Guild Wars 2

Eh? I’ve played 1300 hours in this game over 400ish days (that’s like more than 3 hours a day!), and only have 2 80s with a 3rd one heading towards 80. Have made one ascended weapon, have not yet gotten map completion, have not gone past fractals beyond level 20, and have like finished one dungeon (cof lol).

It’s a good thing I’m not a masochist, since when stuff comes along that I don’t care for such as the last few Living Story things, I just don’t do them. And this is coming from someone that HATES grinding. I hate leveling to 80, and all this ascended trash to me is pretty awful, so I haven’t even planned on ascended armor. But that’s because so little of it actually matters. I just go plink away in wvw somewhere.

It’s going to take a long time for me to even think of exhausting the content in the game, but yes I’m not gonna have a mental breakdown if some AP or laurels won’t be made. I like the scenery and I like killing people. That is all.

I can’t understand how someone can feel “forced” to do anything. It’s not like your stats will fall behind by 500% if you don’t. If I log on and find that there’s no action in wvw and the dailies suck… I don’t do them! And it doesn’t really happen too much that I log on and there’s nothing to do. At the very least, I get bored and help some random person or a guildie in a mid level zone. Yea, God forbid anything be done for something other than personal gain.The way some forum posts goes it sounds like people are pointing a gun on them and forcing them to log on. Go outside and do something.

Vayne.8563:

Saying that I’m using fallacies to defend Anet, is simply wrong. I use opinion where warranted to express my opinion positively and I do use fact to counter people who try to state opinion as fact.

Vayne.8563:

They also said that ascended gear was always supposed to be in the game but we didn’t have time to include it at launch. You may or may not believe that, but they did say it.

This is false. You used it to defend Anet. How do you reconcile the two with your claim that you do not use fallacies to defend Anet ?

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Reverence.6915:

cesmode.4257:

Reverence.6915:

Or maybe Maplestory, to remind yourself what grinding is. Because there’s no grind in GW2. At all. Seriously. People who say there’s any kind of grind in gw2 is deluded.

Theres no grind in a game like WoW then either, is there? You dont need BiS raid gear for any part of the game other than raiding. Much like GW2 where you don’t need ascended gear for anything other than fractals. Am i right?

What? If you play naturally for 1 or 2 months you’ll naturally get the mats to craft a piece of ascended gear. If you “grind” for it (i.e. do a few dungeons and buy the mats), you can get an entire set in that time period. Not quite sure how that constitutes a grind. It’s about the same amount of time it takes to level a character up to max level from scratch, without crafting or doing champ trains.

I don’t even do fractals so I don’t know how much ascended gear helps there.

In WoW, you need BiS gear to do anything, whether it’s PvP, raiding or just general PvE. Otherwise you fall behind everyone else and can’t compete for mobs and resource nodes. That’s not the case in gw2. The only things that slightly resemble grinding in gw2 are dungeon farming and champ training. Both are highly optional.

Also, try playing Maplestory for a month, then tell me GW2 has grind. Seriously. That game has decent action based combat, but oh my god the grind!

Not true for WoW. Please stop lying.

I recognise that WoW has tried to change this since WotLK, but it was generally recognised as a game with heavy grinding prior to that. I haven’t played it since BC, so…

Doesn’t take away from the fact that there is no grinding in gw2 unless you force it on yourself.

There’s 3 different game modes through which you can obtain gear (WvW for mats/laurels and sPvP for levels/laurels). Diversify. It’s hard to believe that you can exhaust yourself on WvW and sPvP, though I do agree that PvE is rather bland and unchallenging.

Reverence.6915:

Doesn’t take away from the fact that there is no grinding in gw2 unless you force it on yourself.

that’s exactly the opposite many players are complaining about.
for me, there a grinding, and it’s mandatory
because everything gives an advantage, also if it’s just 12.534423323233% AND AR, it’s very useful, especially in wvw and fractals.

skins are not mandatory legendary used to be not mandatory. titles, commander tag, dyes these are not mandatory. period.
mandatory doens’t necessarily mean that a charact absolutely needs it to access specific new content. it means it’s felt like a necessity because it gives a concrete, also if little, superiority.

you’ll answer that it’s still not so essential,
and someone will say again that if it wasn’t so useful there was no need to introduce it, and just continue without them and give some new only cosmetic content.
and someone believes that some mmo players NEED vertical progression…
and someone will say that they can gain ascended playing 1h a week without even looking at the screen while cooking,
and someone else will say he is still good at wvw without ascended…

imho, truth is simple.
and everybody knows it.
you like grind or not, love ascended or not, feel need to have or not,
anet stated some specific features in the game which no longer exist.
grinding and vertical progression are evident.
little progression but significative.
it’s a loss of time to demonstrate the opposite of evidence

You say that there’s a grind to get ascended gear though, but I don’t see it. I have double or triple the amount of mats needed (especially bloodstone, empyreal shards and dragonite, as well as t5 and t6 crafting mats – to the point where I just sell them on the TP for gold, or in the case of the former, just destroy them.) just from regularly playing WvW, a game mode that I enjoy. The only thing stopping me from getting a full set is that I’m still experimenting with builds.

Azala Yar.7693:

zenleto.6179:

If it looks like burn out and smells like burn out…

It’s not necessarily burn out, just boredom from doing the same old stuff over and over and over.

I had the same problem in WoW recently, got to the point where all I was doing was grinding for better gear.

And before some bright spark says do what you find interesting. You are forced by the game to jump on the gear grinding tread mill just so that your character can stay competitive.

If two people are level 80 both have the same class and exactly the same skills at using the character but one has full exotics and the other ascended and legendary gear. Who would win in a one to one fight?

Now I don’t know how different the stats are in this game, but in WoW the one with the better gear would win. Which is why people are forced onto the gear grinding tread mill. Gear grinding is not fun, but what you do when not grinding can be which is why people put up with it until they realise the pointlessness of it all.

This game is not like wow the different between ascended armor and exotics is so small. Eg ascen medium zerker shoulders has 1 power, and 1 precision over exotic yes it that small! As long as you have gull ascended trikets you are good to go.

Kevan.8912:

and someone will say that they can gain ascended playing 1h a week without even looking at the screen while cooking,

here he comes xD

i have no mats, no gold, and no tolerance for any kind of crafting….
it’s my fault? i think it is.
in fact i accept my responsibility for not having had any legendary or rare dye or title.
i never argued about “voluntary” grinding.
i’m just a mediocre player, both in skills and in “aspect”.
if i can login only once in 2days for a pair of hours, i hoped i could play without any handicap (even that 12%) in any part of the game.
this is what i saw in the gw2, and what developers said about it.
simply now things are different. just admit it.

Kevan.8912:

Kevan.8912:

and someone will say that they can gain ascended playing 1h a week without even looking at the screen while cooking,

here he comes xD

i have no mats, no gold, and no tolerance for any kind of crafting….
it’s my fault? i think it is.
in fact i accept my responsibility for not having had any legendary or rare dye or title.
i never argued about “voluntary” grinding.
i’m just a mediocre player, both in skills and in “aspect”.
if i can login only once in 2days for a pair of hours, i hoped i could play without any handicap (even that 12%) in any part of the game.
this is what i saw in the gw2, and what developers said about it.
simply now things are different. just admit it.

I see your point and I do agree that it’s a bit ridiculous to expect casuals (whom ArenaNet’s target audience is) to get ascended gear and stay competitive in the game. It’s a lot easier to get BiS in this game than in any other MMO though, given the number of paths available to get the mats required to craft them. In saying that however, it still doesn’t constitute a grind in my opinion, as there is little repetitive activity required in achieving said gear.

We all hope that there will be alternate methods to obtaining the gear soon though.

Azure Prower.8701:

I started since head start of the game.
I used to log on every day to do the dailies.
I used to care about getting every achievement point I could.
I’ve obtained the commander feature.
I’ve hit 80 on eight characters.
I’ve crafted 5 ascended weapons for my main.
I’ve crafted a legendary for my main.
I’ve reached the top 700 in achievement points.

Then the fractal revamp hit. Then come the ascended armors.

Now I’ve stopped caring. I’m losing interest.

Because I do not want to even think of farming for different tiers of cloth from mobs for ascended armors. Because I no longer want to repeat content I’ve done a thousand times before for an insignificant reward.

This has become a Korean grinder. I’m now struggling to log in.

Good post, all we can do is keep letting them know how bad the direction they have taken the last year has ground down even the most dedicated players.

At this point, I’m getting to where I don’t even blame people for botting anymore. At least they are getting a reward out of the game and not playing the same content x100. I’d never do it myself, but I can see why someone would for sure.

This game, at this juncture, is simply the biggest grind I have seen since Lineage 2 for end game gear. L2 is only slightly more annoying.

