Guild Wars 2

Guhracie.3419:

I’m going to have to disagree. Levels in GW2 are much less important than in most other RPG systems. GW2 does an excellent job with scaling, as well, in most areas.

I’m going to have to disagree to disagreeing. Levels serve no purpose except to stop newbies from getting killed by the first boss they encounter.

Solution: add a tutorial…

Gabby.3205:

Knighthonor.4061:

Gabby.3205:

But you can’t sneeze without getting exp in this game. I wouldn’t call that grinding at all.

thats not important. its still a grind, because its something that prevents you from doing something. you can sneeze and gain exp for you, but that may not be fun to sneeze for hours on end just to unlock the fun elements of the game, which is exploration, and build making.

Grinding is, by defintion, doing the same thing over and over. There are so many things you can do to level that it simply does not fit the definition of grinding. IF you want to grind, you can, but it is not necessary to grind to level.

That’s wrong. If you have leveled 8 level 80s (like me), speak to me again.

It doesn’t matter how many 80s you have. It matters how you got them, and whether or not you enjoyed doing it.

There are people who begin grinding the first day they log into a game, and there are people who aren’t doing it after playing daily for 5 years. It’s an attitude and approach, not a matter of time.

I think RPGs benefit from a level system because it helps create structure around advancement and throttle the pacing of it, however, I do think it’s definitely arguable that 80 was too many and that they should have stuck to 20 or 40.

However, I will also argue that the scaling mechanics make it a much more trivial issue than it would be otherwise, largely because it helps the conceptualization of it as an abstraction rather than a literal growth in huge amounts of power.

Sirendor.1394:

Gabby.3205:

Knighthonor.4061:

Gabby.3205:

But you can’t sneeze without getting exp in this game. I wouldn’t call that grinding at all.

thats not important. its still a grind, because its something that prevents you from doing something. you can sneeze and gain exp for you, but that may not be fun to sneeze for hours on end just to unlock the fun elements of the game, which is exploration, and build making.

Grinding is, by defintion, doing the same thing over and over. There are so many things you can do to level that it simply does not fit the definition of grinding. IF you want to grind, you can, but it is not necessary to grind to level.

That’s wrong. If you have leveled 8 level 80s (like me), speak to me again.

I’ve leveled 8 to 80, as well as deleted a 51 and a 73… and I’d rather level than play the “endgame” herd activities. I don’t find leveling to be grind at all, but I do find repeating meta events, dungeon paths and temples to be tedious as heck.

As it should. People feels they are discriminated for their level without realizing they are trying to play the content sections that are not meant for their level. Dungeons for examples. True that dungeons’ text said suggested level being X and Y, but in reality, a geared lvl 80 can get downed by one of those Gravel rather easy. Not that the 80s are weak, it’s because these guys hit HARD.

Knighthonor.4061:

shaidyn.4016:

Guhracie.3419:

Knighthonor.4061:

shaidyn.4016:

Respectfully, Knighthonor, you’re playing the wrong game. In fact, you’re playing the wrong genre. You should go find some nice action adventure games to play.

again hate when people say this, because Levels wasnt always the Genre.

Playing with others in a world, was define this genre. not levels, since Character level trail didnt become popular until Everquest 1, and made standard from WoW which uses the same system as Everquest 1. those games were popular, but doesnt mean level locking mechanics is a good game design.

Okay, you are obviously trolling. Leveling was a huge part of RPGs well before computer games, and certainly before Everquest. Levels originated in tabletop gaming, and have been adopted by the vast majority of RPGs and MMORPGs have carried them along as a natural progression.

He’s not trolling, he’s just deluded. Note the points he keeps bringing up in his posts. FPS games. He wants MMO-RPGs to be FPS games with a fantasy skin.

What I don’t is people like him who play games they know they won’t like, and then complain about it. “I hate games with level progression. I’m going to play this game that has level progression. THIS LEVEL PROGRESSION IS STUPID AND THEY SHOULD REMOVE IT.”

The OP looks about as crazy as if I went to the Madden forums and demanded they introduce levels.

I am not trolling nor delusional.
Somebody at Anet also had the same reason of thought that I did. somebody at Sony also was thinking about this as well. the game becomes fun from day 1 when you have the freedom to make our own fun rather than be told what and what not is fun. levels tell us what we can and cant do, until we do a grind, that some people may or may not enjoy.

You’re right, they did think about it. And then, after thinking about it, they didn’t do it. Because it’s a bad idea.

You’re entitled to your opinion. But my opinion is that your opinion is bone stupid. And I’m entitled to that opinion.

Some interesting ideas and views against the levels, but I don’t see how you get around a few things:

1) introduce new players to mechanics with simpler combat and give them practice required to survive tougher content. A tutorial could do this, but that is what i consider the newbie zones to be anyway.

2) sure, it’d be nice to roll out to any zone on a level 1, but how would i know what sort of challenges to expect in those zones if not for levels?

Honestly, I’m not sure why anyone would look at this game in particular and worry about levels. I understand everyone has different play styles and available playtime, but even a very casual player can hit level 80 in a very short time. A friend of mine bought the game Sunday and requested no help learning the game. Playing about 2-3 hours a day, he hit 45 last night. I’d also mention he has never stepped foot in a dungeon, and completes each and every map he steps onto.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Sirendor.1394:

Gabby.3205:

Knighthonor.4061:

Gabby.3205:

But you can’t sneeze without getting exp in this game. I wouldn’t call that grinding at all.

thats not important. its still a grind, because its something that prevents you from doing something. you can sneeze and gain exp for you, but that may not be fun to sneeze for hours on end just to unlock the fun elements of the game, which is exploration, and build making.

Grinding is, by defintion, doing the same thing over and over. There are so many things you can do to level that it simply does not fit the definition of grinding. IF you want to grind, you can, but it is not necessary to grind to level.

That’s wrong. If you have leveled 8 level 80s (like me), speak to me again.

I’ve leveled 8 to 80, as well as deleted a 51 and a 73… and I’d rather level than play the “endgame” herd activities. I don’t find leveling to be grind at all, but I do find repeating meta events, dungeon paths and temples to be tedious as heck.

I don’t do the ‘80 end-game’, because it is pretty much very bad content. Most of it it zerg-farming. Dungeons are better quality, but they get repetitive. The only thing I play in this game is WvW.

Galtrix.7369:

Knighthonor.4061:

Levels segregate the game world.

People cant enjoy the full of the game world without leveling first.

if players take their time, they miss out on all the cool things happening all over the place.

So no point not rushing to max level. but that leads to burnout since the skill/trait system doesnt reward well for leveling between 1-30, 30-40, 40-60, 60-80.

Would you like to eliminate levels altogether? Would you like there to be a server where you could instantly be level 80? Would you like to be temporarily leveled up when entering a higher level zone?

You didn’t provide a single solution. All you did was complain, and you didn’t suggest much of anything. Levels are a lot less stressful in this game than in others. This must be your first MMORPG. So go play WoW, Rift, Aion, or Runes of Magic and then try to compare the leveling process. I personally think Anet did a very good job on the level system, even though I hate not being able to one hit things.

