Mesmer PvE Guide
The Leveling & Open World Compendium
The Leveling & Open World Compendium
(edited by Kaiyanwan.8521)
Is it Fun? How ArenaNet Measures Success
If GW2 launched with instanced raids and full gear treadmill they wouldnt talk 5 years of not having it.
Fact is that that it didnt AND game became fastest selling MMO of all times based on something they turned their backs on 2 months after launch, probably chasing extra profit. Not the first or last company that did that, but most of those who did it ended with short end of the stick.
We don’t have instanced raids now, nor from the sounds of the dev’s comments, will we. They’ve stated that they want to do ‘raid like’ content, but they’ve also stated that it would not the traditional style. Most likely, Tequatl is their raid like content. (I didn’t think so at first, but it sort of fits the bill) Which is fine. They’ve always said, from the beginning, that they wanted to do large scale content to bring the players together together. To be able to play with others, without necessarily having to party up. DE’s were the start of this, they’ve gradually started making strides in furthering that general idea, while still preserving some “small group” content that does require a party (like dungeons). Is it perfect? Oh hell no, but nothing is in the first few tries. They have a lot of work left to do.
Yes, GW2 was the fastest selling MMO. However, what good is the fastest seller if it does not retain its players? How many threads have there been since…hell, November, shouting for more content? More grind? More gear? More, more, more, more! About how the game is dying? A heck of a lot. People were calling for an expansion in January because they spent 8+ hours a day playing and couldn’t figure out how to entertain themselves anymore. Anet had to do something. Living Story, one of their original ideals (living world) wasn’t ready, wasn’t up to snuff. They were having loot issues, they had so much they needed to fix still, etc etc. Knee jerk reactions are not something new for Anet, we saw it all the time in GW1. They simply gave the players what they were hollering for. Not their best moment, but not their worst either.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
People just have a way too ridged view of how things have to be done.
Example The great all mighty grind argument.
People that complain about grind seem to have the idea that the only way not to have grind in a game is to set really low requirements for stuff. Thats not the only way! Take ascended trinkets, all it takes is 20 laurels to get that so at most that’s 20 dailies though it can be as low as 15. Going with the maximum you gain 20 dailies by playing anything you enjoy playing for 20 days. There is no grind in having you play what you choose to play. But no people’s view here is way too rigid. If I need to 20 laurels The first thing I must do when I log in is threat the daily like a check list and get it over with before I go play what I love which Ironically will probably finish most of those requirements a few more times again. Then they turn to arenanet and accuse them of lying, that they promised no grind but look I have to grind dailies everyday based on a manifesto which in turn is just a stated intention for a game direction.
No grind doesnt mean everything is going to be ultra cheap.. grind means you dont have to repeat mindless tasks over and over again. They implemented that idea using time gating with the daily system. Just go play whatever you choose for 15 days and boom here BiS gear for 0 effort. Thats a completely valid way to eliminate grind. But if you just cant get past the normal way of doing this which is farm for rewards by repeating content which in most MMOs when it comes to BiS it would be repeating raids / dungeons over and over again the grind issue isnt being created by the game, its being created by yourself who refuse to do things any different to how they were done in the past.
Part of that manifesto you people like to quote so much is “We do not want to build the same MMO everyone else is building” Some things here are different, the way you acquire gear and how important that gear is part of it. Nearly everything in game can be had playing whatever you like playing. Very few other MMOs if any do that.
Unlike past designs in Gw2 you get the reward for playing the game you dont play the game to get the reward its a simple as that but you have to be willing to see it and act accordingly.
I like to do DE? play 20 days of them and I can get an ascended trinket.
I like to sPvP, same thing
I like to do dungeons? like wise
but if you threat it like a check list you just kill you own fun.. Ohh man I have to go kill 50 critters, 13 different types of mobs, 5 veterans and a champion gees What A grind… But then again if I love doing dungeons would I get that anyway?
If I like to play in the open world, won’t I do that anyway? Why would you consider it a grind if its what you’re going to do anyway?
“If we chose fun as our main metric for tracking success, can we flip the core paradigm and make design decisions based on what we’d like to play as game players? Can we focus our time on making meaningful and impactful content, rather than filler content meant to draw out the experience? Can we make something so much fun you might want to play it multiple times because it’s fun, rather than making you do it because the game says you have to? It’s how we played games while growing up. I can’t tell you how many times I played Quest for Glory; the game didn’t give me 25 daily quests I needed to log in and do—I played it multiple times because it was fun!”
notice how many times “can we” is mentioned?
they tried?
the problem is the players, not the developers.
the players left the game because there was not enough grind.
the players felt boring because there was not enough grind.etc.
i do enjoy the mini games though.
Well, some players. I know I was happier with the game before.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
I’m going to download guild wars 1 again and next to it I’m going to download Forge for some nice REAL PvP, without the imbalance of ascended gear.
Good luck to all of the people here that have a mind! Goodbye to all the farmers/zergers/grinders/fanboys. Bye Grind Wars 2
Well, some players. I know I was happier with the game before.
Correction: the large majority of players.
If you were here back then you’d know 90% of this forum was asking for treadmills and whatnot.
Temporary content on the other hand is totally Anet’s fault, nobody asked for that.
I laughed when I read the OP’s post and the article. As I read it I thought “they’re saying they don’t want to be exactly what they became”.
I love this game. Don’t get me wrong. But they did do opposite of what they seemed to intend. I just play what I like and leave the rest. I don’t have time to do it all because I’m a casual player. That’s ok! I know it will take me longer to get the legendary, or achievement points or whatever. But this is my only entertainment, so if I’m not having fun I will drop it.
Isle of Janthir – Knights of the Rose (KoR)
People just have a way too ridged view of how things have to be done.
Take ascended trinkets, all it takes is 20 laurels to get that so at most that’s 20 dailies though it can be as low as 15.
I like to do DE? play 20 days of them and I can get an ascended trinket.
I like to sPvP, same thing
I like to do dungeons? like wise
Laurel prices for trinkets are 30, 35 and 40+50 ectos — not 20. If you’re including monthlies or badges, say so — and include those requirements in your calculation — not this disingenuous “20” crap.
Yes, most business decisions are about money
-snip-
There is some fracturing, but you can still find people to do stuff with. You’re not ‘always alone.’
My guess is they might buff DE rewards (though I doubt it). I don’t think they will ever make fighting open world mobs other than champions rewarding. I expect them to go right on with making the most rewarding content be either the champion zerg or the zerg of the update, but I guess we’ll see.
Yes, most business decisions are about money
-snip-
There is some fracturing, but you can still find people to do stuff with. You’re not ‘always alone.’
