Guild Wars 2

Oniyui.8279:

Zale.9645:

But forcing PVP into a PVE achievement, or vise versa, is always, I repeat, always bad. There is no arguing that.

It’s not a PvE achievement.

You’ll find it in the General tab, under the Hero section.

It’s, quite literally, 95% PVE.

Who cares about map completion? You only need it if you’re getting legendary anyways. L

Raeysa Penrose.8450:

Shadey Dancer.2907:

From a purely personal perspective, Sure, I was not a happy bunny when I realized I had to do WvW map completion before getting 100% world map completion (over a year ago? something like that). However on the upside, I am kind of grateful it was there, as I would not have even thought of going into WvW beforehand, thinking it was for elite players only. No idea where I got that notion from, but there we go lol.

It’s not for elite players only?

It’s for elite roaming players, AND mindless zerg fest players. The mindless zerg fest players follow little blue commander tags around and basically feels the same as doing a Queensdale/Frost Gorge champ train, occassionally enemy zergs collide, and everyone in the smaller one dies. The elite roamers go around solo or in small groups and kill each other, as well as amusing themselves by ganking all the poor sucker PvE players who got tired of the zerg not leading them to the places they need for completion and tried to head out on their own.

^That’s the microcosm of crap that I’ve been forced into just so I can get the title I wanted. Keep in mind, I just wanted the title and achievement, didn’t even realize it was a requirement for a Legendary until I completed the entire world map and was sitting at 95%. How did I make it that far with out knowing? I was having fun doing map exploration solo so I didn’t bother joining a guild, and had been in a total of 3 parties the entire time I was playing up to that point. It never occured to me that the 100% completion ticker on the world map wasn’t referencing, you know, the world map…

Zale.9645:

Oniyui.8279:

Zale.9645:

But forcing PVP into a PVE achievement, or vise versa, is always, I repeat, always bad. There is no arguing that.

It’s not a PvE achievement.

You’ll find it in the General tab, under the Hero section.

It’s, quite literally, 95% PVE.

Not exactly. 95% of the achievement’s required explorable locations exist in zones where there is only PvE.

Yet, it doesn’t even include all the PvE, as it disregards Southsun Cove.

Exploring the mists isn’t WvW at all, either. It’s PvE in a WvW zone.

imsoenthused.1634:

Raeysa Penrose.8450:

Shadey Dancer.2907:

From a purely personal perspective, Sure, I was not a happy bunny when I realized I had to do WvW map completion before getting 100% world map completion (over a year ago? something like that). However on the upside, I am kind of grateful it was there, as I would not have even thought of going into WvW beforehand, thinking it was for elite players only. No idea where I got that notion from, but there we go lol.

It’s not for elite players only?

It’s for elite roaming players, AND mindless zerg fest players. The mindless zerg fest players follow little blue commander tags around and basically feels the same as doing a Queensdale/Frost Gorge champ train, occassionally enemy zergs collide, and everyone in the smaller one dies. The elite roamers go around solo or in small groups and kill each other, as well as amusing themselves by ganking all the poor sucker PvE players who got tired of the zerg not leading them to the places they need for completion and tried to head out on their own.

^That’s the microcosm of crap that I’ve been forced into just so I can get the title I wanted. Keep in mind, I just wanted the title and achievement, didn’t even realize it was a requirement for a Legendary until I completed the entire world map and was sitting at 95%. How did I make it that far with out knowing? I was having fun doing map exploration solo so I didn’t bother joining a guild, and had been in a total of 3 parties the entire time I was playing up to that point. It never occured to me that the 100% completion ticker on the world map wasn’t referencing, you know, the world map…

Um, just out of curiosity, have you asked on /map for people to join up and go map exploring? I haven’t been there, but I’ve found that a lot of people tend to be helpful if you just try the chat. I was kind of lonely and discouraged until I started speaking up in chat. People seem to be really relieved when someone does, like everyone was waiting for someone to start up a conversation. That’s how I’ve gotten to a lot of skill points I couldn’t get to myself. I just asked around.

Oniyui.8279:

Zale.9645:

Oniyui.8279:

Zale.9645:

But forcing PVP into a PVE achievement, or vise versa, is always, I repeat, always bad. There is no arguing that.

It’s not a PvE achievement.

You’ll find it in the General tab, under the Hero section.

It’s, quite literally, 95% PVE.

Not exactly. 95% of the achievement’s required explorable locations exist in zones where there is only PvE.

Yet, it doesn’t even include all the PvE, as it disregards Southsun Cove.

Exploring the mists isn’t WvW at all, either. It’s PvE in a WvW zone.

So you’re saying we should consider it 93% PVE?

This is just nitpicking.

imsoenthused.1634:

It never occured to me that the 100% completion ticker on the world map wasn’t referencing, you know, the world map…

This is a design flaw. Also, that the achievement has the quote “Seeking Zhaitan’s corruption in every corner of Tyria” is also misleading. There’s Tyria the continent, Tyria the world, and then The Mists between worlds.

On those 2 points I could see an argument on principles.

Zale.9645:

Oniyui.8279:

Zale.9645:

Oniyui.8279:

Zale.9645:

But forcing PVP into a PVE achievement, or vise versa, is always, I repeat, always bad. There is no arguing that.