Don’t like to craft? GEAD, we don’t want you playing our game, or even remotely able to get end game gear.

Like WvW? Get out.

Wanna get ascended armor in WvW? Don’t make me laugh, well, ok, we’ll make it drop, but you have a better chance of getting struck by lightning 9 times than actually seeing the piece of armor you need drop.

Anet – Stop the senseless grinds! Bring the fun back to the game!

Reverence.6915:

Kevan.8912:

Kevan.8912:

and someone will say that they can gain ascended playing 1h a week without even looking at the screen while cooking,

here he comes xD

i have no mats, no gold, and no tolerance for any kind of crafting….
it’s my fault? i think it is.
in fact i accept my responsibility for not having had any legendary or rare dye or title.
i never argued about “voluntary” grinding.
i’m just a mediocre player, both in skills and in “aspect”.
if i can login only once in 2days for a pair of hours, i hoped i could play without any handicap (even that 12%) in any part of the game.
this is what i saw in the gw2, and what developers said about it.
simply now things are different. just admit it.

I see your point and I do agree that it’s a bit ridiculous to expect casuals (whom ArenaNet’s target audience is) to get ascended gear and stay competitive in the game. It’s a lot easier to get BiS in this game than in any other MMO though, given the number of paths available to get the mats required to craft them. In saying that however, it still doesn’t constitute a grind in my opinion, as there is little repetitive activity required in achieving said gear.

We all hope that there will be alternate methods to obtaining the gear soon though.

Little repetitive activity? Pray tell how do you obtain different tiers of cloth with out either:
A) Grinding the mobs at the correct levels.
B) Grinding gold so you can buy it off the TP.
C) Opening your wallet to skip the grinding for gold process.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Reverence.6915:

cesmode.4257:

Reverence.6915:

Or maybe Maplestory, to remind yourself what grinding is. Because there’s no grind in GW2. At all. Seriously. People who say there’s any kind of grind in gw2 is deluded.

Theres no grind in a game like WoW then either, is there? You dont need BiS raid gear for any part of the game other than raiding. Much like GW2 where you don’t need ascended gear for anything other than fractals. Am i right?

What? If you play naturally for 1 or 2 months you’ll naturally get the mats to craft a piece of ascended gear. If you “grind” for it (i.e. do a few dungeons and buy the mats), you can get an entire set in that time period. Not quite sure how that constitutes a grind. It’s about the same amount of time it takes to level a character up to max level from scratch, without crafting or doing champ trains.

I don’t even do fractals so I don’t know how much ascended gear helps there.

In WoW, you need BiS gear to do anything, whether it’s PvP, raiding or just general PvE. Otherwise you fall behind everyone else and can’t compete for mobs and resource nodes. That’s not the case in gw2. The only things that slightly resemble grinding in gw2 are dungeon farming and champ training. Both are highly optional.

Also, try playing Maplestory for a month, then tell me GW2 has grind. Seriously. That game has decent action based combat, but oh my god the grind!

Not true for WoW. Please stop lying.

In which way…that BiS gear is required or not required for any content? Because Im pretty sure I can get some mediocre gear, run all normal and heroic dungeons, as well as all scenarios, dallies, and questing, as well as middle of the road gear for LFR. The only time BiS is required is non-LFR raiding.

Azure Prower.8701:

Reverence.6915:

Kevan.8912:

Kevan.8912:

and someone will say that they can gain ascended playing 1h a week without even looking at the screen while cooking,

here he comes xD

i have no mats, no gold, and no tolerance for any kind of crafting….
it’s my fault? i think it is.
in fact i accept my responsibility for not having had any legendary or rare dye or title.
i never argued about “voluntary” grinding.
i’m just a mediocre player, both in skills and in “aspect”.
if i can login only once in 2days for a pair of hours, i hoped i could play without any handicap (even that 12%) in any part of the game.
this is what i saw in the gw2, and what developers said about it.
simply now things are different. just admit it.

I see your point and I do agree that it’s a bit ridiculous to expect casuals (whom ArenaNet’s target audience is) to get ascended gear and stay competitive in the game. It’s a lot easier to get BiS in this game than in any other MMO though, given the number of paths available to get the mats required to craft them. In saying that however, it still doesn’t constitute a grind in my opinion, as there is little repetitive activity required in achieving said gear.

We all hope that there will be alternate methods to obtaining the gear soon though.

Little repetitive activity? Pray tell how do you obtain different tiers of cloth with out either:
A) Grinding the mobs at the correct levels.
B) Grinding gold so you can buy it off the TP.
C) Opening your wallet to skip the grinding for gold process.

D) Play an alt through those levels without doing champ trains. It nets you quite a lot of those mats and is very fun if you just relax and take it easy. I took my level 20 necro to WvW and got around 50 wool scraps in around 2 hours from salvaging the loot. Running through maps doing exploration also netted me a lot of mats. Think outside the box.

Reverence.6915:

Azure Prower.8701:

Reverence.6915:

Kevan.8912:

Kevan.8912:

and someone will say that they can gain ascended playing 1h a week without even looking at the screen while cooking,

here he comes xD

i have no mats, no gold, and no tolerance for any kind of crafting….
it’s my fault? i think it is.
in fact i accept my responsibility for not having had any legendary or rare dye or title.
i never argued about “voluntary” grinding.
i’m just a mediocre player, both in skills and in “aspect”.
if i can login only once in 2days for a pair of hours, i hoped i could play without any handicap (even that 12%) in any part of the game.
this is what i saw in the gw2, and what developers said about it.
simply now things are different. just admit it.

I see your point and I do agree that it’s a bit ridiculous to expect casuals (whom ArenaNet’s target audience is) to get ascended gear and stay competitive in the game. It’s a lot easier to get BiS in this game than in any other MMO though, given the number of paths available to get the mats required to craft them. In saying that however, it still doesn’t constitute a grind in my opinion, as there is little repetitive activity required in achieving said gear.

We all hope that there will be alternate methods to obtaining the gear soon though.

Little repetitive activity? Pray tell how do you obtain different tiers of cloth with out either:
A) Grinding the mobs at the correct levels.
B) Grinding gold so you can buy it off the TP.
C) Opening your wallet to skip the grinding for gold process.

D) Play an alt through those levels without doing champ trains. It nets you quite a lot of those mats and is very fun if you just relax and take it easy. I took my level 20 necro to WvW and got around 50 wool scraps in around 2 hours from salvaging the loot. Running through maps doing exploration also netted me a lot of mats. Think outside the box.

E) Event “farm” with some guildies, make a game of it
F) Help leveling guildies clear a map
G) Help a guildie through some dungeons

There are things we do, just simply to do them, that don’t necessarily constitute “farming” and still net you the mats or gold you so desire.

Reverence.6915:

Azure Prower.8701:

Reverence.6915:

Kevan.8912:

Kevan.8912:

and someone will say that they can gain ascended playing 1h a week without even looking at the screen while cooking,

here he comes xD

i have no mats, no gold, and no tolerance for any kind of crafting….
it’s my fault? i think it is.
in fact i accept my responsibility for not having had any legendary or rare dye or title.
i never argued about “voluntary” grinding.
i’m just a mediocre player, both in skills and in “aspect”.
if i can login only once in 2days for a pair of hours, i hoped i could play without any handicap (even that 12%) in any part of the game.
this is what i saw in the gw2, and what developers said about it.
simply now things are different. just admit it.

I see your point and I do agree that it’s a bit ridiculous to expect casuals (whom ArenaNet’s target audience is) to get ascended gear and stay competitive in the game. It’s a lot easier to get BiS in this game than in any other MMO though, given the number of paths available to get the mats required to craft them. In saying that however, it still doesn’t constitute a grind in my opinion, as there is little repetitive activity required in achieving said gear.

We all hope that there will be alternate methods to obtaining the gear soon though.

Little repetitive activity? Pray tell how do you obtain different tiers of cloth with out either:
A) Grinding the mobs at the correct levels.
B) Grinding gold so you can buy it off the TP.
C) Opening your wallet to skip the grinding for gold process.

D) Play an alt through those levels without doing champ trains. It nets you quite a lot of those mats and is very fun if you just relax and take it easy. I took my level 20 necro to WvW and got around 50 wool scraps in around 2 hours from salvaging the loot. Running through maps doing exploration also netted me a lot of mats. Think outside the box.

It’s weird, I got roughly enough materials for my Leatherworker and Huntsman to reach 350 by doing Map Exploration. The last 50 or so points were mostly focused Daily runs – that is, seeing what daily is up and focusing my attention on things which would get me the needed parts.

