for over 22 gold!! And DR was supposedly implemented to combat botters anyway.

DR in effect adds to grind because it makes farming activities into more of a grind than they would otherwise be.

Peeps seem to be neglecting the big grinds of GW1, FoW and UW for obsi armor and DoA. Good times.

morrolan.9608:

DR in effect adds to grind because it makes farming activities into more of a grind than they would otherwise be.

Nope. It punishes farming, and thus it makes the game better for people who don’t farm (aka, people who are not grinders). Farmers don’t just add some rare items to the game – they add gold (since they cannot get rare items without getting gold in the process) and they concentrate gold, thus creating a gap in wealth between farmers with a lot of gold and normal, non grinder players with significantly less gold and less able to buy anything in the TP.

theblackerbanana.5130:

Peeps seem to be neglecting the big grinds of GW1, FoW and UW for obsi armor and DoA. Good times.

And you seem to be neglecting the fact that gear from there was for appearance only. And also that you could buy all the mats you needed.

theblackerbanana.5130:

Peeps seem to be neglecting the big grinds of GW1, FoW and UW for obsi armor and DoA. Good times.

I had obsidian armor for my warrior in GW1 cause it looked awesome. However if it gave extra stats in PvE and PvP, I would have quit long before farming enough gold to buy it.

Fractals was said to be planned before the game released though. So if they released it at the same time the game released, I’m sure people would not have seen it as the “grindy vertical” progression as it is. (The extra stats you get from it is pretty minimal too, and Anet is already adding more and more ways for people to get ascended gear).

Wait, 240k Karma is hard ? I had that much and more after hitting level 80 just from leveling up a single main character. I outright bought 4/5 Karma vendor gear without blinking or farming karma once and I still have 180k left on my character. I have no clue what to do with the junk.

I then transmuted all those Karma items (with the wrong stats) over to my crafted exotic gear which I got like 1 week after hitting 80. I ran FotM in pugs up to level 31, got my Ascended backpiece and 2 Ascended rings, 30 Agony resist because I threw them into the MF to get them (infused) all in little under 2 months of playing this game.

I also skinned my crafted weapons with dungeon skins, all of them. Oh yeah and I used some Karma for Ebonhawke skins. Reskinned my bow 3 times. I have a abyss dye, pitch, and midnight purple design I like a lot, all bought off the TP.

With no alts to help with dailies or other crud (multiple map completion).

And you’re saying this game is grindy ? I haven’t even started grinding for anything and already I’m full exotics, 3/4 Ascended, infused, superior runes, exotic jewels, heck exotic underwater weaponery.

No seriously, I played Vanilla WoW. A year into it, I was just barely getting into a guild competent enough to run Molten Core up to Rag (not on farm) in 3 nights. I was pigeonholed into a buff/cleanse/healbot because “That’s what Paladins do”. After 6 months of running Molten Core, I still didn’t have 8/8 Lawbringer. I still wasn’t BiS (and far from it seeing how Blackwing Lair was already launched).

And you say GW2 IS GRINDY ?

Get over yourself, this game is casual city. It’s a freaking walk in the park. Heck, the only way to make “less grindy” at this point is to basically mail you the Exotics you want out of a catalog, all free, the minute you zone into Shaemoor on day 1 or something.

BlackestKnight.1278:

Wait, 240k Karma is hard ? I had that much and more after hitting level 80 just from leveling up a single main character. I outright bought 4/5 Karma vendor gear without blinking or farming karma once and I still have 180k left on my character. I have no clue what to do with the junk.

I then transmuted all those Karma items (with the wrong stats) over to my crafted exotic gear which I got like 1 week after hitting 80. I ran FotM in pugs up to level 31, got my Ascended backpiece and 2 Ascended rings, 30 Agony resist because I threw them into the MF to get them (infused) all in little under 2 months of playing this game.

I also skinned my crafted weapons with dungeon skins, all of them. Oh yeah and I used some Karma for Ebonhawke skins. Reskinned my bow 3 times. I have a abyss dye, pitch, and midnight purple design I like a lot, all bought off the TP.

With no alts to help with dailies or other crud (multiple map completion).

And you’re saying this game is grindy ? I haven’t even started grinding for anything and already I’m full exotics, 3/4 Ascended, infused, superior runes, exotic jewels, heck exotic underwater weaponery.

No seriously, I played Vanilla WoW. A year into it, I was just barely getting into a guild competent enough to run Molten Core up to Rag (not on farm) in 3 nights. I was pigeonholed into a buff/cleanse/healbot because “That’s what Paladins do”. After 6 months of running Molten Core, I still didn’t have 8/8 Lawbringer. I still wasn’t BiS (and far from it seeing how Blackwing Lair was already launched).

And you say GW2 IS GRINDY ?

Get over yourself, this game is casual city. It’s a freaking walk in the park. Heck, the only way to make “less grindy” at this point is to basically mail you the Exotics you want out of a catalog, all free, the minute you zone into Shaemoor on day 1 or something.

You my friend would be a higher casual. You can’t say you casual. So yes for someone who can spend around 4-5 hours a day playing sure I guess there isn’t as much but that is NOT the point. I can only play an hour or so a day those are the people the game was targetted too.

I’m a casual too, usually averaging 1-2 hours or less on weekdays. However, I hardly find anything grindy. For me, Legendaries are not meant for casuals, so I know it’ll take me around 6+ months to get it if I play as I do without trying for it.

As far as dailies go, they seem fine to me, and actually less grindy with the new variety Anet added yesterday.

As far as “casual” gaming goes, you can reach exotics rather easily through WvW, Dungeons, or Karma. That’s hardly grindy. (I managed to fully gear my ele with exotics in less than 10 hours into level 80, so it definitely wasn’t grindy for me).

