Guild Wars 2

Eurhetemec.9052:

As for elitism being at the bottom of the list – no, it isn’t – it’s one of the main reasons that very few players do dungeons – which means the game is failing to get people into some content that is meant to be showcasing it. That that content is being wasted because people are afraid of exclusion.

On the other hand, people quit doing dungeons because majority of PUG runs are not optimal at best, and plain terrible at worst. In such cases the content is wasted because of inability to filter like-minded players from the masses.

Finding a dedicated and professional dungeon guild isn’t an answer because of varied schedules, different time zones, language barriers, et cetera. And although I belong to a one, I’ve never seen a MMO with smaller amount of professional PvE guilds.

TooBz.3065:

Two points, first, no check box or gear selection option on a LFG tool is going to weed out that kind of “bad.”

The way LFG is being designed, it would simply make your party invisible to anyone that doesn’t have a certain weapon or a certain skill equipped, so yeah it could weed out quite a lot.

The obvious problem with that is that would work more effectively than anyone can imagine or predict, causing a lot of issues.

Konrad.9587:

On the other hand, people quit doing dungeons because majority of PUG runs are not optimal at best, and plain terrible at worst. In such cases the content is wasted because of inability to filter like-minded players from the masses.

Finding a dedicated and professional dungeon guild isn’t an answer because of varied schedules, different time zones, language barriers, et cetera. And although I belong to a one, I’ve never seen a MMO with smaller amount of professional PvE guilds.

I don’t buy it, Konrad. I certainly agree PUG runs tend not to be “optimal”, but that’s a ridiculous standard. “Optimal” is for friends and guildies.

Also you are proving my point; you say “I’ve never seen a MMO with a smaller amount of professional PvE guilds.”. Think about that.

Professional PvE guilds are not using tools to pick their member for dungeons. They are not playing with PUGs. They are playing with each other (ahem!). So the problem is NOT the tool. Professional PvErs want a gear ladder. That’s why they aren’t here. So you’re confusing two different things here.

AntiGw.9367:

TooBz.3065:

Two points, first, no check box or gear selection option on a LFG tool is going to weed out that kind of “bad.”

The way LFG is being designed, it would simply make your party invisible to anyone that doesn’t have a certain weapon or a certain skill equipped, so yeah it could weed out quite a lot.

The obvious problem with that is that would work more effectively than anyone can imagine or predict, causing a lot of issues.

My point was not that you wouldn’t weed out a lot, but just that if the expectation is that you only want to run with warriors who don’t camp on a great sword, then unless LFG includes a long questionaire you aren’t going to hit that level.

So the logical next step is to have the game constantly analyze your performance and generate a historical DPS while in each dungeon. You could weed everyone out on that.

Frankly, I half want you to get what you want just so I could watch the game die as a result. I think it would be fascinating to see first hand.

Or it could just have a gear check option for when people want to join your group.

I really don’t see the problem with it, I love gear checks because then it shows that the party leader is semi-serious about the dungeon run and then I just get to ping all of my good gear which they won’t have any problems with.

colesy.8490:

Or it could just have a gear check option for when people want to join your group.

I really don’t see the problem with it, I love gear checks because then it shows that the party leader is semi-serious about the dungeon run and then I just get to ping all of my good gear which they won’t have any problems with.

/signed

LFG tool is very nice, Just follow the simple rule 2 people in the party have less than 3k AP, or one person has less than 1k, dont even bother with the run. It will save you alot of headaches…..

NOTE: this does not mean that having high AP will guarantee a smooth run, just decreases the chances of a bad run.

Konrad.9587:

Eurhetemec.9052:

As for elitism being at the bottom of the list – no, it isn’t – it’s one of the main reasons that very few players do dungeons – which means the game is failing to get people into some content that is meant to be showcasing it. That that content is being wasted because people are afraid of exclusion.

On the other hand, people quit doing dungeons because majority of PUG runs are not optimal at best, and plain terrible at worst. In such cases the content is wasted because of inability to filter like-minded players from the masses.

Finding a dedicated and professional dungeon guild isn’t an answer because of varied schedules, different time zones, language barriers, et cetera. And although I belong to a one, I’ve never seen a MMO with smaller amount of professional PvE guilds.

I have what I call a dungeon roster….. players that I ran with in PUGS etc that know their class and are in full zerker… I add them to friends and nickname them COE ( Name)… whenever i want a dungeon run I jut go down the list and ask them all….

Aurust.8961:

I have what I call a dungeon roster….. players that I ran with in PUGS etc that know their class and are in full zerker… I add them to friends and nickname them COE ( Name)… whenever i want a dungeon run I jut go down the list and ask them all….

That’s what I did in every other game I played, including WoW, as late as Cataclysm, for any serious content, or if I really need to be done in 20 minutes instead of 30.

These people demanding gear-checks built into the machinery of the game are, as I said, ironically being very lazy. They keep demanding people “get good” (which seems to mean “wear full zerker”, not actually “get good”, otherwise gear checks wouldn’t help), and do hard work to learn to play and so on, but they don’t want to expend the absolutely minimal effort of asking people on their friends list – even though it’s the only REAL way to get people who are good, not just “technically wearing the right gear”.

Well zerkers have a higher chance of running a proper build and understanding their class than random bads in cleric do.

Also, we don’t always have people on our friend list to play with.

colesy.8490:

Well zerkers have a higher chance of running a proper build and understanding their class than random bads in cleric do.

Also, we don’t always have people on our friend list to play with.

Why not, Colesy? Get more friends. Try harder. Stop trying to get the LFG tool to act as a crutch. If you were really as elite as you say, I find it hard to believe you wouldn’t have enough friends to run stuff most of the time.