But seriously, WvW can give you a lot of raw basic materials if you break down drops when you have big peak-time fights. (Assuming you’re, you know, not in last place getting spawn camped.) The bottleneck isn’t the cloth/leather . . . it’s the Fine materials.

Reverence.6915:

Azure Prower.8701:

Reverence.6915:

Kevan.8912:

Kevan.8912:

and someone will say that they can gain ascended playing 1h a week without even looking at the screen while cooking,

here he comes xD

i have no mats, no gold, and no tolerance for any kind of crafting….
it’s my fault? i think it is.
in fact i accept my responsibility for not having had any legendary or rare dye or title.
i never argued about “voluntary” grinding.
i’m just a mediocre player, both in skills and in “aspect”.
if i can login only once in 2days for a pair of hours, i hoped i could play without any handicap (even that 12%) in any part of the game.
this is what i saw in the gw2, and what developers said about it.
simply now things are different. just admit it.

I see your point and I do agree that it’s a bit ridiculous to expect casuals (whom ArenaNet’s target audience is) to get ascended gear and stay competitive in the game. It’s a lot easier to get BiS in this game than in any other MMO though, given the number of paths available to get the mats required to craft them. In saying that however, it still doesn’t constitute a grind in my opinion, as there is little repetitive activity required in achieving said gear.

We all hope that there will be alternate methods to obtaining the gear soon though.

Little repetitive activity? Pray tell how do you obtain different tiers of cloth with out either:
A) Grinding the mobs at the correct levels.
B) Grinding gold so you can buy it off the TP.
C) Opening your wallet to skip the grinding for gold process.

D) Play an alt through those levels without doing champ trains. It nets you quite a lot of those mats and is very fun if you just relax and take it easy. I took my level 20 necro to WvW and got around 50 wool scraps in around 2 hours from salvaging the loot. Running through maps doing exploration also netted me a lot of mats. Think outside the box.

So you’re saying that he should make a 9th alt? How is that thinking outside the box? You didn’t read his OP did you?

Leo Paul.1659:

Reverence.6915:

Azure Prower.8701:

Reverence.6915:

Kevan.8912:

Kevan.8912:

and someone will say that they can gain ascended playing 1h a week without even looking at the screen while cooking,

here he comes xD

i have no mats, no gold, and no tolerance for any kind of crafting….
it’s my fault? i think it is.
in fact i accept my responsibility for not having had any legendary or rare dye or title.
i never argued about “voluntary” grinding.
i’m just a mediocre player, both in skills and in “aspect”.
if i can login only once in 2days for a pair of hours, i hoped i could play without any handicap (even that 12%) in any part of the game.
this is what i saw in the gw2, and what developers said about it.
simply now things are different. just admit it.

I see your point and I do agree that it’s a bit ridiculous to expect casuals (whom ArenaNet’s target audience is) to get ascended gear and stay competitive in the game. It’s a lot easier to get BiS in this game than in any other MMO though, given the number of paths available to get the mats required to craft them. In saying that however, it still doesn’t constitute a grind in my opinion, as there is little repetitive activity required in achieving said gear.

We all hope that there will be alternate methods to obtaining the gear soon though.

Little repetitive activity? Pray tell how do you obtain different tiers of cloth with out either:
A) Grinding the mobs at the correct levels.
B) Grinding gold so you can buy it off the TP.
C) Opening your wallet to skip the grinding for gold process.

D) Play an alt through those levels without doing champ trains. It nets you quite a lot of those mats and is very fun if you just relax and take it easy. I took my level 20 necro to WvW and got around 50 wool scraps in around 2 hours from salvaging the loot. Running through maps doing exploration also netted me a lot of mats. Think outside the box.

So you’re saying that he should make a 9th alt? How is that thinking outside the box? You didn’t read his OP didn’t you?

Most people tend not to read any post criticizing the game before they jump to it’s defense of inane grinds.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

It’s weird, I got roughly enough materials for my Leatherworker and Huntsman to reach 350 by doing Map Exploration. The last 50 or so points were mostly focused Daily runs – that is, seeing what daily is up and focusing my attention on things which would get me the needed parts.

But seriously, WvW can give you a lot of raw basic materials if you break down drops when you have big peak-time fights. (Assuming you’re, you know, not in last place getting spawn camped.) The bottleneck isn’t the cloth/leather . . . it’s the Fine materials.

I agree, the bottleneck is definitely the fine materials for me. I usually have lots of tier 1, 2, and 5, but 3, 4, and (of course) 6 are non-existent for me. I’ve had to buy some of all the tiers, but usually that’s ‘after the fact’ when I’m making a specific set for a leveling alt. I think I’ve spent… between 10 and 15 gold, and I now have all 6 professions over 400.

Now it’s on to the daily ori and ancient farm runs… they were the only things I couldn’t really stock up on with normal play (avoiding orr and all lol).

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Reverence.6915:

Azure Prower.8701:

Reverence.6915:

Kevan.8912:

Kevan.8912:

and someone will say that they can gain ascended playing 1h a week without even looking at the screen while cooking,

here he comes xD

i have no mats, no gold, and no tolerance for any kind of crafting….
it’s my fault? i think it is.
in fact i accept my responsibility for not having had any legendary or rare dye or title.
i never argued about “voluntary” grinding.
i’m just a mediocre player, both in skills and in “aspect”.
if i can login only once in 2days for a pair of hours, i hoped i could play without any handicap (even that 12%) in any part of the game.
this is what i saw in the gw2, and what developers said about it.
simply now things are different. just admit it.

I see your point and I do agree that it’s a bit ridiculous to expect casuals (whom ArenaNet’s target audience is) to get ascended gear and stay competitive in the game. It’s a lot easier to get BiS in this game than in any other MMO though, given the number of paths available to get the mats required to craft them. In saying that however, it still doesn’t constitute a grind in my opinion, as there is little repetitive activity required in achieving said gear.

We all hope that there will be alternate methods to obtaining the gear soon though.

Little repetitive activity? Pray tell how do you obtain different tiers of cloth with out either:
A) Grinding the mobs at the correct levels.
B) Grinding gold so you can buy it off the TP.
C) Opening your wallet to skip the grinding for gold process.

D) Play an alt through those levels without doing champ trains. It nets you quite a lot of those mats and is very fun if you just relax and take it easy. I took my level 20 necro to WvW and got around 50 wool scraps in around 2 hours from salvaging the loot. Running through maps doing exploration also netted me a lot of mats. Think outside the box.

E) Event “farm” with some guildies, make a game of it
F) Help leveling guildies clear a map
G) Help a guildie through some dungeons

There are things we do, just simply to do them, that don’t necessarily constitute “farming” and still net you the mats or gold you so desire.

Your suggestions are nothing more than sugarcoated ways of saying the OP’s points A) and B )

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I agree, the bottleneck is definitely the fine materials for me. I usually have lots of tier 1, 2, and 5, but 3, 4, and (of course) 6 are non-existent for me. I’ve had to buy some of all the tiers, but usually that’s ‘after the fact’ when I’m making a specific set for a leveling alt. I think I’ve spent… between 10 and 15 gold, and I now have all 6 professions over 400.

Now it’s on to the daily ori and ancient farm runs… they were the only things I couldn’t really stock up on with normal play (avoiding orr and all lol).

Psst, your quote is broken.

Orichalcum and Ancient Wood can be found in Frostgorge and Eternal Battleground, though only a few bits. I get mine mostly from salvaging everything not Masterwork. I sell that.

lordkrall.7241:

So because of the fact that they revamped Fractals and added Ascended Armor (which had been known for a YEAR before it actually came btw) you can no longer enjoy the content you enjoyed before?

Are you sure you really enjoyed the content before then? Because none of that content have been changed in the slightest with any of those releases (unless you only wanted to do fractals, but they haven’t really seen much change either (other than adding some extra challenge)).

problem is they added new goals, without adding anything new to do in order to achieve these goals, so these goals end up looking mostly the same (though i will say fractals is a seperate issue). And just because you enjoyed something for a year, doesnt mean you will enjoy it as much after a year, especially if nothing has advanced/changed/become more challenging after a year.

I dont think people would hate ascended as much if it had new content modes/adventures/goals tied to obtaining it.

As far as losing interest due to ascended armor, i dont think it would make one lose interest if they are currently enjoying the game, but it does nothing to make the game much more fun/different/interesting/challenging. It just adds a goal.

I’m with OP, I am farming for my Ascended Gear (even weapons since I was taking a break when it was released) but I’m not really “enjoying” the game as I used to do…

Now, I log on and think “what am I farming today?”
Before the break, it was “what do I want to do today?”