I would love that actually. I think once you’ve played through once having the option to make an alt at 80 would rock! I’m burnt out on leveling and my time is limited.

SHM.7628:

Galtrix.7369:

Knighthonor.4061:

Levels segregate the game world.

People cant enjoy the full of the game world without leveling first.

if players take their time, they miss out on all the cool things happening all over the place.

So no point not rushing to max level. but that leads to burnout since the skill/trait system doesnt reward well for leveling between 1-30, 30-40, 40-60, 60-80.

Would you like to eliminate levels altogether? Would you like there to be a server where you could instantly be level 80? Would you like to be temporarily leveled up when entering a higher level zone?

You didn’t provide a single solution. All you did was complain, and you didn’t suggest much of anything. Levels are a lot less stressful in this game than in others. This must be your first MMORPG. So go play WoW, Rift, Aion, or Runes of Magic and then try to compare the leveling process. I personally think Anet did a very good job on the level system, even though I hate not being able to one hit things.

I would love that actually. I think once you’ve played through once having the option to make an alt at 80 would rock! I’m burnt out on leveling and my time is limited.

Exactly. I don’t have time nor interest in farming dungeons for 2 weeks so I can buy supplies to get a level 80, while I actually only want to use that level 80 in WvW.

Levels serve no purpose in this game. The things it does add could have been done regardless (skill availability, material tiers etc.). In an attempt to make the zones playable we have scaling, but that doesn’t work well. GW2 was supposed to be redefining MMO bot expanding levels above gw1 was a backward conventionalist step. GW1 proved that fast leveling to 20 (for training purposes) created a much better game so the next logical step would be no levels, not copy WoW and fall back into the pack.

As someone that has played MMORPGs since the early days of EQ1, countless single player RPGs, D&D, and a load of other games that involve leveling, I can say with certainty that the leveling system in GW2 is easily one of the best (No hell levels being a huge +). For once in a game I did not worry about my level, as just doing the content available at each level was enough to move me to the next area. It’s not a grind, in fact it is a rather organic experience. Instead of grinding my face off for days to enjoy the game, I got to enjoy it with the very first tutorial instance.

Now, you could bring up games like EVE, but that also has leveling. You are skill gated behind sometimes MASSIVE time sinks (Marauders come to mind) so that style is no different. Heck, even Minecraft has levels now, not that they really mean much outside a few spiffy mods, but they are still there because people wanted them.
People have mentioned FPS games in reference to level-less games, how many FPS games have levels today, levels that dictate what weapons you can and can’t use? How many of them are multiplayer?

Just to note, almost every level-less RPG I have played was kind of a disaster in implementation. A bit like communism: Looks great on paper, put it in practice and everything falls apart.

There certainly are RPGs out there without a strict level system so clearly the “it’s how everybody else does it” argument isn’t a very strong one. It sounds a bit like someone in 1880 A.D. saying “you’re dumb for wanting an automobile because people have ridden horses for thousands of years”. There were level-less point buy RPG systems before MMOs ever came out and there are plenty of action/rpg hybrids with formats that could easily translate in an MMO paradigm. In fact, it really looks like Anet wanted to do something like this with GW2 but, for whatever reason, they didn’t actually follow through with it.

The most obvious way to do what the OP is asking for is by making skill points the main form of progression. You’d probably have more utility and weapon skill choices for every key than currently exist per class and the only way of unlocking them would be to visit skill point locations on the map, complete dungeons, level your crafting or do any number of other things (i.e. play your way) as opposed to gaining levels that just increase all of your numbers. In this system, you would be able to go to any zone or event with much more flexibility than you currently can since you wouldn’t be artificially gated by a stat treadmill but those with a fleshed out suite of skills would have a definite advantage. This system also has the advantage of letting you explore the zones of the world in any order you want instead of being forced into the same level bands every time you level a character.

Trivia

/15charr

People asking to abolish a leveling system on an MMORPG? What’s next? Abolish gear rarity? Give BiS gears the moment you create a character?

I would say no. Leveling gives you a sense of progression/competition and a sense of hard work, dedication and commitment. You need to get to point A to get access to point A skills, to wear point A gears and to play equally with point A players.

knives.6345:

People asking to abolish a leveling system on an MMORPG? What’s next? Abolish gear rarity? Give BiS gears the moment you create a character?

I would say no. Leveling gives you a sense of progression/competition and a sense of hard work, dedication and commitment. You need to get to point A to get access to point A skills, to wear point A gears and to play equally with point A players.

Is it that far fetched? The downscale you when you enter a lower level area. That is kind of like doing away with levels. In the new" nightmare" instance they bump everyone up to level 80.

You still need to amass skill points for progression or your skills are locked. I think it can be done. You can make skill points and trait points gainable from skill challenges and by moving the XP bar as well.

What practical purpose does the levels really serve in this kind of system anyway? Even with armor and weapons. Its all basically throw away stuff until you’re maxed. This would really help simplify crafting too. As it stands, its all too confusing and convoluted.

One level, go wherever you want. Do whatever you want to do. Sounds pretty darn good to me. Plus think back to GW1. You could get to level 20 and get max armor pretty quickly. That wasn’t what made you good. You unlocked skills and learned how to use them. You unlocked your heroes and title track, learned to run dungeons. Then you were good You weren’t just good because you were level 20.

Once you get out of your starting zone you’re free to go where you want, outside of instances. Area levels are recommended and not enforced. It’s recommended you reach those levels so as not to put up with getting 1-shot over and over. Your abilities will still be effective. When you block you block when you blind you blind, you’re just not strong enough. Hell, you can even go into wvw and try your luck there. It’ll beat you up over and over unless you learn not to bite more than you can chew and to get stronger. When your character gets stronger, they take on bigger challenges. Unlocking traits and utilities is merely a delivery system representing your character’s growth. Or, if you want, you could do a long term role-play with someone already at level 80 and is your guardian Maybe you’re the guy carrying some terrible burden that must be destroyed, and she’s the sexy necromancer that makes sure you get to Mount Doom.

That said, gear progression is pretty terrible at 80. 1 laurel a day, account wide, and a little bump for doing fractals. Laurels should be worked for, not waited for. The daily should just be one avenue to earn them. & they should be worked for in both pve and wvw since that’s what people get them for.

I wouldn’t mind seeing some lower level instances. 45 is much too high to be starting out dungeons.

PvP, though it ruins your immersion by setting you up and distancing you from the work you’ve put in, is a great outlet for what you’re looking for. & I think it’s brilliant in that way – instant level playing field. You’re playing against other players in a test of skill, awareness, and adaptation, as opposed to being a story where you face terrible monsters that devour inexperienced adventurers. Inexperienced.

Experience points represent experience… who knew?

I’m not saying other rpgs without leveling are in any way bad, I’m just saying there’s nothing inherently wrong with this method either. It’s a symbolic representation of growth. Try joining a dojo and taking on the black belts some day, and you’ll figure out what it’s symbolic of.

SHM.7628:

knives.6345:

People asking to abolish a leveling system on an MMORPG? What’s next? Abolish gear rarity? Give BiS gears the moment you create a character?