It’s not a PvE achievement.

You’ll find it in the General tab, under the Hero section.

It’s, quite literally, 95% PVE.

Not exactly. 95% of the achievement’s required explorable locations exist in zones where there is only PvE.

Yet, it doesn’t even include all the PvE, as it disregards Southsun Cove.

Exploring the mists isn’t WvW at all, either. It’s PvE in a WvW zone.

So you’re saying we should consider it 93% PVE?

This is just nitpicking.

On the Contrary. I’m saying it’s 100% PvE. The achievement doesn’t require you to engage against any other worlds or players, just the environment.

This again? Must be Tuesday (to paraphrase another poster in another thread…)

I want the Dive Master achievement. I don’t want to have to do jumping puzzles for it. I think JP’s are a waste of time and energy. I think they should be removed from the requirement.

I want the Slayer Title. I don’t want to have to go to Orr and kill Giants to get it. I don’t want to be forced to do something I don’t want to do in order to get my Achievement.

/endsarcasm

I’m sorry. I don’t have sympathy for you. If you don’t want to go to a WvW map, then don’t go. But keep in mind that if you don’t, then you’re not entitled to your 100%.

If you’re only doing it for your Gift, then find something else to do or whip out that credit card and buy your legendary. It’s much better to do that than be forced into doing something you don’t want to do…

Raeysa Penrose.8450:

Um, just out of curiosity, have you asked on /map for people to join up and go map exploring? I haven’t been there, but I’ve found that a lot of people tend to be helpful if you just try the chat. I was kind of lonely and discouraged until I started speaking up in chat. People seem to be really relieved when someone does, like everyone was waiting for someone to start up a conversation. That’s how I’ve gotten to a lot of skill points I couldn’t get to myself. I just asked around.

Honestly, I’m a pretty good WvW player, as far as Roaming goes, I knock out the skill points solo with no real problems. The possession gated castles and towers are what really annoy me, because I either have to follow a zerg that it is taking them, or wait for the color on my server to change.

The other huge annoyance for me is that I enjoy exploring new areas and scenery, that’s why I started working on the achievement to begin with, and three of the stupid WvW maps are IDENTICAL! Having to complete the same map three times for one character is just tedious and goes against the very idea of map exploration, which is what got me started on the whole achievement to begin with. I’d still feel forced to be there, but I think I’d be far less disgusted if there were actually four different WvW maps to explore.

Man – back in the day I really struggled to complete the WvWvW – Section of the Maps.
However! This was the only time Map-Completion gave me a feeling of accomplishment – that glorious feeling when that last chest finally popped up on my screen is probably one of the best moments I had in this game. Without WvWvW-Maps getting the star would have felt to me as nothing more than a grind.

Embrace the challenge dudes.

well….it’s only a gandara’s issue or colors are not rotating since too many weeks=? -.-

Anet could get a clue card about rotating colors a little more often but the map completion itself isn’t all that hard. You just have to be a bit patient.

Early on I did WvW map completion on all my characters because I wanted the siege items that came from completing those maps. I actually found Orr to be harder for map completion than WvW was.

I regret moving to a low pop server

Wreave.2138:

Wait. Map completion requires WvW maps too? WTF? Okay, starting to get ticked off.

It’s not so hard as it sounds, just not as much in your control as the rest. Maybe it shouldn’t be part of it but for now you’re stuck with it and the best thing to do is just doing it.

Healix.5819:

I had a friend find this out ~5 months into the game after reaching ~70% world completion. They never logged in again.

Not the smartest thing to do. Some world zones are harder to get completion on then the wvw maps.

I could say get over it, do it or not and bla bla, I did it afterall (and I am very anti pvp tbh) but I had going for me that it was free to move servers when I did so I jumped server to where the stuff was accessable (owned by whichever server I was on), otherwise I could have waited forever to cycle it.

But now I may have done it once, but would I want to do it again? Not so much. Was I a little upset that I had to go there in the first place? Not exactly upset, but I was not exactly happy either.

So I am not going to just tell you to get over it, I can understand this complaint.
And then I am going to say I am afraid that you will have to deal with it, because I don’t see it getting changed.

Just because of this I refuse to ever buy gems, I hope they enjoy the box sale, that’s all they’re getting from me.

Most people who don’t see it as a problem either are from a server that constantly switch colors or are in a dominating server, it’s not so funny when your server is locked with certain color for months.

Ashabhi.1365:

This again? Must be Tuesday (to paraphrase another poster in another thread…)

I want the Slayer Title. I don’t want to have to go to Orr and kill Giants to get it. I don’t want to be forced to do something I don’t want to do in order to get my Achievement.

..

Are you thinking of Zhaitan’s Bane Achievement? Unfortunately the undead Giants dont count for the slayer title as it only recognizes them as undead and not Giants—a topic for another time ;p. But your rite on the money with what you said.

Alukah.2063:

Most people who don’t see it as a problem either are from a server that constantly switch colors or are in a dominating server, it’s not so funny when your server is locked with certain color for months.

Iv been in that position, had to wait weeks for SM to flip, and I am sure others have been in exactly the same position.

