Guild Wars 2

angelpaladin.7921:

reading thought the last few post I feel extremely bad for you guys when you grow up. Supply and demand is what the real world is built on. Precursor’s have a low supply high demand so there expensive. They wouldn’t stay expensive if people where not willing to pay there high prices. We should also not ignore the fact there used to craft the best item’s in the game.

People have this entitled attitude in this thread. I am sorry but your not entitled to a precursor nor are you entitled to a legendary. I do think crafting them should be a viable method. I also think it should be extremely hard and time consuming.

I currently have bolt and am working on The Juggernaut. I already have the precursor “The Colossus” it took me week in a half to save the 550gold up to get it. Little bit of “WORK” goes a long way.

Not sure who you are talking to but…

Actually if you earned a legendary you are therefore entitled to it.

Also supply and demand is present no matter how small or big the supply is and no matter if it is a real world economy or a video game economy, they are both ECONOMIES. Howl is 200g not because 25 may be listed, it’s because hardly anyone wants it compared to the Dusk which is 800g and may have 15 listed. What pretty much every complainer on the forums doesn’t understand is if you make precursors too common no one will want them, and therefore the “end game weapons” will be gone and ANET will lose a large portion of their hardcore base. There is a reason implementing the crafting precursors isn’t easy and has to be carefully done. Clearly they don’t want them too common, why is that?

CryxTryx.9208:

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You know if I had it my way the only thing I would change to the current Legendary system was to make precursors account bound.

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They should not be something everyone can have. Something anyone can have yes, but not everyone.

The fact that many people currently believe Legendaries should readily accessible to everyone is contrary to the very idea of a Legendary weapon. The fact that people feel entitled to a Legendary simply by being a member of the Guild Wars 2 players base is ridiculous, and if the Devs cater to it will be the very thing that ruins the Legendary weapon class altogether.

There is nothing wrong with the current Legendary system. What is wrong is the sense of entitlement you have if you feel you deserve your ‘Legend’.

…

Well said.

I think it also should be noted that the simple fact is that every precursor was brought into the game through what some people have called “dumb luck”. Every. Single. One. As intended.

ANet intentionally, or otherwise, made the option to acquire them through the TP should be seen as a boon, in that it allows those with “smart luck” or, no luck at all, to otherwise acquire them.

The fact is that through that method they are economically beyond the reach of the “average” player is, as has been said, is strictly a function of the player base itself.

Average players are not excluded from acquiring them.The average player can have one. Average players do have them. That said, not every player will have one. And that isn’t necessarily a bad thing at all.

To those who are saying the market isnt being manipulated, I am sure you are making a killing on the TP.

Osi.3504:

That’s called supply and demand boys and girls, nothing more.

Yes, the problem in this case is the supply side a.k.a. drop rate, which is set by ANet to such a ridiculously low value that the prices had no other chance than to rise to the moon. That’s basic economics at work, would take less than 2 minutes to adjust on ANet’s side and completely solve the issue.

ANet obviously doesn’t care that legendary weapons have become a “Look at me, I am awesome enough to know how to play the TP!!!” weapon, otherwise they’d do just that.

Kimyrielle.3826:

Yes, the problem in this case is the supply side a.k.a. drop rate, which is set by ANet to such a ridiculously low value that the prices had no other chance than to rise to the moon. That’s basic economics at work, would take less than 2 minutes to adjust on ANet’s side and completely solve the issue.
…

Actually, assuming the natural drop rate of all precursors are equal, and given the disparity between precursor prices, it really looks to be demand.

Would even go so far as to presume that the majority of Mystic Forge attempts are with great swords, and not harpoon guns. So, that’d also lend to a higher supply of Dusk/Dawn over Rage/Venom.

Mourningcry.9428:

I think it also should be noted that the simple fact is that every precursor was brought into the game through what some people have called “dumb luck”. Every. Single. One. As intended.

Not quite. Again, it’s math.

If you have a large enough sum of gold to start with (aka. are rich), you can buy Mystic Forge fodder (e.g. rare weapons) by the hundreds. Statistics demand that by increasing the sample size enough (=using the forge often enough), chances for an precursor to drop for you will eventually rise pretty close to 100%.

Ask our friends from the TP manipulator department, because that’s how the majority of all precursors is being created. It actually has remarkably little to do with “dumb luck” in their case.

The problem is obvious: You need to be already the GW2 equivalent of Bill Gates to participate in what’s essentially a money printing press. The more often you are using the mystic forge, the more your personal precursor drop rate will match the actual drop chance as set by ANet. In their case, the system has not much to do with “luck” anymore. Average Joe and Jane can’t participate though, for they totally lack the funds to play the Mystic Forge often enough to (largely) eliminate the luck-component from the game.

In the end it’s one of these systems that make the rich richer. Which again might explain why I call it “broken”.

Kimyrielle.3826:

Mourningcry.9428:

I think it also should be noted that the simple fact is that every precursor was brought into the game through what some people have called “dumb luck”. Every. Single. One. As intended.