You know, the idea of those Accound Bound Ascended Materials from various parts of the game (Champions, WvW/Dungeons, Bosses) is a great idea, but the part to spend hundreds of gold to level your crafting isn’t…

They could’ve just added more of it, or something more "adventure-sque " to it, but it’s just more grind grind grind.
Although I came back recently AND I have some new friends starting out might give me the push to keep playing, but I can say the interest/fun factor of playing clearly isn’t the same…

phys.7689:

I dont think people would hate ascended as much if it had new content modes/adventures/goals tied to obtaining it.

If Ascended had been:

- Released as an entire set. (All at once even if it waited six months from Lost Shores.)
- Available primarily from running Fractals, or at a longer-term pace elsewhere. (For instance, Fractal-dropped tokens to be traded like Dungeon Token trading but for those who didn’t like Fractals enough to do them, the crafting-or-drop option.)
- Not a power increase but an addition of Infusion slots as opposed to Runes/Sigils/Crests to Exotic stats. (To undercut “power creep” arguments, and make it a pure sidestep only more useful for Fractals.)

I really doubt we would have seen as much a problem.

Leo Paul.1659:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Reverence.6915:

Azure Prower.8701:

Reverence.6915:

Kevan.8912:

Kevan.8912:

and someone will say that they can gain ascended playing 1h a week without even looking at the screen while cooking,

here he comes xD

i have no mats, no gold, and no tolerance for any kind of crafting….
it’s my fault? i think it is.
in fact i accept my responsibility for not having had any legendary or rare dye or title.
i never argued about “voluntary” grinding.
i’m just a mediocre player, both in skills and in “aspect”.
if i can login only once in 2days for a pair of hours, i hoped i could play without any handicap (even that 12%) in any part of the game.
this is what i saw in the gw2, and what developers said about it.
simply now things are different. just admit it.

I see your point and I do agree that it’s a bit ridiculous to expect casuals (whom ArenaNet’s target audience is) to get ascended gear and stay competitive in the game. It’s a lot easier to get BiS in this game than in any other MMO though, given the number of paths available to get the mats required to craft them. In saying that however, it still doesn’t constitute a grind in my opinion, as there is little repetitive activity required in achieving said gear.

We all hope that there will be alternate methods to obtaining the gear soon though.

Little repetitive activity? Pray tell how do you obtain different tiers of cloth with out either:
A) Grinding the mobs at the correct levels.
B) Grinding gold so you can buy it off the TP.
C) Opening your wallet to skip the grinding for gold process.

D) Play an alt through those levels without doing champ trains. It nets you quite a lot of those mats and is very fun if you just relax and take it easy. I took my level 20 necro to WvW and got around 50 wool scraps in around 2 hours from salvaging the loot. Running through maps doing exploration also netted me a lot of mats. Think outside the box.

E) Event “farm” with some guildies, make a game of it
F) Help leveling guildies clear a map
G) Help a guildie through some dungeons

There are things we do, just simply to do them, that don’t necessarily constitute “farming” and still net you the mats or gold you so desire.

Your suggestions are nothing more than sugarcoated ways of saying the OP’s points A) and B )

Yes and no. Most people define grind as spending time doing something they don’t want to do and aren’t enjoying having to do it. If you’re out helping a friend or guildie by choice because you want to, it’s not the same thing because you should be enjoying yourself.

By your general thought line, simply leveling a character (your first or otherwise), enjoyable or otherwise, falls under points A and B. At which point you may as well not bother playing the game at all because absolutely everything you do is ‘grind’.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I agree, the bottleneck is definitely the fine materials for me. I usually have lots of tier 1, 2, and 5, but 3, 4, and (of course) 6 are non-existent for me. I’ve had to buy some of all the tiers, but usually that’s ‘after the fact’ when I’m making a specific set for a leveling alt. I think I’ve spent… between 10 and 15 gold, and I now have all 6 professions over 400.

Now it’s on to the daily ori and ancient farm runs… they were the only things I couldn’t really stock up on with normal play (avoiding orr and all lol).

Psst, your quote is broken.

Orichalcum and Ancient Wood can be found in Frostgorge and Eternal Battleground, though only a few bits. I get mine mostly from salvaging everything not Masterwork. I sell that.

Lol thanks, should be fixed.

Yeah, there’s 2 of each in Frostgorge, but that’s really not enough. Not to mention if you only clear that map a couple of times, you’re not really stocking up. And for those that don’t WvW… (like me generally)… Thus, the farming runs. Not a big deal, it takes me like 30 minutes to do FS, CS, and ML and then move on to whatever I was planning on doing.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Leo Paul.1659:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Reverence.6915:

Azure Prower.8701:

Reverence.6915:

Kevan.8912:

Kevan.8912:

and someone will say that they can gain ascended playing 1h a week without even looking at the screen while cooking,

here he comes xD

i have no mats, no gold, and no tolerance for any kind of crafting….
it’s my fault? i think it is.
in fact i accept my responsibility for not having had any legendary or rare dye or title.
i never argued about “voluntary” grinding.
i’m just a mediocre player, both in skills and in “aspect”.
if i can login only once in 2days for a pair of hours, i hoped i could play without any handicap (even that 12%) in any part of the game.
this is what i saw in the gw2, and what developers said about it.
simply now things are different. just admit it.

I see your point and I do agree that it’s a bit ridiculous to expect casuals (whom ArenaNet’s target audience is) to get ascended gear and stay competitive in the game. It’s a lot easier to get BiS in this game than in any other MMO though, given the number of paths available to get the mats required to craft them. In saying that however, it still doesn’t constitute a grind in my opinion, as there is little repetitive activity required in achieving said gear.

We all hope that there will be alternate methods to obtaining the gear soon though.

Little repetitive activity? Pray tell how do you obtain different tiers of cloth with out either:
A) Grinding the mobs at the correct levels.
B) Grinding gold so you can buy it off the TP.
C) Opening your wallet to skip the grinding for gold process.

D) Play an alt through those levels without doing champ trains. It nets you quite a lot of those mats and is very fun if you just relax and take it easy. I took my level 20 necro to WvW and got around 50 wool scraps in around 2 hours from salvaging the loot. Running through maps doing exploration also netted me a lot of mats. Think outside the box.

E) Event “farm” with some guildies, make a game of it
F) Help leveling guildies clear a map
G) Help a guildie through some dungeons

There are things we do, just simply to do them, that don’t necessarily constitute “farming” and still net you the mats or gold you so desire.

Your suggestions are nothing more than sugarcoated ways of saying the OP’s points A) and B )

Yes and no. Most people define grind as spending time doing something they don’t want to do and aren’t enjoying having to do it. If you’re out helping a friend or guildie by choice because you want to, it’s not the same thing because you should be enjoying yourself.

By your general thought line, simply leveling a character (your first or otherwise), enjoyable or otherwise, falls under points A and B. At which point you may as well not bother playing the game at all because absolutely everything you do is ‘grind’.

That’s what I’ve been thinking whenever people complain about a grind. Honestly, it just sounds like they don’t want to do anything. I LIKE doing world bosses, map exploration, and dungeons. I get plenty of mats/gold from doing them. Enough that I’ve made my two weapons, ankitten ow finishing leveling armorsmith while crafting ascended materials. I get enough gold/mats to finish the timegated ones everyday. Just by playing things I like.

So I do have to ask, those who seem to have trouble getting mats, or think everything is a grind. What do you even like to do then?

Evelynddra.9265:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Leo Paul.1659:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Reverence.6915:

Azure Prower.8701:

Reverence.6915:

Kevan.8912:

Kevan.8912:

and someone will say that they can gain ascended playing 1h a week without even looking at the screen while cooking,

here he comes xD

i have no mats, no gold, and no tolerance for any kind of crafting….
it’s my fault? i think it is.
in fact i accept my responsibility for not having had any legendary or rare dye or title.
i never argued about “voluntary” grinding.
i’m just a mediocre player, both in skills and in “aspect”.
if i can login only once in 2days for a pair of hours, i hoped i could play without any handicap (even that 12%) in any part of the game.
this is what i saw in the gw2, and what developers said about it.
simply now things are different. just admit it.

I see your point and I do agree that it’s a bit ridiculous to expect casuals (whom ArenaNet’s target audience is) to get ascended gear and stay competitive in the game. It’s a lot easier to get BiS in this game than in any other MMO though, given the number of paths available to get the mats required to craft them. In saying that however, it still doesn’t constitute a grind in my opinion, as there is little repetitive activity required in achieving said gear.

We all hope that there will be alternate methods to obtaining the gear soon though.

Little repetitive activity? Pray tell how do you obtain different tiers of cloth with out either:
A) Grinding the mobs at the correct levels.
B) Grinding gold so you can buy it off the TP.
C) Opening your wallet to skip the grinding for gold process.

