Legendary weapons
Maybe instead of having 70 devs working on the next expansion you should shift 30 or 40 of those devs to completing your current expansion…
You don’t put up a $60.00 dollar paywall- advertising content, then months later be like “na, where just not gonna do it” Really? What kind of company are you running over there?
This should really be brought into focus. They need to HALT WORK on the next xpac and finish this one.
Also, in response to what Mike O posted to the completion of HoT. Mike, do you understand that when you promise something and get money for it by selling it, you actually have to DELIVER EVERYTHING? Yes, HoT had a lot of content, but it’s not ALL that you promised. Move the team working on the new xpac to finishing HoT and DELIVER YOUR PROMISES.
Maybe instead of having 70 devs working on the next expansion you should shift 30 or 40 of those devs to completing your current expansion…
^Completely agree.
So, when will I be getting a partial refund? Or some sort of compensation?
That was one of the things I PAID MONEY FOR as part of the expansion.
If they don’t start offering partial refunds they’re going to have a lot of chargebacks to deal with from angry customers that are sick of being lied to.
Jesus.
waiting for development to actually deliver on anything at all. The last 14 months have been incredibly disappointing.
Sorry MO, but you are just proving that the developers and company will continue to lie to the community.
You promised 12 new legendary weapons with HoT… we have 5+2 to come.
You promised legendary backpacks for each game type – PvP, PvE, and WvW. We have 1 of those delivered AFTER shipping the product.
You shipped a half baked story.
You shipped a bad WvW update that didnt take into consideration the core game play issues with the new BLs that hundreds of players gave you books worth of negative feedback on during the beta tests and after launch.
In all honesty HoT was a huge let down, and you have just proven that you will continue to not keep promises and even deliver on things you advertised as features for a product people paid money for… Its disgusting and unprofessional.
Yikes, can’t spare a few bucks to hire some contractors or something to help finish some models/effects? Not like there aren’t a kittenload of artists in the Seattle area looking for work. Maybe they’re all busy making workshop items for Steam? Do y’all not do contractors? HMM.
Would much rather have new wep skins than LW but I am pvper/fractal so w/e. Hopefully LW will bring cool skins.
the skin isn’t the hard part
Graduated top of class esports academy
#1 on fractal leaderboards
Ankdarkwolf, Darkmikau, Ballads, Spira, Caerbannog, Cysgod, you each posted a variant of an accusation I’ve seen many times over the past few months on the forums, something along the lines of, “AN shipped half an expansion with HoT.”
Agreed HoT was half baked.
We shipped a new region full of content, a new mastery system, gliding, guild halls, a new profession, nine new elite specializations for existing professions, and more.
New region = More map meta event spammage that isn’t fun to a large portion of the community due to lack luster rewards for time spent
Mastery system = Not fun, just another copy/paste of skill communes and others require you to run around doing achivements many other players would normally care very little about.
Gliding = Fun, almost perfect job on that one
Guild Halls = Killed the ability for small guilds to compete with large ones
New profession = I’ll give you that one
Elite Specs = Sold as “alternitive way to play your class” but was delivered as “straight upgrade, must be run at all time”. This is not true for all classes such as ranger and guardian, but for many such as engineer, necromancer, mesmer, warrior, elementalist, theif, etc it is not
More = uhhm what exactly? It sure wasn’t balance, dungeons, fractals, or any upgrade to exsisting content!
Raids = Wasn’t listed but gj there, I don’t play them but people seem to be having fun with them
I’m not gonna knock the content that was added. It was good. The problem was there isn’t enough of it.
New Zone? Quarter the size of Central Tyria, for the same price
Mastery System? Nice, but not a major
New specializations? We got 12. The core game launched with 32 for same price. And these 12 rendered most of those 32 obsolete.
definitely not buying next expac unless everything its supposed to come with comes at release…
Post of the year
Vial of Salt [VoS]
Sorry MO, but you are just proving that the developers and company will continue to lie to the community.
You promised 12 new legendary weapons with HoT… we have 5+2 to come.
You promised legendary backpacks for each game type – PvP, PvE, and WvW. We have 1 of those delivered AFTER shipping the product.You shipped a half baked story.
You shipped a bad WvW update that didnt take into consideration the core game play issues with the new BLs that hundreds of players gave you books worth of negative feedback on during the beta tests and after launch.In all honesty HoT was a huge let down, and you have just proven that you will continue to not keep promises and even deliver on things you advertised as features for a product people paid money for… Its disgusting and unprofessional.
We were actually promised 16 new Legendaries.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160325225641/https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/hot-new-legendary-weapons/
Pull/delay next expansion, not legendaries. Legendaries were promised this expansion.
^Yes, thank you. Agree.
while i dislike this decision, i REALLY appreciate you being open with us about it, Mo
I do not care about legendary weapons, PvP of any kind, balance, raids or WvW and festivals which I used to love have become copy and paste. So to me this is great news, the more developers working on Living World means the more story and events I get to play.
Living world is the content I like (Even though last season was hit and miss) so the sooner this team gets started the better!
Also thanks for being straight forward with us with such a decision, it may upset a few people but it is good that we all know what is going on. This is the kind of communication I like, knowing the direction of the game and being open.
(edited by Aedelric.1287)
Mike,
The GW1 formula of expansions (campaigns) being primarily a large new region with a bunch of new skills kept everyone pretty happy. Given your map designing tools and dynamic event system, I would imagine that large updates like this would be reasonably quick to market. Will the next expansion be along these lines, with some masteries and adventures sprinkled in? If so, can we expect a new region any time soon? Even with the fixes to the HoT maps, I don’t know how receptive players will be to redoing those zones again. I can’t speak for everyone, but I at least always crave a new world to discover!
Thanks for your time.
Seeing as how we were told we would get these legendary weapons among other things we still haven’t gotten with the purchase of Heart of Thorns, can we get refunds now?
How should I put this?
- you.
I paid for HoT. I even bought the $100 version because I believed in Arenanet. You had a good track record. And then HoT landed.
You released HoT without finishing the raids or legendaries, that is a kitten job. Now you’re telling me that something that I have been patiently waiting for will not come? Something that I actually paid for?
No more gem cards. Wait-and-see for the next expansion, no pre-order. You are on probation for false advertising, Arenanet.
As much fanboy as I am, I will have to “rage” on this.
A full set (minus underwater) of legendary weapons was one of the things that were supposed to be part of the expansion we paid for. You simply can’t scrap or even “put on hold indefinitely” something that is part of an expansion that was already released, only to free 6 developers, while you have 70 working on an expansion we’re not waiting for yet. Also, I sincerely hope that those 6 guys got pretty far into the development of some other legendaries because, even after spending myself sometimes 2 days fighting a bug that looked like “5 minutes easy” a few times (I work on a 1M lines app maintenance), and even after being amazed at how nice the precursor/legendaries collections are, I have a very hard time believing that it takes 6dev*6months = 3man-years of work for a single one. If that’s the case, there may be an underlying problem to address.
IMHO, we should have the full set of 16 new legendaries by October (is it insane to expect that something initially tied to and promised with a given expansion, even if we knew it would come over time, will be completely available 1 year after the release of said expansion ?)
It’s cool that you are setting a bigger focus on new LS, but even this is disappointing : by past experience and given that it was supposed to start again after HoT, it was not insane to expect it to restarts 3-4 months after release … 5 have passed and you’re still moving devs to LS teams.
ATM I have a very hard time figuring out what people are working on. 120 devs on live content (and 70 on expansion) means equivalent of 20 teams of 6. One was on legendaries and goes to LS, one is on raids, if we judge by past numbers we heard of about ls1/2, ~4 are on LS3 …. some on WvW overhaul … a few guys on bug fixes … and the rest ??
Oh and BTW, this announcement can really not sound nice when it comes right after you also confirmed to be ignoring stuff like keyring (or even putting key-like items in existing wallet).
This seems to be a really screwed up advertising campaign for your next expansion.
So, when will I be getting a partial refund? Or some sort of compensation?
That was one of the things I PAID MONEY FOR as part of the expansion.
If they don’t start offering partial refunds they’re going to have a lot of chargebacks to deal with from angry customers that are sick of being lied to.
If you or someone else that was looking into the legalities can post follow-ups it would be greatly appreciated. If they abandon what was promised, they’re straight-up lying and expecting to get away with it.
I must be one of the very few people who actually bothered to sit back and think before typing….
I actually agree with Mike on this one… It’s better to focus on more important issues than more cosmetic options. Every weapon we can use in the game has a Legendary option. Currently, Legendary weapons offer nothing unique except for effects and hot swap stats. There is not even any real lore tied to any of them…. E.g. Who wielded Dreamer for the first time? what amazing feat did he or she do with it?….. All we know is that it’s a play on “The Lover and the Dreamer”.
I’d rather the Dev team focus on things such as :
-Buggy / Broken Quests and Story Missions
-Fixing known Fractal Issues
-Fixing and Releasing the Legendary Fractal Back pack
-Fixing WvW and making it playable
-Making PvP tolerable, the current Matchmaking system is garbage
-Improving rewards for PvP & WvW
-Working on Living Story 3
-Working on a ton of class bugs, such as the druid celestial avatar icon eating half the hp bar cosmetically.
There’s a ton in the Core game as well as HoT that needs to be addressed.
You can’t have everything, something has to be sacrificed … please do notice how he said suspended and not cancelled.
If anything, I’m more annoyed that WvW is still neglected heavily and PvP is still a broken mess.
Collin is gone, let Mike clean up any messes and lets see where things go.
2015-2016
Fort Aspenwood
Seriously messed up. I’ve been waiting on the legendary longbow (have most of the other components done). Don’t promise content with your xpac and then fail to deliver it.
The gemstore skins keep rolling and you have a ton of devs working on the next expansion. You wouldn’t be so offended by the statement that you shipped half an expansion if you didn’t deep down know there is truth in what we say. Honestly I think this company needs new leadership, because right now it definitely isn’t cutting it.
Phoenix Ascendant [ASH] | Rank 80
I wrote a long post on reddit but I wanted to convey my absolute despair at this decision with two screenshots. And please note I don’t mean them in the slightest boasting way at all (hell they are worthless now).
http://i.imgur.com/6aHt3B9.png
http://i.imgur.com/D0x6Wo8.png
This is the worst GW2 decision I’ve ever read.
while i dislike this decision, i REALLY appreciate you being open with us about it, Mo
Yeah it’s great that they’re forthcoming about fleecing us yet again instead of just quietly ignoring it and hoping we forget. This way we don’t have to foolishly hold out hope for something that won’t happen.
I am at a loss on this. So what you are telling me is all the devs I have heard leaving are not being replaced? You are instead lowering the game to how many people you have? I have played the game since the beta of GW1 so I am not someone new and have watched the game as of late drop the ball too many times. Is it already time to put it on auto pilot like gw1 and you just do not want to tell us that?
Here is my thoughts on the current state of the game and where the efforts should be divided into. You should have a group on living story but not the whole team, there should be a group on updating the missing content like living story 1, SAB and any bugs related to the changes in the main content. you should have a team on new items and skins and make them available thru BL AND thru achievements and adventures. Lately more items are coming into the BL and now we are being told sorry we do not have the manpower to make the legendary sets but here is another full set to buy in our store with real money.
Take it or leave it I feel the core needs to be kept in tact and updated just as much as adding new content. But please look back over the years and go back to the way it was before hurrying up to pass out something sub par just to say here is something new.
I wrote a long post on reddit but I wanted to convey my absolute despair at this decision with two screenshots. And please note I don’t mean them in the slightest boasting way at all (hell they are worthless now).
http://i.imgur.com/6aHt3B9.png
http://i.imgur.com/D0x6Wo8.png
This is the worst GW2 decision I’ve ever read.
I’d argue that removing Solo Q from pvp was the worst decision ever made…
I’m sure all of WvW would argue that removing the old borderlands was the worst decision ever made….
2015-2016
Fort Aspenwood
So, when will I be getting a partial refund? Or some sort of compensation?
That was one of the things I PAID MONEY FOR as part of the expansion.
If they don’t start offering partial refunds they’re going to have a lot of chargebacks to deal with from angry customers that are sick of being lied to.
If you or someone else that was looking into the legalities can post follow-ups it would be greatly appreciated. If they abandon what was promised, they’re straight-up lying and expecting to get away with it.
Someone posted this link but I’m still reading it.
https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/advertising-marketing-internet-rules-road
Uh… while I can certainly see the logic of people wanting story more than legendaries, I feel like you should be pulling from the next expac team, not the entire legendary team. Also I wouldn’t recommend bringing up the “manifesto” in your argument as there are metric tons of salt about how we feel like the game got a lot more grindy than that document intended. Same “not as advertised” situation.
In Vino Veritas
Looks at the date
Bit too early for an april fools joke, aint it?
It’s exactly 7 days.
Why not stop making new Black lion weapons for a while and bring back a few old BL weapon sets that we can’t anywhere but the trading post? It seems like that takes quite a bit of development to make. I mean, I could be wrong but I think that it’d be a win win for the community. There are quite a few weapons that I missed the first time around that I’d like to get a hold of and you could focus on Legendaries and your other content.
Its a win win! Not everyone will like my solution because in game greed. But this doesn’t make everyone happy either. And I think that rotating old BL weapons back in could be a good solution.
I would rather than have 70 people work on content that is at least a year away at least 55 or so of them were took off to fix everything that needs fixed in game. I made my Astralaria months ago – it’s a shame others can’t do the same for their chosen professions weapon – it’s actually a shame they couldn’t do it along side me. I mean you are working on a new expac when we can’t even get an lfg fix in the multiple patches we get all the time.
Why not stop making new Black lion weapons for a while and bring back a few old BL weapon sets that we can’t anywhere but the trading post? It seems like that takes quite a bit of development to make. I mean, I could be wrong but I think that it’d be a win win for the community. There are quite a few weapons that I missed the first time around that I’d like to get a hold of and you could focus on Legendaries and your other content.
Its a win win! Not everyone will like my solution because in game greed. But this doesn’t make everyone happy either. And I think that rotating old BL weapons back in could be a good solution.
They already do that. Sales/special events bring back old skins.
A BLTC/Gemstore skin =/= legendary journey.
People seem to be unclear that “suspended indefinitely” is a very delicate way of saying “cancelled.” Yes, it means that there is always the potential for this field to be picked up and worked on again, but the plan is not to spend any more resources on it. Ever.
This news is absolute garbage. Shame on your entire company.
How about you halt development on your next expansion and finish everything promised in your lackluster HoT expansion first. This decision makes you seem like a bunch of crooks.
I really hope this game’s community makes you suffer when you launch your next expansion. Prepurchasing your next launch now seems like it will be completely foolish given how poorly you have delivered on this one.
ANET better not dare advertise new legendary equipment on your next expansion.
Hi all,
In the upcoming Spring 2016 Quarterly Update, we’ll launch the new legendary short bow, Chuka and Champawat. The team outdid themselves on this one. This new precursor journey takes you through a memorable experience inspired by a real-world story, and the bow you craft at the end is the perfect commemoration of that journey. I hope you all check it out.
Last year we talked about plans to gradually build out a second set of legendary weapons through live content updates. That’s a big responsibility. We have a team of six developers working on that, who could work on it for years to come.
As game director I have to make tough trade-offs. One thing I believe is that we have to focus on the core game first before taking on additional responsibilities. I wrote in the Guild Wars 2 Design Manifesto in 2010 that our vision was to create a living, dynamic world, where there’s always something to do. Let’s ensure we succeed on that front.
So, after shipping Chuka and Champawat, I’ve asked that we indefinitely suspend work on new legendary weapons. This team of developers will instead shift their efforts back to Living World style content, building new journeys and events for everyone to participate in.
I know this will be a controversial decision. I’ll hang out with you here on the forums for a little while today to discuss it. And I’m always available by email.
Mo
Thanks for the update MO.
Personally, I’m not fussed on more Legendary Weapon skins. I am however interested in more class balance (with regards to PvP) and the upcoming WvW updates.
Change is a good thing. Change is partly determined by displacement and I welcome this decision.
@ Everyone who’s angry. You won’t get anywhere flaming Mo or Anet on these forums. I’m not happy about how unpolished HoT was in general in many areas but, we’re dealing with first world problems here. Some perspective is needed.
Snafs Golem Emporium SoS
(edited by infinityandbeyond.9652)
I’ve never bothered with legendary weapons, but greatly miss living story and other new content, so this is a plus for me. Moving devs from highly limited and time intensive content to very open content is a wise decision overall given the current climate.
One of the primary reasons for participating in the 4 HoT map meta events is to earn currency and ascended materials required to craft the Gen 2 legendaries. They’re a lot of fun, but after finishing Nevermore I’ve had little desire to go to them apart from the occasional alt getting hero points.
What’s going to keep these maps populated and active 6 months down the line when everyone who wanted a legendary has earned it? Because it sure won’t be the 3 blues, 2 greens, 1 rare, and 30 bags of barbed thorns we get for completing them.
People seem to be unclear that “suspended indefinitely” is a very delicate way of saying “cancelled.” Yes, it means that there is always the potential for this field to be picked up and worked on again, but the plan is not to spend any more resources on it. Ever.
“suspended indefinitely” no more resources devoted to it until other objectives are complete. Doesn’t mean that a developer on his lunch break won’t work on it if hes bored. E.g. of Lunch Break Content: Court Yard “Team Death Match”
“Cancelled” Not going to happen period. E.g. : Guild Wars Utopia
2015-2016
Fort Aspenwood
People seem to be unclear that “suspended indefinitely” is a very delicate way of saying “cancelled.” Yes, it means that there is always the potential for this field to be picked up and worked on again, but the plan is not to spend any more resources on it. Ever.
And regardless of whether or not they may finish them later, this still goes against what was promised and paid for with HoT. “Suspended indefinitely” is not “small groups at regular intervals”.
Why not stop making new Black lion weapons for a while and bring back a few old BL weapon sets that we can’t anywhere but the trading post? It seems like that takes quite a bit of development to make. I mean, I could be wrong but I think that it’d be a win win for the community. There are quite a few weapons that I missed the first time around that I’d like to get a hold of and you could focus on Legendaries and your other content.
Its a win win! Not everyone will like my solution because in game greed. But this doesn’t make everyone happy either. And I think that rotating old BL weapons back in could be a good solution.
They cannot stop selling those BL skins because they have to pay for the PvP egame tournaments. Those $200,000 purses don’t come out of thin air.
While im happy living world (The main reason i play this game) is being focused on, its terrible to lose some hope on legendary weapons. Im a casual player, and after tree years i was able to gather some material to craft my first one and was hoping for a better scepter (The main reason i never crafted one). Can we at least have a glimpse on them so we can know if its worth saving The materials
I must be one of the very few people who actually bothered to sit back and think before typing….
I actually agree with Mike on this one… It’s better to focus on more important issues than more cosmetic options. Every weapon we can use in the game has a Legendary option. Currently, Legendary weapons offer nothing unique except for effects and hot swap stats. There is not even any real lore tied to any of them…. E.g. Who wielded Dreamer for the first time? what amazing feat did he or she do with it?….. All we know is that it’s a play on “The Lover and the Dreamer”.
I’d rather the Dev team focus on things such as :
-Buggy / Broken Quests and Story Missions
-Fixing known Fractal Issues
-Fixing and Releasing the Legendary Fractal Back pack
-Fixing WvW and making it playable
-Making PvP tolerable, the current Matchmaking system is garbage
-Improving rewards for PvP & WvW
-Working on Living Story 3
-Working on a ton of class bugs, such as the druid celestial avatar icon eating half the hp bar cosmetically.There’s a ton in the Core game as well as HoT that needs to be addressed.
You can’t have everything, something has to be sacrificed … please do notice how he said suspended and not cancelled.
If anything, I’m more annoyed that WvW is still neglected heavily and PvP is still a broken mess.
Collin is gone, let Mike clean up any messes and lets see where things go.
The thing is you’re not getting those things. Because 70 Devs are worling on Xpac2 already without finishing Xpac1. Maybe you should have thought about that before typing…
Those people who are upset have a right to be so. They were promised content which is now put on hold not for LS3 but ultimately because Anet started with Xpac2 already which no one wanted/needed after HoT.
There’s nothing you can say against that. Not without making a total joke out of yourself.
I see this as a good thing. The shift from casual friendly content/gameplay/loot to the traditional ‘longterm progression (timesink/grind)’ and ‘endgame (elite content for a minority) ’ model was never a good thing in my opinion. It was catered to a very vocal minority, who advocated to be ’the veterans’, while in reality where only a fraction of the playerbase.
Ever notice that Anet’s attention to things is a lot like a 10yr old with ADD on speed?
How many times have they introduced amazing new ideas, only to never implement them again? How many times have they added content, with promises of “new direction”, only to drop it for the next new shiny?They are a never ending stream of one hit wonders, which has resulted in a chaotic, half broken world full of players suspended half way between dedication and rage quitting.
Yep. I firmly believe that there will be one and only one raid ever added to the game.
I would hope so. Raids are content used by a tiny fraction of the playerbase, while content the bulk of the playerbase can access and participate in gets stopped work on – and they paid for it.
The raids team should finish up what they are doing and be moved over to the main game / LS3.
Firstly I want to give you props for having the courage to come here and tell us whats going on, it would have been really easy to release shortbow and dont say anything about the changes to the develompment of legendary weapons.
Secondly… this is surreal, how can you cut content that was promised long before release, that people have already payed for? how can you remove 6 people from working on live game and not 6 people from the gem store? how have this 6 people in 6 months released a SINGLE WEAPON when we have another team of 5-6 people releasing full raid wings? how can you halt the development on the main content people spend the gold they farm daily in? how is this even acceptable?
LS3 better be good, players are already leaking, and if LS3 is a failure they are going to leave in mass.
Doesn’t bode well for Ad Infinitum, I believe that will be next up to get axed if necessary.
Arenanet, you have built a great and unique MMO that I have had a very hard time finding an equal to. I believe in you guys to keep it being a great game, please do not prove me wrong. I use your game as an example of new, good ideas that can make an MMO successful. I don’t want to have to look for another game to make an example of.
Co-Leader of the Get Fresh Crew
Why not stop making new Black lion weapons for a while and bring back a few old BL weapon sets that we can’t anywhere but the trading post? It seems like that takes quite a bit of development to make. I mean, I could be wrong but I think that it’d be a win win for the community. There are quite a few weapons that I missed the first time around that I’d like to get a hold of and you could focus on Legendaries and your other content.
Its a win win! Not everyone will like my solution because in game greed. But this doesn’t make everyone happy either. And I think that rotating old BL weapons back in could be a good solution.
They already do that. Sales/special events bring back old skins.
A BLTC/Gemstore skin =/= legendary journey.
Right? With all the collection development required, a Legendary is way more than just art.
I feel this is another sad day for this game.
You promise as a full 2nd set of legendaries, advertise with them to bait people who love legendaries into buying the xpack..and now you don’t deliver…after you have taken their money.
I have no words for this that would actually get through the “kitten” filter.
No legendaries, yet you manage to release Black Lion Skins and Gliders almost weekly.
It’s clear that these generate easy cash, and that cash is becoming more and more important to ArenaNet.
Same with HoT.
The expansion is already rushed, systems are bugged or half in place, story is rushed out with gaps, we got 4 maps…we had to pay the full price for this…and instead of giving priority to fixing the problems we have now, you almost proudly tell us the amount of devs you have working on the “next expansion”.
And then I am not even mentioning actually actively destroying content.
Destroying dungeons, killing of WvW, PvP is still a nightmare as well…
Wake up Anet.
If you guys are going for the cashgrab nobody will be around to actually play the next expansion.
Such a different company since Guild Wars 1, even so much change since the start of GW2, or even pré HoT…
What happened to you people…
If you or someone else that was looking into the legalities can post follow-ups it would be greatly appreciated. If they abandon what was promised, they’re straight-up lying and expecting to get away with it.
I’ll be calling Citizen’s Advice on Tuesday (they are closed until then since it’s bank holiday weekend), who deal with consumer rights alongside Trading Standards in the UK. I suggest people in their respective countries do the same, as it will vary from country to country.
Fortunately, as of October 1st (i.e. shortly before HoT was released) the Consumer Rights Act 2015 was expanded to give legal rights to consumers related to their digital purchases. Since ArenaNet has essentially sold advertised certain digital content and have now decided not to deliver it, it is likely that they will be legally obliged to provide either a full or partial refund based on the documents I’ve read.
I’ll post full details once I’ve been through the process/have a case opened.
I see this as a good thing. The shift from casual friendly content/gameplay/loot to the traditional ‘longterm progression (timesink/grind)’ and ‘endgame (elite content for a minority) ’ model was never a good thing in my opinion. It was catered to a very vocal minority, who advocated to be ’the veterans’, while in reality where only a fraction of the playerbase.
It’s never a good thing when a company fails to deliver a product as advertised.
Especially when they are dedicating a huge amount of resources into the next product they will force down our throats by giving false promises.