Guild Wars 2

and…i still don’t understand about colors’ rotation…:(

If you hit B to bring up the WvW info (and are in main), you’ll see a pie chart. Your server will be one of three colors. You can enter that color controlled keeps via the magic doors. Over time, which color your server is rotates, so you own different parts of the map. You can pretty easily get the pois in the keeps you own if you can run safely to them.

@OP

Anger Metrics show to be just 1006… that’s not so bad.

WvW map completion is really about checking maps every other day and just running like hell. Seriously, stick with it and you can nail it at just the right time. (I also hated on it before accepting it, so its all good)

i mean that my server is green from 4weeks :o
what decides the color next week?

I would strongly recommend the OP, and anyone else who is annoyed, try getting map completion in WvW before complaining.

I did it recently and I really didn’t find it that bad. Most of it was very easy to get, just a matter of checking regularly to see what was available and spending a morning in EB to get the castle when it flipped.

I did have to wait a few weeks for my server to go red before I could get the last 2 points, but since I started when I was at 49% total completion that wasn’t an issue, I just kept checking whilst working on PvE maps and did them when we did change over.

Kevan.8912:

i mean that my server is green from 4weeks :o
what decides the color next week?

I think it’s rating, the server with the highest rating would be green, lowest would be red, I read somewhere that it has to do with EBG – how easy is to defend the red keep / how hard is to defend the green keep, so some servers can get stuck with certain color for some long weeks.

Depending on match up, color might not matter for some servers, as they have the numbers to take whatever they want overnight, when the enemy is unable to defend, or just attack several objectives at the same time to distract them, in NA that’s mostly T1 / Tarnished Coast vs any other server.

Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems to me that some people balk at the concept of having to do WvW, and then don’t even try. Worst case scenario, you wait until your server changes colors. Now that they changed how the matchups work, it’s pretty rare for one server to be red two months in a row like it used to be. As other people have said, as long as you don’t try to do it all at once like you might with a PvE map, it’s really not so bad.

WvW map completion jammed me up in a bad way. My server was the same color for 4 weeks, and I needed locations in areas that had not been capped in weeks.

It was very frustrating. In my opinion map completion is a PVE achievement. Forcing me into WvW just to get the map done is doing one thing: taking a spot away from a person who actually wants to play WvW.

I don’t understand why people feel that they should be given something that they don’t deserve. 100% Completion is just that…completion. Asking for the WvW parts to be taken out is the same as asking for vista to be taken out.

Maybe we should take all of it out and just logging in gets you 100%.

Perhaps that will just be too hard as well.

WvW area completion is more difficult than the rest…yup…that’s the point. Those at 100% didn’t cheat or exploit some mechanic to get it. They just did it.

I did it…on my home server…just had patience and did it. Not really that hard either.

I understand that all parts of the game aren’t everyone’s favorite, but what people are asking is just not fair or best for the game IMO. It seems more likely that they just want everything handed to them without ever trying anything challenging.

edit: If you want to ask for something, then ask for server colors to rotate better. There’s no reason why one server should be the same color for four weeks…that seems poorly designed. If fixed I bet all the anger would just disappear.

Wreave.2138:

I’ve recently started focusing on map completion, planning to get to 100% before too long. Then today I ran into this:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1uvnye/dolyak_express_first_answers_to_our_questions/

Achievements: Are you going to change the Map Completion to remove the requirement of WvW?
”We currently have no plans to do this. We’ve been doing a lot of work lately to try and bring our three core game types: PvP, WvW, and PvE more together in their systems of progression, rewards, and unlocking to try and give the game more of a sense of everything you do ties back into the growth of your character. We feel like WvW is a really good middle-ground between PvE and PvP and want to encourage people to think of the mists as part of our world they should explore and experience, we might consider adding the PvP lobby to world exploration for future characters for example to help give more incentive to visit there as well.

That being said, we’re always looking at the systems and features we have in place, and as you’ve seen since we launched if we find something we think is better, we’re not shy about replacing a current system if we find something better for the players, but accomplishes our same goals. Our over-all goal is to encourage all players to experience WvW, to have goals that keep them there long enough they might fall in love with it and take that on as a separate game time; should we find other ways that are as effective as we’ve seen world complete is for encouraging play there to see the different maps, that is just as easy to understand and uses existing systems like world complete, we’ll certainly consider them. It’s something fun to brainstorm on our forums and see what kind of ideas players might!” ~Colin Johanson

Wait. Map completion requires WvW maps too? WTF? Okay, starting to get ticked off.

Googling around finds more threads on people unhappy about this. E.g.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/100-map-completion-not-going-to-happen/first

And this in particular stands out:
http://dragonseason.com/Front/tabid/124/EntryId/211/Lunch-with-Colin-Johanson-Part-II.aspx

What are your thoughts on the PvE aspect of WvW, including jumping puzzles and world completion?

Colin: For the jumping puzzle, I would prefer that they not be in the WvW map and it’s a separate thing. Especially when there’s a queue like that and people are trying to get in. It disconnects players from the content that they are trying to play. How we answer that is going to be interesting. There’s a lot of different ways that we can separate that out, but in long run it’s very unlikely that that will stay in the WvW map where it’s eating up population queue. We’ll go somewhere else and we’ll have to figure out the best way to do that. “World Complete” is an interesting one. We’ve seen from our data metrics, that because [WvW] is on “World Complete”, there’s a bunch of people who play WvW because it takes them there to actually get to know it and they end up having so much fun, that they stay.

why shouldn’t it require you to get wvw maps? i mean do you have any clue how many more badges of honor pure pve players(achievement points are often drastically higher on pve players) get over pure wvw players? it’s seriously exponential what the difference is because of the fact that achievement chests give 300+ badges of honor. (the drop rate of badges of honor in wvw is so negligible you’d think unicef would be doing a commercial to raise awareness) and how does that even make sense?
before you go and say that they’re not connected; how many wvw players do you know that have 100% map completion? i know maybe a few.