Sure zerkers have a better chance, but it’s only a chance, and all it does increase a PROBLEM already present in GW2 – that the only good way to gear for PvE is zerker – it takes that from being a problem the playerbase discusses, to being a problem the GAME endorses. That’s a serious step. The devs probably want to spend resources to address the zerker problem, not to make it worse!

Haven’t bothered to use it for a couple of reasons:

Dungeons were content I was interested in 8-10 months ago.
The community already had a great solution http://gw2lfg.com

If you have any decent suggestion to weed out the horrible players who not only have no clue about the dungeon you’re doing, but also don’t listen and don’t read the chat, let me know because I’m going crazy and starting to 3man dungeons even more often than before. We’re trying to post some discriminatory wall of text as in “experienced only – experience in speedrun tactics – good knowledge of the class” and whatnot, even some arbitrary “4k+ ap” but it’s completely pointless. All we gain is weed out 300 ap newbies, but that’s it.
I’d also like to know how a gear check is supposed to help mitigate my migraine, since pugs are so freaking BAD they don’t even know the basic tactics!!!! AND don’t listen when I tell them. Jesus! I’m freaking out. Why should I even care if someone is full berserker, when they insist on being deafmutes?

Eurhetemec.9052:

colesy.8490:

Well zerkers have a higher chance of running a proper build and understanding their class than random bads in cleric do.

Also, we don’t always have people on our friend list to play with.

Why not, Colesy? Get more friends. Try harder. Stop trying to get the LFG tool to act as a crutch. If you were really as elite as you say, I find it hard to believe you wouldn’t have enough friends to run stuff most of the time.

Sure zerkers have a better chance, but it’s only a chance, and all it does increase a PROBLEM already present in GW2 – that the only good way to gear for PvE is zerker – it takes that from being a problem the playerbase discusses, to being a problem the GAME endorses. That’s a serious step. The devs probably want to spend resources to address the zerker problem, not to make it worse!

lol, as if friends are some commodity you can buy off the TP? In case you didn’t know, people actually have lives and aren’t always available to play with me when I want to do dungeons.

Zerker gear is not a problem either, the problem is players refusing to use it and using other gear stat combinations which are designed for WvW/PvP.

Grumpdogg.6910:

Haven’t bothered to use it for a couple of reasons:

Dungeons were content I was interested in 8-10 months ago.
The community already had a great solution http://gw2lfg.com

Every MMO needs in game LFG system.Everything that is outside of the game will never be as used as the one that is build in the actual game.

gw2lfg.com is useful and will be useful to some time.When more people receive access to the new LFG tool,i don’t see a reason why would they even want to use gw2lfg.com.

moiraine.2753:

Every MMO needs in game LFG system.Everything that is outside of the game will never be as used as the one that is build in the actual game.

g2lfg.com is useful and will be useful to some time.When more people receive access to the new LFG tool,i don’t see why would they want to use gw2lfg.com.

More robust?

Haviz,
I have no idea what you just said.Learn to write on proper english please.

moiraine.2753:

Haviz,
I have no idea what you just said.Learn to write on proper english please.

It’s an engineering term but still proper one.

Also it’s “Learn to write proper English, please.”

Eurhetemec.9052:

Harper.4173:

Maybe it’ll make for smoother runs and provide incentive for players to get better.

How would it possibly do that if you separate the best players off from everyone else? Without the good players to teach the rest, things will not change, don’t be silly.

Harper.4173:

Here’s the deal – you’re right – elite players know other elite playes – but I’m not here to sync schedules.

The tool should provide the option for me to create a group based on certain criteria- those who can qualify get in and we start a smooth and well organized run.

My schedule is erratic. I’m not here to start organizing things. I want to get in – get the stuff done as fast as possible with as little effort as possible and get out.

There’s no reason that the tool should do that. The devs aren’t here to cater to your erratic schedule ahead of making the tool work for the majority of their playerbase. If you want to get in and get things done, you should do it the way you always have been.

You simply cannot go on about the value of hard work and then refuse to do what is actual pretty minimal organising. Set up a website for elites looking for elites if you care that much! Or wait for someone else to do it. But don’t demand the devs make a tool exclusionary to support what is probably 1-5% of their playerbase (some of whom CROW about never having bought gems!).

Harper.4173:

As far as being a burden for the devs – check again.
I’m playing THEIR game, I’ve bought it – I’ve spent a lot of cash on gems – I’m not being a burden – I’m giving them money and time despite their best efforts to kick me off.

It’s not likely you spend more money than casual players, though – in fact every other cash-shop MMO (f2p or b2p) that isn’t a Korean grinder suggests casual players and mid-casuals are the key spenders. I’m sure that’s especially true here, where gold can, eventually, buy anything in the cash shop.

Did you read my short story about how i did FoWSC for the first time?
You don’t NEED to be in a run to learn a run. Just watching it/ figuring it out is enough.

You can improve a lot even without someone who’s better holding your hand.
This game was made for the average individual – you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to get better at it. Just work and keep at it.

Regarding my schedule – i agree – maybe that’s my business but the tool wasn’t for me. it was to facilitate a certain convenient way of grouping up.

Also regarding cash – I’ve dumped a lot more than the average casual – I can assure you – since I take the game very seriously – and have need of a lot of gold.

If my attitude of setting the bar high is keeping bads away from my dungeons runs – I’m not exactly sad about it.

