Guild Wars 2

Xae Isareth.1364:

Relentliss.2170:

Guild Wars 2

A game with a Casual difficulty level. Most of the game is trash mobs.

But introduces a hardcore grind for its latest tier of rewards. Ascended weapons are the biggest grind I have ever seen.

Who is this game aimed at then? The casual player doesn’t want to grind for the Ascended rewards. The hard core player finds the combat (the core of the game) trivial and unexciting.

It appeals to no group in particular.

First of all, what’s hardcore? I’ve always considered RuneScape to be a ‘hardcore’ game because of how hardcore you needed to be patient to get anything of value in that game. Nothing was actually difficult. You need to define hardcore.

I am not going to define commonly understood terms so you can be pedantic.

Xcom.1926:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Your “valid” criticism is what again?

No I said stop adding additional tiers to the game like you promised. Colin said he misjudged the community which is why they added ascended. He admitted it was a mistake on ANet’s part. They never “planned” to have ascended in the game. So they went back on their word and their original plan.

Now all I hope for is that they don’t add more tiers. As Colin promised again.

Another ascended gear complaint. I don’t know what is up with players and their obsession over ascended. I play the game as it is and there is HEAPS of content to enjoy. Take a step back, travel to areas that’re not frequented, do some events and pay attention to all the small details Anet has incorporated in them, from pre-event gestures to post-event banter by the NPC’s. That is only one element and I’m enjoying every bit of it.

I’m probably enjoying myself a lot more because I don’t consider what the general community deems as BiS gear as the only/ultimate reward. My reward comes from immersing myself in the game, meeting new people and just having a good time with guildies and other players (WvW and PvP included).

And I’m geared with rares and exotics and I still can’t see what the big fuss is all about in ascended gear incorporation. I’d say it’s more to work on and look forward to. Enjoy the game man, don’t stress yourself out.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Why is it bad to reward players for doing stuff with other people in open world group content?

It isn’t. Why is it good to load one of the pieces parts to make the best rewards only into content that requires large numbers of people, when large numbers trivialize the content (Wv3 is an exception to that, as numbers only trivialize if the other side doesn’t also have them)?

IndigoSundown.5419:

It isn’t. Why is it good to load one of the pieces parts to make the best rewards only into content that requires large numbers of people, when large numbers trivialize the content (Wv3 is an exception to that, as numbers only trivialize if the other side doesn’t also have them)?

this isn’t true though, mini dungeons, jumping puzzles, WvW camps, small world chests, guild missions, dungeons don’t require large numbers of people.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

BlueZone.4236:

To me, personal story is one example of meaningful content (I’m going ignore the execution flaws the story has).

Do you mean content with a background-story? If so, then I’m totally with you. I also think that the game misses little quest-like stories that introduce more lore into the game. Imho Anet implements meaningful content each month. It’s only that it’s meaningful content for different kinds of players. The dungeon lovers got their meaningful content this month whereas the raid lovers got theirs with Tequatl. I also love jumping puzzles and got something not long ago also, but those stories which give the world more depth I miss the most.

I don’t know what’s going on with the writers, but I haven’t seen them releasing their stuff in a good enough quantity (and quality as well) a while ago. Queens Gauntlet had a few nice scenes in the intro, but I expect more from an mmo, personally.

I’m feeling a bit lazy to make a bigger post so I’ll just say, yes, I agree with what you’re saying here, especially with the stories that give the world more depth.
I find lore/story related motivations to be more “fun” than non-story related motivations since the gameplay is largely the same. I consider ascended gear to be kind of insulting in terms of what it used to mean in Guild Wars 1.
What would motivate you more, ascension a la Guild Wars 1 (backstory, motivation, purpose), or ascended gear (Trading Post or farming existing content which has zero meaning other than increased stats)?
I think ANet needs to stop with the Short Story posts and put them in the game, where it belongs!

BlueZone.4236:

I think ANet needs to stop with the Short Story posts and put them in the game, where it belongs!

absolutely, even though they did the same in GW1 they should really care more about the lore/story-fans in future releases imho.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

IndigoSundown.5419:

It isn’t. Why is it good to load one of the pieces parts to make the best rewards only into content that requires large numbers of people, when large numbers trivialize the content (Wv3 is an exception to that, as numbers only trivialize if the other side doesn’t also have them)?

this isn’t true though, mini dungeons, jumping puzzles, WvW camps, small world chests, guild missions, dungeons don’t require large numbers of people.

Of the things you’ve listed, only one of the Guild missions, Guild Challenge, drops Dragonite Ore. That’s why I said “one of.”

My Guild has not unlocked those, so I don’t know how many people they require to succeed. Given the amount dropped, I’m going to guess it’s not a small guild thing — though I’ll be happy to be proved wrong.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Of the things you’ve listed, only one of the Guild missions, Guild Challenge, drops Dragonite Ore. That’s why I said “one of.”

My Guild has not unlocked those, so I don’t know how many people they require to succeed. Given the amount dropped, I’m going to guess it’s not a small guild thing — though I’ll be happy to be proved wrong.

you’re right, Dragonite Ore is rather limited to mass-content. I must have played too much WvW that I forgot about that, since it also drops from Keep- & Castlelords, so I never had any problem in getting that ore. At least I can say that the world-bosses got more challenging with the latest patch (most of them) and big numbers don’t necessarily mean trivializing content. I see where you’re coming from, though.

Hmm what if they’d make it possible to “claim” a champion for you or your 2-man group? You buy a “new Signet of Capture” from a karma vendor (only for lv.80s since dragonite ore drops only for 80s) and cast it on the champion. Now the champ becomes immune to everyone but you (and a single group member) for 15 minutes. If you kill him, he drops dragonite ore and 3 champ-lootbags for you.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Hmm what if they’d make it possible to “claim” a champion for you or your 2-man group? You buy a “new Signet of Capture” from a karma vendor (only for lv.80s since dragonite ore drops only for 80s) and cast it on the champion. Now the champ becomes immune to everyone but you (and a single group member) for 15 minutes. If you kill him, he drops dragonite ore and 3 champ-lootbags for you.

That would be a cool addition to the game. Nice idea.

nvm

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ToPocHi.2480:

Xcom.1926:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Your “valid” criticism is what again?

No I said stop adding additional tiers to the game like you promised. Colin said he misjudged the community which is why they added ascended. He admitted it was a mistake on ANet’s part. They never “planned” to have ascended in the game. So they went back on their word and their original plan.

Now all I hope for is that they don’t add more tiers. As Colin promised again.

Another ascended gear complaint. I don’t know what is up with players and their obsession over ascended. I play the game as it is and there is HEAPS of content to enjoy. Take a step back, travel to areas that’re not frequented, do some events and pay attention to all the small details Anet has incorporated in them, from pre-event gestures to post-event banter by the NPC’s. That is only one element and I’m enjoying every bit of it.

