Leather Farm

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Posted by: Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

But that means the farm does what they wanted it to do: It’ll tank the price. Perfect.

It won’t. People are still doing it only because they haven’t realized yet that it’s not really worth it. T5 leather (which is what you get mostly from this) was never a problem, and t6 won’t be impacted at all.

And it still won’t handle the T2-T4 problem.

Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632

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Posted by: chronometria.3708

chronometria.3708

This “leather farm” is another example of good intentions being soured by poor delivery. The leather it does give is largely of the worthless sort and the whole area is blanketed by aggressive, long range sniper type mobs perched on rocks.

I got critically hit by one of those for 5500 today and I`m loaded with toughness. I can only presume that someone with minimal toughness is going to be blasted for considerably more, probably fatally as its often the case that multiple sniper mobs are merrily shooting away.

Why isn’t is just an improved version of the lower area, where there are countless chunky packs of mobs that are all keen to jump into a massive melee rumble. That’s actually quite entertaining and could easily be tuned to require a group, or several players all fighting to try to keep the ground clear.

I can only assume its to try to counter bots. Unfortunately its going to counter everyone else as well. This “leather farm” is, like the new rifle legendary weapon, a colossal waste of everyones time.

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

The drops just need to be randomized more so that it gives other tiers than primarily T5.

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Posted by: Razor.9872

Razor.9872

This leather farm is a great idea. Making it impossible to complete map exploration in this area without heading into it, is literally the worst thing that could have been done. Unless you are a thief or can stealth/survive a ridiculous level of punishment, you will not be able to solo map exploration here (or even do it with a 5-man party).

One of my guildies used 10 res orbs to get to this PoI just so she could finish map completion. Lined walls of snipers that can one shot you? assorted champs and veterans and elites in a huge mixture? a wall of charging centaurs pushing you back constantly? Map completion should not be locked behind a material farm. I love GW2, but honestly, this feels like pretty poor map planning.

I solo’d it with zealot Druid using:

Staff 3 & 5
Greatsword 3 & 4
-
Troll Unguent
“Guard!”
Signet of Stone
Signet of the Hunt
Snowleopard form (but “SotP!” would work just as well in a different way)
-
Fern Hound
Brown Bear
-
Primal Reflexes
Strider’s Defense
Quickdraw
Oakheart Salve
Shared Anguish
Wilderness Knowledge
Primal Echoes
Celestial Shadow
Lingering Light

All other profession can build to easily get up, as well.

NSPride <3

(edited by Razor.9872)

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Posted by: Razor.9872

Razor.9872

The drops just need to be randomized more so that it gives other tiers than primarily T5.

Agreed. Imo, it should be dropping every leather from kitten T6.

NSPride <3

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Posted by: Jenstone.6891

Jenstone.6891

One of my guilds went up the back way, missed out on over half of the gauntlet. I was happy with what I got, but I won’t be going there without a group.

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Posted by: DoctorDing.5890

DoctorDing.5890

Any benefit from salvaging with a better salvage kit?

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Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

Any benefit from salvaging with a better salvage kit?

I’ve tried silver and copper o matics. I noticed no real difference, but my sample size was relatively low.

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Posted by: Manasa Devi.7958

Manasa Devi.7958

I went there to get the PoI. That’s the only thing I’ll ever do there, if I feel like completing the area with more characters. It’s not enjoyable content and not worth the effort.

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

Any benefit from salvaging with a better salvage kit?

I’ve tried silver and copper o matics. I noticed no real difference, but my sample size was relatively low.

Wanze did a lot of testing a few years ago.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/crafting/Salvage-Rates-results-on-rarity-of-Kit/first#post3598663

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Posted by: Ookamikun.6472

Ookamikun.6472

Also aren’t the mobs here particularly dangerous that you might as well organize a squad to deal with them?

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Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

Also aren’t the mobs here particularly dangerous that you might as well organize a squad to deal with them?