People are staying away from dungeons not because of the " elitists " but because of bad pug runs that they refuse to learn from.
Instead of going " oh – i probably suck at this dungeon – my party told me so and kicked me – i better man up and get better at whatever I’m not doing good" all this anti-elitist attitude has made them go " oh you’re telling me what to do – kitten you elitist scum, i’ll play how I want"

And that’s why people aren’t improving.
Elitism – Exclusion from runs or content – the primary selective ppressor is being eliminated – so what’s lelf to force them to change?

Harper.4173:

If my attitude of setting the bar high is keeping bads away from my dungeons runs – I’m not exactly sad about it.

People are staying away from dungeons not because of the " elitists " but because of bad pug runs that they refuse to learn from.
Instead of going " oh – i probably suck at this dungeon – my party told me so and kicked me – i better man up and get better at whatever I’m not doing good" all this anti-elitist attitude has made them go " oh you’re telling me what to do – kitten you elitist scum, i’ll play how I want"

And that’s why people aren’t improving.
Elitism – Exclusion from runs or content – the primary selective ppressor is being eliminated – so what’s lelf to force them to change?

There is nothing to improve or get better at. There is no content that requires any particular gear or stat or skill/trait combination. All content is designed to be completed by anyone.

Elitists want people to use particular gear/stat/trait combinations to suit their personal convenience (faster runs).

You are asking for a feature that supports what makes no sense to support – there’s no content that would require what you are asking for.

I like the LFG tool a lot. Simple, fast and easy to use. I also really like the Merg Party function.

I’d like to share what happened to me just now due to the fact that party merging has no confirm option.
I was in a group of 4 players (my self included) wanting to do the story mode. We had trouble finding a 5th. So we decided to try and see how far we could get. Figuring any 5th would be able to join us at an time.
Half way through the dungeon we lost a player. Don’t know if that was due to IRL or other possibilities.
So, with 3 members and up against the lovers bosses, we decided to wait for 2 more.
Now here comes the not fun part:
Some “elite” thought he’d get a party for his Path whatever fast by merging some groups together. Only because story mode and explore mode are in the same search, and the guy wasn’t paying attention. He merged his explore party with our story mode party.
Result: we got dumped out of our half finished dungeon, and then i got kicked from the "elite"’s party because he realized his “mistake” to late.
On top of that, it happened so fast that chat didn’t register who caused it. So i couldn’t even “thank” the guy. for the wasted half hour.

It’s with these situations that an extra confirm option can prevent. It really wouldn’t stop parties from forming, it would prevent accidental party merges that weren’t as intended.

AntiGw.9367:

Harper.4173:

If my attitude of setting the bar high is keeping bads away from my dungeons runs – I’m not exactly sad about it.

People are staying away from dungeons not because of the " elitists " but because of bad pug runs that they refuse to learn from.
Instead of going " oh – i probably suck at this dungeon – my party told me so and kicked me – i better man up and get better at whatever I’m not doing good" all this anti-elitist attitude has made them go " oh you’re telling me what to do – kitten you elitist scum, i’ll play how I want"

And that’s why people aren’t improving.
Elitism – Exclusion from runs or content – the primary selective ppressor is being eliminated – so what’s lelf to force them to change?

There is nothing to improve or get better at. There is no content that requires any particular gear or stat or skill/trait combination. All content is designed to be completed by anyone.

Elitists want people to use particular gear/stat/trait combinations to suit their personal convenience (faster runs).

You are asking for a feature that supports what makes no sense to support – there’s no content that would require what you are asking for.

There’s nothing to get better at?
How about missing half their dodges.
How about Arah being considered hard.
How about wiping 2-3 times at bosses like P1 AC or P2 AC – or even worse – P3 Sorrow’s.

Improving might not mean wearing the gear us elitists want – but it might mean doing the dungeons faster, being able to complete MORE dungeons and doing it with a higher success rate and lower boss wipe rate.
All these would be promoted if people were being forced in a sense to step up their game.

What’s going to start giving them a challenge? Farm events like Scarlet Invasions?

The dungeons right now aren’t even a challenge to a good player – but to the inexperienced they are a terrible trap.
I’ve seen people who not only fail to dodge or use proper game mechanics but who don’t even know the dungeons or what to do.

They NEED to improve. If you think that there’s no need to improve from the bads and newbies – you’re off by far.

Also – what am I asking for?

A chance to be able to set an AP limit to those to join my parties.
A chance to set a class restriction on who joins ( say we have 2 light, 1 heavy, 1 medium and need a guardian) – i should be able to set a filter so that I only get joins by guardians. Or only they could join.
A chance to be able to kick people who failed to take into account the inclusion criteria for my party without queue consequences or other problems.
A chance to play the game and enjoy it on my own terms – far from those who take away my fun and wear away at my patience.

Harper.4173:

There’s nothing to get better at?
How about missing half their dodges.
How about Arah being considered hard.
How about wiping 2-3 times at bosses like P1 AC or P2 AC – or even worse – P3 Sorrow’s.

All those are learned after running a path three-four times, they have nothing to do with the LFG tool and cannot be prevented by it.

Harper.4173:

Improving might not mean wearing the gear us elitists want – but it might mean doing the dungeons faster, being able to complete MORE dungeons and doing it with a higher success rate and lower boss wipe rate.
All these would be promoted if people were being forced in a sense to step up their game.

What you call “improving” means exactly wearing the gear you elitists want. Also being the right class, having the right traits etc.

Harper.4173:

What’s going to start giving them a challenge? Farm events like Scarlet Invasions?

If elitists are allowed to harass the population, sure.

Harper.4173:

The dungeons right now aren’t even a challenge to a good player – but to the inexperienced they are a terrible trap.
I’ve seen people who not only fail to dodge or use proper game mechanics but who don’t even know the dungeons or what to do.

