Leather Farm

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Posted by: Frenchtoastersticks.8061

Frenchtoastersticks.8061

I’m not sure what value that adds to the discussion … Anet can’t adjust content to ensure every player’s personal preference is taken into account so everyone will like everything they do. Liking farming doesn’t automatically mean you will like one specific instance just because it’s for farming.

The point was more than the leather farm is a waste of time even if you actually enjoy it.

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

My point is that isn’t a universal truth for every player, so it’s rather worthless as a point to discuss if we are attempting to have an objective discussion. If you enjoy that farm, then you get much more than mats from doing that content. If you don’t enjoy it, nothing says you have to do it. As people already pointed out .. it’s not the only source of leather. It’s simply an additional option for people who want something different. You guys are reading way too much into what you think it should be and not enough into what Anet intended it to be.

(edited by Obtena.7952)

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Posted by: Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

…what Anet intended it to be.

We don’t get much about the “intent” beyond:

“challenging”
It’s not challenging, it’s just punishing. It’s zerg content. Solo = suicide, Zerg = 1.1111*10^4.

“farm”
Usually, the point of farming something is the targeted acquisition of a material, with an expectation of gains above other methods. So far as I understand it, people are reporting better gains by not doing this “farm” than by waiting for a group to show up and flailing away at it for a few minutes before boredom or diminishing returns kick in. Also, the rewards are still far too RNG-driven to even be considered a “farm”. I’d have better luck doing events for karma and buying some Crab Grabbin’ Gloves, because the RNG is focused on bloating T5 drops over everything else.

So, by looking at the only two stated “intents,” we can only conclude that it missed the mark on both criteria. 0 / 2 usually means something failed.

Now, jury’s still out on whether this will, in the end, benefit the players beyond those who perceive Fallen Watchtower to not be a waste of time, and I’m still waiting for evidence of that.

Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

Again, those are subjective assessments. For some people it is indeed challenging. The fact is that you can go there for a focused session of getting leather … Frankly, I think your definition of farm is pretty narrow. I’ve played plenty of MMO’s where the farms were not THE best place to earn the materials because of player limits, etc… They were still farms though. Besides, who decides what a farm is in GW2? It’s not you, it’s Anet. If that’s not suitable to you, don’t do it … go elsewhere if you think it’s not a proper ‘farm’. It’s really quite irrelevant what you want to call it. Anet made no expectation to any player it would be the BEST place to earn leather. That would in fact, be a stupid approach for them, as I’ve already explained why in previous posts.

By using your definition, the best way to ‘gain’ anything in this game is to whip out the CC and purchase gems, so by the very nature of the game, no farm can exist. I think your definition needs an update so it’s not based on tired ideas of how MMO’s should work; it’s not applicable to the GW2 business model.

(edited by Obtena.7952)

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Posted by: Drakz.7051

Drakz.7051

It just seems like they are trying to get people onto their new maps more than trying to come up with a good solution to problems.

Makes me think that if they have to do stuff like this to push people into doing stuff then it really isn’t something good.

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Posted by: TorsoReaper.8530

TorsoReaper.8530

Again, those are subjective assessments. For some people it is indeed challenging. The fact is that you can go there for a focused session of getting leather … Frankly, I think your definition of farm is pretty narrow. I’ve played plenty of MMO’s where the farms were not THE best place to earn the materials because of player limits, etc… They were still farms though. Besides, who decides what a farm is in GW2? It’s not you, it’s Anet. If that’s not suitable to you, don’t do it … go elsewhere if you think it’s not a proper ‘farm’. It’s really quite irrelevant what you want to call it. Anet made no expectation to any player it would be the BEST place to earn leather. That would in fact, be a stupid approach for them, as I’ve already explained why in previous posts.

By using your definition, the best way to ‘gain’ anything in this game is to whip out the CC and purchase gems, so by the very nature of the game, no farm can exist. I think your definition needs an update so it’s not based on tired ideas of how MMO’s should work; it’s not applicable to the GW2 business model.

So you’re saying Anet spent maybe a hundred or more man hours to create an area that doesn’t solve any problems and will be empty within a few weeks of release? I highly doubt it. I think they had great intentions when they built it and had no idea how badly it would fail. And it is by any measure a failure. I’m in NA and in prime time I don’t see anyone advertise in LFG anymore. Leather prices are back to pre-patch levels. Single people can’t even go there so it’s not like trees or ore where a single person can farm what they need personally. I can’t think of a single way this isn’t a complete and utter failure.

The fact that Anet wasted resources on this makes it an even bigger debacle because those are resources that could have gone to basically anything else and that random thing would probably have a bigger impact than this leather “farm”. They should have saved themselves the time and money and just had someone reduce the refinement ratios. They could have had an intern make the changes in 15 minutes.

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Posted by: Blaeys.3102

Blaeys.3102

I think people are overanalyzing this.

The centaur hill is a fun little thing to do as a guild (or group you find on the map or lfg) with a half way decent open world boss at the top.