D) Play an alt through those levels without doing champ trains. It nets you quite a lot of those mats and is very fun if you just relax and take it easy. I took my level 20 necro to WvW and got around 50 wool scraps in around 2 hours from salvaging the loot. Running through maps doing exploration also netted me a lot of mats. Think outside the box.

E) Event “farm” with some guildies, make a game of it
F) Help leveling guildies clear a map
G) Help a guildie through some dungeons

There are things we do, just simply to do them, that don’t necessarily constitute “farming” and still net you the mats or gold you so desire.

Your suggestions are nothing more than sugarcoated ways of saying the OP’s points A) and B )

Yes and no. Most people define grind as spending time doing something they don’t want to do and aren’t enjoying having to do it. If you’re out helping a friend or guildie by choice because you want to, it’s not the same thing because you should be enjoying yourself.

By your general thought line, simply leveling a character (your first or otherwise), enjoyable or otherwise, falls under points A and B. At which point you may as well not bother playing the game at all because absolutely everything you do is ‘grind’.

That’s what I’ve been thinking whenever people complain about a grind. Honestly, it just sounds like they don’t want to do anything. I LIKE doing world bosses, map exploration, and dungeons. I get plenty of mats/gold from doing them. Enough that I’ve made my two weapons, ankitten ow finishing leveling armorsmith while crafting ascended materials. I get enough gold/mats to finish the timegated ones everyday. Just by playing things I like.

So I do have to ask, those who seem to have trouble getting mats, or think everything is a grind. What do you even like to do then?

Playing devil’s advocate again.

It’s not about doing them, it’s about the amount of doing them. It’s doing them past the point where it’s fun for them and more “gotta do it again or else…”

And it’s a case of a lot of people having different thresholds for how they feel about repeating things. For instance, I enjoy repeating certain events over again because they’re fun for me to do. And some other events I simply DO NOT enjoy and feel more like chores.

(Solo doing the water pump event chain, because nobody else does, for instance. JUST to shut up the NPCs complaining about the water.)

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Leo Paul.1659:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Reverence.6915:

Azure Prower.8701:

Reverence.6915:

Kevan.8912:

Kevan.8912:

and someone will say that they can gain ascended playing 1h a week without even looking at the screen while cooking,

here he comes xD

i have no mats, no gold, and no tolerance for any kind of crafting….
it’s my fault? i think it is.
in fact i accept my responsibility for not having had any legendary or rare dye or title.
i never argued about “voluntary” grinding.
i’m just a mediocre player, both in skills and in “aspect”.
if i can login only once in 2days for a pair of hours, i hoped i could play without any handicap (even that 12%) in any part of the game.
this is what i saw in the gw2, and what developers said about it.
simply now things are different. just admit it.

I see your point and I do agree that it’s a bit ridiculous to expect casuals (whom ArenaNet’s target audience is) to get ascended gear and stay competitive in the game. It’s a lot easier to get BiS in this game than in any other MMO though, given the number of paths available to get the mats required to craft them. In saying that however, it still doesn’t constitute a grind in my opinion, as there is little repetitive activity required in achieving said gear.

We all hope that there will be alternate methods to obtaining the gear soon though.

Little repetitive activity? Pray tell how do you obtain different tiers of cloth with out either:
A) Grinding the mobs at the correct levels.
B) Grinding gold so you can buy it off the TP.
C) Opening your wallet to skip the grinding for gold process.

D) Play an alt through those levels without doing champ trains. It nets you quite a lot of those mats and is very fun if you just relax and take it easy. I took my level 20 necro to WvW and got around 50 wool scraps in around 2 hours from salvaging the loot. Running through maps doing exploration also netted me a lot of mats. Think outside the box.

E) Event “farm” with some guildies, make a game of it
F) Help leveling guildies clear a map
G) Help a guildie through some dungeons

There are things we do, just simply to do them, that don’t necessarily constitute “farming” and still net you the mats or gold you so desire.

Your suggestions are nothing more than sugarcoated ways of saying the OP’s points A) and B )

Yes and no. Most people define grind as spending time doing something they don’t want to do and aren’t enjoying having to do it. If you’re out helping a friend or guildie by choice because you want to, it’s not the same thing because you should be enjoying yourself.

By your general thought line, simply leveling a character (your first or otherwise), enjoyable or otherwise, falls under points A and B. At which point you may as well not bother playing the game at all because absolutely everything you do is ‘grind’.

Your argument relies heavily on a vague definition of a grind. Whether one enjoys it or not is irrelevant, it’s simply doing old tasks again (repetitively) for new gear, which at this point (after doing it for a while), is what the OP is tired of. Please note that we are talking about ascended, your attempt at faulty generalization is impertinent to the topic.

Leo Paul.1659:

Your argument relies heavily on a vague definition of a grind. Whether one enjoys it or not is irrelevant, it’s simply doing repetitive tasks for new gear, which at this point (after doing it for a while), is what the OP is tired of. Please note that we are talking about ascended, your attempt at faulty generalization is impertinent to the topic.

A momentary caution. Grind is a vaguely defined term and usually is subjective to the person at hand. What one person finds “grindy as all heck” someone else might actually enjoy, or at least not be bothered by.

Yes, we are talking about the OP’s threshold of grind. But if we’re going to quibble that someone’s definition of grind is vague when it is . . . in itself, vague and subjective, we should acknowledge that detail.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Playing devil’s advocate again.

It’s not about doing them, it’s about the amount of doing them. It’s doing them past the point where it’s fun for them and more “gotta do it again or else…”

And it’s a case of a lot of people having different thresholds for how they feel about repeating things. For instance, I enjoy repeating certain events over again because they’re fun for me to do. And some other events I simply DO NOT enjoy and feel more like chores.

(Solo doing the water pump event chain, because nobody else does, for instance. JUST to shut up the NPCs complaining about the water.)

I do see your point. Several people with many alts having complained about this, and I can see their perspective… to an extent. I still argue that having ascended gear is a choice that we make. There is nothing presently that requires it. Not WvW, not the current top level fractals (you can do those with just the trinkets that we’ve had for over a year now).

Having 10 personal characters that I would like to gear, and then 10 more on my husband’s account, I can see their issue. Although, the only material I have any difficulty getting (personally) is dragonite ore, since I don’t do world bosses and Anvil Rock never seems to bother with the temples….

On the other hand, there will be those who thrive on such things, and won’t be able to understand the perspective you’re putting forth. To them, doing things repetatively in order to obtain the top tier is the ‘standard’ for such games, and they have issues accepting not having the grind.

I think a lot of the former play style complaints will go away, if Anet heeds our cries for more means of acquisition. As I said in the CDI, let dungeoners dungeon. Let fractal runners play fractals. Let WvWer’s play WvW. Let event farmers use Karma. Just make it expensive to be on par with the crafting costs. Then, yes, it still requires some grind, but it is more a ‘your choice’ grind.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Leo Paul.1659:

Your argument relies heavily on a vague definition of a grind. Whether one enjoys it or not is irrelevant, it’s simply doing repetitive tasks for new gear, which at this point (after doing it for a while), is what the OP is tired of. Please note that we are talking about ascended, your attempt at faulty generalization is impertinent to the topic.

A momentary caution. Grind is a vaguely defined term and usually is subjective to the person at hand. What one person finds “grindy as all heck” someone else might actually enjoy, or at least not be bothered by.

Yes, we are talking about the OP’s threshold of grind. But if we’re going to quibble that someone’s definition of grind is vague when it is . . . in itself, vague and subjective, we should acknowledge that detail.

Just go back to the OP’s POV on what grinding is. The fact that grinding can be enjoyable [for other people] isn’t the problem per se but the fact that the acquisition of a new tier is requiring him to repeat content that he has done several times already and serves no bigger purpose. Providing a different definition of grinding doesn’t help in this case.

Only by providing new ways of getting ascended will the OP’s issue be addressed. Anet had the right idea when they introduced Guild Missions i think.

Because I do not want to even think of farming for different tiers of cloth from mobs for ascended armors. Because I no longer want to repeat content I’ve done a thousand times before for an insignificant reward.

Leo Paul.1659:

Your argument relies heavily on a vague definition of a grind. Whether one enjoys it or not is irrelevant, it’s simply doing old tasks again (repetitively) for new gear, which at this point (after doing it for a while), is what the OP is tired of. Please note that we are talking about ascended, your attempt at faulty generalization is impertinent to the topic.

Then, by your argument, the simple repeating of events in order to level is grind. Anything past the initial completion of the game on your first character is grind. Removing enjoyment as a factor, the choice to play, and therefore participate willingly in grind, is then solely your own and you may quit at any point which exceeds your threshold. No one is forcing people to play, nor are people forced to get the new gear.