Nobody is supposed to know the dungeons the first time they enter them. The point of dungeons is exploring them, not farming them. Noboody should feel forced to watch spoilers on youtube before they even enter an instance.

Harper.4173:

They NEED to improve. If you think that there’s no need to improve from the bads and newbies – you’re off by far.

Also – what am I asking for?

A chance to be able to set an AP limit to those to join my parties.
A chance to set a class restriction on who joins ( say we have 2 light, 1 heavy, 1 medium and need a guardian) – i should be able to set a filter so that I only get joins by guardians. Or only they could join.
A chance to be able to kick people who failed to take into account the inclusion criteria for my party without queue consequences or other problems.
A chance to play the game and enjoy it on my own terms – far from those who take away my fun and wear away at my patience.

What you are asking for is exactly what I’ve explained is irrelevant to the current intent and design of the game and the LFG tool.

It’s as irrelevant as adding a checkbox to only let people who own Mr. Sparkles into your group. Nobody needs MR. Sparkles, zerker gear, youtube or whatever to complete dungeons in this game.

I’m still seeing a lot of players that don’t understand that “play how you want” is a two way street. Hypocritical posts everywhere.

Aberrant.6749:

I’m still seeing a lot of players that don’t understand that “play how you want” is a two way street. Hypocritical posts everywhere.

“Playing how you want” does not include being abusive towards other players.

Also, it does not mean that your particular playstyle is worth including in the LFG (see Mr. Sparkles groups). Especially if it’s detrimental to the healthy function of the rest of the tool (see gearcheck/APcheck groups).

The #1 priority of the tool is doing the dungeon. Not sitting in LA for 15 minutes waiting for the conformist elite team. It’s about going in asap, possibly wiping for those same 15 minutes, while doing the kittening dungeon.

AntiGw.9367:

Aberrant.6749:

I’m still seeing a lot of players that don’t understand that “play how you want” is a two way street. Hypocritical posts everywhere.

“Playing how you want” does not include being abusive towards other players.

I agree, and if some one is verbally abusive to you then report it. Wanting a speed run is NOT abusive. Heck, from personal experience it’s far more often than not that it’s the casuals that are harassing/verbally abusive to the people that want to speed run and not the other way around.

AntiGw.9367:

Also, it does not mean that your particular playstyle is worth including in the LFG (see Mr. Sparkles groups). Especially if it’s detrimental to the healthy function of the rest of the tool (see gearcheck/APcheck groups).

If a group of players wants to do something like make a video of everyone doing a dung with Mr.Sparkes who are you to tell them they shouldn’t? How is that detrimental to the tool or the game? These sorts of players are telling other people how they should play… while getting upset at the groups that are telling others how they want to play. Hypocrisy. No one is asking for a Mr.Sparkles filter, so nice try with the strawman argument.

A gear/AP wouldn’t be detrimental either. It would just help people who are at the same level of gameplay/time investment/whatever find each other.

AntiGw.9367:

The #1 priority of the tool is doing the dungeon. Not sitting in LA for 15 minutes waiting for the conformist elite team. It’s about going in asap, possibly wiping for those same 15 minutes, while doing the kittening dungeon.

And that’s how you want to play. That’s not how others want to play. Others would rather wait the extra time (they can have gw2 on another monitor or windowed and watch a show in the mean time) vs spending it wiping.

Once again I do help out new players when I have the time and am feeling up to it. When I don’t I don’t. No one should be forced to help new players if they don’t want to, but it’s nice when they do.

These anti-speed run anti-filter arguments are just filled with hypocrisy and poor arguments. Please take half a minute to go think about things not just from your own POV, but the POV of everyone involved. It’ll really help your argument.

If players would read the text to help find other players like them, then we wouldn’t have a need for more filters… and everyone would be playing the way that they wanted to. Alas, this is not the case.

Aberrant.6749:

AntiGw.9367:

Aberrant.6749:

I’m still seeing a lot of players that don’t understand that “play how you want” is a two way street. Hypocritical posts everywhere.

“Playing how you want” does not include being abusive towards other players.

I agree, and if some one is verbally abusive to you then report it. Wanting a speed run is NOT abusive. Heck, from personal experience it’s far more often than not that it’s the casuals that are harassing/verbally abusive to the people that want to speed run and not the other way around.

AntiGw.9367:

Also, it does not mean that your particular playstyle is worth including in the LFG (see Mr. Sparkles groups). Especially if it’s detrimental to the healthy function of the rest of the tool (see gearcheck/APcheck groups).

If a group of players wants to do something like make a video of everyone doing a dung with Mr.Sparkes who are you to tell them they shouldn’t? How is that detrimental to the tool or the game? These sorts of players are telling other people how they should play… while getting upset at the groups that are telling others how they want to play. Hypocrisy. No one is asking for a Mr.Sparkles filter, so nice try with the strawman argument.

A gear/AP wouldn’t be detrimental either. It would just help people who are at the same level of gameplay/time investment/whatever find each other.

AntiGw.9367:

The #1 priority of the tool is doing the dungeon. Not sitting in LA for 15 minutes waiting for the conformist elite team. It’s about going in asap, possibly wiping for those same 15 minutes, while doing the kittening dungeon.

And that’s how you want to play. That’s not how others want to play. Others would rather wait the extra time (they can have gw2 on another monitor or windowed and watch a show in the mean time) vs spending it wiping.

Once again I do help out new players when I have the time and am feeling up to it. When I don’t I don’t. No one should be forced to help new players if they don’t want to, but it’s nice when they do.

These anti-speed run anti-filter arguments are just filled with hypocrisy and poor arguments. Please take half a minute to go think about things not just from your own POV, but the POV of everyone involved. It’ll really help your argument.