The reward isn’t the end all be all of game design or profitability, but it at least gives you something for doing some fun and semi group oriented.

It really isn’t more than that.

As an aside – it would make a decent new instanced guild challenge mission, imo (which we DESPARATELY NEED right now). Given the comments in this thread, maybe it would have been better if it had been a guild mission and they had dealt with the leather issue in another way.

(edited by Blaeys.3102)

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

Again, those are subjective assessments. For some people it is indeed challenging. The fact is that you can go there for a focused session of getting leather … Frankly, I think your definition of farm is pretty narrow. I’ve played plenty of MMO’s where the farms were not THE best place to earn the materials because of player limits, etc… They were still farms though. Besides, who decides what a farm is in GW2? It’s not you, it’s Anet. If that’s not suitable to you, don’t do it … go elsewhere if you think it’s not a proper ‘farm’. It’s really quite irrelevant what you want to call it. Anet made no expectation to any player it would be the BEST place to earn leather. That would in fact, be a stupid approach for them, as I’ve already explained why in previous posts.

By using your definition, the best way to ‘gain’ anything in this game is to whip out the CC and purchase gems, so by the very nature of the game, no farm can exist. I think your definition needs an update so it’s not based on tired ideas of how MMO’s should work; it’s not applicable to the GW2 business model.

So you’re saying Anet spent maybe a hundred or more man hours to create an area that doesn’t solve any problems and will be empty within a few weeks of release?

They don’t solve any of your problems perhaps. Don’t assume what you think is truth for everyone.

(edited by Obtena.7952)

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Posted by: TorsoReaper.8530

TorsoReaper.8530

They don’t solve any of your problems perhaps. Don’t assume what you think is truth for everyone.

LOL, name one thing this does successfully

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Posted by: Ider.1276

Ider.1276

LOL, name one thing this does successfully

Well, it successfully kittened of like majority of the players. Starting from casuals, who can’t just grab that PoI at the top, and ending with everybody else, who wanted something to compencate obnoxious hardened leather requerments and drop rates. I guess the only one player who enjoyed that farm was Obtena.

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Posted by: TorsoReaper.8530

TorsoReaper.8530

LOL, name one thing this does successfully

Well, it successfully kittened of like majority of the players. Starting from casuals, who can’t just grab that PoI at the top, and ending with everybody else, who wanted something to compencate obnoxious hardened leather requerments and drop rates. I guess the only one player who enjoyed that farm was Obtena.

LOL… at least you were able to name one thing it did successfully. =D

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Posted by: Fremtid.3528

Fremtid.3528

…what Anet intended it to be.

We don’t get much about the “intent” beyond:

“challenging”
It’s not challenging, it’s just punishing. It’s zerg content. Solo = suicide, Zerg = 1.1111*10^4.

“farm”
Usually, the point of farming something is the targeted acquisition of a material, with an expectation of gains above other methods. So far as I understand it, people are reporting better gains by not doing this “farm” than by waiting for a group to show up and flailing away at it for a few minutes before boredom or diminishing returns kick in. Also, the rewards are still far too RNG-driven to even be considered a “farm”. I’d have better luck doing events for karma and buying some Crab Grabbin’ Gloves, because the RNG is focused on bloating T5 drops over everything else.

So, by looking at the only two stated “intents,” we can only conclude that it missed the mark on both criteria. 0 / 2 usually means something failed.

Now, jury’s still out on whether this will, in the end, benefit the players beyond those who perceive Fallen Watchtower to not be a waste of time, and I’m still waiting for evidence of that.

i lol’d at crab grabbing gloves coz i know exactly what you mean and i feel you.

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Posted by: Tumult.2578

Tumult.2578

I consider the leather farm as successful at encouraging free players to buy the game and Hot. If they didn’t just leave.
I also consider it successful in the same way for paid accounts without Hot. If they didn’t just leave.
It has been successful at distracting posters and readers from the lost AB multi-map.
If they didn’t just leave.
And, it is successful at providing another method of farming leather for players who already had additional ways in Hot.

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Posted by: Hyper Cutter.9376

Hyper Cutter.9376

They don’t solve any of your problems perhaps. Don’t assume what you think is truth for everyone.

They created an explicit area to farm leather that is objectively not good for farming leather, that’s almost laughably incompetent.

(edited by Hyper Cutter.9376)

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

I’m not sure what value that adds to the discussion … Anet can’t adjust content to ensure every player’s personal preference is taken into account so everyone will like everything they do. Liking farming doesn’t automatically mean you will like one specific instance just because it’s for farming.

The point was more than the leather farm is a waste of time even if you actually enjoy it.

I am not sure that I understand this point.

GW2 is a game. It exists to entertain. To provide enjoyment. And to make money of course. If you are enjoying an aspect of the game, meaning that it is contrubuting to tbe fulfillment of the game’s purpose, how is it a waste of time?

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

I’m not a fan of the farm. I don’t think its a surprise to anyone that I would have preferred that the recipes get adjusted instead of just adding another source of leather. That said I disagree with people who are saying that this was incompetence on ANet’s part.