Not quite. Again, it’s math.

If you have a large enough sum of gold to start with (aka. are rich), you can buy Mystic Forge fodder (e.g. rare weapons) by the hundreds. Statistics demand that by increasing the sample size enough (=using the forge often enough), chances for an precursor to drop for you will eventually rise pretty close to 100%.

…

In theory yes, but in practice, that ugly thing called economics comes into play. The cost to increase the sample size to reach inevitability quickly erradicates any profit, thus making it a losing endeavor. Uncertain cost to manfacture can simply easily exceed market price. Thus making it a losing proposition.

If it were feasible, then it could be assumed that threshold had already been reached and sellers were recursively printing gold. Which they currently can’t do reliably. If they could, we’d witness a much diffrent dynamic then we’re currently seeing.

It’s been discussed numerous times in the BLTC subforum. There are actually better markets then precursors to achieve this “infinite” cycle which have been discussed. But once they’re discovered, that margin disappears, and they too become unsustainable.

Edit: Just some napkin calcs….

~20s per rare
~80s per Forge attempt

Sell price of ~600g (not even shooting for Dusk)

Gives you 750 attempts to break even (not even profit, and ignoring fees). Which, if we’re assuming to get one hit, would be ~0.14%. Which is far greater then the presumed natural percentage, but far from a reliable rate to make the process viable.

So, “statistically” speaking, what would presume the bankroll needed to reach inevitability?

Mourningcry.9428:

In theory yes, but in practice, that ugly thing called economics comes into play. The cost to increase the sample size to reach inevitability quickly erradicates any profit, thus making it a losing endeavor. Uncertain cost to manfacture can simply easily exceed market price. Thus making it a losing proposition.

Of course these people will do it only if it’s worthwhile. It obviously is, otherwise they wouldn’t do it. And people have admitted in this very thread that they did it large scale, so why you deny what’s essentially a known fact is beyond me. Yes there might be periods of time when the average costs of fabricating a precursor in the mystic forge can be higher than the current market price (it probably was that way for a while when ANet decided to make them drop like rain in the Karkha event), but it doesn’t seem to be the case at large.

It’s been discussed numerous times in the BLTC subforum. There are actually better markets then precursors to achieve this “infinite” cycle which have been discussed. But once they’re discovered, that margin disappears, and they too become unsustainable.

Playing the TP is a very dynamic endeavor, yes. There might be windows of time when making precursors is very profitable, and then others were making Omomberry bars has a much higher margin of profit. Yes, economic theory demands that very profitable markets are getting entered by new suppliers over time, shrinking the margin of profit (right now everyone and their granny is farming Ancient Wood, bringing the prices down that two weeks ago made farming it a money printing press). This does in no way defeat my point, though. Getting a precursor dropped for you, has largely nothing to do with “dumb luck” as you claimed, it has something to do with being rich enough to eliminate the R of RNG.

@Kimyrielle.3826

Economics and Statistics aside, I’m not quite sure where you’re going with it.

On one hand you propose that the natural drop rate is so low that it drives the high prices.

On the other, you propose that there is a segment that can profitably produce precursors ad infinitum.

If the rate of the second exceeds that of the first, which one would have to assume, then this segment is now the controller of rate of supply, no?

So, any increase in the natural drop rate, which you earlier propose, would also serve to decrease the cost for the second. Argueably driving price down, but only to the point that it exceeds the equivalent cost of the natural drop before it becomes irrational.

Therefore to arrest control away from the second group, you would need to allow equilibrium to reach the point where acquiring a precursor from a drop was equivalent to buying one. Which, if you follow, would spiral down to a trivial amount. (Which I would say Rage is representative now, @~30g; i.e supply > demand).

So, in order to maintain any semblance of rarity and exclusivity, adjusting the natural drop rate at this point to anything meaningful would be nothing but detrementail to the concept of the Legendary as any rarity would be removed by doing do.

No?

@Mourningcry:

What I said isn’t contradictory at all: In both real life and this game it’s trivial to make money when you’re already rich. So, yes, the 1% of GW2 can use the system in place not only to reliable fabricate precursors for themselves but also generate a healthy amount of gold with.

But as stated multiple times in this thread, the current state of the precursor prices prevents most players from participating. Average players do not have legendary weapons in this time (unless they -really- had luck with their drops), neither they will be able to.

Yes, not everyone will have a legendary. Many players don’t want to face the huge workload required. Some don’t even want one to being with. And that’s ok. However, unless you’re already rich in this game and can effectively print money, a legendary is largely out of your reach at this point. The only way being brute-force farming huge amounts of cash (and most players can’t do that fast enough to even keep up with the price inflation, mind you that precursor prices went up by up to 500 gold from a level that already was considered prohibitive for most). Stupidly farming cash is not fun at all. Which is not what I believe a “Legendary” weapon is all about or should be.