I’m probably enjoying myself a lot more because I don’t consider what the general community deems as BiS gear as the only/ultimate reward. My reward comes from immersing myself in the game, meeting new people and just having a good time with guildies and other players (WvW and PvP included).

And I’m geared with rares and exotics and I still can’t see what the big fuss is all about in ascended gear incorporation. I’d say it’s more to work on and look forward to. Enjoy the game man, don’t stress yourself out.

You don’t know the pressure that comes with being a meta elitist scumbag!

IndigoSundown.5419:

That would be a cool addition to the game. Nice idea.

Sadly a lot of people would say this is nice for griefers. So this should work under certain conditions:

• you can only claim each champion once per hour. The champ has an internal cooldown, so you can’t chain-claim it for your group.
• once you go down, the boss loses the invulnerability to others and becomes free for all again
• you can’t kite the boss indefinitely. When the champ can’t go into melee once each minute, he loses the condition too and becomes free for all.

IndigoSundown.5419:

That would be a cool addition to the game. Nice idea.

Oh yeah, and then have these boards aflame with rage that Arena.net has done ANOTHER 180 on their manifesto by ruining the community and encouraging people to NOT work together in the open world.

That is an absolutely TERRIBLE idea.

chemiclord.3978:

IndigoSundown.5419:

That would be a cool addition to the game. Nice idea.

Oh yeah, and then have these boards aflame with rage that Arena.net has done ANOTHER 180 on their manifesto by ruining the community and encouraging people to NOT work together in the open world.

That is an absolutely TERRIBLE idea.

True but maybe we should stop looking to the manifesto. Biggest problem is that there are some bad idea’s in there that are still in and some good idea’s on what they indeed did a 180.

About the idea however, I am not so sure about it. The whole karma part and when you claim it other people can use him anymore all a little strange imo. I don’t think it is a good idea.

Smith.1826:

Galen Grey.4709:

fair enough, I havent played wow in years so tell me if I were a max level character who finished everything released so far what options do I get with regards to content to play?

Eh, a WoW vs. GW2 discussion? I don’t think anyone would benefit from that, and I’m sure there are tons of other places to do so. I’m just saying to be fair to it: look into what content it can provide before stating as such.

Would you rather its tied exclusively to new content you now have to repeat for months?

New content has a much better chance at being interesting rather than content thats had the fun played out of it. So I could certainly imagine myself spending more time with the new. I just don’t like having to repeat content when it doesn’t add anything to the gameplay. Plus I already did that with TA, once is more than enough, thank you very much.

This one

Right, I was pointing out how getting an ascended weapon can be considered less fun and more grindy: How could I get one without having to touch stale content? I’d sure like to have BiS gear, but it’s not fun to get, and with being this far into the game I’d think that’d be understandable.

You can plug in any MMO you choose, i dont mean to pick on WoW only mentioned WoW specifically cause you mentioned it first. Thing is Gw and Gw2 are the only MMOs that let you replay the whole world and all the content at max level and thats a very good thing to avoid the repetition boredom. All other MMOs WoW included only provide a subset, generally a very small subset of the whole.

New content is interesting when you’re playing it for the first time + a few times after that perhaps. Repeating a new thing for the 25th time in a row isnt more interesting then repeating something that you played for the first and the last time 1 year ago, not by far!

for starters ascended gear is gear intended for stale content… I am not saying its not useful to any content just that’s its undeniable that its specifically designed primarily for Fractals which in your view would be stale content. But more than what do you expect? They clearly want Ascended gear to be a medium term goal taking at least 15 days to acquire by even as long as a month. Do you realise how grindy every update would to enforce those time lines with new content? Take the last update for example a single dungeon path the least grindy way you could possible do that is have the path give you a token thats limited to once a day and have you run that path 15 times in a row. Are you seriously telling me you’d find that more fun then being given the choice to run any 15 dungeons paths you choose?

BlueZone.4236:

I’m not expecting it to be fresh and new every single time.
No, I don’t have an clear answer, but clearly ANet doesn’t either since they haven’t got an answer to “Can we make something so much fun you might want to play it multiple times because it’s fun, rather than making you do it because the game says you have to?”
Remember who’s the game designer. It’s not my job.
You’re right that the story behind each DE helps make them feel unique. But the story behind each DE is largely forgettable, mainly because of the fact many start without you (or possibly because whoever started the event gave up on finishing the event). I rarely encounter an event from start to finish because they’re all in progress, so why should I care at that point?
The “personal” story is probably the most interesting “quest” since it’s supposed to be personal (let’s ignore the whole “it’s Trahearne’s story” aspect), but I don’t intend to level another alt (1 alt is enough for me) to get through it all due to grinding to access the entire story.

Regarding SAB, yes some people did enjoy it, yet I agree with Josh’s conclusion that without the old reward schedule he wouldn’t get back players.

Its not that simple, simply because people dont want fun they want reward. Again pointing at launch, where people farming orr because they found the content enjoyable? based on the hate for Orr expressed on the forum I am going to assume not really. Do people enjoy zergs? hmm I am going to assume nope again based on what people say on the forum. Plenty of examples how people trade fun for reward. I mean doing the queens gauntlet there was a thread of a few people begging arena-net to nerf deadeye’s reward because it was so profitable they said they couldn’t stop farming him and they couldnt repeat it any longer. In these conditions nothing Arenanet can ever do can be a fun thing to repeat because A) doing a fun event to repeat is not enough, it has to be the most rewarding. if its the most rewarding people are going to repeat it long after it stops being fun (no matter how good the most enjoyable repeatable content will become boring after being repeated a few times) so in the end no one is going to remember that content as fun after they’re burned out on it. Reward simply kills fun but if arenanet dont put in the reward most people will not care about it! Again a lot of people claim they like challenging content yet during the queen’s gauntlet where did you find the majority of the people? challenging liadri with as many gambits as possible? nope the large majority was in the middle farming and most players who actually went to the arenas farmed deadeye while a handful played liadri.

Yes you’re absolutely right there agreed 100%… that dynamic events start on their own is great for making a world feel living but it is a big bummer story wise. What I do when I get an event in the middle of the chain is follow it through to the end, follow the npcs to their starting location then hand around in the area waiting for the chain to start from scratch. I also talk to npcs to discover if there is an event chain thats likely to start from there and hang around. you have to wait which I agree is a problem as not many players will be willing to do that!

As for them being forgettable, there are some generic stories sure but a lot of them are quite interesting actually. Some even clever and funny like the one in bloodtide coast where first you have a dynamic event chain that has a pirate captain forcing his first mate to abandon some value rare brew of ale and then there is a different dynamic event chain looking for valuable artifices which ends up finding that ale as its major find. It actually made me laugh even though I did it in the reverse order… IE First I did the event that found the brew and then i did the event that left it there, still it was cool when I discovered it was just a cheat and there was a reason for that brew to be there.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

BlueZone.4236:

To me, personal story is one example of meaningful content (I’m going ignore the execution flaws the story has).