I would say no. Leveling gives you a sense of progression/competition and a sense of hard work, dedication and commitment. You need to get to point A to get access to point A skills, to wear point A gears and to play equally with point A players.

Is it that far fetched? The downscale you when you enter a lower level area. That is kind of like doing away with levels. In the new" nightmare" instance they bump everyone up to level 80.

You still need to amass skill points for progression or your skills are locked. I think it can be done. You can make skill points and trait points gainable from skill challenges and by moving the XP bar as well.

What practical purpose does the levels really serve in this kind of system anyway? Even with armor and weapons. Its all basically throw away stuff until you’re maxed. This would really help simplify crafting too. As it stands, its all too confusing and convoluted.

One level, go wherever you want. Do whatever you want to do. Sounds pretty darn good to me. Plus think back to GW1. You could get to level 20 and get max armor pretty quickly. That wasn’t what made you good. You unlocked skills and learned how to use them. You unlocked your heroes and title track, learned to run dungeons. Then you were good You weren’t just good because you were level 20.

It’s not a bad idea for there just to be skills unlocked. River City Ransom was like that… & it had an economic system of progressing your character, buying sushi to get stronger or training in techniques… it didn’t have levels, but essentially it had levels.

Economic progression, such as buying a bigger boat when you can afford it, or organization rank/permissions progression, such as getting clearance to drive a tank, or leveling all amount to the same thing in the end, though.

Sorry about the DP.

Though I am against level scaling up for this game, one thing I absolutely do think would be appropriate is gear scaling up for this game. A crappy strong sword in a lvl 5 zone should be a lvl 5 crappy strong sword. A crappy strong sword in a lvl 30 zone should be a lvl 30 crappy strong sword, even if you somehow got it there in one piece on a lvl 2 character. lvl requirements to weild a weapon would still be very appropriate in this kind of setup.

The boy leaving the farm to go adventuring does not face the end boss without becoming dragon kibble. There is a need to for the heroic journey and the easiest way to do that is to make areas that you are forced to “grow into” before advancing. It’s not about player skill but their character’s growth in story.

Levels serve no real purpose in Guild Wars 2 and I for one would not miss them. In fact, I’d love for the stat bloat to be addressed.

SHM.7628:

knives.6345:

People asking to abolish a leveling system on an MMORPG? What’s next? Abolish gear rarity? Give BiS gears the moment you create a character?

I would say no. Leveling gives you a sense of progression/competition and a sense of hard work, dedication and commitment. You need to get to point A to get access to point A skills, to wear point A gears and to play equally with point A players.

Is it that far fetched? The downscale you when you enter a lower level area. That is kind of like doing away with levels. In the new" nightmare" instance they bump everyone up to level 80.

You still need to amass skill points for progression or your skills are locked. I think it can be done. You can make skill points and trait points gainable from skill challenges and by moving the XP bar as well.

What practical purpose does the levels really serve in this kind of system anyway? Even with armor and weapons. Its all basically throw away stuff until you’re maxed. This would really help simplify crafting too. As it stands, its all too confusing and convoluted.

One level, go wherever you want. Do whatever you want to do. Sounds pretty darn good to me. Plus think back to GW1. You could get to level 20 and get max armor pretty quickly. That wasn’t what made you good. You unlocked skills and learned how to use them. You unlocked your heroes and title track, learned to run dungeons. Then you were good You weren’t just good because you were level 20.

Uh… Traits? Stats?

TSW was advertised as trying to do away with levels. In my opinion they failed miserably. You still earned experience points. You still unlocked skills in a tier order. You still needed to finish tier 1 before you got to tier 2…the only thing missing was a level number. By all other criteria you were simply leveling. I felt misled by the company after playing it.

A level, in most games, is just a numeric representation of how far you’ve come, particularly in regard to character development. Generally you get certain things unlocked until you’re 80, afterwhich you’re basically funneled into end game content.

Arguably, in this game, you don’t really need levels as much, because with the exception of your last trait points, you’re not getting much after level 30 even. All the skill slots are unlocked. Level would then be irrelevant say to unlocking a 30 point elite skill.

But levels are in most RPGs, if not directly, at least in spirit. I’m not sure how much difference doing away with them would actually make.

Skills should have levels. The more you use one skill the more they level and gain power up to a max of course. It would give you the option to level more skills or stick with the ones you like

Characters should not have levels. They should have an age. every 10h of being online will raise your status points by 10% up to a max of 300%

Weapons, armors and items should not have level restrictions but power restrictions. You can equip any of them but they will vary in stats spending on your character’s age

Ronah.2869:

Skills should have levels. The more you use one skill the more they level and gain power up to a max of course. It would give you the option to level more skills or stick with the ones you like

Characters should not have levels. They should have an age. every 10h of being online will raise your status points by 10% up to a max of 300%

Weapons, armors and items should not have level restrictions but power restrictions. You can equip any of them but they will vary in stats spending on your character’s age

I don’t agree with age.

People who has their own pc’s will just leave it afk and poof! Max age. Players should be putting effort to make their character stronger.

Ronah.2869:

Skills should have levels. The more you use one skill the more they level and gain power up to a max of course. It would give you the option to level more skills or stick with the ones you like

Characters should not have levels. They should have an age. every 10h of being online will raise your status points by 10% up to a max of 300%

Weapons, armors and items should not have level restrictions but power restrictions. You can equip any of them but they will vary in stats spending on your character’s age

So if they get past a certain age, will their abilities start to deteriorate?

Vayne.8563:

Ronah.2869:

Skills should have levels. The more you use one skill the more they level and gain power up to a max of course. It would give you the option to level more skills or stick with the ones you like

Characters should not have levels. They should have an age. every 10h of being online will raise your status points by 10% up to a max of 300%

Weapons, armors and items should not have level restrictions but power restrictions. You can equip any of them but they will vary in stats spending on your character’s age

So if they get past a certain age, will their abilities start to deteriorate?

No, they can increase the percentage if they add more content in the game that needs you to be stronger. The same thing can happen with the skills levels..
If your character has 1000h when they will add content thet needs you to be stronger they will re-adjust your stats accordingly. They did this with magic find
So, after a certain age, a character wont get stronger…. like it doesn’t even now after lvl 80, but in the future if the game needs it, then it will get more stronger like they would increase the level cap to 100

knives.6345:

Ronah.2869:

Skills should have levels. The more you use one skill the more they level and gain power up to a max of course. It would give you the option to level more skills or stick with the ones you like

Characters should not have levels. They should have an age. every 10h of being online will raise your status points by 10% up to a max of 300%

Weapons, armors and items should not have level restrictions but power restrictions. You can equip any of them but they will vary in stats spending on your character’s age

I don’t agree with age.

People who has their own pc’s will just leave it afk and poof! Max age. Players should be putting effort to make their character stronger.

it is not a problem. people are doing the crafting for leveling in one day with less to no effort. Letting your PC on and AFK they kick you off after 1h as it is now. So it will not be possible with the AFK kick timer
Besides 10h for 10% means 100h for 100% and 300h for 300%
i think many of level 80 now get even exotics in 300h of play so I doubt anyone will let PC open that much time without playing anything because your income – gold, karma – will not increase.