Lightsbane.9012:

Wreave.2138:

I’ve recently started focusing on map completion, planning to get to 100% before too long. Then today I ran into this:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1uvnye/dolyak_express_first_answers_to_our_questions/

Achievements: Are you going to change the Map Completion to remove the requirement of WvW?
”We currently have no plans to do this. We’ve been doing a lot of work lately to try and bring our three core game types: PvP, WvW, and PvE more together in their systems of progression, rewards, and unlocking to try and give the game more of a sense of everything you do ties back into the growth of your character. We feel like WvW is a really good middle-ground between PvE and PvP and want to encourage people to think of the mists as part of our world they should explore and experience, we might consider adding the PvP lobby to world exploration for future characters for example to help give more incentive to visit there as well.

That being said, we’re always looking at the systems and features we have in place, and as you’ve seen since we launched if we find something we think is better, we’re not shy about replacing a current system if we find something better for the players, but accomplishes our same goals. Our over-all goal is to encourage all players to experience WvW, to have goals that keep them there long enough they might fall in love with it and take that on as a separate game time; should we find other ways that are as effective as we’ve seen world complete is for encouraging play there to see the different maps, that is just as easy to understand and uses existing systems like world complete, we’ll certainly consider them. It’s something fun to brainstorm on our forums and see what kind of ideas players might!” ~Colin Johanson

Wait. Map completion requires WvW maps too? WTF? Okay, starting to get ticked off.

Googling around finds more threads on people unhappy about this. E.g.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/100-map-completion-not-going-to-happen/first

And this in particular stands out:
http://dragonseason.com/Front/tabid/124/EntryId/211/Lunch-with-Colin-Johanson-Part-II.aspx

What are your thoughts on the PvE aspect of WvW, including jumping puzzles and world completion?

Colin: For the jumping puzzle, I would prefer that they not be in the WvW map and it’s a separate thing. Especially when there’s a queue like that and people are trying to get in. It disconnects players from the content that they are trying to play. How we answer that is going to be interesting. There’s a lot of different ways that we can separate that out, but in long run it’s very unlikely that that will stay in the WvW map where it’s eating up population queue. We’ll go somewhere else and we’ll have to figure out the best way to do that. “World Complete” is an interesting one. We’ve seen from our data metrics, that because [WvW] is on “World Complete”, there’s a bunch of people who play WvW because it takes them there to actually get to know it and they end up having so much fun, that they stay.

why shouldn’t it require you to get wvw maps? i mean do you have any clue how many more badges of honor pure pve players(achievement points are often drastically higher on pve players) get over pure wvw players? it’s seriously exponential what the difference is because of the fact that achievement chests give 300+ badges of honor. (the drop rate of badges of honor in wvw is so negligible you’d think unicef would be doing a commercial to raise awareness) and how does that even make sense?
before you go and say that they’re not connected; how many wvw players do you know that have 100% map completion? i know maybe a few.

Apples and pears, I heard they are not the same.

MokahTGS.7850:

I don’t understand why people feel that they should be given something that they don’t deserve. 100% Completion is just that…completion. Asking for the WvW parts to be taken out is the same as asking for vista to be taken out.

The problem (as has been quite clearly stated already), is that WvW doesn’t belong in a PvE achievement. The issue is that it doesn’t belong in the meta. And if that weren’t obvious enough, ANet has said that already (see the quotes from Colin in my OP). Colin is quite clear — the requirement is there to force players into the WvW part of the game in the hopes that some of those players will stick. And he’s willing to replace it (in other words, the requirement doesn’t naturally belong in the achievement)-- if there’s some other thing that will achieve the same goal.

The requirement simply isn’t about completion. It’s about converting PvE players to PvP players.

But the thing about humans, is that a lot of don’t being pushed into doing stuff we don’t want to do. Some of us in fact in fact get really kittened off about that. And a kittened off customer is just not good for business. And that’s something that Anet should be paying a lot more attention to.

I said it was a terrible idea, I still stand by that. I did world map completion on 5 characters, I loved the open world and hated the WvW maps for all of them.

To me world completion is the only enjoyable and profitable solo activity in this game and having its final part being dependent on server status/wvw matchup/other players is just terrible.

You want PvE-ers to get interested in WvW ? Well this is not the proper way. If anything it made me hate WvW for no good reason.

Lyndis.4653:

I said it was a terrible idea, I still stand by that. I did world map completion on 5 characters, I loved the open world and hated the WvW maps for all of them.

I have a relatively new character, a thief that I built so I could learn how the class works. I’ve learned lots and I’m getting better at dealing with them in WvW, but I’ve never taken that character to WvW. Because of gearing and “vertical progression” in WvW ranks I normally only play one character there.

My other characters all have WvW map clearance because early on I wanted the gift siege stuff from map clearance, but I until today I didn’t do that with this new thief because I have tons of siege these days.

Because of this thread, and just for the hell of it, I took my thief to WvW tonight. I finished map clearance on my server borderland, and our corner of EB, and got all the points in SM Castle too. I got out of there by the skin of my teeth, but that’s because I take a certain amount of pride in “not dying”. I could have just laid down and died, and still gotten the POI. It was more fun for me to let them chase me.

I’ve chased a lot of thieves in this game too.

My point is, this isn’t so hard. It just takes patience and I’ll bring that character out of the box again next weekend, depending on what color we get in the match up.

Last of all. I only have 100% map completion done on exactly 1 of my 6 characters, even though WvW mapping is done on 5 of 6. It’s not the hardest part.

Ashabhi.1365:

This again? Must be Tuesday (to paraphrase another poster in another thread…)

I want the Dive Master achievement. I don’t want to have to do jumping puzzles for it. I think JP’s are a waste of time and energy. I think they should be removed from the requirement.