Do you mean content with a background-story? If so, then I’m totally with you. I also think that the game misses little quest-like stories that introduce more lore into the game. Imho Anet implements meaningful content each month. It’s only that it’s meaningful content for different kinds of players. The dungeon lovers got their meaningful content this month whereas the raid lovers got theirs with Tequatl. I also love jumping puzzles and got something not long ago also, but those stories which give the world more depth I miss the most.

I don’t know what’s going on with the writers, but I haven’t seen them releasing their stuff in a good enough quantity (and quality as well) a while ago. Queens Gauntlet had a few nice scenes in the intro, but I expect more from an mmo, personally.

Its there but not that in your face.

Talking to NPCs will give you a lot of background on whats going on. Dynamic events chain and in between there is voice over dialog between the npcs that progresses the story from one event to the other in that chain.

Every release also has the writers issuing background stories on the characters involved most of these are really good but are easy to miss as they’re not advertised.
you can find them here:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/

Example
This story is for this release
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/short-story-twilight-preparations/

Gear threadmill… that’s a good one.

Some people mistake a walk over a bump for a threadmill.

Real threadmills have you getting gear to do content to get the next tier of gear, to do content that gives yet another tier of gear.

That’s not how it is in GW2 right now.

Using “fun” as a core metric is a pretty convenient fail safe for pushing out mediocre content Actually. That developer article is flashy and decorated just right but anyone can see that by saying “fun=success” can always be justified by “well fun is subjective”

Look at ascended gear. The biggest time gate in the game, the best gear that you have to keep logging in for just to get. The hypocrisy is overwhelming. The manifesto is laughable, a PR stunt at best.

In the end though, when you take the game for what it is and find some area of enjoyment in it, it’s easy to overlook . Is GW2 a bad game? No. Is it what I thought it would be? Far from it.

MrIllusion.5304:

Gear threadmill… that’s a good one.

Some people mistake a walk over a bump for a threadmill.

Real threadmills have you getting gear to do content to get the next tier of gear, to do content that gives yet another tier of gear.

That’s not how it is in GW2 right now.

You have a point, in GW2 it’s just crap loot drops from here to eternity.

Do the hardest content – get crap loot.
Do the easiest content – get crap loot.
Do a grind – get crap loot.
Do LS storylines – get crap loot.
Do dungeons – get crap loot.

Do all of the above hundreds of times over and over again and get nothing but crap loot.

A gear grind GW2 is definitely not because that would mean that sometimes something decent will drop for you.

And after a couple of thousand hours playing, I can assure you that this is not the case.

Don’t get me wrong, I play the game because it is fun – for the moment – but it’s starting to wear thin. Personally I am about out of content that is worth doing (or that I feel like doing) and the fun is starting to drain away from it – and yes, endless crap loot is putting me off logging in.

The old “I’d like to be rewarded for the effort” just doesn’t apply to this game anymore and over and above everything, this is what is making me look forward to my next MMO.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

• you can’t kite the boss indefinitely. When the champ can’t go into melee once each minute, he loses the condition too and becomes free for all.

I like your idea, but I don’t agree with this particular restriction. Why shouldn’t people be allowed to kite? It’s a champion, which is intended to be fought by a larger group, so kiting seems like a logical way to kill it. Saying “no kiting” also forces anyone who fight at a distance—like, say, a Ranger—to run up to the champion once per minute, interrupting their rotation, and dodge a telegraphed move for an arbitrary reason. I think if they can kill it in <15 minutes, then anything’s fair.

I think this sytem might also cause problems when it comes to lvl 80 players claiming champions that are part of the “trains” in Queensdale and/or Frostgorge. I don’t particularly like those trains because I think they cause unnecessary community conflict, but I think that signets of capture could exacerbate that problem.

Otherwise, though, I do enjoy your idea, especially since soloing champions is challenging entertainment. I would say perhaps make the cooldown longer, or make it so that you can only do something like that 1-3 times a day.

MrIllusion.5304:

Gear threadmill… that’s a good one.

Some people mistake a walk over a bump for a threadmill.

Real threadmills have you getting gear to do content to get the next tier of gear, to do content that gives yet another tier of gear.

That’s not how it is in GW2 right now.

And Ascended is not ‘needed’ as gear from treadmills are. Is it the best? Yes. If you’re a min/maxer you’ll want it. Will it make stuff go faster? Yep since Serk Ascended>Serk Exotic, but do you ‘NEED’ it? Nope. Difference isn’t that big to begin with.

alternative idea to the champion-claiming: heathunter challenges

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/headhunter-challenges/first#post2978779

basically very similar, but now you engage the captured champions in an arena while the champion you interacted with stays free for all in his location. So no more griefing of other players possible and without the restrictions of the first suggestion.

Gnat.9405:

Using “fun” as a core metric is a pretty convenient fail safe for pushing out mediocre content Actually. That developer article is flashy and decorated just right but anyone can see that by saying “fun=success” can always be justified by “well fun is subjective”

Look at ascended gear. The biggest time gate in the game, the best gear that you have to keep logging in for just to get. The hypocrisy is overwhelming. The manifesto is laughable, a PR stunt at best.

In the end though, when you take the game for what it is and find some area of enjoyment in it, it’s easy to overlook . Is GW2 a bad game? No. Is it what I thought it would be? Far from it.

And please tell me in which game do you get gear without even logging in!

people keep talking about time gates as some kind of uber effort when in fact they’re a great way to remove grind. The whole point of ascended gear was to give people who wanted a goal that took time to achieve. In other MMOs that would be raiding/doing dungeons/grinding reputation through repeatable quests for months. Dailies still take that amount of time but instead of forcing you to repeat the same generally long content over and over again leave you free to play whatever you choose. In any case in no game are you going to get your BiS gear without logging in.

So can we stop this daily forces you to log in every day non sense. No game in the history of MMOs ever gave you best in slot in return for not even playing the game.

Medieval.1679:

MrIllusion.5304:

Gear threadmill… that’s a good one.

Some people mistake a walk over a bump for a threadmill.

Real threadmills have you getting gear to do content to get the next tier of gear, to do content that gives yet another tier of gear.

That’s not how it is in GW2 right now.

You have a point, in GW2 it’s just crap loot drops from here to eternity.

Do the hardest content – get crap loot.
Do the easiest content – get crap loot.
Do a grind – get crap loot.
Do LS storylines – get crap loot.
Do dungeons – get crap loot.

Do all of the above hundreds of times over and over again and get nothing but crap loot.

A gear grind GW2 is definitely not because that would mean that sometimes something decent will drop for you.

