I’m sure I read somewhere that the achievement points we already have from previous dailies and monthlies will be taken into account with this update, so some of us will already have some currency to spend?
Laurels are only earned through daily and monthly achievements (starting with the feb monthly) and will not reward for previous daily/monthly achievements completed since folks didn’t know this system was coming.
We will however introduce an expanded/new reward system in the future that will reward for other types of achievements, this system will reward previous achievement points earned. (But may require bringing back into line some infinitely repeatable achievements that would bloat/break this system)
if that idea is still coming, achievement points will to some degree reward laurels. What made me think of this again was reading more and more comments along the line “we are not encouraged to create alts”. Do you think this might help alleviate that feeling? What could the conversion rate be, 100:1 (achievement points:laurels)?
“Whose Kitten is this?” – “It’s a Charr baby.”
“Whose Charr is this?”- “Ted’s.”
“Who’s Ted?”- “Ted’s dead, baby. Ted’s dead.”
I hope they still plan to do this, but I am a bit pessimistic. Realistically they should have already done so. Put a cap on the infinite achievements and reward laurels for points already earned. Unfortunately I see this as something that may get scrapped. Call it a hunch. I hope that I’m wrong.
They could have kept their Karma currency for ascended gear and bump up the price instead of making a whole new currency for it. The only reason that seems glaringly obvious is that many players have millions of Karma and could outfit themselves and alts in a day. So they chose a new currency where everyone was on equal footing.
The achievement point conversion would be an advantage to those that have been playing awhile and now that we get points for doing dailies….
I think this idea will get swept under the rug.
Since the weren’t included in the February update, I don’t think they are going to be doing this anytime soon. Probably sometime in the fall after the hardcore have all gotten their ascended gear through other means.
I also don’t think it’s going to be a straight up mathematical conversion. For example, they already said that the infinitely repeated achievements won’t count (or won’t count past the first time.).
I would like to see 1 laurel per achievement in some cases. Do a jumping puzzle for the first time get a cookie … I mean laurel.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
once they need to boost the casual players, read: wellfare.
now that they decided to go the gear grind route, you will have hardcore 24/7 players that’ll get everything before the mass.
and then you boost the mass and give the hardcore another impossible candy, and so on.
I don’t know how it will be done, never said that – we just know that achievement points (already) earned will count towards it (unless infinite category). Definitely not against one laurel per achievement itself. Would definitely reward people to play another race as well if every personal story achievement awards one laurel?
Btw, I’m not asking for anything, just thought it’s a topic of interest especially since some people seem to be discouraged of creating multiple characters.
“Whose Kitten is this?” – “It’s a Charr baby.”
“Whose Charr is this?”- “Ted’s.”
“Who’s Ted?”- “Ted’s dead, baby. Ted’s dead.”
i’m skeptical that they’ll give out laurels based on achievement points, even though they said they would, simply because it would crash the economy with a huge influx of dyes and rare and exotic armor and weapons, ectos, t6 mats. it wouldn’t be pretty.
but if they do give out laurels, it will be in little bursts, like if you qualify for 100 laurels, you’ll probably be given them at a rate of 5-10 per month over the course of a year or two…. you know…. to keep you playing.
“We just don’t want players…in Guild Wars 2.
No one enjoys [it]. No one finds it fun.” —Colin J.
I believe we got too many currencies in this game. Right now we got: gold, gems, laurels, skill points and guild commendations. Each of those are acquired through different contents and used on different traders for different purposes. Soon achievements points will become a new currency.
In my opinion they could just remove laurels (rewarding players with more karma for doing dailies and monthly) and add the items available at laurels traders to karma vendors. This would also adress one of main critics of players regarding the new gear tier (Ascended), which is that they are only acquired through a very specific type of content. At release they were only acquired via fractals and now they are acquired via daily and monthly achievements as well. Making Ascended item available via karma would make them available through basically any content in the game, since pretty much everything rewards players karma. That would follow along the lines of “Play the way you want”.