Ronah.2869:

knives.6345:

Ronah.2869:

Skills should have levels. The more you use one skill the more they level and gain power up to a max of course. It would give you the option to level more skills or stick with the ones you like

Characters should not have levels. They should have an age. every 10h of being online will raise your status points by 10% up to a max of 300%

Weapons, armors and items should not have level restrictions but power restrictions. You can equip any of them but they will vary in stats spending on your character’s age

I don’t agree with age.

People who has their own pc’s will just leave it afk and poof! Max age. Players should be putting effort to make their character stronger.

it is not a problem. people are doing the crafting for leveling in one day with less to no effort. Letting your PC on and AFK they kick you off after 1h as it is now. So it will not be possible with the AFK kick timer
Besides 10h for 10% means 100h for 100% and 300h for 300%
i think many of level 80 now get even exotics in 300h of play so I doubt anyone will let PC open that much time without playing anything because your income – gold, karma – will not increase.

You can only do crafting in 1 day if you have gold. If you have gold, means you have other character/s.

Going AFK on day 1, character 1 is NOT good.

knives.6345:

You can only do crafting in 1 day if you have gold. If you have gold, means you have other character/s.

Going AFK on day 1, character 1 is NOT good.

or you can buy gems and transform it to gold from the day 1

but letting the ironic part aside…. even if they afk form day one and they let the PC open for 300h they will not have their skills open or maxed, they won’t have gold or karma either… so why did they buy the game for?
They will just have max health and toughens… so what? it is not something that will make them survive the game

You need to take in consideration one thing. people DON’T see any numbers like levels on their characters. They will not even notice if their stats went higher or not.

They will not feel the need to level. They will just use the skills and see they level up.
The game system doesn’t show onto your screen like “you need 3h:40m:52s till next stats change” – 10% in 10h aka 1%/h is such a neglect-able amount which won’t even be notices unless you are told so by friends or other sources.

Also, the age is per character not account so you will not be able to level more alts in the same time and it is already implemented in the game as /age command and it is used for character’s birthday gifts

Currently people can level like 1level / 50 min so it is less then 80h to get to level 80 mainly using the number 1 auto-attack. With the age system implemented, they will focus more on leveling skills – aka gameplay and not crafing – to become better.

It is similar with the account magic find. I bet only a minority buys the greens from TP to max it, the rest are salvaging anything they get from drops.

Ronah.2869:

knives.6345:

You can only do crafting in 1 day if you have gold. If you have gold, means you have other character/s.

Going AFK on day 1, character 1 is NOT good.

or you can buy gems and transform it to gold from the day 1

but letting the ironic part aside…. even if they afk form day one and they let the PC open for 300h they will not have their skills open or maxed, they won’t have gold or karma either… so why did they buy the game for?
They will just have max health and toughens… so what? it is not something that will make them survive the game

You need to take in consideration one thing. people DON’T see any numbers like levels on their characters. They will not even notice if their stats went higher or not.

They will not feel the need to level. They will just use the skills and see they level up.
The game system doesn’t show onto your screen like “you need 3h:40m:52s till next stats change” – 10% in 10h aka 1%/h is such a neglect-able amount which won’t even be notices unless you are told so by friends or other sources.

Also, the age is per character not account so you will not be able to level more alts in the same time and it is already implemented in the game as /age command and it is used for character’s birthday gifts

Currently people can level like 1level / 50 min so it is less then 80h to get to level 80 mainly using the number 1 auto-attack. With the age system implemented, they will focus more on leveling skills – aka gameplay and not crafing – to become better.

It is similar with the account magic find. I bet only a minority buys the greens from TP to max it, the rest are salvaging anything they get from drops.

Buying gems and mats still puts waaay more effort than being away after playing and still getting exp.

The point I’m making is, even if the person is NOT on the PC watching their character, it’s gaining “age” (exp) and is going stronger – which is NOT supposed to happen on MMO.

knives.6345:

Ronah.2869:

knives.6345:

You can only do crafting in 1 day if you have gold. If you have gold, means you have other character/s.

Going AFK on day 1, character 1 is NOT good.

or you can buy gems and transform it to gold from the day 1

but letting the ironic part aside…. even if they afk form day one and they let the PC open for 300h they will not have their skills open or maxed, they won’t have gold or karma either… so why did they buy the game for?
They will just have max health and toughens… so what? it is not something that will make them survive the game

You need to take in consideration one thing. people DON’T see any numbers like levels on their characters. They will not even notice if their stats went higher or not.

They will not feel the need to level. They will just use the skills and see they level up.
The game system doesn’t show onto your screen like “you need 3h:40m:52s till next stats change” – 10% in 10h aka 1%/h is such a neglect-able amount which won’t even be notices unless you are told so by friends or other sources.

Also, the age is per character not account so you will not be able to level more alts in the same time and it is already implemented in the game as /age command and it is used for character’s birthday gifts

Currently people can level like 1level / 50 min so it is less then 80h to get to level 80 mainly using the number 1 auto-attack. With the age system implemented, they will focus more on leveling skills – aka gameplay and not crafing – to become better.

It is similar with the account magic find. I bet only a minority buys the greens from TP to max it, the rest are salvaging anything they get from drops.

Buying gems and mats still puts waaay more effort than being away after playing and still getting exp.

The point I’m making is, even if the person is NOT on the PC watching their character, it’s gaining “age” (exp) and is going stronger – which is NOT supposed to happen on MMO.

Ok, lets say one person lets the PC open for 300 h ~ 13 days and gets max health, max toughnes, etc. Than buys gems and turns them to gold and buys the best gear possible.
Fine.. he is still a noob in the game becasue his skills are lvl 1 so he needs to start playing to level the skills too

Now, we have a person who buys a lot of gems, puts them to gold and spends 20 h in the crafting station and gets max level and buys all the max gear.
Whhat does he get? 70 skills points, all skills unlocked, 70 trait points. and he is a noob player with all the gears and skills open for him in 20 H at the max power

The age system is more inconvenient for him them the crafting system
but for you 300h of AFKing which doesn’t give you any skill points or trait points and the skills you have are the lowest level more offending then the crafting.
Sorry, but i don’t understand your thinking

Ronah.2869:

knives.6345:

Ronah.2869:

knives.6345:

You can only do crafting in 1 day if you have gold. If you have gold, means you have other character/s.

Going AFK on day 1, character 1 is NOT good.

or you can buy gems and transform it to gold from the day 1

but letting the ironic part aside…. even if they afk form day one and they let the PC open for 300h they will not have their skills open or maxed, they won’t have gold or karma either… so why did they buy the game for?
They will just have max health and toughens… so what? it is not something that will make them survive the game

You need to take in consideration one thing. people DON’T see any numbers like levels on their characters. They will not even notice if their stats went higher or not.

They will not feel the need to level. They will just use the skills and see they level up.
The game system doesn’t show onto your screen like “you need 3h:40m:52s till next stats change” – 10% in 10h aka 1%/h is such a neglect-able amount which won’t even be notices unless you are told so by friends or other sources.

