Guild Wars 2

Sirendor.1394:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sirendor.1394:

Keep going. Keep going. We want a game that is fun, not “grind x”, “farm y”, “zerg z”

Except that’s what people have been asking for…. so apparently that is what they want. Maaaaybe not you or me specifically, but obviously we aren’t loud enough to offset those crying for those things.

I would think casual players are ok with that, because they don’t play the game for hours. But people who do and have acquired some skill in a certain area of the game, albeit combat or jumping puzzles, feel the need for using that skill, not being forced into mindless action.

I’m going to try not to be offended by that, because I realize it’s not intended that way.

Both ‘casual’ and ‘hardcore’ players enjoy zerging. There are people that play 8+ hours a day and only do the zerg runs because that’s what they enjoy.

Both casual and hardcore enjoy dungeons.

Both casual and hardcore enjoy jumping puzzles.

Both casual and hardcore enjoy the LS, or aspects of the LS.

Both casual and hardcore enjoy WvW.

Both casual and hardcore enjoy spvp.

Some casuals are ‘skilled players’ as well, and the only reason they are deemed ‘casual’ is because they have lives outside the game and can’t play it like nothing else matters anymore.

Not everyone will like everything, it’s why we have options. It’s like going out to eat, your favorite restaurant offers a variety of drinks, appetizers, main courses, and deserts to appeal to a greater selection of people. GW2 is similar – it tries to offer a variety of activities in order to appeal to the greatest potential demographic. Their attempt to appeal to a variety of tastes isn’t perfect, the chef still needs to refine some of his recipes, but not every new item is going to be a smashing hit. Or maybe it is, but it’s still not to person ’x’s particular taste. So look at it the same way you tell your kids to look at it – try it, if you don’t like it, order something else; however you won’t know if you don’t like it if you don’t give it a chance.

Smith.1826:

I think what I’m saying is I don’t think you’re “helping out” the team if you bring something that’s ineffective. I’m fine with sub-optimal….

I disagree, why go into trouble of having to test so many different skills together if they didnt expect anyone to use them apart from just a little harmless experimentation on the side?

Smith.1826:

Right. Your milage may vary but this has been my experience, and I’ve fared very well.

And I think graveyard zerging was more of a “thing” because it permitted very little penalties for dying.

There might have been little penalities for dying but there surely wasnt an incentive for people to die. They couldnt get rid of their dodging and their healing ability so all those who died did so cause they healing / dodging alone wasnt enough. Now the tune changes not many people die and wipes arent very common especially in the classic dungeons. What changed? did healing or dodging become more powerful? nope perhaps what changed is If your ally dies because they cannot graveyard zerg you’re put in a bad situation so now in a way people are being forced to support each other more!

Smith.1826:

Cool! But oh no, I’ve already played everything at least once… AND I’m broke, which means I have to do the content I “love doing” again and again.

And that’s how “grind” happens, and why I view most if not all of these rewards as “grindy”.

Is it the games fault that out of a big variety of game play you only enjoy a miniscule subset? Are you expecting arenanet to ignore all the content other people enjoy and just focus on what you enjoy? You asked if it was possible to get those rewards without grinding. I explained how it is. If it doesnt apply for you because you dont enjoy most of what gw2 has to offer it doesnt change the fact when they designed the rewards they made sure it was possible to get them with no or at least minimal grind.

Smith.1826:

I didn’t want to play the game. But I didn’t want to miss out on any content, either. Just because I’m taking a break doesn’t mean I’m “done” with it, and when I did get back around to playing it I want to be able to pick up from where I left off.

Which you can do no problem. Just cause the world moved on doesnt mean you cannot pick up right were you left off.

i already explained that this is not a punishment. You arent punished because a movie you wanted to watch at the cinema was showing when you were sick or out of the country or for some other reason. All of Gw2 was primarily designed to progress irispective from the players. This isnt some new crazy idea, its a core design concept. It happens with Dynamic Events, It happens with World Events and It happens in the living story. Whether you take part or not events will unfold. But that doesnt mean you’re punished or left in a state where you cannot catch up. Anytime you wish you can pick up the game and continue from that point on. Every LS release has links to previous story lines but is independent enough that you’ll not be missing anything having missed previous parts. If you’re into lore you can just read up on what happened.

Smith.1826:

I’m well aware. But it also does something else that most MMOs aren’t able to do: scale content according to the number of players. …

It still doesnt make a difference. Even if all the content in the game could scale down to a single player it wouldnt mean there isnt a problem if you spent most of your time playing alone because there just arent enough players to have players for all the different content. That problem exists as is in mid level zones. And my server which is of medium population isnt really that bad, on sunday we have an overflow on southsun ! yet mid level zones arent that popular, when I player there i see 2 – 5 people most of the time.

Smith.1826:

When there’s a lot of people turning gold into gems, the price for it keeps going up. A player may “cave in” and see all the farming he has to do and just say “screw it, I’m turning cash into gems”.

Did that happen? cause before the champion loot update price of gems was at about 3.2g per 100 gems. now its at 5g per 100 gems.

I didnt take much part in champion farms but seems to me like they more then doubled the previous income meaning players are much better off now.

Not only that but the price of ancient wood has now for weeks remained stable at 6s per log. a typical player with 4x level 80 characters can get 144 ancient logs in about 30 minutes. Thats 9g or 200 gems for 30 mins per day. Players are willing to pay 9g to avoid 30 mins resource gathering so these champion trains seem to be making people a ton of money!

Galen Grey.4709:

I disagree, why go into trouble of having to test so many different skills together if they didnt expect anyone to use them apart from just a little harmless experimentation on the side?

I think they totally did, given the balance with primary attributes and different energy values. Given that this led to one of the most unique and (initially) balanced competitive games in recent gaming history, I’d say it was definitely for the best.

nope perhaps what changed is If your ally dies because they cannot graveyard zerg you’re put in a bad situation so now in a way people are being forced to support each other more!

That’s not the conclusion I’ve come to experience, mainly since my entire dungeon experience has been based off of teammates being able to take care of themselves – which allowed us all to put more focus and slicing through and killing everything.

I assumed that people just “got good”. Like I said, YMMV.

Is it the games fault that out of a big variety of game play you only enjoy a miniscule subset?

You assume I do. The only thing I don’t enjoy doing that much is WvW. I had a great time playing everything else. Its just that sans a reward, there’s no major differences in replaying any of it. You’re right in a sense: You won’t run into grind if you really love the game. But you can say the same of every MMO, to an extent.

Which you can do no problem. Just cause the world moved on doesnt mean you cannot pick up right were you left off.

I cannot access the Queen’s Gauntlet or SAB. That’s two great pieces of content off the top of my head that I cannot go back to whenever I wish.

I’d rather just leave this at the point where you were willing to make a compromise, so people who have missed the temp. content will get to play the meaty chunks of it. It may be revolutionary and important to you, but it won’t have the same effect on others. Just understand that the “Living World” doesnt work for everyone, and it’s certainly not working for most of the people in that thread I linked.

Did that happen?

I dunno, its just an example. What I do know is that paying cash for in-game rewards is the lifeblood of a free-to-play game, especially when it can give you a permanent advantage. I feel that cash>gems>gold could definitely be their most profitable form of real money transactions.

Galen Grey.4709:

Sirendor.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Galen Grey.4709:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sirendor.1394:

Keep going. Keep going. We want a game that is fun, not “grind x”, “farm y”, “zerg z”

Except that’s what people have been asking for…. so apparently that is what they want. Maaaaybe not you or me specifically, but obviously we aren’t loud enough to offset those crying for those things.

We actually got a game that applies to both our groups but you have to be willing to choose what you love playing rather then whats more profitable.

Quoted for truth. People who must play the most efficient way are gimping their own enjoyment. Play the most fun way, and don’t worry about rewards.

Playing the most fun way does sadly also mean you miss out on some content.

Like what exactly? Cause I do think I play the fun way and I dont think I missed any content since launch!

Not everyone enjoys zerging. Things I like are jumping puzzles and WvW small scale. Those are also the least rewarding parts of the game, which makes me lose out on a number of things (I could probs note others but those are the worst):

• New weapon/armour skins
• Ascended

Sirendor.1394:

Galen Grey.4709:

Sirendor.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Galen Grey.4709:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sirendor.1394:

Keep going. Keep going. We want a game that is fun, not “grind x”, “farm y”, “zerg z”

Except that’s what people have been asking for…. so apparently that is what they want. Maaaaybe not you or me specifically, but obviously we aren’t loud enough to offset those crying for those things.

We actually got a game that applies to both our groups but you have to be willing to choose what you love playing rather then whats more profitable.

Quoted for truth. People who must play the most efficient way are gimping their own enjoyment. Play the most fun way, and don’t worry about rewards.

Playing the most fun way does sadly also mean you miss out on some content.

Like what exactly? Cause I do think I play the fun way and I dont think I missed any content since launch!

Not everyone enjoys zerging. Things I like are jumping puzzles and WvW small scale. Those are also the least rewarding parts of the game, which makes me lose out on a number of things (I could probs note others but those are the worst):

• New weapon/armour skins
• Ascended

Roleplaying a zergling is the most rewarding part of the game. Do that or deal with getting what you need several times slower than the zerglings.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sirendor.1394:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sirendor.1394:

Keep going. Keep going. We want a game that is fun, not “grind x”, “farm y”, “zerg z”

Except that’s what people have been asking for…. so apparently that is what they want. Maaaaybe not you or me specifically, but obviously we aren’t loud enough to offset those crying for those things.

I would think casual players are ok with that, because they don’t play the game for hours. But people who do and have acquired some skill in a certain area of the game, albeit combat or jumping puzzles, feel the need for using that skill, not being forced into mindless action.