On side note, theres another ingame currency that are dungeon tokens. But I understand and aggree with the concept of having to do a specific dungeon to acquire a specific dungeon armor/weapon skin.
Too much can be read into Colin’s statement about rewarding achievement points. Why does that feel familiar? Anyway, the statement does not mean achievement points will be included in the laurel marketplace but only that achievement points could have some future reward attached to them. What form that reward marketplace takes is anyone’s guess.
“No! You can’t eat the ones that talk!
They’re special! They got aspirations.”
Finn the human
@ DungeonDaughter – one would hope that they took that into consideration when they announced the potential? This is I guess where it makes more sense to go by achievement itself instead of the amount of achievement points, as they are a fixed number. But alone the slayer category has almost 40 achievements with mostly 4 tiers. Would sound lot’s if every tier counts, maybe only the last tier per category?
“Whose Kitten is this?” – “It’s a Charr baby.”
“Whose Charr is this?”- “Ted’s.”
“Who’s Ted?”- “Ted’s dead, baby. Ted’s dead.”
if that idea is still coming, achievement points will to some degree reward laurels. What made me think of this again was reading more and more comments along the line “we are not encouraged to create alts”. Do you think this might help alleviate that feeling? What could the conversion rate be, 100:1 (achievement points:laurels)?
Read BETTER, Colin is saying that Laurels are a specific rewards to dailies and monthlies and that there will be OTHER rewards than laurels for achievements points.
A dev should confirm this before the thread confuses everyone.
I understand where you are coming from, however I read “new reward system” as a mechanic – and not a new currency, especially when read in context comparing previous daily achievements not counting and repeated achievements not counting.
Otherwise I have not seen any mention of yet another currency.
“Whose Kitten is this?” – “It’s a Charr baby.”
“Whose Charr is this?”- “Ted’s.”
“Who’s Ted?”- “Ted’s dead, baby. Ted’s dead.”
Rouven, I agree that Colin’s wording, well mostly the context, can be confusing. I do not understand why he did not make the distinction clearer in the original post.
I think using laurels for the achievement point reward system would be a waste of achievement points.
“No! You can’t eat the ones that talk!
They’re special! They got aspirations.”
Finn the human
Laurels only for dailies/monthlies – no ties to achievement system otherwise, instead something different will (hopefully?) be coming.
Laurels only for dailies/monthlies starting at that point in time, not retroactively – further rewarded retroactively for achievements already accomplished.
I personally would be fine with leaving it at laurels, but who knows what else is in store for us, might even be better. Could not think of anything right this very second though.
“Whose Kitten is this?” – “It’s a Charr baby.”
“Whose Charr is this?”- “Ted’s.”
“Who’s Ted?”- “Ted’s dead, baby. Ted’s dead.”
Laurels only for dailies/monthlies – no ties to achievement system otherwise, instead something different will (hopefully?) be coming.
Laurels only for dailies/monthlies starting at that point in time, not retroactively – further rewarded retroactively for achievements already accomplished.
I personally would be fine with leaving it at laurels, but who knows what else is in store for us, might even be better. Could not think of anything right this very second though.
Rules to understand Colin:
- If what he says has several interpretations, take the pessimist one.
- Lower the degree of awesomeness of his messages by 10 degrees (do not get too excited by what he announces).
- Try resuming his huge paragraphs to a simple sentence. It always work.
He said an expanded/new reward system. It could be just getting more laurels from your achievement points but more likely it’ll be an entirely new system.
Course even if it isn’t laurels, it could be another system that can get you ascended pieces, so end result is in the same neighborhood.
They probably don’t know what they want to do with it yet other than “We want for people to get a lot of achievement points and then get something out of it besides a number on the screen”.
It is indeed challenging to shepherd kittens pastured on catnip., but sometimes the kittens manage to shepherd themselves.
I would prefer a new, more gestaltish reward system rather than pointing every activity in the game towards a marketplace dominated by psuedo-vertical gear progression.