As has already been pointed out these types of threads pop up occasionally, as people only want the easy option. Its exactly the same as the thirst slayer achievement topic that surfaces from time to time, ’ ohhh booo hooo, I dont want to press the mouse button 100, 000 times, how can i do it the easy way’—-simple answer is, you cant, work for it!

imsoenthused.1634:

Raeysa Penrose.8450:

Um, just out of curiosity, have you asked on /map for people to join up and go map exploring? I haven’t been there, but I’ve found that a lot of people tend to be helpful if you just try the chat. I was kind of lonely and discouraged until I started speaking up in chat. People seem to be really relieved when someone does, like everyone was waiting for someone to start up a conversation. That’s how I’ve gotten to a lot of skill points I couldn’t get to myself. I just asked around.

Honestly, I’m a pretty good WvW player, as far as Roaming goes, I knock out the skill points solo with no real problems. The possession gated castles and towers are what really annoy me, because I either have to follow a zerg that it is taking them, or wait for the color on my server to change.

The other huge annoyance for me is that I enjoy exploring new areas and scenery, that’s why I started working on the achievement to begin with, and three of the stupid WvW maps are IDENTICAL! Having to complete the same map three times for one character is just tedious and goes against the very idea of map exploration, which is what got me started on the whole achievement to begin with. I’d still feel forced to be there, but I think I’d be far less disgusted if there were actually four different WvW maps to explore.

Ugh, there are four of the same and you have to explore them all? That does sound a bit excessive.

Alukah.2063:

Just because of this I refuse to ever buy gems, I hope they enjoy the box sale, that’s all they’re getting from me.

Most people who don’t see it as a problem either are from a server that constantly switch colors or are in a dominating server, it’s not so funny when your server is locked with certain color for months.

Is it possible to guest another server? Or maybe to politely ask the other team to let you just pop over for you PoIs and SPs? I haven’t been there, so I wouldn’t know. I’ve found that asking nicely goes a long way. . . I guess I’m just throwing things out there.

Raeysa, I am afraid you can not guest on another server to do WvW, it would have to be a full transfer to do that. As for asking politely, that depends on the situation. By that I mean, to get POI/ vistas etc on the general map, it would not work, as, for one you need to capture most of the towers etc to be able to get them (a rare few can be gotten by scraping the tower).

However, in the context of the jumping puzzels, it is possible to even team up with the so called enemy. It really depends on you both. This sometimes happens in the Obsidian Sanctum (OS) JP, as you cant jump as far whilst in combat. For instance even if I dont ally with an enemy whilst in the OS JP, I would try to determine if they are friendly or not—-just give them a wave or jump up and down in their direction to see their reaction, as some people, just because you are colored red as an enemy can not see past that, and will try to kill you regardless>>.

Raeysa Penrose.8450:

Ugh, there are four of the same and you have to explore them all? That does sound a bit excessive.

Is it possible to guest another server? Or maybe to politely ask the other team to let you just pop over for you PoIs and SPs? I haven’t been there, so I wouldn’t know. I’ve found that asking nicely goes a long way. . . I guess I’m just throwing things out there.

There’s three the "same" (although the locations have different names). Eternal Battlegrounds has a different map. Believe me, you want those homeworld maps to be the same, particularly if you’re a PvE solo type like me. It’s a help, not a hindrance. It’s not as bad as it seems.

You can’t guest to another server for WvW completion anymore. I managed my first completion this way, and it worked well. However, I just completed my second 100% yesterday entirely on my own server, so it is possible. I am a complete care bear, but it took me a little over a month with some luck, being a handy combination of stubborn and patient, and adapting. I’m not particularly epic at WvW, but I kind of feel I’m a little bit better as a player having completed the maps.

I did it part zerg, part solo. No parties (I’m shy). I’m a terribly easy target, even as a mesmer, because I’m fairly clueless, but I suck up my losses and carry on. Maybe I actually learned something about my profession every time. Or about myself: any time I got a bit fed up - and I did, there’s no lying about it - I went and did something else instead (including changing my traits and skills!). It’s not like I had to do WvW all the time. I did bits of it here and there instead, intermingled with things I’ve found more fun traditionally. If your server has teamspeak running, by the way, try to use it. You don’t have to zerg, but it can be helpful or just kitten funny to listen in.

Whether it should be included in 100% map completion? I believe so.

It’s hard if you’ve only done PvE, but then so are dungeons. So are fractals (never done them, and don’t want to!). So’s PvP. So’s some parts of the Personal Story. Even PvE itself can be hard if you’re caught wrong-footed. Personally I think the Tribulation Rift scaffolding, or the Diessa Wall Breach Blitz of Doom are much more intimidating and horrible than anything in WvW, but YMMV. I’ve done them vistas/puzzles enough now to know what I’m doing (maybe there’s something in that?), but they will always have my stomach in my mouth. There’s jumping puzzles I can’t even do and will never be able to. That’s okay. Those aren’t for me. I’ll never have titles for them. I’ll never have all the Dive Master locations because of that (34/38! bah humbug).
Similarly, 100% map completion may not be for everyone. So if you don’t want it, don’t do it. If you do, then... do. And don’t fret about it either way.