I’m going to try not to be offended by that, because I realize it’s not intended that way.

Both ‘casual’ and ‘hardcore’ players enjoy zerging. There are people that play 8+ hours a day and only do the zerg runs because that’s what they enjoy.

Both casual and hardcore enjoy dungeons.

Both casual and hardcore enjoy jumping puzzles.

Both casual and hardcore enjoy the LS, or aspects of the LS.

Both casual and hardcore enjoy WvW.

Both casual and hardcore enjoy spvp.

Some casuals are ‘skilled players’ as well, and the only reason they are deemed ‘casual’ is because they have lives outside the game and can’t play it like nothing else matters anymore.

Not everyone will like everything, it’s why we have options. It’s like going out to eat, your favorite restaurant offers a variety of drinks, appetizers, main courses, and deserts to appeal to a greater selection of people. GW2 is similar – it tries to offer a variety of activities in order to appeal to the greatest potential demographic. Their attempt to appeal to a variety of tastes isn’t perfect, the chef still needs to refine some of his recipes, but not every new item is going to be a smashing hit. Or maybe it is, but it’s still not to person ’x’s particular taste. So look at it the same way you tell your kids to look at it – try it, if you don’t like it, order something else; however you won’t know if you don’t like it if you don’t give it a chance.

Well wait: I didn’t mean hardcore <→ casual in a means of “playing a lot”. But I’m going to have to say that people with skill (<→ without skill) won’t have a problem with mindless zerging. I’m aware that a lot of “hardcore” both as “casual” players are zerging and doing other mindless activities…

The distinction I tried to make was maybe one more between players dedicated to ‘organised forms of the game that require you to use your mind’ (in that way more hardcore) and players who do not do this (more casual, more ‘newb level’, easymode, facerolling the keyboard).

I have a great respect for people in PvE who are running arah and high level fractals, because those people are actually doing something that requires some skill and team work. Similarly small scale WvW players need to have some degree of skill.
I would call those hardcore, opposite to the champion zergs (in PvE) and the blobs (in WvW), those last are casual.

Point being: those last, ruin the game for the more serious people, by farming gold and ‘showing’ how good they are by running around with prestige items like legendaries. It saddens me to see that.

Sirendor.1394:

Well wait: I didn’t mean hardcore <-> casual in a means of “playing a lot”. But I’m going to have to say that people with skill (<-> without skill) won’t have a problem with mindless zerging. I’m aware that a lot of “hardcore” both as “casual” players are zerging and doing other mindless activities…

The distinction I tried to make was maybe one more between players dedicated to ‘organised forms of the game that require you to use your mind’ (in that way more hardcore) and players who do not do this (more casual, more ‘newb level’, easymode, facerolling the keyboard).

I have a great respect for people in PvE who are running arah and high level fractals, because those people are actually doing something that requires some skill and team work. Similarly small scale WvW players need to have some degree of skill.
I would call those hardcore, opposite to the champion zergs (in PvE) and the blobs (in WvW), those last are casual.

Point being: those last, ruin the game for the more serious people, by farming gold and ‘showing’ how good they are by running around with prestige items like legendaries. It saddens me to see that.

Everyone plays differently. I think we really need to stop labeling groups and trying to classify people one way or another. People end up getting offended and generalities really aren’t that helpful. Not to mention, everyone sort of interprets what one means by a certain label a little bit differently.

Anyway, let people play they way they want to play. If they want to zerg in wvw, let them. Conversely if they want to play the roamer and hassle the enemy lines from the flanks, let them do that too. Then, somewhere in the middle, there is the person that does ‘more serious’ content more often than not, such as small group tactical warfare, but still enjoys taking a break and running the hamster wheel on occasion too. Running in the zerg or not in the zerg does not necessarily define ‘hardcore’ or ‘casual.’ neither does it define whether the player is skilled or unskilled. All it says is at that moment they are enjoying what they chose to do.

For some people, farming is their enjoyment, and there isn’t anything wrong with that. For other people, they enjoy playing that seriously annoying perma-stealth thief that pops up and ganks you in wvw. I don’t like the thief. To me, he ruins my enjoyment and my game play, should I have his play style removed simply because it doesn’t mesh with my wants? No, that wouldn’t be right or fair. Let bygones be bygones. You don’t have to play with them unless you choose to. There are plenty of other options out there for things to do.

Smith.1826:

I think they totally did, given the balance with primary attributes and different energy values. Given that this led to one of the most unique and (initially) balanced competitive games in recent gaming history, I’d say it was definitely for the best.

Hmm how does any of that prove they didnt expect people to use skills from other secondary professions. If anything them spending the time needed to design a system that balances it all out kinda proves the opposite i would say.

Smith.1826:

That’s not the conclusion I’ve come to experience, mainly since my entire dungeon experience has been based off of teammates being able to take care of themselves – which allowed us all to put more focus and slicing through and killing everything.

I assumed that people just “got good”. Like I said, YMMV.

Are you really telling me the people you dungeon with never buff each other, never throw regens, never cleanse conditions off team mates, never res each other or do any of the usual team work one would expect off a team?

Smith.1826:

You assume I do. The only thing I don’t enjoy doing that much is WvW. I had a great time playing everything else. Its just that sans a reward, there’s no major differences in replaying any of it. You’re right in a sense: You won’t run into grind if you really love the game. But you can say the same of every MMO, to an extent.

I dont assume you did, you said it. You said you played dungeons, world bosses and temples and repeated them to the point of burn out cause that was the only content you found challenging enough to be interesting. You also previously said you tried doing dynamic events but found them boring and uninteresting and you stopped. Dungeons world bosses and temples are a small chunk. Dynamic events are the big chunk.

No its not the same of every MMO unfortunately. In most games you get at max level and what options do you get? To get new rewards you’re funneled into repeating a miniscule subset of content. either repeatable quests, dungeons, raids etc… Even if you decide to care nothing for reward and progression you cannot simply go back play old content., Quests you can only do once and you’re extremely overpowered for old content. So if you go back to a previous zone you can just grind mobs which you will be one shotting. (of course you could always start an alt but that means time to get to the point you want to replay and you can only replay that once) In Gw2 there really isnt that problem.

Which you can do no problem. Just cause the world moved on doesnt mean you cannot pick up right were you left off.

Smith.1826:

I cannot access the Queen’s Gauntlet or SAB. That’s two great pieces of content off the top of my head that I cannot go back to whenever I wish.

I’d rather just leave this at the point where you were willing to make a compromise, so people who have missed the temp. content will get to play the meaty chunks of it. It may be revolutionary and important to you, but it won’t have the same effect on others. Just understand that the “Living World” doesnt work for everyone, and it’s certainly not working for most of the people in that thread I linked.

No you cannot (For now, they’ll both come back) but that doesnt stop you from playing the clock tower (another great piece of content) Not only that but actually it might be beneficial to you. You said it yourself that you tend to repeat content you like to the point of burn out where you cannot enjoy it any longer. Thus by give you breaks they’re actually ensuring you enjoy it when they introduce new rewards tied to that content. Isnt that a solution to the problem you’re having in a way?

I know it doesnt work for others but right now this is the only themepark MMO that has it, plenty of other mmos literally 1000s of them have the classic approach of permanent content. Why would you want to change the only unique thing.

Smith.1826:

I dunno, its just an example. What I do know is that paying cash for in-game rewards is the lifeblood of a free-to-play game, especially when it can give you a permanent advantage. I feel that cash>gems>gold could definitely be their most profitable form of real money transactions.

Perhaps but time and again Arenanet have proven that they’re not beyond loosing potential income just to have a better game.

The changes to Dyes in the beta, The crafting materials accessible through the bank, The new wallet, Shop items dropping from dailies … all these things brought in money to arenanet and the changes they made to them made it so players could easy avoid making certain purchases which in turn Arenanet lost money for the good of the game.

Sirendor.1394:

Galen Grey.4709:

Sirendor.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Galen Grey.4709:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sirendor.1394:

Keep going. Keep going. We want a game that is fun, not “grind x”, “farm y”, “zerg z”

Except that’s what people have been asking for…. so apparently that is what they want. Maaaaybe not you or me specifically, but obviously we aren’t loud enough to offset those crying for those things.

We actually got a game that applies to both our groups but you have to be willing to choose what you love playing rather then whats more profitable.

Quoted for truth. People who must play the most efficient way are gimping their own enjoyment. Play the most fun way, and don’t worry about rewards.

Playing the most fun way does sadly also mean you miss out on some content.

Like what exactly? Cause I do think I play the fun way and I dont think I missed any content since launch!

Not everyone enjoys zerging. Things I like are jumping puzzles and WvW small scale. Those are also the least rewarding parts of the game, which makes me lose out on a number of things (I could probs note others but those are the worst):

• New weapon/armour skins
• Ascended

Not really. Jumping puzzles give out Empyreal Fragment which is a component of Ascended gear. Dragonite ore can be acquired through guild missions which arent exactly zergy though I can understand if you feel they’re border line zergy. And Bloodstone Dust can be gotten from dungeons / fractals / guild missions. The rest of the stuff can be done even solo if you want.

I spent my life avoiding zergs. I was telling people to go 20 steps that way when they were complaining about zergs at launch.

The only new skin that you cannot get by zerging is actually the Tequalt exclusive ascended skins that yes but every thing else you really can!

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Sirendor.1394:

Galen Grey.4709:

Sirendor.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Galen Grey.4709:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sirendor.1394:

Keep going. Keep going. We want a game that is fun, not “grind x”, “farm y”, “zerg z”

Except that’s what people have been asking for…. so apparently that is what they want. Maaaaybe not you or me specifically, but obviously we aren’t loud enough to offset those crying for those things.

