Guild Wars 2

Ayrilana.1396:

Cuddy.6247:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cuddy.6247:

hybrid.5027:

Lady Elvea.2847:

When I started on GW2 Legendaries cost something like 600g on the TP. That seemed astronomical to me at the time, but it was something I felt I could still work towards eventually and it was just a small segment of the market. Now that I actually could buy an item at that price, I can’t even buy most of the precursors because their prices have skyrocketed… and the number of other items that do cost around 600g has increased exponentially.

That does worry me a little from time to time.

Don’t worry because it’s not true. There was never a 600g legendary on the TP and so once that premise is eliminated your whole “omg inflation” story is pretty weak.

Hopefully they meant Precursors, which have suffered from a great deal of inflation.

Inflation does affect specific items. Precursor prices have been pretty stable.

What GW2 game have you been playing and how do I play that one?

Dusk
http://puu.sh/dqN9c/5e3486429b.png

Twilight
http://puu.sh/dqNbO/4fb1dc2f2e.png

Tell me how those Dusk prices are stable. Tell me.

I was referring to stable price in relation to inflation since that is after all what this thread was about although the term was improperly used.

What? Inflation wasn’t used incorrectly at all in this thread. Inflation is the general increase in price of goods/services. If you’re looking to define it with more foundation, inflation means that currency buys less of a percentage over time. It’s not exclusive from supply/demand, in fact, supply/demand and value perception cause inflation.

So…you’re completely wrong, precursors have been hit hard by inflation – being 300% of their value 2 years ago.

Whatever concept of relativism you think you’re interpreting, you’re not interpreting. Sorry.

hybrid.5027:

Don’t worry because it’s not true. There was never a 600g legendary on the TP and so once that premise is eliminated your whole “omg inflation” story is pretty weak.

Even a cursory glance at gw2spidy shows that in fact there were such sale offers. Just try to look at things other than Twilight or Sunrise.

jweez.7214:

Ascended items were never ment for the average player.

Yes. This is a problem.

Cuddy.6247:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cuddy.6247:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cuddy.6247:

hybrid.5027:

Lady Elvea.2847:

When I started on GW2 Legendaries cost something like 600g on the TP. That seemed astronomical to me at the time, but it was something I felt I could still work towards eventually and it was just a small segment of the market. Now that I actually could buy an item at that price, I can’t even buy most of the precursors because their prices have skyrocketed… and the number of other items that do cost around 600g has increased exponentially.

That does worry me a little from time to time.

Don’t worry because it’s not true. There was never a 600g legendary on the TP and so once that premise is eliminated your whole “omg inflation” story is pretty weak.

Hopefully they meant Precursors, which have suffered from a great deal of inflation.

Inflation does affect specific items. Precursor prices have been pretty stable.

What GW2 game have you been playing and how do I play that one?

Dusk
http://puu.sh/dqN9c/5e3486429b.png

Twilight
http://puu.sh/dqNbO/4fb1dc2f2e.png

Tell me how those Dusk prices are stable. Tell me.

I was referring to stable price in relation to inflation since that is after all what this thread was about although the term was improperly used.

What? Inflation wasn’t used incorrectly at all in this thread. Inflation is the general increase in price of goods/services. If you’re looking to define it with more foundation, inflation means that currency buys less of a percentage over time. It’s not exclusive from supply/demand, in fact, supply/demand and value perception cause inflation.

So…you’re completely wrong, precursors have been hit hard by inflation – being 300% of their value 2 years ago.

Whatever concept of relativism you think you’re interpreting, you’re not interpreting. Sorry.

Price level increase of general goods not for specific goods such as precursors. You do not measure inflation on luxury items.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation

Cuddy.6247:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cuddy.6247:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cuddy.6247:

hybrid.5027:

Lady Elvea.2847:

When I started on GW2 Legendaries cost something like 600g on the TP. That seemed astronomical to me at the time, but it was something I felt I could still work towards eventually and it was just a small segment of the market. Now that I actually could buy an item at that price, I can’t even buy most of the precursors because their prices have skyrocketed… and the number of other items that do cost around 600g has increased exponentially.

That does worry me a little from time to time.

Don’t worry because it’s not true. There was never a 600g legendary on the TP and so once that premise is eliminated your whole “omg inflation” story is pretty weak.

Hopefully they meant Precursors, which have suffered from a great deal of inflation.

Inflation does affect specific items. Precursor prices have been pretty stable.

What GW2 game have you been playing and how do I play that one?

Dusk
http://puu.sh/dqN9c/5e3486429b.png

Twilight
http://puu.sh/dqNbO/4fb1dc2f2e.png

Tell me how those Dusk prices are stable. Tell me.

I was referring to stable price in relation to inflation since that is after all what this thread was about although the term was improperly used.

What? Inflation wasn’t used incorrectly at all in this thread. Inflation is the general increase in price of goods/services. If you’re looking to define it with more foundation, inflation means that currency buys less of a percentage over time. It’s not exclusive from supply/demand, in fact, supply/demand and value perception cause inflation.

So…you’re completely wrong, precursors have been hit hard by inflation – being 300% of their value 2 years ago.

Whatever concept of relativism you think you’re interpreting, you’re not interpreting. Sorry.

The general idea of inflation is that currency buys less over time, yes. But supply/demand also effect inflation. “Low or moderate inflation may be attributed to fluctuations in real demand for goods and services, or changes in available supplies such as during scarcities.” and “if people buy much more cucumbers than tomatoes, which consequently become cheaper, it does not correspond to the inflation – it is a simple shift of tastes.”(From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation)

However, what is generally referred to here as inflation is the idea that there is such a massive influx of gold into the game, that it becomes worth less as many people have an over abundance, which allows them to sell items for a much higher rate. And thus only the TP Barons, and rich people can afford to do anything in the game. It is also commonly believed that the prices on the TP are set by Anet. Which if that were the case, then the TP prices are a reflection of how much gold is in the economy at any given time. (While an increase of currency is a part of inflation, it is not the whole).