Kitrine.5913:

I Just don’t understand all the anger about this. Okay sure it can be really frustrating to wait a week or two or three until your team has the right color, but hey I want to throw my computer across the room after every 3rd try on a jumping puzzle. And I know others have issue with that as well and you don’t see threads whining about how all the vistas should be able to be reached without jumping. I know I’m only one case but I got my 100% map completion and yes parts of it where difficult or frustrating but that’s part of the deal if it was really easy no one would be composing about this cause no one would care. And about the legendary part if you are going to spend all that time gathering all the other materials but you are going to whine about spending a few hours in WvW? Getting a legendary is hard and you have to do all sorts of things oh and for those who missed it you need badges of honor to make a legendary too. I don’t even love or really like WvW but I just can’t believe how silly this seems.

And by the way it’s not like anyone strips you of your armor or steals all your gold when you die. I’ve died lots of times in PvE and WvW and its no different.

Perfectly said. +1 for you.

Shadey Dancer.2907:

Raeysa, I am afraid you can not guest on another server to do WvW, it would have to be a full transfer to do that. As for asking politely, that depends on the situation. By that I mean, to get POI/ vistas etc on the general map, it would not work, as, for one you need to capture most of the towers etc to be able to get them (a rare few can be gotten by scraping the tower).

However, in the context of the jumping puzzels, it is possible to even team up with the so called enemy. It really depends on you both. This sometimes happens in the Obsidian Sanctum (OS) JP, as you cant jump as far whilst in combat. For instance even if I dont ally with an enemy whilst in the OS JP, I would try to determine if they are friendly or not—-just give them a wave or jump up and down in their direction to see their reaction, as some people, just because you are colored red as an enemy can not see past that, and will try to kill you regardless>>.

Wait, so even if the enemy team is willing to let you drop by for PoIs and SPs, you actually can’t get them unless your team possesses the points?

Ceridwen.6703:

Raeysa Penrose.8450:

Ugh, there are four of the same and you have to explore them all? That does sound a bit excessive.

Is it possible to guest another server? Or maybe to politely ask the other team to let you just pop over for you PoIs and SPs? I haven’t been there, so I wouldn’t know. I’ve found that asking nicely goes a long way. . . I guess I’m just throwing things out there.

There’s three the “same” (although the locations have different names). Eternal Battlegrounds has a different map. Believe me, you want those homeworld maps to be the same, particularly if you’re a PvE solo type like me. It’s a help, not a hindrance. It’s not as bad as it seems.

You can’t guest to another server for WvW completion anymore. I managed my first completion this way, and it worked well. However, I just completed my second 100% yesterday entirely on my own server, so it is possible. I am a complete care bear, but it took me a little over a month with some luck, being a handy combination of stubborn and patient, and adapting. I’m not particularly epic at WvW, but I kind of feel I’m a little bit better as a player having completed the maps.

I did it part zerg, part solo. No parties (I’m shy). I’m a terribly easy target, even as a mesmer, because I’m fairly clueless, but I suck up my losses and carry on. Maybe I actually learned something about my profession every time. Or about myself: any time I got a bit fed up – and I did, there’s no lying about it – I went and did something else instead (including changing my traits and skills!). It’s not like I had to do WvW all the time. I did bits of it here and there instead, intermingled with things I’ve found more fun traditionally. If your server has teamspeak running, by the way, try to use it. You don’t have to zerg, but it can be helpful or just kitten funny to listen in.

Whether it should be included in 100% map completion? I believe so.

It’s hard if you’ve only done PvE, but then so are dungeons. So are fractals (never done them, and don’t want to!). So’s PvP. So’s some parts of the Personal Story. Even PvE itself can be hard if you’re caught wrong-footed. Personally I think the Tribulation Rift scaffolding, or the Diessa Wall Breach Blitz of Doom are much more intimidating and horrible than anything in WvW, but YMMV. I’ve done them vistas/puzzles enough now to know what I’m doing (maybe there’s something in that?), but they will always have my stomach in my mouth. There’s jumping puzzles I can’t even do and will never be able to. That’s okay. Those aren’t for me. I’ll never have titles for them. I’ll never have all the Dive Master locations because of that (34/38! bah humbug).
Similarly, 100% map completion may not be for everyone. So if you don’t want it, don’t do it. If you do, then… do. And don’t fret about it either way.

Heh, that’s pretty much exactly how I feel. I want to earn that map completion, not have it handed to me!

Wreave.2138:

I’ve recently started focusing on map completion, planning to get to 100% before too long. Then today I ran into this:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1uvnye/dolyak_express_first_answers_to_our_questions/

Achievements: Are you going to change the Map Completion to remove the requirement of WvW?
”We currently have no plans to do this. We’ve been doing a lot of work lately to try and bring our three core game types: PvP, WvW, and PvE more together in their systems of progression, rewards, and unlocking to try and give the game more of a sense of everything you do ties back into the growth of your character. We feel like WvW is a really good middle-ground between PvE and PvP and want to encourage people to think of the mists as part of our world they should explore and experience, we might consider adding the PvP lobby to world exploration for future characters for example to help give more incentive to visit there as well.