My guess is they might buff DE rewards (though I doubt it). I don’t think they will ever make fighting open world mobs other than champions rewarding. I expect them to go right on with making the most rewarding content be either the champion zerg or the zerg of the update, but I guess we’ll see.
Yeah, all we can do is wait and see. For the most part I’m fine with current DE rewards, but in order for others to do them, yes they’ll have to make the rewards much better. Otherwise, you are very correct, it’s going to remain champ zerg and update zerg. Which while fun for a little while, gets boring quickly. I’ll keep my fingers crossed. All I can really do.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
People just have a way too ridged view of how things have to be done.
Take ascended trinkets, all it takes is 20 laurels to get that so at most that’s 20 dailies though it can be as low as 15.
I like to do DE? play 20 days of them and I can get an ascended trinket.
I like to sPvP, same thing
I like to do dungeons? like wise
So in summary, your suggestion is to farm the existing content.
I already figured that out, but thanks anyway.
Well, some players. I know I was happier with the game before.
Correction: the large majority of players.
If you were here back then you’d know 90% of this forum was asking for treadmills and whatnot.
No.
I’ve been here from the beginning. There were some threads complaining about “no endgame” from the content locusts. It wasn’t nearly as huge as you’re making out. And only a fraction of those were specifically asking for new tiers of loot. Most of them were just asking for something new to do.
Crazy how people expressing dislike of ascended weapons and armor are a vocal minority, because people who enjoy the game play it instead of posting on forums, but forum complaints about the need for new gear levels to chase somehow represented a vast portion of the players.
I’ve been here from the beginning. There were some threads complaining about “no endgame” from the content locusts. It wasn’t nearly as huge as you’re making out. And only a fraction of those were specifically asking for new tiers of loot. Most of them were just asking for something new to do.
I’ve been around since early beta, and I vouch for that.
People really were asking for more things. GW2’s endgame is still abysmal compared to many other MMOs, and being locked down to Orr and Frostgorge was particularly insulting after promises of dynamic level scaling.
More stuff, not more tiny sections of the world to grind in. More cosmetic loot, not a gear treadmill.
Well, some players. I know I was happier with the game before.
Correction: the large majority of players.
If you were here back then you’d know 90% of this forum was asking for treadmills and whatnot.
No.
I’ve been here from the beginning. There were some threads complaining about “no endgame” from the content locusts. It wasn’t nearly as huge as you’re making out. And only a fraction of those were specifically asking for new tiers of loot. Most of them were just asking for something new to do.
Crazy how people expressing dislike of ascended weapons and armor are a vocal minority, because people who enjoy the game play it instead of posting on forums, but forum complaints about the need for new gear levels to chase somehow represented a vast portion of the players.
This is true. People were asking for new gear styles, not what Ascended brought along with it, i.e., cosmetics.
And they were also asking for more endgame which wasn’t Malchor’s, Orr, or Frostgorge. Truth be told, GW2 has almost no endgame. Players wanted something to do that didn’t involve only doing dailies and dungeons or WvW after 80.
Instead we got what we have now, and it’s pretty kittenty.
Edit: Draco pretty much beat me to it.
“Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.”
– Euripides
– Euripides
No.
I’ve been here from the beginning. There were some threads complaining about “no endgame” from the content locusts. It wasn’t nearly as huge as you’re making out. And only a fraction of those were specifically asking for new tiers of loot. Most of them were just asking for something new to do.
Crazy how people expressing dislike of ascended weapons and armor are a vocal minority, because people who enjoy the game play it instead of posting on forums, but forum complaints about the need for new gear levels to chase somehow represented a vast portion of the players.
Well said, I agree about what was happening on the forums at the time, they only really blew up in Nov and then with the intro of asc weapons.
Plus I’d argue that the content locusts are getting that new content now through the fortnightly updates so why continue with the introduction of asc weapons and armor which is clearly going to annoy a lot of players especially the way they did it.
The game may have begun shedding players again but thats certainly not reflected in the PR. There’s a disconnect there.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
and this just shows us that Anet doesn’t have a clue what’s happening with their own game.
#ELEtism
When I read the following statement from the game’s lead designer,
“The answer can be found in the mechanics and choices made in subscription-based MMOs, which keep customers actively playing by chasing something in the game through processes that take as long as possible. In other words, designers of traditional MMOs create content systems that take more time to keep people playing longer. If this is your business motivation and model so you keep getting paid, it makes sense and is an incredibly smart thing to do, and you need to support it.
When your game systems are designed to achieve the prime motivation of a subscription-based MMO, you run the risk of sacrificing quality to get as much content in as possible to fill that time. You get leveling systems that take insane amounts of grind to gain a level, loot drop systems that require doing a dungeon with a tiny chance the item you want can drop at the end, raid systems that need huge numbers of people online simultaneously to organize and play, thousands of wash/repeat item-collection or kill-mob quests or dailies with flavor text support, the best stat gear requiring crazy amounts of time to earn, etc.
But what if your business model isn’t based on a subscription? What if your content-design motivations aren’t driven by the need to create mechanics that keep people playing as long as possible? When looking at content design for Guild Wars 2, we’ve tried to ask the question: What if the development of the game was based on…wait for it…fun?"
I thought, “now there’s an MMO I can get behind. The developers want to make a game that’s fun, not one that concerns itself with stringing players along with things like gear-treadmills or time-gated rewards.” A year latter, now that I’ve seen what the Living Story is all about, I’ve had a change of heart. The Living Story is essentially doing exactly what subscription-based MMOs do…keeping players logging often for the sake of “chasing something in the game”.
The Living Story introduces temporarily-available content. Tied to this content is temporarily-available in-game rewards and – not coincidentally – temporarily-available items in the cash shop. The developers are resorting to the exact kinds of tactics they intended to avoid…“wash/repeat item-collection or kill-mob quests or dailies with flavor text support, the best stat gear requiring crazy amounts of time to earn.” Between the Living Story and the time-gating of things like ascended weapons, we’re pretty much exactly where we would have been with a subscription fee.
The article goes on to say,
~
Funny really. If there is an MMO out there making content just to keep people playing and buying it’s GW2.
Also this. “loot drop systems that require doing a dungeon with a tiny chance the item you want can drop at the end, raid systems that need huge numbers of people online simultaneously to organize and play” THAT IS FUN! It’s exactly one of those things I miss in GW2. You know what is not fun.. Doing a dungeon over and over again to get money (or other currency) so you can then buy that item.. thats boring.
Buying that rare mini from the trading-post or gem-shop is boring, getting as a rare drop is FUN.
