Guild Wars 2

Dave.1905:

Vayne.8563:

Possibly true some of the time but not all of time. Again, Anet has the metrics, we do not. Anything we say is just our observations. I’m pretty sure if it was madly popular Anet wouldnt’ have done it.

If they’re going to invest the time to create a rotation for minigames and promote the rotation to their fanbase, you’d think they would invest the time to actually fix some of the games while they’re at it. I get that developing custom arenas would take a larger amount of time than they might want to spend on it, but atleast fix the kitten lobbing problem

I think most other mini games proved more popular than Keg Brawl and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was eventually switched out of the rotation…and then brought back at another time.

Vayne.8563:

They’re not making people play Keg Brawl. They’re moving Keg Brawl to a rotation for people who do like it. They could have just taken it out of the game completely. They’re giving it a chance. If enough people like it, they’ll keep it.

The point is, you have an agenda, because you love the game. But I don’t think that many people do.

There are many ways to get dailies and those who like keg brawl will be able to get one of their dailies every four days that way. That’s all. It’s just an end to an achievement.

But it will make it harder for people to just go and farm the achievements. I don’t see how you can plausibly deny that.

Lol, wow. Maybe because you’re not actually looking, or you’re just saying things after running out of things to say?

You’re saying the people who like Keg Brawl are in the extreme minority, enough so that ArenaNet could’ve just removed the game (which is also really really stupid so I’m not sure why you said it), but there’s enough of them there to keep the entire GW2 player base, people who’ve been given reward after reward and many incentives to go and gather achievement points or dailies in order to progress, at bay across the entire mini game?

Never mind the opportunity for farmers to corrupt those who would otherwise play an ordinary game of Keg brawl. What you just said literally made zero sense. And no, they’re not forcing them to play Keg Brawl, but they’re making it so they can’t play the game because of Keg Brawl, a game they don’t like in the first place. How is this a good thing for those players? "Sorry that you liked Southsun Survival, but you can’t play right now because Keg Brawl, which according to our mighty metrics has an astonishingly low population in comparison, is active right now. Please come back in 24/48/72 hours.

You also just said they’re moving Keg Brawl to a rotation for those that do like it, but have already said that this update does in-fact disadvantage those players that like to play Keg Brawl. Because seriously, why is saying “Sorry you like Keg brawl, but you won’t be able to play for 75% of the time due to this rotation we just put in.” good for people who like Keg Brawl? Oh yeah, because it’s now focusing all the other people who played Keg brawl for ulterior motives than enjoying it, into a strict time frame! Which should definitely turn out well given Keg Brawl’s history of being exploited for ulterior motives than enjoyment of the game.

Serelisk.6573:

Vayne.8563:

They’re not making people play Keg Brawl. They’re moving Keg Brawl to a rotation for people who do like it. They could have just taken it out of the game completely. They’re giving it a chance. If enough people like it, they’ll keep it.

The point is, you have an agenda, because you love the game. But I don’t think that many people do.

There are many ways to get dailies and those who like keg brawl will be able to get one of their dailies every four days that way. That’s all. It’s just an end to an achievement.

But it will make it harder for people to just go and farm the achievements. I don’t see how you can plausibly deny that.

Lol, wow. Maybe because you’re not actually looking, or you’re just saying things after running out of things to say?

You’re saying the people who like Keg Brawl are in the extreme minority, enough so that ArenaNet could’ve just removed the game (which is also really really stupid so I’m not sure why you said it), but there’s enough of them there to keep the entire GW2 player base, people who’ve been given reward after reward and many incentives to go and gather achievement points or dailies in order to progress, at bay across the entire mini game?

Never mind the opportunity for farmers to corrupt those who would otherwise play an ordinary game of Keg brawl. What you just said literally made zero sense. And no, they’re not forcing them to play Keg Brawl, but they’re making it so they can’t play the game because of Keg Brawl, a game they don’t like in the first place. How is this a good thing for those players? "Sorry that you liked Southsun Survival, but you can’t play right now because Keg Brawl, which according to our mighty metrics has an astonishingly low population in comparison, is active right now. Please come back in 24/48/72 hours.

You also just said they’re moving Keg Brawl to a rotation for those that do like it, but have already said that this update does in-fact disadvantage those players that like to play Keg Brawl. Because seriously, why is saying “Sorry you like Keg brawl, but you won’t be able to play for 75% of the time due to this rotation we just put in.” good for people who like Keg Brawl? Oh yeah, because it’s now focusing all the other people who played Keg brawl for ulterior motives than enjoying it, into a strict time frame! Which should definitely turn out well given Keg Brawl’s history of being exploited for ulterior motives than enjoyment of the game.

Look, you’re assuming everyone needs to go for every single achievement point. I’m not sure most people do that. I don’t go for every one. I ignore the WvW achievement points on most days. WvW people might ignore the dungeon or fractal dailies.

The minigame achievements are there for people who like minigames. There are plenty of them….but I’m not sure they’re in the majority in and of themselves. Now of the people who like minigames, only a certain percentage like Keg Brawl. I know this because I like minigames, but I generally have given up on Keg Brawl. Sure if it was fixed it might be better…but it might not. There’s no way to know how people will react IF it’s fixed.

Anet is trying stuff, because that’s what they do. They try stuff. They’re making a rotation and during that time, they’ll be able to track what games are and aren’t being played. A month of that and they’ll have an idea and switch some games out of the rotation. I wouldn’t be surprised if Keg Brawl was one of those games.

The bottom line is, Anet is doing something here that is a process, not an end goal. They’re checking to see how it works and if it doesn’t work they’ll move on from there.

But I’m pretty sure Keg Brawl just wasn’t that popular when they did this.

Vayne.8563:

They could have just taken it out of the game completely. They’re giving it a chance. If enough people like it, they’ll keep it.

So because something isn’t as popular or successful as Anet intended they should completely remove it? That goes into a whole other argument.. it should NOT be removed completely after all the time and effort that went into developing it.

What chance are they giving it? I don’t get how it’s a privilege to be put on this rotation when it was previously a permanent addition to the game.

It just blows my mind why they would even think about removing it, even if this is just speculation on your part. What did they expect to get out of it? Is this goal somehow not met? Why remove it instead of trying to fix it?

Vayne.8563:

But it will make it harder for people to just go and farm the achievements. I don’t see how you can plausibly deny that.