That being said, we’re always looking at the systems and features we have in place, and as you’ve seen since we launched if we find something we think is better, we’re not shy about replacing a current system if we find something better for the players, but accomplishes our same goals. Our over-all goal is to encourage all players to experience WvW, to have goals that keep them there long enough they might fall in love with it and take that on as a separate game time; should we find other ways that are as effective as we’ve seen world complete is for encouraging play there to see the different maps, that is just as easy to understand and uses existing systems like world complete, we’ll certainly consider them. It’s something fun to brainstorm on our forums and see what kind of ideas players might!” ~Colin Johanson

Wait. Map completion requires WvW maps too? WTF? Okay, starting to get ticked off.

Googling around finds more threads on people unhappy about this. E.g.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/100-map-completion-not-going-to-happen/first

And this in particular stands out:
http://dragonseason.com/Front/tabid/124/EntryId/211/Lunch-with-Colin-Johanson-Part-II.aspx

What are your thoughts on the PvE aspect of WvW, including jumping puzzles and world completion?

Colin: For the jumping puzzle, I would prefer that they not be in the WvW map and it’s a separate thing. Especially when there’s a queue like that and people are trying to get in. It disconnects players from the content that they are trying to play. How we answer that is going to be interesting. There’s a lot of different ways that we can separate that out, but in long run it’s very unlikely that that will stay in the WvW map where it’s eating up population queue. We’ll go somewhere else and we’ll have to figure out the best way to do that. “World Complete” is an interesting one. We’ve seen from our data metrics, that because [WvW] is on “World Complete”, there’s a bunch of people who play WvW because it takes them there to actually get to know it and they end up having so much fun, that they stay.

I’d like to see proof of this statement…

“We’ve seen from our data metrics, that because [WvW] is on “World Complete”, there’s a bunch of people who play WvW because it takes them there to actually get to know it and they end up having so much fun, that they stay.”

bunch of people? how many of those world completion people are consistently playing wvw compared to those that don’t? how many people are actively participating in wvw compared to the entire game population?

fun? or are they sticking around and/or server hopping just to make completion? it’s a time consuming process so it I’m pretty sure those stats get skewed.

you all can watch those spread sheets, but that does not give insight to the way players really feel about doing said activity because those are assumptions at best.

Ok here’s the thing(s)….

First, you MIGHT actually enjoy WvW if you do try it. But make sure you watch some instructional videos so you understand the game play and what people are doing.

Second, it is entirely possible to get everything in WvW without fighting any other people. There are regular PvE bad guys to fight though… champ harpy, centaurs, skritt. It is quite fun and challenging. So as long as you’re patient you just wait until your server has what you need and go get it. We rarely have Stone Mist Castle but guildies were awesome in telling us when we did have it so kudos to my guildmates.

Personally i am thrilled the jumping puzzles in WvW were not included for map completion. They are brutally hard and you rarely make it through without getting ganked. There is one tough vista in EB and after a group of us poor jumpers called out for help in map chat a wonderful mesmer came and saved us by porting us up.

Sorry, but i do not feel in any way this should break the game for anyone. Maybe look at it as an opportunity to join a new guild, meet some new and helpful players. The worst that could happen is you suddenly die by stealthy thief and you WP and have to fix your armor. This is rare BTW. Then you just focus on a different area of the map and try that point later. It’s not the end of the world.

Being forced into wvw just to complete a title and craft a legendary was something I didn’t like to do. I still don’t like it and when I was running around exploring, I just followed the blue tortilla chip so I can quickly get the places out of the way.

Also, how did Anet arrive to the conclusion that PvE players had so much fun that they stay? What is the percentage of players that actually stay compared to the ones that leave? Did they account for PvE players that joined for the season achievements and reward chest? What are their data metrics on players that don’t play wvw if it wasn’t on world completion (if any)?

Pretty sure that if you joined your server’s WvW community, you’d have a much easier time of getting map completion, as well as a much better time in WvW overall, even as a pug.

Just don’t be running gear without toughness/vitality or you’re just a free bag (aka rally bait).

You learn a lot about your class by playing WvW. Traits, utilities, armor builds etc. all become wildly varied in viability. That zerker gear you’ve been running? Works if you vastly outnumber our opponent, but you’ll die if you get sneezed on otherwise.

Also, learning PvP in WvW is a lot more forgiving than in sPvP, as you are using the same gear from PvE. You can learn what to change out to make your build much more efficient (say, 10% less damage, but 30% more survivability). You can also make it easier on yourself by running with your guildies. Bring 20-30 of you along, buy some siege, and have some fun taking down structures. Especially in the extremely low ranked servers, I’ve heard it was quite possible to full cap a borderland map with only a few people, so nearly all your WvW exploration can be done in one night. Structures flip far more regularly in higher tier servers anyway so it’s less of an issue.

So don’t hate on the map completion part of WvW. Embrace it as a learning experience. Learn your class’s abilities better (and why rangers are a running joke in WvW)

Anet needs to keep WvW as needed for map completion.

Because the WvW players who are terri-bad fails need people they can actually beat in a 1v1 …

;-)

I side firmly with the “wvw as part of map completion is a big load of bullkitten”. I’m not a competitive sort, FORCING me to compete isn’t going to change my mindset into a CoDtard fanboi.