My complains about GW2 and Anet’s focus on the gem-store is that it takes away the fun out of the game and then it is really funny… or sad to read this.
And raids is also something a lot of people ask for but so far Anet refuses to put it in.. If you read this the reason might be because Anet think it is not fun.. that of course explains why people ask for it. Really.. This person has no idea what is fun.. I do agree that grindy quest are not fun.. good quest however are.. and grindy hearts or grindy events are also not fun just like grindy quest.
So the thinks that he says are not fun but really are fun are not in this game and the thinks he says are not fun and are indeed nut fun are very much in this game.
I love the interaction with the guild and doing stuff with them (but we do miss thinks to do.. you know like those raids that apparently are not fun).
It the amazing guild that keeps me in GW2, it’s not GW2 itself sadly.
(edited by Devata.6589)
Anet are fools for turning GW2 into a traditional MMO. It just means that when the next newer, and thus inevitably shinier, MMO comes out, people will leave in droves because there’d be nothing unique about GW2.
Anet are fools for turning GW2 into a traditional MMO. It just means that when the next newer, and thus inevitably shinier, MMO comes out, people will leave in droves because there’d be nothing unique about GW2.
sad part is there already a number of players eyeing several MMO releases this year. Myself I got my eyes on Wildstar.
#ELEtism
I went back to make sure, just in case I had some sort of bias that was coloring my memory. I got bored and stopped about 40 pages of forum posts from launch, but it was kinda cool to see people rallying to defend the game’s lack of endgame gear grind from the posters who were asking for it.
At least through those 40 pages, there wasn’t anything like a hue and cry for a new loot level. You’ll find threads sprinkled throughout a great number of other topics like requests for guild/player housing, more difficult content, new cosmetics, and many other things. Most of the threads asking for traditional MMORPG endgame didn’t get past a few dozen posts. None, that I found, past fifty.
Nowhere near the forum presence I’m seeing displeased with how ascended weapons and (likely) armor have been implemented.
The first 40 pages only got me to September 20, so it’s possible there was significant uptick in “we need moar lootz!” after that. I’ll have to go back and do some more looking when I get the urge.
I think what we need to consider here is that ‘fun’ is subjective. If you watch the Twitch streams, the developers do very much seem to enjoy their game. They are having fun with what they’ve made. They are happy with it, and this is probably somewhat how they gauge what is fun and what is not. Which is fine.
That said, what is fun for one, is not necessarily fun for someone else. Which from the hollering on the forums, is very very obvious. So while they are potentially creating a ‘fun game’ to them, it doesn’t suit some of your tastes, so you take what they said and throw it back them claiming they are lying.
I don’t feel they were (or are) lying. I think it’s a matter of perspective.
True, fun is subjective and like I said in my previous comment. I can’t understand why he says doing a dungeon for a rare drop is not fun. But doing it for currency to buy something apparently is fun according to them? As thats how it is now. I see that the other way around.
However he also literally gives examples of what he sees as not fun and those thinks are literally now in this game, a lot. So it’s not just a matter of perspective because of the subjective nature of fun.
“raid systems that need huge numbers of people online simultaneously to organize and play”
Good that they don’t start with something like that now.
Oh .. wait ..
A really good organized raid can be fun and is something I would love to do with the guild. A not organized zerg of players like with the Tequatl is not so much fun.
I think ANet have a very skewed view of fun since they dropped GW1.
Mindless grinding for example does not = fun.
I think Guild Wars 1 players have a very skewed view of fun. See how that works? What a silly comment.
Fun is subjective. I can almost guarantee the stuff that I found fun in Guild Wars 1 you didn’t and vice versa. You don’t get to have a monopoly definition on what fun is.
Colin did define things as not fun in that article. And many of those things are now literally in the game.
It was a general ‘we.’ A lot of people on these forums did cry for those things, though not necessarily you or me . I wish the stupid search function worked. There have been numerous threads about gear progression (“Gear grind or people leave” is one I commented on a long while back. There have been plenty more), about raiding (Was just one asking if Tequatl was anets answer to raid like content in the LS forums), etc. (Starting to think I’m on here too much… but darn it, work is boring when you’re waiting for code to compile!)
I don’t know how much was asked for in game. I mean I saw requests for some of it, which started some heated debates in LA, but it wasn’t as ‘loud’ as on here.
Yes, the forum is a vocal minority, but we don’t know where else they are taking feedback from. Only they have the actual numbers and metrics.
My theory now is also that we next get instanced raiding because so much people now asked for it because of Tequatl, even since before very much people were strictly against that. But now ANet could say : hey .. you asked for that.
People where against it? I have seen people asking for it even before beta when Anet announced that they only worked with dungeons for 5 people. We can only hope to finally get some good raid stuff.
It was a general ‘we.’ A lot of people on these forums did cry for those things, though not necessarily you or me . I wish the stupid search function worked. There have been numerous threads about gear progression (“Gear grind or people leave” is one I commented on a long while back. There have been plenty more), about raiding (Was just one asking if Tequatl was anets answer to raid like content in the LS forums), etc. (Starting to think I’m on here too much… but darn it, work is boring when you’re waiting for code to compile!)
I don’t know how much was asked for in game. I mean I saw requests for some of it, which started some heated debates in LA, but it wasn’t as ‘loud’ as on here.
Yes, the forum is a vocal minority, but we don’t know where else they are taking feedback from. Only they have the actual numbers and metrics.
My theory now is also that we next get instanced raiding because so much people now asked for it because of Tequatl, even since before very much people were strictly against that. But now ANet could say : hey .. you asked for that.
People where against it? I have seen people asking for it even before beta when Anet announced that they only worked with dungeons for 5 people. We can only hope to finally get some good raid stuff.
Yes. Mostly from people who are stuck on WoW because it’s a game they’ll never get to play because it’s a P2P game. Or from those who were bads on the same game and always failed at raids.
I just threw WoW in there, there’s many other MMOs that have raids, but again, it’s the same thing. “GW2 is different.”
At this point in time, I fail to see what is so vastly different from those games and GW2 that people still say this.
“Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.”
– Euripides
– Euripides
My theory now is also that we next get instanced raiding because so much people now asked for it because of Tequatl, even since before very much people were strictly against that. But now ANet could say : hey .. you asked for that.
Well, Mike Z, Colin, and Chris W have said that the GW2 raiding would not be like traditional raiding. So Tequatl may have been anet’s answer to the raid request (no on has said definitively), which, for people requesting raiding, should still be very doable for them. They just get a couple of people with commander tags, and squad up to take him on.