And after a couple of thousand hours playing, I can assure you that this is not the case.

Don’t get me wrong, I play the game because it is fun – for the moment – but it’s starting to wear thin. Personally I am about out of content that is worth doing (or that I feel like doing) and the fun is starting to drain away from it – and yes, endless crap loot is putting me off logging in.

The old “I’d like to be rewarded for the effort” just doesn’t apply to this game anymore and over and above everything, this is what is making me look forward to my next MMO.

Crap loot is the price you have to pay for not having vertical progression. What is good loot, like you correctly say its good gear thats better then what you currently have. The only other decent loot would be valuable stuff but if they do that then you’d get inflation so the only option remaining is lots of crap loot with some super rare valuable drops like custom skins / precursors / ascended weapons.

Its the price to pay

Galen Grey.4709:

Gnat.9405:

Using “fun” as a core metric is a pretty convenient fail safe for pushing out mediocre content Actually. That developer article is flashy and decorated just right but anyone can see that by saying “fun=success” can always be justified by “well fun is subjective”

Look at ascended gear. The biggest time gate in the game, the best gear that you have to keep logging in for just to get. The hypocrisy is overwhelming. The manifesto is laughable, a PR stunt at best.

In the end though, when you take the game for what it is and find some area of enjoyment in it, it’s easy to overlook . Is GW2 a bad game? No. Is it what I thought it would be? Far from it.

And please tell me in which game do you get gear without even logging in!

people keep talking about time gates as some kind of uber effort when in fact they’re a great way to remove grind. The whole point of ascended gear was to give people who wanted a goal that took time to achieve. In other MMOs that would be raiding/doing dungeons/grinding reputation through repeatable quests for months. Dailies still take that amount of time but instead of forcing you to repeat the same generally long content over and over again leave you free to play whatever you choose. In any case in no game are you going to get your BiS gear without logging in.

So can we stop this daily forces you to log in every day non sense. No game in the history of MMOs ever gave you best in slot in return for not even playing the game.

Chronicals of Spelborn?
http://www.1up.com/previews/chronicles-of-spellborn

Not that I really care if it would just be s small difference. I think it is fine if they add an extra level of gear that is for the people who like to go for that but only if it’s profit is so small people will not be able to not do content or get kicked out of parties or will really have a big disadvantage in WvW. So if every item would have 1 power (for example) it would be fine. With ascended it is a little more (3 per item) but the problem is that while the stats are still only a little more it’s the agony resistance that makes you really require it to play content. Anet already stated they would use agony more in the future.

I don’t know if the ascended armor is also getting slots for agony resistance but if it does it means everybody needs it and it’s not just some nice extra for the people who want to go for it like mini’s are for other people.

Besides.. naming dailies not a grind because you have some form of choice seems a little strange. It is still a grind. Many thinks keep coming back and at some point you are just running around killing thinks purely for the daily. I did stop doing dailies a few months ago and now only do them when I get them just by playing.. what should be every day I play but in reality it only happens once in a while, or when I see that I have 4/5 and there is one option that is fairly easy to get.

It’s very dull content.

I rather would indeed do quest (not the same but in most games you can not even do the same quest multiple times.. only with another char) or challenging raids or something like that to get the armor I need. Then at least I have fun getting there. (and that was the topic about)

Devata.6589:

Chronicals of Spelborn?
http://www.1up.com/previews/chronicles-of-spellborn

Not that I really care if it would just be s small difference. I think it is fine if they add an extra level of gear that is for the people who like to go for that but only if it’s profit is so small people will not be able to not do content or get kicked out of parties or will really have a big disadvantage in WvW. So if every item would have 1 power (for example) it would be fine. With ascended it is a little more (3 per item) but the problem is that while the stats are still only a little more it’s the agony resistance that makes you really require it to play content. Anet already stated they would use agony more in the future.

I don’t know if the ascended armor is also getting slots for agony resistance but if it does it means everybody needs it and it’s not just some nice extra for the people who want to go for it like mini’s are for other people.

Besides.. naming dailies not a grind because you have some form of choice seems a little strange. It is still a grind. Many thinks keep coming back and at some point you are just running around killing thinks purely for the daily. I did stop doing dailies a few months ago and now only do them when I get them just by playing.. what should be every day I play but in reality it only happens once in a while, or when I see that I have 4/5 and there is one option that is fairly easy to get.

It’s very dull content.

I rather would indeed do quest (not the same but in most games you can not even do the same quest multiple times.. only with another char) or challenging raids or something like that to get the armor I need. Then at least I have fun getting there. (and that was the topic about)

What in Chronicles of Spellborn you could earn gear without playing the game? or sigils? cause even though armor in spellborn had no stats you still needed to play the game to get it.

Isnt that what they did? Ascended gear gives you between 5% – at most 10% advantage over Exotic Items depending on infusions and if you’re factoring a weapon which due to the fixed damage used for all calculations gives more then the 5% difference of the other pieces. Even going with the full 10% thats not an big disadvantage by any measure especially compared with other stuff you might come across in WvW.

Not that I am aware of, as far as I know they never said that they planed to use agony outside of fractals, do you have a source for that? Actually what they said suggested otherwise:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

“Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.”

Give you the edge means its not going to be required but is a nice bonus to have. So far that holds 100% true.

I am always surprised by people saying they seldom complete the daily by playing. What kind of content do you play ? Like what could you possibly play where you dont get to kill 50 critters? or some veterans? or a single champion? or Dodge? or inflict some conditions? or revive some npcs / pcs ? or gather a few nodes while walking around? or kill different kinds of mobs? Or a couple of group events? Or recycle some stuff? or gain a level? or gain 3 skill points? etc.. There is such a large variety of stuff you can do .. sure you will not complete the daily every single time, sometimes you get a few thing to finish off before logging off not saying it happens always but rarely? not in my experience.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Chronicals of Spelborn?
http://www.1up.com/previews/chronicles-of-spellborn

Not that I really care if it would just be s small difference. I think it is fine if they add an extra level of gear that is for the people who like to go for that but only if it’s profit is so small people will not be able to not do content or get kicked out of parties or will really have a big disadvantage in WvW. So if every item would have 1 power (for example) it would be fine. With ascended it is a little more (3 per item) but the problem is that while the stats are still only a little more it’s the agony resistance that makes you really require it to play content. Anet already stated they would use agony more in the future.

I don’t know if the ascended armor is also getting slots for agony resistance but if it does it means everybody needs it and it’s not just some nice extra for the people who want to go for it like mini’s are for other people.

Besides.. naming dailies not a grind because you have some form of choice seems a little strange. It is still a grind. Many thinks keep coming back and at some point you are just running around killing thinks purely for the daily. I did stop doing dailies a few months ago and now only do them when I get them just by playing.. what should be every day I play but in reality it only happens once in a while, or when I see that I have 4/5 and there is one option that is fairly easy to get.