We actually got a game that applies to both our groups but you have to be willing to choose what you love playing rather then whats more profitable.

Quoted for truth. People who must play the most efficient way are gimping their own enjoyment. Play the most fun way, and don’t worry about rewards.

Playing the most fun way does sadly also mean you miss out on some content.

Like what exactly? Cause I do think I play the fun way and I dont think I missed any content since launch!

Not everyone enjoys zerging. Things I like are jumping puzzles and WvW small scale. Those are also the least rewarding parts of the game, which makes me lose out on a number of things (I could probs note others but those are the worst):

• New weapon/armour skins
• Ascended

Roleplaying a zergling is the most rewarding part of the game. Do that or deal with getting what you need several times slower than the zerglings.

whats this hurry everyone has, I really dont get it. Its like if it takes you 2 months to get your ascended weapon instead of 2 weeks the world is going to end so people rather get bored to death grinding those 2 weeks then getting a nifty reward after 2 months of enjoyable game play.

Seriously why?

Galen Grey.4709:

whats this hurry everyone has, I really dont get it. Its like if it takes you 2 months to get your ascended weapon instead of 2 weeks the world is going to end so people rather get bored to death grinding those 2 weeks then getting a nifty reward after 2 months of enjoyable game play.

Seriously why?

1) to play fotm
2) to be on even match in www
3) you are not effective with a single weaponset you need one of each weapon for each character and possibly more for WWW builds that is why this game is a total FAIL with vertical progression.
4) if you don t hurry by the time you get half your weapon, armors get released and you are so behind you can even uninstall the game.
People may not notice but if you started today you d possibly need more grinding of any other mmorpg to get up to date.
People will make excuses with calculations involving 10+ hours daily gameplay that are not acceptable.

P.S: why after 10 years of mmorpg people still deny that BiS equip is a necessity?
I thougt it was clear since the very first mmorpg….

LordByron.8369:

Galen Grey.4709:

whats this hurry everyone has, I really dont get it. Its like if it takes you 2 months to get your ascended weapon instead of 2 weeks the world is going to end so people rather get bored to death grinding those 2 weeks then getting a nifty reward after 2 months of enjoyable game play.

Seriously why?

1) to play fotm
2) to be on even match in www
3) you are not effective with a single weaponset you need one of each weapon for each character and possibly more for WWW builds that is why this game is a total FAIL with vertical progression.
4) if you don t hurry by the time you get half your weapon, armors get released and you are so behind you can even uninstall the game.

I’d like to stress point 3. I currently have 4 characters I play WvW on:
- Guardian
- Elementalist
- Warrior
- Mesmer

Guardian has: Cleric gear, Rabid gear, Knight gear, Soldier gear. (+ Trinkets)
Warrior has: Berserker gear, Soldier gear, Rabid gear. (+ Trinkets)
Elementalist has: Soldier gear, Cleric gear, Knight gear (+ Trinkets)
Mesmer has: Berserker gear, Rabid gear (+ Trinkets)

= 12 Sets of armour, used for all my respective builds ranging from tank, dps, condition damage, crowd control, support, heal.

And then I didn’t count all of the weapons and weapon combos I have for each of those builds and each class/char. Ascended make it impossible for me to reach BiS gear for one character, let alone for all my WvW characters.

LordByron.8369:

Galen Grey.4709:

whats this hurry everyone has, I really dont get it. Its like if it takes you 2 months to get your ascended weapon instead of 2 weeks the world is going to end so people rather get bored to death grinding those 2 weeks then getting a nifty reward after 2 months of enjoyable game play.

Seriously why?

1) to play fotm
2) to be on even match in www
3) you are not effective with a single weaponset you need one of each weapon for each character and possibly more for WWW builds that is why this game is a total FAIL with vertical progression.
4) if you don t hurry by the time you get half your weapon, armors get released and you are so behind you can even uninstall the game.
People may not notice but if you started today you d possibly need more grinding of any other mmorpg to get up to date.
People will make excuses with calculations involving 10+ hours daily gameplay that are not acceptable.

P.S: why after 10 years of mmorpg people still deny that BiS equip is a necessity?
I thougt it was clear since the very first mmorpg….

1. you can play fotm even if you never get a single ascended piece ever
2. you will never be evenly matched in WvW ascended gear or not
3. You perfectly effective without an ascended weapon but even so getting one is just a matter of time
4. really? any when will that be cause its been a year now I still havent even gotten a single ascended trinket and I do great in WvW not seeing this far behind at all!

In most games thats true, here its seems it isn’t try switching to rare gear and play some WvW. I think you might be surprised.

Galen Grey.4709:

Protoavis.9107:

Mathias.9657:

I think ANet have a very skewed view of fun since they dropped GW1.

Mindless grinding for example does not = fun.

But it does equal $$$

It’s what happens when companies start selling out instead of sticking with their ideals.

how does it equal $$$?

Cause actually its quite the opposite in my view. Take the champion farming when that was introduced it because an good source of ingame gold. In game gold can be used to buy gems thus generating less money for Arenanet at the same time People who lacked the gold to buy in game stuff now have an easy way to make money thus have less incentive to convert gems into in game gold.

I dont see how it in any way equals more $$$ honestly.

You don’t know how the game systems work….those gems bought with gold were originally bought by another player for $$$.

So we have a grindy way to earn gold by people at large, they then can buy gems (or whatever else causing some level of inflation of the top tier items) from other players. Now the thing about gold to gems and gems to gold is gold to gems is also a gold sink (ie if you sold 100 gems you’d get 4g85s but if you buy gems you’d spend 6g72s) . Ultimately the more gold in game, the higher the cost of the top tier items (ie legendaries, limited time skins, etc) but nothing much else is increasing in price, ie exotics have pretty much stayed the same price they also have. So over time the value of gems will increase resulting in higher gold pay outs to sellers.

Protoavis.9107:

You don’t know how the game systems work….those gems bought with gold were originally bought by another player for $$$.

So we have a grindy way to earn gold by people at large, they then can buy gems (or whatever else causing some level of inflation of the top tier items) from other players. Now the thing about gold to gems and gems to gold is gold to gems is also a gold sink (ie if you sold 100 gems you’d get 4g85s but if you buy gems you’d spend 6g72s) . Ultimately the more gold in game, the higher the cost of the top tier items (ie legendaries, limited time skins, etc) but nothing much else is increasing in price, ie exotics have pretty much stayed the same price they also have. So over time the value of gems will increase resulting in higher gold pay outs to sellers.

I seriously doubt that every single gem sold was actually bought by players. Did you ever see a situation where there were no gems for sale? cause that didnt even happen on the first day of early access. It entirely possible that people bought enough gems to satisfy the demand of course cannot exclude that but it doesnt seem plausible to me. Keep in mind that the price increased from 25s per 100 gems to something like 5g per 100 gems. Players dont get to choose the price its only effected by the ration of gem purchases with money to gem purchases with in game gold. That essentially means the request to buy ration has increased by like 20 fold at worst. (lets forget the 25s though cause that was at lauch. Lets go with the 1g that remain for a long long time. That suggests from that day to today the people buying with ingame money to the ones buying with real money (and selling them!) has increased by 5 times. Yet the system never ran out of gems to sale.

For that reason I dont think the gem system works by actually selling gems bought with real money and sold by players. It probably has an infinite supply and the actual buying and selling only affects the price of those gems nothing else. IF thats the case then increasing the supply of gold in game will result in less sales for Arenanet.

This topic is still going? The answer is simple:

ANet considers fun, what makes the most people spend money on their online shop.

This includes players logging in, playing hours and all the stuff, but only the result of feedback from real money transactions will be relfecting, if players want to play this game.

So ANet considers an implementation to be fun or not in the amount of money they earnt with it.

Galen Grey.4709:

Not really. Jumping puzzles give out Empyreal Fragment which is a component of Ascended gear. Dragonite ore can be acquired through guild missions which arent exactly zergy though I can understand if you feel they’re border line zergy. And Bloodstone Dust can be gotten from dungeons / fractals / guild missions. The rest of the stuff can be done even solo if you want.

I spent my life avoiding zergs. I was telling people to go 20 steps that way when they were complaining about zergs at launch.

The only new skin that you cannot get by zerging is actually the Tequalt exclusive ascended skins that yes but every thing else you really can!

Time is usually in denominator. Instead of doing hundreds of jp to get empyreal fragments or guild missions to get dragonite ore one could play something else. Something that one enjoys.

Galen Grey.4709:

whats this hurry everyone has, I really dont get it. Its like if it takes you 2 months to get your ascended weapon instead of 2 weeks the world is going to end so people rather get bored to death grinding those 2 weeks then getting a nifty reward after 2 months of enjoyable game play.

Seriously why?

One weapon is trivial. I guess casuals who like to swing a greatsword never swap their weapons but imagine some people do. You don’t want to lose 10 ar just because you had to swap your weapons.

Galen Grey.4709:

1. you can play fotm even if you never get a single ascended piece ever

No one here who wants ascended gear abolished cares about level 1 fractals. That’s even worse than the living story crap.

Fun, I think is abit too subjective. Surely, I reckon ANet’s definition of “Fun” isn’t exactly what I have in mind. Nonetheless, I think they are making good effort with the recent changes and I do like them quite abit. What I’m uninterested in and cannot derive any feeling of “fun” is where Living Story comes in; I do them only for the reward(s), not so much for fun (because they are a far stretch of fun imo, worse, they are temporary).

