Making new chars as a Veteran of the game

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Posted by: Chaialyna.1023

Chaialyna.1023

I leveled a new charr ele to 80 post-NPE using a level 20 scroll, some minimal map exploration, personal story and EoTM. I can live with the NPE by itself but the new trait system is aggravating. I ended up buying trait books for him with my skillpoint stockpiling asura ele but just enough for one build. If he gets any extra traits during gameplay, well and good, but there’s not much build flexibility available for him at the moment.

Right now I’ll level the rest of the alts I have, but I don’t anticipate starting any new ones.

Alts-R-Us ~ All professions at 80 ~ Still leveling characters.
Main? What “main”? I play all of them sooner or later.

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Posted by: Herr der Friedhoefe.2490

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490

Any other vets find the NPE and trait changes so off-putting that they just can’t make new characters anymore and struggle to keep interest in any character made after April 15th in general?

Yep. I have absolutely no interest to create another character, no matter how much I would like to try a guardian.

My posts are facts as I know them, or my own opinion, and do not represent any guild.

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Posted by: Domino.1359

Domino.1359

It really killed my interest in creating or continuing leveling new characters any more – I used to be on a fever leveling new characters just to try it out, but these changes make everything a painstaking chore.

If they add new races or classes I will level a new character, but until then, I can’t even recommend this game to a friend because I myself don’t want to go through the leveling process!

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Posted by: Thaddeus.4891

Thaddeus.4891

Ya, its horrible. I’m so glad that I made my 8 professions before the change. If they ever add a new profession I have a stack of tome of knowledge and skill point scrolls to reach 80 right away before buying all the trait that I need, but still that way, its ackward.

I liked the idea of quest or buying the new grandmaster trait they added, but for all trait, this can be costly for a new player that want to experiment with different trait or just annoying for a vet.

Thaddeauz [xQCx]- QC GUILD

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Posted by: TexZero.7910

TexZero.7910

100% will not make another character.

The changes to the trait system are so asinine and should have never occurred.

They should give all players core traits and only have you “hunt” for new/future trait releases.

But this has been said to death. Maybe one day, they will fix it, just like one day we will have meaningful WvW updates.

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Posted by: Devildoc.6721

Devildoc.6721

Only if you like sPVP, which is not for everyone.

Thus, most.

Although the new daily rewards and login rewards are pretty nice for alt leveling, not near as good as PvP though.

I wouldn’t say most people play or enjoy sPVP.

Zapp – 80 Asura Afromancer

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Posted by: PookieDaWombat.6209

PookieDaWombat.6209

I have created four new players since the change. I have enjoyed leveling them. I send them to the events to earn their attributes. They actually level fast enough just doing map completion. That is just my impression.

Leveling a toon isn’t a problem. in fact it happens WAY faster now than it once did if consistantly playing/crafting/playing PS when it comes up and doing the odd event on the maps you’re on while opening the map you are in.

The problem is you end up with a toon with horrible traits or barely any traits at all and nothing that looks like a concise build and if you want a build you are more or less forced to find one on a website and buy up the necessary traits and live with it.

No experimentation, no playing with builds as you leveled as you once could do, and less idea what builds are really out there through gameplay. Just a bunch of meta nonsense or people running around with incomplete toons.

[OTR] – Greck Howlbane – Guardian
Soraya Mayhew – Thief
Melissa Koris – Engie – SF for Life!

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Posted by: PookieDaWombat.6209

PookieDaWombat.6209

I leveled a new charr ele to 80 post-NPE using a level 20 scroll, some minimal map exploration, personal story and EoTM. I can live with the NPE by itself but the new trait system is aggravating. I ended up buying trait books for him with my skillpoint stockpiling asura ele but just enough for one build. If he gets any extra traits during gameplay, well and good, but there’s not much build flexibility available for him at the moment.

Right now I’ll level the rest of the alts I have, but I don’t anticipate starting any new ones.

i have to ask how’d you manage that since I was fairly certain that since you paid skill points for the guides that they would be soul bound (as everything else bought with SP is in the game) and therefore couldn’t buy them for another toon on your account even if they were the same class.