Many maps are doing just that and advertising via lfg. I suspect that is the intended outcome

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Posted by: Ookamikun.6472

Ookamikun.6472

True enough. I was suspicious that there’s a lack of event pertaining to the centaur zone.

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

The drops just need to be randomized more so that it gives other tiers than primarily T5.

Agreed. Imo, it should be dropping every leather from kitten T6.

A more even distribution of drops through all tiers would be awesome.

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Posted by: TorsoReaper.8530

TorsoReaper.8530

I have to admit I was hoping for an ongoing event kind of like Bitterfrost except the reward would be all different kinds of leather. I farmed the event for probably 45 min and it really didn’t put a dent in the amount of leather I have in the bank. I think it was barely enough to make one spool of elonian cord consdiering you need 4 thick leather to make 1 refined thick leather square.

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Posted by: Paulytnz.7619

Paulytnz.7619

You know I am not sure how this will turn out tbh to deal with the current issues with pricing but I do think that adding drastic things like this to band aid issues is going in the wrong direction.

From what I have seen in the past:

1 – Too much supply of an item – bring in a sink to balance that out some how.
2 – The sinks soon take this to the opposite side of the problem. Now there is too much demand for what is available and the prices sky rocket and surplus is used up.
3 – Create a new farm to address new problem.

It’s just going to be a never ending cycle and still really does not address some of the lower tier versions. They basically have to address EACH and EVERY tier version in their own way to try and balance it out. I think this balancing act is just too much work and will ultimately always fail.

I propose a more simple solution. But before I suggest that let’s ask ourselves what is the desired outcome here? To keep mats at a fair price and having them still seem like a valuable item no matter how low that price gets? Okay so then we have to ask what is a fair price? To me the answer is:

As long as it is the same price as the other mats of the same tier (leather/silk/wood/ores) then that is a fair price. If it is too much higher or lower than these and the stock is out of balance then that is where we have a problem. Now of course it can be argued that Ores/Wood should not factor in there since they are easier to get. I say lets overlook that for the time being and just look at my suggestion:

The idea? It’s simple really, might be so simple that it might actually just work. But oh yes I am sure there will be doubters and naysayers but here goes anyway:

Add an NPC that allows you to trade 1 mat of the same tier for another. So you have far too much Elder wood or Mith Ores? Take to NPC xxx and trade 1 for 1 for what you need. BOOM! Simple.

Now it could be argued that this is what the TP is meant to do but the problem here that fails is the fact that all of these mats are not so easily brought into the game from the player and so there are these imbalances. Lets just have the game CREATE them and provide them and let everyone get on with their game and just gather what they want/like how they like/want and at the same time have ALL of these mats be balanced at the same worth (which should automatically happen in theory – well to me anyway).

Sure it may seem like it will become too easy and that the TP side of this might cause problems but I really don’t know. Would it really cause problems? I think it would be a HUGE gain just in the fact that Anet wont have to be trying to fix it all the time with new sinks/farms. Taking away their time/resources that could be adding new features to the game instead.

So why not give it a shot!? Add it for ALL tiers of these mats and just see how it goes.

Edit: add Foxfire Clusters/Mystic Coins/Silver Doubloons and whatever else needs balancing to their own lists for this to be golden!

Since when did this business of being a hero become being a business?

(edited by Paulytnz.7619)

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

Thanks for the heads up Ayrilana.

Can’t say I am a fan of this idea. It locks the farm behind those who have access to ls3ep4 only and doesn’t benefit the wider playerbase. Better drops and salvage rates were the answer imo.

I don’t get why such a benefit should be accessible to people that don’t have HoT access … what is your logic behind such a thing needing to benefit everyone?

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Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

Thanks for the heads up Ayrilana.

Can’t say I am a fan of this idea. It locks the farm behind those who have access to ls3ep4 only and doesn’t benefit the wider playerbase. Better drops and salvage rates were the answer imo.

I don’t get why such a benefit should be accessible to people that don’t have HoT access … what is your logic behind such a thing needing to benefit everyone?

