Guild Wars 2

i’m honestly hoping that this new reskin is amazing enough to stop this fighting.

hell I was almost kicked from my guild last night for saying I liked the way the t3 reskin looked that’s how out of hand this issue has gotten

MisterEction.9382:

As far as the sides thing. It is being exacerbated by those on the T3 side that even having achieved what they want – removal of the skin from those that purchased it – are attacking those seeking fair compensation for the loss of the skin, something that really shouldn’t be of any concern to them at this point.

But you’re right that the main problem and largely ignored problem is how this was handled by ArenaNet. They gave one side everything they wanted to appease them and are using change management on the other side rather than identifying their interests and trying to find a fair solution that satisfies them as well.

When one side is repeatedly asking “just let us keep the skin” the initial people are just going to keep responding. I doubt the majority of t3’ers responding would be if people suggesting “solutions” didn’t involve “keeping the skin” every few posts.

Also as has been said many times in this thread, all reactions at this point are irrational until the new skin comes out, people see it and decide whether they want it or not, if in the case they don’t and contact support and no resolution can be reached THEN there’s something to talk about but currently there isn’t. The only official source has said full refund, anything else has been unreliable hearsay and basing any reaction on that is not rational.

Honestly these threads are better left off closed until the new skin is out, nothing constructive will come out of them because there isn’t enough information available to have rational thoughts on it, just baseless assumptions.

At the end of the day, if you don’t like the new skin you can get a refund, which i would expect (are you reading this Anet) will include 6 transmutation splitter stones. That way the gems are refunded, and armour can be reverted back to skin.

But with any luck it will be an entire new design exclusive to that gem armour that is epic then everyone will have it lol

natzmc.2895:

At the end of the day, if you don’t like the new skin you can get a refund, which i would expect (are you reading this Anet) will include 6 transmutation splitter stones. That way the gems are refunded, and armour can be reverted back to skin.

But with any luck it will be an entire new design exclusive to that gem armour that is epic then everyone will have it lol

I’m actually expecting people who purchased the original design to get at least 800 gems regardless when the new skin is released.

stof.9341:

ronpierce.2760:

Actually favoring one side and screwing the other is not the best option. The best option would have always been finding a middle ground. Let people who bought it keep it. Rework and re-release a new set for everyone to buy. People who bought it would have been happy/relieved, people who hate it would only have to deal with a small handful of people who have it, and the only people who could really be TOO upset are the people who acted too slowly on buying it, but it would be the most globally fair.

Except that the group “we don’t want that armor skin in the game” will NOT be pleased by that solution and so your solution is not a middle ground but one that favors group B and ignores group A.

That’s even worse – there are not two, but three groups in this dispute. Group A wants culturals to remain exclusive. Group B wants cultural to stop being exclusive. Group C, regardless where they stand in the discussion about exclusives, wants to retain the armor they bought.

The options are:
1. Please group A by removing armor (the option that was chosen). It will not please group B, of course, but it would mean a return to status quo from before, so they would not be that much displeased. It will definitely not please group C.
It requires some effort on Anet’s part – they need to create a new version of one armor.
2. Please group B, by adding all cultural armor reskins to the gemshop. Group C would retain their armor, so they would be pleased. Group A would cause even greater kittenstorm than before.
This version requires a major effort on Anet’s part. They’d need to create cultural variants for all cultural armor and every race. More armor than they have done since the beginning of the game.
3. Please group C, by allowing them to retain their armor. This would not please group A – they would still demand armor removal. This would please group B – who would then demand creating more culturals. . If Anet agrees to group B, see option 2. If denied, Group B would get displeased again. More than the return to status quo would do. most likely.
That option does not require any effort on Anet’s part.

Now, it might seem that all 3 options are equal, but they are not. As noted, Anet’s effort is different for every option – that would seem to favour option 3, except it is also the option that pleases the least number of people, while displeasing the most.

Basically, option 3 would displease anyone not of group C (except of course the people that do not care about the matter at all, but they can be ignored in all 3 cases equally).

Which is why it is extremely unlikely Anet would ever agree to it.

stof.9341:

Your middle ground actually bothers more people than you think. Group A is still kitten ed off. Group B is now split into two : those that bought the skin in time and the others. Your middle ground solution results in :

- Group A : unhappy
- Group B2 : unhappy

- Group B1 : happy

So it’s worse than deciding plainly for group A or group B.

As someone already noticed before me.

MrSilver.5269:

All I know is that I see VERY few people with the skin in game.

Yes. Why if someone has to be displeased, that group is the obvious choice (as they are the smallest).

natzmc.2895:

At the end of the day, if you don’t like the new skin you can get a refund, which i would expect (are you reading this Anet) will include 6 transmutation splitter stones. That way the gems are refunded, and armour can be reverted back to skin.

But with any luck it will be an entire new design exclusive to that gem armour that is epic then everyone will have it lol

It would be wonderful if the replacement skin is great and everyone wants it and can get it. If I’m happy with the skin, I won’t be any less happy because a lot of other people have it. I’m still sad more people can’t get the greatsaw. If I could, I’d be in a guild composed of nothing but greatsaw-wielding charr and run around with them all the time.

Astralporing.1957:

MrSilver.5269:

All I know is that I see VERY few people with the skin in game.

Yes. Why if someone has to be displeased, that group is the obvious choice (as they are the smallest).

If that group is that small (and I question that, as it looked like half the people in Lion’s Arch on TC were wearing it at various times), then there is no reason they should be displeased, because it will be easy for ArenaNet to work with them and find a way to make them happy despite the loss of the skin, whether it be in ensuring that the replacement armor meets the same criteria as the original or compensating them for the loss of the skin in a way that makes them happy.