Look at what I posted before, the majority of newcomers and people who have played before will just farm everything because farmers are the majority in the game. Majority rules, unless you want to be the guy who runs to their spots outside of the fence and grabs their keg and throws it away. Especially with the addition of loot bags, players are more discouraged than ever to actually play the game and refrain from farming and lobbing. If you’re an achievement minded or loot minded player and couldn’t give less of a kitten about the mini game, it makes no sense to sit there and play full games without exploiting farms or lobs. It’s faster to lob your way to the end of the game to get your daily and the loot bag, or to farm your way to an easy 100+ achievement points. Based on my experience playing Keg Brawl, there are not too many players who actually played KB when it was permanent for the enjoyment and entertainment of it; without being focused on achievements. What will somehow make the player base in the ‘rotation version KB’ care about the mini game more than the rewards?

Dave.1905:

Vayne.8563:

They could have just taken it out of the game completely. They’re giving it a chance. If enough people like it, they’ll keep it.

So because something isn’t as popular or successful as Anet intended they should completely remove it? That goes into a whole other argument.. it should NOT be removed completely after all the time and effort that went into developing it.

What chance are they giving it? I don’t get how it’s a privilege to be put on this rotation when it was previously a permanent addition to the game.

It just blows my mind why they would even think about removing it, even if this is just speculation on your part. What did they expect to get out of it? Is this goal somehow not met? Why remove it instead of trying to fix it?

Vayne.8563:

But it will make it harder for people to just go and farm the achievements. I don’t see how you can plausibly deny that.

Look at what I posted before, the majority of newcomers and people who have played before will just farm everything because farmers are the majority in the game. Majority rules, unless you want to be the guy who runs to their spots outside of the fence and grabs their keg and throws it away. Especially with the addition of loot bags, players are more discouraged than ever to actually play the game and refrain from farming and lobbing. If you’re an achievement minded or loot minded player and couldn’t give less of a kitten about the mini game, it makes no sense to sit there and play full games without exploiting farms or lobs. It’s faster to lob your way to the end of the game to get your daily and the loot bag, or to farm your way to an easy 100+ achievement points. Based on my experience playing Keg Brawl, there are not too many players who actually played KB when it was permanent for the enjoyment and entertainment of it; without being focused on achievements. What will somehow make the player base in the ‘rotation version KB’ care about the mini game more than the rewards?

I disagree quite strongly that farmers are the majority of the game. I think farmers are a minority in the game. It seems like there’s a lot of them because they all congregate in the most lucrative place to congregate.

No, I don’t think most people who play this game consider themselves farmers. Farming is something done by a percentage of people who are dedicated to making money. Most players I’ve run into are far more casual about it.

Sorry I should have clarified, ‘the game’ in the context of the post was referring to Keg Brawl

So now at the end of the day, according to you Vayne, this daily mini game rotation likely only exists to gauge the current playability of all the mini games. How many people will go and play them on the day they’re scheduled. Mind you, it’s not what they do, just that they go play them, so they can cycle mini games out for being unpopular, regardless of why that is?

There’s literally nothing good about this.

Just wish there was more people who’re as upset as I am because I’ve got less reason to play this game now and there’s nothing I can do about it. :/

I dont really like mini games much, but occasionally i’d pop in one if im bored.

Now if they want to rotate these and i try to enter and cannot, i wont wait 3-4 days to do it…i’ll just never do them again.

Is that what Anet wanted players to just drop mini games completely..

Serelisk.6573:

So now at the end of the day, according to you Vayne, this daily mini game rotation likely only exists to gauge the current playability of all the mini games. How many people will go and play them on the day they’re scheduled. Mind you, it’s not what they do, just that they go play them, so they can cycle mini games out for being unpopular, regardless of why that is?

There’s literally nothing good about this.

I disagree. Anet does things by iteration. They’ve said it themselves many times. I believe they don’t always know how good or popular something will be, but they try it anyway. Did they expect the super adventure box to be massively popular? Not according to them.

They know mini games are popular in general…but they all know too many mini games means splitting the minigame pie too thinly. This is simply logic. I don’t know how anyone can refute that.

So they made a rotation..but left it at one a day. So people that like mini games aren’t standing in a racing arena, waiting for someone to show up, the way I often have in Keg Brawl.

At the end of the day you have an opinion, and I have an opinion. Only Anet knows how popular keg brawl actually is.

Dante.1508:

I dont really like mini games much, but occasionally i’d pop in one if im bored.

Now if they want to rotate these and i try to enter and cannot, i wont wait 3-4 days to do it…i’ll just never do them again.

Is that what Anet wanted players to just drop mini games completely..

Right because you’re completely representative of the community.

I’ve now done two minigames in two days from the daily. As far as I can tell, the minigames are doing well.

Serelisk.6573:

Just wish there was more people who’re as upset as I am because I’ve got less reason to play this game now and there’s nothing I can do about it. :/

This is my point…there probably are people as upset as you, but Keg Brawl in and of itself was never a major selling point of this game for most people. And I’m sure there are Keg Brawl fans out there, but there are also people who hate what it became…and I’m one of them.

At least this way you’ll have kegbrawl for one day out of four. But I’m surprised that people are staying in this game just or mostly for keg brawl. And I’m equally surprised people who like Keg Brawl don’t like some of the other minigames either.

Holy kitten, you just ignored pretty much every point I’ve made in this thread.

Again, mini games is not a demographic, so if you’re going to debate that point, please stop arguing like there’s a sharp divide between people who like mini games and who don’t like mini games, and those are the only people we have to gauge the popularity and potentially, unsubstantiated player dilution you keep alluding to. The, and I quote, “mini game pie”.

Furthermore, there is no evidence that you can even observe that even remotely indicates that player dilution is a problem in this game according to your argument, and that it will cause some of these mini games to become unplayable. Your experience with Keg Brawl is no indication whatsoever of player dilution. It was the only kitten mini game in GW2 for the entire lifetime of this game up until his point. And I’ve pointed out many times over that this is way more than likely due to the glaring issues in the game, from lobbing, to the tons of aggravating bugs and exploits that make the game unplayable to many people as well as the zero support its gotten since launch. This is something you even agreed on. So why do you keep trying to support the player dilution bs with your experience of Keg Brawl. You’re not making sense.