Also, the age is per character not account so you will not be able to level more alts in the same time and it is already implemented in the game as /age command and it is used for character’s birthday gifts

Currently people can level like 1level / 50 min so it is less then 80h to get to level 80 mainly using the number 1 auto-attack. With the age system implemented, they will focus more on leveling skills – aka gameplay and not crafing – to become better.

It is similar with the account magic find. I bet only a minority buys the greens from TP to max it, the rest are salvaging anything they get from drops.

Buying gems and mats still puts waaay more effort than being away after playing and still getting exp.

The point I’m making is, even if the person is NOT on the PC watching their character, it’s gaining “age” (exp) and is going stronger – which is NOT supposed to happen on MMO.

Ok, lets say one person lets the PC open for 300 h ~ 13 days and gets max health, max toughnes, etc. Than buys gems and turns them to gold and buys the best gear possible.
Fine.. he is still a noob in the game becasue his skills are lvl 1 so he needs to start playing to level the skills too

Now, we have a person who buys a lot of gems, puts them to gold and spends 20 h in the crafting station and gets max level and buys all the max gear.
Whhat does he get? 70 skills points, all skills unlocked, 70 trait points. and he is a noob player with all the gears and skills open for him in 20 H at the max power

The age system is more inconvenient for him them the crafting system
but for you 300h of AFKing which doesn’t give you any skill points or trait points and the skills you have are the lowest level more offending then the crafting.
Sorry, but i don’t understand your thinking

Again.. There is NO drawback on waiting. You are AFK. You are NOT playing the game, yet you’re character grows strong. You are at school/work/mall/friends yet your toon grows. You’re NOT doing anything inside the game other than god knows – sitting/dancing? You’re NOT playing the game.

Crafting, on the other hand is PART of the game. You have to be there to get to 80. It’s one of the option to get to 80.

My argument is not how noob the player is or how fast we’ll get to the end – my argument is about exerting effort in actually playing the game.

PS:

It’s too easy to get to 80 in this game, idk why we even have this topic. Gamers have become too lazy I think. You can get to 80 mark 1-2 weeks time.

knives.6345:

Ronah.2869:

knives.6345:

Ronah.2869:

knives.6345:

You can only do crafting in 1 day if you have gold. If you have gold, means you have other character/s.

Going AFK on day 1, character 1 is NOT good.

or you can buy gems and transform it to gold from the day 1

but letting the ironic part aside…. even if they afk form day one and they let the PC open for 300h they will not have their skills open or maxed, they won’t have gold or karma either… so why did they buy the game for?
They will just have max health and toughens… so what? it is not something that will make them survive the game

You need to take in consideration one thing. people DON’T see any numbers like levels on their characters. They will not even notice if their stats went higher or not.

They will not feel the need to level. They will just use the skills and see they level up.
The game system doesn’t show onto your screen like “you need 3h:40m:52s till next stats change” – 10% in 10h aka 1%/h is such a neglect-able amount which won’t even be notices unless you are told so by friends or other sources.

Also, the age is per character not account so you will not be able to level more alts in the same time and it is already implemented in the game as /age command and it is used for character’s birthday gifts

Currently people can level like 1level / 50 min so it is less then 80h to get to level 80 mainly using the number 1 auto-attack. With the age system implemented, they will focus more on leveling skills – aka gameplay and not crafing – to become better.

It is similar with the account magic find. I bet only a minority buys the greens from TP to max it, the rest are salvaging anything they get from drops.

Buying gems and mats still puts waaay more effort than being away after playing and still getting exp.

The point I’m making is, even if the person is NOT on the PC watching their character, it’s gaining “age” (exp) and is going stronger – which is NOT supposed to happen on MMO.

Ok, lets say one person lets the PC open for 300 h ~ 13 days and gets max health, max toughnes, etc. Than buys gems and turns them to gold and buys the best gear possible.
Fine.. he is still a noob in the game becasue his skills are lvl 1 so he needs to start playing to level the skills too

Now, we have a person who buys a lot of gems, puts them to gold and spends 20 h in the crafting station and gets max level and buys all the max gear.
Whhat does he get? 70 skills points, all skills unlocked, 70 trait points. and he is a noob player with all the gears and skills open for him in 20 H at the max power

The age system is more inconvenient for him them the crafting system
but for you 300h of AFKing which doesn’t give you any skill points or trait points and the skills you have are the lowest level more offending then the crafting.
Sorry, but i don’t understand your thinking

Again.. There is NO drawback on waiting. You are AFK. You are NOT playing the game, yet you’re character grows strong. You are at school/work/mall/friends yet your toon grows. You’re NOT doing anything inside the game other than god knows – sitting/dancing? You’re NOT playing the game.

Crafting, on the other hand is PART of the game. You have to be there to get to 80. It’s one of the option to get to 80.

My argument is not how noob the player is or how fast we’ll get to the end – my argument is about exerting effort in actually playing the game.

PS:

It’s too easy to get to 80 in this game, idk why we even have this topic. Gamers have become too lazy I think. You can get to 80 mark 1-2 weeks time.

The AFK kick off system is implemented already and can help out in the situation you describe. it can monitor the character activity and stop the aging system when the AFK system takes charge

knives.6345:

Ronah.2869:

Skills should have levels. The more you use one skill the more they level and gain power up to a max of course. It would give you the option to level more skills or stick with the ones you like

Characters should not have levels. They should have an age. every 10h of being online will raise your status points by 10% up to a max of 300%

Weapons, armors and items should not have level restrictions but power restrictions. You can equip any of them but they will vary in stats spending on your character’s age

I don’t agree with age.

People who has their own pc’s will just leave it afk and poof! Max age. Players should be putting effort to make their character stronger.

But then… what is effort. Zerging with 50 people (which I don’t do) or killing a champion solo (which I do).

Fungalfoot.7213:

Levels serve no real purpose in Guild Wars 2 and I for one would not miss them. In fact, I’d love for the stat bloat to be addressed.

Join the club.

Ronah.2869:

knives.6345:

Ronah.2869:

knives.6345:

Ronah.2869:

knives.6345:

You can only do crafting in 1 day if you have gold. If you have gold, means you have other character/s.

Going AFK on day 1, character 1 is NOT good.

or you can buy gems and transform it to gold from the day 1

but letting the ironic part aside…. even if they afk form day one and they let the PC open for 300h they will not have their skills open or maxed, they won’t have gold or karma either… so why did they buy the game for?
They will just have max health and toughens… so what? it is not something that will make them survive the game

You need to take in consideration one thing. people DON’T see any numbers like levels on their characters. They will not even notice if their stats went higher or not.

They will not feel the need to level. They will just use the skills and see they level up.
The game system doesn’t show onto your screen like “you need 3h:40m:52s till next stats change” – 10% in 10h aka 1%/h is such a neglect-able amount which won’t even be notices unless you are told so by friends or other sources.

Also, the age is per character not account so you will not be able to level more alts in the same time and it is already implemented in the game as /age command and it is used for character’s birthday gifts

Currently people can level like 1level / 50 min so it is less then 80h to get to level 80 mainly using the number 1 auto-attack. With the age system implemented, they will focus more on leveling skills – aka gameplay and not crafing – to become better.