We may get instanced raiding, they may give in to it if people holler loudly, but I don’t think so at this point. Colin has stated that they don’t want to do a whole lot of instanced content, because of how it divides the player base. (Thus why we’ve been told no HM for dungeons) Honestly, I like the Tequatl changes (mind you, I still aint beat him). I’m looking forward to them making such changes to all of the world bosses. But as for not wanted to do instancing… could always change. Just give me my heroes back, and I’ll be perfectly fine with it.
If they don’t want instances they should not have made every map an instance and if they don’t want to divide the playerbase they should have work with fractions and put WvW in the open world as part of that and no fractions don’t divide the player-base. Two people fighting each other are playing together.
They seem to get the whole instance part completely wrong. What should not be instanced is instanced and what should be instanced is open. A raid in an instance does not divide up the playerbase more then overflows do but it get people to really play together work on tactics. Something that does work way less with a open world boss. Well open map boss I should say as GW2 as not something as an open world.
At the moment, one of my biggest complaints with GW2 is rather odd, but: I think the combat system is too fast-paced. Often—and especially in groups—combat is not so much proactive as reactive self-preservation and button-mashing. Events with zergs are downright frenetic, like a rabbit on heroine. I don’t find that particularly fun.
The grind and gear treadmill I am disappointed about, but not surprised. The advertisements for GW2 always had a little bit of “too good to be true” flavor to them, so I tried to take everything that was said pre-release with a grain of salt. They also said that the effects dynamic events would be “permanent,” and that’s hardly the case.
#ELEtism
By Ogden’s hammer, what savings!
By Ogden’s hammer, what savings!
It was a general ‘we.’ A lot of people on these forums did cry for those things, though not necessarily you or me . I wish the stupid search function worked. There have been numerous threads about gear progression (“Gear grind or people leave” is one I commented on a long while back. There have been plenty more), about raiding (Was just one asking if Tequatl was anets answer to raid like content in the LS forums), etc. (Starting to think I’m on here too much… but darn it, work is boring when you’re waiting for code to compile!)
I don’t know how much was asked for in game. I mean I saw requests for some of it, which started some heated debates in LA, but it wasn’t as ‘loud’ as on here.
Yes, the forum is a vocal minority, but we don’t know where else they are taking feedback from. Only they have the actual numbers and metrics.
My theory now is also that we next get instanced raiding because so much people now asked for it because of Tequatl, even since before very much people were strictly against that. But now ANet could say : hey .. you asked for that.
People where against it? I have seen people asking for it even before beta when Anet announced that they only worked with dungeons for 5 people. We can only hope to finally get some good raid stuff.
Yes. Mostly from people who are stuck on WoW because it’s a game they’ll never get to play because it’s a P2P game. Or from those who were bads on the same game and always failed at raids.
I just threw WoW in there, there’s many other MMOs that have raids, but again, it’s the same thing. “GW2 is different.”
At this point in time, I fail to see what is so vastly different from those games and GW2 that people still say this.
I did play WoW and I did like it but I never did raids. Not because I was bad at them but because I mainly played solo.. meaning not in a big guild. Now in GW2 I am in a big guild and I would love to do something like a raid. Or (something that I did in WoW) attacking the main city of the other fraction. Thats not an option for now in WoW but yes raids would be fun.
Good tactics with people on teamspeak and all working together to a goal.. more then just brainless zerging or maybe indeed needing to use brains like on Tequatl but having 2 people on the turrets thats don’t know what they do and so having 100 people fail so they have to wait another hour for Tequatl to spawn.
BTW I don’t understand the hate towards WoW so much. They do a lot of thinks very good. That’s also why they are the most successful and known MMORPG out there. Trying to do everything different for the sake of doing it different is plain stupid imho.
Why I do not play it anymore.. well like you say P2P stops me from playing it. I don’t like that system.. then again I also don’t like the Cash-shop system GW2 is now going. I prefer paying for expansions. That might cost me exactly the same as P2P (as I would most likely buy collector edition and would most likely not pay P2P every month) but I don’t have a timer over my head. So I did not stop playing it because it was not fun. Now I must say many complains I hear now from old WoW players are people who did different content then I did. I loved crafting and searing for rare pets and mini’s and so on.
Also this. “loot drop systems that require doing a dungeon with a tiny chance the item you want can drop at the end, raid systems that need huge numbers of people online simultaneously to organize and play” THAT IS FUN! It’s exactly one of those things I miss in GW2. You know what is not fun.. Doing a dungeon over and over again to get money (or other currency) so you can then buy that item.. thats boring.
I definitely agree with this. This is exactly what drove me away from the Diablo franchise. Instead of getting that sense of accomplishment by finally getting what you needed to drop, or sense of fulfillment rather, you are forced to just grind gold as the best way to just go buy the item off the TP. In Diablo it’s the same nonsense, very rarely does anything drop even remotely close to being useful so you are funneled into just grinding to buy off the auction house, which is 0 fun. It just rubs you the wrong way when you feel like even if you dedicate your time and energy into going for something you just can’t get it without grinding.
As an example in wow I spent nearly 2 full years running Heroic Sethekk Halls for that kitten ravenlord mount. Off and on, but at least twice a week. And it was a tough road of bad RNG and whenever the mount did drop other people in the group would win the rolls but I finally ended up getting the mount and it was probably one of the best feelings I’ve had in any mmo, like finally I accomplished this task. If I had the option to buy it off the AH I probably would have, but there would be zero fulfillment in that.
(edited by dcypher.2590)
If fun is their metric they are missing the mark.
The comment I am hearing a lot in TS is that the game is not fun any more.
I just wonder when they are going to step back and reassess what is going on and what types of content would be more fun than whatbthey got now.
We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional
Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)
Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)
Also this. “loot drop systems that require doing a dungeon with a tiny chance the item you want can drop at the end, raid systems that need huge numbers of people online simultaneously to organize and play” THAT IS FUN! It’s exactly one of those things I miss in GW2. You know what is not fun.. Doing a dungeon over and over again to get money (or other currency) so you can then buy that item.. thats boring.
I definitely agree with this. This is exactly what drove me away from the Diablo franchise. Instead of getting that sense of accomplishment by finally getting what you needed to drop, or sense of fulfillment rather, you are forced to just grind gold as the best way to just go buy the item off the TP. In Diablo it’s the same nonsense, very rarely does anything drop even remotely close to being useful so you are funneled into just grinding to buy off the auction house, which is 0 fun. It just rubs you the wrong way when you feel like even if you dedicate your time and energy into going for something you just can’t get it without grinding.