What the main argument here is that inflation (in the sense of increased gold into the economy) is the sole cause of increased prices, and not the supply and demand. As in the example of the cucumbers and tomatoes, if people are buy cucumbers and not tomatoes, the price of cucumbers increases as there is more demand, but the price of tomatoes decreases due to a lack of demand. In such cases its not inflation. In GW2 terms, percursors, T6 and silk are very high demand items and thus have an increasing price. Whereas items like Aether chest keys are not, and sell for dirt cheap.

If inflation were taking place on the level that people are claiming it to be. You would see the same increase of prices over all the items, and not just a select few. Elder wood logs also would have gone up considerably, but I think they actually dropped some.

There is quite a difference between primary acquired items and secondary acquired items. Primary acquired items allow for supply to promptly balance demand, while secondary acquired items are subject to modified supply. Thus price fluctuations of the two are not really equatable.

examples) node materials vs giant eyes

Cuddy.6247:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cuddy.6247:

hybrid.5027:

Lady Elvea.2847:

When I started on GW2 Legendaries cost something like 600g on the TP. That seemed astronomical to me at the time, but it was something I felt I could still work towards eventually and it was just a small segment of the market. Now that I actually could buy an item at that price, I can’t even buy most of the precursors because their prices have skyrocketed… and the number of other items that do cost around 600g has increased exponentially.

That does worry me a little from time to time.

Don’t worry because it’s not true. There was never a 600g legendary on the TP and so once that premise is eliminated your whole “omg inflation” story is pretty weak.

Hopefully they meant Precursors, which have suffered from a great deal of inflation.

Inflation does affect specific items. Precursor prices have been pretty stable.

What GW2 game have you been playing and how do I play that one?

Dusk
http://puu.sh/dqN9c/5e3486429b.png

Twilight
http://puu.sh/dqNbO/4fb1dc2f2e.png

Tell me how those Dusk prices are stable. Tell me.

Both have actually steadily lost value since August, if you have a closer look. Just like most other precursors. Thats over four months of continous price decline and people still complain that precursors are getting more expensive.

Utter rubbish.

Wanze.8410:

Cuddy.6247:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cuddy.6247:

hybrid.5027:

Lady Elvea.2847:

When I started on GW2 Legendaries cost something like 600g on the TP. That seemed astronomical to me at the time, but it was something I felt I could still work towards eventually and it was just a small segment of the market. Now that I actually could buy an item at that price, I can’t even buy most of the precursors because their prices have skyrocketed… and the number of other items that do cost around 600g has increased exponentially.

That does worry me a little from time to time.

Don’t worry because it’s not true. There was never a 600g legendary on the TP and so once that premise is eliminated your whole “omg inflation” story is pretty weak.

Hopefully they meant Precursors, which have suffered from a great deal of inflation.

Inflation does affect specific items. Precursor prices have been pretty stable.

What GW2 game have you been playing and how do I play that one?

Dusk
http://puu.sh/dqN9c/5e3486429b.png

Twilight
http://puu.sh/dqNbO/4fb1dc2f2e.png

Tell me how those Dusk prices are stable. Tell me.

Both have actually steadily lost value since August, if you have a closer look. Just like most other precursors. Thats over four months of continous price decline and people still complain that precursors are getting more expensive.

Utter rubbish.

But…but…inflation! :P

Using decline from a spike as evidence to counter inflation is disingenuous. I’m not saying there is or is not inflation, just that the posts using such are just as disingenuous as those using the upswing of a spike to clamor inflation.

Wanze.8410:

Cuddy.6247:

Ayrilana.1396:

Cuddy.6247:

hybrid.5027:

Lady Elvea.2847:

When I started on GW2 Legendaries cost something like 600g on the TP. That seemed astronomical to me at the time, but it was something I felt I could still work towards eventually and it was just a small segment of the market. Now that I actually could buy an item at that price, I can’t even buy most of the precursors because their prices have skyrocketed… and the number of other items that do cost around 600g has increased exponentially.

That does worry me a little from time to time.

Don’t worry because it’s not true. There was never a 600g legendary on the TP and so once that premise is eliminated your whole “omg inflation” story is pretty weak.

Hopefully they meant Precursors, which have suffered from a great deal of inflation.

Inflation does affect specific items. Precursor prices have been pretty stable.

What GW2 game have you been playing and how do I play that one?

Dusk
http://puu.sh/dqN9c/5e3486429b.png

Twilight
http://puu.sh/dqNbO/4fb1dc2f2e.png

Tell me how those Dusk prices are stable. Tell me.

Both have actually steadily lost value since August, if you have a closer look. Just like most other precursors. Thats over four months of continous price decline and people still complain that precursors are getting more expensive.

Utter rubbish.

Oh, I get it! People put actual facts in front of you, and you simply choose to see what you want to see. No wonder these arguments never go anywhere. The people who are wrong just make kitten up!

August 10 – 1351g
Sept 10 – 1313g
Oct 10 – 1225g
Nov 10 – 1305g
Dec 10 – 1339 g

That is in now way a steady decline. Not only you’re neglecting the previous 2 years of data, but you’re also ignoring the fact that it cost over 1300g.

I think there are some billy goats trying to cross your bridge.

cthaeh.2168:

Oh, I get it! People put actual facts in front of you, and you simply choose to see what you want to see. No wonder these arguments never go anywhere. The people who are wrong just make kitten up!

August 10 – 1351g
Sept 10 – 1313g
Oct 10 – 1225g
Nov 10 – 1305g
Dec 10 – 1339 g

That is in now way a steady decline. Not only you’re neglecting the previous 2 years of data, but you’re also ignoring the fact that it cost over 1300g.