[OTR] – Greck Howlbane – Guardian
Soraya Mayhew – Thief
Melissa Koris – Engie – SF for Life!

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Posted by: Devildoc.6721

Devildoc.6721

I have created four new players since the change. I have enjoyed leveling them. I send them to the events to earn their attributes. They actually level fast enough just doing map completion. That is just my impression.

Leveling a toon isn’t a problem. in fact it happens WAY faster now than it once did if consistantly playing/crafting/playing PS when it comes up and doing the odd event on the maps you’re on while opening the map you are in.

The problem is you end up with a toon with horrible traits or barely any traits at all and nothing that looks like a concise build and if you want a build you are more or less forced to find one on a website and buy up the necessary traits and live with it.

No experimentation, no playing with builds as you leveled as you once could do, and less idea what builds are really out there through gameplay. Just a bunch of meta nonsense or people running around with incomplete toons.

This mostly.

I mean the last character I leveled up was my newest one actually which at first I wanted to level up through EotM because people said that was the fastest way to go if you don’t like sPVP. I got into EotM, gained some levels, got a trait point… and then realized wait, I have no traits unlocked. I then had to do leveling via 100%‘ing zones which as I said before, i already have a few 100% world exploration characters so I have no desire to 100% zones anymore (especially the hearts, I’d be glad to never do a heart again, they’re the worst content in the game and I’m so glad none of the new zones have them). People say buy the traits but that’s a lot of gold and skillpoints, when I’d rather convert skillpoint scrolls to eldritch scrolls and make things to sell to MAKE money not throw them away and throw money away to make up for Anet’s horrible new trait system.

Fortunately my Engineer and Necro that are still in the leveling process are older characters so they’re grandfathered in, but my last class.. ranger.. was made just after April 15th and was originally going to be my character for testing the trait changes but, well, not that much a fan of the class so there wasn’t much motivation to level him anyway.

But man, just, not looking forward to grinding hearts anymore, I HATE hearts. That’s probably the worst thing about them, that and story mode dungeons (which nobody ever does, so you just have to buy those traits, you can’t even get guild members to help you on those because they just say “just buy them”)

and with the buy route, you end up only buying traits that you “need” so that you never AND THE ROCK MEANS NEVER get to experiment with builds while leveling up.

Zapp – 80 Asura Afromancer

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Posted by: Olmech.6237

Olmech.6237

Just completed 3 post-patch level 80s. All were done the slow way slogging through hearts and events. It was a breeze. I dont see the issue here aside from the having to wait for dual wield skill till level 7 and the traits arent even a big deal. I think that it could use a work over but if it stays like it is I could care less. I wont be level 6 forever. Really leveling new characters is too easy if anything.

So that puts me at 20 or so level 80s. If I had one gripe as a veteran it would be the lack of sufficient leveling gear. How very much I would love to craft a set of armor for my alts that scaled as they leveled. Just one less thing ya know?

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Posted by: naiasonod.9265

naiasonod.9265

Any other vets find the NPE and trait changes so off-putting that they just can’t make new characters anymore and struggle to keep interest in any character made after April 15th in general?

I have 2 characters in that position that I’ve been working at getting the traits for just to see how bad it is and still having to end up forking over gold for about half of them, and the other, I haven’t even bothered with. I deleted an old character because I decided I don’t like Charr for that class and now I just have an empty slot (on top of my already empty keyfarming slot) and every time I think it might be nice to make a new race/class combo for fun.. I remember the NPE and trait changes.. and change my mind and log out instead.

So they’re just 2 barren slots. Can’t get refunds on them, and I just can’t see myself making a new character and slogging through the new trait system much less all the level gates of the NPE again.

I find the NPE to be weird and offputting, but the trait locking scheme to be downright alienating. I could live with the NPE on its own.

If the trait locking scheme were a tangible object, I’d advise that it be burned and never spoken of again, however.

One is only the smartest person in the room if they are alone.

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Posted by: Infernia.9847

Infernia.9847

The NPE is okay except for a few of the things that were removed for simplicity that I enjoyed doing. However it also brought about a change in the Personal Story that I really didn’t like. I know Anet has said they will fix the story line to be less disjointed; I just hope that they return the lost story arc.