As an example in wow I spent nearly 2 full years running Heroic Sethekk Halls for that kitten ravenlord mount. Off and on, but at least twice a week. And it was a tough road of bad RNG and whenever the mount did drop other people in the group would win the rolls but I finally ended up getting the mount and it was probably one of the best feelings I’ve had in any mmo, like finally I accomplished this task. If I had the option to buy it off the AH I probably would have, but there would be zero fulfillment in that.
Thats exactly the feeling I am talking about. The fact that you can tell (recall) that story basically says it all. It was an adventure. I have no story about the few mini’s that I did get in this game.. I would if I had gotten the mini from MF but because of the temporary nature I never got it.
OP said it all, I am more skeptical and less patient, They’ve made me not believe in anet at all for countless reasons, GW2 is a failure on my eyes, but wth? MMO feeders would be happy here or in any other trash “P2W/F2P” MMO that offers exactly the same stuff
People just have a way too ridged view of how things have to be done.
Take ascended trinkets, all it takes is 20 laurels to get that so at most that’s 20 dailies though it can be as low as 15.
I like to do DE? play 20 days of them and I can get an ascended trinket.
I like to sPvP, same thing
I like to do dungeons? like wiseSo in summary, your suggestion is to farm the existing content.
I already figured that out, but thanks anyway.
No, my suggestion is to play the game like dailies dont even exist, you’ll complete them anyway.
I’ve been here from the beginning. There were some threads complaining about “no endgame” from the content locusts. It wasn’t nearly as huge as you’re making out. And only a fraction of those were specifically asking for new tiers of loot. Most of them were just asking for something new to do.
I’ve been around since early beta, and I vouch for that.
People really were asking for more things. GW2’s endgame is still abysmal compared to many other MMOs, and being locked down to Orr and Frostgorge was particularly insulting after promises of dynamic level scaling.
More stuff, not more tiny sections of the world to grind in. More cosmetic loot, not a gear treadmill.
Which is entirely the problem I am talking about. The manifesto isnt a bunch of disjointed promises where you can pick and choose a few and ignore the others. Its a vision for a direction for the entire game.
What happened is players were greedy they were given a whole world to play in. Enough events / quests to level up a single character to max level 6+ times all of which can still be enjoyed at max level, no need to level up a new alt. A huge variety of content that didnt all have to do with questing and combat. A world you could even just simple explore and enjoy but players rejected that. all they did is camp down in Orr not even Frostgorge which was my level 80 zone of choice and was very sparsely populated. No they went to Orr because thats where the best rewards were to be found.
This way of acting has repercussions, they couldnt stick to their original vision once that happened. Updating events in old zones like they planned to do, like the manifesto stated would have been suicide even though that is exactly what I wished had happened. How long would players have stuck farming Orr? how long before people they got bored and quit taking the game down with them?
When people unexpectedly stuck to Orr Arenanet were essentially forced to introduce new content that moved people around and they couldnt do that without offering better rewards then what there was to be had in Orr.
Do you really think new cosmetics would have achieved that? Because most of the cosmetic rewards arent to be had by playing in Orr, they’re found else where in the world yet no one cared about that so what makes anyone thing that if instead of putting in ascended gear they’d had put in new cosmetic rewards they’d have solved anything?
There are two things that would have had people move out from Orr. A New tier set that couldnt be acquired by playing in Orr or better monetary rewards.
Had they chosen to go with more money every time they wanted to move players to somewhere else they’d need to increase the amount of reward to be had resulting in rampant inflation + you can never get players to play in more then 1 place at the same time. So I am glad they didnt go with that personally.
Stop blaming Arenanet for everything, players arent entirely innoccent in what happened either in my opinion.
People just have a way too ridged view of how things have to be done.
Take ascended trinkets, all it takes is 20 laurels to get that so at most that’s 20 dailies though it can be as low as 15.
I like to do DE? play 20 days of them and I can get an ascended trinket.
I like to sPvP, same thing
I like to do dungeons? like wiseLaurel prices for trinkets are 30, 35 and 40+50 ectos — not 20. If you’re including monthlies or badges, say so — and include those requirements in your calculation — not this disingenuous “20” crap.
You’re right, I remembered the cost incorrectly or perhaps went with WvW prices. In any case it doesnt change anything expect the length of time. 5 laurels, 20 laurels, 35 laurels or even 50 laurels is still something you earn by just playing the game.
besides while I totally admit I was mistaken about the 20 you can get that price as well if you pay some badges which thanks to the AP rewards anyone has a truck load of anyway.
Anet are fools for turning GW2 into a traditional MMO. It just means that when the next newer, and thus inevitably shinier, MMO comes out, people will leave in droves because there’d be nothing unique about GW2.
sad part is there already a number of players eyeing several MMO releases this year. Myself I got my eyes on Wildstar.
Wildstar has a lot going for it and I will probably check it out myselkittenda nice that its scifi and the humor seems awesome.
But seriously I am confused how people annoyed with Gw2 for introducing a single tier with a promise that others arent going to be introduced for years to come if ever would think thats unacceptable and say they’re switching over to a game that has a gear treadmill part of its core design.
What happened is players were greedy…
What happened is that the game ended up having a pitiful amount of content for an MMO, most of it repetitive and not fun, with most rewarding kind being locked to absurd by-the-numbers grind in one-two high-level zones (one of which is terrible).
People never asked to be subjected to this barren wasteland like a stuck record. They asked for it to be improved, because there was room for improvement. But ANet seemingly didn’t listen. Since the end-game wasn’t enjoyable enough, many people who leveled out to 80 simply up and left.
Why you’re blaming players for ANet’s own failings to deliver on its own promise of level-agnostic content, horizontal progression, and hordes of content is beyond me.
5 laurels, 20 laurels, 35 laurels or even 50 laurels is still something you earn by just playing the game.
This kind of logic as well.
30 days worth of quests for one of five trinkets? Even WoW would blush at this kind of nonsensical grind.
What happened is that the game ended up having a pitiful amount of content for an MMO, most of it repetitive and not fun, with most rewarding kind being locked to absurd by-the-numbers grind in one-two high-level zones (one of which is terrible).
People never asked to be subjected to this barren wasteland like a stuck record. They asked for it to be improved, because there was room for improvement. But ANet seemingly didn’t listen. Since the end-game wasn’t enjoyable enough, many people who leveled out to 80 simply up and left.
Why you’re blaming players for ANet’s own failings to deliver on its own promise of level-agnostic content, horizontal progression, and hordes of content is beyond me.
This kind of logic as well.
30 days worth of quests for one of five trinkets? Even WoW would blush at this kind of nonsensical grind.