I don’t think this was incompetence so much as Anet is being way too careful with shaking up the economy. They’ve seen what happened with HoT when they jumped the gun and were far too free with manipulating the economy, so they dialed it way back. And then in April we saw the same thing with resonating silvers. Way too much interference. So Anet learned that dialing it back and manipulating it more slowly is a much better approach (which it is).

They have slowly been altering leather and Mystic Coins (but I think they are happy with MC now) for months, and they obviously didn’t want to make too drastic of a change to leather with this farm. So they set the dials incorrectly. Did they make a mistake? Yes, absolutely. I don’t think that this screams incompetence though, like a lot of people in this thread do.

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

I rather enjoyed the ‘leather farm’. It was easy, and fun to go with a group up to the top. I got leather; exactly as ArenaNet said I would. I’m guessing the group I went with were willing to do it, as well, as the group stayed for several runs.

Thus, I guess not everyone hates it.

Perhaps, it will be changed; perhaps not. /shrug

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Posted by: Frenchtoastersticks.8061

Frenchtoastersticks.8061

I’m not sure what value that adds to the discussion … Anet can’t adjust content to ensure every player’s personal preference is taken into account so everyone will like everything they do. Liking farming doesn’t automatically mean you will like one specific instance just because it’s for farming.

The point was more than the leather farm is a waste of time even if you actually enjoy it.

I am not sure that I understand this point.

GW2 is a game. It exists to entertain. To provide enjoyment. And to make money of course. If you are enjoying an aspect of the game, meaning that it is contrubuting to tbe fulfillment of the game’s purpose, how is it a waste of time?

sorry, I meant even if you actually enjoy farming. since if you enjoy zerg farming in general, I cant come up with any good reason to do that one specifically over other ones that have a better gain, including for leather.

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Posted by: Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

I’m not a fan of the farm. I don’t think its a surprise to anyone that I would have preferred that the recipes get adjusted instead of just adding another source of leather. That said I disagree with people who are saying that this was incompetence on ANet’s part.

I don’t think this was incompetence so much as Anet is being way too careful with shaking up the economy. They’ve seen what happened with HoT when they jumped the gun and were far too free with manipulating the economy, so they dialed it way back. And then in April we saw the same thing with resonating silvers. Way too much interference. So Anet learned that dialing it back and manipulating it more slowly is a much better approach (which it is).

They have slowly been altering leather and Mystic Coins (but I think they are happy with MC now) for months, and they obviously didn’t want to make too drastic of a change to leather with this farm. So they set the dials incorrectly. Did they make a mistake? Yes, absolutely. I don’t think that this screams incompetence though, like a lot of people in this thread do.

I appreciate the reasoned response, OriOri.

There’s actually a very decent ‘quick fix’ to the farm: Change the loot tables to include less T5 leather.

That’s it.
That’s the solution.

The perceived “worth” of the farm would be obvious, because it would give more T2346 leather, which is what we wanted direct farming for in the first place. I don’t mind the RNG part of the salvage, but I don’t appreciate blowing T5 smoke up my tailpipe and claiming it’s a “good farm”.

Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632

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Posted by: TorsoReaper.8530

TorsoReaper.8530

I’m not a fan of the farm. I don’t think its a surprise to anyone that I would have preferred that the recipes get adjusted instead of just adding another source of leather. That said I disagree with people who are saying that this was incompetence on ANet’s part.

I don’t think this was incompetence so much as Anet is being way too careful with shaking up the economy. They’ve seen what happened with HoT when they jumped the gun and were far too free with manipulating the economy, so they dialed it way back. And then in April we saw the same thing with resonating silvers. Way too much interference. So Anet learned that dialing it back and manipulating it more slowly is a much better approach (which it is).

They have slowly been altering leather and Mystic Coins (but I think they are happy with MC now) for months, and they obviously didn’t want to make too drastic of a change to leather with this farm. So they set the dials incorrectly. Did they make a mistake? Yes, absolutely. I don’t think that this screams incompetence though, like a lot of people in this thread do.

I totally understand what you’re saying and as someone who has played practically since launch, I do remember all the wild swings in different materials. I can also appreciate your point that maybe it’s not incompetence but “reluctance” to make changes.

If the leather farm didn’t cost them anything to produce, I would probably agree with your assessment. The reason I’m arguing it’s incompetence is that they could have very slowly fixed the leather problem by simply adjusting salvage tables by a few percent a week. It would be a slow change and would have cost hours of man power instead of days. Otherwise, though more aggressive, they could have taken every leather refinement recipe down by 1 input. Just 1. Again, very limited input cost by Anet and large output to the community. Instead they worked hard to make a big input that had a negligible effect.

So really I think we’re at a semantic argument because I agree with all your points, I just come up with a different adjective.

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Posted by: Xenesis.6389

Xenesis.6389

It’s been four years and people still haven’t figured out that Anet does not know how to do proper drops/rewards?