I want the Slayer Title. I don’t want to have to go to Orr and kill Giants to get it. I don’t want to be forced to do something I don’t want to do in order to get my Achievement.

/endsarcasm

I’m sorry. I don’t have sympathy for you. If you don’t want to go to a WvW map, then don’t go. But keep in mind that if you don’t, then you’re not entitled to your 100%.

If you’re only doing it for your Gift, then find something else to do or whip out that credit card and buy your legendary. It’s much better to do that than be forced into doing something you don’t want to do…

post like this are pointless and insulting; people leave games over people like you so stop.

“I’m sorry. I don’t have sympathy for you. If you don’t want to go to a WvW map, then don’t go. But keep in mind that if you don’t, then you’re not entitled to your 100%”

yes they and your just being rude

Alukah.2063:

Lightsbane.9012:

Wreave.2138:

I’ve recently started focusing on map completion, planning to get to 100% before too long. Then today I ran into this:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1uvnye/dolyak_express_first_answers_to_our_questions/

Achievements: Are you going to change the Map Completion to remove the requirement of WvW?
”We currently have no plans to do this. We’ve been doing a lot of work lately to try and bring our three core game types: PvP, WvW, and PvE more together in their systems of progression, rewards, and unlocking to try and give the game more of a sense of everything you do ties back into the growth of your character. We feel like WvW is a really good middle-ground between PvE and PvP and want to encourage people to think of the mists as part of our world they should explore and experience, we might consider adding the PvP lobby to world exploration for future characters for example to help give more incentive to visit there as well.

That being said, we’re always looking at the systems and features we have in place, and as you’ve seen since we launched if we find something we think is better, we’re not shy about replacing a current system if we find something better for the players, but accomplishes our same goals. Our over-all goal is to encourage all players to experience WvW, to have goals that keep them there long enough they might fall in love with it and take that on as a separate game time; should we find other ways that are as effective as we’ve seen world complete is for encouraging play there to see the different maps, that is just as easy to understand and uses existing systems like world complete, we’ll certainly consider them. It’s something fun to brainstorm on our forums and see what kind of ideas players might!” ~Colin Johanson

Wait. Map completion requires WvW maps too? WTF? Okay, starting to get ticked off.

Googling around finds more threads on people unhappy about this. E.g.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/100-map-completion-not-going-to-happen/first

And this in particular stands out:
http://dragonseason.com/Front/tabid/124/EntryId/211/Lunch-with-Colin-Johanson-Part-II.aspx

What are your thoughts on the PvE aspect of WvW, including jumping puzzles and world completion?

Colin: For the jumping puzzle, I would prefer that they not be in the WvW map and it’s a separate thing. Especially when there’s a queue like that and people are trying to get in. It disconnects players from the content that they are trying to play. How we answer that is going to be interesting. There’s a lot of different ways that we can separate that out, but in long run it’s very unlikely that that will stay in the WvW map where it’s eating up population queue. We’ll go somewhere else and we’ll have to figure out the best way to do that. “World Complete” is an interesting one. We’ve seen from our data metrics, that because [WvW] is on “World Complete”, there’s a bunch of people who play WvW because it takes them there to actually get to know it and they end up having so much fun, that they stay.

why shouldn’t it require you to get wvw maps? i mean do you have any clue how many more badges of honor pure pve players(achievement points are often drastically higher on pve players) get over pure wvw players? it’s seriously exponential what the difference is because of the fact that achievement chests give 300+ badges of honor. (the drop rate of badges of honor in wvw is so negligible you’d think unicef would be doing a commercial to raise awareness) and how does that even make sense?
before you go and say that they’re not connected; how many wvw players do you know that have 100% map completion? i know maybe a few.

Apples and pears, I heard they are not the same.

except the argument is the same. most wvw players dislike pve, and usually have to do something outside of wvw to keep up with achievement points. much like the OP with map completion in wvw. if you think that’s different i’m a little surprised.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

My point is, this isn’t so hard. It just takes patience and I’ll bring that character out of the box again next weekend, depending on what color we get in the match up.

Read my post again and you’ll realize I never even used the word “hard”. I just said I hated it. Why do I hate that part ? Because I cannot decide when I can complete a solo achievement, because I have to pay attention constantly about a game mode that I hate, because anytime I do something else I risk missing an opportunity.

I know how to use color rotation etc, that doesn’t make it a better idea to force people into WvW.

Btw please stop comparing this achievement with JP or diving goggles, the comparison doesn’t stand because there’s no diving goggles in WvW and because JP works the same way world map completion does : it’s mostly PvE and yet you have to torture yourself into WvW to get to the even more terrible idea that are the JP laying around there. You want a real comparison ? What if you couldn’t get a WvW distinction (a title or rank for instance) unless you’ve also completed every dungeon paths with that character ?

Even if you don’t think it’s that big of a deal, when the bright side is hardly existing and the downside a real issue for some players you have to admit it should change. Because you’re also “forced” into PvE to get this PvE achievement doesn’t mean it should stay as is, it means it should change for you too.

Fractals should be required too for map completion, BUT you first have to unlock at least lv. 50. /s

Zale.9645:

Oniyui.8279:

Zale.9645:

Oniyui.8279:

Zale.9645:

But forcing PVP into a PVE achievement, or vise versa, is always, I repeat, always bad. There is no arguing that.

It’s not a PvE achievement.

You’ll find it in the General tab, under the Hero section.

It’s, quite literally, 95% PVE.

Not exactly. 95% of the achievement’s required explorable locations exist in zones where there is only PvE.

Yet, it doesn’t even include all the PvE, as it disregards Southsun Cove.

Exploring the mists isn’t WvW at all, either. It’s PvE in a WvW zone.

So you’re saying we should consider it 93% PVE?

This is just nitpicking.