Pitiful amount of content? Are you kidding? 1100 hours now and i still havent seen all the game has to offer. 7 full zones I didnt even start yet much less seen every dynamic event, found every jumping puzzle, found every hidden secret, did every skill challenge, found my way to every vista, checked out the story of every NPC, etc….
Why am I blaming the players and not Arenanet, because Arenanet delivered all of that. There is plenty of level agnostic content thanks to downleveling. There is ton of content! Even stuff thats unheard of in other MMOs at least prior to it being revealed by Gw2. Which other MMOs had at least 6x the zones / quests / content required to get to max level at launch? None… which other MMOs had JPs? None, which other MMOs had hidden content for those who like exploring, ton of stuff that most players are never going to see cause its all well hidden outside the beaten path? None that I Am aware off.
Arenanet delivered on all that it promise a beautiful open world with tons of things to do where you didnt need to worry about gear all you had to do is go out and enjoy. A world where you didnt have to wait to get to max level to enjoy it what you do at level 1 is exactly what you do at level 80 the whole game is the end game play whatever you desire. We had all that exactly as promised but players like you didnt care for any of that. They dont care about keg brawl because while it may be a ton of fun it doesnt give you a ton of gold per hour that you get farming events in Orr. They dont care about exploring an enjoy other lower level zones they hadnt done leveling up, or try to experience all the events they missed in zones they already did or trying to discover any hidden secrets there in. They just wanted more gold and more reward.
The content is there and was there since day 1. You just ignored it because there was bigger profit to be done else where. Dont blame the game for not having it just cause you decided it wasnt worth your time. Dont blame the game for being repetitive if you choose to repeat the same handful of events over and over again.
30 days of playing whatever you choose to play isnt a grind its at worst a long wait. And no WoW wouldnt blush, it would call you a newb. You wish it only takes 30 days to get a single BiS item in WoW 10 years of playing the game will not get you BiS because BiS in a vertical treadmill doesnt exist, all you get is BiS today which tomorrow might mean nothing.
People just have a way too ridged view of how things have to be done.
Take ascended trinkets, all it takes is 20 laurels to get that so at most that’s 20 dailies though it can be as low as 15.
I like to do DE? play 20 days of them and I can get an ascended trinket.
I like to sPvP, same thing
I like to do dungeons? like wiseSo in summary, your suggestion is to farm the existing content.
I already figured that out, but thanks anyway.No, my suggestion is to play the game like dailies dont even exist, you’ll complete them anyway.
Well, how long would all of that content last until you have to start repeating it? When it comes down to having to repeat it, in what way does it vary, if at all?
I feel like that was more in-line with what BlueZone was highlighting, and it doesn’t just apply to dailies. Having to repeat content can be synonymous with having to “grind” it.
Pitiful amount of content? Are you kidding? 1100 hours now and i still havent seen all the game has to offer.
You’re not the metric by which it’s judged.
30 days of playing whatever you choose to play isnt a grind its at worst a long wait.
Partially because you’re actively ignoring grind’s very existence… “A long wait”, yeah, right. Not “grind”, just “wait”.
7 full zones I didnt even start yet much less seen every dynamic event, found every jumping puzzle, found every hidden secret, did every skill challenge, found my way to every vista, checked out the story of every NPC, etc….
If you’re going to count inconsequential nonsense like this, then Pokemon Red has just as much “content”.
What’s on display in GW2 would be appropriate in a single-player RPG, not an MMO.
There is plenty of level agnostic content thanks to downleveling.
…Which doesn’t work.
Now, if it actually did, that’d be another story.
which other MMOs had JPs? None
Well thank god for that. They’re horrible.
I mean, come on, you’re really reaching here. I understand you want to point out how much content there is, and there’s certainly plenty – just not plenty enough to sink hundreds of hours into, not nearly enough to support an MMO. In fact that’s why most post-Everquest MMOs resort to horrible grind: in the end, there’s not enough content and in GW2, there’s even less than you’d expect.
Sure if you want to be obsessive-compulsive and hunt down every achievement you can waste lots of time – but that’s absurd. It’s not fun.
Arenanet delivered on all that it promise a beautiful open world with tons of things to do where you didnt need to worry about gear all you had to do is go out and enjoy.
From where I stand, they delivered two green and two grey featureless plains each with a whole four kinds of randomly-spawning quests. And you do need to worry about gear on those – because when you’ve outgrown them, you have to make a choice between leaving them behind forever, or making ends meet with abysmal income and next to no rewards.
The content is there and was there since day 1. You just ignored it because there was bigger profit to be done else where.
Oh, I did? I didn’t know that.
Because I’ve earned a grand total of 5 gold in the first few months of playtime since I didn’t spend a minute’s worth of farming champions in Orr, looking up locations of rich nodes, speedrunning dungeons, or whatever the hell. Being done with the story, I went back to zones I found least featureless and tried to have fun – and that lasted a grand total of an hour before the “content” got so tiringly repetitive and unrewarding I just couldn’t stomach it. I suppose if 150 days worth of daily quests is “no grind at all” to you, you may have different tolerance to repetition, but mine only goes so far.
I bought into the promise that GW2 would allow me to simply run around its vast open plains, running into fun events every once in a while, and enjoying the feel of adventure and exploration, and so I played that way.
And it sucked. Because the game doesn’t support this kind of gameplay on any level. Hell, WoW is better at all of them. THAT game.
And now with “Living Story” focusing on all the different facets of OCD, clearly the developers don’t share my vision for the game. But all that would be forgiven if I could just run around the featureless green plains helping occasional newbies slaughter Moas without wanting to gouge out my eyes because the game runs at 18 FPS for some reason.
Is it fun? No, it isn’t fun.
That all is definitely ArenaNet’s fault.
If players are running a champ train twelve hours a day, it’s ArenaNet’s fault. If they’re farming Orr, ArenaNet’s fault. Players go where the game tells them to go, that’s simply the nature of any game. If having fun in the game requires playing against the game, that is definitely ArenaNet’s fault.
(edited by Draco.2806)
What happened is players were greedy…
What happened is that the game ended up having a pitiful amount of content for an MMO, most of it repetitive and not fun, with most rewarding kind being locked to absurd by-the-numbers grind in one-two high-level zones (one of which is terrible).
People never asked to be subjected to this barren wasteland like a stuck record. They asked for it to be improved, because there was room for improvement. But ANet seemingly didn’t listen. Since the end-game wasn’t enjoyable enough, many people who leveled out to 80 simply up and left.