Anyway, I guess ANet can try and focus on like 2 or 3 directions (as a start) to improve the game. I don’t think they should try and do it all round. Perhaps they can focus on the game mechanics and world immersion first. Currently, the rewards system is ok (at least better than before) and we do have a somewhat working LFG tool. Items like Pile of Bloodstone Dust are abit too much in drop rate though, while I do appreciate them dropping at the current frequency, maybe make it so we can downgrade them into lower tiers of dust via some mystic forge recipe?

What I would really like to see is the varied use of currency and if possible, a currency exchange system (e.g. 1000 Karma => 1 Badge of Honor, etc) to allow acquisition of gear through a player’s preferred means. The exchange rate need not be very balanced and merely serve as an alternate route to acquisition of items with a small penalty.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sirendor.1394:

Well wait: I didn’t mean hardcore <-> casual in a means of “playing a lot”. But I’m going to have to say that people with skill (<-> without skill) won’t have a problem with mindless zerging. I’m aware that a lot of “hardcore” both as “casual” players are zerging and doing other mindless activities…

The distinction I tried to make was maybe one more between players dedicated to ‘organised forms of the game that require you to use your mind’ (in that way more hardcore) and players who do not do this (more casual, more ‘newb level’, easymode, facerolling the keyboard).

I have a great respect for people in PvE who are running arah and high level fractals, because those people are actually doing something that requires some skill and team work. Similarly small scale WvW players need to have some degree of skill.
I would call those hardcore, opposite to the champion zergs (in PvE) and the blobs (in WvW), those last are casual.

Point being: those last, ruin the game for the more serious people, by farming gold and ‘showing’ how good they are by running around with prestige items like legendaries. It saddens me to see that.

Everyone plays differently. I think we really need to stop labeling groups and trying to classify people one way or another. People end up getting offended and generalities really aren’t that helpful. Not to mention, everyone sort of interprets what one means by a certain label a little bit differently.

Anyway, let people play they way they want to play. If they want to zerg in wvw, let them. Conversely if they want to play the roamer and hassle the enemy lines from the flanks, let them do that too. Then, somewhere in the middle, there is the person that does ‘more serious’ content more often than not, such as small group tactical warfare, but still enjoys taking a break and running the hamster wheel on occasion too. Running in the zerg or not in the zerg does not necessarily define ‘hardcore’ or ‘casual.’ neither does it define whether the player is skilled or unskilled. All it says is at that moment they are enjoying what they chose to do.

For some people, farming is their enjoyment, and there isn’t anything wrong with that. For other people, they enjoy playing that seriously annoying perma-stealth thief that pops up and ganks you in wvw. I don’t like the thief. To me, he ruins my enjoyment and my game play, should I have his play style removed simply because it doesn’t mesh with my wants? No, that wouldn’t be right or fair. Let bygones be bygones. You don’t have to play with them unless you choose to. There are plenty of other options out there for things to do.

The problem is that the farmers, grinders, vertical progressionists and mindless little zerglings are changing this game for the worse. They’re changing it to what it was never supposed to be.

I don’t get why they would come here and whine that the game doesn’t have those things when there are plenty of other games out there that would cater specifically to them.

haviz.1340:

Time is usually in denominator. Instead of doing hundreds of jp to get empyreal fragments or guild missions to get dragonite ore one could play something else. Something that one enjoys.

Thing is if you dont like JP, World bosses, Temples, Dungeons, Fractals, WvW, Guild missions, Mini Dungeons etc.. what exactly is these people would be playing exactly?

haviz.1340:

One weapon is trivial. I guess casuals who like to swing a greatsword never swap their weapons but imagine some people do. You don’t want to lose 10 ar just because you had to swap your weapons.

People put way too much emphases on stats. You dont switch weapon just because its cool to switch weapons. You switch weapons because you need to perform an action the other weapon provides so yeah it would still make sense to switch weapon even if that weapon is slightly less effective then other one to deal damage. chances are its less effective to deal damage anyway since not all weapons of the same class are designed for damage.

haviz.1340:

No one here who wants ascended gear abolished cares about level 1 fractals. That’s even worse than the living story crap.

Because without an ascended weapon you cannot get further then level 1 right. People get to level 20 with no agony resistance what so ever but suddenly without the weapon even level 2 becomes an issue.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

The problem is that the farmers, grinders, vertical progressionists and mindless little zerglings are changing this game for the worse. They’re changing it to what it was never supposed to be.

They are playing the game the way they enjoy it. Who are you to say that their enjoyment means anything less than yours?

GW2 is far from perfect, and I have my complaints, but overall, I find it a pleasant time-waster. I have plenty to do, and ignore parts of the game I don’t enjoy. Does that offend you?

Galen Grey.4709:

Thing is if you dont like JP, World bosses, Temples, Dungeons, Fractals, WvW, Guild missions, Mini Dungeons etc.. what exactly is these people would be playing exactly?

Where did I say anything about dungeons, fractals, wvw and mini dungeons?

People put way too much emphases on stats. You dont switch weapon just because its cool to switch weapons. You switch weapons because you need to perform an action the other weapon provides so yeah it would still make sense to switch weapon even if that weapon is slightly less effective then other one to deal damage. chances are its less effective to deal damage anyway since not all weapons of the same class are designed for damage.

Where did I emphasise stats?

Because without an ascended weapon you cannot get further then level 1 right. People get to level 20 with no agony resistance what so ever but suddenly without the weapon even level 2 becomes an issue.

You cannot survive maw with 0 ar at scale 20+. And try scale 80.

Galen Grey.4709:

Hmm how does any of that prove they didnt expect people to use skills from other secondary professions.

I’m saying they didn’t want people running a Monk/Warrior build on a Warrior/Monk, and vice versa. In regards to increasing versatility, customizability, and a great form of horizontal progression, the secondary profession did it’s job wonderfully.

Are you really telling me the people you dungeon with never buff each other, never throw regens, never cleanse conditions off team mates, never res each other or do any of the usual team work one would expect off a team?

Don’t think I said that. It’s just not as prevalent as it is in other games. It reminds me more of the ‘teamwork’ as seen in Left 4 Dead, and much less so than the hundreds of different ways you could help your teammates out in GW1.

I dont assume you did, you said it. You said you played dungeons, world bosses and temples and repeated them to the point of burn out cause that was the only content you found challenging enough to be interesting.

I also said that sans PvP, I enjoyed most everything else. I’ve had a great time. DE’s, while fun, can be a bit samey, but I still enjoyed the ones I ran into. I’d like to think I’ve ran into most of them.

The game just fails to create any longevity for me. To each his own, of course, but I was able to repeat Dark Souls and Demon’s Souls nearly hundreds of times, and it’s mostly because of how inherently replayable they are. As I mentioned earlier, difficulty can be a big part of that, but it’s far from the only part.

No its not the same of every MMO unfortunately…

I’m merely saying how being “in love” or really caring about a game can make you gloss over what could be considered flaws, and that it can happen to any game. Not necessarily a bad thing at all: If I could love every game I played I’d be the happiest gamer ever.

Thus by give you breaks they’re actually ensuring you enjoy it when they introduce new rewards tied to that content. Isnt that a solution to the problem you’re having in a way?

“In a way”, definitely. It’s more akin to chopping off the arm to stop the infection, though, and I’d rather see systems and mechanics in place to make replaying them more fun (that isn’t just loot).

I know it doesnt work for others but right now this is the only themepark MMO that has it, plenty of other mmos literally 1000s of them have the classic approach of permanent content. Why would you want to change the only unique thing.

Change, just for the sake of change, is not necessarily a good thing. Bear this in mind.

More to the point, I’m encouraging change because I think they could still have an emphasis on permanent content while still creating a unique “living world”. And there’s more that’s “unique” in GW2 than just the ‘Living World’.

Perhaps but time and again Arenanet have proven that they’re not beyond loosing potential income just to have a better game.

I know, I’m not arguing against that. I’m merely saying how they could be making money off of ascended gear.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

This topic is still going? The answer is simple:

ANet considers fun, what makes the most people spend money on their online shop.

This includes players logging in, playing hours and all the stuff, but only the result of feedback from real money transactions will be relfecting, if players want to play this game.

So ANet considers an implementation to be fun or not in the amount of money they earnt with it.

They are a business after all. The ca$h $hop is their top priority, because if people aren’t buying the virtual-not-needed-to-play-the-game items. they’ll be going the way of Warhammer and City of Heroes.

Teege.4623:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

This topic is still going? The answer is simple:

ANet considers fun, what makes the most people spend money on their online shop.

This includes players logging in, playing hours and all the stuff, but only the result of feedback from real money transactions will be relfecting, if players want to play this game.

So ANet considers an implementation to be fun or not in the amount of money they earnt with it.

They are a business after all. The ca$h $hop is their top priority, because if people aren’t buying the virtual-not-needed-to-play-the-game items. they’ll be going the way of Warhammer and City of Heroes.

True, and there was no judgement in my post. They have to measure fun that way as a business.

darkace.8925:

“wash/repeat item-collection or kill-mob quests or dailies with flavor text support, the best stat gear requiring crazy amounts of time to earn.”_ Between the Living Story and the time-gating of things like ascended weapons, we’re pretty much exactly where we would have been with a subscription fee.

Exactly, but MINUS the epic, competitive PvE multiplayer content offered by games with subscription fees, i.e. raids. Instead, we have soloable-on-the-first-try (90% of the time) fluff “content” that is nothing more than a tedious to-do list so you can get that limited time only reward.