“No! You can’t eat the ones that talk!
They’re special! They got aspirations.”
Finn the human
Gesundheit! (sorry but gestaltish sounds like someone sneezing)
Gestalt can be defined as the thing that is more, or other than, the sum of the parts. By gestaltish I mean a reward system that encompasses and expands upon GW2’s unique qualities. Gear just doesn’t cut it.
edited to apologize to the German and English language
“No! You can’t eat the ones that talk!
They’re special! They got aspirations.”
Finn the human
To me it doesn’t matter if they implement this or not. I’ve missed several dailies so I’m about 6 laurels behind (if I did them and the monthly faithfully) but I’m not really concerned.
The ascended amulets and earrings and all you get with laurels are certainly nice, but they aren’t anything to get overly excited about. I find the rate I’m earning laurels right now to be about right and I don’t see where retroactively rewarding some players with maybe 30 laurels or others with 50 or some with 7 based on achievement points is really necessary.
I’m sure I read somewhere that the achievement points we already have from previous dailies and monthlies will be taken into account with this update, so some of us will already have some currency to spend?
Laurels are only earned through daily and monthly achievements (starting with the feb monthly) and will not reward for previous daily/monthly achievements completed since folks didn’t know this system was coming.
We will however introduce an expanded/new reward system in the future that will reward for other types of achievements, this system will reward previous achievement points earned. (But may require bringing back into line some infinitely repeatable achievements that would bloat/break this system)
if that idea is still coming, achievement points will to some degree reward laurels. What made me think of this again was reading more and more comments along the line “we are not encouraged to create alts”. Do you think this might help alleviate that feeling? What could the conversion rate be, 100:1 (achievement points:laurels)?
Umm… if I’m not mistaken he clarifies in that very thread that the rewards for non-daily/monthly achievements will most likely not be given in the form of Laurels, but more direct rewards like titles and skins. And if not in that thread, he specified so elsewhere, I’ll see if I can find the post.
EDIT: Arrgh! Can’t find it, but I’m absolutely positive one of the devs said this when somebody made a similar thread months ago.
The most likely implementation of this will probably involve individual rewards tied to each achievement (so either each achievement adds a balanced score to our new achievement token type unrelated to actual achievement points, or each achievement has a unique reward), rather than a generic points mean prizes system. Basing anything off points alone would mean imbalancing things towards long-term players who’ve farmed hundreds of points from dailies/monthlies, as well as the unlimited achievement lines like master of entropy.
It’s also unlikely to be a functional reward – we’re probably looking more at unique skins and titles, so that players don’t feel like they “have” to drink 100000 units of alcohol, kill 5000 enemies with every single weapon type, kill 1000 giants, etc.
@ Psientist – hehe, I call that Denglish (deutsch/english), still can’t picture it but sounds intriguing.
@ Conncept – wasn’t from Colin then, I checked his post history before posting and after your post again
I haven’t played GW1, perhaps something like the HoM rewards? I don’t really mind currencies, but a little more direct might be nice, although I’m not sure how they would solve the infinite repeatable points then (unless they take them away).
Guess we’ll have to wait and see what’s in store. Hopefully it will be more an account based reward instead if a character reward so as to ease the mind of the “no love for alts” people.
“Whose Kitten is this?” – “It’s a Charr baby.”
“Whose Charr is this?”- “Ted’s.”
“Who’s Ted?”- “Ted’s dead, baby. Ted’s dead.”
Whatever they do, they just shouldn’t add more currencies. It’s more than enough now with Karma, Laurels, Gold, Tokens, Badges and so on, this is becoming ridiculous.
Makes you wonder if it’s still coming. Although if it’s directly tied to achievement points then it is not really a new “reward system” – just the rewards would be new.
“Whose Kitten is this?” – “It’s a Charr baby.”
“Whose Charr is this?”- “Ted’s.”