They are are core crafting mats and should be as accessible as cloth, wood and ore. There is no reason for these core mats to be harder to get for those without ep4 access. If they were HoT mats, prestige mats or equiv then that would make sense, but leather should be on par with the other 3 types in terms of how players are able to obtain them.

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

Thanks for the heads up Ayrilana.

Can’t say I am a fan of this idea. It locks the farm behind those who have access to ls3ep4 only and doesn’t benefit the wider playerbase. Better drops and salvage rates were the answer imo.

I don’t get why such a benefit should be accessible to people that don’t have HoT access … what is your logic behind such a thing needing to benefit everyone?

Because these mats are used by everyone, regardless of whether they own HoT or not.

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

Again, increased supply does benefit (or adversely affect) the broader player base.

If prices on the TP go down due to the farm then even non HoT owners can benefit.

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Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

Again, increased supply does benefit (or adversely affect) the broader player base.

If prices on the TP go down due to the farm then even non HoT owners can benefit.

Yes it does and I am not disputing that at all, but that still does not balance acquistion out. Ore, wood and cloth benefit from this, plus easier to obtain by direct farming across multiple sources without restriction of such gating. This solution does not put leather on an equal footing with the other 3 types.

If the leather farming was in more accessible areas, it would have achieved that better, altho I maintain better leather salvage rates would be a better solution.

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

Again, increased supply does benefit (or adversely affect) the broader player base.

If prices on the TP go down due to the farm then even non HoT owners can benefit.

Yes it does and I am not disputing that at all, but that still does not balance acquistion out. Ore, wood and cloth benefit from this, plus easier to obtain by direct farming across multiple sources without restriction of such gating. This solution does not put leather on an equal footing with the other 3 types.

If the leather farming was in more accessible areas, it would have achieved that better, altho I maintain better leather salvage rates would be a better solution.

Understood. My comments were more meant for the posts claiming that the non HoT player base would not benefit from the farm.

It seems to me that Anet, taking away the multiloot exploity farm, wanted to replace it with something less exploity which targeting a section of the market that they felt needed attention-something other than ectos. Something group oriented as was ML.

As to equality of means of acquisition to other mats…Im not sure that such is truly necessary as long as supply increases to sufficiently reduce prices.

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Posted by: Ider.1276

Ider.1276

Its a part of the base game, it should be farmable in the base game. Period. Putting this farm in LS episode is a very bad idea. 2 months later people will move to another LS map and lake Doric will be available only for gems, and it will be as dead as Bloodstone Fen now (yeh, it is so dead they had to nerf most of the map events this patch).

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Posted by: Fremtid.3528

Fremtid.3528

forget the trading post price, is it possible to forge the leather you want with the leather you get? people get so hung up on the trading post…it is possible to grind mats if you really want them.

This is literally besides the point. Anet said they wanted to lower the price of t6 the farm doesnt achieve that goal. Forging the t6 doesn’t achieve that goal. Especially not when purchasing the overpriced t6 off the trading post is cheaper than forging them. Quit distracting from the point.

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Posted by: Neural.1824

Neural.1824

The farm is fizzling out before it even got started. The “low” prices of leather (due in part to the announcement of the farm), coupled with the rather tame drops (from the farm) just isn’t holding players’ interests. U net approximately 3-4 gold worth of leather from an hour of farming ; general opinion is that it ain’t worth the time.

I predicted not long after the announcement was made that the new “leather farm” would still be RNG based and that the lack of having a sure source for a given tier material would simply cause players to go “meh” and move on.

T6 leather is not a guaranteed drop. T2, T3, and T4 are the next in line when it comes to overall price, but if people were to use the leather farm to get T6 leather, we’d be back to seeing the lower tiers at vendor level before T6 was brought down at all.

Where are my gem sales? I want gem sales! Nerf EVERYTHING!

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Posted by: Xenon.4537

Xenon.4537

All anet needs to do is adjust the loot tables a little to bring up the leathers in question.

As for how hard it is to survive here, I have no doubt the community will find a way. Maybe a thief duo with stealth skills? I’m pretty sure you could easily perma stealth and then it’s no problem.