The OP’s complaint is that she has to grind to get materials, by your logic absolutely everything she does is grind… as such, since it’s her choice to play, she doesn’t have anything to kitten about. Absolutely everything she does is repeatative, as it is the nature of a MMO, and therefore grind.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I do see your point. Several people with many alts having complained about this, and I can see their perspective… to an extent. I still argue that having ascended gear is a choice that we make. There is nothing presently that requires it. Not WvW, not the current top level fractals (you can do those with just the trinkets that we’ve had for over a year now).

It’s the power boost. It’s a dinner bell for some people to rush and push to get to it. I’d go so far as to call it a conditioned response gamers in general have to seeing something which has slightly better stats which doesn’t require figuring out if there’s a downside to it.

Having 10 personal characters that I would like to gear, and then 10 more on my husband’s account, I can see their issue. Although, the only material I have any difficulty getting (personally) is dragonite ore, since I don’t do world bosses and Anvil Rock never seems to bother with the temples….

I’m gonna advocate WvW – keep lord chests have Dragonite in it. I also swear I got some from the Tricolor Chest but I could be wrong. Also a few world boss events aren’t terribly bad. Shadow Behemoth, for instance, or the Frost Maw chain. Of course, that’s just my choice of fun ones.

On the other hand, there will be those who thrive on such things, and won’t be able to understand the perspective you’re putting forth. To them, doing things repetatively in order to obtain the top tier is the ‘standard’ for such games, and they have issues accepting not having the grind.

I think a lot of the former play style complaints will go away, if Anet heeds our cries for more means of acquisition. As I said in the CDI, let dungeoners dungeon. Let fractal runners play fractals. Let WvWer’s play WvW. Let event farmers use Karma. Just make it expensive to be on par with the crafting costs. Then, yes, it still requires some grind, but it is more a ‘your choice’ grind.

I’d rather see Ascended’s primary acquisition method to be Fractals, secondary being crafting, and longest method being getting the items via “Participation Rewards” (that is, Laurels or token drops during/from Living Story parts). That way you don’t have to do Fractals if you want to craft and if you find the materials too cumbersome to acquire and don’t want to spend gold you can either get friendly with Fractals or just wait it out.

Still say it’s less important since Fractals are still the place it matters most.

Leo Paul.1659:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Leo Paul.1659:

Your argument relies heavily on a vague definition of a grind. Whether one enjoys it or not is irrelevant, it’s simply doing repetitive tasks for new gear, which at this point (after doing it for a while), is what the OP is tired of. Please note that we are talking about ascended, your attempt at faulty generalization is impertinent to the topic.

A momentary caution. Grind is a vaguely defined term and usually is subjective to the person at hand. What one person finds “grindy as all heck” someone else might actually enjoy, or at least not be bothered by.

Yes, we are talking about the OP’s threshold of grind. But if we’re going to quibble that someone’s definition of grind is vague when it is . . . in itself, vague and subjective, we should acknowledge that detail.

Just go back to the OP’s POV on what grinding is. The fact that grinding can be enjoyable [for other people] isn’t the problem per se but the fact that the acquisition of a new tier is requiring him to repeat content that he has done several times already and serves no bigger purpose. Providing a different definition of grinding doesn’t help in this case.

Because I do not want to even think of farming for different tiers of cloth from mobs for ascended armors. Because I no longer want to repeat content I’ve done a thousand times before for an insignificant reward.

Point accepted. I still stand by my original point here – the tier in and of itself isn’t worth the hassle and it’s better to accept it’s not worth chasing and live without.

Also, really, hoping ANet DOES add other methods of acquiring armor.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Leo Paul.1659:

Your argument relies heavily on a vague definition of a grind. Whether one enjoys it or not is irrelevant, it’s simply doing old tasks again (repetitively) for new gear, which at this point (after doing it for a while), is what the OP is tired of. Please note that we are talking about ascended, your attempt at faulty generalization is impertinent to the topic.

Then, by your argument, the simple repeating of events in order to level is grind. Anything past the initial completion of the game on your first character is grind. Removing enjoyment as a factor, the choice to play, and therefore participate willingly in grind, is then solely your own and you may quit at any point which exceeds your threshold. No one is forcing people to play, nor are people forced to get the new gear.

The OP’s complaint is that she has to grind to get materials, by your logic absolutely everything she does is grind… as such, since it’s her choice to play, she doesn’t have anything to kitten about. Absolutely everything she does is repeatative, as it is the nature of a MMO, and therefore grind.

Again, this is in relation to a new tier of equipment. Please do not digress.

Danicco.3568:

I’m with OP, I am farming for my Ascended Gear (even weapons since I was taking a break when it was released) but I’m not really “enjoying” the game as I used to do…

Now, I log on and think “what am I farming today?”
Before the break, it was “what do I want to do today?”

You know, the idea of those Accound Bound Ascended Materials from various parts of the game (Champions, WvW/Dungeons, Bosses) is a great idea, but the part to spend hundreds of gold to level your crafting isn’t…

They could’ve just added more of it, or something more "adventure-sque " to it, but it’s just more grind grind grind.
Although I came back recently AND I have some new friends starting out might give me the push to keep playing, but I can say the interest/fun factor of playing clearly isn’t the same…

I have to agree with you Danicco, this is exactly how I am feeling when I log in now.
If DE’s rewarded more than champ trains, and the LS was actually fun maybe I would feel differently, unfortunately the need for gold / mats has overtaken the fun factor.

Not even sure what game GW2 is now.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Leo Paul.1659:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Leo Paul.1659:

Your argument relies heavily on a vague definition of a grind. Whether one enjoys it or not is irrelevant, it’s simply doing repetitive tasks for new gear, which at this point (after doing it for a while), is what the OP is tired of. Please note that we are talking about ascended, your attempt at faulty generalization is impertinent to the topic.

A momentary caution. Grind is a vaguely defined term and usually is subjective to the person at hand. What one person finds “grindy as all heck” someone else might actually enjoy, or at least not be bothered by.

Yes, we are talking about the OP’s threshold of grind. But if we’re going to quibble that someone’s definition of grind is vague when it is . . . in itself, vague and subjective, we should acknowledge that detail.

Just go back to the OP’s POV on what grinding is. The fact that grinding can be enjoyable [for other people] isn’t the problem per se but the fact that the acquisition of a new tier is requiring him to repeat content that he has done several times already and serves no bigger purpose. Providing a different definition of grinding doesn’t help in this case.

Because I do not want to even think of farming for different tiers of cloth from mobs for ascended armors. Because I no longer want to repeat content I’ve done a thousand times before for an insignificant reward.

Point accepted. I still stand by my original point here – the tier in and of itself isn’t worth the hassle and it’s better to accept it’s not worth chasing and live without.

Also, really, hoping ANet DOES add other methods of acquiring armor.

I agree. I have edited my post when you quoted me to include that I think they had the right idea when they introduced Guild Missions as a means to acquire ascended. It’s doing something new in order to get something new in return.

I also agree w/ lanfear as far as employing more (old) options/curencies such as karma in order to get ascended so that we can go back to “playing how we want” and relieve us from feeling forced to do things we do not particularly enjoy.

mergi.1407:

Danicco.3568:

I’m with OP, I am farming for my Ascended Gear (even weapons since I was taking a break when it was released) but I’m not really “enjoying” the game as I used to do…

Now, I log on and think “what am I farming today?”
Before the break, it was “what do I want to do today?”

You know, the idea of those Accound Bound Ascended Materials from various parts of the game (Champions, WvW/Dungeons, Bosses) is a great idea, but the part to spend hundreds of gold to level your crafting isn’t…

They could’ve just added more of it, or something more "adventure-sque " to it, but it’s just more grind grind grind.
Although I came back recently AND I have some new friends starting out might give me the push to keep playing, but I can say the interest/fun factor of playing clearly isn’t the same…

I have to agree with you Danicco, this is exactly how I am feeling when I log in now.
If DE’s rewarded more than champ trains, and the LS was actually fun maybe I would feel differently, unfortunately the need for gold / mats has overtaken the fun factor.

Not even sure what game GW2 is now.

Well if DEs awarded more than champ trains . . . there wouldn’t be champ trains, there’d be event trains. Such as there was in Cursed Shore. Which sucked a lot of people out of places and made it sometimes difficult to get credit for an event before it was crushed into finished by a rush of players.

Really, pick your poison. Whatever you make “more rewarding” is going to draw the people just in it for the phat lewt and other aspects will get ignored for not being rewarding enough.

Leo Paul.1659:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Leo Paul.1659:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Leo Paul.1659:

Your argument relies heavily on a vague definition of a grind. Whether one enjoys it or not is irrelevant, it’s simply doing repetitive tasks for new gear, which at this point (after doing it for a while), is what the OP is tired of. Please note that we are talking about ascended, your attempt at faulty generalization is impertinent to the topic.