Actually, I’ll retract part of that – give me something like Magic: The Gathering, and I’m hugely competitive. Or Chess, or Risk. In GW1 I was hugely into PvP, but that’s because of how GW1 worked. The deck-building, skill vs. skill nature of it. GW2 pvp either hold-the-point, yawnfest bunker/condi that is 5v5, or “he-who-has-the-biggest-zerg-wins” of wvw aren’t going to attract me.

Making it something I have to do to get a reward that is 95% based on PvE? That’s just going to raise my blood pressure.

DanteZero.9736:

Being forced into wvw just to complete a title and craft a legendary was something I didn’t like to do. I still don’t like it and when I was running around exploring, I just followed the blue tortilla chip so I can quickly get the places out of the way.

Also, how did Anet arrive to the conclusion that PvE players had so much fun that they stay? What is the percentage of players that actually stay compared to the ones that leave? Did they account for PvE players that joined for the season achievements and reward chest? What are their data metrics on players that don’t play wvw if it wasn’t on world completion (if any)?

If it really bothered you that much…. You do know you could of just straight up grinded the pve you enjoy and just bought w/e legendary you wanted off the tp. No one is forcing you to do anything.

I did mine back in the first year when server changing was free. I truly feel bad for anyone trying to do it now and I feel PvE map completion should not require WvW.

I wonder if their prized metrics show which segment is bigger, those who “try out WvW and find out it’s fun” or those who get frustrated because map completion is super difficult and depends on other factors than yourself because of WvW?

I’m sure the metrics show how many people rarely/never go into wvw. I’m equally sure that they view each and every person who spent the time to get 100% of that area as being “into” wvw.

Kitrine.5913:

Getting a legendary is hard and you have to do all sorts of things oh and for those who missed it you need badges of honor to make a legendary too.

News flash: they’ve made this easier recently. Get enough Achievement Points and awarded chests (total = 500 badges) and you never even have to go into WvW, except to the NPC who awards the Gift of Battle.

Personally I’m not fond of WvW either but back when no one had much of a clue how WvW actually worked (ie. the beginning of the game), and more importantly how to win or at least troll roamers, it was a lot easier.

Wreave.2138:

^This^. Is Anet looking at this sort of metric? How could they? The problem is that they don’t have access to info on the causative event — the player finding out about the requirement.

The “metrics”, as repeatedly expounded by player comments on this forum suggest that PVE players don’t want to have to do WvW for map completion.
At the same time, the WvWer “metrics” say we don’t want to have to repeatedly run dungeons / fractals / champion trains, or spend days PvE mapping or crafting in order to remain competitive.

Both groups have been ignored.

The map-completionists lose-out on their choice of a pretty legendary weapon skin and a title.
The WvWers lose-out on the pretty legendary weapon skin, and a title, and the option to have BIS gear, and a reasonable chance for ascended gear, and a gold-per-hour rate that equates to what they could do elsewhere.

Which group is it that gets most out of the current situation – the PvE mappers.

When posts like this start saying “I don’t want to have to complete the WvW maps to get my title; and I don’t think the WvWers should have to complete the PvE maps”, then you will get my support

MMO players have been exposed to this sort of coercion in multiple games. And we’re sensitive to any other MMO trying to pull the same stunt on us.

I had hoped that GW2 was beyond this sort of problem — e.g. by making PvP optional in Daily’s and Monthlys. But now I see that they’re not. It’s a shame.

There is no problem from the way you see it – you lose-out on a skin and a title, but the WvWers also lose-out on a whole class of weapons and armour, and an awful lot of gold.

Shadey Dancer.2907:

Alukah.2063:

Most people who don’t see it as a problem either are from a server that constantly switch colors or are in a dominating server, it’s not so funny when your server is locked with certain color for months.

Iv been in that position, had to wait weeks for SM to flip, and I am sure others have been in exactly the same position.

As has already been pointed out these types of threads pop up occasionally, as people only want the easy option. Its exactly the same as the thirst slayer achievement topic that surfaces from time to time, ’ ohhh booo hooo, I dont want to press the mouse button 100, 000 times, how can i do it the easy way’—-simple answer is, you cant, work for it!

I’m not asking for an easy option, there’s just no way to “work for it”. If you think WvW is about skill or hard work you obviously never played WvW, it’s all about numbers, you cannot beat a stacked server and there’s no workaround, their EBG towers and keep will never flip unless they want you to have them (never).

I had to wait two months at 99% just to get 1 vista, I enjoyed WvW before that, but during those two months I hated every second I spent hoping that my server could get the green keep in EBG (this was during S1) – it simply cannot happen when you’re outnumbered no matter the time of the day.

Like I said in the other thread, people who play in servers that a) is always dominant in a match up or b) constantly switch colors shouldn’t have a say in this topic, you haven’t experienced real frustration, you have no idea what you’re blabbering here.

While I am not necessarily fond of having to do WvW to obtain my cartographer title and rewards, having some type of required pvp as part of it is typical for ANet. Anyone that did the cartographer titles in GW1 should remember needing to map Jade Quarry, Fort Aspenwood, and the various smaller arenas.