I think there are some billy goats trying to cross your bridge.

You are ignoring the fact that 1351g>1339g.
Those prices are with a variation of 10% incredibly stable. In the same timeframe, ectos and t6 mats variated mostly around 20%, t5 mats over 40%

Wanze.8410:

cthaeh.2168:

Oh, I get it! People put actual facts in front of you, and you simply choose to see what you want to see. No wonder these arguments never go anywhere. The people who are wrong just make kitten up!

August 10 – 1351g
Sept 10 – 1313g
Oct 10 – 1225g
Nov 10 – 1305g
Dec 10 – 1339 g

That is in now way a steady decline. Not only you’re neglecting the previous 2 years of data, but you’re also ignoring the fact that it cost over 1300g.

I think there are some billy goats trying to cross your bridge.

You are ignoring the fact that 1351g>1339g.
Those prices are with a variation of 10% incredibly stable. In the same timeframe, ectos and t6 mats variated mostly around 20%, t5 mats over 40%

So, someone accuses you of cherry picking and lying, and your response is…cherry picking and lying? Brilliant! Thank you for only further validating my point.

I’m not ignoring anything. 1225g < 1305g <1339 g. Two of your 4 months of steady decline are steady increases. And I never said anything about T6 mats, so trying to redirect the conversation away from how wrong you are won’t get you anywhere.

Here, I don’t have the time to endlessly point your flaws. That would be a full time job. Instead of replying, simply replace what I would normally say with a random choice from https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/. I’m sure your argument will be full of whichever one you choose.

cthaeh.2168:

Wanze.8410:

cthaeh.2168:

Oh, I get it! People put actual facts in front of you, and you simply choose to see what you want to see. No wonder these arguments never go anywhere. The people who are wrong just make kitten up!

August 10 – 1351g
Sept 10 – 1313g
Oct 10 – 1225g
Nov 10 – 1305g
Dec 10 – 1339 g

That is in now way a steady decline. Not only you’re neglecting the previous 2 years of data, but you’re also ignoring the fact that it cost over 1300g.

I think there are some billy goats trying to cross your bridge.

You are ignoring the fact that 1351g>1339g.
Those prices are with a variation of 10% incredibly stable. In the same timeframe, ectos and t6 mats variated mostly around 20%, t5 mats over 40%

So, someone accuses you of cherry picking and lying, and your response is…cherry picking and lying? Brilliant! Thank you for only further validating my point.

I’m not ignoring anything. 1225g < 1305g <1339 g. Two of your 4 months of steady decline are steady increases. And I never said anything about T6 mats, so trying to redirect the conversation away from how wrong you are won’t get you anywhere.

Here, I don’t have the time to endlessly point your flaws. That would be a full time job. Instead of replying, simply replace what I would normally say with a random choice from https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/. I’m sure your argument will be full of whichever one you choose.

Yeah must be inflation then, i guess.
If that kind of inflation is too high for you for a precursor, you have the option to buy Rage for under 80g.

cthaeh.2168:

Wanze.8410:

cthaeh.2168:

Oh, I get it! People put actual facts in front of you, and you simply choose to see what you want to see. No wonder these arguments never go anywhere. The people who are wrong just make kitten up!

August 10 – 1351g
Sept 10 – 1313g
Oct 10 – 1225g
Nov 10 – 1305g
Dec 10 – 1339 g

That is in now way a steady decline. Not only you’re neglecting the previous 2 years of data, but you’re also ignoring the fact that it cost over 1300g.

I think there are some billy goats trying to cross your bridge.

You are ignoring the fact that 1351g>1339g.
Those prices are with a variation of 10% incredibly stable. In the same timeframe, ectos and t6 mats variated mostly around 20%, t5 mats over 40%

So, someone accuses you of cherry picking and lying, and your response is…cherry picking and lying? Brilliant! Thank you for only further validating my point.

I’m not ignoring anything. 1225g < 1305g <1339 g. Two of your 4 months of steady decline are steady increases. And I never said anything about T6 mats, so trying to redirect the conversation away from how wrong you are won’t get you anywhere.

Here, I don’t have the time to endlessly point your flaws. That would be a full time job. Instead of replying, simply replace what I would normally say with a random choice from https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/. I’m sure your argument will be full of whichever one you choose.

I don’t know if this is ironic or sad.

cthaeh.2168:

Wanze.8410:

cthaeh.2168:

Oh, I get it! People put actual facts in front of you, and you simply choose to see what you want to see. No wonder these arguments never go anywhere. The people who are wrong just make kitten up!

August 10 – 1351g
Sept 10 – 1313g
Oct 10 – 1225g
Nov 10 – 1305g
Dec 10 – 1339 g

That is in now way a steady decline. Not only you’re neglecting the previous 2 years of data, but you’re also ignoring the fact that it cost over 1300g.

I think there are some billy goats trying to cross your bridge.

You are ignoring the fact that 1351g>1339g.
Those prices are with a variation of 10% incredibly stable. In the same timeframe, ectos and t6 mats variated mostly around 20%, t5 mats over 40%

So, someone accuses you of cherry picking and lying, and your response is…cherry picking and lying? Brilliant! Thank you for only further validating my point.

I’m not ignoring anything. 1225g < 1305g <1339 g. Two of your 4 months of steady decline are steady increases. And I never said anything about T6 mats, so trying to redirect the conversation away from how wrong you are won’t get you anywhere.

Here, I don’t have the time to endlessly point your flaws. That would be a full time job. Instead of replying, simply replace what I would normally say with a random choice from https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/. I’m sure your argument will be full of whichever one you choose.

Oh the irony. What you also forget is how the patch is affecting the demand. Due to the convenience given to legendaries during asc patch, there are more people trying to make legendaries than before. Supply remains the same, yet the demand goes up => as a result, price goes up (until it reach equilibrium). Look at the price of any prec wpn pre patch, tell us again if you see any inflation there. The price has been going up currently only because of what i explained before.