A momentary caution. Grind is a vaguely defined term and usually is subjective to the person at hand. What one person finds “grindy as all heck” someone else might actually enjoy, or at least not be bothered by.

Yes, we are talking about the OP’s threshold of grind. But if we’re going to quibble that someone’s definition of grind is vague when it is . . . in itself, vague and subjective, we should acknowledge that detail.

Just go back to the OP’s POV on what grinding is. The fact that grinding can be enjoyable [for other people] isn’t the problem per se but the fact that the acquisition of a new tier is requiring him to repeat content that he has done several times already and serves no bigger purpose. Providing a different definition of grinding doesn’t help in this case.

Because I do not want to even think of farming for different tiers of cloth from mobs for ascended armors. Because I no longer want to repeat content I’ve done a thousand times before for an insignificant reward.

Point accepted. I still stand by my original point here – the tier in and of itself isn’t worth the hassle and it’s better to accept it’s not worth chasing and live without.

Also, really, hoping ANet DOES add other methods of acquiring armor.

I agree. I have edited my post when you quoted me to include that I think they had the right idea when they introduced Guild Missions as a means to acquire ascended. It’s doing something new in order to get something new in return.

I also agree w/ lanfear as far as employing more (old) options/curencies such as karma in order to get ascended so that we can go back to “playing how we want” and relieve us from feeling forced to do things we do not particularly enjoy.

Here’s hoping this gets stuck into the CDI somewhere where they are actively looking so it can be seen and possibly discussed

Because, honestly, I think they’re WELL AWARE they screwed up with how they handled the integration of Ascended gear (think there’s dev posts saying so) . . .

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

It’s the power boost. It’s a dinner bell for some people to rush and push to get to it. I’d go so far as to call it a conditioned response gamers in general have to seeing something which has slightly better stats which doesn’t require figuring out if there’s a downside to it.

It very much is a conditioned response. The desire for bigger numbers is also a conditioning we’ve received from other games. In those games the bigger numbers are a requirement; where as here, they are an option. People are unable to wrap their head around this because it’s very different from what they have been trained to expect and accept.

I’m gonna advocate WvW – keep lord chests have Dragonite in it. I also swear I got some from the Tricolor Chest but I could be wrong. Also a few world boss events aren’t terribly bad. Shadow Behemoth, for instance, or the Frost Maw chain. Of course, that’s just my choice of fun ones.

chuckle

Have you seen AR’s standing for WvW? Not to mention, when I was in there last week I got my kitten chewed because (as someone so politely put it) I “suck and should get the kitten out of their game mode.” No thanks, if I want to get kittened at… I’ll just go visit family.

I’d rather see Ascended’s primary acquisition method to be Fractals, secondary being crafting, and longest method being getting the items via “Participation Rewards” (that is, Laurels or token drops during/from Living Story parts). That way you don’t have to do Fractals if you want to craft and if you find the materials too cumbersome to acquire and don’t want to spend gold you can either get friendly with Fractals or just wait it out.

Still say it’s less important since Fractals are still the place it matters most.

More than just fractals runners desire the new tier at this point. I would prefer ascended be available through at least all the same means as exotics, just more expensive so that it meets anets ‘desire’ for a longer acquisition time, while still giving the gear grinders a carrot to chase. Keep it account bound, so it can’t be sold on the auction house, and anyone should still be able to acquire it just through whatever their ‘normal’ play style is, with enough time of course.

Leo Paul.1659:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Leo Paul.1659:

Your argument relies heavily on a vague definition of a grind. Whether one enjoys it or not is irrelevant, it’s simply doing old tasks again (repetitively) for new gear, which at this point (after doing it for a while), is what the OP is tired of. Please note that we are talking about ascended, your attempt at faulty generalization is impertinent to the topic.

Then, by your argument, the simple repeating of events in order to level is grind. Anything past the initial completion of the game on your first character is grind. Removing enjoyment as a factor, the choice to play, and therefore participate willingly in grind, is then solely your own and you may quit at any point which exceeds your threshold. No one is forcing people to play, nor are people forced to get the new gear.

The OP’s complaint is that she has to grind to get materials, by your logic absolutely everything she does is grind… as such, since it’s her choice to play, she doesn’t have anything to kitten about. Absolutely everything she does is repeatative, as it is the nature of a MMO, and therefore grind.

Again, this is in relation to a new tier of equipment. Please do not digress.

Ah but I’m not, because it’s her choice. It’s all choice. No one can make the choice to do, or not do, except the person facing the choice. By making the choice, she then enters into the grind she’s kittening about willingly, and only she can determine to see it through or not. Therefore, she has nothing to kitten about.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

chuckle

Have you seen AR’s standing for WvW? Not to mention, when I was in there last week I got my kitten chewed because (as someone so politely put it) I “suck and should get the kitten out of their game mode.” No thanks, if I want to get kittened at… I’ll just go visit family.

Sorry, SBI player here (and been there since launch) so I still see WvW as a viable way to earn stuff. I admit to a myopia on how easy other servers might be getting stuff. (And yes, that includes the Tier 1s also, because I hear their fights are less profitable but more technically pleasing.)

More than just fractals runners desire the new tier at this point. I would prefer ascended be available through at least all the same means as exotics, just more expensive so that it meets anets ‘desire’ for a longer acquisition time, while still giving the gear grinders a carrot to chase. Keep it account bound, so it can’t be sold on the auction house, and anyone should still be able to acquire it just through whatever their ‘normal’ play style is, with enough time of course.

Like I suggested:

Primary method: Fractals. Make it easiest to acquire through this method but still requiring some dedication.

Secondary method: Crafting. Make it easier to get materials through Laurel exchange or Living Story efforts, and the people who spent time leveling their crafting aren’t left out.

Longest method: Laurels or Token Exchanges. Flat transfer of, say, 25-35 Laurels for each piece but you don’t need to do crafting for anything or set foot in Fractals if you don’t want to. If you WvW heavily, a stack of Badges can substitute for 5-15 Laurels. Now you don’t have to scrounge crafting materials, you just . . . you know, play the game.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Leo Paul.1659:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Leo Paul.1659:

Your argument relies heavily on a vague definition of a grind. Whether one enjoys it or not is irrelevant, it’s simply doing old tasks again (repetitively) for new gear, which at this point (after doing it for a while), is what the OP is tired of. Please note that we are talking about ascended, your attempt at faulty generalization is impertinent to the topic.

Then, by your argument, the simple repeating of events in order to level is grind. Anything past the initial completion of the game on your first character is grind. Removing enjoyment as a factor, the choice to play, and therefore participate willingly in grind, is then solely your own and you may quit at any point which exceeds your threshold. No one is forcing people to play, nor are people forced to get the new gear.

The OP’s complaint is that she has to grind to get materials, by your logic absolutely everything she does is grind… as such, since it’s her choice to play, she doesn’t have anything to kitten about. Absolutely everything she does is repeatative, as it is the nature of a MMO, and therefore grind.

Again, this is in relation to a new tier of equipment. Please do not digress.

Ah but I’m not, because it’s her choice. It’s all choice. No one can make the choice to do, or not do, except the person facing the choice. By making the choice, she then enters into the grind she’s kittening about willingly, and only she can determine to see it through or not. Therefore, she has nothing to kitten about.

And that’s why the OP is dissatisfied, his post implies that the choices offered are (either) poorly implemented and/or restrictive. That is something that warrants “kittening” imho especially when there is room for improvement.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Longest method: Laurels or Token Exchanges. Flat transfer of, say, 25-35 Laurels for each piece but you don’t need to do crafting for anything or set foot in Fractals if you don’t want to. If you WvW heavily, a stack of Badges can substitute for 5-15 Laurels. Now you don’t have to scrounge crafting materials, you just . . . you know, play the game.

Yeah I caught this, but don’t quite agree with it. Not everyone does dailies, or wants to have to do dailies every day (have you not seen the gripes about this recently?)

We don’t need yet another currency, so that would kill your token exchange. (People have had a lot of gripes about the number of currencies we currently have since… well forever).

My thought just uses the currencies we already have. Badges in WvW, dungeon tokens, karma, etc. Then people can simply play and not have to worry if they’ve done their daily, or their monthly, or whatever special thing they need to get the new currency.

Leo Paul.1659:

And that’s why the OP is dissatisfied, his post implies that the choices offered are (either) poorly implemented and/or restrictive. That is something that warrants “kittening” imho especially when there is room for improvement.

I won’t argue with it being restrictive, and yes that is a reason to kitten. I do agree there. I’ve been among the many asking for and discussing the various means of rectifying the issue.