Funny how they spent years trying to break farms that came up and using diminishing returns, and now purposely introduce a terrible farm for mats, lol.

Another derailing post. ^^
North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed.
“Game over man, Game Over!” – RIP Bill

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Posted by: OneYenShort.3189

OneYenShort.3189

They don’t solve any of your problems perhaps. Don’t assume what you think is truth for everyone.

They created an explicit area to farm leather that is objectively not good for farming leather, that’s almost laughably incompetent.

I honestly no longer think it is incompetence.

Given some of the design changes (base Tyria compared to HoT), I find it harder and harder to believe that it is incompetence, but a deliberate implementation of ANET vs Players.

If you ever role play (table top games.) you may have experienced the mindset that can happen of GMs vs Players, aka them vs us. Most of the time that is not very productive for either side.

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Posted by: TorsoReaper.8530

TorsoReaper.8530

If you ever role play (table top games.) you may have experienced the mindset that can happen of GMs vs Players, aka them vs us. Most of the time that is not very productive for either side.

That’s a really interesting line of thought I didn’t even consider; that is more plausible than “incompetence”…

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Posted by: Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

If you ever role play (table top games.) you may have experienced the mindset that can happen of GMs vs Players, aka them vs us. Most of the time that is not very productive for either side.

That’s a really interesting line of thought I didn’t even consider; that is more plausible than “incompetence”…

Considering that mindset already seems to already have seeped into jumping puzzle designs and “challenging” encounter design, I suspect the “stick it to the players” camp is growing. :\

Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

They don’t solve any of your problems perhaps. Don’t assume what you think is truth for everyone.

They created an explicit area to farm leather that is objectively not good for farming leather, that’s almost laughably incompetent.

I honestly no longer think it is incompetence.

Given some of the design changes (base Tyria compared to HoT), I find it harder and harder to believe that it is incompetence, but a deliberate implementation of ANET vs Players.

If you ever role play (table top games.) you may have experienced the mindset that can happen of GMs vs Players, aka them vs us. Most of the time that is not very productive for either side.

GW2 is not a tabletop roleplaying game. The Devs gain nothing out of making the players fail, but they do stand to lose a ton. This is simply not applicable to an MMO development.

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Posted by: OneYenShort.3189

OneYenShort.3189

GW2 is not a tabletop roleplaying game. The Devs gain nothing out of making the players fail, but they do stand to lose a ton. This is simply not applicable to an MMO development.

No it is not a role playing game. However, both management and developers are people therefore have emotions just as much as we do.

As Shakespeare once spoke via Merchant of Venice… “If you prick us, do we not bleed? if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?”

ANET can very well use a stick that looks like a carrot without causing overbearing detriment to their cash flow. There is a whole lot of psychology used with MMOs to make people addicted.

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Posted by: Fremtid.3528

Fremtid.3528

Honestly, after the stunt they pulled with the invisible shoes I wouldn’t put anything past them.

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

That’s a really interesting line of thought I didn’t even consider; that is more plausible than “incompetence”…

But: Never attribute to malice that which can be reasonably explained by stupidity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

I keep shaking my head in this thread. What did you all expect, something like the flax farm in VB? Someplace you could park a couple of characters and spend a minute to “harvest” all the nodes once a day? That wasn’t EVER going to happen.

Pre-HoT T5 and T6 leather was undervalue with millions on the TP for sale. ANet does not want to see that return. So it was obvious that this wasn’t going to be a “farm” like anything we’ve seen before. They wanted to set a bar high enough that if you REALLY REALLY want leather that day, you join a zerg and charge in and clear it for a short time to get a handful of leather directly rather than all the other ways to get it, all to keep a flood of leather from hitting the TP and plummet prices back into the floor.

So in the end they gave players what they wanted, a leather farm, but one that wouldn’t destroy the leather economy again overnight. Some suggest a tweak in drop and salvage rates could have fixed the issue in an organic fashion but the issue there is players might not recognize cause and effect. ANet wanted the leather market to be player controlled and self regulating, meaning if the price is to high there is somewhere players could go and reliably get that mat until the price dropped to the point where it is no longer attractive to do that activity.

Do I think the difficulty needs to be adjusted down a bit, sure, but never to a point that the farm becomes a place to park alts at or one that can be soloed by anyone.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

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Posted by: LinhZeri.6412

LinhZeri.6412

I keep shaking my head in this thread. What did you all expect, something like the flax farm in VB? Someplace you could park a couple of characters and spend a minute to “harvest” all the nodes once a day? That wasn’t EVER going to happen.

Pre-HoT T5 and T6 leather was undervalue with millions on the TP for sale. ANet does not want to see that return. So it was obvious that this wasn’t going to be a “farm” like anything we’ve seen before. They wanted to set a bar high enough that if you REALLY REALLY want leather that day, you join a zerg and charge in and clear it for a short time to get a handful of leather directly rather than all the other ways to get it, all to keep a flood of leather from hitting the TP and plummet prices back into the floor.