ANet actually got the right basic idea with them – a legendary weapon is a reward for dedicated players who participate in many aspects of the game for a substantial period of time. Which is why it requires such a huge laundry list of different ingredients from different parts of the game. Gold farming is already a part of that laundry list as is, but the precursor drove that requirement over the borderline of silliness. Which is why I think the system is broken. Particularly since there is no guarantee that precursor prices will just continue going up.

Legendaries – in my opinion – shouldn’t be necessarily “exclusive”, they should be hard to get, and that’s NOT the same thing. I find “exclusive” items silly as an idea. Everyone should be able to get anything if they work hard enough for it. Legendaries will always be “rare” because not many players have the willpower to even farm for one of the gifts, let alone four. And mind you, I don’t want a legendary to be easy to get at all. But I want the process to be FUN and not a silly, uninspired “farm gold until you drop” treadmill.

Sigh, another feature delayed/postponed/pushed back/quietly excused…

In short I think what Kimyrielle is asking for is the entire legendary construction chain to be deterministic. A few aspects of it are not (clovers and precursor). The result is disparity in efforts to obtain a legendary.

Kimyrielle is also saying that the disparity favors the rich because they can easily buy their way through the non-deterministic aspects of the process.

The precursor crafting should hopefully eliminate the biggest culprit with regards to non-determinism. Of course this only assumes the crafting of the precursor itself is deterministic (i.e. no “shove this into the forge with X% chance at getting crafting material Y”).

The thing is, when game came out, there was no end game…. there still isn’t much, but ok, with all the achievements (daily, including WvW and PvP), daily chest events, living story, dungeons and fotm runs…. let’s say there is some end game… so I would say making it hard to get a precursor, even making it RNG was ok. People wasted time farming materials, crafting weapons and using them in MF, or simply stacking rares and doing same…
But now, after a year of game being here, adition of fotm and ascended kitten, with almost every1 who played from start having a legendary, some even more than one, it’+s pointless… Give us more end game, give us an expansion…. Having legendary crafting/farming/grinding as the only form of endgame is not necessary any more.

Good to hear they are continuing with their announced plans to give more ways to acquire precursors.

Kimyrielle.3826:

@Mourningcry:

…

Yes, not everyone will have a legendary. Many players don’t want to face the huge workload required. Some don’t even want one to being with. And that’s ok. However, unless you’re already rich in this game and can effectively print money, a legendary is largely out of your reach at this point.

….

It’s actually no further out of reach then it was at the very launch of the game. Argueably, within closer reach since there’s actual supply hitting the TP (regardless of attainability).

It may be considered unfortunate that wealth offers some players a quicker path to precursor acquisition,however, it doesn’t lengthen the path for anyone.

Not that it’s higly relevant to this discussion, but in my opinion, for a brand new player, the Shards are now the bottleneck. Karma, not gold, is the limited resource.

We’ll have to just wait and see how ANet ultimately chooses to handle this.

The only thing anet needs to handle is gift of exploration being the limiting factor in crafting multiple legendaries, like i don’t rly wanna do it on more than one character…. Karma is actually easier to get and while farming materials/gold you should be getting more than enough for your legendary.
People cry about mystic clovers, but they are actually a nice way of making money/materials, so even if you fail to get them, you will get loads of t6, lodestones and simply a return of part of the invested materials.
If they would only make precursors craftable…. But, by doing so they are removing a huge gold drain… Like if you can craft a precursor easily, what would make you wanna toss more rare items into a MF? They would either have to make it very time consuming, expensive or sth very destimulating, cause otherwise they are messing with sth that has actually been keeping the economy in check. On the other side not making precursor craftable is kinda stupid… RNG is a kitten, and my guildie got 4 precursors, 3 of them from MF, all of them worth more than 500-600g at a time… He got all 4 of them within a month (he was only playing for like 4 months total) and then stopped playing after crafting 2 legendaries… I got 3, 2 of them from MF, 1 as a drop, torch, dusk and hammer – tbh nice, but i am playing since game started and have been tossing every rare weapon i got into MF – and 1 of the precursors (dusk) was an invasion drop, so MF wasn’t rly good to me… And then there are like 10 of my friends who never gotten any, some of them played since game came online.

In short… scavenger hunt must come soon…. better give us a bad hunt that will destroy sth, then patch it later, than leave things as they are and make us farm for certain legendaries for a few months…. what 1 person said, farming for 2-3 months or more to get the gold, then give it to a person who tossed 4 random rares into MF and gotten lucky is kinda stupid, also destimulating and on the other note, not rly necessary in a good game… rng sucks, and there is enough of RNG in mystic clovers.

ok … Without starting a long talk about how this new news is disheartening , to say the least ….

And belonging that instead of thinking that living story can ensure that players do not leave the game you should listen to what the players themselves require : fix dungeons, precursors, skills (with a future patch not now), characters builds (but i can see something move on the way for this 15th oct )….