It’s very dull content.

I rather would indeed do quest (not the same but in most games you can not even do the same quest multiple times.. only with another char) or challenging raids or something like that to get the armor I need. Then at least I have fun getting there. (and that was the topic about)

What in Chronicles of Spellborn you could earn gear without playing the game? or sigils? cause even though armor in spellborn had no stats you still needed to play the game to get it.

Isnt that what they did? Ascended gear gives you between 5% – at most 10% advantage over Exotic Items depending on infusions and if you’re factoring a weapon which due to the fixed damage used for all calculations gives more then the 5% difference of the other pieces. Even going with the full 10% thats not an big disadvantage by any measure especially compared with other stuff you might come across in WvW.

Not that I am aware of, as far as I know they never said that they planed to use agony outside of fractals, do you have a source for that? Actually what they said suggested otherwise:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

“Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content.”

Give you the edge means its not going to be required but is a nice bonus to have. So far that holds 100% true.

I am always surprised by people saying they seldom complete the daily by playing. What kind of content do you play ? Like what could you possibly play where you dont get to kill 50 critters? or some veterans? or a single champion? or Dodge? or inflict some conditions? or revive some npcs / pcs ? or gather a few nodes while walking around? or kill different kinds of mobs? Or a couple of group events? Or recycle some stuff? or gain a level? or gain 3 skill points? etc.. There is such a large variety of stuff you can do .. sure you will not complete the daily every single time, sometimes you get a few thing to finish off before logging off not saying it happens always but rarely? not in my experience.

Yes there where sigils but only sigils is of course a big difference from the whole armor set + sigils.

Like I said I don’t mind myself if the armor does not also include possibilities for agony. I did read that but I might be wrong. Still it would mean you could not do fractals. So if the armor does not give an agony profit I have no problem with it. Else it makes the game even more alt unfriendly so then I do have a problem with it.

Devata.6589:

Yes there where sigils but only sigils is of course a big difference from the whole armor set + sigils.

Like I said I don’t mind myself if the armor does not also include possibilities for agony. I did read that but I might be wrong. Still it would mean you could not do fractals. So if the armor does not give an agony profit I have no problem with it. Else it makes the game even more alt unfriendly so then I do have a problem with it.

I would imagine it does but small correction, having no agony resistance doesnt mean you cannot do fractals, it means you cannot do fractals on high levels. level 1 – 10 require 0 agony resistance and people claim they’re able to do level 11 – 20 without agony resistance as well with good dodging though I personally didnt try that.

Well it definitely doesnt make it alt friendly, thats for sure… but as a person who has 7 alts + a main I still find no problem enjoying my alts. in case of ascended gear if you intended to go into high level fractals do you need to do that with all your alts? why would it be that bad to have 1 or 2 characters for high level fractals and if you feel you want to use one of the other alts you play a lower level fractal?

Gnat.9405:

when you take the game for what it is

This was used for every failed game since WoW.

When i hear this phrase i know things have gone south.

“It was supposed to be a great game, but if you take it for what it is itll be fine”

And what it is? Medicore, not really good, not all bad, but yeah. And then they wonder why 90% of people quit the game in 1-3 months. Becasue, you know, “if you take it for what it is” lol

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Yes there where sigils but only sigils is of course a big difference from the whole armor set + sigils.

Like I said I don’t mind myself if the armor does not also include possibilities for agony. I did read that but I might be wrong. Still it would mean you could not do fractals. So if the armor does not give an agony profit I have no problem with it. Else it makes the game even more alt unfriendly so then I do have a problem with it.

I would imagine it does but small correction, having no agony resistance doesnt mean you cannot do fractals, it means you cannot do fractals on high levels. level 1 – 10 require 0 agony resistance and people claim they’re able to do level 11 – 20 without agony resistance as well with good dodging though I personally didnt try that.

Well it definitely doesnt make it alt friendly, thats for sure… but as a person who has 7 alts + a main I still find no problem enjoying my alts. in case of ascended gear if you intended to go into high level fractals do you need to do that with all your alts? why would it be that bad to have 1 or 2 characters for high level fractals and if you feel you want to use one of the other alts you play a lower level fractal?

Bad is the wrong word but I think it might be fun to do it with different classes. Makes it a different experience. Then again fractals is already not alt friendly because you need to level it for every char.

If it will only stay in Fractals it might not be the worst thing.. there are far more serious problems imo. However I am not so convince they will never gonna use agony for other things or Fractals might get a much bigger role and then it suddenly changes the whole aspect.

Devata.6589:

Bad is the wrong word but I think it might be fun to do it with different classes. Makes it a different experience. Then again fractals is already not alt friendly because you need to level it for every char.

If it will only stay in Fractals it might not be the worst thing.. there are far more serious problems imo. However I am not so convince they will never gonna use agony for other things or Fractals might get a much bigger role and then it suddenly changes the whole aspect.

Yes its definitely fun to play content with different classes but the game doesnt stop you from doing that, not even with leveling you can still get a new alt you finished max leveling today and play a level 10 fractal if you want, level only effects difficulty and reward it doesnt stop you from enjoying the content.

But what makes you think that exactly? I honestly see nothing that suggests agony is going to come out of fractals really. Its a possibility as nothing excludes it either obviously but at this point I honestly dont think its something to worry about.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Bad is the wrong word but I think it might be fun to do it with different classes. Makes it a different experience. Then again fractals is already not alt friendly because you need to level it for every char.

If it will only stay in Fractals it might not be the worst thing.. there are far more serious problems imo. However I am not so convince they will never gonna use agony for other things or Fractals might get a much bigger role and then it suddenly changes the whole aspect.

Yes its definitely fun to play content with different classes but the game doesnt stop you from doing that, not even with leveling you can still get a new alt you finished max leveling today and play a level 10 fractal if you want, level only effects difficulty and reward it doesnt stop you from enjoying the content.

But what makes you think that exactly? I honestly see nothing that suggests agony is going to come out of fractals really. Its a possibility as nothing excludes it either obviously but at this point I honestly dont think its something to worry about.

First of all I did hear people say Anet said. Thats extremely unreliable and I can not verify that but why would they make it up. Secondly just the fact that they soon have full ascended armor with much agony resistance I can not imagine that they would only use that for fractals. That means you have basically this whole tier of armor for one dungeon and one dungeon only (naming fractals a dungeon here). So or fractals is going to get a much bigger role or they are going to use it also in other parts of the world I think. So it’s not any factual reference that I have but at least a little comment sense where I base it on.

Devata.6589:

First of all I did hear people say Anet said. Thats extremely unreliable and I can not verify that but why would they make it up. Secondly just the fact that they soon have full ascended armor with much agony resistance I can not imagine that they would only use that for fractals. That means you have basically this whole tier of armor for one dungeon and one dungeon only (naming fractals a dungeon here). So or fractals is going to get a much bigger role or they are going to use it also in other parts of the world I think. So it’s not any factual reference that I have but at least a little comment sense where I base it on.