You see, one thing I’ve noticed over and over again is that people who have never played a game like WoW draw a lot of conclusions about what raiding really is, and completely miss the mark again and again. Usually people say “one raid per six months, or content every two weeks… I rest my case” or something to that effect. The problem is that they assume the quality of the content is equal. It’s not. GW2 living story content is some of the worst quality, mundane, boring, grindy, bug-riddled content I’ve ever seen in an MMO. Raiding content done right trumps any other type of gaming I’ve ever played.

ozma.3498:

darkace.8925:

“wash/repeat item-collection or kill-mob quests or dailies with flavor text support, the best stat gear requiring crazy amounts of time to earn.”_ Between the Living Story and the time-gating of things like ascended weapons, we’re pretty much exactly where we would have been with a subscription fee.

Exactly, but MINUS the epic, competitive PvE multiplayer content offered by games with subscription fees, i.e. raids. Instead, we have soloable-on-the-first-try (90% of the time) fluff “content” that is nothing more than a tedious to-do list so you can get that limited time only reward.

You see, one thing I’ve noticed over and over again is that people who have never played a game like WoW draw a lot of conclusions about what raiding really is, and completely miss the mark again and again. Usually people say “one raid per six months, or content every two weeks… I rest my case” or something to that effect. The problem is that they assume the quality of the content is equal. It’s not. GW2 living story content is some of the worst quality, mundane, boring, grindy, bug-riddled content I’ve ever seen in an MMO. Raiding content done right trumps any other type of gaming I’ve ever played.

Exactly this. Many people who mock WoW on these forums, have either never played, or played like 6 years ago when it was much worse than it is today. Frankly, I’d rather pay a sub and get guaranteed quality content that will last me for several months AND that I could fully experience on a lower difficulty level if I can’t find a group to complete it at my preferred difficulty level.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

ozma.3498:

darkace.8925:

“wash/repeat item-collection or kill-mob quests or dailies with flavor text support, the best stat gear requiring crazy amounts of time to earn.”_ Between the Living Story and the time-gating of things like ascended weapons, we’re pretty much exactly where we would have been with a subscription fee.

Exactly, but MINUS the epic, competitive PvE multiplayer content offered by games with subscription fees, i.e. raids. Instead, we have soloable-on-the-first-try (90% of the time) fluff “content” that is nothing more than a tedious to-do list so you can get that limited time only reward.

You see, one thing I’ve noticed over and over again is that people who have never played a game like WoW draw a lot of conclusions about what raiding really is, and completely miss the mark again and again. Usually people say “one raid per six months, or content every two weeks… I rest my case” or something to that effect. The problem is that they assume the quality of the content is equal. It’s not. GW2 living story content is some of the worst quality, mundane, boring, grindy, bug-riddled content I’ve ever seen in an MMO. Raiding content done right trumps any other type of gaming I’ve ever played.

Exactly this. Many people who mock WoW on these forums, have either never played, or played like 6 years ago when it was much worse than it is today. Frankly, I’d rather pay a sub and get guaranteed quality content that will last me for several months AND that I could fully experience on a lower difficulty level if I can’t find a group to complete it at my preferred difficulty level.

Indeed, I’d pay $50 if they offer a COMPLETE expansion: with new maps, new races, especially new classes, new WvW options, a fix for blobbing, a fix for farming, no grindy achievements, no lagg, a good personal story, less boring dynamic events (cause they’re just a way of conceiling farm x, defend y, and not with a lot of variety or challenge in it).

Dark Catalyst.1028:

ozma.3498:

darkace.8925:

“wash/repeat item-collection or kill-mob quests or dailies with flavor text support, the best stat gear requiring crazy amounts of time to earn.”_ Between the Living Story and the time-gating of things like ascended weapons, we’re pretty much exactly where we would have been with a subscription fee.

Exactly, but MINUS the epic, competitive PvE multiplayer content offered by games with subscription fees, i.e. raids. Instead, we have soloable-on-the-first-try (90% of the time) fluff “content” that is nothing more than a tedious to-do list so you can get that limited time only reward.

You see, one thing I’ve noticed over and over again is that people who have never played a game like WoW draw a lot of conclusions about what raiding really is, and completely miss the mark again and again. Usually people say “one raid per six months, or content every two weeks… I rest my case” or something to that effect. The problem is that they assume the quality of the content is equal. It’s not. GW2 living story content is some of the worst quality, mundane, boring, grindy, bug-riddled content I’ve ever seen in an MMO. Raiding content done right trumps any other type of gaming I’ve ever played.

Exactly this. Many people who mock WoW on these forums, have either never played, or played like 6 years ago when it was much worse than it is today. Frankly, I’d rather pay a sub and get guaranteed quality content that will last me for several months AND that I could fully experience on a lower difficulty level if I can’t find a group to complete it at my preferred difficulty level.

Each to their own, I guess. I still feel that WoW was ripping me off with a plethora of fun-less slow-downs meant to keep me subbed longer. Raids (while time-gated) were at least fun while being learned, but once on farm became boring, which led (at least in my experience) to guild drama. I found GW1 elite instances (compared to raids) to provide more fun for more repetitions with a lot less time spent herding cats.

GW2 has not provided any content that offers the same depth, longevity and repetition with the possible exception of FotM. Situating most of endgame in the open world has led to either tedious slogs (if your numbers are at the low end of a scale up), or bore fests (if players over-number the content by a lot), all leavened with a taste of particle blur. Both raids and GW elite instances took time to complete. In GW2, the biggest time commitment seems to be arriving in a spawning window and waiting around.

Exactly this.

World of Warcraft’s “expansions” don’t offer any more particular content, and the stuff they do offer is just as time-gated as anything in GW2… because it is impossible to generate enough content to keep up with the content locusts.

In WoW as late as Cataclysm, you had people at max level within 48 hours of release. They had slammed through the initial raids within the first two weeks. Without time-gating that endgame content, it would be ripped through in a month and those players would be whining about having nothing to do and that they’re bored.

Subscription models don’t promise more or better content, nor does it offer less time-gating or content management. If anything, it’s MORE time-gated in order to keep you paying that subscription every month.

How Anet actually measures funniness of content Will this keep players busy for another two week? Yes – it is fun No – well lets add more zerg trains possibilities and BLC stuff

Badgering posters about how they FEEL about the game only serves to reinforce those original feelings…it does NOT change them. Just a casual read of the previous several pages highlights this…..most of the “to-and-froing” was only personal opinion…..NO ONE’s opinion is right or wrong….it is a product of their experiences and values…..these cannot be overcome by howling them down…..winning a “debate” on these forums does not change opinions.

These forums are for players to express their likes and dislikes in the game and posters should be allowed to freely express those feelings. This is almost the ONLY way ANet can get real feedback…….if they and/or the cheersquad keep trying to suppress contrary opinions they might as well close the forums to public posting.

Oldbugga.7029:

Badgering posters about how they FEEL about the game only serves to reinforce those original feelings…it does NOT change them. Just a casual read of the previous several pages highlights this…..most of the “to-and-froing” was only personal opinion…..NO ONE’s opinion is right or wrong….it is a product of their experiences and values…..these cannot be overcome by howling them down…..winning a “debate” on these forums does not change opinions.

These forums are for players to express their likes and dislikes in the game and posters should be allowed to freely express those feelings. This is almost the ONLY way ANet can get real feedback…….if they and/or the cheersquad keep trying to suppress contrary opinions they might as well close the forums to public posting.

But what if the majority of players are satisfied, and only a small percentage of very vocal people are represented here? Will that give Anet the information they need to move the game forward? Are the cheerleading squad, as you put it, really representing a minority?

I don’t know myself. I just think it’s odd that you talk about people being able to freely express an opinion, but you’re somehow trying to devalue the opinion of people who freely express an opinion that happens not to be the opinion of people who don’t like something.

I think everyone should be able to express their opinions, even people who like the game as it is.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

ozma.3498:

darkace.8925:

“wash/repeat item-collection or kill-mob quests or dailies with flavor text support, the best stat gear requiring crazy amounts of time to earn.”_ Between the Living Story and the time-gating of things like ascended weapons, we’re pretty much exactly where we would have been with a subscription fee.

Exactly, but MINUS the epic, competitive PvE multiplayer content offered by games with subscription fees, i.e. raids. Instead, we have soloable-on-the-first-try (90% of the time) fluff “content” that is nothing more than a tedious to-do list so you can get that limited time only reward.

You see, one thing I’ve noticed over and over again is that people who have never played a game like WoW draw a lot of conclusions about what raiding really is, and completely miss the mark again and again. Usually people say “one raid per six months, or content every two weeks… I rest my case” or something to that effect. The problem is that they assume the quality of the content is equal. It’s not. GW2 living story content is some of the worst quality, mundane, boring, grindy, bug-riddled content I’ve ever seen in an MMO. Raiding content done right trumps any other type of gaming I’ve ever played.

Exactly this. Many people who mock WoW on these forums, have either never played, or played like 6 years ago when it was much worse than it is today. Frankly, I’d rather pay a sub and get guaranteed quality content that will last me for several months AND that I could fully experience on a lower difficulty level if I can’t find a group to complete it at my preferred difficulty level.

Each to their own, I guess. I still feel that WoW was ripping me off with a plethora of fun-less slow-downs meant to keep me subbed longer. Raids (while time-gated) were at least fun while being learned, but once on farm became boring, which led (at least in my experience) to guild drama. I found GW1 elite instances (compared to raids) to provide more fun for more repetitions with a lot less time spent herding cats.

GW2 has not provided any content that offers the same depth, longevity and repetition with the possible exception of FotM. Situating most of endgame in the open world has led to either tedious slogs (if your numbers are at the low end of a scale up), or bore fests (if players over-number the content by a lot), all leavened with a taste of particle blur. Both raids and GW elite instances took time to complete. In GW2, the biggest time commitment seems to be arriving in a spawning window and waiting around.

Different stuff for different tastes. I really like the easy open world bosses, not the huge zergs on a tiny boss, but stuff like Jormag or Golem II, simply because its fun for me to just take down something massive with an army of players.