You’re the one nitpicking. The point is, map completion isn’t a PVE achievement. It’s a Gw2 Hero achievement — something you achieve by being proficient in all apsects of the game. It’s NOT a PVE achievement. Dungeons and fractals, for instance, are PvE but don’t count towards Been There, Done That.

If you want to split straws, then youre being nitpicky about map completion itself. 95% of the game is PVE, WvW and PVP are very small locales in the game. But that extra 5% is part of the prestige of Been There, Done That. It’s a title you get only by conquering these portions of the game. If you can’t do that, you don’t deserve the title and the star by your name.

Besides, Been There, Done That doesn’t functionally give you anything but Legendary Mats. You can get everything else from it completing the 95% of the map. It’s not a big deal except from a pride standpoint. You get rewards for completing every map, and you get achievements points for it as well. You can live without the 5%.

Wreave.2138:

MokahTGS.7850:

I don’t understand why people feel that they should be given something that they don’t deserve. 100% Completion is just that…completion. Asking for the WvW parts to be taken out is the same as asking for vista to be taken out.

The problem (as has been quite clearly stated already), is that WvW doesn’t belong in a PvE achievement. The issue is that it doesn’t belong in the meta. And if that weren’t obvious enough, ANet has said that already (see the quotes from Colin in my OP). Colin is quite clear — the requirement is there to force players into the WvW part of the game in the hopes that some of those players will stick. And he’s willing to replace it (in other words, the requirement doesn’t naturally belong in the achievement)-- if there’s some other thing that will achieve the same goal.

The requirement simply isn’t about completion. It’s about converting PvE players to PvP players.

But the thing about humans, is that a lot of don’t being pushed into doing stuff we don’t want to do. Some of us in fact in fact get really kittened off about that. And a kittened off customer is just not good for business. And that’s something that Anet should be paying a lot more attention to.

Again, Map completion isn’t a PVE achievement. It’s a GW2 Map exploring achievement. Your entire argument falls apart on this false assumption you make.

As for Anet kittening customers off… You need to take a look at yourself if something as insignificant as this is kittening you off. Chances are, it isn’t even a big deal, because if it were, you’d have stopped playing already. Since you’re still here, it means you are actually ok with the game, more okay than not okay, and all you are doing now is some self-entitlement whining.

why shouldn’t it require you to get wvw maps? i mean do you have any clue how many more badges of honor pure pve players(achievement points are often drastically higher on pve players) get over pure wvw players? it’s seriously exponential what the difference is because of the fact that achievement chests give 300+ badges of honor. (the drop rate of badges of honor in wvw is so negligible you’d think unicef would be doing a commercial to raise awareness) and how does that even make sense?
before you go and say that they’re not connected; how many wvw players do you know that have 100% map completion? i know maybe a few.

I’m gonna argue on this point, though. Pure wvw get far more badges of honor than pve players.

I passed 300 badges of honor in a week of playing wvw. I have amassed probably 4000 already by now from playing for about a month of wvw. I spent a lot of it already on ascended gear, gift of battle and armor for looks.

The one real issue I have with wvw is what a big money sink it is. You make almost no gold doing wvw and it costs quite a bit to keep those omega siege golems coming and upgrading your keep. I still have to do dungeons (a game mode I get bored with) just to make money.

Kaos.9162:

Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems to me that some people balk at the concept of having to do WvW, and then don’t even try. Worst case scenario, you wait until your server changes colors. Now that they changed how the matchups work, it’s pretty rare for one server to be red two months in a row like it used to be. As other people have said, as long as you don’t try to do it all at once like you might with a PvE map, it’s really not so bad.

The real bottom line here is that PVE players are so afraid of PvP that they don’t want to touch it with a ten foot pole.

Seriously people, the problem is that you even bother to distinguish between pve and pvp players. I’m not a pve or pvp player. I’m a Gamer. I do everything in a game at least once if I like the game. I try new modes. I expand my horizons. I’m not stuck in this “PVP vs PVE rut”.

I’d rather play the game the way I want to play it.

/colin

Majic.4801:

I’d rather play the game the way I want to play it.

/colin

I’d rather be able to get a legendary entirely from playing WvW, but it just doesn’t work that way.

I wish I didn’t need 250,000 kills to get “Ultimate Dominator”. Man, it’s gonna take me years to get that title.

Mochann.5298:

I wish I didn’t need 250,000 kills to get “Ultimate Dominator”. Man, it’s gonna take me years to get that title.

IIRC, Yakslapper and the SM defense title literally take years worth of gameplay, at least Ultimate Dominator is feasible…

Kaos.9162:

I’d rather be able to get a legendary entirely from playing WvW, but it just doesn’t work that way.

Maybe it should.

Alukah.2063:

I recommend you to Google the meaning of “had”, either that or go back to school and ask for a refund.

Alukah.2063:

Like I said in the other thread, people who play in servers that a) is always dominant in a match up or b) constantly switch colors shouldn’t have a say in this topic, you haven’t experienced real frustration, you have no idea what you’re blabbering here.

Perhaps while he is Googling the meaning of the word, “had,” for himself he can also Google, “are,” for you.

Yeah, i read that too. It really irritates me that they don’t want to change this. What a moronic achievement in the first place. Do the devs really think this is feasible now, especially after a year, and especially after they changed the way WvW works?

It might’ve been easier during launch days, because some servers would own the entirety of EBG, but that’s not the case anymore. It should be removed from the 100% achievement.

This is one of those cases where the devs listen, but they don’t care enough to admit they are wrong about this whole issue.

Never really understood the crying about this. It’s only a problem on low pop servers where Stonemist is hard to get. Other than that just wait for rotation or a few lucky days and you got it. Even I got it. on Whiteside Ridge.

Shadey Dancer.2907:

As has already been pointed out these types of threads pop up occasionally, as people only want the easy option. Its exactly the same as the thirst slayer achievement topic that surfaces from time to time, ’ ohhh booo hooo, I dont want to press the mouse button 100, 000 times, how can i do it the easy way’—-simple answer is, you cant, work for it!