The trait system is the one thing that will keep me from creating a new character. I love alts but that won’t bring me back to the process. Until something is done I will refrain from buying another character slot. And that includes a new race or class being introduced.
I am too much of an experimental builder to create a character with no depth because it cost too much to try something new.

Blackgate : Level 80 Ranger, Necro, Guardian, Warrior
Devs: Trait Challenge Issued

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Posted by: blakdoxa.7520

blakdoxa.7520

The only part of leveling new characters I don’t like is the trait system. I prefer the NPE however. I feel like characters level much faster.

And now, with the tomes I get in both PvP and even PvE, it’s less of a chore, assuming I want to use tomes to level. I hardly PvP at all as a percentage of time played, and I have over 40 level up scrolls.

But the trait system is admittedly frustrating. It means I’ll unlock or buy only what I need and not experiment with anything else.

Sorry to pick on you but I had to bold this part… Seems like Anet did what they wanted to accomplish.
For those that say it’s not bad… Of course it doesn’t feel bad if you’re going to just use tomes to skip all or the majority of the leveling. Actually experience. With a mesmer. All the way to 80.

Devona’s Rest

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Posted by: Lydell.8713

Lydell.8713

Very annoyed, yeah. I levelled up an alt to 80 using tomes that I had collected through pvp a couple months ago… Didn’t even know all that much about the changes made to traits. And here I find myself with a level 80 that has no traits available unless I whip out a ton of gold or go on an excruciating egg hunt across the entire map.
As a result, my mesmer just sits there on the character selection screen, watching me with pleading eyes while I pick others to play instead.

That’s cruel, Anet. Think of the alts.

-Blackgate-

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Posted by: Sube Dai.8496

Sube Dai.8496

A level 20 scroll, a few tomes, a birthday booster and 15 hours in eotm, as a vet it’s pretty easy to hit max level without much effort or time invested.

The trait thing sucks, but as a vet you probably have some idea of what you’re going to use the character for. The few characters I’ve leveled since the NPE just use meta builds, so I don’t have to unlock every trait. Both the gold cost and the skill point cost of unlocking a few traits is negligible, given that most of what you do at 80 gives scrolls and gold.

Exactly. I can’t believe ppl still complain about this…

John Snowman [GLTY]
Space Marine Z [GLTY]

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Posted by: Rasimir.6239

Rasimir.6239

But man, just, not looking forward to grinding hearts anymore, I HATE hearts. That’s probably the worst thing about them, that and story mode dungeons (which nobody ever does, so you just have to buy those traits, you can’t even get guild members to help you on those because they just say “just buy them”)

I’ve gotten three post-April characters to 80 so far (4th in progress), and I had a completely oposite experience. The story dungeon traits were literally the easiest traits for all three characters to get. There’s always people around looking for groups for those dungeons (mostly for trait unlocking), and in the event nothing showed up on the lfg tool, I just advertised a group myself, and it would fill quickly. Nobody would expect a perfect run (especially since half the group or more would be on low-levels anyway), but people were generally nice and relaxed. I rarely ever try to talk friends and guildies into story dungeon runs any more, since it’s much easier to just pug them.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

The only part of leveling new characters I don’t like is the trait system. I prefer the NPE however. I feel like characters level much faster.

And now, with the tomes I get in both PvP and even PvE, it’s less of a chore, assuming I want to use tomes to level. I hardly PvP at all as a percentage of time played, and I have over 40 level up scrolls.

But the trait system is admittedly frustrating. It means I’ll unlock or buy only what I need and not experiment with anything else.

Sorry to pick on you but I had to bold this part… Seems like Anet did what they wanted to accomplish.
For those that say it’s not bad… Of course it doesn’t feel bad if you’re going to just use tomes to skip all or the majority of the leveling. Actually experience. With a mesmer. All the way to 80.

I’ve leveled a mesmer since the patch all the way to 80 without using tomes or scrolls and I had little problem…but I’m very good on a mesmer. It was the second profession I leveled and the one I played the most. I surmise anyone who wasn’t intimately familiar with mesmers would be at a loss.