It is similar with the account magic find. I bet only a minority buys the greens from TP to max it, the rest are salvaging anything they get from drops.

Buying gems and mats still puts waaay more effort than being away after playing and still getting exp.

The point I’m making is, even if the person is NOT on the PC watching their character, it’s gaining “age” (exp) and is going stronger – which is NOT supposed to happen on MMO.

Ok, lets say one person lets the PC open for 300 h ~ 13 days and gets max health, max toughnes, etc. Than buys gems and turns them to gold and buys the best gear possible.
Fine.. he is still a noob in the game becasue his skills are lvl 1 so he needs to start playing to level the skills too

Now, we have a person who buys a lot of gems, puts them to gold and spends 20 h in the crafting station and gets max level and buys all the max gear.
Whhat does he get? 70 skills points, all skills unlocked, 70 trait points. and he is a noob player with all the gears and skills open for him in 20 H at the max power

The age system is more inconvenient for him them the crafting system
but for you 300h of AFKing which doesn’t give you any skill points or trait points and the skills you have are the lowest level more offending then the crafting.
Sorry, but i don’t understand your thinking

Again.. There is NO drawback on waiting. You are AFK. You are NOT playing the game, yet you’re character grows strong. You are at school/work/mall/friends yet your toon grows. You’re NOT doing anything inside the game other than god knows – sitting/dancing? You’re NOT playing the game.

Crafting, on the other hand is PART of the game. You have to be there to get to 80. It’s one of the option to get to 80.

My argument is not how noob the player is or how fast we’ll get to the end – my argument is about exerting effort in actually playing the game.

PS:

It’s too easy to get to 80 in this game, idk why we even have this topic. Gamers have become too lazy I think. You can get to 80 mark 1-2 weeks time.

The AFK kick off system is implemented already and can help out in the situation you describe. it can monitor the character activity and stop the aging system when the AFK system takes charge

Still, people can alt tab, move 1 square to the front, go back being AFK, gain xp while doing nothing related to the game…

Same scenario as I described.

Sirendor.1394:

knives.6345:

Ronah.2869:

Skills should have levels. The more you use one skill the more they level and gain power up to a max of course. It would give you the option to level more skills or stick with the ones you like

Characters should not have levels. They should have an age. every 10h of being online will raise your status points by 10% up to a max of 300%

Weapons, armors and items should not have level restrictions but power restrictions. You can equip any of them but they will vary in stats spending on your character’s age

I don’t agree with age.

People who has their own pc’s will just leave it afk and poof! Max age. Players should be putting effort to make their character stronger.

But then… what is effort. Zerging with 50 people (which I don’t do) or killing a champion solo (which I do).

In the topic’s context…
Effort is spending time to do something relevant to the game and gaining something relevant to the effort. Note that I used “relevant”, not “equal” to – just to stop people commenting about RNG loots vs effort.

And yes, while Zerging is being frowned upon (idk why), it is considered effort since you took time to do something to gain something…

knives.6345:

Ronah.2869:

knives.6345:

Ronah.2869:

knives.6345:

Ronah.2869:

knives.6345:

You can only do crafting in 1 day if you have gold. If you have gold, means you have other character/s.

Going AFK on day 1, character 1 is NOT good.

or you can buy gems and transform it to gold from the day 1

but letting the ironic part aside…. even if they afk form day one and they let the PC open for 300h they will not have their skills open or maxed, they won’t have gold or karma either… so why did they buy the game for?
They will just have max health and toughens… so what? it is not something that will make them survive the game

You need to take in consideration one thing. people DON’T see any numbers like levels on their characters. They will not even notice if their stats went higher or not.

They will not feel the need to level. They will just use the skills and see they level up.
The game system doesn’t show onto your screen like “you need 3h:40m:52s till next stats change” – 10% in 10h aka 1%/h is such a neglect-able amount which won’t even be notices unless you are told so by friends or other sources.

Also, the age is per character not account so you will not be able to level more alts in the same time and it is already implemented in the game as /age command and it is used for character’s birthday gifts

Currently people can level like 1level / 50 min so it is less then 80h to get to level 80 mainly using the number 1 auto-attack. With the age system implemented, they will focus more on leveling skills – aka gameplay and not crafing – to become better.

It is similar with the account magic find. I bet only a minority buys the greens from TP to max it, the rest are salvaging anything they get from drops.

Buying gems and mats still puts waaay more effort than being away after playing and still getting exp.

The point I’m making is, even if the person is NOT on the PC watching their character, it’s gaining “age” (exp) and is going stronger – which is NOT supposed to happen on MMO.

Ok, lets say one person lets the PC open for 300 h ~ 13 days and gets max health, max toughnes, etc. Than buys gems and turns them to gold and buys the best gear possible.
Fine.. he is still a noob in the game becasue his skills are lvl 1 so he needs to start playing to level the skills too

Now, we have a person who buys a lot of gems, puts them to gold and spends 20 h in the crafting station and gets max level and buys all the max gear.
Whhat does he get? 70 skills points, all skills unlocked, 70 trait points. and he is a noob player with all the gears and skills open for him in 20 H at the max power

The age system is more inconvenient for him them the crafting system
but for you 300h of AFKing which doesn’t give you any skill points or trait points and the skills you have are the lowest level more offending then the crafting.
Sorry, but i don’t understand your thinking

Again.. There is NO drawback on waiting. You are AFK. You are NOT playing the game, yet you’re character grows strong. You are at school/work/mall/friends yet your toon grows. You’re NOT doing anything inside the game other than god knows – sitting/dancing? You’re NOT playing the game.

Crafting, on the other hand is PART of the game. You have to be there to get to 80. It’s one of the option to get to 80.

My argument is not how noob the player is or how fast we’ll get to the end – my argument is about exerting effort in actually playing the game.

PS:

It’s too easy to get to 80 in this game, idk why we even have this topic. Gamers have become too lazy I think. You can get to 80 mark 1-2 weeks time.

The AFK kick off system is implemented already and can help out in the situation you describe. it can monitor the character activity and stop the aging system when the AFK system takes charge

Still, people can alt tab, move 1 square to the front, go back being AFK, gain xp while doing nothing related to the game…

Same scenario as I described.

the whole thread started because the levels are segregating the players. What is your solution of eliminating the levels while my idea is not of your likings.
Besides, the idea i had is not entirelly mine it is just adapted to fit GW2 becasue it is taken from Age of Wusho where people are gaining exp by meditating aka AFKing and then spend it into leveling skills of their likings.

Ronah.2869:

knives.6345:

Ronah.2869:

knives.6345:

Ronah.2869:

knives.6345:

Ronah.2869:

knives.6345:

You can only do crafting in 1 day if you have gold. If you have gold, means you have other character/s.

Going AFK on day 1, character 1 is NOT good.

or you can buy gems and transform it to gold from the day 1

but letting the ironic part aside…. even if they afk form day one and they let the PC open for 300h they will not have their skills open or maxed, they won’t have gold or karma either… so why did they buy the game for?
They will just have max health and toughens… so what? it is not something that will make them survive the game

You need to take in consideration one thing. people DON’T see any numbers like levels on their characters. They will not even notice if their stats went higher or not.

They will not feel the need to level. They will just use the skills and see they level up.
The game system doesn’t show onto your screen like “you need 3h:40m:52s till next stats change” – 10% in 10h aka 1%/h is such a neglect-able amount which won’t even be notices unless you are told so by friends or other sources.

Also, the age is per character not account so you will not be able to level more alts in the same time and it is already implemented in the game as /age command and it is used for character’s birthday gifts

Currently people can level like 1level / 50 min so it is less then 80h to get to level 80 mainly using the number 1 auto-attack. With the age system implemented, they will focus more on leveling skills – aka gameplay and not crafing – to become better.

It is similar with the account magic find. I bet only a minority buys the greens from TP to max it, the rest are salvaging anything they get from drops.

Buying gems and mats still puts waaay more effort than being away after playing and still getting exp.

The point I’m making is, even if the person is NOT on the PC watching their character, it’s gaining “age” (exp) and is going stronger – which is NOT supposed to happen on MMO.

Ok, lets say one person lets the PC open for 300 h ~ 13 days and gets max health, max toughnes, etc. Than buys gems and turns them to gold and buys the best gear possible.
Fine.. he is still a noob in the game becasue his skills are lvl 1 so he needs to start playing to level the skills too

Now, we have a person who buys a lot of gems, puts them to gold and spends 20 h in the crafting station and gets max level and buys all the max gear.
Whhat does he get? 70 skills points, all skills unlocked, 70 trait points. and he is a noob player with all the gears and skills open for him in 20 H at the max power

The age system is more inconvenient for him them the crafting system
but for you 300h of AFKing which doesn’t give you any skill points or trait points and the skills you have are the lowest level more offending then the crafting.
Sorry, but i don’t understand your thinking

Again.. There is NO drawback on waiting. You are AFK. You are NOT playing the game, yet you’re character grows strong. You are at school/work/mall/friends yet your toon grows. You’re NOT doing anything inside the game other than god knows – sitting/dancing? You’re NOT playing the game.

Crafting, on the other hand is PART of the game. You have to be there to get to 80. It’s one of the option to get to 80.

My argument is not how noob the player is or how fast we’ll get to the end – my argument is about exerting effort in actually playing the game.

PS:

It’s too easy to get to 80 in this game, idk why we even have this topic. Gamers have become too lazy I think. You can get to 80 mark 1-2 weeks time.

The AFK kick off system is implemented already and can help out in the situation you describe. it can monitor the character activity and stop the aging system when the AFK system takes charge

Still, people can alt tab, move 1 square to the front, go back being AFK, gain xp while doing nothing related to the game…

Same scenario as I described.

the whole thread started because the levels are segregating the players. What is your solution of eliminating the levels while my idea is not of your likings.
Besides, the idea i had is not entirelly mine it is just adapted to fit GW2 becasue it is taken from Age of Wusho where people are gaining exp by meditating aka AFKing and then spend it into leveling skills of their likings.

I don’t have a solution because I don’t see any reason why levels should be eliminated/replaced. It will just become trivial.

I never felt segregated because if you go to wvwvw/spvp, you are uplevelled. In pve – you’re NOT supposed to handle “harder” content if you are “young”. Imagine a novice fighting Zhaitan. -_-

knives.6345:

SHM.7628:

knives.6345:

People asking to abolish a leveling system on an MMORPG? What’s next? Abolish gear rarity? Give BiS gears the moment you create a character?

I would say no. Leveling gives you a sense of progression/competition and a sense of hard work, dedication and commitment. You need to get to point A to get access to point A skills, to wear point A gears and to play equally with point A players.

Is it that far fetched? The downscale you when you enter a lower level area. That is kind of like doing away with levels. In the new" nightmare" instance they bump everyone up to level 80.

You still need to amass skill points for progression or your skills are locked. I think it can be done. You can make skill points and trait points gainable from skill challenges and by moving the XP bar as well.

What practical purpose does the levels really serve in this kind of system anyway? Even with armor and weapons. Its all basically throw away stuff until you’re maxed. This would really help simplify crafting too. As it stands, its all too confusing and convoluted.

One level, go wherever you want. Do whatever you want to do. Sounds pretty darn good to me. Plus think back to GW1. You could get to level 20 and get max armor pretty quickly. That wasn’t what made you good. You unlocked skills and learned how to use them. You unlocked your heroes and title track, learned to run dungeons. Then you were good You weren’t just good because you were level 20.

Uh… Traits? Stats?

I really don’t see a problem with this. Base stats would stay essentially the same. They more or less control your base stats with downscaling and upscaling anyway. Stats would be increased by your armor/weapon rarity, upgrade components and trait bonuses.

knives.6345:

I don’t have a solution because I don’t see any reason why levels should be eliminated/replaced. It will just become trivial.

I never felt segregated because if you go to wvwvw/spvp, you are uplevelled. In pve – you’re NOT supposed to handle “harder” content if you are “young”. Imagine a novice fighting Zhaitan. -_-

levels should go away. There is no real purpose of having them after lvl 30. The downscale system is done so the whole game will make you feel like a noob. Sorry, they call it challenging, I call it a hit in your power. What do you think people are doing the trains in Queensdale? for loot?
maybe but more are doing it for leveling up
Why? because the NUMBERS gives them a goal and after the number 80 is reached they say there is nothing to do. Why?
because the whole content is based on levels that actually don’t matter. You can easily get killed in 3 shots by a grub in Queensdale or a risen bird in Orr. You don’t feel strong at all so that is why people prefer playing in QD with their lvl 80s because it gives them a sense of being stronger then a noob
The levels ARE ALREADY trivial in the game. My age suggestion will just replace them with somersetting that will go at least for a while against the rushers. Will make players long in the game at least and not just running the best leveling spots People nowadays don’t want to level through the game, they want to PLAY the game.
The age of grinding levels should have been long forgotten but it seems GW2 fall into the same trend.
The first thing you hear from a new player coming in the game is: “What is the best way to get max level?” and the answer is: Do the hearts which are boring, do the crafting but you need a lot of money or do the train in Queensdale"
By the system i suggested, the answer will be.
" in this game the skills have levels not the character. To become stronger you need to level your skills doing anything you like in the game. The character has an age monitor which will give you 10% of start increase in every 10h of game time but that is negelctable while this is a game based on skills. Skills have from 5-10 levels each and to beat harder zones the skills need to be stronger."

Sirendor.1394:

Guhracie.3419:

I’m going to have to disagree. Levels in GW2 are much less important than in most other RPG systems. GW2 does an excellent job with scaling, as well, in most areas.

I’m going to have to disagree to disagreeing. Levels serve no purpose except to stop newbies from getting killed by the first boss they encounter.

Solution: add a tutorial…

>wants a tutorial
>ignores the fact that the first thing you do when you create a new character is an extremely easy instance that gets you accustomed to movement and aspects of combat

Ronah.2869:

knives.6345:

I don’t have a solution because I don’t see any reason why levels should be eliminated/replaced. It will just become trivial.

I never felt segregated because if you go to wvwvw/spvp, you are uplevelled. In pve – you’re NOT supposed to handle “harder” content if you are “young”. Imagine a novice fighting Zhaitan. -_-

levels should go away. There is no real purpose of having them after lvl 30. The downscale system is done so the whole game will make you feel like a noob. Sorry, they call it challenging, I call it a hit in your power. What do you think people are doing the trains in Queensdale? for loot?
maybe but more are doing it for leveling up
Why? because the NUMBERS gives them a goal and after the number 80 is reached they say there is nothing to do. Why?
because the whole content is based on levels that actually don’t matter. You can easily get killed in 3 shots by a grub in Queensdale or a risen bird in Orr. You don’t feel strong at all so that is why people prefer playing in QD with their lvl 80s because it gives them a sense of being stronger then a noob
The levels ARE ALREADY trivial in the game. My age suggestion will just replace them with somersetting that will go at least for a while against the rushers. Will make players long in the game at least and not just running the best leveling spots People nowadays don’t want to level through the game, they want to PLAY the game.
The age of grinding levels should have been long forgotten but it seems GW2 fall into the same trend.
The first thing you hear from a new player coming in the game is: “What is the best way to get max level?” and the answer is: Do the hearts which are boring, do the crafting but you need a lot of money or do the train in Queensdale"
By the system i suggested, the answer will be.
" in this game the skills have levels not the character. To become stronger you need to level your skills doing anything you like in the game. The character has an age monitor which will give you 10% of start increase in every 10h of game time but that is negelctable while this is a game based on skills. Skills have from 5-10 levels each and to beat harder zones the skills need to be stronger."

Aging is trivial for the points I mentioned, which seems to be ignored almost all the times. You are NOT playing the game – no part of the game is being used for AFK leveling.

My suggestion, if you would want me to give one – is to remove the exp from crafting, add level restrictions to zones, remove uplevel and downlevel. Let them use what they worked so hard.

That way, levels would become MORE useful, players would be enticed to actually move their kittens, and actually play the game.

While we’re at it, since zones are now level-locked, items specific to the zone cannot be gathered unless a player reached a specific level – inclining players to seek the top most level of progression.

I don’t want to sway from the MMO basics of playing. Let’s not trivialize the basic character progression system for the sake of making it more useful..

knives.6345:

I don’t want to sway from the MMO basics of playing. Let’s not trivialize the basic character progression system for the sake of making it more useful..

Have you heard there are a lot of games giving you exp for being offline? How is that possible that “they trivialize the basic character progression system”?
Because the character progression in your opinion is only based on numbers you achieve by hitting auto-attack meaning you “are doing something”

Sorry, but with people like you – living by the rules, thinking by the rules- we would still use potions to heal up and not auto-regenerate health. Thank God they took that system away from GW2 at the right moment

GW2 was supposed to be an innovative game not an exact copy of other games.
Levels and level requirements makes it be one of many MMOs out there, nothing different.
The only difference are: adding quests every 2 weeks, the jumping puzzles and the personal story which are not seen in other MMOs.
The rest: dynamic events, hearts, vistas are just a different, more convenient forms of putting the kill 10 rats quests in the game: innovative in its way but not ground breaking.

Ronah.2869:

knives.6345:

I don’t want to sway from the MMO basics of playing. Let’s not trivialize the basic character progression system for the sake of making it more useful..

Have you heard there are a lot of games giving you exp for being offline? How is that possible that “they trivialize the basic character progression system”?
Because the character progression in your opinion is only based on numbers you achieve by hitting auto-attack meaning you “are doing something”

Sorry, but with people like you – living by the rules, thinking by the rules- we would still use potions to heal up and not auto-regenerate health. Thank God they took that system away from GW2 at the right moment

GW2 was supposed to be an innovative game not an exact copy of other games.
Levels and level requirements makes it be one of many MMOs out there, nothing different.
The only difference are: adding quests every 2 weeks, the jumping puzzles and the personal story which are not seen in other MMOs.
The rest: dynamic events, hearts, vistas are just a different, more convenient forms of putting the kill 10 rats quests in the game: innovative in its way but not ground breaking.

GW2 IS different from almost any other MMO.

Auto-attack? (the heck did you get that). I said play the game to gain exp. But anyways, since you’re not getting my point obviously, let’s just be mature and agree to disagree.

I still don’t like your idea about aging, btw…

RyuDragnier.9476:

Sirendor.1394:

Guhracie.3419:

I’m going to have to disagree. Levels in GW2 are much less important than in most other RPG systems. GW2 does an excellent job with scaling, as well, in most areas.

I’m going to have to disagree to disagreeing. Levels serve no purpose except to stop newbies from getting killed by the first boss they encounter.

Solution: add a tutorial…

>wants a tutorial
>ignores the fact that the first thing you do when you create a new character is an extremely easy instance that gets you accustomed to movement and aspects of combat

I see it more as a in-depth tutorial introducing you to your class. Right now ‘beginner instances’ are the same for every class and they don’t really learn you anything.
So instead:

• Learn to dodge
• Learn what traits are about
• Learn weaponswapping
• Learn how skills work
• Learn basic movement
• Learn specific class mechanics

and so on…

And once you know all that… there you go you’re max level, each zone is accessible for you and you can gear up ‘level 80’ armour.

Does this mean you get everything at once?
Nope: you’ll still have to unlock skills, traits, learn builds, dungeons and so on.

knives.6345:

GW2 IS different from almost any other MMO.

Auto-attack? (the heck did you get that). I said play the game to gain exp.

Well this is what I do for the last 9+ months and 12th lvl 80s since I finished world completion with the first character. There is no progression in this game other then the numbers aside the yellow bar. The skills are the same, the traits are not so appealing even if now you see what skills they affect.
And GW2 is not different. it is just covered in different skin
Maybe you haven’t played many MMOs to understand that. it is not an action game, it is not an rpg, it is not a traditional MMO, it is not a Si Fi,, it is not a medieval war, it is not many things. it is a Hybrid that tried to be all and it is nothing.
It has some good concepts like no loot/resource steal and not party lottery for the group loot, but other then that is kill 10 rats game
the dragons are not seen in the game as a threat to the world even the whole game was marketed about these dragons. Every zone is basically the same and they can be done in circles. no matter what level you are you are every where easily killed so there is no progression at all except the numbers.

And if you like or not my idea is a matter of taste not functionality.

Sirendor.1394:

Gabby.3205:

Knighthonor.4061:

Gabby.3205:

But you can’t sneeze without getting exp in this game. I wouldn’t call that grinding at all.

thats not important. its still a grind, because its something that prevents you from doing something. you can sneeze and gain exp for you, but that may not be fun to sneeze for hours on end just to unlock the fun elements of the game, which is exploration, and build making.

Grinding is, by defintion, doing the same thing over and over. There are so many things you can do to level that it simply does not fit the definition of grinding. IF you want to grind, you can, but it is not necessary to grind to level.

That’s wrong. If you have leveled 8 level 80s (like me), speak to me again.

I leveled 7 level 80s. I guess it is not enough =/
I guess I need one more to start grinding, then. Is that so?