The problem is, that you’re trying to justify an inconvenience, by saying it’s challenging. On the contray. There is nothing challenging about waiting, literally for months, for a chance at getting a POI.

A lot of fanboys in here are forgetting, that it was easier during the first few months, before they changed WvW into a ranking system. Now it’s much harder, because the matches are way more balanced, and it comes down to a chance of RNG, and not skill.

Alukah.2063:

Shadey Dancer.2907:

Alukah.2063:

Shadey Dancer.2907:

Alukah.2063:

Most people who don’t see it as a problem either are from a server that constantly switch colors or are in a dominating server, it’s not so funny when your server is locked with certain color for months.

Iv been in that position, had to wait weeks for SM to flip, and I am sure others have been in exactly the same position.

As has already been pointed out these types of threads pop up occasionally, as people only want the easy option. Its exactly the same as the thirst slayer achievement topic that surfaces from time to time, ’ ohhh booo hooo, I dont want to press the mouse button 100, 000 times, how can i do it the easy way’—-simple answer is, you cant, work for it!

I’m not asking for an easy option, there’s just no way to “work for it”. If you think WvW is about skill or hard work you obviously never played WvW, it’s all about numbers, you cannot beat a stacked server and there’s no workaround, their EBG towers and keep will never flip unless they want you to have them (never).

I had to wait two months at 99% just to get 1 vista, I enjoyed WvW before that, but during those two months I hated every second I spent hoping that my server could get the green keep in EBG (this was during S1) – it simply cannot happen when you’re outnumbered no matter the time of the day.

Like I said in the other thread, people who play in servers that a) is always dominant in a match up or b) constantly switch colors shouldn’t have a say in this topic, you haven’t experienced real frustration, you have no idea what you’re blabbering here.

Guess not, however I have my two gifts of exploration sitting happily in my bank for over a year and you do not, Il leave it to you to guess who is the happy one and the ‘experienced’ player.

I recommend you to Google the meaning of “had”, either that or go back to school and ask for a refund.

But congrats for being in a privileged server / doing it when transfers were free, says a lot about how skillful you are.

AntiGw.9367:

Alukah.2063:

Shadey Dancer.2907:

Alukah.2063:

Most people who don’t see it as a problem either are from a server that constantly switch colors or are in a dominating server, it’s not so funny when your server is locked with certain color for months.

Iv been in that position, had to wait weeks for SM to flip, and I am sure others have been in exactly the same position.

As has already been pointed out these types of threads pop up occasionally, as people only want the easy option. Its exactly the same as the thirst slayer achievement topic that surfaces from time to time, ’ ohhh booo hooo, I dont want to press the mouse button 100, 000 times, how can i do it the easy way’—-simple answer is, you cant, work for it!

I’m not asking for an easy option, there’s just no way to “work for it”. If you think WvW is about skill or hard work you obviously never played WvW, it’s all about numbers, you cannot beat a stacked server and there’s no workaround, their EBG towers and keep will never flip unless they want you to have them (never).

I had to wait two months at 99% just to get 1 vista, I enjoyed WvW before that, but during those two months I hated every second I spent hoping that my server could get the green keep in EBG (this was during S1) – it simply cannot happen when you’re outnumbered no matter the time of the day.

Like I said in the other thread, people who play in servers that a) is always dominant in a match up or b) constantly switch colors shouldn’t have a say in this topic, you haven’t experienced real frustration, you have no idea what you’re blabbering here.

My server has been fighting in multiple tiers (including top) since launch, and rarely was it unable to do at least something on any map.

If you want the reward, stop making excuses and go do something to get it.

I’d like to see you 1-manning a keep, too much talk here. I’d almost bet you’re from T1 or TC.

Please refrain from launching a personal attack on my integrity and making unfounded assumptions. I have been with the same server since launch, thank you for your time!

As for the discussion in general, I think many have lost sight of the fact that the Gifts of exploration are for one use only, the making of a Legendary, the highest tier of weapon available in the game.

nexxe.7081:

Shadey Dancer.2907:

As has already been pointed out these types of threads pop up occasionally, as people only want the easy option. Its exactly the same as the thirst slayer achievement topic that surfaces from time to time, ’ ohhh booo hooo, I dont want to press the mouse button 100, 000 times, how can i do it the easy way’—-simple answer is, you cant, work for it!

The problem is, that you’re trying to justify an inconvenience, by saying it’s challenging. On the contray. There is nothing challenging about waiting, literally for months, for a chance at getting a POI.

A lot of fanboys in here are forgetting, that it was easier during the first few months, before they changed WvW into a ranking system. Now it’s much harder, because the matches are way more balanced, and it comes down to a chance of RNG, and not skill.

I’m not a fanboy, not by a long shot. Wrong gender for one. And I’ve had the experience of doing this when free transfers were available and when rankings weren’t a thing, and just two days ago (at the time of writing). A free transfer and no rankings issues, by the way, made it quicker, that’s all. That’s quick, not necessarily easier.

As noted by others, perhaps one real issue is then the colour changes (or lack thereof) at match-up.

WvW isn’t especially hard to complete in itself. It’s very possible to solo, you just have to deal with the fact that in places, the red things are that bit smarter than PvE mobs, and run in herds. But you too can run in a herd for cover if you need to. If you want the achievement quicker, that’s certainly one way to do it. You know, you spend much more time doing PvE completion. And if you took a small time in each play session to visit WvW along the way, things might be a bit different. You need not spend weeks solely concentrated on this.

Adapting to the environment is something you have most likely being doing in PvE anyway, right? I mean, looking at changing your set-up depending on what you’re largely facing, yes? Looking at changing weapon sets or armor stats, and so on? You may or may not have to do that in WvW, your build dependent. I’m personally pretty clueless when it comes to that, which is why I just deal with my dying by getting up and carrying on. Or saving it for another day.

Been There, Done That is not a WvW achievement or a PvE achievement. It’s an achievement for having done both and the problem here is thinking it’s simply PvE. It’s not, it never was, and for those who the concept of WvW is anathema*, you should simply chalk this one up to experience, and move on. If you’re unsure of WvW, it’s worth stepping in and seeing what you can do. If you’re prepared to adapt, even just a little, then you could be pleasantly surprised.

*You should all know, I hated its concept only slightly less than the usual PvP (which I have since stepped into, and found was okay, although I don’t think I’ll be back). Until I went in the WvW maps – because I wanted that achievement at all costs! – and found it wasn’t so bad. Being scared of something without direct knowledge is a pox on humankind, fear of the unknown is the great stupid we all have to defeat, simply, perhaps flippantly, put. At least in this particular case of PvErs into WvW, there is a chance for fun whilst getting over ourselves in the process.

nexxe.7081:

Shadey Dancer.2907:

As has already been pointed out these types of threads pop up occasionally, as people only want the easy option. Its exactly the same as the thirst slayer achievement topic that surfaces from time to time, ’ ohhh booo hooo, I dont want to press the mouse button 100, 000 times, how can i do it the easy way’—-simple answer is, you cant, work for it!

The problem is, that you’re trying to justify an inconvenience, by saying it’s challenging. On the contray. There is nothing challenging about waiting, literally for months, for a chance at getting a POI.

A lot of fanboys in here are forgetting, that it was easier during the first few months, before they changed WvW into a ranking system. Now it’s much harder, because the matches are way more balanced, and it comes down to a chance of RNG, and not skill.

There’s nothing challenging about WAITING. Your problem is that you are trying to make a legendary by waiting, like you did the other 95% of the map.

Get a group together to conquer a keep. Next day, get a group to conquer another keep. Any server can conquer one keep.

Lyndis.4653:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

My point is, this isn’t so hard. It just takes patience and I’ll bring that character out of the box again next weekend, depending on what color we get in the match up.

Read my post again and you’ll realize I never even used the word “hard”. I just said I hated it. Why do I hate that part ? Because I cannot decide when I can complete a solo achievement, because I have to pay attention constantly about a game mode that I hate, because anytime I do something else I risk missing an opportunity.

I know how to use color rotation etc, that doesn’t make it a better idea to force people into WvW.

Btw please stop comparing this achievement with JP or diving goggles, the comparison doesn’t stand because there’s no diving goggles in WvW and because JP works the same way world map completion does : it’s mostly PvE and yet you have to torture yourself into WvW to get to the even more terrible idea that are the JP laying around there. You want a real comparison ? What if you couldn’t get a WvW distinction (a title or rank for instance) unless you’ve also completed every dungeon paths with that character ?

Even if you don’t think it’s that big of a deal, when the bright side is hardly existing and the downside a real issue for some players you have to admit it should change. Because you’re also “forced” into PvE to get this PvE achievement doesn’t mean it should stay as is, it means it should change for you too.

Hm, I believe I brought up certain JPs and Dive Master because for me, personally, those are things I’ll never get (solo). I made myself get those required for map completion, and personally, that was much harder for me than WvW completion, in terms of getting my head around them and certain medical inconsistancies. I was alluding to the fact that Been There, Done That may not be for everyone on a similar basis – being able to walk away from something incomplete whilst being unashamed of it is what I’m suggesting, not a like-for-like comparison. Who cares if you have an achievement or not? What does it really matter?

As I’ve just said this particular achievement is neither solely PvE or solely WvW. It’s a combination. If someone doesn’t like that, it’s not worth fretting on it or get angry about it. Like other achievements, it’s just not going to happen. That’s all. Why is this an issue? What’s really the problem? I’d suggest anyone who has any issues with things like this should step back and evaluate what is truly important to them. I only say this with kind intentions, and as someone who has done just that and spoken extensively with my poor husband about it (I may also have ranted too, but it pretty much got me nowhere).

I don’t spend my time in WvW as a rule but when I do step in there? I get things done when I get things done. I’m just patiently stubborn like that.

That too, a guild group, or your regular dungeon group, or just a pug really can take a tower or keep quite easily. With a more organized team of people you play more often with you’d even be a force to reckon with, as most groups in Wvw are very loose and pug like.

Ceridwen.6703:

Hm, I believe I brought up certain JPs and Dive Master because for me, personally, those are things I’ll never get (solo). I made myself get those required for map completion, and personally, that was much harder for me than WvW completion, in terms of getting my head around them and certain medical inconsistancies. I was alluding to the fact that Been There, Done That may not be for everyone on a similar basis – being able to walk away from something incomplete whilst being unashamed of it is what I’m suggesting, not a like-for-like comparison. Who cares if you have an achievement or not? What does it really matter?

As I’ve just said this particular achievement is neither solely PvE or solely WvW. It’s a combination. If someone doesn’t like that, it’s not worth fretting on it or get angry about it. Like other achievements, it’s just not going to happen. That’s all. Why is this an issue? What’s really the problem? I’d suggest anyone who has any issues with things like this should step back and evaluate what is truly important to them. I only say this with kind intentions, and as someone who has done just that and spoken extensively with my poor husband about it (I may also have ranted too, but it pretty much got me nowhere).

I don’t spend my time in WvW as a rule but when I do step in there? I get things done when I get things done. I’m just patiently stubborn like that.

I hate jumping puzzles with a passion. The thing is, I’d hate them, and be annoyed by the requirement, but if they made them necessary for the 100% completion title I would understand it. It would fit in with the the theme. Requiring WvW doesn’t. I’m not saying I didn’t deal with it, just that I think it was a bad design decision.

imsoenthused.1634:

[

I hate jumping puzzles with a passion. The thing is, I’d hate them, and be annoyed by the requirement, but if they made them necessary for the 100% completion title I would understand it. It would fit in with the the theme. Requiring WvW doesn’t. I’m not saying I didn’t deal with it, just that I think it was a bad design decision.

Those two I originally mentioned, Diessa’s Wall Breach Blitz and Dedgehaunt’s Tribulation Scaffold? Both vistas and jumping puzzles. The wall is also a skill point. Both needed for 100% completion.

Edits!: Also, WvW is maps. Included likely because they are maps, and all maps are needed for 100% map completion. Question should really be, why we don’t have to go to the PvP lobby as well? It has PoIs on it.

Again, the achievement isn’t solely PvE.

Ceridwen.6703:

imsoenthused.1634:

Those two I originally mentioned, Diessa’s Wall Breach Blitz and Dedgehaunt’s Tribulation Scaffold? Both vistas and jumping puzzles. The wall is also a skill point. Both needed for 100% completion.

Edits!: Also, WvW is maps. Included likely because they are maps, and all maps are needed for 100% map completion. Question should really be, why we don’t have to go to the PvP lobby as well? It has PoIs on it.

Again, the achievement isn’t solely PvE.

No, it isn’t, but it should be. And just remove the stupid legendary reward and add it to something else.

imsoenthused.1634:

Ceridwen.6703:

Again, the achievement isn’t solely PvE.

No, it isn’t, but it should be. And just remove the stupid legendary reward and add it to something else.

Why should it be?

Never cared about the legendary reward myself, being honest. But that’s because I already decided I can’t be bothered with legendaries, it’s potentially useful for others who are, though. Where would you add it, out of interest?

To be honest? I’d leave it on the one, while removing the WvW requirement, and then add it to some WvW meta achievement that I don’t know or care about, to make everyone happy.

imsoenthused.1634:

To be honest? I’d leave it on the one, while removing the WvW requirement, and then add it to some WvW meta achievement that I don’t know or care about, to make everyone happy.

I like the best of both worlds approach. I’d still leave the initial map completion as is, however, and we’ll continue to disagree on that, I think!

I personally like that WvW contains map completion, I’ve done it 3 times now, and I’ll probably do it again once I decide to get another toon to 100% map

nexxe.7081:

Shadey Dancer.2907:

As has already been pointed out these types of threads pop up occasionally, as people only want the easy option. Its exactly the same as the thirst slayer achievement topic that surfaces from time to time, ’ ohhh booo hooo, I dont want to press the mouse button 100, 000 times, how can i do it the easy way’—-simple answer is, you cant, work for it!

The problem is, that you’re trying to justify an inconvenience, by saying it’s challenging. On the contray. There is nothing challenging about waiting, literally for months, for a chance at getting a POI.

A lot of fanboys in here are forgetting, that it was easier during the first few months, before they changed WvW into a ranking system. Now it’s much harder, because the matches are way more balanced, and it comes down to a chance of RNG, and not skill.

I just did my map completion this month. Oh it’s so hard, right? I’m also on Eredon Terrace, which is a low pop bottom rank server in wvw. I got the POIs and Vistas anyway. I even became a commander and led people to Stone Mist myself, taking things into my own hands and not just “waiting.” There are also websites and android apps that tell you when your world captures a specific keep or tower, so if you are really having trouble those will tell you exactly when to go to WVW.

It may have been easier during the first few months, but its STILL easy to do today, even In The worst of conditions (low pop server)

If you intend to do your map completion I suggest do the wvw part as soon as possible. Dont’ wait to start it after you finish the pve maps.

If there is a website or app which show captured point, it should be as easy as checking it a couple time a day. The main thing is patient.

Agree with the OP.

I did map completion on 1 out of 8 toons I have (long time ago). The waiting was so extremely annoying that it made me dislike WvW ever since for no other reason.

Never played it again, and I don’t intend to step in there (I get my pvp fix every day in BF4 — 64-player conquest matches) unless I miraculously craft more than 2 legendary. But considering I only play couple hours/week this game, that is very unlikely.

Still, I believe coercing people into WvW with a ‘front page’ 93%-pve achievement is not right.

I’m game with splitting map completion for pve and wvw. You’d be given the choice from the start for pve or wvw completion. Choice of pve would remove wvw completion requirement, while choice of wvw completion would reward gifts and 25 g ( requirement that character has to be level 80 to gain reward). Problem solved easy peasy

Lyndis.4653:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

My point is, this isn’t so hard. It just takes patience and I’ll bring that character out of the box again next weekend, depending on what color we get in the match up.

Read my post again and you’ll realize I never even used the word “hard”. I just said I hated it. Why do I hate that part ? Because I cannot decide when I can complete a solo achievement, because I have to pay attention constantly about a game mode that I hate, because anytime I do something else I risk missing an opportunity.

I know how to use color rotation etc, that doesn’t make it a better idea to force people into WvW.

Btw please stop comparing this achievement with JP or diving goggles, the comparison doesn’t stand because there’s no diving goggles in WvW and because JP works the same way world map completion does : it’s mostly PvE and yet you have to torture yourself into WvW to get to the even more terrible idea that are the JP laying around there. You want a real comparison ? What if you couldn’t get a WvW distinction (a title or rank for instance) unless you’ve also completed every dungeon paths with that character ?

Even if you don’t think it’s that big of a deal, when the bright side is hardly existing and the downside a real issue for some players you have to admit it should change. Because you’re also “forced” into PvE to get this PvE achievement doesn’t mean it should stay as is, it means it should change for you too.

Lol though your not the exact poster that made the apples to pear comment, you made a more detailed post so I’ll entertain your thought.

Ranks aren’t applicable in any shape or form, so we will go with title. Lol comparing pve to wvw requirement to wvw to pve requirement is like apples to the flux capacitor design.