So in the end they gave players what they wanted, a leather farm, but one that wouldn’t destroy the leather economy again overnight. Some suggest a tweak in drop and salvage rates could have fixed the issue in an organic fashion but the issue there is players might not recognize cause and effect. ANet wanted the leather market to be player controlled and self regulating, meaning if the price is to high there is somewhere players could go and reliably get that mat until the price dropped to the point where it is no longer attractive to do that activity.

Do I think the difficulty needs to be adjusted down a bit, sure, but never to a point that the farm becomes a place to park alts at or one that can be soloed by anyone.

too funny hey it isn’t undervalued now is it?.. it has a purpose now.. before it didn’t. that makes no sense lol. Im sure you so concerned on the economy of a game.. are you hording leather or something? majority of players cannot constantly get the leather they need to make their equipment and other things. I love [sarcasm] the logic of self regulated economy when you got selfish people who game the trading post have full control over everything because the source of leather is low… self regulating economys DO NOT WORK because people are all out for themselves and don’t care for others its simple. It is so crazy how this concept of player regulated economy came to be. Im sure over years it can work but the attention span of players these days is near nothing it is a cute little idea that will cause issues continually and it has since John Smith announced it.

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

It seems the Devs created the Centaur Camp as fun content for groups (Guilds, zergs, etc.) and then the leather acquisition was attached to it. At least, that’s what I took out of the interview.

Thus, perhaps the drop rates will be adjusted, and there will be less lamentation.

Good luck.

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Posted by: Ider.1276

Ider.1276

It seems the Devs created the Centaur Camp as fun content for groups (Guilds, zergs, etc.) and then the leather acquisition was attached to it. At least, that’s what I took out of the interview.

My guess that whole north-eastern part of the map was supposed to be some kind of grand meta-event with a world boss on top. But then livestory team #1 run out of time/resorses and someone came up with an idea: “Hey, lets just put lots of elite mobs there. And we can give them leather drops so players would shut up about high leather prices”

(edited by Ider.1276)

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Posted by: Nikal.4921

Nikal.4921

I’ve done the farm very few times since I hardly see anyone running one. I managed to get 0% – 5% T6 leather. It’s definitely better to kill anything anywhere else on the map for T6 leather. So I feel safe ignoring that part of the map once I have the PoI. It’s a shame- Anet could have something fun to do in that area.

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Posted by: Mea.5491

Mea.5491

Sooo, I just checked the cost of maxing Leatherworking (400-500) on gw2crafts, it’s still 73 Gold vs 28 Gold Armorer and 37 Gold Tailor. I’ve been keeping an eye on this and leather prices are still high.

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

too funny hey it isn’t undervalued now is it?.. it has a purpose now.. before it didn’t. that makes no sense lol. Im sure you so concerned on the economy of a game.. are you hording leather or something? majority of players cannot constantly get the leather they need to make their equipment and other things. I love [sarcasm] the logic of self regulated economy when you got selfish people who game the trading post have full control over everything because the source of leather is low… self regulating economys DO NOT WORK because people are all out for themselves and don’t care for others its simple. It is so crazy how this concept of player regulated economy came to be. Im sure over years it can work but the attention span of players these days is near nothing it is a cute little idea that will cause issues continually and it has since John Smith announced it.

Self regulating as in “gee X is worth a lot, maybe I should try to gather some and sell it for sweet, sweet gold”. If enough players do that, the price drops until players stop doing that. That’s how all the other mats maintain their prices. So they gave players a farm, just one tough enough that most players who tried it decided it’s not easy money like flax during the early days of HoT..

The T5 and T6 leather glut came from the fact that salvaged level 80 leather gear yield T5 and T6 leather. And you’re right, there wasn’t a huge need for T6 or even T5 after Ascended T7 was introduced. But Ascended gear meant exotics weren’t as desired anymore so T6 was used even less. Then came HoT with “Patches”, the square recipe change, raids, scribing, Guild Hall construction, etc. And POOF, glut gone and prices 100x higher than pre HoT and here we are today. There are few means to “farm” T6 before this and even those have relatively low yields so other than doing a test “pan”, I decided against “mining” that particular tier of leather, just not profitable enough.

And nope, not sitting on a pile of stuff, well a pile I’m willing to sell as I still need to level up Leatherworking for my Thief’s ascended gear.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

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Posted by: Donari.5237

Donari.5237

It seems the Devs created the Centaur Camp as fun content for groups (Guilds, zergs, etc.) and then the leather acquisition was attached to it. At least, that’s what I took out of the interview.

My guess that whole north-eastern part of the map was supposed to be some kind of grand meta-event with a world boss on top. But then livestory team #1 run out of time/resorses and someone came up with an idea: “Hey, lets just put lots of elite mobs there. And we can give them leather drops so players would shut up about high leather prices”

The quote on the live stream was along the lines of “We design content that we expect players to approach delicately and then they come to it with 50 friends. So we thought we’d put something in there for the people that like to rumble along with 50 friends to do.” The comment was made humorously, not a lick of spite in it. Sorry I don’t have a video link to the exact moment so you all could judge the tone for yourself.