There are ‘hard’ content in the game which you need to learn as well, and more are coming out. Have you tried the new Aetherpath? No waiting around and it certainly took me a few hours to learn, and a good few more runs to perfect the tactics.

Nage.1520:

Oldbugga.7029:

Badgering posters about how they FEEL about the game only serves to reinforce those original feelings…it does NOT change them. Just a casual read of the previous several pages highlights this…..most of the “to-and-froing” was only personal opinion…..NO ONE’s opinion is right or wrong….it is a product of their experiences and values…..these cannot be overcome by howling them down…..winning a “debate” on these forums does not change opinions.

These forums are for players to express their likes and dislikes in the game and posters should be allowed to freely express those feelings. This is almost the ONLY way ANet can get real feedback…….if they and/or the cheersquad keep trying to suppress contrary opinions they might as well close the forums to public posting.

But what if the majority of players are satisfied, and only a small percentage of very vocal people are represented here? Will that give Anet the information they need to move the game forward? Are the cheerleading squad, as you put it, really representing a minority?

I don’t know myself. I just think it’s odd that you talk about people being able to freely express an opinion, but you’re somehow trying to devalue the opinion of people who freely express an opinion that happens not to be the opinion of people who don’t like something.

I think everyone should be able to express their opinions, even people who like the game as it is.

I think it’s more 50%-50%. But that means the game isn’t organized as it should be, since maybe half (or less or more) don’t like all sorts of content that Anet stresses.

Sociability makes everything fun, but as long as there is very little communication between players in the game, everything turns out boring.
Not many years ago the usage of VoIP programs was very little so people chatted through the game chat window, becoming friends while exchanging ideas but nowadays less and less people are concern of what is written in the chat window. They only talk with their guild mates or friends through the VoIP and new players, if they come in the game alone, they feel alone if they are not willing to use these programs when joining a guild.

chemiclord.3978:

In WoW as late as Cataclysm, you had people at max level within 48 hours of release. They had slammed through the initial raids within the first two weeks. Without time-gating that endgame content, it would be ripped through in a month and those players would be whining about having nothing to do and that they’re bored.

Actually it took the top guild in the world at the time (Paragon) six weeks of extremely hardcore playing from Cataclysm’s launch to them finishing every boss on hard mode. And really, hard mode is the golden standard of raiding in WoW. It took regular guilds much longer (and always does). The #100 in the world guild took an additional two months, for example – and that’s still the top 0.001% (literally) of players we’re talking about.

haviz.1340:

Galen Grey.4709:

Thing is if you dont like JP, World bosses, Temples, Dungeons, Fractals, WvW, Guild missions, Mini Dungeons etc.. what exactly is these people would be playing exactly?

Where did I say anything about dungeons, fractals, wvw and mini dungeons?

You said “Time is usually in denominator. Instead of doing hundreds of jp to get empyreal fragments or guild missions to get dragonite ore one could play something else. Something that one enjoys.” That implies you dont enjoy any activity that gets you empyreal fragements and dragonite ore which in turn means you dont enjoy, minidungeons, dungeons and fractals since they give out empyreal fragements. WvW as it is a source of dragonite ore.

haviz.1340:

Galen Grey.4709:

People put way too much emphases on stats. You dont switch weapon just because its cool to switch weapons. You switch weapons because you need to perform an action the other weapon provides so yeah it would still make sense to switch weapon even if that weapon is slightly less effective then other one to deal damage. chances are its less effective to deal damage anyway since not all weapons of the same class are designed for damage.

Where did I emphasise stats?

here “One weapon is trivial. I guess casuals who like to swing a greatsword never swap their weapons but imagine some people do. You don’t want to lose 10 ar just because you had to swap your weapons.”
Now granted Agony resistance is probably the most valid reason for the argument but still if you need to swap weapon chances are the need justifies loosing 10 AR temporarily.

haviz.1340:

Galen Grey.4709:

Because without an ascended weapon you cannot get further then level 1 right. People get to level 20 with no agony resistance what so ever but suddenly without the weapon even level 2 becomes an issue.

You cannot survive maw with 0 ar at scale 20+. And try scale 80.

Getting ascended rings in fractals is pretty easy. technically at scale 20 you can get a ring every 10 runs using pristine relics not counting potential drops.Thats assuming you got less then 25 laurels & 250 badges, less then 35 laures or less then 12 guild commendations & 5 gold.

Smith.1826:

I’m saying they didn’t want people running a Monk/Warrior build on a Warrior/Monk, and vice versa. In regards to increasing versatility,..

Whats different in Gw2 from that really?
If you want a necro/monk build now you just dont select skills from 2 different classes rather choose a build that includes Dots and support just like you would do when building your necro/monk hybrid build and play it thats all. The spirit of it didnt change on the way its implemented.

Smith.1826:

Don’t think I said that. It’s just not as prevalent as it is in other games. It reminds me more of the ‘teamwork’ as seen in Left 4 Dead,…

if it isnt prevailant its because players ignore that aspect not because the game doesnt provide it. Gw2 (and perhaps thats a weakness) tries to be very accessable. If you’re a casual player who doesnt want complex mechanics you can ignore those mechanics and play your way. If you want that complexity however its there. Problem seems some players refuse to see it unless forced in it. I honestly dont understand this part. If you’re a player who wants complexity why would you ignore it just because you can play in a simplistic way that you actually despise? (You meant in general not specifically you) Playing effectively has its indirect rewards too… quicker fights, less deaths hence you fit more content in a time period which means you get more rewards in general.

Smith.1826:

I also said that sans PvP, I enjoyed most everything else. I’ve had a great time. DE’s, while fun, can be a bit samey, but I still enjoyed the ones I ran into. I’d like to think I’ve ran into most of them.

The game just fails to create any longevity for me. …

Difficulty I understand and I 100% agree. But what else? cause one of the things that kills longevity for me is repetition. Its actually the top reason and I imagine its not just me. Here go repeat this dungeon/raid x amount of times to gear up for this other dungeon. Here go repeat this couple of quests a x times to level up and get new quests to do . Here go repeat these few quests x amount of times until you unlock the next area. Here go repeat these few quests x amounts of times to get enough reputation to acquire the gear needed to do this raid etc.. Gw2 fixed that beautifully. We got a huge game some when you finished doing anything why not choose whatever you desire to repeat instead of a handful of tasks. And if that wasnt enough variety right there here is something new to do every 2 weeks. If only they had a good housing I’d be set with just this one MMO.

Smith.1826:

I’m merely saying how being “in love” or really caring about a game can make you gloss over what could be considered flaws,..

Yes and No. Being “in love” means a game provides much of what you’re looking for in a way you enjoy. There will be a reason for that “love”, its not like any of us are paid to like Gw2 or are trying to convince ourselves that this is the game for us because there are no other options. If you like most of what a game offers you’re going to be okey with some of its flaws or even missing stuff thats kinda natural. No game is perfect and we know that. Gw2 isnt perfect, its not challenging for the most part and it has no housing and player generated content would be nice. Both of those things I want in my MMO but because I enjoy the game as is I am willing to wait. As long as the game remains fresh and those 2 week releases certainly help I can wait even a long time if needs be. There also another important thing. You have to release an MMO is a community game, IE stuff will be designed for different kinds of players. I dont like to work hard to get gear so I am not okey with ascended gear at all but at the same time this here is a game that allows me to have gear thats not BiS without limiting me like most other MMOs do. So instead of hating the game for it, I am grateful they went in a direction different then other MMOs by making it truly optional.

Smith.1826:

“In a way”, definitely. It’s more akin to chopping off the arm to stop the infection, though, and I’d rather see systems and mechanics in place to make replaying them more fun ..

like what? every system and mechanic will become stale repeated enough times imho.

Smith.1826:

I know, I’m not arguing against that. I’m merely saying how they could be making money off of ascended gear.

If they really intended ascended gear to be a source of gem>gold conversion income why on earth would they make stuff account bound. Imagine if instead of 500 dragonite they required 500 ecto or 500 passion flower etc. The only thing that requires money is getting your profession to 500. Designing the weapon that way gives you an infinite requirement. Seems like a bad way to do this if that was really their intention.

Galen Grey.4709:

You said “Time is usually in denominator. Instead of doing hundreds of jp to get empyreal fragments or guild missions to get dragonite ore one could play something else. Something that one enjoys.” That implies you dont enjoy any activity that gets you empyreal fragements and dragonite ore which in turn means you dont enjoy, minidungeons, dungeons and fractals since they give out empyreal fragements. WvW as it is a source of dragonite ore.

That does not imply that at all. In fact, it is the opposite. I probably did more arah and fractal runs than this whole General Discussion board combined.

here “One weapon is trivial. I guess casuals who like to swing a greatsword never swap their weapons but imagine some people do. You don’t want to lose 10 ar just because you had to swap your weapons.”
Now granted Agony resistance is probably the most valid reason for the argument but still if you need to swap weapon chances are the need justifies loosing 10 AR temporarily.

You have two weapon sets. Let’s say it is a typical guardian with a greatsword and a sword/focus. You have an ascended greatsword and an exotic sword and a focus. You got hit by an agony inflicting attack at scale 48 and you are on your sword/focus set while having weapon swap cooldown of 7s. The difference is between life and death.

Getting ascended rings in fractals is pretty easy. technically at scale 20 you can get a ring every 10 runs using pristine relics not counting potential drops.Thats assuming you got less then 25 laurels & 250 badges, less then 35 laures or less then 12 guild commendations & 5 gold.