The issue with the OP’s unhappiness boils down to not desiring to grind (restrictive or otherwise). We have since determined that absolutely everything is grind, and therefore the choice to play entails the player’s willing acceptance of participation in grind. Thus, as it is a choice, they only gripe a person technically has is with themself for making the choice to grind. Essentially, we’re chasing ourselves in a circle, unless we add in factors such as enjoyment, at which point it still boils down to play style and choice, and I will reiterate that the ascended tier is still completely optional.

“optional.”
everything in the world is optional. also life is just an option. eating is an option.
and so on. there’s always another option.

everybody agrees that for any mmoplayer, also a minimum stat increase on a new item is a dinner call. you told that.
so, if they care so much, it must be important.
if it wasn’t so important, anet would’t bother to release ascend.
why just do’t go on with new map parts or new bosses?
because grinders need somthing to grind for. and just a skin is not sufficient. the asked for it.

the same, at the opposite, for casuals like me, who absolutely DON’T want that item stats increase. we just don’t have enough time to grind for it. even if i had that time, i would spend it listening to music or going out. we just want to spend that 5hours a week. period.
we feel betrayed as anet declared we were their main target, and to show it created a manifesto, to lure all of us who can’t afford that time and want to be always on par with other players and challenges gw2 offers.
even a plus 1 power is out of this pov.

then , it’s important for both of them?
yeah.

so stop calling ascended completely optional and skippable. it affects both parts.

Kevan.8912:

“optional.”
everything in the world is optional. also life is just an option. eating is an option.
and so on. there’s always another option.

everybody agrees that for any mmoplayer, also a minimum stat increase on a new item is a dinner call. you told that.
so, if they care so much, it must be important.
if it wasn’t so important, anet would’t bother to release ascend.
why just do’t go on with new map parts or new bosses?
because grinders need somthing to grind for. and just a skin is not sufficient. the asked for it.

the same, at the opposite, for casuals like me, who absolutely DON’T want that item stats increase. we just don’t have enough time to grind for it. even if i had that time, i would spend it listening to music or going out. we just want to spend that 5hours a week. period.
we feel betrayed as anet declared we were their main target, and to show it created a manifesto, to lure all of us who can’t afford that time and want to be always on par with other players and challenges gw2 offers.
even a plus 1 power is out of this pov.

then , it’s important for both of them?
yeah.

so stop calling ascended completely optional and skippable. it affects both parts.

It’s totally skippable. I skipped the weapon grind entirely until WvW dropped on in my lap on a bonus chest. Didn’t hurt me any I was missing one, and if I’d never gotten to craft it or as a drop I wouldn’t have cared. Ditto for Legendary items because I despise the skins for the weapon types I’d use.

Seriously. There isn’t anything PvE side, beyond Fractals 10+, which is suddenly not viable for you to do because you don’t have Ascended. PvP it doesn’t matter since the gear is all normalized. WvW it doesn’t matter because permastealthed thieves still will kill you.

Kevan.8912:

“optional.”
everything in the world is optional. also life is just an option. eating is an option.
and so on. there’s always another option.

everybody agrees that for any mmoplayer, also a minimum stat increase on a new item is a dinner call. you told that.
so, if they care so much, it must be important.
if it wasn’t so important, anet would’t bother to release ascend.
why just do’t go on with new map parts or new bosses?
because grinders need somthing to grind for. and just a skin is not sufficient. the asked for it.

the same, at the opposite, for casuals like me, who absolutely DON’T want that item stats increase.
then , it’s important for both of them?
yeah.

so stop calling ascended completely optional and skippable. it affects both parts.

They are optional, and it is a choice to chase it. The stat increase is minimal and not a game changer by any means. The AR you could obtain by crafting the weapon and armor could be applied to a single ring or the back piece if you took the time to build the infusion and then apply it. Its expensive, but so is crafting ascended. Pick your poison.

I am also a casual player. I have only opted to work on ascended as it gives me a long term goal to shoot for (and an excuse to level my crafting for the achievements). For the most part I play the game in rares and its a cake walk. If I never get ascended it won’t change a kitten thing, I’ll still be playing right along just the same.

You really are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Yes, ascended was added so that those conditioned to gear grind (and the people hollering for more gear tiers) would have something to chase. They did it for player retention purposes, a stop gap measure. Nothing more, nothing less. However, I must applaud how they did it. They could have gone WoW’s route, and totally blown exotics out of the water. At which point ascended would have been mandatory, but no, the difference is minimal which makes ascended gear optional. There is nothing that you cannot do without it.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Yeah I caught this, but don’t quite agree with it. Not everyone does dailies, or wants to have to do dailies every day (have you not seen the gripes about this recently?)

The gripes have been going ever since the game started, first how there wasn’t any reason to do them short of the points . . . then after they dropped a Jug of Karma in the rewards, how it was now suddenly required to do anything.

It’s why I said Living Story as another thought – if you’re going to add something to entice people towards doing your content, let them pick and choose which they want to do. Dailies are incredibly flexible and can be done relatively quickly, fitting into the 4-5 hour a week window a lot of people have been bringing up.

We don’t need yet another currency, so that would kill your token exchange. (People have had a lot of gripes about the number of currencies we currently have since… well forever).

And I repeat the same thing to those gripes from long ago: did they not play GW1 with the VAST amount of trophy tokens going on? We have LESS in GW2.

My thought just uses the currencies we already have. Badges in WvW, dungeon tokens, karma, etc. Then people can simply play and not have to worry if they’ve done their daily, or their monthly, or whatever special thing they need to get the new currency.

I’d rather it not be something people can farm incredible amounts of and get in a week, to prevent people from complaining they’re forced to grind to keep up with the joneses. That’s what Laurels seemed driven to – everyone gets a Laurel a day in exchange for 1-3hrs of devotion. Nobody is getting things faster than that with the all-weekend no-sleep feeding-tube grind session.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Playing devil’s advocate again.

It’s not about doing them, it’s about the amount of doing them. It’s doing them past the point where it’s fun for them and more “gotta do it again or else…”

And it’s a case of a lot of people having different thresholds for how they feel about repeating things. For instance, I enjoy repeating certain events over again because they’re fun for me to do. And some other events I simply DO NOT enjoy and feel more like chores.

(Solo doing the water pump event chain, because nobody else does, for instance. JUST to shut up the NPCs complaining about the water.)

Devil’s advocate? Oh no. My opinion is very firmly in the “Ascended is not only not required, but it’s not that hard to get”.

Regular mats can be obtained many ways. The first way being regular old mob killing. But you also can get them from exploring maps, laurel crafting bags, dungeons, WvW, gathering, or simply using gold. Heck, just being able to buy the regular mats opens more doors. Instead of aiming for getting the mats off mobs, you can focus on getting gold instead.

How about the ascended mats then? Dragonite ore. World bosses, Karka and the temples. You can also get them in WvW, though I understand not as easily. There’s also guild missions. And lastly scarlet minions, even if failed. Bloodstone dust. Champion loot bags. So world bosses, champ trains, dungeons. Empyreal fragments. Any open world chests, including JP and min-dungeons. guild missions, fractals, WvW, and exp dungeons.

So I’m confused as to how exactly they are a grind when there are so many ways to get them. Unless you hate exploring, dungeons, WvW, JPs, world events/bosses, champions.

Are you going to get everything you need in one day? No, and you’re not supposed to. Is a month a long time to finish a full set of BiS gear, while still being able to do all content (besides what, 50+ fractals?), a long time?

That being said, I don’t think implementing other methods of getting them is a bad idea. I just don’t think the current way is a long, arduous task. Ascended didn’t suddenly turn GW into a Korean, treadmill grinder. I have played those, and having only certain groups of mobs to kill in order to level is a grind. Having multiple ways to get various mats isn’t.

Also, sorry. I type a lot sometimes.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Leo Paul.1659:

And that’s why the OP is dissatisfied, his post implies that the choices offered are (either) poorly implemented and/or restrictive. That is something that warrants “kittening” imho especially when there is room for improvement.

I won’t argue with it being restrictive, and yes that is a reason to kitten. I do agree there. I’ve been among the many asking for and discussing the various means of rectifying the issue.

The issue with the OP’s unhappiness boils down to not desiring to grind (restrictive or otherwise). We have since determined that absolutely everything is grind, and therefore the choice to play entails the player’s willing acceptance of participation in grind. Thus, as it is a choice, they only gripe a person technically has is with themself for making the choice to grind. Essentially, we’re chasing ourselves in a circle, unless we add in factors such as enjoyment, at which point it still boils down to play style and choice, and I will reiterate that the ascended tier is still completely optional.

Not quite. It’s grinding old content all over again for the sake of an optional (i’d really rather say pointless) new gear after doing it for so long already. Had it really been introduced from the start, it wouldn’t feel so tedious.