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Posted by: Ordin.9047

Ordin.9047

I have been playing GW since Prophecies and there has been a lot of changes made that seemed at the time to be us vs them. Nothing seems to have changed.

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Posted by: TorsoReaper.8530

TorsoReaper.8530

too funny hey it isn’t undervalued now is it?.. it has a purpose now.. before it didn’t. that makes no sense lol. Im sure you so concerned on the economy of a game.. are you hording leather or something? majority of players cannot constantly get the leather they need to make their equipment and other things. I love [sarcasm] the logic of self regulated economy when you got selfish people who game the trading post have full control over everything because the source of leather is low… self regulating economys DO NOT WORK because people are all out for themselves and don’t care for others its simple. It is so crazy how this concept of player regulated economy came to be. Im sure over years it can work but the attention span of players these days is near nothing it is a cute little idea that will cause issues continually and it has since John Smith announced it.

Player regulated economy is fine, it’s the actual regulation by Anet that’s the problem. They’re the ones screwing with drop rates, salvage rates, material refinement ratios. Of course there’s a problem. We never had a leather problem until Anet created a leather problem. If you’re a new player, you wouldn’t know this but if you’re a veteran you can point to all the things Anet did to screw this up.

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Posted by: Shivan.9438

Shivan.9438

It seems the Devs created the Centaur Camp as fun content for groups (Guilds, zergs, etc.) and then the leather acquisition was attached to it. At least, that’s what I took out of the interview.

My guess that whole north-eastern part of the map was supposed to be some kind of grand meta-event with a world boss on top. But then livestory team #1 run out of time/resorses and someone came up with an idea: “Hey, lets just put lots of elite mobs there. And we can give them leather drops so players would shut up about high leather prices”

The quote on the live stream was along the lines of “We design content that we expect players to approach delicately and then they come to it with 50 friends. So we thought we’d put something in there for the people that like to rumble along with 50 friends to do.” The comment was made humorously, not a lick of spite in it. Sorry I don’t have a video link to the exact moment so you all could judge the tone for yourself.

This amuses me.

This is typical MMO dev mentality. What they expect is NEVER what players will do and nary a one of them will ever learn this. And that’s the big key in this. There is NO foresight exercised here.

Let’s make a group leather farm. Let’s do it with mobs that will one shot some classes and mow down the ones that bother to stop and assist the ones that are down. Let’s not give everyone a way to kill them. But that’s okay, we’ll make a back door and put the hardest mobs there. Now on with the leather farm. Let’s make it group content and not count on the fact that some won’t get leather because other classes are really good at farming vs others. Let’s also alienate our already disgruntled farmers by making the farm absolutely useless vs the time because there are zones which are easier to farm.

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

too funny hey it isn’t undervalued now is it?.. it has a purpose now.. before it didn’t. that makes no sense lol. Im sure you so concerned on the economy of a game.. are you hording leather or something? majority of players cannot constantly get the leather they need to make their equipment and other things. I love [sarcasm] the logic of self regulated economy when you got selfish people who game the trading post have full control over everything because the source of leather is low… self regulating economys DO NOT WORK because people are all out for themselves and don’t care for others its simple. It is so crazy how this concept of player regulated economy came to be. Im sure over years it can work but the attention span of players these days is near nothing it is a cute little idea that will cause issues continually and it has since John Smith announced it.

Player regulated economy is fine, it’s the actual regulation by Anet that’s the problem. They’re the ones screwing with drop rates, salvage rates, material refinement ratios. Of course there’s a problem. We never had a leather problem until Anet created a leather problem. If you’re a new player, you wouldn’t know this but if you’re a veteran you can point to all the things Anet did to screw this up.

Yes they over compensated in an attempt to fix another problem which was over supply due to a lack of sinks. It seemed they sat down to brainstorm a fix then and came up with a list of potential fixes and implemented ALL of them when only one or two could likely fix it. At least phase in the changes one at at time and see if that would be enough. But they only seem to understand extreme changes rather than nudges.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

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Posted by: TorsoReaper.8530

TorsoReaper.8530

Yes they over compensated in an attempt to fix another problem which was over supply due to a lack of sinks. It seemed they sat down to brainstorm a fix then and came up with a list of potential fixes and implemented ALL of them when only one or two could likely fix it. At least phase in the changes one at at time and see if that would be enough. But they only seem to understand extreme changes rather than nudges.

They hurt us with extreme changes and then nudge it to try to help us. Wouldn’t mind it being the other way around for once.

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

too funny hey it isn’t undervalued now is it?.. it has a purpose now.. before it didn’t. that makes no sense lol. Im sure you so concerned on the economy of a game.. are you hording leather or something? majority of players cannot constantly get the leather they need to make their equipment and other things. I love [sarcasm] the logic of self regulated economy when you got selfish people who game the trading post have full control over everything because the source of leather is low… self regulating economys DO NOT WORK because people are all out for themselves and don’t care for others its simple. It is so crazy how this concept of player regulated economy came to be. Im sure over years it can work but the attention span of players these days is near nothing it is a cute little idea that will cause issues continually and it has since John Smith announced it.