If indeed inflation is happening, the whole market would see a trend of increasing price, not just on things that are affected by patch. NOW GO BACK TO FARMING!

it’s difficult to know whether rising gold prices for many traded commodities are due to real inflation (growth in the gold supply that outstrips demand for gold, which can be caused by many different things in a video game) or due to simple supply and demand of traded commodities,

(1) because ANet doesn’t publish the stats on gold creation versus gold sinks; and,

(2) because ANet can release patches at a whim that alter stats, introduce new items, change drop rates, etc. that affect the market forces that determine commodity prices.

but the practical effect is that gold is a poor store of value regardless of cause. whether it is really inflation of the money (gold) supply or changes in the supply and demand of commodities caused by a number of other variables (including patches, player population, etc.): bottom line, players that tend to save gold and play less will find their accumulated wealth less and less valuable, with less and less purchasing power. players that tend to transform gold into other commodities that actually increase in value on the whole and play more frequently, can beat the market.

hybrid.5027:

joneb.5679:

Im not pulling punches here but the original GW1 used to have prompts for taking a break afer a few hours of play. This game doesn’t. It seems an unhealthy lifestyle of intense gaming seems to be whats being built on and pushed here. Gamers seem to think its okay to give the game so many hours, nay days, of their lives over to play the game or to work at it like a job farming, grinding for gold, materials etc.

Now that is an odd way to describe the most casual MMO on the market.

MMO’s are time sinks, even this one, if one is a player who wants to sink time into a game.

Essence Snow.3194:

Using decline from a spike as evidence to counter inflation is disingenuous. I’m not saying there is or is not inflation, just that the posts using such are just as disingenuous as those using the upswing of a spike to clamor inflation.

The spike was caused by the increased demand from wardrobe changes and has nothing to do with inflation. Are you purposely trying to ignore that or have you learned absolutely nothing from your months of trolling the BLTC forums?

You don’t need ascended armor to play the game. I have one ascended armor piece on one character and I’m doing just fine.

There are a lot of cheap options for exotic level armor and gear, and as long as you have those you can do almost any of the content in game without noticing issues.

You don’t even really need specific armor/weapon variants like berserker’s or rabid and all that. Those are fine tuning elements that aren’t required to successfully complete content.

In fact I don’t even think about traits on my PvE characters until I reach level 80. Even traits aren’t required to complete most content in the game.

Mo Mo.1947:

You don’t need ascended armor to play the game. I have one ascended armor piece on one character and I’m doing just fine.

There are a lot of cheap options for exotic level armor and gear, and as long as you have those you can do almost any of the content in game without noticing issues.

You don’t even really need specific armor/weapon variants like berserker’s or rabid and all that. Those are fine tuning elements that aren’t required to successfully complete content.

In fact I don’t even think about traits on my PvE characters until I reach level 80. Even traits aren’t required to complete most content in the game.

While thats true, thats not the point the OP is trying to make. In this form of progression, whether it’s ascended for stats or skins, or legendaries for skins and effects, the prices involved are increasing, for a variety of reasons, and that makes it more difficult for the average player to obtain.

While many disagree that it is “inflation” that is causing the prices to rise, they do agree in general that it does take some time and effort even for a causal player to obtain these things.

CMF.5461:

I upgrade full stacks to higher tiers when capped out on lower level mats.

try to mystic forge on the off chance for a precursor.

1) in most cases, except for half of the t5’s, half of the time, promoting costs more than the value of the end result,

2) cut out mystic forge play, those are your biggest single item source of gold. Remember, most players of the forge lose, and the high rollers are already wealthy.. Gambling is the blight of the poor.

Otherwise, keep on playing! If you have everything you need, does it matter?

I have 3 sets of ascended armor and use an exotic set most of the time on my main, because i find it doesn’t make any appreciable difference. Ascended is a gold sink for people who already have everything..you’re not missing out. Heck, I don’t even use the skins.

Side note: not inflation.

You can’t use any single item or even group of items to measure inflation in this game, its a silly concept. Mystic coins have gone up from under 1s to almost 4s in the course of a few days since the achievement update announcment. Does that mean the value of currency got cut into a 4th? of course not. Supply and demand for items determines good and commodity prices way way way more than the purchasing power of gold.

There are two things that determine inflation or deflation of gold as a currency.

In-game rewards such as dungeons or looted coin and real world money converted from gems into gold. In other words gold that doesn’t come from a player and is created out of thin digital air. A concept that escapes alot of people is that base line in-game rewards will always be “lackluster”. They are the base-line of how fast gold is created making it the base-line of the rate inflation. The barrier to entry to farm/speed clear is low, almost anyone can pick it up and do it. Its the minimum wage job of gw2. Kicking the value of these rewards up will only inflate the currency until you are right back to where the reward was in the first place, lackluster.

Gold is removed from the game via trade post taxes, gold to gem purchases, waypoint fees, and other npc direct cost items and fees. This is the base line deflation mechanism. Something that this game does very well over others that do not have good deflation mechanisms and let the inflation of their currency balloon to ridiculousness making in game rewards totally pointless.

The net rate of these is what determines the inflation or deflation of gold. Unfortunately Anet doesn’t release any stats on on the creation or destruction of gold. Measuring inflation would not be possible. That being said. It appears to be a stable (not to be confused with the most profitable) way to store value.

Anet actually has very little control over the economy. They can only control the rates of supply production. The players control actual production and the demand. We are largely responsible for how the state of the economy is. The economy is driven by people not lines of code. If you want scarce resources and luxury you have to compete for them as there is not enough for everyone. The best way to do that will always be competing for control of the gold already in circulation by critically thinking, planning, being on top of information of upcoming updates, taking risks, and winning via the market.