Behellagh.1468:

Metrics is used because you can’t get a proper polling of players on their likes and dislikes.

I’m willing to bet the “all the things you liked about Guild Wars” came from metrics.

If one looked at the activities players spent the most time on in GW, you’d probably end up with:

• Sitting (afk) in the Shing Jea game ring (a.k.a. “playing” a mini-game)
• Grinding titles

Food for thought.

The stubbornness that Anet has on this issue makes me wonder how many of the devs and current staff were spawn campers when they were teenagers.

This kind of sorted itself out for me. I don’t think they should remove the WvWvW aspect of completion. I was sitting at 98% completion when I got my first precursor. It was the only one I wanted, the colossus. Due to ascended armor, I ended up selling it to fund my armor. Since the incentive was for me to sell the thing, I realized I will never actually craft a legendary and thus stopped trying to complete the world. So thanks for ascended armor, it relieved my need to finish the world.

@ OP: Would you feel better if for example Gift of Exploration would be created from Gift of Exploration (PvE) and Gift of Exploration (WvW) ?
Or, Gift requiring only PvE exploration, but Gift of Battle requiring instead of 500 badges something like 5000 ?

I’m asking because I have no idea what warranted such a strong reaction, especially considering PvE exploration in itself has elements that some people find undesirable (jumping puzzles or grinding hearts for example), or WvW players wanting their shiny legendary, not to mention PvP’ers who don’t even have the ability to use legendary.

Alukah.2063:

Shadey Dancer.2907:

Alukah.2063:

Most people who don’t see it as a problem either are from a server that constantly switch colors or are in a dominating server, it’s not so funny when your server is locked with certain color for months.

Iv been in that position, had to wait weeks for SM to flip, and I am sure others have been in exactly the same position.

As has already been pointed out these types of threads pop up occasionally, as people only want the easy option. Its exactly the same as the thirst slayer achievement topic that surfaces from time to time, ’ ohhh booo hooo, I dont want to press the mouse button 100, 000 times, how can i do it the easy way’—-simple answer is, you cant, work for it!

I’m not asking for an easy option, there’s just no way to “work for it”. If you think WvW is about skill or hard work you obviously never played WvW, it’s all about numbers, you cannot beat a stacked server and there’s no workaround, their EBG towers and keep will never flip unless they want you to have them (never).

I had to wait two months at 99% just to get 1 vista, I enjoyed WvW before that, but during those two months I hated every second I spent hoping that my server could get the green keep in EBG (this was during S1) – it simply cannot happen when you’re outnumbered no matter the time of the day.

Like I said in the other thread, people who play in servers that a) is always dominant in a match up or b) constantly switch colors shouldn’t have a say in this topic, you haven’t experienced real frustration, you have no idea what you’re blabbering here.

Guess not, however I have my two gifts of exploration sitting happily in my bank for over a year and you do not, Il leave it to you to guess who is the happy one and the ‘experienced’ player.

I have 15 gift of exploration stack in my bank.

It was quite frustrated for me. But I think it is much easier now since the map start to rotate. I think even if your luck is terrible you should be able to get all of it in 2 month.

Alukah.2063:

Shadey Dancer.2907:

Alukah.2063:

Most people who don’t see it as a problem either are from a server that constantly switch colors or are in a dominating server, it’s not so funny when your server is locked with certain color for months.

Iv been in that position, had to wait weeks for SM to flip, and I am sure others have been in exactly the same position.

As has already been pointed out these types of threads pop up occasionally, as people only want the easy option. Its exactly the same as the thirst slayer achievement topic that surfaces from time to time, ’ ohhh booo hooo, I dont want to press the mouse button 100, 000 times, how can i do it the easy way’—-simple answer is, you cant, work for it!

I’m not asking for an easy option, there’s just no way to “work for it”. If you think WvW is about skill or hard work you obviously never played WvW, it’s all about numbers, you cannot beat a stacked server and there’s no workaround, their EBG towers and keep will never flip unless they want you to have them (never).

I had to wait two months at 99% just to get 1 vista, I enjoyed WvW before that, but during those two months I hated every second I spent hoping that my server could get the green keep in EBG (this was during S1) – it simply cannot happen when you’re outnumbered no matter the time of the day.

Like I said in the other thread, people who play in servers that a) is always dominant in a match up or b) constantly switch colors shouldn’t have a say in this topic, you haven’t experienced real frustration, you have no idea what you’re blabbering here.

My server has been fighting in multiple tiers (including top) since launch, and rarely was it unable to do at least something on any map.

If you want the reward, stop making excuses and go do something to get it.

They have to add server color variation to every week to fix this problem.
Removing wvw from map completion is not a solution. As you hate completing wvw for world completion, we pvp players hate completing pve maps. So both has to stay to appeal to two kinds of playerbase.

OP, do you think if I start a new thread asking for a free Gift of Sunrise because I don’t want to run AC, Anet will give it to me?

Nausicca.6038:

OP, do you think if I start a new thread asking for a free Gift of Sunrise because I don’t want to run AC, Anet will give it to me?

I havn’t played for a few month so I dont’ know how much wvw changed.