“Who’s Ted?”- “Ted’s dead, baby. Ted’s dead.”
if that idea is still coming, achievement points will to some degree reward laurels. What made me think of this again was reading more and more comments along the line “we are not encouraged to create alts”. Do you think this might help alleviate that feeling?
Some players are just in it to complain, and there is nothing ArenaNet or anyone else can do to alleviate that. I mean, the daily and monthly achievements can already be done on any character — and laurels are account-wide — yet, still they are somehow “anti-alt.” And, of course, you also get jugs of karma and mystic coins, which are also transferable between characters. I don’t know how much more alt-friendly they could have possibly made this.
I believe that retroactive rewards for previously-won achievement points is probably coming in some form, at some time. Hard to say when, though. Could be a while. People have a LOT of achievement points, and laurels as a currency are just not designed to be tossed around like candy.
I mean, the daily and monthly achievements can already be done on any character — and laurels are account-wide — yet, still they are somehow “anti-alt.” And, of course, you also get jugs of karma and mystic coins, which are also transferable between characters. I don’t know how much more alt-friendly they could have possibly made this.
The reason why people would argue that the laurel system is anti-alt is because laurels are account bound. It might be alt-friendly in that you can gain the laurel with one character and spend it on another, but it’s anti-alt because you will only be getting one laurel per day per account — no matter how many characters you have.
For laurels to be alt-friendly, daily achievements themselves would need to be able to be achieved per character and not per account. As it stand right now, you need 30 laurels for an amulet. That would take 30 days. If you have one alt, it will take 60 days to outfit both instead of 30 days to outfit both. If you have two alts, it will take 90 days to outfit all three instead of 30 days to outfit all three.
Top gear is now time-gated, and time-gated per account and not per character. Back when exotic gear was top gear, you could outfit all your characters at your own pace, but now you are hard-limited as to what pace you can gain your equipment and that pace is lengthened per day, instead of how long you work, based on how many characters you have. That’s why this game has become anti-alt.
Sure you can argue that top gear is not necessary, but this is an mmo and people don’t want to get left behind.
“We just don’t want players…in Guild Wars 2.
No one enjoys [it]. No one finds it fun.” —Colin J.
@DungeonDaughter – although I agree with you about allowing each character to earn a daily reward; it’s doubtful Anet will allow it.
It would seem that it’s fair that if a player does the daily on each character that they should each be rewarded for the time put in.
Ie. Someone plays 10hrs in two days gets rewarded equally to someone playing 10hrs spread over 10 days. BUT there will always be the Min/Max crowd that would create alts just to give themselves the ability to exploit the laurel rewards. I don’t know what the max amount of alts is but if they allowed this, someone would find out just for the sole purpose of getting max laurels (though it would benefit Anet at 800gems per extra slot).
I mean, the daily and monthly achievements can already be done on any character — and laurels are account-wide — yet, still they are somehow “anti-alt.” And, of course, you also get jugs of karma and mystic coins, which are also transferable between characters. I don’t know how much more alt-friendly they could have possibly made this.
The reason why people would argue that the laurel system is anti-alt is because laurels are account bound. It might be alt-friendly in that you can gain the laurel with one character and spend it on another, but it’s anti-alt because you will only be getting one laurel per day per account — no matter how many characters you have.
For laurels to be alt-friendly, daily achievements themselves would need to be able to be achieved per character and not per account. As it stand right now, you need 30 laurels for an amulet. That would take 30 days. If you have one alt, it will take 60 days to outfit both instead of 30 days to outfit both. If you have two alts, it will take 90 days to outfit all three instead of 30 days to outfit all three.
Top gear is now time-gated, and time-gated per account and not per character. Back when exotic gear was top gear, you could outfit all your characters at your own pace, but now you are hard-limited as to what pace you can gain your equipment and that pace is lengthened per day, instead of how long you work, based on how many characters you have. That’s why this game has become anti-alt.
Sure you can argue that top gear is not necessary, but this is an mmo and people don’t want to get left behind.