In short. Its not inflation. Its the properties of supply and demand of luxury items designed to keep people playing. If there was enough for everyone and obtainable for the average player, they wouldn’t be luxury items.

Anet, can we pleeeease have the Trading Forum back??

As for inflation, it’s complicated. Patches affect gold income but also affect demand. Precursor prices are stable, due to their unafforability, and inflation isn’t just measured by precursors.

There can only be inflation if there was an actual cost to play. But in theory (and even in practice, if you’re frugal enough) your earnings will always far out pace your costs. You can literally play this game without ever spending a single copper. The most basic cost to play now (after removal of repair) is waypoint costs, which you’ll eventually occur on death, although if you patiently lay dead, you will eventually get rez’d.

I respect John and his battle with costs for stuff (TP/BLTC) it’s gotta be pretty darn cool to be able to look at the economy and make rules/decision on drop rates and such. But (and i’m totally guilty of this) blaming the inflation model for a game that cost absolutely nothing in game currency to play is not helping.

Mostly the area i’d like to see helped is the gem exchange rate, but hey, since i give away gold to people on our server, it’s nice to offer a big pot for 50 bucks.

munkiman.3068:

There can only be inflation if there was an actual cost to play. But in theory (and even in practice, if you’re frugal enough) your earnings will always far out pace your costs. You can literally play this game without ever spending a single copper. The most basic cost to play now (after removal of repair) is waypoint costs, which you’ll eventually occur on death, although if you patiently lay dead, you will eventually get rez’d.

I respect John and his battle with costs for stuff (TP/BLTC) it’s gotta be pretty darn cool to be able to look at the economy and make rules/decision on drop rates and such. But (and i’m totally guilty of this) blaming the inflation model for a game that cost absolutely nothing in game currency to play is not helping.

Mostly the area i’d like to see helped is the gem exchange rate, but hey, since i give away gold to people on our server, it’s nice to offer a big pot for 50 bucks.

The gem exchange rate is 100% player driven.

eithinan.9841:

munkiman.3068:

There can only be inflation if there was an actual cost to play. But in theory (and even in practice, if you’re frugal enough) your earnings will always far out pace your costs. You can literally play this game without ever spending a single copper. The most basic cost to play now (after removal of repair) is waypoint costs, which you’ll eventually occur on death, although if you patiently lay dead, you will eventually get rez’d.

I respect John and his battle with costs for stuff (TP/BLTC) it’s gotta be pretty darn cool to be able to look at the economy and make rules/decision on drop rates and such. But (and i’m totally guilty of this) blaming the inflation model for a game that cost absolutely nothing in game currency to play is not helping.

Mostly the area i’d like to see helped is the gem exchange rate, but hey, since i give away gold to people on our server, it’s nice to offer a big pot for 50 bucks.

The gem exchange rate is 100% player driven.

the gem exchange for me, is an indication of people spending gold to get gems, that is all it is.

A main issue really seems to be the difference between an “average” player and someone who plays the game quite a bit more – and the fact that it seems that a number of those players who play more think they are the “average” when they aren’t.

I’ve played since launch, with about 840 hours played (an average of almost exactly 1 hour per day since launch). I play PVE for enjoyment, not to farm mindlessly like a drone, or run around in zerg trains which seems so incredibly boring to me. The most gold I’ve accumulated at any time has been around 150. My wife plays casually the same and she’s only ever hit around 120 gold. We are just average, casual players, playing to enjoy the game. Not pouring hours into farming like it’s a job.

I’ve never had a drop worth anything more than around 4 gold.

I think there are far far more players in the same category as I am than there are in the “I easily make 400 gold per month” category.

In GW1 I played the same way, yet my bank was maxed at the 1 mill (prior to be hacked, yay) and I had any fancy gear I felt like getting 9I didn’t have stacks of ectos, but I had more than enough coin for all I wanted). I could go and do fun dungeons with guildies and friends, still “casual” and actually get good drops from foes/chests. It’s quite different in GW2, playing at my casual pace I feel I will probably never be able to get any of the cooler high end skins, unless i become a farm/zerg drone, which I won’t do. It changes a “goal” to a “wish” for typical players. I can’t play casually and have the “goal” of the fancy ascended gear, it’s only a “wish” now.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sariel V.7024:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I disagree that ascended should be a luxury item. I do not agree that best in slot gear is a “luxury.” Of course, I come from playing GW1 where stats weren’t a luxury thing. Cosmetics where.

Tell that to someone trying to buy a req9 max damage inscribable Death Magic Bone Dragon Staff.

See there, it’s the skin that’s the luxury there. Because you could easily get The exact same weapon sans the skin a dime a dozen. An inscribable max dmg staff req 9 death was super easy to get. Think there were a few collectors in NIghtfall that offered them I believe, and I think you might have been ale to craft them from one or two of the npcs. Of course, there were also lots of collectors that offered non-inscribable ones, so you could typically find one with the insric you wanted if you looking.

My point kinda gets lost in what I now see as its complete irrelevancy…. so, umm.. carry on?

Thaddeus.4891:

Never had to do dungeon to craft my acended armor or weapons. It just take time because of time gated recipe.

How did you max your crafting then? I saw a screenshot from back in the day and saw that T6 materials were going for coppers. These days they go for tens of silvers. There’s no way to get all those mats without farming dungeons. I have 4 level 80 characters and the only crafts that I’ve been able to max are cooking and jewelcrafting. All my other crafts are all stalled somewhere in the mid 400s. Every once in a while I’m able to save up the 30 or so gold that it costs to push a craft into the range where I can start making elonian leather and the like. Even so, that starts giving improvements somewhere in the 470s, and then you’re back to saving money for T6 mats. 15 minutes of dungeoneering is a guaranteed gold plus whatever loot you pick up. That’s the quickest and surest way to level crafting.

velmeister.4187:

If one thinks “it’s mindless farming” to obtain something of high value in a game, that high value item is not really worth it for that person.