There doesn’t have to be a loser in this.

I wonder how big the population of the group that absolutely hates the idea of all cultural armor being broadly obtainable is.

I also wonder if that includes the ANet devs, still.

Mnemon.6205:

I wonder how big the population of the group that absolutely hates the idea of all cultural armor being broadly obtainable is.

I have no idea. I know, that everytime when i have been mentioning that i consider the armor to be too costly, and/or quetioned it’s exclusivity, i was always piled on by a ton of people claiming that those armor’s only value is the exclusivity. That “if everyone could wear it, they would become worthless”. I don’t understand that way of thinking, but it does exist, and it seems to be shared by a lot of people.
Are they in majority? I hope they aren’t, but i just have no way of knowing.

VampyreJack.9183:

Ashabhi…it’s not that simple at all. MANY factors and grey areas to consider. simply scroll up and read my latest post for example.

I did read your post, and I do understand that you went through a lot in anticipation of getting something that you cannot now have. Unfortunately for you, this was your choice. Nobody told you to go make a new character with the idea that you could get a particular skin.

Look at it this way:

Hypothetically speaking, let’s say I saw a new car in the showroom at my local dealer. I wanted the car badly enough that I bought one, and put a deposit on another, and built a high-end, ultra modern garage in anticipation of receiving the 2nd.

After selling a number of the cars, they found out that the parent car company that built the cars were using their profits for illegal operations, and the government made it illegal to own the car. So they took all of them out of the dealerships immediately.

Next they contacted everyone who ever bought one and told them that they can’t have it any more, but they can use it until they get a suitable replacement, and that if they’re unhappy with the replacement, they can have a full refund.

I can still use the garage and probably will because I spent time, energy and money to get it, but I can’t have that car. The car company is not going to reimburse me the cost of building the garage.

As for replacing my now-illegal car, I have a choice. I can be happy with the replacement that they eventually give me, or I can take the refund. It doesn’t matter how much I love the car, I can’t keep it, and no amount of screaming is going to change that.

It’s really not that much different here. People have spent time, energy and money to get a skin they can no longer have once a replacement is offered. If they are unhappy with the replacement, then they’ll get a refund. Although the extent of that refund is yet to be determined, they did say a full refund in the official post.

There’s no way Anet is going to refund anything that anyone spent in anticipation of getting something they can’t have now.

I do hope they find an equitable solution. I also hope that they find a way to give those who want a refund a way to revert their armor to whatever skin they were using when they transmuted the T3 skin onto it.

I just don’t think that people in general have the right to ask anything more than what they spent on the actual product. Transmutation Splitters shouldn’t be necessary if they revert the player’s armor to the last skin they were showing.

Everything else that was done in anticipation of getting the new skin was a choice on the part of the player, and not ANet’s fault. They shouldn’t have to pay for it any more than I would make the car dealer to pay for my unneeded garage.

(getting out the marshmallows for the flames that are sure to come my way)

Ashabhi.1365:

VampyreJack.9183:

Ashabhi…it’s not that simple at all. MANY factors and grey areas to consider. simply scroll up and read my latest post for example.

I did read your post, and I do understand that you went through a lot in anticipation of getting something that you cannot now have. Unfortunately for you, this was your choice. Nobody told you to go make a new character with the idea that you could get a particular skin.

Look at it this way:

Hypothetically speaking, let’s say I saw a new car in the showroom at my local dealer. I wanted the car badly enough that I bought one, and put a deposit on another, and built a high-end, ultra modern garage in anticipation of receiving the 2nd.

After selling a number of the cars, they found out that the parent car company that built the cars were using their profits for illegal operations, and the government made it illegal to own the car. So they took all of them out of the dealerships immediately.

Next they contacted everyone who ever bought one and told them that they can’t have it any more, but they can use it until they get a suitable replacement, and that if they’re unhappy with the replacement, they can have a full refund.

I can still use the garage and probably will because I spent time, energy and money to get it, but I can’t have that car. The car company is not going to reimburse me the cost of building the garage.

As for replacing my now-illegal car, I have a choice. I can be happy with the replacement that they eventually give me, or I can take the refund. It doesn’t matter how much I love the car, I can’t keep it, and no amount of screaming is going to change that.

It’s really not that much different here. People have spent time, energy and money to get a skin they can no longer have once a replacement is offered. If they are unhappy with the replacement, then they’ll get a refund. Although the extent of that refund is yet to be determined, they did say a full refund in the official post.

There’s no way Anet is going to refund anything that anyone spent in anticipation of getting something they can’t have now.

I do hope they find an equitable solution. I also hope that they find a way to give those who want a refund a way to revert their armor to whatever skin they were using when they transmuted the T3 skin onto it.

I just don’t think that people in general have the right to ask anything more than what they spent on the actual product. Transmutation Splitters shouldn’t be necessary if they revert the player’s armor to the last skin they were showing.

Everything else that was done in anticipation of getting the new skin was a choice on the part of the player, and not ANet’s fault. They shouldn’t have to pay for it any more than I would make the car dealer to pay for my unneeded garage.

(getting out the marshmallows for the flames that are sure to come my way)

ArenaNet wasn’t forced by law to take the skin away from people that purchased it. it was ArenaNet’s choice to do so.

If you buy a car from a dealer and select a premium paint, spoiler, upgraded stereo, custom floor mats and other accessories and the car was completely recalled, you most certainly would be reimbursed for everything. They wouldn’t scrape the paint off, pry off the spoiler, tear out the radio, toss you the floor mats and short you the difference.

People have the right to be fairly compensated for having the skin taken away from them against their will.

I love the new armour set and own both a t3 set and a flamekissed set on my necro (human), mixing and matching between the two. “Exclusivity” went out the window for t3 many months ago, at least 1/3 players have a character in t3 human.

Introduce a replacement set in the gem store but let those who have already purchased the old set keep it. I think I speak for everyone who bought this set when I say, If we are forced to change even with the option of a refund who would seriously buy gems again? every time you go to buy something from the gem store you would have to ask yourself “Am I actually going to get to keep what I’m buying?”.

While it may be legally correct to refund just gems (as technically the gems were what we purchased with RWM) players wouldn’t consider that even. Ideally we would want to keep the set, second to that we want whatever we put in to get the gems, either a RWM refund or the cost of BUYING 800 gems with in game money.

Final Comment:
In the first place this really should have been the design for ascended armour using the various races t3 as a base. That being said forced removal of the set for players who have already purchased it is very bad form.

letting the people keep the current flamekissed design would be unfair. they can however, provide some sort of compensation like giving 800 gems AND letting them keep the new design.

angelpaladin.7921:

Phillip.6485:

If you bought a dress from a store – it’s now yours. The store owner CANNOT take it back from you simply because a bunch of customers don’t like what you purchased.

This move by ANet is illegal and unethical.

I AM NOT A LAWYER and I did not stay at a holiday inn last night

When you signed up for your account and every single time you login you agree to anets TOS which states the following

" License Grant — Any Service, Content or Software supplied by NCSOFT is licensed, not sold, by NCSOFT. All title and rights not expressly granted in this agreement, including but not limited to any IP right and the display thereof, are retained by NCSOFT and/or third-parties under agreement with NCSOFT. NCSOFT hereby grants You a revocable, non-exclusive, license for personal and non-commercial use of Service, Content and Software that is non-transferable except as permitted under Section 9©. YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ANY SUCH LICENSE TERMINATES IMMEDIATELY IF YOU BREACH, VIOLATE, OR OTHERWISE FAIL TO COMPLY WITH EACH AND EVERY PROVISION OF THIS AGREEMENT AND HEREBY WAIVE ANY RIGHTS YOU MAY HAVE HAD TO NOTICE OF TERMINATION FROM NCSOFT. IN THE EVENT OF TERMINATION OF ANY SUCH LICENSE NCSOFT MAY, IN ITS SOLE AND ABSOLUTE DISCRETION, MODIFY OR DELETE YOUR ACCOUNT, ALL RELATED CONTENT, AND ANY CHARACTER ID. "

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/

Legally they can do anything they want at any time with out any reason.

EULA are legally binding? Since when?

My toon is human, so why can’t I keep my set? This is where all the complainers don’t make any sense to me whatsoever, yet they don’t know to just shut the eff up. Let the human toons keep the set it’s the best looking armor in the history of this game.

Now – for the non-human toons, give them a full refund and let them keep the new set. Isn’t that a more competent way to deal with this mishap?

I do not know why the EULA/TOS is being brought up with regards to this situation anyway as If the situation was warranted under the EULA/TOS then that would open a huge can of worms with regards to how a customer player base would regard the company.

The mistake was ANETS and they are the only ones that will have a say in the final decision. The purists got their way and unfortunately those of us who purchased the product just have to take it as it does not look like there will be a change in ANETS current decision no matter how disappointing.

Phillip.6485:

My toon is human, so why can’t I keep my set? This is where all the complainers don’t make any sense to me whatsoever, yet they don’t know to just shut the eff up. Let the human toons keep the set it’s the best looking armor in the history of this game.

Now – for the non-human toons, give them a full refund and let them keep the new set. Isn’t that a more competent way to deal with this mishap?

Unfortunately the purists would not have that as then the skin would be more exclusive than theirs.

Leo Paul.1659:

letting the people keep the current flamekissed design would be unfair. they can however, provide some sort of compensation like giving 800 gems AND letting them keep the new design.

Why would we want another skin instead? if we don’t end up liking it the replacement holds no value whatsoever, just junk that would sit in storage.

Unlocking cultural armor racial restrictions seems the most solid way to fix the problem but also the most work for anet. This would also allow much more character customization in terms of armour combination and gives players the ability to appear unique where t3 sets are almost the standard these days.

Nightwind.8604:

Leo Paul.1659:

letting the people keep the current flamekissed design would be unfair. they can however, provide some sort of compensation like giving 800 gems AND letting them keep the new design.

Why would we want another skin instead? if we don’t end up liking it the replacement holds no value whatsoever, just junk that would sit in storage.

Unlocking cultural armor racial restrictions seems the most solid way to fix the problem but also the most work for anet. This would also allow much more character customization in terms of armour combination and gives players the ability to appear unique where t3 sets are almost the standard these days.

You can contact customer support to restore your toon’s look prior to applying the flamekissed skin if you still don’t like the new one. Isn’t the point of taking it out in the first place is so that cultural distinction via armor choices are maintained? I personally don’t want that restriction lifted.

At least you get to have an extra 800 gems as compensation if they follow my suggestion.

Would be nice to hear from the DEVS with regards to how things are going and maybe even a peek at the reskin.

As running around with my flamekissed Human is going to make it harder to let go of the armour the longer it takes.

Nightwind.8604:

Leo Paul.1659:

letting the people keep the current flamekissed design would be unfair. they can however, provide some sort of compensation like giving 800 gems AND letting them keep the new design.

Why would we want another skin instead? if we don’t end up liking it the replacement holds no value whatsoever, just junk that would sit in storage.

Unlocking cultural armor racial restrictions seems the most solid way to fix the problem but also the most work for anet. This would also allow much more character customization in terms of armour combination and gives players the ability to appear unique where t3 sets are almost the standard these days.

One thing I like about Gw2, is that any race can play any profession, because professions are not restricted to certain races. I have never been a big fan of making something exclusive. It just limits the player’s options.

I want X armor, which I can only get if I play Y race, which I cannot play if I chose Z profession.

Thankfully Gw2 does not have the Z in the above. I would love to remove Y as well. Then players would not have to consider what armor they want when creating a character (if that aspect matters to them that is.)
Instead, they could focus on choosing their preferred race.

Besides: If the cultural restrictions could be unlocked somehow, it would add a new level to the game. We could also potentially gain access to 12 more armor models. Most of them quite beautiful.

I only started playing GW2 in April so I probably missed a lot of previous drama, but this situation seems to have caused the biggest divide between players I have seen in a very long time of playing MMOs. Granted I ignored a lot of forums from previous MMOs I played. I wish I had ignored this forum too. I came here for a players helping players post and months later I seem stuck.

I believe the best course of action for arenanet would be to allow the players that already bought that skin prior to the change to keep the “old look”. The skin cannot be sold so the accounts wont have any extra value.
It seems that all this started because a lot of players disliked the fact that it looked like the human light T3 armor. They wasted a lot of “virtual gold” to obtain the cultural, and so were upset when a cheaper version of it appeared. Perfectly understandable.
So arenanet decided to change the skin and issue a “full refund” should the players who already purchased this skin do not like the new version. Now it all comes down to the nature of the refund . There are probably a lot of people who purchased 800 gems with real money in order to get that skin, just because it looked like a cultural. It was their choice to trade real money for a virtual skin, should these players get gems back instead, they will probably feel even more upset because they lost real money, to get a virtual currency in exchange that they might never use. Does’nt really sound that fair does it?
Then there are probably people who spent gold for these gems, and getting gems back might not suit them with the CURRENT exchange rate of gems→gold.
Also , there were a lot of posts from people who already used that skin on another armor, or bought dyes just for that skin, created characters just for that skin and so on… there again a full refund does not seem feasible.
As one who purchased gems with in-game gold , a refund in gems would not be something I would mind… but I am trying to put myself in the shoes of those I mentioned above…
Arenanet recommended that we wait until the new skins are out but I thought I had to voice my opinion, now that there still is time, before a potentially really unfair decision is made… We really don’t wish for this issue to go on any further… Better safe than sorry right?

JustTrogdor.7892:

I only started playing GW2 in April so I probably missed a lot of previous drama, but this situation seems to have caused the biggest divide between players I have seen in a very long time of playing MMOs. Granted I ignored a lot of forums from previous MMOs I played.

Undoubtedly this has been an absolute mess.

So I’ve been out of town since about page 11 or 12 of this thread, but I said some uncharitable things about how Anet was likely to respond (or, rather, not respond) to this situation. Anet, I just wanted to come back and say that I think you’ve made the right call, and I was completely wrong to assume non-action on your part. I know this is a tough situation all around, but kudos for making the hard call, there.

Reesha.7901:

Nightwind.8604:

Leo Paul.1659:

letting the people keep the current flamekissed design would be unfair. they can however, provide some sort of compensation like giving 800 gems AND letting them keep the new design.

Why would we want another skin instead? if we don’t end up liking it the replacement holds no value whatsoever, just junk that would sit in storage.

Unlocking cultural armor racial restrictions seems the most solid way to fix the problem but also the most work for anet. This would also allow much more character customization in terms of armour combination and gives players the ability to appear unique where t3 sets are almost the standard these days.

One thing I like about Gw2, is that any race can play any profession, because professions are not restricted to certain races. I have never been a big fan of making something exclusive. It just limits the player’s options.

I want X armor, which I can only get if I play Y race, which I cannot play if I chose Z profession.

Thankfully Gw2 does not have the Z in the above. I would love to remove Y as well. Then players would not have to consider what armor they want when creating a character (if that aspect matters to them that is.)
Instead, they could focus on choosing their preferred race.

Besides: If the cultural restrictions could be unlocked somehow, it would add a new level to the game. We could also potentially gain access to 12 more armor models. Most of them quite beautiful.

It’s a matter of preference, I personally like the idea of racially exclusive armors. It’s one of the only options we have if we want to be distinguished from the other races, especially in PvP where we can’t use our racial skills. There are tons of non-exclusive armors available now anyway, I don’t feel like it’s necessary to remove cultural armors at this point.

Leo Paul.1659:

Nightwind.8604:

Leo Paul.1659:

letting the people keep the current flamekissed design would be unfair. they can however, provide some sort of compensation like giving 800 gems AND letting them keep the new design.

Why would we want another skin instead? if we don’t end up liking it the replacement holds no value whatsoever, just junk that would sit in storage.

Unlocking cultural armor racial restrictions seems the most solid way to fix the problem but also the most work for anet. This would also allow much more character customization in terms of armour combination and gives players the ability to appear unique where t3 sets are almost the standard these days.

You can contact customer support to restore your toon’s look prior to applying the flamekissed skin if you still don’t like the new one. Isn’t the point of taking it out in the first place is so that cultural distinction via armor choices are maintained? I personally don’t want that restriction lifted.

At least you get to have an extra 800 gems as compensation if they follow my suggestion.

The point is more that we are left with gems that we didn’t ask for and an armour set we quite possibly don’t want in exchange for far more useful currency (either more in game gold then what you can resell the gems for or RWM).

That’s fair enough though with the cultural restrictions, I think everyone will have their own opinion on that.

Nightwind.8604:

Leo Paul.1659:

Nightwind.8604:

Leo Paul.1659:

letting the people keep the current flamekissed design would be unfair. they can however, provide some sort of compensation like giving 800 gems AND letting them keep the new design.

Why would we want another skin instead? if we don’t end up liking it the replacement holds no value whatsoever, just junk that would sit in storage.

Unlocking cultural armor racial restrictions seems the most solid way to fix the problem but also the most work for anet. This would also allow much more character customization in terms of armour combination and gives players the ability to appear unique where t3 sets are almost the standard these days.

You can contact customer support to restore your toon’s look prior to applying the flamekissed skin if you still don’t like the new one. Isn’t the point of taking it out in the first place is so that cultural distinction via armor choices are maintained? I personally don’t want that restriction lifted.

At least you get to have an extra 800 gems as compensation if they follow my suggestion.

The point is more that we are left with gems that we didn’t ask for and an armour set we quite possibly don’t want in exchange for far more useful currency (either more in game gold then what you can resell the gems for or RWM).

That’s fair enough though with the cultural restrictions, I think everyone will have their own opinion on that.

I’m sorry but I have to agree with people saying that nobody really bought the skins with RWM. They bought it with gems and thus are entitled for refund on gems/ingame items alone, not RWM. They might release something you’d like in the future so maybe you can save those extra gems they may send you?

I do understand how you feel though, and it’s reasonable to feel that way. TBH, I also bought the flamekissed armor and would like to keep the current skin particularly because it is an improved version of the human t3 cultural armor which i am very fond of, especially since my character IS human.

Anet added insult to injury by not only using the Tier 3 cultural armor skin but also making it way better by adding flame effect to it.

Anet completely ruined the very concept of cultural armor by selling it in the gem store and allowing all species to wear it. They further screwed it up by making the gem store version way better than the normal version. Anet needs to immediately reverse this decision and either remove the skins from the gem store or make the gem store version the boring normal version and the cultural armor skin the one with the cool flame effects.

Ellisande.5218:

Anet added insult to injury by not only using the Tier 3 cultural armor skin but also making it way better by adding flame effect to it.

Anet completely ruined the very concept of cultural armor by selling it in the gem store and allowing all species to wear it. They further screwed it up by making the gem store version way better than the normal version. Anet needs to immediately reverse this decision and either remove the skins from the gem store or make the gem store version the boring normal version and the cultural armor skin the one with the cool flame effects.

………. You’re a little late to the party……….

ronpierce.2760:

Ellisande.5218:

Anet added insult to injury by not only using the Tier 3 cultural armor skin but also making it way better by adding flame effect to it.

Anet completely ruined the very concept of cultural armor by selling it in the gem store and allowing all species to wear it. They further screwed it up by making the gem store version way better than the normal version. Anet needs to immediately reverse this decision and either remove the skins from the gem store or make the gem store version the boring normal version and the cultural armor skin the one with the cool flame effects.

………. You’re a little late to the party……….

Having to cook for and and then clean up after a huge family Thanksgiving party on top of studying and final paper writing will do that to a person.

My point was they’re already removed it from the BLTP and are even changing it from the people who bought it. So what you were wanting is already in effect. x.X The last 15 pages have been about whether or not the decision was fair to the buyers.

JustTrogdor.7892:

I only started playing GW2 in April so I probably missed a lot of previous drama, but this situation seems to have caused the biggest divide between players I have seen in a very long time of playing MMOs. Granted I ignored a lot of forums from previous MMOs I played. I wish I had ignored this forum too. I came here for a players helping players post and months later I seem stuck.

This is undoubtedly the worst I’ve seen and I’ve been here since launch, though I don’t live on the forums. The introduction of ascended gear didn’t generate this much negative emotion.

This is the first MMO I’ve ever played for more than a month or so. Have you ever been in another MMO where a company took away an item that one group of players bought at the request of another group of players like this? I’ve never experienced anything like this in my life.

here is the Sylvari that i only purchased a character slot for after the release of the flamekissed skin BECAUSE of the flamekissed skin and no other reason. Notice also, i mixed and matched with purchased Trickster’s leggings too (before the note of them reworking flamekissed…). I put the Flamekissed leggings on my mesmer because it mix-and-matches well with her outfit. I’m not just using a full set of t3 human-looking gear all on one toon anyway. None of that should matter. i want to keep what i purchased. 1600 gems worth and 28 gold for dyes (and the time i spent leveling him and playing him before note of the skin change). note: my 9th character (so it’s not like i could have just created one from a blank space, i had to buy the character expansion as well)

JustTrogdor.7892:

I only started playing GW2 in April so I probably missed a lot of previous drama, but this situation seems to have caused the biggest divide between players I have seen in a very long time of playing MMOs. Granted I ignored a lot of forums from previous MMOs I played. I wish I had ignored this forum too. I came here for a players helping players post and months later I seem stuck.

Truth be told its not that big a divide I been watching this entire topic semi closely and its mostly the same people posting in it. I am one of those people I know you are also. I don’t think its dividing the community that badly. What I have heard most people are happy to see it removed. They don’t like the fact Anet would cheapen cultural so easily.

MisterEction.9382:

JustTrogdor.7892:

I only started playing GW2 in April so I probably missed a lot of previous drama, but this situation seems to have caused the biggest divide between players I have seen in a very long time of playing MMOs. Granted I ignored a lot of forums from previous MMOs I played. I wish I had ignored this forum too. I came here for a players helping players post and months later I seem stuck.

This is undoubtedly the worst I’ve seen and I’ve been here since launch, though I don’t live on the forums. The introduction of ascended gear didn’t generate this much negative emotion.

This is the first MMO I’ve ever played for more than a month or so. Have you ever been in another MMO where a company took away an item that one group of players bought at the request of another group of players like this? I’ve never experienced anything like this in my life.

They didnt take away the item people bought with real money aka the gem’s. They have decided to redo a piece of intellectual property they own to be suit there customer’s desires.

On top of that there not removing anything from any ones account. This would be no different then a dealership calling in a rental car for service. Then changing the tires out to a different brand. The tires are different they may look different the car might ride differently, but the owner of the car has the right to modify it as they see fit.

angelpaladin.7921:

MisterEction.9382:

JustTrogdor.7892:

I only started playing GW2 in April so I probably missed a lot of previous drama, but this situation seems to have caused the biggest divide between players I have seen in a very long time of playing MMOs. Granted I ignored a lot of forums from previous MMOs I played. I wish I had ignored this forum too. I came here for a players helping players post and months later I seem stuck.

This is undoubtedly the worst I’ve seen and I’ve been here since launch, though I don’t live on the forums. The introduction of ascended gear didn’t generate this much negative emotion.

This is the first MMO I’ve ever played for more than a month or so. Have you ever been in another MMO where a company took away an item that one group of players bought at the request of another group of players like this? I’ve never experienced anything like this in my life.

They didnt take away the item people bought with real money aka the gem’s. They have decided to redo a piece of intellectual property they own to be suit there customer’s desires.

On top of that there not removing anything from any ones account. This would be no different then a dealership calling in a rental car for service. Then changing the tires out to a different brand. The tires are different they may look different the car might ride differently, but the owner of the car has the right to modify it as they see fit.

People bought the item legitimately for their accounts. They didn’t rent it. It has no return date. They are taking what some people bought away from them against their will to placate other people. It being a virtual item doesn’t make what is being done any less unethical or immoral.

It is nothing like a car rental as you described it, on any level. Nothing in your analogy compares to anything in the current situation.

MisterEction.9382:

JustTrogdor.7892:

I only started playing GW2 in April so I probably missed a lot of previous drama, but this situation seems to have caused the biggest divide between players I have seen in a very long time of playing MMOs. Granted I ignored a lot of forums from previous MMOs I played. I wish I had ignored this forum too. I came here for a players helping players post and months later I seem stuck.

This is undoubtedly the worst I’ve seen and I’ve been here since launch, though I don’t live on the forums. The introduction of ascended gear didn’t generate this much negative emotion.

This is the first MMO I’ve ever played for more than a month or so. Have you ever been in another MMO where a company took away an item that one group of players bought at the request of another group of players like this? I’ve never experienced anything like this in my life.

The truly unfortunate thing about all this is the precedence it has created…

Some people don’t like something? Scream and whine loud enough (with certain catch-phrases thrown into it like how ‘devalued’ something has become) and Anet will respond…
It was already fairly standard practice to drown out anything positive said here on the forums… But now?
‘Toxic’ doesn’t even begin to describe things here…

We all /really/ should think about this for a moment and put it in perspective…
All this started because some people were unhappy that a bunch of digital pixels had the same silhouette as another set of digital pixels, and thus they didn’t feel ‘special’ anymore…

Everyone can say what they like, candy-coat it however you want… But in the end, that’s what it comes down to…

I dunno… Seems to me the cool thing to do on the internet these days is have an opinion and be righteously indignant over it, and then make sure anyone else that has a different opinion then yours suffers as much as possible…

A sad state of affairs, truly…

Leo Paul.1659:

Nightwind.8604:

Leo Paul.1659:

Nightwind.8604:

Leo Paul.1659:

letting the people keep the current flamekissed design would be unfair. they can however, provide some sort of compensation like giving 800 gems AND letting them keep the new design.

Why would we want another skin instead? if we don’t end up liking it the replacement holds no value whatsoever, just junk that would sit in storage.

Unlocking cultural armor racial restrictions seems the most solid way to fix the problem but also the most work for anet. This would also allow much more character customization in terms of armour combination and gives players the ability to appear unique where t3 sets are almost the standard these days.

You can contact customer support to restore your toon’s look prior to applying the flamekissed skin if you still don’t like the new one. Isn’t the point of taking it out in the first place is so that cultural distinction via armor choices are maintained? I personally don’t want that restriction lifted.

At least you get to have an extra 800 gems as compensation if they follow my suggestion.

The point is more that we are left with gems that we didn’t ask for and an armour set we quite possibly don’t want in exchange for far more useful currency (either more in game gold then what you can resell the gems for or RWM).

That’s fair enough though with the cultural restrictions, I think everyone will have their own opinion on that.

I’m sorry but I have to agree with people saying that nobody really bought the skins with RWM. They bought it with gems and thus are entitled for refund on gems/ingame items alone, not RWM. They might release something you’d like in the future so maybe you can save those extra gems they may send you?

I do understand how you feel though, and it’s reasonable to feel that way. TBH, I also bought the flamekissed armor and would like to keep the current skin particularly because it is an improved version of the human t3 cultural armor which i am very fond of, especially since my character IS human.

Yeah we are likely only entitled to a gem refund, however this still screws people over despite being legally sufficient. For those of us who did buy gems just because this particular skin looked extremely nice, who otherwise wouldn’t have bought them feel like we have been cheated only getting “store credit” back.

I imagine others feel the same but I’m not keen to purchase anything from a company when I’m not sure if I will actually get the product or just end up out of pocket and with store credit lol.

The irony of that is pretty amusing too, those of us on human characters using the human cultural reskin having it removed so only human characters can wear that particular model :P

slurpey.6014:

Quizotic.2815:

slurpey.6014:

Again the so called product is not yours and never will be, doesn’t matter if you paid real life money, in game money or donkeys for that item. Stop screaming for things you have no rights on lol.

if that’s the case than how did that guy from proudmoore on wow win his case, believe it or not but if their contract they have us agree brakes any rules of said country, a person has the right to sue. and if their not happy with their purchase because of a bait and switch, they have a right to get their money back

That dude sued Blizzard for a breach of security after purchasing a false advertised product that authenticates the player and protects their account and private information.

How did the skin Anet released caused any security issues with your account?

Link the contract that states that you own the right on their copyrighted material and game itself after you donated a specific amount of money to the game itself. I yet have to see that…

no he sue’d because they banned him for advertising for a gay guild, despite the fact their term of use contract says they could ban for anything at anytime, and they still lost. clicking a I agree button doesn’t hold up in the court of law is what im saying.

edit:sorry ment to say they banned his guild for being a gay guild and lost

MisterEction.9382:

angelpaladin.7921:

MisterEction.9382:

JustTrogdor.7892:

I only started playing GW2 in April so I probably missed a lot of previous drama, but this situation seems to have caused the biggest divide between players I have seen in a very long time of playing MMOs. Granted I ignored a lot of forums from previous MMOs I played. I wish I had ignored this forum too. I came here for a players helping players post and months later I seem stuck.

This is undoubtedly the worst I’ve seen and I’ve been here since launch, though I don’t live on the forums. The introduction of ascended gear didn’t generate this much negative emotion.

This is the first MMO I’ve ever played for more than a month or so. Have you ever been in another MMO where a company took away an item that one group of players bought at the request of another group of players like this? I’ve never experienced anything like this in my life.

They didnt take away the item people bought with real money aka the gem’s. They have decided to redo a piece of intellectual property they own to be suit there customer’s desires.

On top of that there not removing anything from any ones account. This would be no different then a dealership calling in a rental car for service. Then changing the tires out to a different brand. The tires are different they may look different the car might ride differently, but the owner of the car has the right to modify it as they see fit.

People bought the item legitimately for their accounts. They didn’t rent it. It has no return date. They are taking what some people bought away from them against their will to placate other people. It being a virtual item doesn’t make what is being done any less unethical or immoral.

It is nothing like a car rental as you described it, on any level. Nothing in your analogy compares to anything in the current situation.

I am sorry to continue to upset you but according to the contract you signed with Arena.net and NCsoft your only renting the rights to the game. Maybe you wanna contact them directly if you need extra help on that.

License Grant — Any Service, Content or Software supplied by NCSOFT is licensed, not sold, by NCSOFT. All title and rights not expressly granted in this agreement, including but not limited to any IP right and the display thereof, are retained by NCSOFT and/or third-parties under agreement with NCSOFT. NCSOFT hereby grants You a revocable, non-exclusive, license for personal and non-commercial use of Service, Content and Software that is non-transferable except as permitted under Section 9©. YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ANY SUCH LICENSE TERMINATES IMMEDIATELY IF YOU BREACH, VIOLATE, OR OTHERWISE FAIL TO COMPLY WITH EACH AND EVERY PROVISION OF THIS AGREEMENT AND HEREBY WAIVE ANY RIGHTS YOU MAY HAVE HAD TO NOTICE OF TERMINATION FROM NCSOFT. IN THE EVENT OF TERMINATION OF ANY SUCH LICENSE NCSOFT MAY, IN ITS SOLE AND ABSOLUTE DISCRETION, MODIFY OR DELETE YOUR ACCOUNT, ALL RELATED CONTENT, AND ANY CHARACTER ID.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/

Phillip.6485:

angelpaladin.7921:

Phillip.6485:

If you bought a dress from a store – it’s now yours. The store owner CANNOT take it back from you simply because a bunch of customers don’t like what you purchased.

This move by ANet is illegal and unethical.

I AM NOT A LAWYER and I did not stay at a holiday inn last night

When you signed up for your account and every single time you login you agree to anets TOS which states the following

" License Grant — Any Service, Content or Software supplied by NCSOFT is licensed, not sold, by NCSOFT. All title and rights not expressly granted in this agreement, including but not limited to any IP right and the display thereof, are retained by NCSOFT and/or third-parties under agreement with NCSOFT. NCSOFT hereby grants You a revocable, non-exclusive, license for personal and non-commercial use of Service, Content and Software that is non-transferable except as permitted under Section 9©. YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ANY SUCH LICENSE TERMINATES IMMEDIATELY IF YOU BREACH, VIOLATE, OR OTHERWISE FAIL TO COMPLY WITH EACH AND EVERY PROVISION OF THIS AGREEMENT AND HEREBY WAIVE ANY RIGHTS YOU MAY HAVE HAD TO NOTICE OF TERMINATION FROM NCSOFT. IN THE EVENT OF TERMINATION OF ANY SUCH LICENSE NCSOFT MAY, IN ITS SOLE AND ABSOLUTE DISCRETION, MODIFY OR DELETE YOUR ACCOUNT, ALL RELATED CONTENT, AND ANY CHARACTER ID. "

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/

Legally they can do anything they want at any time with out any reason.

EULA are legally binding? Since when?

Ok I simplify it for you. Until you can find a lawyer willing to eat the cost of taking this to court (which would most likely be millions) or you your self decide to take it to court then its a legal binding contract. On top of that its a legal binding contract until a judge say’s otherwise. Basically until a judge say’s this contract isn’t legal Anet can do as they please with our accounts.

Quizotic.2815:

slurpey.6014:

Quizotic.2815:

slurpey.6014:

Again the so called product is not yours and never will be, doesn’t matter if you paid real life money, in game money or donkeys for that item. Stop screaming for things you have no rights on lol.

if that’s the case than how did that guy from proudmoore on wow win his case, believe it or not but if their contract they have us agree brakes any rules of said country, a person has the right to sue. and if their not happy with their purchase because of a bait and switch, they have a right to get their money back

That dude sued Blizzard for a breach of security after purchasing a false advertised product that authenticates the player and protects their account and private information.

How did the skin Anet released caused any security issues with your account?

Link the contract that states that you own the right on their copyrighted material and game itself after you donated a specific amount of money to the game itself. I yet have to see that…

no he sue’d because they banned him for advertising for a gay guild, despite the fact their term of use contract says they could ban for anything at anytime, and they still lost. clicking a I agree button doesn’t hold up in the court of law is what im saying.

edit:sorry ment to say they banned his guild for being a gay guild and lost

People need to learn to read before they post cause misinformation is no good. I just read the article related to that and she was not banned she was warned to take it to the forums. Also if it was taken to court that’s in a completely different realm then someone taking away your virtual item.

angelpaladin.7921:

Ok I simplify it for you. Until you can find a lawyer willing to eat the cost of taking this to court (which would most likely be millions) or you your self decide to take it to court then its a legal binding contract. On top of that its a legal binding contract until a judge say’s otherwise. Basically until a judge say’s this contract isn’t legal Anet can do as they please with our accounts.

I agree that ANet can essentially do as they please in this sort of situation with little fear of legal action on the part of affected players but…

The fact that nearly all of the power in the relationship between ANet and any given player lies with ANet does not mean that the contract is legally binding, just that it is binding (so far).

angelpaladin.7921:

People need to learn to read before they post cause misinformation is no good. I just read the article related to that and she was not banned she was warned to take it to the forums. Also if it was taken to court that’s in a completely different realm then someone taking away your virtual item.

I apologize for the misinformation, I was told the story awhile ago and I guess parts of it got exaggerated. tho id still say this falls under bait-and-switch, even if unintentional

Really aside that saying eula as a threat is just wrong….
Its useless to debate about law because nobody will ever sue anet for an armor…

But what about if people around the internet started to know that:
In GW2 happened that people can be spoiled of what they got or bought LEGIT because some people complain?

Will be one of those mistake in mmorpg known forever like Whate happened in EVE with the goggle (or whatever it was)…..
The solution is the worst mistake they could do.

angelpaladin.7921:

MisterEction.9382:

angelpaladin.7921:

MisterEction.9382:

JustTrogdor.7892:

I only started playing GW2 in April so I probably missed a lot of previous drama, but this situation seems to have caused the biggest divide between players I have seen in a very long time of playing MMOs. Granted I ignored a lot of forums from previous MMOs I played. I wish I had ignored this forum too. I came here for a players helping players post and months later I seem stuck.

This is undoubtedly the worst I’ve seen and I’ve been here since launch, though I don’t live on the forums. The introduction of ascended gear didn’t generate this much negative emotion.

This is the first MMO I’ve ever played for more than a month or so. Have you ever been in another MMO where a company took away an item that one group of players bought at the request of another group of players like this? I’ve never experienced anything like this in my life.

They didnt take away the item people bought with real money aka the gem’s. They have decided to redo a piece of intellectual property they own to be suit there customer’s desires.

On top of that there not removing anything from any ones account. This would be no different then a dealership calling in a rental car for service. Then changing the tires out to a different brand. The tires are different they may look different the car might ride differently, but the owner of the car has the right to modify it as they see fit.

People bought the item legitimately for their accounts. They didn’t rent it. It has no return date. They are taking what some people bought away from them against their will to placate other people. It being a virtual item doesn’t make what is being done any less unethical or immoral.

It is nothing like a car rental as you described it, on any level. Nothing in your analogy compares to anything in the current situation.

I am sorry to continue to upset you but according to the contract you signed with Arena.net and NCsoft your only renting the rights to the game. Maybe you wanna contact them directly if you need extra help on that.

You aren’t upsetting me, and you know it. You’re just trying to provoke me.

Licensing and renting are different things in law. But what ArenaNet can do or refuse to do by law isn’t the issue. By law, ArenaNet had no obligation to stop selling the armor and take it from those who already bought it to make the people who didn’t like it happy. But they did. So they clearly can and will do things they aren’t obligated to do by law to make customers happy.

The existence of that license does nothing to absolve ArenaNet from having a moral and ethical obligation to deal with all its customers fairly. Just because a company can get away with doing something bad to people doesn’t mean they should do something bad to people.

Now the T3 got a truly uniqueness…

You now know that most T3 owners are the people that asked anet to steal things other people got legit.

T3 from now on = shame…. just remember this.

Quizotic.2815:

angelpaladin.7921:

People need to learn to read before they post cause misinformation is no good. I just read the article related to that and she was not banned she was warned to take it to the forums. Also if it was taken to court that’s in a completely different realm then someone taking away your virtual item.

I apologize for the misinformation, I was told the story awhile ago and I guess parts of it got exaggerated. tho id still say this falls under bait-and-switch, even if unintentional

There is no such thing as an “unintentional” bait and switch. There has to be intent.
It’s a moot point anyway. Anet made a mistake and are simply correcting that mistake.
You can argue legal terms all day, but in the end it’s not a legal matter.

You should also be warned that making any threat of legal action here on the forums will prevent you from getting any kind of refund or support without obtaining a lawyer. Support has stated many times that once legal action is threatened, they will no longer speak to you and all future correspondence will have to go through their attorney. So watch what you say unless you are willing to carry your threat out.

LordByron.8369:

Now the T3 got a truly uniqueness…

You now know that most T3 owners are the people that asked anet to steal things other people got legit.

T3 from now on = shame…. just remember this.

That’s your opinion and it’s a safe to assume not the opinion of the rest of the community.
It’s also safe to assume that every time you now see the T3 armor it is going to make you rage inside and ruin your game play, so you may want to let it go.