I think anet figured someone would put on a commander tag and lead 100 guardians in there with loot staff and perma protection making you face tank the damage. Has anyone actually made a serious attempt to efficiently farm this or is it just a bunch of solo people getting rekt and giving up?

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Posted by: abaddon.3290

abaddon.3290

salvaged 150 of them and only got 12 hard leather.

im bad at sarcasm

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Posted by: TorsoReaper.8530

TorsoReaper.8530

Ran the leather farm for another hour today. I can say definitively, if they don’t fix the drop rates from salvaging, nobody will be here in a few weeks once the novelty wears off. We’ll all be back at SW because it will be more efficient to just farm SW and buy higher priced leather and whatever they were hoping to accomplish will be wasted effort.

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Posted by: JTGuevara.9018

JTGuevara.9018

This should’ve been a group or meta event. I gotta WAIT for the leather train to show up, I can’t just go catch it or I’ll get shish-kacob’d?

If you’re going to have a group farm, SAY SO. Let players know.

Ex: (Group Event) Drive Centaurs Out

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Posted by: fishball.7204

fishball.7204

Yep this farm is atrocious, the amount you get is not worth it at all for the effort and returns are even worse than farmin Laby when ToT bags tanked which speaks a lot.

I don’t understand why they made it RNG and T5 majority when they specifically said they wanted us to have a NON RNG WAY to farm T6 leather. This isn’t NON RNG.

This is just like bloodstone fen farming the hides and stuff which is probably better right now tbh.

FOR THE GREEEEEEEEEEEEN

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Posted by: Paulytnz.7619

Paulytnz.7619

The first mistake they made was calling it a “farm”. The second was the whole thing lol. Dedicate a large chunk of a piece of a new map for people to “farm” when we have diminished returns, really? SMH! Doh.

Sure yes there are the chests but still……it just goes against a big part of their philosophy and basic game design. It was never going to end well this one….

Do like I say, add an exchange system into the game and be done with it once and for all.

Then you can start working on things we have been asking for – for YEARS. Hello build templates and such anyone?

Since when did this business of being a hero become being a business?

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Posted by: Sir Alymer.3406

Sir Alymer.3406

I actually liked the salvageable items from the new maps gotten as event rewards. Why ANet didn’t just fix the salvage rates for kitten leather from those and tone down the hardened leather resources needed to craft things is beyond me.

The fix, in my eyes and with my limited information, was simple; adjust the salvage rates and crafting needs to find a happy medium.

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Posted by: aerial.7021

aerial.7021

Did leather “farm” for an hour.
- Also, good luck getting a group that’s willing to do it when the above happens.

It could be my server I don’t really know (see below tag), but that looks like it’s already happened, there is barely any commanders running around let alone mentors but then most of the game feels that way to me.

Server: Gate of Madness

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Posted by: DoctorDing.5890

DoctorDing.5890

The leather farm zerg thing was handy for getting to that POI at the top but the returns from the actual farming were not good enough for me to want to do it again. Even at the current prices it is quicker to farm gold and buy the leather than farm the leather itself. I can’t really see leather farming becoming a big thing unless prices go up. It seems strange to have added that whole area just for leather farming. When I first got there I assumed it would be part of the storyline (sneak/disguise/whatever).

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Posted by: TorsoReaper.8530

TorsoReaper.8530

I actually liked the salvageable items from the new maps gotten as event rewards. Why ANet didn’t just fix the salvage rates for kitten leather from those and tone down the hardened leather resources needed to craft things is beyond me.

The fix, in my eyes and with my limited information, was simple; adjust the salvage rates and crafting needs to find a happy medium.

Why do it the easy way? This patch makes me wonder if Colin came back to anet

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Posted by: Lite Ning Strike.5203

Lite Ning Strike.5203

I actually liked the salvageable items from the new maps gotten as event rewards. Why ANet didn’t just fix the salvage rates for kitten leather from those and tone down the hardened leather resources needed to craft things is beyond me.