I respect your point of view but i don’t share it. I have no delusions about putting effort into alts as soon as i made them. Equipping them all (7 so far) with exotics is not something i can do in a month as well but it gives me something to work towards in my free time. I don’t plan to stop playing next month, so what’s another 30 days worth (40) of laurels. What’s another year (480) worth if i’m still playing by then, if not… i wont need them anyways.
I’d argue that people are approaching a causal game with anti-casual mentality (which is what caused ascended to be released in the first place). Don’t understand? Who are the people who cried that they finished all the content in the first 2 weeks? Who made a legendary in less than a month?
Lets say you have one character and he or she has all 6 pieces of ascended gear. I don’t doubt for a second that you will scream for Anet to introduce ascended armor and weapons as soon as possible or (dare i say) you quit because you have nothing to do (/aim for now).
Anti-____ is such a harsh term. If taking care of 2nd child costs more than one, am i anti-child? I don’t want my child to be left behind as well.
@DungeonDaughter – although I agree with you about allowing each character to earn a daily reward; it’s doubtful Anet will allow it.
It would seem that it’s fair that if a player does the daily on each character that they should each be rewarded for the time put in.
Ie. Someone plays 10hrs in two days gets rewarded equally to someone playing 10hrs spread over 10 days. BUT there will always be the Min/Max crowd that would create alts just to give themselves the ability to exploit the laurel rewards. I don’t know what the max amount of alts is but if they allowed this, someone would find out just for the sole purpose of getting max laurels (though it would benefit Anet at 800gems per extra slot).
What would the fix be? Soulbound laurels and get rid of of sellable stuff from laurel vendors like dyes and armor/weaps and t6 mats? I’m not even sure. Things have gotten too complicated, and your post makes it even more clear that there is no way in kitten that they’re handing out laurels for achievement points. It was a nice idea though.
“We just don’t want players…in Guild Wars 2.
No one enjoys [it]. No one finds it fun.” —Colin J.
What would the fix be? Soulbound laurels and get rid of of sellable stuff from laurel vendors like dyes and armor/weaps and t6 mats? I’m not even sure. Things have gotten too complicated, and your post makes it even more clear that there is no way in kitten that they’re handing out laurels for achievement points. It was a nice idea though.
I don’t know but I did read something a tad bit helpful yesterday in a Forbes article that was an actual interview with Anet’s Isaiah Cartwright. He alluded to the fact that there were already enough currencies in place and that the future would be more about polishing the reward systems.
(…)
I don’t know but I did read something a tad bit helpful yesterday in a Forbes article that was an actual interview with Anet’s Isaiah Cartwright. He alluded to the fact that there were already enough currencies in place and that the future would be more about polishing the reward systems.
I respect your point of view but i don’t share it. I have no delusions about putting effort into alts as soon as i made them. Equipping them all (7 so far) with exotics is not something i can do in a month as well but it gives me something to work towards in my free time. I don’t plan to stop playing next month, so what’s another 30 days worth (40) of laurels. What’s another year (480) worth if i’m still playing by then, if not… i wont need them anyways.
The current full set of ascended eq costs 180 laurels +100 ecto (and the price of a back item, not attainable through laurels). That is only for accesories. When you add to it a full armor set and two to four weapons (depending on whether you are using 2h or main + offhand setup, x two sets), you will likely to get a year of laurel’s worth per character. At least.
And if you’ll want to try a different build (maybe because the one you were using got nerfed into the ground), you’ll have to repeakitten again.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
once they need to boost the casual players, read: wellfare.
now that they decided to go the gear grind route, you will have hardcore 24/7 players that’ll get everything before the mass.
and then you boost the mass and give the hardcore another impossible candy, and so on.
I don’t think casual players are on welfare. The primary reason they’re casual, is probably because they’re sponsoring the welfare system by having a job.
If I can’t play Guild Wars 2 at work, I won’t work in Guild Wars 2 either.