I don’t mind the leveling system as it stands now, except for the trait bit. The trait stuff I hate, because I have a lot of alts and I don’t want to buy traits on all of them, nor do I want to repeat the same specific content 20 times to unlock them all.

So I make less characters now.

It’s worse than it was, but it’s probably not as kittenome people make it out to be…except maybe if you’re leveling a mesmer. lol

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Posted by: Targren.6073

Targren.6073

if you think that’s bad try being a new player. There are limitations that make no sense. Like being unable to see vistas and points of interest on the map until you hit level 18.

Obviously, new players are akin to infants, and are susceptible to overstimulation. If you could see all those red triangles and bichromatic squares, you’d become confused, start frothing at the mouth, have a mental breakdown, go on a shooting spree, and not buy gems for cash to buy gold!

It would, as you can see, be utter pandemonium.

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Posted by: Chaialyna.1023

Chaialyna.1023

i have to ask how’d you manage that since I was fairly certain that since you paid skill points for the guides that they would be soul bound (as everything else bought with SP is in the game) and therefore couldn’t buy them for another toon on your account even if they were the same class.

I would have thought so as well, but it turns out the skill books are account bound and transferable via the bank. The catch is that you can only buy books for your profession, so for example my ele can only buy ele books, not guardian or engineering ones.

It only helps if you’re leveling a second character of a profession you already have at 80. Not so much if it’s a different profession.

Alts-R-Us ~ All professions at 80 ~ Still leveling characters.
Main? What “main”? I play all of them sooner or later.

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Posted by: Zaklex.6308

Zaklex.6308

Apparently I’m in the minority here as I have no problem with either the new Trait system(with the exception of a few methods for acquiring some of the traits) or NPE. First off, the NPE problems have been blown way out of proportion, I’m not doing anything different than I was before. There’s nothing stopping me from going anywhere I want that is zone appropriate or even above level. The only thing is the messed up story, which they have said they’re working on fixing(and for those that think it’s taking to long, it’s not as easy you might imagine).

As for the Trait system, I’ll agree that the acquisition of some traits did not get completely thought out, but I see how they were trying to get people to explore different aspects of the game to acquire their traits and also provide the option of purchasing those traits that you didn’t want to acquire because they were behind something you didn’t want or wouldn’t do(there’s nothing that you can’t do to acquire the traits). As for them not being accessible at the level you unlock them, really, is it that important to have traits before level 80? No, there’s absolutely no reason in PvE(I’m specifying) to even need traits before level 80, and you can even get away without them in WvW(you’ll be less effective but then maybe you need to be more skillful and tactical?). I’m not saying it’s perfect, some of the choices to lock the Traits behind aren’t exactly everyone’s cup of tea, and I personally think they should even spread them around more and divide them up to be more profession specific and placed behind content that might lean towards that profession.

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Posted by: Allisa Wonderland.8192

Allisa Wonderland.8192

20 characters now. No problems. Happy with what it is currently.

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Posted by: Trinnitty.8256

Trinnitty.8256

ya I agree the new trait unlocking system is total garbage.

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Posted by: CrashTestAuto.9108

CrashTestAuto.9108

A hidden issue with the system is that I actually levelled up a couple of characters after the trait change, but apart from one (who I got full world completion on and still only has one build available because I specifically hunted for it) they’re all parked at the end of JPs or in LA. It isn’t just that levelling is bad, it’s that there’s no fun in experimenting with builds because you can’t try them out. I don’t want to gear anyone up because I don’t know what I want them to be.

But yeah, despise the system to the point that it makes me not want to play, and has stopped me buying gems and character slots more than once.

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Posted by: Draknar.5748

Draknar.5748

Like the new leveling. Dislike the trait system. If I were new, I suppose it would be almost like a scavenger hunt. But as a veteran who has all classes with all traits unlocked, it’s a real pain unlocking them all over again when I make a duplicate class.

I won’t stop because I can’t stop.

It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….

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Posted by: Sube Dai.8496

Sube Dai.8496

To everyone complaining about trait acquisition…people asked for it!

Lots of people!

They wanted to recreate the skill hunting experience of gw1 which is more or less what the new system is.