If one thinks “I want a Bitfrost” and makes it a goal, time spent for acquiring funds for Bitfrost will not be “mindless farming” to that person.

No one is wrong. It’s really all about breakpoints.

A person may be willing to pay 700g for a precursor while another will be fine if mystic forge rolled a precursor within 50 tries. First person will probably get frustrated to find that precursor that is needed is selling for 1400g while the other person will cry foul if mystic forge did not spit out the precursor in 100 tries.

Game companies manipulate these breakpoints to create hooks in the game that keep people logging on when intrinsic OCD takes over (for lack of better words), desire to complete or to achieve.

For a game like GW2, 2+ years old, there gotta be multiple ways to attain any particular thing. Grinding Gold and measuring success by converting gold earned/hour is not exactly my cup of tea.

I’d like to see there is a definitive method by which one can obtain precursors to legendaries other than roll of dice, TP manipulation, or gold farming. I do not believe you can call your game innovative if it relies on the same principle of gold/hr to design and deliver desirable content.

Ironically, you start off your point with the worth of content being subjective to the player, then end with it being exclusively to your definition.

John Smith.4610:

Remember that changes in the overall supply of currency doesn’t mean inflation.

Here’s a snippet from an awesome game economist team:
“Changes in the money supply dwarf the changes to prices. While the money supply grew more than thirteenfold, the CPI fell by almost a quarter. It‘s clear that these series aren‘t strongly correlated. The existence of money alone doesn‘t contribute much to inflation. Money that isn‘t being spent won‘t affect prices. This brings us to the concept of the velocity of money, i.e. frequency with which a given quantity of money changes hands in transactions. It can be stated as the total value of all transactions in a period, divided by the money supply. In our case, we shall be using monthly measurements, i.e. market transactions per month divided the average money supply that month. Only transactions on the general market are included.”

edit: In case it’s not clear, this is not from me or speaking of our game.

I guess I should have added “circulation” to my post…

You are right the thousands of gold sitting on inactive accounts are not going to influence anything unless players come back and it is spent.

What game is this team from in this quote is? If I may ask?

And does Anet keep internal metrics on currency inflation?

Sariel V.7024:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sariel V.7024:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I disagree that ascended should be a luxury item. I do not agree that best in slot gear is a “luxury.” Of course, I come from playing GW1 where stats weren’t a luxury thing. Cosmetics where.

Tell that to someone trying to buy a req9 max damage inscribable Death Magic Bone Dragon Staff.

See there, it’s the skin that’s the luxury there. Because you could easily get The exact same weapon sans the skin a dime a dozen. An inscribable max dmg staff req 9 death was super easy to get. Think there were a few collectors in NIghtfall that offered them I believe, and I think you might have been ale to craft them from one or two of the npcs. Of course, there were also lots of collectors that offered non-inscribable ones, so you could typically find one with the insric you wanted if you looking.

My point kinda gets lost in what I now see as its complete irrelevancy…. so, umm.. carry on?

Don’t feel bad about it. There were a LOT of players on the old BLTP forums who didn’t understand the concept of “vanity” items or “luxury” items having a higher demand with generally a lower supply, which caused prices to be higher for those items even though you could attain the same stats elsewhere.

Mireles Lore.5942:

What game is this team from in this quote is? If I may ask?
?

Fairly certain it will be EVE. Not that I understand anything from the quote mind you…all a bit over my head!!

Ayrilana.1396:

Price level increase of general goods not for specific goods such as precursors. You do not measure inflation on luxury items.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation

No. Try using something other than Wikipedia as a source for information on the inner workings of inflation, because Wikipedia gets too much kitten wrong.

Inflation as a principle is not caused by monetary growth, the sideline campers who say that money growth -> inflation are wrong. Inflation happens first, and money growth accompanies it because agents in the economy need more money to carry out transactions.

That means, then, that inflation has different causes if money growth is not the cause of inflation. Which includes:

Market Power
Demand Pull
Asset Market Boom
Supply Shock

That means inflation occurs on a very real scale for everything. By causing inflation in one market (say, precursors), you lower the spending power in other markets (say, minipets) because more assets are being moved into a different market sector as a result of inflation. Your currency is buying less of a percentage of goods. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, it’s how markets work. This is, however, 100% true inflation and saying it isn’t is negligible to the reality of economics. Luxury items or not, you’re dealing with inflation. Deal with it.

I sincerely advise you to read Theories of Inflation by Frisch or read any of John T. Harvey’s articles about inflation on Forbes to have a better idea of how inflation works outside of what jargon Wikipedia claims to be valid.

pdavis.8031:

If inflation were taking place on the level that people are claiming it to be. You would see the same increase of prices over all the items, and not just a select few. Elder wood logs also would have gone up considerably, but I think they actually dropped some.

No. See above.

Cuddy.6247:

Ayrilana.1396:

Price level increase of general goods not for specific goods such as precursors. You do not measure inflation on luxury items.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation

No. Try using something other than Wikipedia as a source for information on the inner workings of inflation, because Wikipedia gets too much kitten wrong.

Inflation as a principle is not caused by monetary growth, the sideline campers who say that money growth -> inflation are wrong. Inflation happens first, and money growth accompanies it because agents in the economy need more money to carry out transactions.

That means, then, that inflation has different causes if money growth is not the cause of inflation. Which includes:

Market Power
Demand Pull
Asset Market Boom
Supply Shock

That means inflation occurs on a very real scale for everything. By causing inflation in one market (say, precursors), you lower the spending power in other markets (say, minipets) because more assets are being moved into a different market sector as a result of inflation. Your currency is buying less of a percentage of goods. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, it’s how markets work. This is, however, 100% true inflation and saying it isn’t is negligible to the reality of economics. Luxury items or not, you’re dealing with inflation. Deal with it.