The fix, in my eyes and with my limited information, was simple; adjust the salvage rates and crafting needs to find a happy medium.

Why do it the easy way? This patch makes me wonder if Colin came back to anet

LOL I made the same comment on day one to my Guildies. Welcome back Colin!!!!

The First and Only Blaq Sheep

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Posted by: mulzi.8273

mulzi.8273

This may be a stupid question, but rather than all these fancy farms and whatnot, why not tweak the recipe to require, say, 3 leather rather than 4? What does it take more leather to craft the leather upgrade than it takes to craft a bolt of silk?

I seem to recall this same exact conversation a couple of years about, but about silk.

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Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

128 hides got me 9 hardened leather. Def not worth the time investment for the t6 leather

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

This may be a stupid question, but rather than all these fancy farms and whatnot, why not tweak the recipe to require, say, 3 leather rather than 4? What does it take more leather to craft the leather upgrade than it takes to craft a bolt of silk?

I seem to recall this same exact conversation a couple of years about, but about silk.

Anet actually answered this question recently. They said that changing the recipes would create a static drop in demand that is extremely unlikely to balance itself out in the long run (case in point, leather: they created a huge static increase in demand with HoT and it was unable to balance itself out, hence the implementation of the new farm). Personally, I still feel as if the better response would have been to change the recipes (either refinement or recipes for patches) to require less leather. That would undo part of the static increase in demand that HoT brought, which should have allowed leather to be able to balance itself out in the long run. But ANet disagreed with me, so we got a new farm instead.

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Posted by: Djinn.9245

Djinn.9245

Thanks for the heads up Ayrilana.

Can’t say I am a fan of this idea. It locks the farm behind those who have access to ls3ep4 only and doesn’t benefit the wider playerbase. Better drops and salvage rates were the answer imo.

I don’t get why such a benefit should be accessible to people that don’t have HoT access … what is your logic behind such a thing needing to benefit everyone?

What do you mean by “benefit”? A crafting ingredient is a “benefit”? I guess they should start locking wood, metal, and cloth behind group events too?

it’s this luck based mystic toilet that we’re all so sick of flushing our money down. -Salamol

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Posted by: Djinn.9245

Djinn.9245

This may be a stupid question, but rather than all these fancy farms and whatnot, why not tweak the recipe to require, say, 3 leather rather than 4? What does it take more leather to craft the leather upgrade than it takes to craft a bolt of silk?

I seem to recall this same exact conversation a couple of years about, but about silk.

Not a stupid question. I can’t begin to imagine why the devs purposefully created GW2 to have metal, wood, and cooking nodes (give the ingredient every time) but not leather and cloth nodes. And in addition they purposefully decided to have leather be the least available ingredient.

This is entirely of their making and in their control. And this is not a good solution.

it’s this luck based mystic toilet that we’re all so sick of flushing our money down. -Salamol

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

Thanks for the heads up Ayrilana.

Can’t say I am a fan of this idea. It locks the farm behind those who have access to ls3ep4 only and doesn’t benefit the wider playerbase. Better drops and salvage rates were the answer imo.

I don’t get why such a benefit should be accessible to people that don’t have HoT access … what is your logic behind such a thing needing to benefit everyone?

What percentage of the playerbase is still holding out on purchasing the expansion? I can’t see Anet trying to please both sets of players and especially if one is significantly smaller than the other. Eventually they’ll have to look forward rather than backward.

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Posted by: Justine.6351

Justine.6351

forget the trading post price, is it possible to forge the leather you want with the leather you get? people get so hung up on the trading post…it is possible to grind mats if you really want them.

This is literally besides the point. Anet said they wanted to lower the price of t6 the farm doesnt achieve that goal. Forging the t6 doesn’t achieve that goal. Especially not when purchasing the overpriced t6 off the trading post is cheaper than forging them. Quit distracting from the point.

You are right,

Ohwell I guess I will just keep enjoying my 5 full ascended toons that were impossible to afford because leather too expensive.