Some would make it up cause they want the game to fail for some wierd reason but lets not get too conspiracy. it could be a misunderstand by 1 person (like say for example arenanet did say when they released that this was just the beginning, they were referring to ascended gear and infusions but since on that release there was also agony they might have thought that to mean agony will be used in more places when the statement wasnt intended for it. That person says on the forum that arenanet said they’d use it outside of fractals because of that someone takes it as fact and repeats it where more players believe it and well you can see where this is going.
I follow the game quite closely being my favorite MMO so far and I never heard them say they planed to have agony outside of Fractals. I may have missed it I am not infallible but likewise from whoever you heard it might have been mistaken as well.

Well there has been agony resistance since last November and they still used it in one dungeon and one alone. Exotic armor has been here since launch yet not a single piece of content is balanced in such a way that unless you have full exotic armor you’ll fail the content. Thing is from day an important part of the core design has been that gear isnt important to play the game. If you want BiS that will give you an edge but if you dont want to bother with it at all you’re free to do so without being gated out of any content. Even in Fractals where the whole agony system was specifically designed
you’re not bared from any content there if you dont want to bother with agony at all.

So likewise commonsense also dictates that agony will always be locked in fractals or in at least if its new content it would have to work in a similar way were players will never be gated if they dont owe the gear.

MikaHR.1978:

Gnat.9405:

when you take the game for what it is

This was used for every failed game since WoW.

When i hear this phrase i know things have gone south.

“It was supposed to be a great game, but if you take it for what it is itll be fine”

And what it is? Medicore, not really good, not all bad, but yeah. And then they wonder why 90% of people quit the game in 1-3 months. Becasue, you know, “if you take it for what it is” lol

I’ve heard the very same thing said about every successful game when someone complained about it, including WoW.

I used to complain about WoW and my friend would say, take it for what it is. It’s such a natural response.

Are you suggesting that WoW is failing because someone said that about WoW?

Guild Wars 2 isn’t other games. It’s what it is. Some people like what it is. If ENOUGH people like what it is, it will be successful. Of course those people who like it are going to say take it as it is…not because it’s mediocre, but because they don’t want the changes you want.

ToPocHi.2480:

I’m probably enjoying myself a lot more because I don’t consider what the general community deems as BiS gear as the only/ultimate reward. My reward comes from immersing myself in the game, meeting new people and just having a good time with guildies and other players (WvW and PvP included).

And I’m geared with rares and exotics and I still can’t see what the big fuss is all about in ascended gear incorporation. I’d say it’s more to work on and look forward to. Enjoy the game man, don’t stress yourself out.

Hi there, you belong to the “gets it” category :P Feel free to add me to your friends list if interested.

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Gnat.9405:

when you take the game for what it is

This was used for every failed game since WoW.

When i hear this phrase i know things have gone south.

“It was supposed to be a great game, but if you take it for what it is itll be fine”

And what it is? Medicore, not really good, not all bad, but yeah. And then they wonder why 90% of people quit the game in 1-3 months. Becasue, you know, “if you take it for what it is” lol

I’ve heard the very same thing said about every successful game when someone complained about it, including WoW.

I used to complain about WoW and my friend would say, take it for what it is. It’s such a natural response.

Are you suggesting that WoW is failing because someone said that about WoW?

Guild Wars 2 isn’t other games. It’s what it is. Some people like what it is. If ENOUGH people like what it is, it will be successful. Of course those people who like it are going to say take it as it is…not because it’s mediocre, but because they don’t want the changes you want.

Nope, “take it for what it is” is exuse for mediocrity rofl

“enough” people liked Vanguard also. so what? Its still a failed game just as any other failed game (even worse).

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Gnat.9405:

when you take the game for what it is

This was used for every failed game since WoW.

When i hear this phrase i know things have gone south.

“It was supposed to be a great game, but if you take it for what it is itll be fine”

And what it is? Medicore, not really good, not all bad, but yeah. And then they wonder why 90% of people quit the game in 1-3 months. Becasue, you know, “if you take it for what it is” lol

I’ve heard the very same thing said about every successful game when someone complained about it, including WoW.

I used to complain about WoW and my friend would say, take it for what it is. It’s such a natural response.

Are you suggesting that WoW is failing because someone said that about WoW?

Guild Wars 2 isn’t other games. It’s what it is. Some people like what it is. If ENOUGH people like what it is, it will be successful. Of course those people who like it are going to say take it as it is…not because it’s mediocre, but because they don’t want the changes you want.

Nope, “take it for what it is” is exuse for mediocrity rofl

“enough” people liked Vanguard also. so what? Its still a failed game just as any other failed game (even worse).

So when people say it about the game you think is the best, it doesn’t mean that, but when they say it about a game you don’t like they do?

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Gnat.9405:

when you take the game for what it is

This was used for every failed game since WoW.

When i hear this phrase i know things have gone south.

“It was supposed to be a great game, but if you take it for what it is itll be fine”

And what it is? Medicore, not really good, not all bad, but yeah. And then they wonder why 90% of people quit the game in 1-3 months. Becasue, you know, “if you take it for what it is” lol

I’ve heard the very same thing said about every successful game when someone complained about it, including WoW.

I used to complain about WoW and my friend would say, take it for what it is. It’s such a natural response.

Are you suggesting that WoW is failing because someone said that about WoW?

Guild Wars 2 isn’t other games. It’s what it is. Some people like what it is. If ENOUGH people like what it is, it will be successful. Of course those people who like it are going to say take it as it is…not because it’s mediocre, but because they don’t want the changes you want.

Since I am quoting Vayne I can be reasonably sure I won’t be infracted. So here goes …

The difference between WoW and GW2 in their respective heydays? About 7 million people in my estimation.

Galen Grey.4709:

You can plug in any MMO you choose, i dont mean to pick on WoW only mentioned WoW specifically cause you mentioned it first.

I brought it up when you said “most MMOs only allow you to do dungeons and raids”, which I disagreed with, insinuating that you may want to look into exactly what content exists with most other MMOs, and pointing at WoW as the easiest example. The burden of proof lies with you.

New content is interesting when you’re playing it for the first time + a few times after that perhaps. Repeating a new thing for the 25th time in a row isnt more interesting then repeating something that you played for the first and the last time 1 year ago, not by far!

It certainly isn’t, but repeating that year old content today a second time doesn’t hold much interest, either – hence my introduction into this thread in reply to BlueZone’s post. You may want to read up on that again.

All those dungeon paths I’ve completed – numerous times – nearly a year ago, so I have no interest in replaying them. I earned map completion on one character and 70% on another, so I have no interest in going back to the world: I’ve already played all of it. So these new rewards are grindy as hell.