I understand that the basic idea of the game was to create a world in constant development, but it is not working …. want it to be because the rewards for doing the archievements of living story are not interesting ( a MiniPet for 15 archievements ? -.- )….
But instead of releasing new content every month or every 15 days, you could wait for more …. 2 months ? the contents were more elaborate … reward the most interesting … I think you would have the financial resources to work well with others issue …. For example, this issue precursor …..

That said, when there was a patch of reward according to archievements, I was hoping that they had finally reached a solution for the note … to a certain amount of archievements we give you a precursor … 1 only .. this would have made it so easy …. but this has not been done and I do not understand why ..

Having said that and understanding that maybe create a system for the craft of the Precursor is complicated and laborious , why not find an easier solution for the moment ?

Each account can receive as a gift of your choice 1 precursor ( tell me if account bound or not ) thanks to a special archievement .
To get it you have to reach certain requirements :

• Archievements at least 6000 ….
• Dungeons master title
• Have completed the map at least 1 time
• Get all 10 archievements "boss " (even tequila if you want)

Do you see people if you agree with me but I would think the only way we can see how to get this one for free Precursor a person must have :

• Played at least a few months to GW2 because archievements
• Have tried every content ( ok no fractal ) in the game .. I talk about dungeons no activity .
• Seeing the world that GW2 offers and appagari so once again all that side of the staff who worked behind .
• Archievements "boss " …. once again involves exploring the world of GW2 and then learn various aspects of the game itself.

Also I believe the only way you would have the following advantages:

• Ensure that the player does not stop to play so easily, giving to him a goal not impossible but not immediate.
• Keep active play
• Raise awareness around the world of GW2 that would seem to be of interest to Anet, just look at the patch that covered the world bosses.
• Does not reward any china farmer.
• To have a second precursor with this system you have to buy the game one more time

sorry for the long post, I hope that at least someone read it ^^

Shukay.3728:

To have a second precursor with this system you have to buy the game one more time

Anet drone pls go

Kimyrielle.3826:

Osi.3504:

That’s called supply and demand boys and girls, nothing more.

Yes, the problem in this case is the supply side a.k.a. drop rate, which is set by ANet to such a ridiculously low value that the prices had no other chance than to rise to the moon. That’s basic economics at work, would take less than 2 minutes to adjust on ANet’s side and completely solve the issue.

ANet obviously doesn’t care that legendary weapons have become a “Look at me, I am awesome enough to know how to play the TP!!!” weapon, otherwise they’d do just that.

Honestly a lot of my guildies are clueless about playing the TP and yet they have all earned one or two legendary weapons so far without playing the TP since launch, most saved up for it, a few got them as drops or another precursor they sold to get the one they wanted, either way… no one is entitled to a legendary unless you have earned it, doesn’t matter if that was from a drop, saving up, or flipping the TP (which is 100% legit as you are taking the risk and flipping items from lazy people (people who instant buy and sell)).

RNG is good on this game, without it a lot of things wouldn’t stay in order but I agree the RNG aspect is annoying and building a precursor would be okay assuming it took MONTHS to earn because right now they take months already typically.

Anet, this is the sort of stuff that makes players hate you so much you have to post a thread begging them to be nicer to you. Jeez, it’s like the kid who reminds the teacher the homework is due then wonders why the football team shoves him in a locker…

Actually it’s the kind of thing that shows how players feel entitles to way too much. You ask for communication and then when it’s given, everyone cries murder, but when there is no update, even more rage. You can’t realistically expect an MMO to post a laundry list of huge features an expect them ALL to be implemented on time. We are lucky that they share half of the long term goals they have in the first place, especially considering the content that IS delivered. Whether you like the content and consider it quality or not, the fact is that it takes time to create it. Time that is used on certain projects instead of others.

It’s selfish to not realize the scope of a project like precursor crafting, and the impact it will have on many game elements, including the economy which is a beast of its own. You say that this is what makes people hate ANet but you take for granted their openness and will to accept widespread disappointment for a short time, until they are sure they can deliver a quality product.

The game LAUNCHED with the same philosophy. This is nothing new; you’re playing an MMO and the communication has been more than sufficient. I read through Chris’s post and it’s unbelievable that a development team has to post such a sentiment to their player base. I’m on these forums ever day and the amount of responses from developers is astonishing.

But I digress – legendary crafting is a huge part of the goal system in this game and frankly I’d be more disappointed if they did it wrong than I would if it took another year. And before you make another post, you can probably bet that new skills are another at risk update. Just play the game, if you don’t like it, don’t. It’s that simple.

Here is what is going to happen. The short answer is no, the long answer is yes. I’m definitely sure an alternate way to obtain precursors will be implemented, HOWEVER, it wont be what a lot of players expect, nor will it be easier than the current methods. There will be a surge of threads complaining how “I might as well mystic toilet it” but nothing else will be done to it. In the end, moments prior to the release of this method, precursors will tank in price, but after the details have been fully revealed, the price will skyrocket again to somewhere slightly below what they were.