I sincerely advise you to read Theories of Inflation by Frisch or read any of John T. Harvey’s articles about inflation on Forbes to have a better idea of how inflation works outside of what jargon Wikipedia claims to be valid.

pdavis.8031:

If inflation were taking place on the level that people are claiming it to be. You would see the same increase of prices over all the items, and not just a select few. Elder wood logs also would have gone up considerably, but I think they actually dropped some.

No. See above.

Perhaps you should re-read the posts including mine. Inflation was being improperly used as they were using it specifically for precursors. You cannot do that despite what you’re suggesting.

pdavis.8031:

If inflation were taking place on the level that people are claiming it to be. You would see the same increase of prices over all the items, and not just a select few. Elder wood logs also would have gone up considerably, but I think they actually dropped some.

Gem prices have steadily increased since I started playing. The cost of most mats keeps rising as well. The reason elder wood log prices are so low is the sheer number of foxfire clusters required to make the vine back piece. Since most of the saplings that the clusters come from also give elder wood, the market is now flooded. At that point it doesn’t matter whether or not players can afford to buy your logs; if there are more logs then there are buyers, the cost is going to go down. It’s simple supply and demand. A price drop for a single item is not proof that inflation is non-existent.

Gotta love all the numbers and claims flying around without showing any proof or citing any source.

To the OP, send me all your gold if you’re done with the game kthxbye.

Ayrilana.1396:

Cuddy.6247:

Ayrilana.1396:

Price level increase of general goods not for specific goods such as precursors. You do not measure inflation on luxury items.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation

No. Try using something other than Wikipedia as a source for information on the inner workings of inflation, because Wikipedia gets too much kitten wrong.

Inflation as a principle is not caused by monetary growth, the sideline campers who say that money growth -> inflation are wrong. Inflation happens first, and money growth accompanies it because agents in the economy need more money to carry out transactions.

That means, then, that inflation has different causes if money growth is not the cause of inflation. Which includes:

Market Power
Demand Pull
Asset Market Boom
Supply Shock

That means inflation occurs on a very real scale for everything. By causing inflation in one market (say, precursors), you lower the spending power in other markets (say, minipets) because more assets are being moved into a different market sector as a result of inflation. Your currency is buying less of a percentage of goods. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, it’s how markets work. This is, however, 100% true inflation and saying it isn’t is negligible to the reality of economics. Luxury items or not, you’re dealing with inflation. Deal with it.

I sincerely advise you to read Theories of Inflation by Frisch or read any of John T. Harvey’s articles about inflation on Forbes to have a better idea of how inflation works outside of what jargon Wikipedia claims to be valid.

pdavis.8031:

If inflation were taking place on the level that people are claiming it to be. You would see the same increase of prices over all the items, and not just a select few. Elder wood logs also would have gone up considerably, but I think they actually dropped some.

No. See above.

Perhaps you should re-read the posts including mine. Inflation was being improperly used as they were using it specifically for precursors. You cannot do that despite what you’re suggesting.

You sure as kitten can use it to describe precursors, because inflation lowers the spending power in any market sector through cost increases by various means. No economist in their right mind would say that inflation isn’t occurring just because one particular market is booming and the rest have remained stable.

Take, for consideration, a real time example of a housing boom where lumber markets were sought after. Contractors would bid the prices up to secure the materials they need. These prices then ripple through the economy, firms and consumers need more to pay the contractors who are bidding more to secure their products, tying up more of their assets.

The same can be said for the in-game economy. Buy orders bid higher to secure the things they need, tying up their income – causing inflation for the firms and consumers (the people who visit the TP to buy and go), and causing their assets to not go as far as they did before – which that a consumer replies by going with the money growth or reevaluating their individual purchasing patterns.

Just because some consumers have given up and let the wedge be driven between them and the CPI doesn’t mean inflation hasn’t happened, it just means people accept that it’s just a game and precursors (or any other luxury item) aren’t worth the effort to buy anymore. They are far from exempt from inflation, because inflation does not have a causal relationship with money growth and never will.

This is, most definitely, inflation. If you really are so inept that you think you can argue against inflation on the sole basis of “luxury item” then you do not understand a kittening thing about inflation or the causes of it.

Astralporing.1957:

jweez.7214:

Ascended items were never ment for the average player.

Yes. This is a problem.

I don’t understand why … the average player does not benefit from 1-2% increase in stats Ascended armor gives you.

Bernie.8674:

pdavis.8031:

If inflation were taking place on the level that people are claiming it to be. You would see the same increase of prices over all the items, and not just a select few. Elder wood logs also would have gone up considerably, but I think they actually dropped some.

Gem prices have steadily increased since I started playing. The cost of most mats keeps rising as well. The reason elder wood log prices are so low is the sheer number of foxfire clusters required to make the vine back piece. Since most of the saplings that the clusters come from also give elder wood, the market is now flooded. At that point it doesn’t matter whether or not players can afford to buy your logs; if there are more logs then there are buyers, the cost is going to go down. It’s simple supply and demand. A price drop for a single item is not proof that inflation is non-existent.

The supply and demand portion was the point I was trying to make. Also gem prices have been stated by John Smith to not be any measure of inflation at all. Once again, for those who don’t understand, there is a pool of gems. Everytime you use gold to buy gems you remove gems from that pool, which in turn increases the price of the gems. Everytime you convert gems to gold, you increase the pool, which lowers the price. The ONLY reason gold to gem prices are rising is more people are buying gems with gold than buying gold with gems. It’s not inflation. It’s more supply and demand.

However, the cost of gems for cash has remained consistant since launch. $1.25 USD for 100 gems. But according to some, should also change with prices and inflation. Yet it hasn’t.

Cuddy.6247:

Inflation as a principle is not caused by monetary growth, the sideline campers who say that money growth -> inflation are wrong. Inflation happens first, and money growth accompanies it because agents in the economy need more money to carry out transactions.