John Snowman [GLTY]
Space Marine Z [GLTY]

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Posted by: naiasonod.9265

naiasonod.9265

To everyone complaining about trait acquisition…people asked for it!

Lots of people!

They wanted to recreate the skill hunting experience of gw1 which is more or less what the new system is.

Would you kindly link us to where people asked for this hot mess? I could be wrong, but I have no recollection of anyone, let alone many, asking for this.

One is only the smartest person in the room if they are alone.

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Posted by: Phoebe Ascension.8437

Phoebe Ascension.8437

Yes OP i have the same feelings. I got got loads of tomes of knowledges wich could fix some of it, but then the traits put me off. Pay 200 skill points (scrolls so can transfer) + 50g for all reasonable traits? Geez. So you basically don’t do it. And the char feels naked or ‘a new grind’. Glad i got 10×80 before that patch but still. Very annoying. I would remake my mesmer human and sylvari if these ‘grinds’ wouldnt exist for new characters.

Legendary weapons can be hidden now!
No excuse anymore for not giving ‘hide mounts’-option
No thanks to unidentified weapons.

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Posted by: Wetpaw.3487

Wetpaw.3487

Any other vets find the NPE and trait changes so off-putting that they just can’t make new characters anymore and struggle to keep interest in any character made after April 15th in general?

I have 2 characters in that position that I’ve been working at getting the traits for just to see how bad it is and still having to end up forking over gold for about half of them, and the other, I haven’t even bothered with. I deleted an old character because I decided I don’t like Charr for that class and now I just have an empty slot (on top of my already empty keyfarming slot) and every time I think it might be nice to make a new race/class combo for fun.. I remember the NPE and trait changes.. and change my mind and log out instead.

So they’re just 2 barren slots. Can’t get refunds on them, and I just can’t see myself making a new character and slogging through the new trait system much less all the level gates of the NPE again.

I gave it a try w/the extra character slot I have (I have yet to buy a character slot), and I definitely prefer the previous way to level. But that’s ok, now I have another bank alt parked in LA.

JQ Druid

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Posted by: Devildoc.6721

Devildoc.6721

To everyone complaining about trait acquisition…people asked for it!

Lots of people!

They wanted to recreate the skill hunting experience of gw1 which is more or less what the new system is.

We didn’t ask for traits to be on the last step of an event chain in an almost empty zone that never gets used and frequently gets stuck

We didn’t ask for 100%’ing zones to unlock a trait.

If anyone asked for hunting like skill hunting, we were expecting them to just be on champions/veterans in the zones, or world bosses that are on a schedule that people regularly do anyway, not things that are broken.

Zapp – 80 Asura Afromancer

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Posted by: CrashTestAuto.9108

CrashTestAuto.9108

We didn’t ask for traits to be on the last step of an event chain in an almost empty zone that never gets used and frequently gets stuck

We didn’t ask for 100%’ing zones to unlock a trait.

If anyone asked for hunting like skill hunting, we were expecting them to just be on champions/veterans in the zones, or world bosses that are on a schedule that people regularly do anyway, not things that are broken.

Also, GW1 gave you at least basic skills. Even translating “GW1 style skills” to “traits” (which you shouldn’t, they’re different), you can easily get world completion without even being able to put a trait into every slot. Locking Grandmaster traits, or introducing new traits, fair enough. But this if we use the GW1 skills analogy, this would be like removing every single skill on your bar.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

The real issue with the trait system is that people asked for horizontal progression, but when they did, I seriously doubt anyone meant taking away functionality we already had and making us obtain it more slowly.

I think that people expected new traits or skills for which there was horizontal progression.

What we got instead was the same food we’ve been eating all along, priced at a much higher price.

Most people wouldn’t mind something new and different in the supermarket that cost more. It’s a treat. It’s special.

But if you raised all the prices on every day commodities, that would kitten people off.

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Posted by: munkiman.3068

munkiman.3068

I agree OP, the only time i level alts is with tomes.

[TAO] Founder/Owner and Administrator for the NSP Server Website

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Posted by: PookieDaWombat.6209

PookieDaWombat.6209

The real issue with the trait system is that people asked for horizontal progression, but when they did, I seriously doubt anyone meant taking away functionality we already had and making us obtain it more slowly.

I think that people expected new traits or skills for which there was horizontal progression.

What we got instead was the same food we’ve been eating all along, priced at a much higher price.

Most people wouldn’t mind something new and different in the supermarket that cost more. It’s a treat. It’s special.

But if you raised all the prices on every day commodities, that would kitten people off.

I like this Vayne. More of this Vayne. I kid. Sorta. But yeah, the trait system as it stands now is complete garbage and there are mountains of suggestions for improving it. We just need to know Anet is actually working on some fix for it.

[OTR] – Greck Howlbane – Guardian
Soraya Mayhew – Thief
Melissa Koris – Engie – SF for Life!

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Posted by: Beldin.5498

Beldin.5498

The real issue with the trait system is that people asked for horizontal progression, but when they did, I seriously doubt anyone meant taking away functionality we already had and making us obtain it more slowly.

I think that people expected new traits or skills for which there was horizontal progression.

What we got instead was the same food we’ve been eating all along, priced at a much higher price.

Most people wouldn’t mind something new and different in the supermarket that cost more. It’s a treat. It’s special.

But if you raised all the prices on every day commodities, that would kitten people off.

Yeah .. but its a good example for “be careful what you wish for” .. especially if you
don’t really make a good description of what you want.

For me this also was clearly the answer to : “Skill hunting in GW1 was so great !!”

The same like Ambrite weapons, luminiscent armor and Aetherpath is the answer to :
“in GW1 we farmed zone x for 8 year because it was sooo fun to finally get item x”

Aetherpath and Karka Island were also the answer to “giff more challenge”

So .. ANet listens .. they only answer with things you never expected

And i personally knew from the beginning that getting the traits would be much
more expensive .. and laughed at those people that really asked for a refund for
the books the bought .. lol

EVERY MMO is awesome until it is released then its unfinished. A month after release it just sucks.
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

I’d like to direct you to This monster thread regarding trait concerns.

You’re not alone.

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Posted by: Arkinos.7245

Arkinos.7245

I came back to the game after a very long time and made a new character to get into the game again.

The story progression and leveling reward seem alright to be, but what seriously annoys me and will most likely cause me to never actually play my new characters after Zaitan is the trait system.

I dont get who thought that forcing people to play certain content to unlock the very basics of their character is a good idea.

Its like you could only get any skillpoints whatsoever by doing sPvP.
Or you could only get ranged weapons by doing WvW.

The only thing about the new system that makes me happy is that all my old chars actually kept all traits unlocked. Because I will never bother to unlock all traits for new chars.

The fact that the region for the event part of the daily is basically unplayable for actually new people that level there is also not all that nice.

(edited by Arkinos.7245)

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Posted by: Mad Rasputin.7809

Mad Rasputin.7809

As a long time vet, I have to agree that the trait changes are absolutely horrible.

I came back recently after an extended break and decided to make a new elementalist to go along with the other 5 level 80s.

I soon found myself level 68 with zero traits unlocked. Granted, I used scrolls to boost to level 46 immediately but the remaining levels came from map exploration and playing the game.

So I decide to take a look at the requirements to get some traits. Geez.. adept traits that require you to defeat a high level champion? Kinda hard to do if you don’t have a build yet. More adept traits that require 100% map completion of an area? I’m already working on my 5th 100% map completion, no need to force me to do more.

The requirements to unlock these traits in the open world are a little excessive imho. I really don’t know how a new player would handle some of these.

I’m currently stuck with a level 75 elementalist with almost no traits unlocked. I can not even mess around with builds to see what fits my playstyle. How can this possibly be a good thing not being able to try new builds out while leveling?

As it stands, I have to wait until I hit 80, to hopefully get decent enough gear to be able to unlock most of the traits, to then be able to try some builds out. Then, maybe I can finally settle on a build and get some real end game gear and start enjoying the game.

These type of changes definately don’t entice me to come back to the game and make another alt to stick around for a while longer.

On a side note, I refuse to go post in the giant Mega-Thread on traits. Until ANet fixes the search feature on the forums, merging every thread into a giant Mega-Thread is pretty useless. There is no way most people can wade through that many pages on a single thread.