Delayed content is eventually good. Rushed content is eternally bad. ~ Shigeru Miyamoto
@DungeonDaughter – although I agree with you about allowing each character to earn a daily reward; it’s doubtful Anet will allow it.
It would seem thakitten ’s fair that if a player does the daily on each character that they should each be rewarded for the time put in.
Ie. Someone plays 10hrs in two days gets rewarded equally to someone playing 10hrs spread over 10 days. BUT there will always be the Min/Max crowd that would create alts just to give themselves the ability to exploit the laurel rewards. I don’t know what the max amount of alts is but if they allowed this, someone would find out just for the sole purpose of getting max laurels (though it would benefit Anet at 800gems per extra slot).
Except that dailies are designed as an equalizer, at least in part, and you’d be taking away that function.
@DungeonDaughter – although I agree with you about allowing each character to earn a daily reward; it’s doubtful Anet will allow it.
It would seem thakitten ’s fair that if a player does the daily on each character that they should each be rewarded for the time put in.
Except that dailies are designed as an equalizer, at least in part, and you’d be taking away that function.
Hmm, you’d probably see people create alts, run the daily when it can be done with low level chars (consume food, JPs, visit laurel dude, etc), then delete and repeat. Some folks are already doing this for BLC keys when super-rare drops come around.
Dances with Leaves – Guardian – Sanctum of Rall (SoR)
yep been waiting for this a while now. Why is it when they announce something’s coming we have to wait 4-6 months before we hear anything? Anyone else annoyed by that?
@DungeonDaughter – although I agree with you about allowing each character to earn a daily reward; it’s doubtful Anet will allow it.
It would seem thakitten ’s fair that if a player does the daily on each character that they should each be rewarded for the time put in.
Ie. Someone plays 10hrs in two days gets rewarded equally to someone playing 10hrs spread over 10 days. BUT there will always be the Min/Max crowd that would create alts just to give themselves the ability to exploit the laurel rewards. I don’t know what the max amount of alts is but if they allowed this, someone would find out just for the sole purpose of getting max laurels (though it would benefit Anet at 800gems per extra slot).
Except that dailies are designed as an equalizer, at least in part, and you’d be taking away that function.
The laurels are great at equalizing. They are not without some big problems however. The first is that they go to far in that direction (instead of flat cutout at a very low and easily achievable level, a some sort of diminishing return on laurels would be a better idea). The second lies in the prices of ascended eq – one month per item is just ridiculously high.
Being able to get the items at the rate of one per 10 days, for example (with possibility of cutting that time in half, if you were willing to work akitten a bit more) might make it a bit reasonable.
Unfortunately, the ascended eq are a stopgap content and and laurels were designed not as equalizers or casual-helpers or anything like that, but as a core piece of a delaying tactics – and they do their delaying part beautifully. To the detriment of players.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
yep been waiting for this a while now. Why is it when they announce something’s coming we have to wait 4-6 months before we hear anything? Anyone else annoyed by that?
I prefer hearing about plans than hearing nothing. I suspect that we get the long term strategy from Colin but the actual scheduled release for these features is determined tactically. They may not know when they will be able to / want to give out laurels for achievements.
They may also decide that they don’t and would prefer the chest approach we’ve seen the recent content.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
I have been waiting for this since the announcement several months ago. I still need over 200 Laurels to gear my characters in ascended so I’m not particulary excited to wait another 5 months for their gear.
(For example, one alt can run fotm 40+ by now but lacks AR due to this ridiculous timegated progression.)
I have been waiting for this since the announcement several months ago. I still need over 200 Laurels to gear my characters in ascended so I’m not particulary excited to wait another 5 months for their gear.
(For example, one alt can run fotm 40+ by now but lacks AR due to this ridiculous timegated progression.)
I’ve been waiting too, before I learned that whatever happened to my account that prevents boxes from giving me anything would happen with those crafting bags too. They need to fixit. I’ve already contacted support AND reported it multiple times to their bug department.