If players would read the text to help find other players like them, then we wouldn’t have a need for more filters… and everyone would be playing the way that they wanted to. Alas, this is not the case.

Abusive behavior is not limited to verbal abuse.

Wanting to make a video of Mr. Sparkles run does not warrant adding a LFG checkbox that lets you find people who also want it.

Noone is asking for a Mr. Sparkles filter, but that doesn’t mean that your speed run groups are more important than a Mr. Sparkle group. You don’t get a filter either, because neither your speed runs or Mr. Sparkle runs contribute something of value to the community at which this particular tool is targeted. You can still use the tool for either, but you won’t get an interface checkbox that supports it.

(in practice, you might actually get some checkbox after the devs finish gathering usage data and such)

AntiGw.9367:

Abusive behavior is not limited to verbal abuse.

Indeed, but it doesn’t include me not wanting to play with other players that don’t have the same goal (to complete a dung in a smoothly and quickly). Something like booting a player at the end of a dung would be abuse though.

AntiGw.9367:

Wanting to make a video of Mr. Sparkles run does not warrant adding a LFG checkbox that lets you find people who also want it.

Noone is asking for a Mr. Sparkles filter, but that doesn’t mean that your speed run groups are more important than a Mr. Sparkle group. You don’t get a filter either, because neither your speed runs or Mr. Sparkle runs contribute something of value to the community at which this particular tool is targeted. You can still use the tool for either, but you won’t get an interface checkbox that supports it.

(in practice, you might actually get some checkbox after the devs finish gathering usage data and such)

Yes it’s more important as there are more consequences to having an inexperienced, underleveled person in greens in your party. You would need to use different strategies, take time to explain everything, take more time doing the dung (meaning you would need to set aside more time), etc. The other is just a visual pet which has no effect on the gameplay what so ever. The strawman sparkles argument is very weak and isn’t equivalent to wanting more filters for other reasons. You can keep bringing it up, but that doesn’t make it any more valid.

Speed runs do contribute to the community. We get more items etc. which lowers the price on everything we find (good for casuals). If everyone just did slow casual runs, prices would be higher because the supply would be lower.

Just look at COF/HOTW for example. Those is a huge ectoplam resource (turn in 30 tokens for a rare and salvage =‘s 2 rares per path). Without people speed running it the prices would be higher because the overall supply would be lower. Look at the new inscriptions as well. By speed running multiple dungeons and getting tokens, turning them in for soldier/rabid/etc. items then salvaging them for inscriptions people have dropped those down in price rather quickly. This helps make crafting to 500 less expensive (by using those inscriptions Vs. the more expensive t6 mat based inscriptions). This means that the casual community needs to acquire less gold, spend less time, and their slower runs aren’t as detrimental to their progress so they can play how they want in the game.

There are a sizeable group of players that just want smooth runs. It helps that community play how they wish.

I understand you don’t want to alienate the casual community, but if you forced everyone to go together regardless of skill you would lose the non-casual community. I enjoy both types of play and don’t want to see either harmed. The best way that this can be achieved is for more filters to be added so that the casuals don’t get booted (causes resentment) and both communities can exist. There would be nothing stopping the causals from playing together, and nothing stopping me from going to help teach them when I wanted to. You seem to be far more of the mind to just force people to help each other… which isn’t good.

The ONLY community that would be harmed by this would be the ones that want to run with the speed runners, but aren’t geared/experienced enough to do so yet. Basically party crashers. They are a community that is already hurting another community.

The MAIN issue behind all of this is that hardly anyone one reads the text. This is why people are asking for more filters.

Paponzi.1637:

Rozbuska.5263:

-Level restriction

No, please

- Class restriction

No, please

- Gear rarity and stat type restriction

No, please

- Let party creator see players gear and build (like in SPvP)

No, please

A giant NOPE.

level restriction: NO pointless the lfg already doesn’t let you join any above your level.
class restriction: YES I can keep all those pesky rangers / necros out of my party.
gear rarity and stuff: YES if you’re under geared why should I carry you ? (gear score at least)
let party owner see gear and build: YES same as above really it’s kinda the same thing.

Shiren.9532:

Corvindi.5734:

I’m glad there finally is a dungeon finder, but since I’ve never done a single dungeon I’m now too shy to use it. Maybe eventually I will try it anyway. I wouldn’t worry if there were roles, I’ve always been a good healer, but since there aren’t, I’m afraid I’ll screw up big time and wipe us all if I just jump into the lowest level dungeon and go. Of course that is what youtube videos are for, I’m sure I can look some up before I give it a try.

Don’t be put off. A lot of the people in this thread (and the general dungeon community )just have bad attitudes when it comes to pugging.

…….[removed to save space]……..

Let your party know you are new, most dungeon paths have been trivialised by AI and mechanics exploits, if your party knows what to do and has decent builds you can auto attack your way through a lot of dungeon content.

Pictures an auto-attacking gs warrior through AC

Speed runner I am not, elite/elitist I am not, but this is really bad advise to give to newbies. The game gave us 5 weapon skills for a reason. I would think using everything at your disposal is very basic in terms of knowing and enjoying your game. Even if you can auto-attack through something, why would you do so when the minimal effort of pressing a different button will yield so much better results? And where is the fun in auto-attacking anyway?

Corvindi, do go ahead and try dungeons, they are very good fun. Of course tell ppl you are new and ask them to explain to you what to do before they do it. A video would help but if its not your cup of tea, try to start from the easier dungeons and do story first. You can also find parties that specifically say “newbies welcome”, those are a better bet.
Dungeons are different to open world, even if only in some cases because the space is limited, but they are not that hard if ppl listen and work together. Also, dungeon groups are sometimes good source of advise on builds, traits, skills and other tactics, simply because no one in the open world has time or incentive to discuss these things while zerg wp’ing from one boss to the other.

On topic, the hypocrisy in this thread is mind numbing.

I’m very happy with the LFG tool. I get groups almost instantly, which is also the reason why it looks so empty a lot of the time. It just works so well.

Yesterday did 5 dungeons in the span of 2 hours. No waiting around. Loved it.

Latinkuro.9420:

Paponzi.1637:

Rozbuska.5263:

-Level restriction

No, please

- Class restriction

No, please

- Gear rarity and stat type restriction

No, please

- Let party creator see players gear and build (like in SPvP)

No, please

A giant NOPE.

level restriction: NO pointless the lfg already doesn’t let you join any above your level.
class restriction: YES I can keep all those pesky rangers / necros out of my party.
gear rarity and stuff: YES if you’re under geared why should I carry you ? (gear score at least)
let party owner see gear and build: YES same as above really it’s kinda the same thing.

Because at some point you were the guy who was under geared. You were the guy who wanted to learn the paths. You were the guy that this was your first time through it.

If you want to restrict, include it in your comment. If you are a newb and your first time, include it in your comment. If you want to watch the cut scenes, include it in your comment.

The LFG tool should be for everyone, not just a means to form hyper elite dungeon sweeping parties of extraordinary magnitude (sorry, have A Fist Full of Yen on the brain). A newcomer should not feel unwanted because he isn’t already an expert in this dungeon or his profession as well as his stat choices. Not everyone can buy top gear right away.

Meh, you don’t really need a checkbox… I usually have atleast 2 friends in my party and we just party kick anyone that doesn’t link zerker gear ( rare exceptions of course) or has less than 4k achievement points.

Usually takes like 5 min longer to find a party, but def worth it for the extra smooth runs….. I go farm some herbs etc while waiting so its no big deal.

Aurust.8961:

Meh, you don’t really need a checkbox… I usually have atleast 2 friends in my party and we just party kick anyone that doesn’t link zerker gear ( rare exceptions of course) or has less than 4k achievement points.

Do you promote zerk only parties or do you just assume everyone is a munchkin like you?
In case of the former, you have the right to do that. In case of the latter, you’re a kitten. Just saying.

To be honest, my experiences with the tool over the last 2 days have been all but pleasant. I’ve been running AC for months now, saving up for my legendary, but the groups that were made by the LFG website were of such much better quality than what we get now.

And before you call me an elitist, I spent over 2 hours for path 1 and 2 with “experienced speed groups” in there yesterday, being mister nice guy, desperately trying to explain simple basic strategies and common problems.

In the end some just didn’t understand me, or didn’t bother to try. I’ve always been a fervent opposer of level or class discrimination in dungeons, but the arrogant, unwilling to adapt players that don’t even understand the most basic principles of their profession, which I’ve been bunched up with the last couple of days have made it really hard for me to stand by my principles.

Evans.6347:

To be honest, my experiences with the tool over the last 2 days have been all but pleasant. I’ve been running AC for months now, saving up for my legendary, but the groups that were made by the LFG website were of such much better quality than what we get now.

And before you call me an elitist, I spent over 2 hours for path 1 and 2 with “experienced speed groups” in there yesterday, being mister nice guy, desperately trying to explain simple basic strategies and common problems.

In the end some just didn’t understand me, or didn’t bother to try. I’ve always been a fervent opposer of level or class discrimination in dungeons, but the arrogant, unwilling to adapt players that don’t even understand the most basic principles of their profession, which I’ve been bunched up with the last couple of days have made it really hard for me to stand by my principles.

If you promoted your group as “experienced speed clear” you have a right to report those people as griefers imho.

I didn’t promote anything, I only joined said groups.
The irony of it all is that the founders of these groups, who actually promote said speedclearing, have no clue what to do. In a couple of cases they even leave the group kicking everyone out of the instance.

marnick.4305:

Evans.6347:

To be honest, my experiences with the tool over the last 2 days have been all but pleasant. I’ve been running AC for months now, saving up for my legendary, but the groups that were made by the LFG website were of such much better quality than what we get now.

And before you call me an elitist, I spent over 2 hours for path 1 and 2 with “experienced speed groups” in there yesterday, being mister nice guy, desperately trying to explain simple basic strategies and common problems.

In the end some just didn’t understand me, or didn’t bother to try. I’ve always been a fervent opposer of level or class discrimination in dungeons, but the arrogant, unwilling to adapt players that don’t even understand the most basic principles of their profession, which I’ve been bunched up with the last couple of days have made it really hard for me to stand by my principles.

If you promoted your group as “experienced speed clear” you have a right to report those people as griefers imho.

I would agree if people joined a group asking for experienced/speed and didn’t have a clue. However people just don’t read the LFG tool and I don’t think that most of them intend any harm. That’s one of the reasons why more filters would help the overall situation.

Evans.6347:

I didn’t promote anything, I only joined said groups.
The irony of it all is that the founders of these groups, who actually promote said speedclearing, have no clue what to do. In a couple of cases they even leave the group kicking everyone out of the instance.

While AP/Gear is the best tool we have it’s not perfect. They might also have been new people trying to get experienced people to come and help/leech off of them under the guise of being a speedy group. A lot of things could have gone on there : /

AntiGw.9367:

Aberrant.6749:

I’m still seeing a lot of players that don’t understand that “play how you want” is a two way street. Hypocritical posts everywhere.

“Playing how you want” does not include being abusive towards other players.

Also, it does not mean that your particular playstyle is worth including in the LFG (see Mr. Sparkles groups). Especially if it’s detrimental to the healthy function of the rest of the tool (see gearcheck/APcheck groups).

The #1 priority of the tool is doing the dungeon. Not sitting in LA for 15 minutes waiting for the conformist elite team. It’s about going in asap, possibly wiping for those same 15 minutes, while doing the kittening dungeon.

Choosing to dissociate myself from them does not i’m being abusive in any way.
That’s what you fail to understand. The fact that I want to have nothing to do with certain players does not mean I’m abusing them.

I like how you know what the point of the dungeons is. News flash – each aspect of the game has different meanings for those who play.
While for you and others like you the dungeons are there to explore and go " oh gasp a dungeon troll in AC – how exciting" the same dungeons are used by the majority of the player base to farm. Yes farm.
So don’t go around saying things that are based only on your ideas.

Missing dodges and wiping at bosses is not learned through a couple of runs if there’s no incentive to learn. And with the current system there isn’t and won’t be.

Also regarding the 15 minutes wait vs 15 minutes wipe. If I had to choose I’d rather wait for the right team and the right people rather than wing it with sub-par teammates. Why ? because wiping and watching people fail at things that I consider simple annoys me and I’d rather spare myself the experience. And I’d rather spare them the experience of being kicked and replaced.

So yes- give us filters because without them I feel there’s no going around kicking and generating tension in an already tense situation.

Evans.6347:

To be honest, my experiences with the tool over the last 2 days have been all but pleasant. I’ve been running AC for months now, saving up for my legendary, but the groups that were made by the LFG website were of such much better quality than what we get now.

And before you call me an elitist, I spent over 2 hours for path 1 and 2 with “experienced speed groups” in there yesterday, being mister nice guy, desperately trying to explain simple basic strategies and common problems.

In the end some just didn’t understand me, or didn’t bother to try. I’ve always been a fervent opposer of level or class discrimination in dungeons, but the arrogant, unwilling to adapt players that don’t even understand the most basic principles of their profession, which I’ve been bunched up with the last couple of days have made it really hard for me to stand by my principles.

The way I deal with these groups is that whenever I start a dungeon I’m the instance owner.
I’ve had dozens of groups like these – I tell them how to improve their game – get the usual " gtfo i’ll play how I want ". I’ll wait – not say anything then at the end – before the boss i remind them that they should improve their game and leave the instance.
Oddly enough it does give a feeling of satisfaction.

Harper.4173:

Evans.6347:

To be honest, my experiences with the tool over the last 2 days have been all but pleasant. I’ve been running AC for months now, saving up for my legendary, but the groups that were made by the LFG website were of such much better quality than what we get now.

And before you call me an elitist, I spent over 2 hours for path 1 and 2 with “experienced speed groups” in there yesterday, being mister nice guy, desperately trying to explain simple basic strategies and common problems.

In the end some just didn’t understand me, or didn’t bother to try. I’ve always been a fervent opposer of level or class discrimination in dungeons, but the arrogant, unwilling to adapt players that don’t even understand the most basic principles of their profession, which I’ve been bunched up with the last couple of days have made it really hard for me to stand by my principles.

The way I deal with these groups is that whenever I start a dungeon I’m the instance owner.
I’ve had dozens of groups like these – I tell them how to improve their game – get the usual " gtfo i’ll play how I want ". I’ll wait – not say anything then at the end – before the boss i remind them that they should improve their game and leave the instance.
Oddly enough it does give a feeling of satisfaction.

That’s griefing. You’re doing it just to be mean to other players. Had you left early on, then whatever that’s your choice. Waiting until the last boss then leaving… that’s not cool.

Aberrant.6749:

That’s griefing. You’re doing it just to be mean to other players. Had you left early on, then whatever that’s your choice. Waiting until the last boss then leaving… that’s not cool.

That’s not a griefing. He “plays how we wants” just like those scrubs.

Aberrant.6749:

marnick.4305:

Evans.6347:

To be honest, my experiences with the tool over the last 2 days have been all but pleasant. I’ve been running AC for months now, saving up for my legendary, but the groups that were made by the LFG website were of such much better quality than what we get now.

And before you call me an elitist, I spent over 2 hours for path 1 and 2 with “experienced speed groups” in there yesterday, being mister nice guy, desperately trying to explain simple basic strategies and common problems.

In the end some just didn’t understand me, or didn’t bother to try. I’ve always been a fervent opposer of level or class discrimination in dungeons, but the arrogant, unwilling to adapt players that don’t even understand the most basic principles of their profession, which I’ve been bunched up with the last couple of days have made it really hard for me to stand by my principles.

If you promoted your group as “experienced speed clear” you have a right to report those people as griefers imho.

I would agree if people joined a group asking for experienced/speed and didn’t have a clue. However people just don’t read the LFG tool and I don’t think that most of them intend any harm. That’s one of the reasons why more filters would help the overall situation.

Evans.6347:

I didn’t promote anything, I only joined said groups.
The irony of it all is that the founders of these groups, who actually promote said speedclearing, have no clue what to do. In a couple of cases they even leave the group kicking everyone out of the instance.

While AP/Gear is the best tool we have it’s not perfect. They might also have been new people trying to get experienced people to come and help/leech off of them under the guise of being a speedy group. A lot of things could have gone on there : /

I really have no problem with people trying to learn. But they should be honest about it and be constructive. If they want to learn, they should listen to the “veterans” instead of insisting of doing it their way. Have you ever tried doing the ghost eater with 3 rangers that don’t know (or care) they can put their pet on passive? It grows really old after 30 minutes of being the old nag trying to teach a fundamental skill. Then when you eventually get the whole bunch working together, being rather proud of accomplishing that, you still have to quit because over 3 sprung traps we don’t even have enough dps to get half the bar down. It’s really disappointing, not only for me but also for the people who are trying to learn.

On the other hand I’ve had fun groups with low level newbies who actually ended up carrying some “experienced” lv80’s through the dungeon too. It does work both ways.

The problem with the tool, imho, is that it is open to all the scrubs who just don’t give a rat’s bottom about working together. When we only had the website, it at least meant a sliver of commitment and seriousness to actually look up the site and search for a group.

Wow…

This thread alone shows the degredation of the Elitist community is now WORSE that WoW’s

AP is NOT an indicator of skill when half the AP is from time gated/missable content AND every Achievement Point can be farmed from a Dulfy guide, what you’re looking for in reading comprehension!

GEAR? This isn’t WoW! If it was there would be Item Level

Evans.6347:

I really have no problem with people trying to learn. But they should be honest about it and be constructive. If they want to learn, they should listen to the “veterans” instead of insisting of doing it their way. Have you ever tried doing the ghost eater with 3 rangers that don’t know (or care) they can put their pet on passive? It grows really old after 30 minutes of being the old nag trying to teach a fundamental skill. Then when you eventually get the whole bunch working together, being rather proud of accomplishing that, you still have to quit because over 3 sprung traps we don’t even have enough dps to get half the bar down. It’s really disappointing, not only for me but also for the people who are trying to learn.

On the other hand I’ve had fun groups with low level newbies who actually ended up carrying some “experienced” lv80’s through the dungeon too. It does work both ways.

The problem with the tool, imho, is that it is open to all the scrubs who just don’t give a rat’s bottom about working together. When we only had the website, it at least meant a sliver of commitment and seriousness to actually look up the site and search for a group.

I would agree with all of that. I don’t have anything against the players that just don’t care and refuse to listen… but do I want them in my party? Kitten no. If they want to just go and learn it for themselves by trial and error then that’s totally fine with me. Just as long as I’m not blindly shoved into a party with them.

There are good new players and bad “experienced” players, but more often than not though the ones with good gear and AP are your best indications. That’s why I would like to see filters/icons for speed or casual run/let me decide who can join before they enter/let me decide if I want to merge/ etc.

I think the one universal thing that everyone would agree on though… would be we need to be able to put in a LFG for the path that we are doing. I will be highly disappointed if at the VERY least that’s not added in.

Lonesamurai.4852:

Wow…

This thread alone shows the degredation of the Elitist community is now WORSE that WoW’s

AP is NOT an indicator of skill when half the AP is from time gated/missable content AND every Achievement Point can be farmed from a Dulfy guide, what you’re looking for in reading comprehension!

GEAR? This isn’t WoW! If it was there would be Item Level

IMO it just shows the massive hypocrisy of the casuals who insist that they need to play with whoever they chose regardless of what the other 4 people want.

AP is an indication as far as how long you’ve plaid (goes towards experience). No it’s not perfect though.

Gear matters. Sorry, but it does. So do builds. Some strats will not work if you have under geared randomly/poorly traited people in your group.

Group content designed right means you need a team, not just warm bodies.

LFG tool is simply amazing. I’d prefer ANet not to add any more filter option. People who wants to filter casual players can go somewhere else to find their kind of players but for average players it is perfect.

To give an example, I could never find lvl1 fractal group. Without LFG tool I’d be waiting hours even days to find a group. With LFG, I was able to find a group in less than a minute during morning server time and not only that we did level 1 to 3 at stretch without any problem. People were so helpful and understanding. I was also able to find story mode dungeon group who did not curse for not skipping cutscene.

LFG tool is designed for such players and should be kept as it is. One of the reasons I quit GW2 was because of difficulty in finding casual players to do contents with. Now I can stick around because of LFG tool

SamSerious.9624:

LFG tool is simply amazing. I’d prefer ANet not to add any more filter option. People who wants to filter casual players can go somewhere else to find their kind of players but for average players it is perfect.

To give an example, I could never find lvl1 fractal group. Without LFG tool I’d be waiting hours even days to find a group. With LFG, I was able to find a group in less than a minute during morning server time and not only that we did level 1 to 3 at stretch without any problem. People were so helpful and understanding. I was also able to find story mode dungeon group who did not curse for not skipping cutscene.

LFG tool is designed for such players and should be kept as it is. One of the reasons I quit GW2 was because of difficulty in finding casual players to do contents with. Now I can stick around because of LFG tool

How does pooling casuals with casuals contradict your utopian vision?

haviz.1340:

SamSerious.9624:

LFG tool is simply amazing. I’d prefer ANet not to add any more filter option. People who wants to filter casual players can go somewhere else to find their kind of players but for average players it is perfect.

To give an example, I could never find lvl1 fractal group. Without LFG tool I’d be waiting hours even days to find a group. With LFG, I was able to find a group in less than a minute during morning server time and not only that we did level 1 to 3 at stretch without any problem. People were so helpful and understanding. I was also able to find story mode dungeon group who did not curse for not skipping cutscene.

LFG tool is designed for such players and should be kept as it is. One of the reasons I quit GW2 was because of difficulty in finding casual players to do contents with. Now I can stick around because of LFG tool

How does pooling casuals with casuals contradict your utopian vision?

Because, on the internet, unless strictly moderated, such tools become as good as the worst part of the community. WoW went downhill due to gearscore and other elitist nonsense. Many casuals fled to this game because the community here is intended to be friendly. I hope the worst and the scrub of the internet is handled on the LFG tool. I’m talking about elitists, obviously, those who have no place in this game unless they respect the rights of the casuals.