Looks at 40+gold worth of t6 leather I’ve gotten from wvw over past month in bank and shrugs cause no use

If anyone needs it just post here and I mail it.

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Posted by: Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

This may be a stupid question, but rather than all these fancy farms and whatnot, why not tweak the recipe to require, say, 3 leather rather than 4? What does it take more leather to craft the leather upgrade than it takes to craft a bolt of silk?

I seem to recall this same exact conversation a couple of years about, but about silk.

Anet actually answered this question recently. They said that changing the recipes would create a static drop in demand that is extremely unlikely to balance itself out in the long run (case in point, leather: they created a huge static increase in demand with HoT and it was unable to balance itself out, hence the implementation of the new farm). Personally, I still feel as if the better response would have been to change the recipes (either refinement or recipes for patches) to require less leather. That would undo part of the static increase in demand that HoT brought, which should have allowed leather to be able to balance itself out in the long run. But ANet disagreed with me, so we got a new farm instead.

The 4:1 for T5 leather is irritating, but I still find my production isn’t too bad. I just keep a lot on hand in case they do drop it to 3:1 or (haha never happening) 2:1 again.

At the same time, T6 went from 2:1 to 3:1, which was overkill. And it became required for all the armor patches, so of course it was due to shoot up out of control, since it is a rarer material. That is the problem we needed to fix.

andallthet2throught4tooobviously

Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632

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Posted by: Memoranda.9386

Memoranda.9386

If anyone needs it just post here and I mail it.

I mean, not gonna turn it down if you’re serious. Hahah.

But re: The leather farm was really a disappointment as far as T6 goes. I think most players are already drowning in T5 leather. I know I sell a stack every few days just because I don’t need it, and if I ever did it’s cheap enough to buy en masse.

All the farm did was make it easier to acquire T5 to MF to T6 as an added option. Doesn’t seem to truly address the ongoing problem of leather being in such high demand with so few reliable methods of acquisition. i.e., “easy to get”

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Posted by: Shivan.9438

Shivan.9438

I think this is a good time to post what I’ve said over the years.

Supply and demand does not work when resources are infinite. Supply and demand is a model that works when resources are limited. When resources are low, demand creates an increase in price. When supply is plentiful, prices go down.

But that is not the case when resources are not finite and the economy is player controlled. And here’s why:

As long as mobs are spawning, bosses are spawning, loot is dropping, then the supply is not finite. They’re not limited. Thus prices should never go up. The reason prices are high is because people are trying to bank on mats that are used on a hyped piece of armor or weapon. It’s not that mats are limited, nor are there a low amount, just look at the amount of mats in the TP. At no point. NO POINT can every single mat of a given type be bought out to create a high price for high demand. There are plenty of mats. This is nothing more than player greed, NOT SUPPLY AND DEMAND. Even if every mat of a specific type was bought out and the TP drained, there wouldn’t be a crisis for long as there are players still killing, getting loot and listing mats on the TP.

Another reason why prices are so high is that Anet dun goofed when it comes to the amount of mats you need. I power leveled tailoring on my necro and actually bought the mats needed to make my ascended gear for roughly 150-200 gold per piece of gear. How hard is it to make that kind of gold? It’s stupidly easy, not hard at all. But if you look at the differences between Tailoring, Leatherworking and Armor Smithing, you need a ludicrous amount more of leather or ore than you do cloth. That’s Anet’s mistake, by not balancing what you need.

The next reason why mats are high goes back to this stupid idea of supply and demand in an environment where supplies are always within reach. If players would stop undercutting and list for more, the economy would do quite well and people would actually make money, from selling mats to farming them. Here’s why:

If prices were listed for even a copper more rather than a copper less, those that vested in the TP would make money. Prices would go up, yes. But they would reach a point where players would not pay for those mats and go farm for them, causing prices to drop and reach a point where prices were acceptable and people would go back to buying mats on the TP. Another things that would help the economy is to stop the rush for ascended gear. Ascended gear and legendaries are supposed to be culmination of months, perhaps a year or more’s worth of work. But since Anet tested raids in Ascended gear, it’s supposed to be the only way you can raid, despite raids being completed in exos.