Player regulated economy is fine, it’s the actual regulation by Anet that’s the problem. They’re the ones screwing with drop rates, salvage rates, material refinement ratios. Of course there’s a problem. We never had a leather problem until Anet created a leather problem. If you’re a new player, you wouldn’t know this but if you’re a veteran you can point to all the things Anet did to screw this up.

Yes they over compensated in an attempt to fix another problem which was over supply due to a lack of sinks. It seemed they sat down to brainstorm a fix then and came up with a list of potential fixes and implemented ALL of them when only one or two could likely fix it. At least phase in the changes one at at time and see if that would be enough. But they only seem to understand extreme changes rather than nudges.

The bit about implementing all of the brainstormed fixes rather than try one or two reminds me of MMO development in general.

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Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

It seems the Devs created the Centaur Camp as fun content for groups (Guilds, zergs, etc.) and then the leather acquisition was attached to it. At least, that’s what I took out of the interview.

My guess that whole north-eastern part of the map was supposed to be some kind of grand meta-event with a world boss on top. But then livestory team #1 run out of time/resorses and someone came up with an idea: “Hey, lets just put lots of elite mobs there. And we can give them leather drops so players would shut up about high leather prices”

With a bit of rework, that would have been an interesting addition. I understand why they are avoiding big metas for these maps, but this idea has merit of making the area more interesting and would be more in keeping with the innovation Anet used to be more keen to get behind.

It feels a little bit like we’ve dialled the clock back to earlier years of MMO gaming with “farming zones”. That could have easily been better disguised using events or a meta and still contained the leather farm if they wanted it.

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Posted by: Stand The Wall.6987

Stand The Wall.6987

ppl are complaining about this.
lol.
one mans trash is anothers treasure I ’spose.

Team Deathmatch for PvP – Raise the AoE cap for WvW – More unique events for PvE

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Posted by: Pifil.5193

Pifil.5193

too funny hey it isn’t undervalued now is it?.. it has a purpose now.. before it didn’t. that makes no sense lol. Im sure you so concerned on the economy of a game.. are you hording leather or something? majority of players cannot constantly get the leather they need to make their equipment and other things. I love [sarcasm] the logic of self regulated economy when you got selfish people who game the trading post have full control over everything because the source of leather is low… self regulating economys DO NOT WORK because people are all out for themselves and don’t care for others its simple. It is so crazy how this concept of player regulated economy came to be. Im sure over years it can work but the attention span of players these days is near nothing it is a cute little idea that will cause issues continually and it has since John Smith announced it.

Player regulated economy is fine, it’s the actual regulation by Anet that’s the problem. They’re the ones screwing with drop rates, salvage rates, material refinement ratios. Of course there’s a problem. We never had a leather problem until Anet created a leather problem. If you’re a new player, you wouldn’t know this but if you’re a veteran you can point to all the things Anet did to screw this up.

Yes they over compensated in an attempt to fix another problem which was over supply due to a lack of sinks. It seemed they sat down to brainstorm a fix then and came up with a list of potential fixes and implemented ALL of them when only one or two could likely fix it. At least phase in the changes one at at time and see if that would be enough. But they only seem to understand extreme changes rather than nudges.

Was it actually a problem though? “T6 leather is too cheap”. Who was that a problem for?

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

too funny hey it isn’t undervalued now is it?.. it has a purpose now.. before it didn’t. that makes no sense lol. Im sure you so concerned on the economy of a game.. are you hording leather or something? majority of players cannot constantly get the leather they need to make their equipment and other things. I love [sarcasm] the logic of self regulated economy when you got selfish people who game the trading post have full control over everything because the source of leather is low… self regulating economys DO NOT WORK because people are all out for themselves and don’t care for others its simple. It is so crazy how this concept of player regulated economy came to be. Im sure over years it can work but the attention span of players these days is near nothing it is a cute little idea that will cause issues continually and it has since John Smith announced it.

Player regulated economy is fine, it’s the actual regulation by Anet that’s the problem. They’re the ones screwing with drop rates, salvage rates, material refinement ratios. Of course there’s a problem. We never had a leather problem until Anet created a leather problem. If you’re a new player, you wouldn’t know this but if you’re a veteran you can point to all the things Anet did to screw this up.

Yes they over compensated in an attempt to fix another problem which was over supply due to a lack of sinks. It seemed they sat down to brainstorm a fix then and came up with a list of potential fixes and implemented ALL of them when only one or two could likely fix it. At least phase in the changes one at at time and see if that would be enough. But they only seem to understand extreme changes rather than nudges.

Was it actually a problem though? “T6 leather is too cheap”. Who was that a problem for?