Quit merging everything into a giant mess of a Mega-Thread if the search button is not working.

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Posted by: Sariel V.7024

Sariel V.7024

I wouldn’t mind making new characters, but I’m definitely not pursuing full traits anymore. Whatever I get at random will suit me just fine. Any new characters I’d create are likely to be temporary.

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Posted by: CMM.6712

CMM.6712

First, let me say I am mostly not in favor of the traits changes, and as a player with several alts it is painful.

However, it is not THAT big of a deal to buy a few traits to have a useable build. You don’t HAVE to have every trait that’s available right this second. That is a want, not a need.

I like the idea of capturing traits (skills) by doing x,y,z like in GW1, but clearly the system needs refinement.

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

For me a big part of what makes a game fun is fiddling with builds. The trait acquisition changes make this much less appealing on a non grandfathered character . I have one empty character slot which is likely to remain empty for the foreseeable future.

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Posted by: Orion Templar.4589

Orion Templar.4589

The whole concept of certain game mechanics unlocking over time is to help prevent a new player from being overwhelmed when first being introduced to the game. By introducing concepts and mechanics slowly, a new player builds a framework of understanding and will likely enjoy the game much more.

That being said, the New Player Experience (NPE) really should only be for new players and not for new characters created by veteran players. My opinion is that if an account has at least one level 80 character on it, when a new character is created, it should not be subjected to any slow unlocks or content introduction trickling. All skills slots, map components, game modes, weapon swapping, etc. should be unlocked for the new character the same as they are for the level 80 character. The player behind the new character is already familiar with the concepts and doesn’t need the NPE at that point.

(edited by Orion Templar.4589)

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Posted by: Devildoc.6721

Devildoc.6721

We didn’t ask for traits to be on the last step of an event chain in an almost empty zone that never gets used and frequently gets stuck

We didn’t ask for 100%’ing zones to unlock a trait.

If anyone asked for hunting like skill hunting, we were expecting them to just be on champions/veterans in the zones, or world bosses that are on a schedule that people regularly do anyway, not things that are broken.

Also, GW1 gave you at least basic skills. Even translating “GW1 style skills” to “traits” (which you shouldn’t, they’re different), you can easily get world completion without even being able to put a trait into every slot. Locking Grandmaster traits, or introducing new traits, fair enough. But this if we use the GW1 skills analogy, this would be like removing every single skill on your bar.

That’s a really good point. That’d mean adept skills would all be unlocked by default, and probably master as well, leaving grandmaster as the only ones that needed to be unlocked.

Zapp – 80 Asura Afromancer

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Posted by: Devildoc.6721

Devildoc.6721

I’d like to direct you to This monster thread regarding trait concerns.

You’re not alone.

Oh I’ve posted there, this is a tangent actually it has to do with the trait system sure, but it more specifically has to do with how it affects decisions to make new characters, particularly how likely people are to buy new character slots.

That should matter to Arenanet since they make money off of it.

Zapp – 80 Asura Afromancer

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Posted by: Gregori.5807

Gregori.5807

The real issue with the trait system is that people asked for horizontal progression, but when they did, I seriously doubt anyone meant taking away functionality we already had and making us obtain it more slowly.

I think that people expected new traits or skills for which there was horizontal progression.

What we got instead was the same food we’ve been eating all along, priced at a much higher price.

Most people wouldn’t mind something new and different in the supermarket that cost more. It’s a treat. It’s special.

But if you raised all the prices on every day commodities, that would kitten people off.

Bingo!

Very well said.

~~On Blackgate since Beta~~
80s: Necro x2, Ranger, Warr, Guardian x2, Ele x2, Mes, Thief

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Posted by: ozmaniandevil.6805

ozmaniandevil.6805

Well I have 3 empty character slots. I honestly don’t mind the NPE part of the changes. I find actually levelling is not faster or slower than it was before. I mean, levelling without tomes and such always was pretty boring after the first time around.

As I stated in the trait thread, many times, the system brought in on Apr 15 for traits is horrible, awful, atrocious – I can’t think of enough bad words.