We didn’t need a new leather farm, we just needed drop rates and patterns adjusted in the existing world. That excuse about not enough time and resources is a joke. It takes less time to change a number rather than make a new map, put in the new mobs, make the damage stupidly overpowered and then create a back way in, just in case you can’t make the gauntlet run.

(edited by Shivan.9438)

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Posted by: TorsoReaper.8530

TorsoReaper.8530

I think this is a good time to post what I’ve said over the years.
Supply and demand does not work when resources are infinite. Supply and demand is a model that works when resources are limited. When resources are low, demand creates an increase in price. When supply is plentiful, prices go down.
But that is not the case when resources are not finite and the economy is player controlled. And here’s why:
As long as mobs are spawning, bosses are spawning, loot is dropping, then the supply is not finite. They’re not limited. Thus prices should never go up. The reason prices are high is because people are trying to bank on mats that are used on a hyped piece of armor or weapon. It’s not that mats are limited, nor are there a low amount, just look at the amount of mats in the TP. At no point. NO POINT can every single mat of a given type be bought out to create a high price for high demand. There are plenty of mats. This is nothing more than player greed, NOT SUPPLY AND DEMAND. Even if every mat of a specific type was bought out and the TP drained, there wouldn’t be a crisis for long as there are players still killing, getting loot and listing mats on the TP.

Everything is always limited because there is a limited number of people playing this game over a limited amount of time with a limited number of boss spawns. In some cases, drops are also time gated which is another limit. Just because things are not physically limited ie: real world timber vs in game virtual trees, does not mean there is an actual unlimited amount of ancient wood that can be produced.

The next reason why mats are high goes back to this stupid idea of supply and demand in an environment where supplies are always within reach. If players would stop undercutting and list for more, the economy would do quite well and people would actually make money, from selling mats to farming them.

People undercutting each other is what makes an “efficient market”. There is an actual financial theorem that if there is any arbitrage to be made, people will exploit that arbitrage to the point that it doesn’t exist.

Here’s why:
If prices were listed for even a copper more rather than a copper less, those that vested in the TP would make money. Prices would go up, yes. But they would reach a point where players would not pay for those mats and go farm for them, causing prices to drop and reach a point where prices were acceptable and people would go back to buying mats on the TP.

You just undermined your own point

Another things that would help the economy is to stop the rush for ascended gear. Ascended gear and legendaries are supposed to be culmination of months, perhaps a year or more’s worth of work. But since Anet tested raids in Ascended gear, it’s supposed to be the only way you can raid, despite raids being completed in exos.

It could also be argued the rush for ascended gear is because there isn’t really an “End game” except for high level fractals which REQUIRE ascended or to your point raids which people THINK requires ascended. Either way, you can’t just artificially demand people stop wanting ascended gear. How would you even accomplish this?

We didn’t need a new leather farm, we just needed drop rates and patterns adjusted in the existing world. That excuse about not enough time and resources is a joke. It takes less time to change a number rather than make a new map, put in the new mobs, make the damage stupidly overpowered and then create a back way in, just in case you can’t make the gauntlet run.

This is the one point where I 100% agree with you. Elonian Leather and Spool of Cord need to get their recipes adjusted. That would have fixed everything. If Anet was worried about an economic crash, just reduce each leather input by 1 every month until the leather prices reach the desired price. Very easy, very simple.

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Posted by: Ider.1276

Ider.1276

Supply and demand does not work when resources are infinite. Supply and demand is a model that works when resources are limited. When resources are low, demand creates an increase in price. When supply is plentiful, prices go down.

But that is not the case when resources are not finite and the economy is player controlled.