Why you’re blaming players for ANet’s own failings to deliver on its own promise of level-agnostic content, horizontal progression, and hordes of content is beyond me.
5 laurels, 20 laurels, 35 laurels or even 50 laurels is still something you earn by just playing the game.
This kind of logic as well.
30 days worth of quests for one of five trinkets? Even WoW would blush at this kind of nonsensical grind.
Honestly I think a huge part of it is how god awful the loot system in GW2 is. For some reason this mmo doesn’t have set loot tables, so people go to Orr and farm because they get everything all in the same place and virtually nothing from different areas. The champion runs finally gave a chance to get a specific skin from the boxes but the chance is so small even that is hardly worth wasting time on.
I feel people like games even if they have a gear grind like wow, swtor, rift, and soon to be wildstar because the loot systems make sense. This boss drops this stuff..go fight him for it. These other bosses drop this other stuff go fight him for it. In GW2 it’s kinda like fighting bosses and baddies and getting a pile of junk, like here ya go.
What happened is that the game ended up having a pitiful amount of content for an MMO, most of it repetitive and not fun, with most rewarding kind being locked to absurd by-the-numbers grind in one-two high-level zones (one of which is terrible).
People never asked to be subjected to this barren wasteland like a stuck record. They asked for it to be improved, because there was room for improvement. But ANet seemingly didn’t listen. Since the end-game wasn’t enjoyable enough, many people who leveled out to 80 simply up and left.
Why you’re blaming players for ANet’s own failings to deliver on its own promise of level-agnostic content, horizontal progression, and hordes of content is beyond me.
This kind of logic as well.
30 days worth of quests for one of five trinkets? Even WoW would blush at this kind of nonsensical grind.
Pitiful amount of content? Are you kidding? 1100 hours now and i still havent seen all the game has to offer. 7 full zones I didnt even start yet much less seen every dynamic event, found every jumping puzzle, found every hidden secret, did every skill challenge, found my way to every vista, checked out the story of every NPC, etc….
Why am I blaming the players and not Arenanet, because Arenanet delivered all of that. There is plenty of level agnostic content thanks to downleveling. There is ton of content! Even stuff thats unheard of in other MMOs at least prior to it being revealed by Gw2. Which other MMOs had at least 6x the zones / quests / content required to get to max level at launch? None… which other MMOs had JPs? None, which other MMOs had hidden content for those who like exploring, ton of stuff that most players are never going to see cause its all well hidden outside the beaten path? None that I Am aware off.
Arenanet delivered on all that it promise a beautiful open world with tons of things to do where you didnt need to worry about gear all you had to do is go out and enjoy. A world where you didnt have to wait to get to max level to enjoy it what you do at level 1 is exactly what you do at level 80 the whole game is the end game play whatever you desire. We had all that exactly as promised but players like you didnt care for any of that. They dont care about keg brawl because while it may be a ton of fun it doesnt give you a ton of gold per hour that you get farming events in Orr. They dont care about exploring an enjoy other lower level zones they hadnt done leveling up, or try to experience all the events they missed in zones they already did or trying to discover any hidden secrets there in. They just wanted more gold and more reward.
The content is there and was there since day 1. You just ignored it because there was bigger profit to be done else where. Dont blame the game for not having it just cause you decided it wasnt worth your time. Dont blame the game for being repetitive if you choose to repeat the same handful of events over and over again.
30 days of playing whatever you choose to play isnt a grind its at worst a long wait. And no WoW wouldnt blush, it would call you a newb. You wish it only takes 30 days to get a single BiS item in WoW 10 years of playing the game will not get you BiS because BiS in a vertical treadmill doesnt exist, all you get is BiS today which tomorrow might mean nothing.
All that is well and good, but it doesn’t really matter how many zones or events they have if it’s just the same boring junk. Centaurs invading here, escort this guy, clear this mine, whoop de doo. In the grand scheme of things, there really isn’t much variance in gameplay and that’s why multiple zones filled with the same stuff is still boring.
That all is definitely ArenaNet’s fault.
If players are running a champ train twelve hours a day, it’s ArenaNet’s fault. If they’re farming Orr, ArenaNet’s fault. Players go where the game tells them to go, that’s simply the nature of any game. If having fun in the game requires playing against the game, that is definitely ArenaNet’s fault.
Yup, i really love how it eventually turns “but its player’s fault”
No it isnt, unless your premise is that somehow ANet doesnt have control over their game.
But its all water under the bridge now, they implemented gear treadmill, very bad gear treadmill which most other games do much much better, and decided to follow WoW and its clones with game that want even designed for it. It certanly isnt what they advertised back at launch.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
(edited by MikaHR.1978)
notice how many times “can we” is mentioned?
they tried?
the problem is the players, not the developers.
the players left the game because there was not enough grind.
the players felt boring because there was not enough grind.etc.
I firmly believe that the kinds of players who stuck around for carrots, treadmills, and grinds are the exact kinds of players who are going to jump ship the moment the next flashy MMO hits the market. I doubt they were ever in it for the long haul regardless of what changes the developers made. If I’m right and they do leave, that leaves a game designed for players that no longer play. Just as bad, that leaves a portion of jaded players who otherwise would have supported the game long-term with a game they no longer enjoy.
With the next-gen consoles, several AAA MMOs, and an inevitable WoW expansion all around the corner, we’ll see soon enough whether I’m right or wrong. For ArenaNet’s sake, they’d better hope I’m wrong.
I don’t know about that. A lot of players play MMOs to achieve something and show off, it’s often those players that play MMOs like single player games, ie just for fun, that move on after they’ve gobe through everythibg in the game. The grinders tend to hang around because they’ve done so much work they don’t want to start as a newbie again.
It’s the very reason why games like RuneScape are popular, because you can work your kitten off to achieve something and feel über about it.
People just have a way too ridged view of how things have to be done.
Take ascended trinkets, all it takes is 20 laurels to get that so at most that’s 20 dailies though it can be as low as 15.
I like to do DE? play 20 days of them and I can get an ascended trinket.
I like to sPvP, same thing
I like to do dungeons? like wiseSo in summary, your suggestion is to farm the existing content.
I already figured that out, but thanks anyway.No, my suggestion is to play the game like dailies dont even exist, you’ll complete them anyway.
Well, how long would all of that content last until you have to start repeating it? When it comes down to having to repeat it, in what way does it vary, if at all?
I feel like that was more in-line with what BlueZone was highlighting, and it doesn’t just apply to dailies. Having to repeat content can be synonymous with having to “grind” it.