I promise you if anet dropped 10,000 gold on every player in the game, inflation would happen. The price of everything that is not over saturated in supply and have bottomed out in price would skyrocket in price from people buying everything they want.

The agents of the economy don’t “need” more money for it to become inflated because the economy and demand is not based on just needs but also wants. If excessive growth exists and it is in people hands that would spend it. Inflation will happen.

All that I am seeing is you regurgitating/plagiarizing that article. Prices of all precursors could go to 5000 gold and you would not see a massive increase in prices everywhere else.

Bernie.8674:

A price drop for a single item is not proof that inflation is non-existent.

A true statement, but you’re on the verge of asking him to prove a negative.

“Prove that there is no inflation!”

From a logical standpoint, the burden of proof is on the person making the claim. If you think there is inflation, you’d need to demonstrate it.

On topic, do you suppose that the gold an experienced dungeon runner in an organized group can earn in 3 hours has more buying power than it did 6 months ago, or less buying power than it did 6 months ago? Speaking from experience, I can make 40-50g in 3 hours of dungeons and I assure you that compared to 6 months ago my general buying power is more or less the same, if not higher now. To me, that is a pretty sure sign we aren’t experiencing an unhealthy amount of inflation.

Fact is, if we were experiencing radical inflation, activities that give fixed gold rewards like dungeons would be abandoned as activities that rewarded you with materials like Silverwastes would dominate. As it stands the two activities tend to, over the long run on an hourly basis reward the player with roughly equal rewards per hour. this is a sign that inflation is relatively stable.

hybrid.5027:

Bernie.8674:

A price drop for a single item is not proof that inflation is non-existent.

A true statement, but you’re on the verge of asking him to prove a negative.

I wasn’t asking anyone to prove anything. I was responding to this:

If inflation were taking place on the level that people are claiming it to be. You would see the same increase of prices over all the items, and not just a select few. Elder wood logs also would have gone up considerably, but I think they actually dropped some.

Are we to seriously believe that the “economy” in this game is driven solely by supply-and-demand? I honestly believe that many, if not most, high end items are artificially inflated. For instance, why CAN’T I sell an item for less than some specific minimum price? In a truly market driven economy I should be able to sell a good at any price I see fit.

Question: has anyone tried to sell a legendary in the TP? What’s the minimum you can sell at?

For funsies, I put in a custom-price of 1g for The Bifrost. It allowed me to put it, will it allow someone to sell at that price?

misterman.1530:

Are we to seriously believe that the “economy” in this game is driven solely by supply-and-demand? I honestly believe that many, if not most, high end items are artificially inflated. For instance, why CAN’T I sell an item for less than some specific minimum price? In a truly market driven economy I should be able to sell a good at any price I see fit.

Question: has anyone tried to sell a legendary in the TP? What’s the minimum you can sell at?

For funsies, I put in a custom-price of 1g for The Bifrost. It allowed me to put it, will it allow someone to sell at that price?

The minimum is dependent on what the in-game vendors pay. The game protects new players from unscrupulous veterans, so it sets the minimum at the vendor prices + the %TP mark up so that players will always make as much from the TP as they would have from the vendor.

misterman.1530:

Are we to seriously believe that the “economy” in this game is driven solely by supply-and-demand? I honestly believe that many, if not most, high end items are artificially inflated. For instance, why CAN’T I sell an item for less than some specific minimum price? In a truly market driven economy I should be able to sell a good at any price I see fit.

Question: has anyone tried to sell a legendary in the TP? What’s the minimum you can sell at?

For funsies, I put in a custom-price of 1g for The Bifrost. It allowed me to put it, will it allow someone to sell at that price?

The minimum price is the vendor price plus TP fees. What the problem?

Mireles Lore.5942:

Cuddy.6247:

Inflation as a principle is not caused by monetary growth, the sideline campers who say that money growth -> inflation are wrong. Inflation happens first, and money growth accompanies it because agents in the economy need more money to carry out transactions.

I promise you if anet dropped 10,000 gold on every player in the game, inflation would happen. The price of everything that is not over saturated in supply and have bottomed out in price would skyrocket in price from people buying everything they want.

The agents of the economy don’t “need” more money for it to become inflated because the economy and demand is not based on just needs but also wants. If excessive growth exists and it is in people hands that would spend it. Inflation will happen.

What you’re describing is an Asset Market Boom which I already said was a cause of inflation. When a market boom happens, equity rises, followed later by assets. Neither of these are independently causes of inflation because inflation at its core means that your currency buys less of a percentage. It’s only afterward when equity has been redistributed and assets have risen in price that you have inflation. The European Central Bank did a very informative paper about market booms and their effects on markets.

Inflation does not, and never will, be adherent to a strict policy of just rising prices for commodities. When inflation occurs, one of two things will happen:

1. Consumers will meet monetary growth.
2. Consumers will reevaluate their buying patterns.

The second is more common for MMO economies, because it’s just a video game and wanting a luxury item doesn’t mean you’re going to work for it.

Ayrilana.1396:

All that I am seeing is you regurgitating/plagiarizing that article. Prices of all precursors could go to 5000 gold and you would not see a massive increase in prices everywhere else.

Mad cuz bad. Just because you’re ignorant and fail to understand inflation doesn’t mean the rest of the educated world does.

And no one here ever said you have to see all prices raise with inflation. That’s not how inflation works. Inflation just means that your currency buys less of a percentage. That’s a critical definition, because monetary growth will accompany inflation or buying patterns will be redefined.

In a video game, you see buying patterns redefined quite often because the sectors that see inflation, really see inflation. That means you have a larger redistribution from the inflated market sectors to the stable market sectors. Consumers aren’t willing to catch up with the market on it, which means it will continue to climb higher until it eventually crashes. Stock Market of 90s, anyone?