Osi.3504:

Edit: Oh and the reason legendary/precursor implementation is fragile as the Dev’s are saying is because they don’t want to implode the economy with making materials too highly demanded, they have to CAREFULLY implement them and make sure it goes smooth. Otherwise T6 materials will be 1 gold each and all the babies will be crying about how hard they are to get and how expensive those are too.

They had absolutely no problem in shattering the economy equilibrium for the ascended crafting update, so i don’t see why in this case it should suddenly become a serious problem.

Precursor crafting should be released THIS YEAR, before ascended armor. Here’s why.

1. Ascended armor is a waste of development time.
2. The stats make upgrading to ascended armor worthless, for example the zerker stats don’t even increase % crit damage on ascended armor, its only +18 stats all together and no crit dmg.
3. The skins are ugly.
4. No one asked for ascended armor, people have BEEN ASKING for precursor crafting merely months after this game was released, and are STILL asking for it.
5. There is NO PURPOSE or function to ascended armor at all; whereas adding precursor crafting actually has a purpose by fixing RNG broken gameplay which a lot of people hate, (they hate rng) myself included.
6. Ascended armor doesn’t actually serve any function or purpose whatsoever, whereas precursor crafting actually fixes broken gameplay and is something people want.

Simply put Anet developers, I see no reason why precursor crafting is not taking priority over anything else you people are releasing. It’s something people have been begging gets changed for a long time. Ascended armor is an update that nobody really asked for, it serves no purpose, doesn’t improve gameplay and in fact makes it worse in my opinion, and is frankly a complete waste of development time because of these reasons.

Priority-content releases for this game should be updates that fix broken/weak parts of this game and is something that players ask for from developers. Precursor crafting falls into both of those categories.

Quite frankly I don’t know if I can wait longer than 1-2 months for precursor crafting because its something that should have been fixed in this game months ago and the fact that you’re telling me and everyone else that it may not happen by the end of this year, that something as dumb and inconsequential as ascended armor may have priority over it, is ridiculous.

Now that I know for sure that precursor crafting may be a reality one day, I don’t know if I can keep playing this game longer than 2 months knowing that you people at ANET are this incompetent. Precursor crafting should have been a priority and it should have been released months ago.

I have 500g now, I’ve crafted my gift of metal, gift of mastery, I nearly have enough mats to craft the other gifts for twilight, I certainly have the gold for it… but no. You’re asking me, and everyone else in the same situation, to continue playing the game with this problem sitting in our faces for more than 2 additional months. Are you crazy?

You know creating the legendary is all we think about every time we’re salvaging rares for globs or opening our bank tabs or opening the TP, at least it’s all I think about. So asking us to sit there and take it for longer than 2 months is more like asking us to wait an eternity for something that should have been FIXED already. Not to mention what ridiculous hoops you’re going to make us jump through to craft the precursor itself.

I quit this game for 4 months a while ago because I dropped like 300g in the mystic toilet and got nothing. I put exactly 200g in rare greatswords and 100g in purely exotic gs and didn’t get precursor. I came back with a determined resolution. Honestly, I think I’ll have to quit again unless we get some better news than “It’s still on our drawing board” when something as inconsequential as ascended armor has priority over broken gameplay (mystic toilet), it crosses the line.

I don’t understand how some people can put 30g worth into toilet and get precursor but others put 200g+ and get nothing. This needs to be changed NOW. Not later, not 2 months later. NOW anet. Nobody cares about ascended armor.

PS: For future reference I hope achievement points have nothing to do with getting your precursor. Doing something you are forced to do (# of achievements for POINTS), that you have to intentionally go out of your way to do, is not good gameplay. I finished the story, I got 100% world completion, I’ve done every single dungeon in the game, if I have to get +3000 points in achievements or something insanely lame that forces me to go out completely of my way to craft a precursor I’ll probably quit the game if I haven’t already quit by the time we can actually craft it.

I hope they will be cheaper. Getting a legendary is not hard, it just take time if you dont use your kreditcard or playing the tp

@Shelledfade

The precurser market is directly related to the forging of precursers. An exotic greatsword sells for about 2g, so 1 attempt (using exotics) for dusk cost 8g. Since dusk sells for 800g, it probably takes an average of 100 attempts using exotics GSs to get one. By using 200g you baisiclly put in 25% of the average, and then quit because you weren’t one of those lucky people who got one quickly & cheaply.

I’m not saying i agree with the RGN system, because i am one of those who bought my dusk for 700g, because i’d be mad if i blew it all with nothing to show for it. I do support crafting, but not to make precursers cheaper, mearly as another way to get it. I’d of rather used that 700g crafting my own, then blowing it on the forge, or buying off the trading post. I don’t want them to cost 200g either, crafting should be comparable with the current cost, to not destroy markets.

I think the type of weapon should be the determaning factor in crafting it. Since daggers, greatswords, staffs, and hammers seem to be the highest valued, those precursers should cost more. I’d rather not see a generic recipe for all precusers, or a token you trade to a merchant for whatever one you want. Instead, i’d rather see the weapon type incorporated into the crafting, like it really costing 400 exotic greatswords to craft it. Instead of RGN using the forge you would craft with these. I think the purpose of adding crafting is to avoid RGN, not make them cheaper.