Nothing should be “worthless” and at 10c it was. It was junk status. People complain about minor runes now and those are worth 16c. Economics work because of scarcity. It’s as much of a problem as to much gold in the system. Creation and consumption of items need to be in relatively close balance. Too much one way or the other is bad. Too much currency in the world is bad.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

(edited by Behellagh.1468)

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Posted by: Pifil.5193

Pifil.5193

too funny hey it isn’t undervalued now is it?.. it has a purpose now.. before it didn’t. that makes no sense lol. Im sure you so concerned on the economy of a game.. are you hording leather or something? majority of players cannot constantly get the leather they need to make their equipment and other things. I love [sarcasm] the logic of self regulated economy when you got selfish people who game the trading post have full control over everything because the source of leather is low… self regulating economys DO NOT WORK because people are all out for themselves and don’t care for others its simple. It is so crazy how this concept of player regulated economy came to be. Im sure over years it can work but the attention span of players these days is near nothing it is a cute little idea that will cause issues continually and it has since John Smith announced it.

Player regulated economy is fine, it’s the actual regulation by Anet that’s the problem. They’re the ones screwing with drop rates, salvage rates, material refinement ratios. Of course there’s a problem. We never had a leather problem until Anet created a leather problem. If you’re a new player, you wouldn’t know this but if you’re a veteran you can point to all the things Anet did to screw this up.

Yes they over compensated in an attempt to fix another problem which was over supply due to a lack of sinks. It seemed they sat down to brainstorm a fix then and came up with a list of potential fixes and implemented ALL of them when only one or two could likely fix it. At least phase in the changes one at at time and see if that would be enough. But they only seem to understand extreme changes rather than nudges.

Was it actually a problem though? “T6 leather is too cheap”. Who was that a problem for?

Nothing should be “worthless” and at 10c it was. It was junk status. People complain about minor runes now and those are worth 16c. Economics work because of scarcity. It’s as much of a problem as to much gold in the system. Creation and consumption of items need to be in relatively close balance. Too much one way or the other is bad. Too much currency in the world is bad.

I get that, but again was it actually a problem as such? Or just something that was considered undesirable by ArenaNet. I personally never had an issue with it. To ask the question in a different way, who did their changes benefit? Apart from those who are selling T6 Leather?

Back in the day, if I needed Hardened leather for something it was cheap, never caused a problem for me. 90 or so silver per square? Now that can be a problem for anyone who wants to craft. Surely this must also have a negative effect on the other T6 mats? The intricate gossamer insignia’s cost 9-10g now.

I used to craft exotic armour for alts quite freely, no way I’m doing that now seeing that crafting amour costs a lot more than buying the in-game level 80 exotic drops from the TP. I made two medium armour alts since HoT dropped, a second ranger and a second engineer. I bought the armour for the ranger from the TP and the engineer still has the soldier armour he got from the level 80 boost (I primarily made him for PvP). I won’t be making any more exotic armour while the situation is as it is.

Regardless, I agree with your point that they overcompensated in their “correction” attempts here and I think that has been disastrous for the in game economy. I think that they need to undo some of the damage they did to crafting. This leather farm hasn’t done that and I don’t think that messing about with drops alone will be enough.

(edited by Pifil.5193)

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

I get the feeling that most of the people who think the extremely high price of leather is fine are people who are already finished leveling their crafting and making armor sets for their toons, so they can feel free to sell all of the leather that they get and just make pure profit off of it. But this completely disregards newer players.

How is the price of leather inviting to new players? Why would they want to keep playing the game if it costs them 60 gold just to make the insignias for a single set of exotic armor? They won’t. This price isn’t conducive to trying new builds. Its not conducive towards new players enjoying the game. It doesn’t help anyone except the people who are done crafting armor. Its nothing but a deterrent to new players.

And its still not ok for one of the basic crafting mats to be so much more expensive than the other 3. T6 leather is still 6 times as expensive as T6 wood, 46 times as expensive as T6 cloth, 15 times as expensive as T6 ore. Not to mention that if the price of leather was lower, the price of cloth would go up as demand would go up.

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Posted by: Pifil.5193

Pifil.5193

How is the price of leather inviting to new players? Why would they want to keep playing the game if it costs them 60 gold just to make the insignias for a single set of exotic armor? They won’t. This price isn’t conducive to trying new builds. Its not conducive towards new players enjoying the game. It doesn’t help anyone except the people who are done crafting armor. Its nothing but a deterrent to new players.

And it will all be worse when they make the changes to buying Ascended equipment in Fractals and sPvP, to quote Grant Gertz: "the cost for a piece of gear will now include a crafted token which shows a player’s mastery of the appropriate crafting discipline, the game mode specific currency, and raw gold. " (my emphasis) from the next release buying Ascended gear “requires max level crafting”.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Ascended-Vending-Changes/first#post6498704

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

I can imagine that new players have the potential to benefit from selling high value leather drops to build up gold reserves at a point where they are not yet ready to embark on ascended crafting and before they have learned other means of farming gold.