The point is I can get 500 AC token in 3 days or maybe even 1 days by just playing a couple hours a day.

But even if I play 24 hours a day for 2 month, I “might” still not get wvw map completion. It’s one of the things that rely on luck.

A lot of special snowflakes in here, or people suffering from stockholm syndrome…

But seriously, i Anet wan’t someone to play WvW, forcing them to do it through the map completion is not the proper way.

we could all use the ‘arguement’ we find all over the forums about grinding for ascended gear and say “well, you don’t have to do it”, but I guess that might rub a lot of people the wrong way when it’s something personal to them huh….pretty silly to think WvW have to wade through TONS of PvE content for ascended gear to keep up with the others there that have it, yet the PvE crowd is up in arms about having to spend maybe 2 hours (not an exxageration) in WvW maps to get their map completion. so let’s all check and see if we have 3 fingers pointing back at ourselves before this thread goes any further. cheers and good day

Shadey Dancer.2907:

Raeysa, I am afraid you can not guest on another server to do WvW, it would have to be a full transfer to do that. As for asking politely, that depends on the situation. By that I mean, to get POI/ vistas etc on the general map, it would not work, as, for one you need to capture most of the towers etc to be able to get them (a rare few can be gotten by scraping the tower).

That’s why I said you can’t control it.

I had most of the Wvw maps from before getting into a bit more. You can usually get the open POI’s, Vista’s skill points without problems. It’s a bit more exciting, with pvp possibly happening any time. The ones in keeps are more difficult but try to zone into the maps and get those your server currently holds. Then tagging onto to a zerg (follow the blue tortilla chip, as it was put so by DanteZero) a few times should get you most of the remaining points. maybe you’ll even enjoy it and it may net you a bit of loot and some badges for a big-spender daily.

Anyway, it’s not under your control like most of the other maps so try not to hard to make any plans or schedules about it, let go a bit and take opportunities as they arise.

Shadey Dancer.2907:

Alukah.2063:

Shadey Dancer.2907:

Alukah.2063:

Most people who don’t see it as a problem either are from a server that constantly switch colors or are in a dominating server, it’s not so funny when your server is locked with certain color for months.

Iv been in that position, had to wait weeks for SM to flip, and I am sure others have been in exactly the same position.

As has already been pointed out these types of threads pop up occasionally, as people only want the easy option. Its exactly the same as the thirst slayer achievement topic that surfaces from time to time, ’ ohhh booo hooo, I dont want to press the mouse button 100, 000 times, how can i do it the easy way’—-simple answer is, you cant, work for it!

I’m not asking for an easy option, there’s just no way to “work for it”. If you think WvW is about skill or hard work you obviously never played WvW, it’s all about numbers, you cannot beat a stacked server and there’s no workaround, their EBG towers and keep will never flip unless they want you to have them (never).

I had to wait two months at 99% just to get 1 vista, I enjoyed WvW before that, but during those two months I hated every second I spent hoping that my server could get the green keep in EBG (this was during S1) – it simply cannot happen when you’re outnumbered no matter the time of the day.

Like I said in the other thread, people who play in servers that a) is always dominant in a match up or b) constantly switch colors shouldn’t have a say in this topic, you haven’t experienced real frustration, you have no idea what you’re blabbering here.

Guess not, however I have my two gifts of exploration sitting happily in my bank for over a year and you do not, Il leave it to you to guess who is the happy one and the ‘experienced’ player.

I recommend you to Google the meaning of “had”, either that or go back to school and ask for a refund.

But congrats for being in a privileged server / doing it when transfers were free, says a lot about how skillful you are.

AntiGw.9367:

Alukah.2063:

Shadey Dancer.2907:

Alukah.2063:

Most people who don’t see it as a problem either are from a server that constantly switch colors or are in a dominating server, it’s not so funny when your server is locked with certain color for months.

Iv been in that position, had to wait weeks for SM to flip, and I am sure others have been in exactly the same position.

As has already been pointed out these types of threads pop up occasionally, as people only want the easy option. Its exactly the same as the thirst slayer achievement topic that surfaces from time to time, ’ ohhh booo hooo, I dont want to press the mouse button 100, 000 times, how can i do it the easy way’—-simple answer is, you cant, work for it!

I’m not asking for an easy option, there’s just no way to “work for it”. If you think WvW is about skill or hard work you obviously never played WvW, it’s all about numbers, you cannot beat a stacked server and there’s no workaround, their EBG towers and keep will never flip unless they want you to have them (never).

I had to wait two months at 99% just to get 1 vista, I enjoyed WvW before that, but during those two months I hated every second I spent hoping that my server could get the green keep in EBG (this was during S1) – it simply cannot happen when you’re outnumbered no matter the time of the day.

Like I said in the other thread, people who play in servers that a) is always dominant in a match up or b) constantly switch colors shouldn’t have a say in this topic, you haven’t experienced real frustration, you have no idea what you’re blabbering here.

My server has been fighting in multiple tiers (including top) since launch, and rarely was it unable to do at least something on any map.

If you want the reward, stop making excuses and go do something to get it.

I’d like to see you 1-manning a keep, too much talk here. I’d almost bet you’re from T1 or TC.