UrScrewed.6183:

@Shelledfade

The precurser market is directly related to the forging of precursers. An exotic greatsword sells for about 2g, so 1 attempt (using exotics) for dusk cost 8g. Since dusk sells for 800g, it probably takes an average of 100 attempts using exotics GSs to get one. By using 200g you baisiclly put in 25% of the average, and then quit because you weren’t one of those lucky people who got one quickly & cheaply.

I’m not saying i agree with the RGN system, because i am one of those who bought my dusk for 700g, because i’d be mad if i blew it all with nothing to show for it. I do support crafting, but not to make precursers cheaper, mearly as another way to get it. I’d of rather used that 700g crafting my own, then blowing it on the forge, or buying off the trading post. I don’t want them to cost 200g either, crafting should be comparable with the current cost, to not destroy markets.

I think the type of weapon should be the determaning factor in crafting it. Since daggers, greatswords, staffs, and hammers seem to be the highest valued, those precursers should cost more. I’d rather not see a generic recipe for all precusers, or a token you trade to a merchant for whatever one you want. Instead, i’d rather see the weapon type incorporated into the crafting, like it really costing 400 exotic greatswords to craft it. Instead of RGN using the forge you would craft with these. I think the purpose of adding crafting is to avoid RGN, not make them cheaper.

I don’t agree with any of your points. You shouldn’t be able to put precursor on the TP in the first place in my opinion. Devalues people who have legendaries in the first place when they pay real money to get one.

RNG is a bad mechanic. Some people get lucky while others have to spend 5x the amount because they didn’t get lucky. It’s dumb and should have been changed a while ago.

Like I said, I’d be willing to spend 200 or 300g to craft precursor, anything more than that is overkill. I don’t give a crap about the market because I don’t think these things should be on the market in the first place.

You bought your precursor for 700g, that’s your problem. Even if I had 3x that mch gold to spend I wouldn’t spend that much on a precursor. There is no skill or effort involved in getting one its just random dumb luck and I won’t give that much effort spent in getting that much gold to someone who got randomly lucky. I don’t agree with it. If you’re mad that you spent so much when they may make it much easier to get precursor then that’s your problem. You were willing to spend that much on it, I’m not willing to give someone that much gold because they got luckier than me, and there’s plenty of people who share that opinion.

Shelledfade.6435:

Like I said, I’d be willing to spend 200 or 300g to craft precursor, anything more than that is overkill.

It’s overkill because you can’t afford it. It’s going for 800g for a reason, and if your only willing to spend 25% of what other people will, then you might as well quit again.

UrScrewed.6183:

Shelledfade.6435:

Like I said, I’d be willing to spend 200 or 300g to craft precursor, anything more than that is overkill.

It’s overkill because you can’t afford it. It’s going for 800g for a reason, and if your only willing to spend 25% of what other people will, then you might as well quit again.

Nobody really spends that much anyway. Mostly they just get traded around with people who have 1000’s of gold to spend because they exploited the market early in the first place.

I am not going to give that much gold to some random noob who got lucky. I’m sorry that you did, are you mad? Good, you should be. I would be too.

25% huh? There goes the internet making up %’s again…

Shelledfade.6435:

UrScrewed.6183:

Shelledfade.6435:

Like I said, I’d be willing to spend 200 or 300g to craft precursor, anything more than that is overkill.

It’s overkill because you can’t afford it. It’s going for 800g for a reason, and if your only willing to spend 25% of what other people will, then you might as well quit again.

Nobody really spends that much anyway. Mostly they just get traded around with people who have 1000’s of gold to spend because they exploited the market early in the first place.

I am not going to give that much gold to some random noob who got lucky. I’m sorry that you did, are you mad? Good, you should be.

25% huh? There goes the internet making up %’s again…

You can earn that much gold without market “exploits”. It’s called farming.

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

Prioritising the most wanted item in the game shouldn’t be THAT tough. >_<

That’s a mighty kittenumption ya got there, sugarcube.

We’ll get it, but we won’t like it. It’s going to be nothing but an exercise in hoop-jumping, treadmill-running, and soul-crushing grind. Despite the notion that carrots wouldn’t be used to “keep players playing as long as possible”, things have degenerated into just that. Metrics – daily player log-ins – are the only thing the developers are focused on, so you can be sure crafting a precursor will be a drawn-out grind.

angelpaladin.7921:

reading thought the last few post I feel extremely bad for you guys when you grow up. Supply and demand is what the real world is built on.

Yeah so what, this is a game and the TP is anything but a real life simulation when entire tiers of gear are excluded from it and when arenanet have shown the propensity to manipulate supply and prices the way they have over the life of the game.

We should have something alikely Liadri. Is the only thing that I’m proud of show, because it shows of my skill, and not my Giant ammount of time spent.