I agree with you that we don’t need another farm and better if we had good salvage rates. But you are fundamentally wrong in your statement. The resorces in GW2 are finite, as they are limited by player’s time. Real world example: you are a lumberjack in Alaska/Siberia with more trees around you can chop is ten thousand years. The tree supply is unlimited, but the lumber outcome is limited by yours working time. And time is a most valuable and limited resorse of them all. So, you are wrong, and supply/demand mechanic works well in GW2. The bad thing is that Anet already directly interveened this mechanic when they rised hardened leather demand in recipes and now they are trying to fix it with some vague indirect methods because they are afraid to admite their mistakes.

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Posted by: Neural.1824

Neural.1824

GW2 is approaching the 5 year mark (this summer). The entire team has delivered many episodes of the Living Story and an expansion. Yet some things seem no better than years back.
It is as if the developers at Anet do not understand how their own RNG encumbered loot system works.
If you lock something like leather behind RNG and expect players to take advantage of it…. the results are going to go wrong in all number of ways.
If the players jump on it and farm farm farm… sure, T6 leather might come down in price, but there is going to be a glut of all the other tier types, knocking them down to vendor prices (which they made drastic changes to avoid..that caused the T6 problem, because the drops are RNG based…and.. yeah.)
If the players don’t jump on it and farm, it doesn’t fix the problem the players had in the first place, and you’ve wasted a ton of dev time, on top of making yourselves look foolish to the players that want a change.
This is the folly of using RNG as a way of making things scarce.
Take Skittles as an example. Players are getting Skittles dumped into a huge bowl (TP), but only the red ones are desired (not being a Skittle-ist, just an example here).
So what does Anet do? Well, whomever it is that makes the decisions has decided that the only way to give the players more red Skittles….is to add another source of… more random Skittles. The bowl simply gets even more full, and red Skittles are just as uncommon. No-one is going to go rushing to the new source to waste their time and energy to obtain a scant amount of red ones when the rate is no different from anywhere else in game.

In the long run, I find it impossible to believe that Mike, John, and the others didn’t seed this. The “leather farm” is just more of the same things: Scarcity and RNG. They merely packaged it in a manner that made it sound like it had more red Skittles.

On a similar note, as more evidence, the new achievement that was added which requires an event to fail. They have known for 2 years at least that this causes player hostility and toxicity in the community, yet here we are again.. they are doing the same old thing, regardless of how many times the players have told them it is a problem.

Again, they aren’t stupid. They don’t ignore the forums. So the only conclusion I can come to here, in both the above situations, is that they simply do not care to change their methods, and it’s all just theater to keep the players playing and paying.

Where are my gem sales? I want gem sales! Nerf EVERYTHING!

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

Thanks for the heads up Ayrilana.

Can’t say I am a fan of this idea. It locks the farm behind those who have access to ls3ep4 only and doesn’t benefit the wider playerbase. Better drops and salvage rates were the answer imo.

I don’t get why such a benefit should be accessible to people that don’t have HoT access … what is your logic behind such a thing needing to benefit everyone?

They are are core crafting mats and should be as accessible as cloth, wood and ore. There is no reason for these core mats to be harder to get for those without ep4 access. If they were HoT mats, prestige mats or equiv then that would make sense, but leather should be on par with the other 3 types in terms of how players are able to obtain them.

That’s a fallacy … they should be as hard as Anet makes them. There is no reasoning you can invent to change that. Regardless, you can farm leather if you don’t have HoT, so that argument makes no sense anyways. Centaurs drop leather in Tyria, just like they do in Doric Lake. If you want more leather from your kills, then target the correct mobs.

GW2 is approaching the 5 year mark (this summer). The entire team has delivered many episodes of the Living Story and an expansion. Yet some things seem no better than years back.
It is as if the developers at Anet do not understand how their own RNG encumbered loot system works.

That’s a rather cherry-picked conclusion. I could as easily conclude that it’s as if the developers at Anet completely understand how their RNG loot system works. The way you present your post, it seems you believe that the system works badly and that Anet can’t see that. You completely excluded the idea that it works exactly as Anet intends it to and that you’re idea of what is bad or good doesn’t really play into how Anet designs the game.

(edited by Obtena.7952)