It might help to know that if given the choice to having to grind new content for a month or grind any of the old content for a month, I’d choose neither. If I HAD to choose, I’d rather a “new reward” come attached with new content, not a “new reward” attached to old content. In that case, I’d make some progress towards that reward.

Smith.1826:

Galen Grey.4709:

You can plug in any MMO you choose, i dont mean to pick on WoW only mentioned WoW specifically cause you mentioned it first.

I brought it up when you said “most MMOs only allow you to do dungeons and raids”, which I disagreed with, insinuating that you may want to look into exactly what content exists with most other MMOs, and pointing at WoW as the easiest example. The burden of proof lies with you.

Like I said WoW is not one of the games I play So I have no idea first hand what the end game consists. According to WoW players though it still fits the bill:
http://www.wowwiki.com/End-game

Is there anything that the above link neglects to mention?

Smith.1826:

It certainly isn’t, but repeating that year old content today a second time doesn’t hold much interest, either – hence my introduction into this thread in reply to BlueZone’s post. You may want to read up on that again.

All those dungeon paths I’ve completed – numerous times – nearly a year ago, so I have no interest in replaying them. I earned map completion on one character and 70% on another, so I have no interest in going back to the world: I’ve already played all of it. So these new rewards are grindy as hell.

It might help to know that if given the choice to having to grind new content for a month or grind any of the old content for a month, I’d choose neither. If I HAD to choose, I’d rather a “new reward” come attached with new content, not a “new reward” attached to old content. In that case, I’d make some progress towards that reward.

I am sorry but if you find playing content a 2nd time grindy MMOs might not be the genre for you cause once you hit max level I know of no MMO that gives a stream of fresh content to play. The closest is once again Gw2 that pumps out new content every 2 weeks.

At the end of the day its a question of tastes. You prefer to repeat something new 25 times in a row, I prefer to have a thousand things and I can choose 25 items of them to repeat a 2nd time.

Galen Grey.4709:

Smith.1826:

Galen Grey.4709:

You can plug in any MMO you choose, i dont mean to pick on WoW only mentioned WoW specifically cause you mentioned it first.

I brought it up when you said “most MMOs only allow you to do dungeons and raids”, which I disagreed with, insinuating that you may want to look into exactly what content exists with most other MMOs, and pointing at WoW as the easiest example. The burden of proof lies with you.

Like I said WoW is not one of the games I play So I have no idea first hand what the end game consists. According to WoW players though it still fits the bill:
http://www.wowwiki.com/End-game

Is there anything that the above link neglects to mention?

Smith.1826:

It certainly isn’t, but repeating that year old content today a second time doesn’t hold much interest, either – hence my introduction into this thread in reply to BlueZone’s post. You may want to read up on that again.

All those dungeon paths I’ve completed – numerous times – nearly a year ago, so I have no interest in replaying them. I earned map completion on one character and 70% on another, so I have no interest in going back to the world: I’ve already played all of it. So these new rewards are grindy as hell.

It might help to know that if given the choice to having to grind new content for a month or grind any of the old content for a month, I’d choose neither. If I HAD to choose, I’d rather a “new reward” come attached with new content, not a “new reward” attached to old content. In that case, I’d make some progress towards that reward.

I am sorry but if you find playing content a 2nd time grindy MMOs might not be the genre for you cause once you hit max level I know of no MMO that gives a stream of fresh content to play. The closest is once again Gw2 that pumps out new content every 2 weeks.

At the end of the day its a question of tastes. You prefer to repeat something new 25 times in a row, I prefer to have a thousand things and I can choose 25 items of them to repeat a 2nd time.

I, and many others, don’t consider what they pump out every 2 weeks content.

Galen Grey.4709:

Like I said WoW is not one of the games I play So I have no idea first hand what the end game consists. According to WoW players though it still fits the bill:
http://www.wowwiki.com/End-game

Is there anything that the above link neglects to mention?

Right, that’s not just “dungeons and raids”. This is why making generalizations is a dangerous idea.

I am sorry but if you find playing content a 2nd time grindy MMOs might not be the genre for you cause once you hit max level I know of no MMO that gives a stream of fresh content to play.

So you can understand why people are calling the game grindy?

And there are certainly a few games out there I’ve “repeated”, but they’ve been designed in certain aspects and contain mechanics that make the game inherently replayable. Dark Souls is such an example: with its brutal difficulty and freedom in character builds, there are plenty of ways to mix up your experience.

GW2 lacks both such things: a challenging and rewarding experience, and a substantial amount of different ways to play it. And this is just the PvE I’m talking about: the PvP in this game hasn’t been able to engage me, so I can’t rightly comment on it.

At the end of the day its a question of tastes. You prefer to repeat something new 25 times in a row…

Not exactly what I was trying to get across.

If I HAD to choose – i.e. If my life was literally at stake – I’d prefer to “grind” new content, because its new content. I would not want to grind in old content. I don’t care that there’s a million things to do, because I’ve already done them.

But since I have a choice, I wont “grind” in either scenario. If you introduce a gear grind with no new content, I won’t be interested. But, if you release a gear grind supported by new content, I’ll at least be interested in the new content.

That’s the point I’m getting across. That’s why I have no interest in this ascended “grind”, because it attempts to make the most out of a ton of content I’ve already thoroughly enjoyed. And that’s also why I consider it a “grind”, furthering adding on to my disappointment with their current direction.

Khal Drogo.9631:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Gnat.9405:

when you take the game for what it is

This was used for every failed game since WoW.

When i hear this phrase i know things have gone south.

“It was supposed to be a great game, but if you take it for what it is itll be fine”

And what it is? Medicore, not really good, not all bad, but yeah. And then they wonder why 90% of people quit the game in 1-3 months. Becasue, you know, “if you take it for what it is” lol

I’ve heard the very same thing said about every successful game when someone complained about it, including WoW.

I used to complain about WoW and my friend would say, take it for what it is. It’s such a natural response.

Are you suggesting that WoW is failing because someone said that about WoW?

Guild Wars 2 isn’t other games. It’s what it is. Some people like what it is. If ENOUGH people like what it is, it will be successful. Of course those people who like it are going to say take it as it is…not because it’s mediocre, but because they don’t want the changes you want.

Since I am quoting Vayne I can be reasonably sure I won’t be infracted. So here goes …

The difference between WoW and GW2 in their respective heydays? About 7 million people in my estimation.

Yep, I’d say a lot more than 7 million people. I’m not really sure what your point is.

WoW launched when it competed with a tiny handful of games, many of which were niche. None of the companies had Blizzard’s advertising dollars to play with. No one knows what would have happened if WoW launched now.

That game was in the right place at the right time, with a boatload of money behind it. I don’t know how you can compare.

It’s like expecting a scifi series coming out today to gain a following the size of the original Star Trek. Tiny budget and relatively low production values aside, it came out at a time when there were no serious science fiction series on television with a continuing cast of characters. Most people watching that today for the first time are like meh. Me, I think it’s great because I was there.

There have certainly been better scifi tv series since then, but none have had the impact of Star Trek. Doesn’t make it any better than subsequent series.

Relentliss.2170:

I, and many others, don’t consider what they pump out every 2 weeks content.

Fair enough, you dont like it, it provide no value to you and others who share your opinion but others do like it and play it. Their opinion counts too.

Relentliss.2170:

Galen Grey.4709:

Smith.1826:

Galen Grey.4709:

You can plug in any MMO you choose, i dont mean to pick on WoW only mentioned WoW specifically cause you mentioned it first.

I brought it up when you said “most MMOs only allow you to do dungeons and raids”, which I disagreed with, insinuating that you may want to look into exactly what content exists with most other MMOs, and pointing at WoW as the easiest example. The burden of proof lies with you.

Like I said WoW is not one of the games I play So I have no idea first hand what the end game consists. According to WoW players though it still fits the bill:
http://www.wowwiki.com/End-game

Is there anything that the above link neglects to mention?

Smith.1826:

It certainly isn’t, but repeating that year old content today a second time doesn’t hold much interest, either – hence my introduction into this thread in reply to BlueZone’s post. You may want to read up on that again.

All those dungeon paths I’ve completed – numerous times – nearly a year ago, so I have no interest in replaying them. I earned map completion on one character and 70% on another, so I have no interest in going back to the world: I’ve already played all of it. So these new rewards are grindy as hell.

It might help to know that if given the choice to having to grind new content for a month or grind any of the old content for a month, I’d choose neither. If I HAD to choose, I’d rather a “new reward” come attached with new content, not a “new reward” attached to old content. In that case, I’d make some progress towards that reward.

I am sorry but if you find playing content a 2nd time grindy MMOs might not be the genre for you cause once you hit max level I know of no MMO that gives a stream of fresh content to play. The closest is once again Gw2 that pumps out new content every 2 weeks.

At the end of the day its a question of tastes. You prefer to repeat something new 25 times in a row, I prefer to have a thousand things and I can choose 25 items of them to repeat a 2nd time.

I, and many others, don’t consider what they pump out every 2 weeks content.

I, and many others do consider what they pump out every 2 weeks content. The new dungeon path, for example, is as good as any dungeon path in the game…to me and many like me.

Smith.1826:

Right, that’s not just “dungeons and raids”. This is why making generalizations is a dangerous idea.

Please note I never said its just dungeons and raids and nothing else i said quoting the specific post on page 4 of this thread
" at max level all you get to do is repeat the same content which generally is dungeons / raid."

That doesnt mean its just dungeons and raid but means that the majority of it is dungeons and raids. There are other things of course like dailies / repeatable quests etc.. The point is gw2 gives you the entire game to repeat, other mmos give you a small subset of their content to repeat.

Smith.1826:

Not exactly what I was trying to get across.

If I HAD to choose – i.e. If my life was literally at stake – I’d prefer to “grind” new content, because its new content. I would not want to grind in old content. I don’t care that there’s a million things to do, because I’ve already done them.

But since I have a choice, I wont “grind” in either scenario. If you introduce a gear grind with no new content, I won’t be interested. But, if you release a gear grind supported by new content, I’ll at least be interested in the new content.

That’s the point I’m getting across. That’s why I have no interest in this ascended “grind”, because it attempts to make the most out of a ton of content I’ve already thoroughly enjoyed. And that’s also why I consider it a “grind”, furthering adding on to my disappointment with their current direction.

When does new content become old content though? If there was a new dungeon released and I play it once thats obviously new content, if i repeat it a 2nd time is that still new content? 5th time, 10th time etc… On the other hand does old content become new content again? If I get to play a dynamic event I only played once 1 year ago and it branches in a different way or scales in a different way can that be considered new content cause honestly to me it would feel newer content then the new dungeon I already did 5 times this week.

Well then you’re in the correct game because you’re free to ignore ascended gear you cannot do that in a lot of other MMOs… WoW may have fixed this from what I understand but there are still MMOs other there that in order to the latest raids you need to have a certain gear score and to get that certain gear score you need to grind a lot of raids to get the appropriate gear which in turn means you get nothing / very little to play for the year or so while you wait for an expansion.

gw2 might not be perfect but it and gw1 are still the closest games I know that come to what you want.

Vayne.8563:

Relentliss.2170:

Galen Grey.4709:

Smith.1826:

Galen Grey.4709:

You can plug in any MMO you choose, i dont mean to pick on WoW only mentioned WoW specifically cause you mentioned it first.

I brought it up when you said “most MMOs only allow you to do dungeons and raids”, which I disagreed with, insinuating that you may want to look into exactly what content exists with most other MMOs, and pointing at WoW as the easiest example. The burden of proof lies with you.

Like I said WoW is not one of the games I play So I have no idea first hand what the end game consists. According to WoW players though it still fits the bill:
http://www.wowwiki.com/End-game

Is there anything that the above link neglects to mention?

Smith.1826:

It certainly isn’t, but repeating that year old content today a second time doesn’t hold much interest, either – hence my introduction into this thread in reply to BlueZone’s post. You may want to read up on that again.

All those dungeon paths I’ve completed – numerous times – nearly a year ago, so I have no interest in replaying them. I earned map completion on one character and 70% on another, so I have no interest in going back to the world: I’ve already played all of it. So these new rewards are grindy as hell.

It might help to know that if given the choice to having to grind new content for a month or grind any of the old content for a month, I’d choose neither. If I HAD to choose, I’d rather a “new reward” come attached with new content, not a “new reward” attached to old content. In that case, I’d make some progress towards that reward.

I am sorry but if you find playing content a 2nd time grindy MMOs might not be the genre for you cause once you hit max level I know of no MMO that gives a stream of fresh content to play. The closest is once again Gw2 that pumps out new content every 2 weeks.

At the end of the day its a question of tastes. You prefer to repeat something new 25 times in a row, I prefer to have a thousand things and I can choose 25 items of them to repeat a 2nd time.

I, and many others, don’t consider what they pump out every 2 weeks content.

I, and many others do consider what they pump out every 2 weeks content. The new dungeon path, for example, is as good as any dungeon path in the game…to me and many like me.

Evidence…? I believe your “many others” number less than the “many others” that dislike Living story.

Vayne.8563:

The new dungeon path, for example, is as good as any dungeon path in the game…to me and many like me.

Too bad few content updates are of the same quality as the new dungeon path. And before anyone plays the “quality is subjective” card, it’s not entirely. There are objective measures by which something can be judged, and far too much of the Living Story content fails to meet these measures.