I mean, do solo-challenges that gives you the mats to craft it. And make it as hard as Liadri.

=p

Shelledfade.6435:

I think everyone deserves an official response on this. It was said by a developer that it would happen by the end of this year but I don’t think there was ever an official statement on it.

I need to know this information because I need to know if I should continue to play the game or not in the hopes that I can actually get a precursor. I have 500g right now and I’m still continuing to grind but even if I get the 800g that is required to buy dusk off the TP I’m not going to spend that much gold for a precursor.

Some people might wonder why I wouldn’t spend that much gold on a precursor even if I had that much, so I’ll give you that answer. A precursor is random dumb luck RNG. There is no skill or effort involved in attaining one whatsoever other than putting a couple rares in the mystic forge and getting lucky by pushing a button. I don’t believe its worth putting 2 solid months of tedious grinding effort into something that is based on random dumb luck. I just don’t agree with that, I don’t think its worth it, which is why I want to know if I am wasting my time playing the game or not because if we end up not being able to craft a precursor by the end of this year it makes any effort I continue to put forth in the game a wasted effort

I consider myself a hardcore gamer, as a hardcore gamer I need some sort of goal in any game I’m playing and I made that goal for myself twilight. I’ve already put around 400g into the mystic forge and didn’t get a precursor so you’ll understand why I’m a bit bitter about the whole thing when there’s other people running around with two legendary’s because they didn’t have to spend 800g for a precursor.

Is precursor crafting coming or not. We all deserve a straight answer. Yes or no, that’s all I need. I would be willing to spend 300g in order to craft it but yeah 800g off the TP is asking way too much.

Please answer yes or no.

Yes, but in 2015.

They will introduce it when 50% of the player base start to quit! but i’m guessing by that time it will have been too late!

The thing that allot of you guys dont understand is that a precursor weapon is ONLY 25% of the Legendary weapon! .. so it SHOULD not cost 70% of the total

Making them FREE tomorrow will only drop the cost of a Legendary from 1800g to 1000g .. and that will not make them worthless or make them a worse END game content it will make them so much more reasonable

At the start of the game a legendary weapons greatest cost was TIME in doing the world completion, Amassing the Karma for Clovers/Shards and Gift of Battle. Cost in Gold was round 320g in materials and precursor.

Now its 95% about the GOLD, GOLD, GOLD in precursor weapon, in inflated T6 materials, in Charged lodestones/ecto’s and in PRECURSOR WEAPON ..

This is not how it should be and we would be better off going to back how it used to be. My guess is that if the precursor weapon was to drop in value tomorrow all other parts of the legendary would skyrocket and we would be back to normal on overall cost anyways… STOP trying to scare ANET from doing this! just so you Trading post flippers can keep making a bucket load on these items.

Anet should read my post and ignore everyone else scare mongering about the END of the game if they make these over inflated random luck items more reasonable.

Just keep in mind ANet considers throwing 4 things in the Mystic Forge “Crafting”.

It would be totally doable to have a “recipe” for precursors that doesn’t take a single point in ANY crafting trade (much less restricting it to the three weapon trades).

Given that that the 8 crafting trades are already part of making a Legendary (need 2 at 400 to make the gifts) there’s not really any reason they must be part of making the precursor.

Kimyrielle.3826:

Mourningcry.9428:

On another note, I think ANet’s original estimation for completion of a Legendary was 6-8months minimally and intended as a “long term” goal. Now, despite the early exploits, I think it would be entire reasonable to say that ANet was way off in those estimates. How about ascended crafting… what did it take, 2-3days before the first one was crafted? How about the new Teq – less than 24 hours before being downed.

Needless to say, ANet has a record of grossly underestimating their playerbase.

Given that, I think that if they do go down this reliable plath, and intend a crafted precursor to take a month to craft, I’d suggest they multiply those efforts tenfold. And then double it again. Maybe then they’d get closer to their expected results.

Yes and no. If they based their estimation on the -fastest- player to gain a legendary, they were obviously off. However, if they based their estimate on the -average- player, they erred on the -wrong- side, since the average GW2 player doesn’t yet have a legendary. That group got long priced out of the market by the steadily rising precursor prices in particular.

In general, it’s a bad idea to take the most hardcore of all hardcore players as basis for scaling time requirements for achievements like this (same goes for Teq btw.). For if you do that, you’re basically guaranteed to lock out 99% of the playerbase from -ever- completing the task. If they had set the workload required to get a legendary so that the fastest player in GW2 would have needed 8 months to get it – the average GW2 player would certainly have needed multiple lifetimes for the same achievement . Which I am sure is not their intention, despite how much some of the more elitist players might love just that.

Didn’t you know? According to a lot of people on this forum only about 1% of the game pop deserves to have a legendary. Everyone else just isn’t dedicated enough (lol).

Because as we all know suffering through extreme RNG is the true measure of ones dedication.

Precursor price is fine at what they are now, in fact, I think it should be higher. Being bless by the RnG gods is an important prereq for welding a legendary. After all, luck is one of the greatest virtues a hero can have (no sarcasm).