Why do you even argue with me about scale 20 when I am mentioning scale 48+ which you most likely have not done ever. I meant weapons with ar, not trinkets. Once anet unlocks even scales 50+ with proper agony you will need more ar to survive jade maw. And it might happen very soon with three new fractal.

haviz.1340:

Galen Grey.4709:

You said “Time is usually in denominator. Instead of doing hundreds of jp to get empyreal fragments or guild missions to get dragonite ore one could play something else. Something that one enjoys.” That implies you dont enjoy any activity that gets you empyreal fragements and dragonite ore which in turn means you dont enjoy, minidungeons, dungeons and fractals since they give out empyreal fragements. WvW as it is a source of dragonite ore.

That does not imply that at all. In fact, it is the opposite. I probably did more arah and fractal runs than this whole General Discussion board combined.

Then why would you feel its a problem? you’re getting the reward playing the content you enjoy playing so where is the problem?

haviz.1340:

Galen Grey.4709:

here “One weapon is trivial. I guess casuals who like to swing a greatsword never swap their weapons but imagine some people do. You don’t want to lose 10 ar just because you had to swap your weapons.”
Now granted Agony resistance is probably the most valid reason for the argument but still if you need to swap weapon chances are the need justifies loosing 10 AR temporarily.

You have two weapon sets. Let’s say it is a typical guardian with a greatsword and a sword/focus. You have an ascended greatsword and an exotic sword and a focus. You got hit by an agony inflicting attack at scale 48 and you are on your sword/focus set while having weapon swap cooldown of 7s. The difference is between life and death.

Its scale 48, it should be. Its also scale 48 and the likely hood of getting an ascended drop is quite high.
I dont venture in high level fractals myself but a guild mate who’s in fractals alot already got 3 ascended weapon drops. Now granted they might not be the stats you need but while you craft one as you wish they might be a good subsitiute in the situation you mention. How about you did you get any ascended weapon drops at those levels?

haviz.1340:

Galen Grey.4709:

Getting ascended rings in fractals is pretty easy. technically at scale 20 you can get a ring every 10 runs using pristine relics not counting potential drops.Thats assuming you got less then 25 laurels & 250 badges, less then 35 laures or less then 12 guild commendations & 5 gold.

Why do you even argue with me about scale 20 when I am mentioning scale 48+ which you most likely have not done ever. I meant weapons with ar, not trinkets. Once anet unlocks even scales 50+ with proper agony you will need more ar to survive jade maw. And it might happen very soon with three new fractal.

you mentioned level 48+ now. before now you were arguing how players are locked into low fractal levels because of ascended gear. Fractal is a vertical progression game, the whole point of it is to gear up and be able to take harder challenges. Arguing that ascended weapons are gating you from higher levels is kinda superfluous because thats precisely the point.

Galen Grey.4709:

Then why would you feel its a problem? you’re getting the reward playing the content you enjoy playing so where is the problem?

What can I do with them without stacks of dragonite ore? Hint: delete them.

Its scale 48, it should be. Its also scale 48 and the likely hood of getting an ascended drop is quite high.
I dont venture in high level fractals myself but a guild mate who’s in fractals alot already got 3 ascended weapon drops. Now granted they might not be the stats you need but while you craft one as you wish they might be a good subsitiute in the situation you mention. How about you did you get any ascended weapon drops at those levels?

Nope, never got a single drop. A friend got cleric’s ascended, great replacement of exotic berserker’s.

you mentioned level 48+ now. before now you were arguing how players are locked into low fractal levels because of ascended gear. Fractal is a vertical progression game, the whole point of it is to gear up and be able to take harder challenges. Arguing that ascended weapons are gating you from higher levels is kinda superfluous because thats precisely the point.

It was the whole point when you could have got every piece of ascended in fractals. So you are completely missing the point and arguing just for the sake of defending idiotic decision of making ascended weapons crafted through participation in “various” activities. Activities that promote afk gameplay I must add. Ascension indeed, is a troublesome process.

haviz.1340:

Galen Grey.4709:

Then why would you feel its a problem? you’re getting the reward playing the content you enjoy playing so where is the problem?

What can I do with them without stacks of dragonite ore? Hint: delete them.

How about keeping it until you get the dragonite ore.

Are you telling me you never EVER do a world boss? or play some WvW ? or do some Guild missions? you can even get some by AFKing an invasion now and then!

haviz.1340:

Galen Grey.4709:

Its scale 48, it should be. Its also scale 48 and the likely hood of getting an ascended drop is quite high.
I dont venture in high level fractals myself but a guild mate who’s in fractals alot already got 3 ascended weapon drops. Now granted they might not be the stats you need but while you craft one as you wish they might be a good subsitiute in the situation you mention. How about you did you get any ascended weapon drops at those levels?

Nope, never got a single drop. A friend got cleric’s ascended, great replacement of exotic berserker’s.

Nope definitely not a good replacement but at least he can equip the AR while he works towards a proper ascended weapon / he gets a good drop!

haviz.1340:

Galen Grey.4709:

you mentioned level 48+ now. before now you were arguing how players are locked into low fractal levels because of ascended gear. Fractal is a vertical progression game, the whole point of it is to gear up and be able to take harder challenges. Arguing that ascended weapons are gating you from higher levels is kinda superfluous because thats precisely the point.

It was the whole point when you could have got every piece of ascended in fractals. So you are completely missing the point and arguing just for the sake of defending idiotic decision of making ascended weapons crafted through participation in “various” activities. Activities that promote afk gameplay I must add. Ascension indeed, is a troublesome process.

Blame people who said Laurels was a bad way to get ascended gear because it didnt involve any meaningful tasks and it didnt feel you earned your ascended gear. They only gave us what us the players used for.

Galen Grey.4709:

How about keeping it until you get the dragonite ore.

Are you telling me you never EVER do a world boss? or play some WvW ? or do some Guild missions? you can even get some by AFKing an invasion now and then!

I have 67 empyreal stars (that’s for 13 ascended weapons), 95 bloodstone dust (that’s for 19 ascended weapons) and 3 dragonite ingot. Recently I started to do temple bosses on empty servers like Vabbi with 1-2 friends but it’s still way too slow. At least it’t not braindead without a zerg and actually faster! Tells a lot about a quality of our dear players.

Blame people who said Laurels was a bad way to get ascended gear because it didnt involve any meaningful tasks and it didnt feel you earned your ascended gear. They only gave us what us the players used for.

Laurels are also bad. Time-gating is never an answer. There should be multitude of options by which you can acquire ascended gear, not multitude of activities you need to do.

haviz.1340:

Galen Grey.4709:

How about keeping it until you get the dragonite ore.

Are you telling me you never EVER do a world boss? or play some WvW ? or do some Guild missions? you can even get some by AFKing an invasion now and then!

I have 67 empyreal stars (that’s for 13 ascended weapons), 95 bloodstone dust (that’s for 19 ascended weapons) and 3 dragonite ingot. Recently I started to do temple bosses on empty servers like Vabbi with 1-2 friends but it’s still way too slow. At least it’t not braindead without a zerg and actually faster! Tells a lot about a quality of our dear players.

Blame people who said Laurels was a bad way to get ascended gear because it didnt involve any meaningful tasks and it didnt feel you earned your ascended gear. They only gave us what us the players used for.

Laurels are also bad. Time-gating is never an answer. There should be multitude of options by which you can acquire ascended gear, not multitude of activities you need to do.

speed depends a lot how large the zerg is, its not necessarily an issue of player skill. A group of 5 people is pretty fast because a group even will not scale up. 3 will be a bit slower cause you’re under numbered probably. But when you get to the 10-25 range the event will slow down cause the event scales up a lot to deal with the extra players. It will start to speed up again the more people you end up over 25 since the event stops scaling up at 25.

Time gating is the answer actually. What they did with the dailies was simply genius but people have trouble understanding that a reward thats intended to take a month to achieve has to take a month to achieve. The question is what do you end up doing during that month. With the dailies you do absolutely anything you want to do and you dont have to grind because 1 hr or 10 hrs you still are going to do a day progress in any single day so there is no problem with keeping the requirements light which they do. Without dailies on the other hand you’ll end up grinding because a day now has to mean a day of work and not a mere 30 mins like it is with dailies. So in a sense they’re forced to spread it around else it would be nightmare. Imagine what 30 days worth of fractals would mean. How many fractal relics they’d need to ask for. Or 30 days of dungeons how many tokens they’d need to ask. Or 30 days of gathering how many t6 materials they’d need to ask for. By spreading it around they make it more managable. 5 days worth of world bosses, 5 days of events, 5 days of dungeons, 5 days of fractals etc…. Daily was a great system but people thought if they could convince arenanet to get ridt of it they’ll be able to get ascended gear quickly since there would be no time gate to stop them. Well this is the result.

Galen Grey.4709:

Whats different in Gw2 from that really?

A whole, whole lot. That discussion alone could warrant a whole thread.

if it isnt prevailant its because players ignore that aspect not because the game doesnt provide it

“Providing it” is not the same as “encouraging it”. As is, all these different builds and different stat combos seem to boil down into “training wheels”, mattering less and less the better a player you are (condition damage is a whole other mess, but theres a thread for that).

Being accessible is far from bad, it’s an area GW1 needed help with. But they didn’t expand much past that.

Difficulty I understand and I 100% agree. But what else? cause one of the things that kills longevity for me is repetition.

I agree. And in GW2 there’s little for me to do that isn’t repeating things. Much of this Halloween update is just repeating things. And if I want to start getting all the mats and gold to level my weaponsmithing from 12 to 500, I’ll be having to repeat a lot of things. I havent even touched armorsmithing, what will I be expected to do for ascended armor?

Yes and no.