A fitting analogy would be when SPvP had little dev support and lack of tools to be a fulfilling PvP format or eSports scene. It would be like saying that there isn’t enough players in the game to support a healthy scene for both WvW and SPvP, and WvW was siphoning all the Pvp players. So instead of improving SPvP, we’re going to amke it so WvW is only available for 50% of the time so all those players would go to SPvP. nevermind if WvW players don’t like SPvP because they’re two entirely different game types with the vague premise of player versus player. Notice how ridiculous this sounds now after they added automated tournaments, custom arenas, leader boards, more maps, live streams and state of the games every week, more incentives for players to play SPvP, partnerships with other media sites and paid tournaments… Yeah, pretty weird how people will play a game once it’s actually interesting to play.

Like, kitten dude, please understand the argument and quit saying “you don’t have the numbers”. It doesn’t matter. You have an unsubstantiated premise for somehow believing that more people in a mini game will mean that the exploiters will go away. Which makes zero sense considering they’re doing nothing to hinder the farmers but they’re now encouraging them to do it because of the time restriction.

And you failed to answer my question, I don’t care about iteration, once upon a time they laid out and goal and explained what that was to their player base. What they’re doing now has no clear goal or intent, except to limit the players from playing how they want.

If they wanted the mini games to be played more, then why have they still not put a single itty bit of advertisement for them on their social media? Why do they not provide tools or modes of competitive progression to make players invested in it (leader boards)? Why do they not make mini game related rewards that consolidate players investment in the mini game? They could just be cosmetic themed content, that can’t be that hard to produce. Oh, what’s that? Because that would mean they’re spending dev time on something that they don’t think will be a sound use of resources. Then why the kitten are they doing this “iterative process” in the first place? Just for lulz? To kitten me off?

Vayne, you’re at the point where your arguments are running into themselves in this desperate act of trying to justify what is an unexplained action by ArenaNet that causes far more harm than it potentially causes good. It doesn’t even sound like you liked Keg Brawl, nor have you responded to any of the points I made about ways to improve the issue as a player instead of ArenaNet restricting the way you want to play the game. And if you say that garbage about numbers one more time, I might actually cry, because it hurts that you will repeatedly use what essentially boils down to “ArenaNet’s decisions are infallible because they are ArenaNet”

Serelisk.6573:

Holy kitten, you just ignored pretty much every point I’ve made in this thread.

Again, mini games is not a demographic, so if you’re going to debate that point, please stop arguing like there’s a sharp divide between people who like mini games and who don’t like mini games, and those are the only people we have to gauge the popularity and potentially, unsubstantiated player dilution you keep alluding to. The, and I quote, “mini game pie”.

snip

nevermind if WvW players don’t like SPvP because they’re two entirely different game types with the vague premise of player versus player. Notice how ridiculous this sounds now after they added automated tournaments, custom arenas, leader boards, more maps, live streams and state of the games every week, more incentives for players to play SPvP, partnerships with other media sites and paid tournaments… Yeah, pretty weird how people will play a game once it’s actually interesting to play.

Like, kitten dude, please understand the argument and quit saying “you don’t have the numbers”. It doesn’t matter. You have an unsubstantiated premise for somehow believing that more people in a mini game will mean that the exploiters will go away. Which makes zero sense considering they’re doing nothing to hinder the farmers but they’re now encouraging them to do it because of the time restriction.

And you failed to answer my question, I don’t care about iteration, once upon a time they laid out and goal and explained what that was to their player base. What they’re doing now has no clear goal or intent, except to limit the players from playing how they want.

If they wanted the mini games to be played more, then why have they still not put a single itty bit of advertisement for them on their social media? Why do they not provide tools or modes of competitive progression to make players invested in it (leader boards)? Why do they not make mini game related rewards that consolidate players investment in the mini game? They could just be cosmetic themed content, that can’t be that hard to produce. Oh, what’s that? Because that would mean they’re spending dev time on something that they don’t think will be a sound use of resources. Then why the kitten are they doing this “iterative process” in the first place? Just for lulz? To kitten me off?

Vayne, you’re at the point where your arguments are running into themselves in this desperate act of trying to justify what is an unexplained action by ArenaNet that causes far more harm that it potentially causes good. It doesn’t even sound like you liked Keg Brawl, nor have you responded to any of the points I made about ways to improve the issue as a player instead of ArenaNet restricting the way you want to play the game. And if you say that garbage about numbers one more time, I might actually cry, because it hurts that you will repeatedly use what essentially boils down to “ArenaNet’s decisions are infallible because they are ArenaNet”

Do you know why it’s a fact that a percentage of people like minigames. Because we know for a fact a percentage of people don’t. How do we know this? Because they’ve posted repeatedly on this forum. They want less fluff content (in which they include minigames). They want more dungeons, a continuation of the personal story, and other stuff that aren’t mini games. That’s how I know a percentage don’t like them. And I do know some people personally who never play any mini game, including the co-leader of my guild. She’s tried them and has zero interest in them. She’s not in that demographic. Point one addressed.

Point 2, now that we’ve determined there is a demographic, we need to figure out how many people DO play minigames and for how LONG they play them. Everyone likes to see other people as they see themselves. You like them, so others must like them too, but that’s not necessarily the case. Even people who don’t mind them, like me and my wife, won’t spent huge amounts of time in minigames, unless there’s an achievement involved that we want.

So that’s another demographic right there.

You take the people willing to play minigames OFTEN, and you give them 12 minigames and you are in fact cutting down the amount of people who will play each mini game. This is just basic logic.

Unless you can convince me that most people like minigames most of the time, you’re going to run into this problem.

And if you factor in the people who play off hours instead of prime time (and there’s a fair number of those like all of Australia for example), you’ll find that after hours it’s harder to find people for mini games.

This is a solution for a lot of people who do play odd hours. You may not accept it and it’s fine. But it doesn’t stop it from being true.

Vayne.8563:

Serelisk.6573:

Just wish there was more people who’re as upset as I am because I’ve got less reason to play this game now and there’s nothing I can do about it. :/

This is my point…there probably are people as upset as you, but Keg Brawl in and of itself was never a major selling point of this game for most people. And I’m sure there are Keg Brawl fans out there, but there are also people who hate what it became…and I’m one of them.

At least this way you’ll have kegbrawl for one day out of four. But I’m surprised that people are staying in this game just or mostly for keg brawl. And I’m equally surprised people who like Keg Brawl don’t like some of the other minigames either.

Your point is asinine, and comes from the position of defending ArenaNet. Through most of this thread, you haven’t actually been arguing the original point, which is that it does a lot of harm and not a lot of good. You just spent the majority of it justifying ArenaNet’s actions, even if they are mostly negative, on the basis that Keg Brawl isn’t popular, so who cares? That arrogance and blind faith in the developer is hilarious, because all it does is further marginalize people and push them away but does nothing to make the game a more enjoyable experience to play.

Serelisk.6573:

Vayne.8563:

Serelisk.6573:

Just wish there was more people who’re as upset as I am because I’ve got less reason to play this game now and there’s nothing I can do about it. :/

This is my point…there probably are people as upset as you, but Keg Brawl in and of itself was never a major selling point of this game for most people. And I’m sure there are Keg Brawl fans out there, but there are also people who hate what it became…and I’m one of them.

At least this way you’ll have kegbrawl for one day out of four. But I’m surprised that people are staying in this game just or mostly for keg brawl. And I’m equally surprised people who like Keg Brawl don’t like some of the other minigames either.

Your point is asinine, and comes from the position of defending ArenaNet. Through most of this thread, you haven’t actually been arguing the original point, which is that it does a lot of harm and not a lot of good. You just spent the majority of it justifying ArenaNet’s actions, even if they are mostly negative, on the basis that Keg Brawl isn’t popular, so who cares? That arrogance and blind faith in the developer is hilarious, because all it does is further marginalize people and push them away but does nothing to make the game a more enjoyable experience to play.

Your opinion of my point is noted and will be given all the consideration it is due.

People don’t share your opinion so theirs is asinine. Noted.

There’s nothing left to say beyond that.

So wait, Keg Brawl isn’t in hoelbrak anymore? The only mini-game in since launch. The only mini-game that has a tutorial. This one should have been left alone.

Rotate the other mini-games, sanctum sprint/crabb toss/Aspect arena(in a new arena ofc)/some new take on Reapers Rumble or snowball fight/dragon arena. Why is Southsun Survival even on the menu when Evon lost.

Why purposely go out of your way to kitten people off? I don’t get it Anet. It’s the little things that start to add up.

Akari Storm.6809:

So wait, Keg Brawl isn’t in hoelbrak anymore? The only mini-game in since launch. The only mini-game that has a tutorial. This one should have been left alone.

Rotate the other mini-games, sanctum sprint/crabb toss/Aspect arena(in a new arena ofc)/some new take on Reapers Rumble or snowball fight/dragon arena. Why is Southsun Survival even on the menu when Evon lost.

Why purposely go out of your way to kitten people off? I don’t get it Anet. It’s the little things that start to add up.

I think Keg Brawl as it stands is kitten ing more people off (including me) than helping people out who like it. There have been more than one complaint threads about it on the forums.

Vayne.8563:

Serelisk.6573:

Vayne.8563:

Serelisk.6573:

Just wish there was more people who’re as upset as I am because I’ve got less reason to play this game now and there’s nothing I can do about it. :/

This is my point…there probably are people as upset as you, but Keg Brawl in and of itself was never a major selling point of this game for most people. And I’m sure there are Keg Brawl fans out there, but there are also people who hate what it became…and I’m one of them.

At least this way you’ll have kegbrawl for one day out of four. But I’m surprised that people are staying in this game just or mostly for keg brawl. And I’m equally surprised people who like Keg Brawl don’t like some of the other minigames either.

Your point is asinine, and comes from the position of defending ArenaNet. Through most of this thread, you haven’t actually been arguing the original point, which is that it does a lot of harm and not a lot of good. You just spent the majority of it justifying ArenaNet’s actions, even if they are mostly negative, on the basis that Keg Brawl isn’t popular, so who cares? That arrogance and blind faith in the developer is hilarious, because all it does is further marginalize people and push them away but does nothing to make the game a more enjoyable experience to play.

Your opinion of my point is noted and will be given all the consideration it is due.

People don’t share your opinion so theirs is asinine. Noted.

There’s nothing left to say beyond that.

Pretty much that, I just browsed through this thread and all I see is OP repeatingly confusing “that is not a legitimate point” with “that is something I personally dislike” – displaying hierophantic ire while doing so.

Vayne.8563:

Do you know why it’s a fact that a percentage of people like minigames. Because we know for a fact a percentage of people don’t. How do we know this? Because they’ve posted repeatedly on this forum. They want less fluff content (in which they include minigames). They want more dungeons, a continuation of the personal story, and other stuff that aren’t mini games. That’s how I know a percentage don’t like them. And I do know some people personally who never play any mini game, including the co-leader of my guild. She’s tried them and has zero interest in them. She’s not in that demographic. Point one addressed.

Point 2, now that we’ve determined there is a demographic…

Please try and consider why it is that your co-guild leader doesn’t like “mini-games”. Do they not find it fun? Is it because it’s a terrible implementation, or is it because it doesn’t contribute to their PvE/WvW progression? Did it insult their families honor, did it cancel their favorite TV show? Is it not rewarding, is it bugged, are people exploiting it? Results do not exist in a vacuum, they have causes.

That is not a demographic of people, and it’s hilarious that you cannot grasp this. The facets of the game are not SPvP, WvW, Dungeons, Mini Games, etc. It’s SPvP, WvW, Dungeons, Sanctum Sprint, Keg Brawl, Southsun Survival, and Crab Toss. The game play experiences and formula of the content differ, therefore appealing to people for fundamental ways that the game was designed, not its execution.

The only thing they have in common is that they’re instanced, competitive and replace your skill bar with content specific abilities (note: extremely vague categories, SPvP could be considered a mini game if we actually adhered by this). However, Keg brawl and Southsun Survival have virtually nothing in common as far as game play goes and will certainly appeal to entirely different people. And if you can’t understand that last sentence, well then I have no more words for you.

So you saying that your co-guild leader doesn’t like mini games even though there’s 4 completely different experiences does not mean anything, cause it’s severely unlikely she doesn’t like them just because they’re labelled mini games, it’s more likely that the experiences they offered didn’t appeal to them. Who’s to say they won’t add a mini game that’s different from the other 4 that they completely love? Alternatively, she could just be uninterested in playing them because they don’t contribute to their character progression, but unless you’re willing to accept that a vast swath of the player base is going to reject any experience if it does not directly influence their PvE characters, this is not likely to establish any substantial demographic.

So your entire argument is false on the basis that there are probably a very limited number of people who will absolutely refuse to play a mini game or will think it’s not fun just because it’s a segregated experience. Otherwise, there’s 4 different games with entirely different game play experiences and reasons to enjoy them enough so that they each deserve their own demographic of players, not just one “people who like mini games”.

Just to reiterate, since you clearly didn’t read the thread like you said you did: I am not the OP. ._.

Vayne.8563:

Akari Storm.6809:

So wait, Keg Brawl isn’t in hoelbrak anymore? The only mini-game in since launch. The only mini-game that has a tutorial. This one should have been left alone.

Rotate the other mini-games, sanctum sprint/crabb toss/Aspect arena(in a new arena ofc)/some new take on Reapers Rumble or snowball fight/dragon arena. Why is Southsun Survival even on the menu when Evon lost.

Why purposely go out of your way to kitten people off? I don’t get it Anet. It’s the little things that start to add up.

I think Keg Brawl as it stands is kitten ing more people off (including me) than helping people out who like it. There have been more than one complaint threads about it on the forums.

You have yet to explain how any of this is fixed by what they’re doing now when we know for a fact that ArenaNet didn’t do anything to Keg Brawl except put it in this rotation.

Vayne.8563:

Your opinion of my point is noted and will be given all the consideration it is due.

People don’t share your opinion so theirs is asinine. Noted.

There’s nothing left to say beyond that.

My point was that you haven’t been arguing the original topic at all, just saying that ArenaNet’s justified in removing Keg Brawl if they felt so inclined. If you actually want to discuss something, discuss it, instead of the passive aggressive replies meant to attack someone’s character.

I am very disappointed that the aspect arena is not included in the rotation. It was by far my favourite minigame.

Evans.6347:

I am very disappointed that the aspect arena is not included in the rotation. It was by far my favourite minigame.

Please notice that he is disappointed he’s not able to play something because it was his favorite. He is likely not going to be able to just settle with the rest just because they’re also called mini games… Idk if I need to keep emphasizing this but what the heck.

Serelisk.6573:

Vayne.8563:

Do you know why it’s a fact that a percentage of people like minigames. Because we know for a fact a percentage of people don’t. How do we know this? Because they’ve posted repeatedly on this forum. They want less fluff content (in which they include minigames). They want more dungeons, a continuation of the personal story, and other stuff that aren’t mini games. That’s how I know a percentage don’t like them. And I do know some people personally who never play any mini game, including the co-leader of my guild. She’s tried them and has zero interest in them. She’s not in that demographic. Point one addressed.

Point 2, now that we’ve determined there is a demographic…

Please try and consider why it is that your co-guild leader doesn’t like “mini-games”. Do they not find it fun? Is it because it’s a terrible implementation, or is it because it doesn’t contribute to their PvE/WvW progression? Did it insult their families honor, did it cancel their favorite TV show? Is it not rewarding, is it bugged, are people exploiting it? Results do not exist in a vacuum, they have causes.

That is not a demographic of people, and it’s hilarious that you cannot grasp this. The facets of the game are not SPvP, WvW, Dungeons, Mini Games, etc. It’s SPvP, WvW, Dungeons, Sanctum Sprint, Keg Brawl, Southsun Survival, and Crab Toss. The game play experiences and formula of the content differ, therefore appealing to people for fundamental ways that the game was designed, not its execution.

The only thing they have in common is that they’re instanced, competitive and replace your skill bar with content specific abilities (note: extremely vague categories, SPvP could be considered a mini game if we actually adhered by this). However, Keg brawl and Southsun Survival have virtually nothing in common as far as game play goes and will certainly appeal to entirely different people. And if you can’t understand that last sentence, well then I have no more words for you.

So you saying that your co-guild leader doesn’t like mini games even though there’s 4 completely different experiences does not mean anything, cause it’s severely unlikely she doesn’t like them just because they’re labelled mini games, it’s more likely that the experiences they offered didn’t appeal to them. Who’s to say they won’t add a mini game that’s different from the other 4 that they completely love? Alternatively, she could just be uninterested in playing them because they don’t contribute to their character progression, but unless you’re willing to accept that a vast swath of the player base is going to reject any experience if it does not directly influence their PvE characters, this is not likely to establish any substantial demographic.

So your entire argument is false on the basis that there are probably a very limited number of people who will absolutely refuse to play a mini game or will think it’s not fun just because it’s a segregated experience. Otherwise, there’s 4 different games with entirely different game play experiences and reasons to enjoy them enough so that they each deserve their own demographic of players, not just one “people who like mini games”.

Okay time to put an end to this. Here’s THE definition of demographic:

A portion of a population, especially considered as consumers.

Are you saying a portion of the population (all of whom would qualify as consumers in this game) are not anti-mini games.

You’re so blinded by your own love of Keg Brawl you’ve lost all perspective.

Edit: My co-leader is neither progress oriented nor hardcore in any way. She’s more of an immersion player who enjoys time spent in the open world. She’s doesn’t like PvP either…or dungeons for that matter.

Vayne.8563:

Okay time to put an end to this. Here’s THE definition of demographic:

A portion of a population, especially considered as consumers.

Are you saying a portion of the population (all of whom would qualify as consumers in this game) are not anti-mini games.

You’re so blinded by your own love of Keg Brawl you’ve lost all perspective.

No, because there’s no such topic as anti-mini games. That group of players that actually doesn’t like something just because it’s called a mini game and refuses to play it for soley that reason has to be ridiculously small. Like 0.00002%. What defines a mini game does not define a game play experience or what makes them satisfactory, or there’s very unintuitive or niche opinions that would possibly make someone really dislike something just because it’s called a mini game. Your argument relies on the assumption that those who speak out against mini games not only never actually played and enjoyed a mini game in GW2, but are also a large group of people (which you’ll never get from judging based off the forums…) in the game.

You can be anti keg brawl, anti southsun survival, anti crab toss, and anti sanctum sprint, but this does not inherently mean you’re anti mini games because there could be a new mini game with an entirely different game play experiences that said person could really like.

Also, can you please stop trying to make some weird association between me liking Keg Brawl, and my opinion. As far as it extends, I love Keg Brawl and played it a ton, so I’m sad to see it get taken away. That’s as far as my bias or “perspective” extends, you saying stuff like that just devalues any qualities your points had before because it’s making you sound biased against keg brawl.

Serelisk.6573:

Vayne.8563:

Okay time to put an end to this. Here’s THE definition of demographic:

A portion of a population, especially considered as consumers.

Are you saying a portion of the population (all of whom would qualify as consumers in this game) are not anti-mini games.

You’re so blinded by your own love of Keg Brawl you’ve lost all perspective.

No, because there’s no such topic as anti-mini games. That group of players that actually doesn’t like something just because it’s called a mini game and refuses to play it for soley that reason has to be ridiculously small. Like 0.00002%. What defines a mini game does not define a game play experience or what makes them satisfactory, or there’s very unintuitive or niche opinions that would possibly make someone really dislike something just because it’s called a mini game. Your argument relies on the assumption that those who speak out against mini games not only never actually played and enjoyed a mini game in GW2, but are also a large group of people (which you’ll never get from judging based off the forums…) in the game.

You can be anti keg brawl, anti southsun survival, anti crab toss, and anti sanctum sprint, but this does not inherently mean you’re anti mini games because there could be a new mini game with an entirely different game play experiences that said person could really like.

Also, can you please stop trying to make some weird association between me liking Keg Brawl, and my opinion. As far as it extends, I love Keg Brawl and played it a ton, so I’m sad to see it get taken away. That’s as far as my bias or “perspective” extends, you saying stuff like that just devalues any qualities your points had before because it’s making you sound biased against keg brawl.

A demographic is a section of a population…that’s it.

There’s a section of the population that likes mini games and there’s a section that doesn’t. That’s case closed there. Unless the entire population likes minigames, there’s a demographic that doesn’t. If you don’t like the word, change it to segment in your mind. These people exist. Your denial of them is just that…denial.

Furthermore of the people in the game who like mini games, many don’t like Keg Brawl. How many? You don’t know. You have no clue. You’re using your likes and dislikes to try to prove what? That more people like it than I think? Good luck with that.

Anet DOES have the numbers of who plays and how much. They didn’t think it was worth keeping.

Now I wouldn’t care of they DID keep it, but it had become something for me that I’d ONLY do on a day that it was an achievement and I’d leave immediately after the achievement, and I really LIKE most minigames.

But Keg Brawl was ailing. You admit yourself it needed work. I’m not sure the work it would need would be worth the time.

Vayne.8563:

A demographic is a section of a population…that’s it.

There’s a section of the population that likes mini games and there’s a section that doesn’t. That’s case closed there. Unless the entire population likes minigames, there’s a demographic that doesn’t. If you don’t like the word, change it to segment in your mind. These people exist. Your denial of them is just that…denial.

Furthermore of the people in the game who like mini games, many don’t like Keg Brawl. How many? You don’t know. You have no clue. You’re using your likes and dislikes to try to prove what? That more people like it than I think? Good luck with that.

Anet DOES have the numbers of who plays and how much. They didn’t think it was worth keeping.

Now I wouldn’t care of they DID keep it, but it had become something for me that I’d ONLY do on a day that it was an achievement and I’d leave immediately after the achievement, and I really LIKE most minigames.

But Keg Brawl was ailing. You admit yourself it needed work. I’m not sure the work it would need would be worth the time.

You bogging down the word demographic to semantics doesn’t really help your case then, because for all intents and purposes, if you’re accepting my assessment, then you’re also accepting that the vast overwhelming majority of the population “like mini games” because they’re open to different a varied game play.

Again with the number, I don’t care about your justifications for ArenaNet’s actions. Because it doesn’t do anything to address my point that they’re making a design decision which has a negative impact on the player base, no matter how few people it effects, but no positive outcome.

We can go back to debating if the outcomes will be positive, but the bottom line of that anyway is wait-and-see, but my opinion is that they’re heavily weighed in the direction of the exploit and farming problem becoming even worse, even if it takes a couple rotations for that to become an issue.

And would you have the same opinion of Keg Brawl, regardless of if it’s “worth it for them to do so”, if they actually fixed the things that are wrong with it?

Liking mini games and spending much of their time playing minigames are very different things. I like mini games too…as a change of pace, not as something I spend most of my game time doing. Most of my guild is the same way.

Mini games for achievement points are sort of different because people aren’t necessarily playing them because they like them. I did play Aspect Arena for the achievements, but I much preferred Southsun Survival and wish I could have spent more time there.

However, it’s still a sideline for me and I spend a relatively small amount of time playing minigames…and I play a lot. What about people who play less (which is just about everyone).

Even if most people do like mini games not everyone has time to say do a fractal or dungeon and play a mini game.

Anet has these numbers…you don’t. It really is that simple.

So even if EVERYONE liked minigames it doesn’t necessarily mean that a lot of people spent alot of time doing it. It’s not just a matter of liking or not liking. It’s a matter of time spent playing.

Once you determine that (which neither you or I can), then you have to figure out how many mini games you can afford to have running at one time.

Vayne.8563:

Liking mini games and spending much of their time playing minigames are very different things. I like mini games too…as a change of pace, not as something I spend most of my game time doing. Most of my guild is the same way.

Mini games for achievement points are sort of different because people aren’t necessarily playing them because they like them. I did play Aspect Arena for the achievements, but I much preferred Southsun Survival and wish I could have spent more time there.

However, it’s still a sideline for me and I spend a relatively small amount of time playing minigames…and I play a lot. What about people who play less (which is just about everyone).

Even if most people do like mini games not everyone has time to say do a fractal or dungeon and play a mini game.

Anet has these numbers…you don’t. It really is that simple.

So even if EVERYONE liked minigames it doesn’t necessarily mean that a lot of people spent alot of time doing it. It’s not just a matter of liking or not liking. It’s a matter of time spent playing.

Once you determine that (which neither you or I can), then you have to figure out how many mini games you can afford to have running at one time.

But that’s like anything in the game…

…and there’s still so many things concerning the reason why this may be that you refuse to address, but instead keep pulling up this same bs invisible numbers argument. Like, I understand that but it doesn’t make their decision right cause all they did was drive more people away from mini games.

How does their numbers possibly translate into it being a good idea to inconvenience or otherwise drive away players, no matter how small? They’re doing zero to make the mini games more appealing, they’re just taking them away from people who wish to play whenever they want.

Also, people are already talking about those who go in and just afk until the game is completed, rewarding them with a daily completion in less than 10 minutes…

Is this the Keg Brawl game you want to play?

Edit: In fact, I just went in and did so and there were 2 other people running into walls in crab toss.

Dude, these mini games are so good! I love them! /end sarcasm

Hello again.

I do not know, I came up with this extreme idea, where instead of giving mini-game an achievement system, which mostly encourage only to play mini-game only to complete them, why not to create some ,,tournament,, for each of specific minigame ? Since we have tournamets for Spvp why not to try this here ? After all, this is also some kind of PVP content, and maybe it should be treated as such ? The rewards could be some skins for PVP related to each minigame for instance Keg Brawl reminds me of american football so why not create skins simillar to this ? Let’s just make minigames as a coherent content with other activities.

Vayne.8563:

Anet DOES have the numbers of who plays and how much. They didn’t think it was worth keeping.

But why remove it when it’s already permanent? What makes it not worth keeping? Because there’s not a ton of people playing it? What did they expect to see without any support for their only permanent minigame?

I recall both Kiel and Gnashblade advertising the rotation of mini games because it would “make things more interesting” or something along those lines, feel free to provide the direct quote if you can find it, but the manner they chose to try to populate the game will only increase the concentration of farmers and lobbers. Going from a permanent fixture in the game to a rotation will NOT help KB in the way Anet is intending it to. Yes, it will populate the games more than previously on its rotation days. However, the population will have an increase of farmers and lobbers by percentage which will sour the gameplay.

This is taking a huge step backward in the progression of support for Keg Brawl. Yes, we don’t have the information and the numbers Anet has, but taking the game from a permanent mini-game to a rotated one makes literally no sense in terms of the quality of the gameplay. It’s going to turn into a cheap hotspot for achievement farming and become another minion of Anet’s reward system.

Blumiere.1489:

Hello again.

I do not know, I came up with this extreme idea, where instead of giving mini-game an achievement system, which mostly encourage only to play mini-game only to complete them, why not to create some ,,tournament,, for each of specific minigame ? Since we have tournamets for Spvp why not to try this here ? After all, this is also some kind of PVP content, and maybe it should be treated as such ? The rewards could be some skins for PVP related to each minigame for instance Keg Brawl reminds me of american football so why not create skins simillar to this ? Let’s just make minigames as a coherent content with other activities.

This would be awesome to have tournament support for each mini-game, and it’s something PUNT has wanted for a while for KB, but the idea will keep getting shot down until mini-games have enough support for Anet to believe it’s worth it. They operate based on numbers and statistics instead of player enjoyment

LOL okay now I KNOW ArenaNet’s trolling me. Really? I’m all excited to come home and play after working all day. Come home to play Keg brawl, because if it’s a rotation of mini games, then one would assume since Sanctum Sprint had gone, then Southsun Survival, then Crab Toss, Keg Brawl would logically be the one that should’ve started at 8pm EST when the stuff resets…

…but NOPE, it’s Sanctum Sprint again! And on my day off work, which I was looking forward to, too! Because it would’ve given me a full day to kitten Keg Brawl on its first day in rotation… amazing huh? They didn’t even wait to see the numbers before just taking Keg Brawl out.

Unless this is a random rotation? And they actually are taking huge dumps on the idea of letting people play the game they want and when. Now you can’t even schedule it. Incredible. Honestly, I have no other words to describe this.

I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they’re actually taking Keg brawl out temporarily so they can fix all the issues that I’ve been kittening about since September in order to fix it up for the new daily rotation. But considering they didn’t touch it for 12 months, I’m doing some serious mental gymnastics o hold back a torrent of disappointment.

Serelisk.6573:

Also, people are already talking about those who go in and just afk until the game is completed, rewarding them with a daily completion in less than 10 minutes…

Is this the Keg Brawl game you want to play?

Edit: In fact, I just went in and did so and there were 2 other people running into walls in crab toss.

Dude, these mini games are so good! I love them! /end sarcasm

Right, people are Akitteng at minigames. So you make it so that they can’t or they can get reported like leeching in Guild Wars 1. That’s another issue.

But those same people go to keg brawl to get achievements anyway….this argument changes nothing.

Vayne.8563:

Serelisk.6573:

Also, people are already talking about those who go in and just afk until the game is completed, rewarding them with a daily completion in less than 10 minutes…

Is this the Keg Brawl game you want to play?

Edit: In fact, I just went in and did so and there were 2 other people running into walls in crab toss.

Dude, these mini games are so good! I love them! /end sarcasm

Right, people are Akitteng at minigames. So you make it so that they can’t or they can get reported like leeching in Guild Wars 1. That’s another issue.

But those same people go to keg brawl to get achievements anyway….this argument changes nothing.

This was a hit on the new daily achievement, but the point is that this isn’t a positive addition to the activity in general. But you know what’s also not good? Not letting people play it. Guess I’ll have to wait and see if it’s on tomorrow, but I’ll be working all day anyway so not like it matters.

Southsun Survival, yay.

I think they actually did take out Keg Brawl. :/

This is messed up. ArenaNet shouldn’t get a free pass on disrespecting a portion of their playerbase even if it is small.
I don’t even like Keg Brawl that much, but I know if ArenaNet took something out of the game that I enjoy without consulting or even explaining it, I’d be pretty kitten ed.

This better be a bug, otherwise ArenaNet has lied to their playerbase. Even if you don’t play Keg Brawl, how can so many people have viewed this thread but only a few actually care to speak against what is clearly a wrong on the developers’ part.

Addy Bee.1746:

This is messed up. ArenaNet shouldn’t get a free pass on disrespecting a portion of their playerbase even if it is small.
I don’t even like Keg Brawl that much, but I know if ArenaNet took something out of the game that I enjoy without consulting or even explaining it, I’d be pretty kitten ed.

The problem is, for many of us, Keg Brawl was broken. Not the OP certainly, but I used to love Keg Brawl and due to the way the game was, I started to dislike it immensely. Sure the potential is there, but as it stood, Keg Brawl was an awful game.

Maybe, hopefully, Anet is working on some fixes for it, before bringing it into the rotation. That’s my hope, because the potential is there.

But taking it out of the game in it’s current form probably isn’t a bad idea, because they way it’s structured, it’s very very hard for new people to get into it (unlike most of the other minigame activities).

Vayne.8563:

Addy Bee.1746:

This is messed up. ArenaNet shouldn’t get a free pass on disrespecting a portion of their playerbase even if it is small.
I don’t even like Keg Brawl that much, but I know if ArenaNet took something out of the game that I enjoy without consulting or even explaining it, I’d be pretty kitten ed.

The problem is, for many of us, Keg Brawl was broken. Not the OP certainly, but I used to love Keg Brawl and due to the way the game was, I started to dislike it immensely. Sure the potential is there, but as it stood, Keg Brawl was an awful game.

Maybe, hopefully, Anet is working on some fixes for it, before bringing it into the rotation. That’s my hope, because the potential is there.

But taking it out of the game in it’s current form probably isn’t a bad idea, because they way it’s structured, it’s very very hard for new people to get into it (unlike most of the other minigame activities).

Seriously?

Again, not the OP. Furthermore, there’s so many issues with you what you said.

How is it that after 12 months, they’re justified to take Keg Brawl out of the game without any acknowledgement or notification of this incident? As another poster said, if they really did take it out, then they lied to their customers. Under what business practice can you possibly say that this is a good thing from a consumer point of view?

Also, ArenaNet, to my knowledge, have never done something like that unless it was an emergency reaction and very temporary. For example, if there’s some massive exploit being used and it has the potential to break the economy, they’ll take something offline until they have the potential to fix it. Otherwise, they’ll just patch it and load it into the next build. That’s the entire reason they have that dual build system.

Furthermore, why is it in your mind a good idea to simply kill something that people enjoy instead of even attempting once to fix it over the course of 12 months?

Your posts are making less and less sense. Seriously, stop just trying to defend ArenaNet for the sake of defending them. If you’re gonna be using this much energy on the forum, why not encourage them to actually fix the problems with Keg brawl instead of letting them know it’s completely okay to kill it?

Vayne.8563:

The problem is, for many of us, Keg Brawl was broken. Not the OP certainly, but I used to love Keg Brawl and due to the way the game was, I started to dislike it immensely. Sure the potential is there, but as it stood, Keg Brawl was an awful game.

It was not awful. It had its fair share of problems, but when you could convince both teams to stop lobbing and have a game using passes to your teammates and evasion techniques other than the classic ice and lob, it was one of the most fun experiences I’ve had in GW2. I’ve played many games with PUNT guildies and other skilled players and the game is instantly more fun when you can play against adept opponents who are teamwork-based.

Vayne.8563:

But taking it out of the game in it’s current form probably isn’t a bad idea, because they way it’s structured, it’s very very hard for new people to get into it (unlike most of the other minigame activities).

It’s hard for new players to get past the temptations to farm and lob, because that’s the first thing they see when they play for the first time. The game mechanics themselves are not that hard to grasp and most new players I’ve played games with grasp the techniques within a few games (when to dodge, the correct times to use your skills, etc) and actually become quite challenging and sometimes give me a run for my money. Players who are used to a PvP environment specifically excel at KB because they are used to timing their dodges correctly and using them more conservatively. The game is much more dynamic than other mini games, which may be what you’re referring to. Most intelligent players who are not expecting to repeat the same action every game will do fine at it

I think this rotation was a good idea. They will always have enough players because everyone isn’t scattered to too many minigames at once. Also the minigames wont get too boring when you can’t repeat them all the time.

Bambu.4270:

I think this rotation was a good idea. They will always have enough players because everyone isn’t scattered to too many minigames at once. Also the minigames wont get too boring when you can’t repeat them all the time.

Yay, more unfounded and speculation based commentary from someone who doesn’t engage in this part of the game frequently enough to make accurate commentary on it.

I will never understand how you can prefer to be forced not to be able to play something at all for a large period of time than having the freedom to choose when you want to play.

Serelisk.6573:

Bambu.4270:

I think this rotation was a good idea. They will always have enough players because everyone isn’t scattered to too many minigames at once. Also the minigames wont get too boring when you can’t repeat them all the time.

Yay, more unfounded and speculation based commentary from someone who doesn’t engage in this part of the game frequently enough to make accurate commentary on it.

I will never understand how you can prefer to be forced not to be able to play something at all for a large period of time than having the freedom to choose when you want to play.

You’re gonna have a bad time if you think this is Minigame Wars 2. With the rotation they added I do that activity once a day or more if it’s sanctum sprint because I love that.

And how can you even judge people like that? Saying that we aren’t allowed to express our opinion because we don’t do something enough daily? Seriously you need to take a break.

Bambu.4270:

Serelisk.6573:

Bambu.4270:

I think this rotation was a good idea. They will always have enough players because everyone isn’t scattered to too many minigames at once. Also the minigames wont get too boring when you can’t repeat them all the time.

Yay, more unfounded and speculation based commentary from someone who doesn’t engage in this part of the game frequently enough to make accurate commentary on it.

I will never understand how you can prefer to be forced not to be able to play something at all for a large period of time than having the freedom to choose when you want to play.

You’re gonna have a bad time if you think this is Minigame Wars 2. With the rotation they added I do that activity once a day or more if it’s sanctum sprint because I love that.

And how can you even judge people like that? Saying that we aren’t allowed to express our opinion because we don’t do something enough daily? Seriously you need to take a break.

Never said you can’t express your opinion. I implore you to find what part of my post said you shouldn’t be allowed to express your opinion. I was just saying that your commentary was inaccurate because you likely have very little experience with the content in question.

You can refute this, and if you provide enough evidence for me to believe otherwise, then so be it. I am wrong. But from your post, it seemed like you don’t engage in this stuff frequently enough. I believe that if you truly did, you would’ve been able to provide better insight than copy pasting the same tired argument that I’ve shot down in this very thread some ten or so times already.

Furthermore, it’s hilarious that you made that mini game quip. I don’t normally tell people this, but go ahead. Click on the activities link in my sig. ArenaNet planned to have 30. Not 4, but thirty permanent activities in the game at launch. Why this never happened they never explained, but you can see them all around the capital cities. This was back when ArenaNet believed in developing fun and varied gaming experiences, not excuses for some shiny, packaged up in a to-do list that comes out every 2 weeks. So before speaking from the position of arrogance, I’d try to know a little bit more about the game I’m playing if I was you.

Nerf head crack it’s too OP I guess, gg anet