For instance, I am slowly levelling a human ranger. I used some tomes (not many) and some XP from the dailies, but for the most part I’m completing maps for XP. So, I’m level 51 and I have… wait for it… wait for it… ONE trait unlocked (applause here). Seriously. Wow.

What bothers me most is ANet’s complete lie of saying the new trait system was brought in to encourage experimenation. Really? On what planet? And after over 70 pages filled with about 90% bad reviews of this new system, and almost a year going by, we STILL HAVE IT. I am so disgusted by this that I tell everyone who even thinks about buying this game to NOT BUY IT.

I notice as well that in all the gaming stores around where I live, I can buy pretty much every other MMO on the market, but none of the carry this game anymore. Wonder why?

TL;DR: NPE is not bad; trait system kills the ENTIRE experience, for new and vet players alike.

Isle of Janthir – Knights of the Rose (KoR)

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Posted by: Lord Kuru.3685

Lord Kuru.3685

Fail NPE + Fail EotM = win.

Get to 80 through the k-train that’s EotM. Then begin to play your character. It’s not fun doing this, but still much better than suffering through NPE (5 trait points at level 50.. seriously?)

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Posted by: Bernie.8674

Bernie.8674

The trait thing sucks, but as a vet you probably have some idea of what you’re going to use the character for. The few characters I’ve leveled since the NPE just use meta builds, so I don’t have to unlock every trait.

If this is the style of play that ArenaNet wants to encourage they may as well go the way of WoW and give you a fixed set of traits depending on a chosen role. Why offer 50 worthless traits at prohibitive prices knowing that only six of them will ever be used? Your proposed style of play discourages experimentation. Granted, the low condition cap and defiance system already do a pretty good job of doing that as well, but this doesn’t help either.

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Posted by: Zaklex.6308

Zaklex.6308

~Snip~
As I stated in the trait thread, many times, the system brought in on Apr 15 for traits is horrible, awful, atrocious – I can’t think of enough bad words.

For instance, I am slowly levelling a human ranger. I used some tomes (not many) and some XP from the dailies, but for the most part I’m completing maps for XP. So, I’m level 51 and I have… wait for it… wait for it… ONE trait unlocked (applause here). Seriously. Wow.

And this is a problem? You honestly don’t even really need the Traits until you’re level 80 if all the content you play is PvE.

What bothers me most is ANet’s complete lie of saying the new trait system was brought in to encourage experimenation. Really? On what planet? And after over 70 pages filled with about 90% bad reviews of this new system, and almost a year going by, we STILL HAVE IT. I am so disgusted by this that I tell everyone who even thinks about buying this game to NOT BUY IT.

Why, are you in marketing for another MMO or do you work for the places that sell it? It’s really not anyone’s job to tell someone else what to buy or not buy…friend or not, I neither recommend or tell anyone to not buy it. I let people make their own decisions.

I notice as well that in all the gaming stores around where I live, I can buy pretty much every other MMO on the market, but none of the carry this game anymore. Wonder why?

Perhaps because they can’t keep it in stock? At the retailers around me it’s always down to 1 or 2 copies, vs the multiple copies for all the others. Normally when something isn’t on the shelves it’s because the retailer can’t keep it in stock, especially if there are still spots for it on the shelves…which you didn’t mention.

TL;DR: NPE is not bad; trait system kills the ENTIRE experience, for new and vet players alike.

Existing players make it out harder than it is to obtain the Traits now, it’s not perfect, but it doesn’t kill the entire experience.

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Posted by: ozmaniandevil.6805

ozmaniandevil.6805

@Zaklex; if you feel you “don’t need” traits until you’re level 80, then you are either new to the game, and do not understand traits, or are so used to being less than useful that it’s really quite sad.

Your second comment is simply silly and not worth responding to.

They don’t carry it. Period.

It kills the experience for all the people on the forums here complaining about it for over 8 months. Discount that all you want.

Do you work for ANet?

Isle of Janthir – Knights of the Rose (KoR)

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Posted by: ozmaniandevil.6805

ozmaniandevil.6805

next page bug fix… yaaaayyy

Isle of Janthir – Knights of the Rose (KoR)