I have no problem with rng because when I was young, my mother dipped me into the lake of rng. My only weakness is at the ankle, where she held onto me so that spot was not blessed and she had not thought about double dipping at that time. Luckily, I rarely use my ankle to play games.

Luck = BAD
Skill/Dedication = Good… why cant this be the norm.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Precursors-just-tanked

So Nobody is manipulating precursor price isn kitten

I am up to 600g that I purely attained by grinding and salvaging. It’s depressing because that should be double the amount I should need to pay for precursor and yet I can do nothing with it. If it was 800g I wouldn’t give it to some random lucky nub who got luckier than me from mystic forge anyway. So I can’t do jack crap with my gold.

I am in quite the dilemma. It makes playing the game almost like torture. After the halloween update ends I think I’m just gonna stop playing until I hear something about crafting precursors because I can’t keep doing this for no reason, but I am looking forward to this halloween update.

Honestly I think ANET should just let us buy them from the Miyani vendor for 300g. If we have that much gold then let us use it! It is more than a fair amount for any precursor and it would be a good gold sink instead of putting 300+ gold into other players hands who then have enough gold to abuse TP prices badly by controlling the market simply because they got RNG lucky. It’s mind boggling this has been allowed to remain as it is this long.

I would rather have my gold go to an NPC than to someone who got luckier than me.

VidGhost.3215:

They will introduce it when 50% of the player base start to quit! but i’m guessing by that time it will have been too late!

I have a feeling a bunch are gonna leave near the end of this year or maybe at the end of WvW season 1 and Anet will try and hurry to put it in next season it will be to late and then they will try and get players back with an expansion announcement, but only time will tell.

Posted or not I was just browsing…so true or false? Currently on the wiki page.

I don’t know where the “probably around Christmas time” bit comes from, other than the fact that we’re simply running out of 2013. Precursor crafting is still in the works, but it’s unclear when. To quote dev Colin Johanson from page one of this thread,

ColinJohanson.2394:

You will absolutely see a way to create a precursor available in the future. As detailed in our plans for the second half of the year here:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/

As mentioned at the end of the blog, as always things are subject to change as test and prepare various systems. Most of the stuff covered in the blog you’ve already seen implemented, or steps towards being implemented, however the precursor building (and corresponding additional legendary items) is the one highest at risk to not make it this year.

It is still something we absolutely plan to do!

Charak.9761:

Redenaz.8631:

Crafting precusors will definitely have an effect on certain markets, which is one reason I could imagine for why it’s taken so long to implement, so as to figure out a way to reduce instability. Considering the disequilibrium caused by ascended crafting and the magic find revamp,, I wouldn’t be surprised if they wait to see how the market handles ascended weapons.

It’s gotten way out of hand of the free-market, it should not have been 800g for a precursor. You could get them for 10-50g in the early months.

In the early months, how long would it take for you to get 10-50g? I can easily get between 5 to 10g a day now. Should I be able to buy a precursor on the TP for 5 to 10 days work? Definitely not. There are more rewards in the game (champ bags, WvW chests ect.) and they have flooded the market with gold causing massive inflation.

There was one day during the Scarlet invasion champ farm that I managed to earn 100g which I was putting towards spark. Imagine my dismay when I discovered the price of spark had increased 100g that same day. We wanted more/ better rewards. This is their effect.

The ability to craft precursors would be a good feature. Make them account bound if people are worried about crashing some “markets”. For people worried about their items being “devalued”, make the craftable ones look like white items of the same type without the fancy effects even, I don’t care really.

The ascended stats and the stat switching ability is mainly the reason for me. It would certainly let me play different builds without lugging around too much stuff.

Or perhaps treat all ascended weapons as precursors. Upgrading to legendary status will be through crafting where all the craft materials are account bound.

By the way, looking at the quote, and the fact that “precursor building” is followed immediately by “and corresponding additional legendary items”, it’s entirely possible they don’t even plan to make current precursors craftable at all.

Astralporing.1957:

By the way, looking at the quote, and the fact that “precursor building” is followed immediately by “and corresponding additional legendary items”, it’s entirely possible they don’t even plan to make current precursors craftable at all.

From Colin’s cleverly worded statement, to the “some precursors” showing in the image provided a few posts above, I’d say you are 100% dead on right.

Anet is going to, once again, play snake oil salesman and pull a fast one on everyone. They will give us precursor crafting, without giving us precursor crafting.

Getting really tired of this culture of deception.

Astralporing.1957:

By the way, looking at the quote, and the fact that “precursor building” is followed immediately by “and corresponding additional legendary items”, it’s entirely possible they don’t even plan to make current precursors craftable at all.

Honestly, I think that this is the best way to go. The current ones retain some value and “prestige” that is so important to people (personal opinion: lol @ prestige in a video game). Make the new ones only obtainable through the craftable/scavenger hunt path.

People will complain regardless of what happens, so I don’t feel like writing a big long argument.