“Yes” if you’re a person who loves a “thing” and doesn’t notice its flaws. “No” if you do love “thing” and notice the flaws. This is pretty basic and self-evident, and all I was saying.

like what?

Like lots of things: Improved AI, increasing difficulty, more randomization/variety to encounters, more customizability and horizontal progression – just some examples.

Yes, everything gets stale after awhile. These mechanics can prevent it from happening much sooner. I would’ve been done with Dark Souls after about twenty hours if not for the difficulty and huge variety of customization, on top of a gorgeous game.

Smith.1826:

If they really intended ascended gear to be a source of gem>gold conversion…

Show me where I said that. “I’m merely saying how they could be making money off of ascended gear”. Some money? A lot of money? We don’t know, but I’d absolutely lean towards at least “some money”.

Galen Grey.4709:

speed depends a lot how large the zerg is, its not necessarily an issue of player skill. A group of 5 people is pretty fast because a group even will not scale up. 3 will be a bit slower cause you’re under numbered probably. But when you get to the 10-25 range the event will slow down cause the event scales up a lot to deal with the extra players. It will start to speed up again the more people you end up over 25 since the event stops scaling up at 25.

Speed does not depend on the size of the zerg. Otherwise, how group of 7 people can kill risen priest of baltahzar in 42s while zerg of 100 people needs more than 5 minutes? Either some events scale up to 100 people [¹] or 7 people are dealing about 22 more damage. Zerg is slower because:

• zerglings are bad
• zerglings mostly autoattack
• zerglings use ranged weapons
• zerglings wear cleric’s gear
• zerglings do not understand mechanics (i.e. lyssa)
• zerglings die constantly

Time gating is the answer actually. What they did with the dailies was simply genius but people have trouble understanding that a reward thats intended to take a month to achieve has to take a month to achieve. The question is what do you end up doing during that month. With the dailies you do absolutely anything you want to do and you dont have to grind because 1 hr or 10 hrs you still are going to do a day progress in any single day so there is no problem with keeping the requirements light which they do. Without dailies on the other hand you’ll end up grinding because a day now has to mean a day of work and not a mere 30 mins like it is with dailies. So in a sense they’re forced to spread it around else it would be nightmare. Imagine what 30 days worth of fractals would mean. How many fractal relics they’d need to ask for. Or 30 days of dungeons how many tokens they’d need to ask. Or 30 days of gathering how many t6 materials they’d need to ask for. By spreading it around they make it more managable. 5 days worth of world bosses, 5 days of events, 5 days of dungeons, 5 days of fractals etc…. Daily was a great system but people thought if they could convince arenanet to get ridt of it they’ll be able to get ascended gear quickly since there would be no time gate to stop them. Well this is the result.

It is not about getting laurels or being forced to do afk events. Someone who did not play for a week cannot catch up. Someone who just bought gw2 cannot catch up. If you think dailies idea was genius I lost all hope.

¹ “Most events scale for up to 10 players. Group events and and large scale events such as the finale for meta events will scale much higher. For example, The Shatterer scales up to 100 players.” Source: arenanet blog.

Smith.1826:

Galen Grey.4709:

Whats different in Gw2 from that really?

A whole, whole lot. That discussion alone could warrant a whole thread.

I disagree, its the same concept implemented in a different way.

Smith.1826:

Galen Grey.4709:

if it isnt prevailant its because players ignore that aspect not because the game doesnt provide it

“Providing it” is not the same as “encouraging it”. As is, all these different builds and different stat combos seem to boil down into “training wheels”, mattering less and less the better a player you are (condition damage is a whole other mess, but theres a thread for that).

Being accessible is far from bad, it’s an area GW1 needed help with. But they didn’t expand much past that.

I am sorry but I think this is absurd. Why do you need to be encourage to do the things you want to do ? You’re being given the tools, its up to you what you do with them. Since when being left free to do anything you wish with those tools is a bad thing?

It doesnt make sense to me. You’re saying you want complexity but with take simplicity instead if you’re given the choice.

Smith.1826:

Galen Grey.4709:

Difficulty I understand and I 100% agree. But what else? cause one of the things that kills longevity for me is repetition.

I agree. And in GW2 there’s little for me to do that isn’t repeating things. Much of this Halloween update is just repeating things. And if I want to start getting all the mats and gold to level my weaponsmithing from 12 to 500, I’ll be having to repeat a lot of things. I havent even touched armorsmithing, what will I be expected to do for ascended armor?

So far sure. Apart from the blood prince instance we got what we had last halloween… so far. There is still more the halloween that we didnt get yet. For all we know the tower of nightmares might be part of that halloween too. For sure there is more to halloween that we’ve seen so far considering we know there will be the mad king says mini game that isnt there yet thanks to an achievement related to it.

Smith.1826:

Galen Grey.4709:

Yes and no.

“Yes” if you’re a person who loves a “thing” and doesn’t notice its flaws. “No” if you do love “thing” and notice the flaws. This is pretty basic and self-evident, and all I was saying.

No its not. Life doesnt exist in the extremes. Something isnt either perfect or completely flawed there are shades of grey. Like most of what a game has to offer doesnt mean you dont notice the flaws and thats not considering that some things you might consider flaws arent actually flaws but rather design decisions intended for a different group of players with different play styles then yours.

Smith.1826:

Galen Grey.4709:

like what?

Like lots of things: Improved AI, increasing difficulty, more randomization/variety to encounters, more customizability and horizontal progression – just some examples.

Its not as easy as there, I am sure there is a reason why the game is easy and thats to ensure that 1. gear is optional and 2. to make the game accessible. Like I said above not everything we consider a flaw is simply a flaw.

Smith.1826:

Galen Grey.4709:

If they really intended ascended gear to be a source of gem>gold conversion…

Show me where I said that. “I’m merely saying how they could be making money off of ascended gear”. Some money? A lot of money? We don’t know, but I’d absolutely lean towards at least “some money”.

Without intention that point is mut though. Take a regular p2p game say WoW and just added RMT to it and change absolutely nothing and it will start making money that way as well even though none of it was designed with the intention of making money. Whatever they do will generate money through RMT because some people like to take shortcuts.

haviz.1340:

Galen Grey.4709:

speed depends a lot how large the zerg is, its not necessarily an issue of player skill. A group of 5 people is pretty fast because a group even will not scale up. 3 will be a bit slower cause you’re under numbered probably. But when you get to the 10-25 range the event will slow down cause the event scales up a lot to deal with the extra players. It will start to speed up again the more people you end up over 25 since the event stops scaling up at 25.

Speed does not depend on the size of the zerg. Otherwise, how group of 7 people can kill risen priest of baltahzar in 42s while zerg of 100 people needs more than 5 minutes? Either some events scale up to 100 people [¹] or 7 people are dealing about 22 more damage. Zerg is slower because:

• zerglings are bad
• zerglings mostly autoattack
• zerglings use ranged weapons
• zerglings wear cleric’s gear
• zerglings do not understand mechanics (i.e. lyssa)
• zerglings die constantly

Time gating is the answer actually. What they did with the dailies was simply genius but people have trouble understanding that a reward thats intended to take a month to achieve has to take a month to achieve. The question is what do you end up doing during that month. With the dailies you do absolutely anything you want to do and you dont have to grind because 1 hr or 10 hrs you still are going to do a day progress in any single day so there is no problem with keeping the requirements light which they do. Without dailies on the other hand you’ll end up grinding because a day now has to mean a day of work and not a mere 30 mins like it is with dailies. So in a sense they’re forced to spread it around else it would be nightmare. Imagine what 30 days worth of fractals would mean. How many fractal relics they’d need to ask for. Or 30 days of dungeons how many tokens they’d need to ask. Or 30 days of gathering how many t6 materials they’d need to ask for. By spreading it around they make it more managable. 5 days worth of world bosses, 5 days of events, 5 days of dungeons, 5 days of fractals etc…. Daily was a great system but people thought if they could convince arenanet to get ridt of it they’ll be able to get ascended gear quickly since there would be no time gate to stop them. Well this is the result.

It is not about getting laurels or being forced to do afk events. Someone who did not play for a week cannot catch up. Someone who just bought gw2 cannot catch up. If you think dailies idea was genius I lost all hope.

¹ “Most events scale for up to 10 players. Group events and and large scale events such as the finale for meta events will scale much higher. For example, The Shatterer scales up to 100 players.” Source: arenanet blog.

some events do scale to 100 people actually es:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dynamic_event

“Most events scale for up to 10 players.⁴ Group events and and large scale events such as the finale for meta events will scale much higher. For example, The Shatterer scales up to 100 players” No idea what temples scale up to.

But yes you’re right in that in zergs a lot of people autoattack and switch off their brain not disagreeing with that. Just saying that different sizes of players also has an effect on speed due to scaling of the event.

5 people autoattacking will still be faster then 25 people autoattacking.

The catch up argument is wrong.
time gate or not there is simply no difference.

If you can farm say 300 tokens a day and you want reward to take 5 days to earn whether you ask for 5 laurels or 1500 tokens if you dont play for 2 days its going to take you 7 days whether you’re asked for 5 laurels or 1500 tokens.

Catching up is also wrong because there is nothing to catch up to.

Galen Grey.4709:

Are you telling me you never EVER do a world boss? or play some WvW ? or do some Guild missions? you can even get some by AFKing an invasion now and then!

Just for the record, only Guild Challenges give dragonite, not all Guild Missions. It’s not likely anyone is going to do enough of those to be a reliable source.

In WvW, only Castle and Keep Lords give dragonite. Depending on your server and your matchup, you could do a lot of WvW and get very little dragonite.

The reliable sources are temple events and world bosses. So if you’re after ascended weapons, look forward to watching timers and porting around to zergs.