I’m starting to doubt that the people who say this game has so much “grind” in it have ever really experienced a true grind at all. This game has next to no grind, and what grind there is is purely optional. Is it really that big of a deal that a few armor sets and a few weapons require a grind to get (if you want them quickly)? Especially when you can effortlessly get gear that is either completely equal or almost equal to it stat wise?

As far as legendaries go, they are called legendaries for a reason. If everyone had a legendary would it really live up to its name?

I have 2 80’s in full exotics (one has 2 sets), and I’ve played pretty casually since launch. I don’t see getting gear as much of an issue, honestly. I’ve never had to spend 100 gold to gear out a character. Hell, I am working to get 50 gold so I can get 2 tier 3 cosmetic pieces, that’s the only “grind” I’ve had to deal with and it is purely cosmetic. Even then I just run CoF (or whatever other dungeon I feel like running) once a day and my money slowly builds up.

Honestly, I enjoy this game and most of the people I meet in game enjoy the game… Most of the people on the game’s subreddit enjoy the game, hell they were talking about how much they were enjoying the new patch today. I am baffled when I come on these forums and see the general discussion is just complaint after complaint. I really hope Anet doesn’t get discouraged by it, and that they realize how many of us there are who really love the game they’ve made, and appreciate the time and effort they put into it.

If you look at my post history, you will see that there are a LOT of things I do not like about the game. However, the “grinding” required in this game is not one of them.

If we assume that exotic armor is THE best armor you can get, then the grind is not even a “grind”. Let’s pretend that you somehow only have 1g by the time you have reached lvl 80…..play x amount of dungeons and get your full set of exotic armor via the dungeon tokens and the gold you have acquired through running the dungeons.

Ascended gear is a different beast. Its made for players who like doing dungeons at a higher difficulty. They asked for end game and that’s what they got. What else can possibly be end game if not for new dungeons? Higher difficulty comes better rewards. Though those rewards are now being trickled down so that ALL players can get them if they put in the time. Nothing is free….not even in real life. Otherwise there is no purpose of even playing the game.

Why do you think the games like Call of Duty are so popular? Partly is because you get to unlock various different skills and weapons. They are unlocked through playing the game.

See, I have played WoW for about a year and a half. The grind there was a REAL grind. The exotics grind in GW2 is kids play compared to WoW. We all seem to forget that in other traditional MMO’s, we have to Need/Greed for items that drop. I honestly cannot go back to such a system.

The complain I have though, is that there is truly a lack of armor/weapon skins for players to grind. Right now, there are dungeon, Cultural armor/weapons and Legendary Weapons. There are some nice craftable weapons in between (like the corrupted weapons). That’s it. Its like you have the two ends of the spectrum but you have no middle ground. Its either really easy (Cultural, Dungeon) or really hard (Legendary).

Revolution.6301:

You my friend would be a higher casual. You can’t say you casual. So yes for someone who can spend around 4-5 hours a day playing sure I guess there isn’t as much but that is NOT the point. I can only play an hour or so a day those are the people the game was targetted too.

Sorry I haven’t been clear enough. I can’t play as much as my WoW days (2 weeks of 12 hour days, 14 days of WoW to get the 5000g for my Epic Flying mount in BC, then another week doing Netherwing rep for the Dragon).

I now play around 2 hours per night, after 8 hours of work and 2 hours of gym time, if I can. Usually have time for 1 FotM and finishing up my dailies and that’s it.

This game is Casual City easy. When the “hardest most elite dungeon” can be pugged in under an hour at high levels of difficulty (FotM not hard boys and girls), then we’re quite far from wiping for the 6th time on Nef or Rag or Gruul or Mag or whatever Raid du Jour Boss is.

Try getting a 10 man pug for Kara that can make it up the tower in less than 3 days. Heck, a 20 man pug for Zul’Gurub. A 40 man pug for MC ? hahahahahhahahaa. Heck, my guild didn’t even attempt progression content unless we had perfect class make-up. 40 man/25 man, PERFECT class make-up. WTF ?

I quit WoW because it became a 2nd job. Schedules, guild meetings, DKP (salary), “Be on time or you lose your raid spot for 2 weeks”, sign ups, recruiting, “Sorry, we just don’t have the class make-up for those Mag attemps tonight”.

sigh. I can’t believe you’re whining about easy mode GW2, pugging FotM, oh noes needing 3 gold to buy a BiS items (like 1 FotM run worth of gold…). PERSPECTIVE.

Debsylvania.7396:

ANet was talking about classic MMO GEAR GRIND. You know, the kind where you have to replace all of your gear because a new PVP season has started or because a new expansion has been introduced?

You know level cap increases are coming, right? PvP seasons aren’t even applicable here, though WvW could have made for an interesting format.

you want to know grind? play aika online, where max level is 75-80+(haven’t played in a while so i don’t know where the lvl cap is now) and leveling pass 50 is a mindless slog of killing the same elite mob over and over, for hours on end just to gain one level,

The very fact that you can get to max level with this game in one or 2 weeks without repeating the same crap over an over, make this game 100 times better then most gmaes out there.
Same with Aion before i quit, anything pass 30-40 if you weren’t doing pvpve, you weren’t gaining anything for lvls.
There farming yes, but that what you want to do, not have to do. farming =/= grinding. imo

As a FFXI player (7 years) and someone who has followed (but not played) WoW I can tell you that you, TC, that you don’t know what a grind is.

OP needs to either move on and play a different game or “just suffer through this horrible grind experience”… dude all you posts are about grinding, you know whats even more tiresome is going on forums and watching people complain about grind all the time, gg this thread

butch.8136:

What do people want?

I want to be able to get the same loot drop when im out in the world killing stuff as you get in FotM and Dungeons, the same money the same Exotics everything..

Play the way you want to play..