Its hard to say, I personally been playing over 1100 hours and didnt do everything yet but of course i repeated a lot of stuff to (ran dungeons multiple times, did some DE more then once, did some fractals etc…) At the very start when events happened way too often before of too many people in the same zone it took me a bout 20 hours to finish of a zone with practically no repeat of content. hence I would say you can get about 400 hours of no repeats when you factor in living story that goes up even more. but lets go with 400hours, repeating stuff again every 400 hours is hardly grinding especially since you choose which of it you want to repeat and you can go about it any order you want. There is a bit of variation based on how Dynamic Events succeed or fail… not a lot though in that generally they will succeed unless your solo and fail them on purpose to see what happens… thats an option too if you want more variety.
Thats just on PvE side. You can get your daily playing sPvP and WvW too… but in anycase if we remove dialies from the equation entirely you’ll still be playing the same content, so its not like you’re being forced to grind content you wouldnt other wise play. You’ll still be playing the same stuff provided you’re not quiting in which case the issue is mute anyway. There is no need to get your daily if you dont intent to play right?
which other MMOs had JPs? None
Well thank god for that. They’re horrible.
I mean, come on, you’re really reaching here. I understand you want to point out how much content there is, and there’s certainly plenty – just not plenty enough to sink hundreds of hours into, not nearly enough to support an MMO. In fact that’s why most post-Everquest MMOs resort to horrible grind: in the end, there’s not enough content and in GW2, there’s even less than you’d expect.
Personally I do like jumping puzzles a lot and I do think there is a lot of content but part of the problem is that many content is not as much fun as it could be (partly because of currency reward in stead of the real reward) or not fun to redo multiple times and to make thinks worse many patches only made it worse not better.
But I don’t think it’s just the amount of content. If there content was more fun, more rewarding and good to do multiple times there would be enough for now and they could then expand it with expansions.
Also, no MMO on earth would possibly allow you to play as much as you want and never repeat a thing.
What happened is players were greedy…
What happened is that the game ended up having a pitiful amount of content for an MMO, most of it repetitive and not fun, with most rewarding kind being locked to absurd by-the-numbers grind in one-two high-level zones (one of which is terrible).
People never asked to be subjected to this barren wasteland like a stuck record. They asked for it to be improved, because there was room for improvement. But ANet seemingly didn’t listen. Since the end-game wasn’t enjoyable enough, many people who leveled out to 80 simply up and left.
Why you’re blaming players for ANet’s own failings to deliver on its own promise of level-agnostic content, horizontal progression, and hordes of content is beyond me.
5 laurels, 20 laurels, 35 laurels or even 50 laurels is still something you earn by just playing the game.
This kind of logic as well.
30 days worth of quests for one of five trinkets? Even WoW would blush at this kind of nonsensical grind.
Honestly I think a huge part of it is how god awful the loot system in GW2 is. For some reason this mmo doesn’t have set loot tables, so people go to Orr and farm because they get everything all in the same place and virtually nothing from different areas. The champion runs finally gave a chance to get a specific skin from the boxes but the chance is so small even that is hardly worth wasting time on.
I feel people like games even if they have a gear grind like wow, swtor, rift, and soon to be wildstar because the loot systems make sense. This boss drops this stuff..go fight him for it. These other bosses drop this other stuff go fight him for it. In GW2 it’s kinda like fighting bosses and baddies and getting a pile of junk, like here ya go.
Agree but I don’t mind it if there is no gear grind because I personally don’t like that so much. But overall you are correct. In another MMO I would fight a boss for a recipe or a skin or a mound or mini or some other cool item it dropped and for people who like gear grind it might be that armor thing. And I had fun doing so.
Here I kill a boss for.. uhhm? Well Tequatl now has a mini so thats the only reason for me to kill him but the mini-system is not fun in this game because most are just a gold-grind and then buying so I care less about mini’s in this game. Other reasons might be some achievements or just to check it out. It get’s boring very fast. It’s like people who have a vegetable garden. They can get there food in the store but most do it because they think it’s fun.. then again they plant vegetable plants because they like the reward (vegetables) not perse the planting itself. Thats becomes fun because of the reward.
As reason for this tactic I once again blame the gem-store focus. They want to have it gold-driven so people get a reason to buy gems. They put mini’s in the gem-shop to give them a reason to buy gems and so on.
(edited by Devata.6589)
@draco
Of course I am not the metric by which content is judged, didnt claim I was but then again the game is the same for everyone. You can skip content but you cannot create content thats not there.
Wait for getting the reward not for playing, you’re still enjoying the game playing whatever you choose to play
exploration, jumping puzzles and vistas might be inconsequential nonsense to you, its definitely not content that doesnt exist. Like I said, if you decided to skip content you’re entirely free to do so but if you’re accusing Anet of not creating not much content because you skipped most of it then you’re not being honest.
Down leveling works and all content can be done when down leveled just fine, not sure what you mean by it would be fine if it worked… cause well it does!
I understand you dont like jumping puzzles but your assumption that most people dont is most likely wrong. If people didnt care about jumping puzzle SAB wouldnt be the huge success it is since the whole mini game is one giant jumping puzzle. The clock tower was another fan favorite and received lots of praise on the forum. Again that didnt happen because people dont think JP have a place in MMO.
Unless you care nothing about reward and prefer rather to focus on enjoying the game which once again is the core of my argument.
So what you’re saying is what? that you enjoy nothing Gw2 has to offer? Because if once you reached max level like you said you went back to try and enjoy the rest of the open world and you couldnt even stick a whole hour it also means you didnt enjoy the previous 80 hours or so it took to get to max level. I mean its not like there was really any difference in the type of content you did so you had to hate that as well right?
So yeah sure, 150 days of play the game is a grind if you dont enjoy playing the game at all. Granted there but then again why play a game that offers nothing that you enjoy playing in the first place?
Also I beg to differ. WoW most certainly doesnt do open world exploration and playing better. For starters once you finish off a zone there is nothing left then one shotting mobs. There are literally no secrets to find, certain no hidden content of any kind you can run into. No secret events, no secret areas, no hidden ruins.. nothing. You might not enjoy open world exploration in Gw2 fine… but at least you can do it, in WoW its simply not possible.
Wildstar has a lot going for it and I will probably check it out myselkittenda nice that its scifi and the humor seems awesome.
But seriously I am confused how people annoyed with Gw2 for introducing a single tier with a promise that others arent going to be introduced for years to come if ever would think thats unacceptable and say they’re switching over to a game that has a gear treadmill part of its core design.
Cause Carbine are being upfront about their intentions. Cause BiS equipment in Wowish games is actually easier to obtain than ascended items in GW2. Cause the game design is driven by endgame content.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro