Guild Wars 2

The impacts?

Crafting, Armors, Weapons, Traits, Open world maps, Dungeon
All have to be reworked or added.

I really don’t enjoy leveling.

darkace.8925:

How would you guys feel if they implemented something similar to FFXI’s Merit system? In the old days, earning exp at level cap earned Merit points which could be spent on new spells and abilities. In this game they’d probably be used for additional trait points or access to a new tier of traits, but the concept would be similar.

We have skill points that can be turned into material/legendary.

Joey.2769:

Increasing level cap = goodbye to remaining GW1 fans.

I disagree, and I say this as “one of the remaining GW1 fans”.

Raising the level cap will mean very-very little to anyone just as long as it does not also include yet another expansion of vertical progression through stat based gear, or a move towards must have classes (trinity model) for dungeons.

Basically, as long as GW2 stays true to the 3 features it marketed itself as for years (low gear grind, horizontal progression and no must have classes for dungeons), then it will be fine. But the day it caves in to the WoW teenagers, then, then it will be over. But not because the “remaining GW1 fans” will leave, but because the game will have lost it’s uniqueness. And then a whole lotta folks will leave, most especially the folks that came to Gw2 from traditional vertical progression MMOs for the specific purpose of not having to deal with stat based gear progression or the “4 of 5, need healer” nonsense.

If the cap increased that would mean more skill points to spend and the creation of unintended op builds. Trait and build balancing would have to start all over from scratch and take into account what builds are possible then….which could take another year of balancing

Ision.3207:

Joey.2769:

Increasing level cap = goodbye to remaining GW1 fans.

I disagree, and I say this as “one of the remaining GW1 fans”.

Raising the level cap will mean very-very little to anyone just as long as it does not also include yet another expansion of vertical progression through stat based gear, or a move towards must have classes (trinity model) for dungeons.

Basically, as long as GW2 stays true to the 3 features it marketed itself as for years (low gear grind, horizontal progression and no must have classes for dungeons), then it will be fine. The day it caves in to these, then, then it will be over. But not because the “remaining GW1 fans” will leave, but because the game will have lost it’s uniqueness. And then a whole lotta folks will leave, most especially the folks that came to Gw2 from traditional vertical progression MMOs for the specific purpose of not having to deal with stat based gear progression or the “4 of 5, need healer” nonsense.

I disagree, and I say this as “one of the remaining GW1 fans”.

That is just me though. I don’t like the way I level up in this game. I know several of people who has finished their 6th level 80 toon already, but I, for one, have only done 3. I can’t do the 4th because it’s so dam boring running around and explore the lands that I’ve done exploring. I also know of some people (funny people), who delete their character and redo them with a different profession just because they don’t like how their character look in that specific armor. They complain about how boring it is but are willing to do it for the looks. Very admirable

Simon.3106:

Ision.3207:

Joey.2769:

Increasing level cap = goodbye to remaining GW1 fans.

I disagree, and I say this as “one of the remaining GW1 fans”.

Raising the level cap will mean very-very little to anyone just as long as it does not also include yet another expansion of vertical progression through stat based gear, or a move towards must have classes (trinity model) for dungeons.

Basically, as long as GW2 stays true to the 3 features it marketed itself as for years (low gear grind, horizontal progression and no must have classes for dungeons), then it will be fine. The day it caves in to these, then, then it will be over. But not because the “remaining GW1 fans” will leave, but because the game will have lost it’s uniqueness. And then a whole lotta folks will leave, most especially the folks that came to Gw2 from traditional vertical progression MMOs for the specific purpose of not having to deal with stat based gear progression or the “4 of 5, need healer” nonsense.

I disagree, and I say this as “one of the remaining GW1 fans”.

That is just me though. I don’t like the way I level up in this game. I know several of people who has finished their 6th level 80 toon already, but I, for one, have only done 3. I can’t do the 4th because it’s so dam boring running around and explore the lands that I’ve done exploring. I also know of some people (funny people), who delete their character and redo them with a different profession just because they don’t like how their character look in that specific armor. They complain about how boring it is but are willing to do it for the looks. Very admirable

Simon, like you I dislike the 80 levels we already have, and find it more chore than fun to level new toons. But the 80 levels are not “deal-breakers” – nor would another 10 levels be deal-breakers for me (although I would not like it). The deal breakers are when the company does a 360 on the 3 features that set it apart from most other mmos in the first place.

I will say this though, the day they announce a level cap expansion, I will be VERY apprehensive. Because if ANET does NOT intend to go down the path of stat-based vertical progression, then why the level cap raise? Of course there may be other reasons for doing so that do not include yet another compromise to the vertical progression kids, but what?

Understood and well said, Ision.

Joey.2769:

Increasing level cap = goodbye to remaining GW1 fans.

Hmm, not for me, please don’t speak for all GW1 fans. I was a big GW1 fan, and IMO GW2 would benefit from some sort of gating or progression. This doesn’t have to be more levels, but that is definitely one way to accomplish it.

A few ideas:

- More Levels
- Skill progression (cannot get access to all skills without advancing in the game and/or exploring)
- Skill capturing (guild wars 1 concept, where one would bring a signet of capture skill and use it to gain a skill off an enemy mob)
- New maps that cannot be accessed until you have accomplished a certain task or gained a certain skill
- Less waypoints, putting them only in major outposts or cities

If Ascended and Legendary scales with levels I dont see a problem, leveling takes at most like 90 min/level. I would actually like to be atleast level 100 and have 20 more trait points at my disposal.

But I were against level increase before but now I dont know. :P

Voodoo.1709:

My main question is do you see a level cap increase in the future and how far off would you estimate it to be?

With the way GW2 is heading in, level cap increases are a definite possibility. I would assume they will increase the cap for their first expansion by 10 to 20 levels, depending on how large the new explorable areas are.

Of course, level 90-100 exotic and ascended gear would be part of that new cap, because a level cap increase is a pretty good excuse for them to add more gear progression to keep people invested without going against their promise of not releasing another tier of gear in 2013. Then again, I wouldn’t think an expansion to be released in 2013 anyway, so by the time the first expansion hits they shouldn’t be bound by that statement anymore.

If level cap is raised, I’m leaving. There is no reason whatsoever to raise it. It’s already way too high (should have been capped at 20 or maybe 30).

This is so easy, Asheron’s Call 2 did something similar to this (not many played this game I know). You hit level cap (50 in this case) and you can start some epic quest to become a “Hero”. Then your “Hero” level could go up to say level 10, but you are still level 50. All of your gear stays the same, but leveling up your Hero would allow access to other skills and such if I remember correctly. Been awhile now.

That would solve all of the issues. If they eventually choose to allow for more “leveling”, because that seems to be people’s issues rather than actually being a higher level, then this would be a decent substitute that would not affect gear or dungeon reqs but still give the illusion of progress.

LFk.1408:

Blaine Tog.8304:

I am forced to farm new sets of armor for all 7 of my characters.

You might be confusing “want” with “forced”. I don’t think you’re ever really forced to do that.

You are if you want to get into dungeon groups reliably or perform well in WvW. If I get into a duel while roaming, how good are my chances of coming out ahead if the guy I’m facing has 10 levels and similarly better armor than me?

Blaine Tog.8304:

LFk.1408:

Blaine Tog.8304:

I am forced to farm new sets of armor for all 7 of my characters.

You might be confusing “want” with “forced”. I don’t think you’re ever really forced to do that.

You are if you want to get into dungeon groups reliably or perform well in WvW. If I get into a duel while roaming, how good are my chances of coming out ahead if the guy I’m facing has 10 levels and similarly better armor than me?

Still doesn’t imply forced.
forced
/fôrst/
Adjective
Obtained or imposed by coercion or physical power: “the brutal regime of forced labor”.

I think you mean that you need to do it if you want to remain competitive in dungeons and wvw. Note that you do not need to do either of those things, and that no one is forcing you to do so (at least I hope not).

PopeUrban.2578:

Crazy Idea:

What if the level cap was raised, but 80 remained the highest gear requirement?

This wouldn’t have the annoying side effect of invalidating all of your hard earned exotics/ascended pieces, but would allow progression possibly in to new tiers of traits or other such core character advancement systems. In addition, new areas could, like they’ve done with some of the update content, add new stat configurations for more options in terms of horizontal progression.

I’d be fine with this. Right now, my biggest complaint about raising the level cap would be that it invalidates level 80 gear in a thinly veiled ploy to force everyone to buy more transmutation stones, but this would alleviate that concern.

My concern about restricting level of gear to 80 while also raising the cap, is that when you are down-levelled your gear is also down-levelled.

For example, if you are level 90 and your gear is level 80, than your gear is 8/9 of your level. That means when you go to a level 80 area, your gear will be down-levelled to 8/9*80 = level 71. So by raising levels and not gear, you will essentially make all current content much more difficult.

Tedium ’till I reach it.

Increasing the level cap killed Rift for me.

I was a huge fan of Rift. I was a hardcore raider with 4 max level toons (all tank and healer classes). I had a guild that I regularly ran with, players that I regularly spoke with and helped run groups with, etc. I didn’t have as much play time as them, but it didn’t matter since raiding itself doesn’t require a crapton of time if that is all you do, and it fit into my schedule.

Then came the expansion.

My raiding guild played far more than I did, and so they reached max level much more quickly than I did. Because of how far behind I was (taking weeks, if not months, to achieve max level when they achieved it in days), they were forced to start raiding without me if they wanted to remain competitive. Here I was, logging in the same amount of time I had always logged in, but I was INCAPABLE of playing with guild. While they raided and had fun, I grinded out the levels in the new zones.

After that I simply lost interest in the game. The entire dynamic that I had become accustomed to was turned upside down. I came to GW2 to stay.

Now, an increased level won’t affect me in the same way here because of the lack of raids, but it still would affect me. It would create a disparity in the levels of myself and my friends when no disparity is necessary. Right now, if one needs help with something, I can go help him. I’m max level and there is nowhere I can’t go safely. But if levels are increased? Well, I’d have to outlevel them to be able to continue to help, since if they are 89 and I’m 83 I won’t be of much use to them in their zones :-\

I see no point in adding levels to a game. IMO it does far more harm than good.

A better question would be, what are the benefits of increasing the level cap?

Wolfheart.1938:

A better question would be, what are the benefits of increasing the level cap?

Yes, I’d like to hear an answer to this as well.

Einlanzer.1627:

Wolfheart.1938:

A better question would be, what are the benefits of increasing the level cap?

Yes, I’d like to hear an answer to this as well.

I said my answer to these on page 1 on a few different posts. Ultimately, I think the benefit is that new levels can limit the speed at which you can experience new story and new content. Of course, it is not the only way of doing this, but it’s one of them.

IMO, I do not see gear progression, re-working of traits or any of the other complaints in this thread as negatives. I welcome gear progression and new builds with traits.

It all comes down to personal preference on what is good and bad. IMO everything about raising a level cap is a benefit.

But content is content, and stories are stories. No matter what level they are, if they take x hours to experience, it will always take that amount wheter they are level 80 or 90. Are you suggesting that purposefully slowing the speed at which we can experience content is a good thing for the player?

New builds and new traits are completely unrelated to the level cap (see last patch) so they’re definitely not a plus of raising the level cap. Same goes with gear progression, it can be introduced without raising the level cap. So again, what does raising the levelcap bring of meaningful to a game?

Wolfheart.1938:

But content is content, and stories are stories. No matter what level they are, if they take x hours to experience, it will always take that amount wheter they are level 80 or 90. Are you suggesting that purposefully slowing the speed at which we can experience content is a good thing for the player?

New builds and new traits are completely unrelated to the level cap, and in fact new traits have been introduced in the last patch.

That is what I am suggesting yes.

New builds can be created by changes to traits, but can also be created by increasing level cap (because then you get more trait points).

Just because the effects of gaining a level are not exclusive to gaining a level does not mean they do not exist.

Sure, but we can get extra trait points without having to increase the level cap too. Just like current skill points work, but starting from lv 80 and to a maximum cap of X extra traits

Also, I read your previous posts on page 1 and to me it seems your idea of new personal story missions doesn’t hold ground. The new challenging personal story missions could be lv 80 and nothing would change. The only benefit that seems reasonable to me is the one about pacing, but I’ll have to think it through before further commenting.

Wolfheart.1938:

Sure, but we can get extra trait points without having to increase the level cap too. Just like current skill points work, but starting from lv 80 and to a maximum cap of X extra traits

Also, I read your previous post and to me it seems your idea of personal story doesn’t hold ground. The new challenging personal story missions could be lv 80 and nothing would change. The only benefit that seems reasonable to me is the one about pacing, but I’ll have to think it through before further commenting.

Naturally. As I said, it is not the only way to slow down content, nor add traits etc; however, it is one common way to do so. Personally, I’d love to see a level cap with a new continent of higher level zones. However, if they add a new continent of level 80 and slow down movement throughout by other means that’d be alright too. We already know they can adjust traits and builds without level increases, which was fun (for me) to rebuild my main character.

However, having higher level stories can definitely change things. You can make a story inaccessible (unless you are very skilled) until you level up.

I understand that many people do not want a level increase, so it’s fine if we don’t get it. It’s just something I would personally enjoy. I’d also enjoy a healing class, vertical gear progression, less waypoints, more revealing armor choices among other things. I just have to live with what we got though

I’m happy that you are able to enjoy a game that seems to be going the opposite way of what you would want, but let’s not make this a personal wishlist shall we :P

I just wanted to discuss the intrinsic benefits of increasing the levelcap, not of what usually goes together with increasing levelcaps. I’d love new maps, and new maps are usually released when the levelcap increases, but it doesn’t have to be the same here unless we can think of valid reasons that benefit players. So far the only one that seems reasonable to me is the pacing one, as I don’t see how purposefully slowing us down is a benefit.

Now since it’s quite late here I’ll be off, but thanks for the nice exchange.

The leveling in and of its self is a good thing. It could make builds go from 30/30/10 to 40/30/10 etc. Toss in new weapons like brass knuckles, whips, lances, automatic pistols, automatic rifles, etc and you replace the need for additional classes when you instead invest on expanding what you already have with more build variety.

Concerning raising the gear level cap I would not like a regrind. Please no regrind. Rares and exotics are relatively easy to replace, but full sets of runes and sigils to transfer or replace could be considered costly. Thinking about ascended items just makes my head hurt.

I’ll quit. I’ve invested too much time to have it all put to waste.

I believe when we see a level cap increase we will also see another population decrease, such as what happened when Fractals and Ascended were added..

I don’t think this would be good for Guildwars 2 at all.

Voodoo.1709:

So I just finished obtaining my first full set of exotics on my necro and was going to start farming for another set with different stats for alternate builds but got to thinking if it was really worth it. If the level cap gets increased I would rather have several level 80 chars instead of 1 80 with every exotic set I can since that armor will be void after reaching a new cap. My main question is do you see a level cap increase in the future and how far off would you estimate it to be?

Some other questions would be:
A- How will they raise the level cap without kitten ing off all the players that worked forever for legendaries?
B- Same thing with ascended items…

One result will be if I’m still playing, I’ll quit. Experienced mmo players know this is the kiss of death. Nothing works right after, skills are either broken or useless, mobs are over powered. Every single quest or mission needs to be re worked and they simply won’t do it right.

The only thing there is to look forward to in a level cap increase in trait point. Outside of that it’s just an artificial and forced grind that doesn’t contribute anything positive to the game.

The only way I’d support a level cap increase is if:
- It was not applied to SPvP so we would still have the 70 trait point system.
- Our current equipment would not be devalued, so no level 81+ equipment, runes, infusions, or anything of that nature.

I can see the level caps raising but the gear stats staying the same with exotic / ascended items being at the top .

Just add another tier of traits after grandmaster .

LordByron.8369:

Voodoo.1709:

A- How will they raise the level cap without kitten ing off all the players that worked forever for legendaries?

As they already declared time ago.

there is a reason why people on 15 onvember rised against anet decisions

Legendary IS NOT a skin

Legendary is a TIER

If they up level cap, legendary items get istantly upped automatically to the new LEVEL.

They never promised that. All they promised was that legendaries will always be the best tier. A level 80 legendary will still be the best tier even if level 90 legendaries will exist. And since on November 15th they clearly shown that they are willing to go the “we didn’t really said that, even if we strongly implied it” route, i wouldn’t count on it too much.

And since the main reason of raising level cap would be to invalidate all the current gear and force people to gear-grind again, i just wouldn’t see them skipping that part. From the devs point of view there’s simply no reason to increase level cap (especially in a game when you can get those 10-20 levels in one day if you really want to) while keeping gear the same.

Jemmi.6058:

If you all hate levels so much, why are you playing an RPG with 80 levels???

This game already has 60 levels too many.

I personally welcome a level cap increase (not for a little while though). I am sure at the time I will be on a break from the game, and it will be the bait that brings me back in.

Bait? it’s the pesticide that kills player numbers.

Few people are asking the benefits of increasing the skillcap.

One very good reason … more trait points to spend.

Again, Flissy. More trait points are one common benefit* of increasing the levelcap but it’s one of many things (new maps, new mechanics, new skills) that can be easily obtained without having to increase it. Who says we can’t earn additional trait points once we reach level 80 just like we do with skill points?

• It may be argued that more points is not always a benefit because if not balanced properly they may even go as far as reducing build diversity. I’d rather have 10 different viable builds with 70 traits rather than 2 with 80, but that’s not really a point as it’s up to Arenanet not to screw up :P

What are the impacts of raising the the level cap? First one atom explodes. Then the atom next to it explodes, and then the next. We don’t know if the chain reaction stops at the borders of Tyria or extends to the borders of the planet earth. It’s not a risk I would be willing to take.

legendaries are just skin, doesnt change that

marnick.4305:

This game already has 60 levels too many.

More like 79 too many, haha.

Guild Wars 1 had Level 20.
People had fun in GW1 for 4 entire campaigns without level cap being increased.
What’s up with people so addicted to exponential stat growth?

want a game that increase level cap by 10 every year ? play LOTRO…..

I dont care either way, as long as it serves some good purpose. Im a level addict though, so I wont pretend I wouldnt enjoy more level ups for my main. I just hope if they do it, they do it right…not sure what the right way would be however…

Nuage.5230:

marnick.4305:

This game already has 60 levels too many.

More like 79 too many, haha.

He was referring to the fact that GW1 only had 20 levels, and they weren’t terribly hard to achieve (unless you wanted to become the Legendary Defender of Ascalon, in which case all mobs stopped giving you xp after level 10 and your only resource to xp was completing daily quests once you’d done every other quest in Presearing Ascalon. Imagine a very limited tutorial where you had to get to the max level in.)

80 is far too many levels. Far more than are necessary. In fact, I think levels altogether are an antiquated system that should stay in WoW and D&D where they belong. I’d so much rather see skill-based character progression than simple, stupid XP accumulation for levels (there are games out there like this – and one notable one I can think of is 10 years old…so it can be done, and done well).

I almost didn’t buy GW2 when I found out that the level cap at launch is 80. Seriously? What a no-brainer way to play. And at launch! It didn’t even have to take years and several xpacs to get it to 80!

Increase in level cap = I permanently go play something else. So that is the impact, as far as I am concerned.

you grind some more

Chuo.4238:

80 is far too many levels. Far more than are necessary. In fact, I think levels altogether are an antiquated system that should stay in WoW and D&D where they belong. I’d so much rather see skill-based character progression than simple, stupid XP accumulation for levels (there are games out there like this – and one notable one I can think of is 10 years old…so it can be done, and done well).

I almost didn’t buy GW2 when I found out that the level cap at launch is 80. Seriously? What a no-brainer way to play. And at launch! It didn’t even have to take years and several xpacs to get it to 80!

Increase in level cap = I permanently go play something else. So that is the impact, as far as I am concerned.

Quoted for truth… totally agree, +1 on this.

I hate leveling in the traditional sense. Besides leveling is almost nullified by the fact I can just buy a few gem cards and get though it in a few short hours by crafting. It’s not in place or needed to “help one learn how to play.” Even if it was, by level 20 I’m like “alright, I get it!” It sucks not being able to do an instance simply because I “am not level x.” I started a thread on all this once, and most people disagreed, many folks love leveling – and I respect that. For me, though, it’s the worst part of MMORPGs. When expressing that people often say “well these aren’t they type of games for you.” Yes they are, I love RPGs, but traditional levels get in the way of fun. There are better, and more interesting ways to progress a character. It does not have to be by levels.

I, too, was upset when I learned GW2 had 80 levels as well.

Nurvus.2891:

Guild Wars 1 had Level 20.
People had fun in GW1 for 4 entire campaigns without level cap being increased.
What’s up with people so addicted to exponential stat growth?

Key factors that differentiate GW1 and GW2 which is why level cap increases make more sense, or why they made sense to stay the same in GW1:

- GW 1 had skill progression, where you purchased and captured new skills as you progressed through the campaign. In GW2 you unlock all of your skills on your own.

- GW 1 campaigns were more story mission based, and you were paced through the story. GW 2 is more open world based, so there is less to slow down your pace

- GW 1 attribute system did not work nearly the same way GW 2 trait systems does. Opening up more levels can really change the way people play and open up new builds.

Raising level caps is not necessary in either game, but raising level caps can be fun. Ultimately, that is why I want it. It won’t negate older content, because you are downleveled. It will be fun, because you (or at least I) gain a sense of satisfaction when you level. It will be fun, because it will open up new builds and ways of playing the game. It will be fun, because it will open up new maps and dungeons aimed at the new level. It will be fun, because it will give you a new short term goal.

Again, many of these things can be achieved through other means, and that is fine. However, most things can be achieved through multiple means, and that is not reason enough alone to negate it.

Chuo.4238:

80 is far too many levels. Far more than are necessary. In fact, I think levels altogether are an antiquated system that should stay in WoW and D&D where they belong. I’d so much rather see skill-based character progression than simple, stupid XP accumulation for levels (there are games out there like this – and one notable one I can think of is 10 years old…so it can be done, and done well).

I almost didn’t buy GW2 when I found out that the level cap at launch is 80. Seriously? What a no-brainer way to play. And at launch! It didn’t even have to take years and several xpacs to get it to 80!

Increase in level cap = I permanently go play something else. So that is the impact, as far as I am concerned.

Fair enough, but on the other side of the coin, I have actually stayed away from other MMO’s that have gone and done away with the traditional levelling system. I tried them and got bored. To each their own.

Flissy.4093:

Few people are asking the benefits of increasing the skillcap.

One very good reason … more trait points to spend.

You could do that without increasing the level cap. It would just take a little more thought and ingenuity and effort that some boring xp grind snoozefest.

Imagine some kind of story and content associated with gaining those trait points…that would be so much more fun.

Jemmi.6058:

Chuo.4238:

80 is far too many levels. Far more than are necessary. In fact, I think levels altogether are an antiquated system that should stay in WoW and D&D where they belong. I’d so much rather see skill-based character progression than simple, stupid XP accumulation for levels (there are games out there like this – and one notable one I can think of is 10 years old…so it can be done, and done well).

I almost didn’t buy GW2 when I found out that the level cap at launch is 80. Seriously? What a no-brainer way to play. And at launch! It didn’t even have to take years and several xpacs to get it to 80!

Increase in level cap = I permanently go play something else. So that is the impact, as far as I am concerned.

Fair enough, but on the other side of the coin, I have actually stayed away from other MMO’s that have gone and done away with the traditional levelling system. I tried them and got bored. To each their own.

That’s one of the things I like about GW2: It has the option for traditional leveling for those who enjoy it, but it also provides the option to [almost] bypass leveling by crafting. I also dig how you can get pretty much insta-capped for PvP.

TBH GW2 actually kinda rocks, IMO. I don’t know why this game doesn’t have like 12 million subscribers. Oh yes I do, it’s the same reason Aniello Desiderio’s youtube videos only have like an average of 70k views while Lady Gaga has a few hundred million…. But I won’t go there more than I already have. ;-)