Wvw non slayer achievements range from doing something 100k to 1 million times. Being the generous person I am, I’ll give you the 100k tower title with your now added all dungeon paths. The wvw side requirement alone requires 16,6667 hours ( 5 min buff from both your server and opponent server before being able to flip) keeping in mind that is not including time needed to break gate, travel, if tower is upgraded, or if opponent is defending hardcore as well as not including karma train if it a available which would lower time spent

Wooot now that we got the 95% out of the way and your not burnt out we come to the 5%. Lol if you think it’d be just a once then I’m done thing when it comes to wvw titles. It’d more likely be a 5% of the 100k, in other words doing all dungeons 5000 times.

Lol pvers are so spoiled

Personally, I think having WvWvW maps as part of map completion is a good idea. The problem is that your server has to be winning or have drawn a particular color for folks to get the map completion, and that’s a bad idea. Would it be so terrible if the the POIs were accessible regardless of who owns the keeps in a particular area? It would still be dangerous to get close to an owned keep.

I think using an individual achievement like map completion to try to incentivize a server wide goal like WvW dominance isn’t a great mechanic. I think encouraging typically PvE folks to come in and look around and see the entire game is a good thing, but requiring them to participate in conquering the maps or to wait for months depending on the server they’re on is setting the bar a little too high.

I hate that the last (and only) two posts I’ve made on the forums hold suggestions, but as a player who only recently decided to look into getting 100% map completion, I’m a little frustrated by the current system. Why does someone who has no interest in PvP of any kind have to run into each of the four WvW maps, hope they don’t get ganked by a bunch of people looking to actually play WvW, and maybe get what they need to complete the maps? I know some people will say “Just run in when the map looks empty” or “Follow a zerg so you don’t get targeted”. There are a few problems with these suggestions.
One, I’m not familiar with PvP, nor do I want to be. If I’m just here for the PvE content, why should I be forced to enter WvW to get an achievement? (Mind you: I know nothing in GW 2 is required, and I’m not forced to get map completion. I’m saying that IF I want map completion, THEN I am forced to go into WvW).
Two, I’m on the Devona’s Rest server. Since you can’t guest on another server when doing WvW, I’m stuck here unless I pay gems to leave a server where all of my friends are, and just from one venture into WvW to attempt map completion, I can see that our WvW leaves a little to be desired.
Three, following a zerg or entering when the map is fairly clear is no guarantee that you won’t get ganked. And running from players is a death sentence while running from that random group of raptors you ran into isn’t. Point being: if you run into players accidentally, you’re screwed.
So, given these circumstances, I propose a couple of options that could be implemented for the people who don’t want to participate in WvW, but who want to get map completion:

My first option,and the one I happen to prefer, could be that you have the option to enter a PvE instance of the map where normal enemies appear as normal so that you aren’t just wandering around without any challenges, but the only thing you risk getting ganked by are a pack of wolves. I prefer this option because it keeps the challenges you would face when mapping out the overworld while removing the sometimes completely unfair circumstances when you accidentally run into a horde of players. This way, WvW players don’t miss out on kills (because the map completionists wouldn’t set foot in the PvP map anyway) and map completionists can work towards their goals without fear of getting decimated.

Another option is to give players a choice upon entering a WvW map. You can either “play normally” where you are killable, can kill other players, and participate in the WvW festivities as normal. Alternatively, you can “opt out”, where you become an unkillable ghost who cannot be targeted and who cannot target or kill other players. You’re basically wandering around the map unable to do anything except map completion. WvW players still don’t miss out on any kills and map completionists can still wander the world secure in knowing that they can take as much time as they need to figure out how to get to a particular vista or point of interest.

Some people might criticize this because taking out the WvW aspect of map completion takes out some of the difficulty and therefore the sense of achievement. But WvW map completion is difficult to the point of being impossible if you don’t do it a certain way, and instead of being the challenging kind of difficult, it’s the frustrating kind of difficult. For the PvE players who just want to get map completion, whether for the achievement or for a legendary, maybe add Southsun Cove as an area that needs to be completed to add a challenge. Make us get all the Explorer achievements before map completion counts. If the level of challenge involved is the issue, add something that already exists in PvE as that final test rather than sending us into PvP. Southsun Cove is challenging enough, and Orr can be rough to journey through, especially alone, but it isn’t impossible to find a server that is more populated and join a group taking a temple.

My final point is that WvW should not dictate whether map completion is achieved. The only people who frequent those maps are those who actually enjoy WvW—and that’s okay. For the people who prefer to stick to the PvE, give us challenges that we’ll enjoy more than running into a map where there’s a very high possibility that we’ll die horribly just inches from the point of interest we were looking to discover.

Achievements: Are you going to change the Map Completion to remove the requirement of WvW?
”We currently have no plans to do this. We’ve been doing a lot of work lately to try and bring our three core game types: PvP, WvW, and PvE more together in their systems of progression, rewards, and unlocking to try and give the game more of a sense of everything you do ties back into the growth of your character. We feel like WvW is a really good middle-ground between PvE and PvP and want to encourage people to think of the mists as part of our world they should explore and experience, we might consider adding the PvP lobby to world exploration for future characters for example to help give more incentive to visit there as well.
That being said, we’re always looking at the systems and features we have in place, and as you’ve seen since we launched if we find something we think is better, we’re not shy about replacing a current system if we find something better for the players, but accomplishes our same goals. Our over-all goal is to encourage all players to experience WvW, to have goals that keep them there long enough they might fall in love with it and take that on as a separate game time; should we find other ways that are as effective as we’ve seen world complete is for encouraging play there to see the different maps, that is just as easy to understand and uses existing systems like world complete, we’ll certainly consider them. It’s something fun to brainstorm on our forums and see what kind of ideas players might!” ~Colin Johanson

Source:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Many-Questions-so-Dev/first#post3475412