Guild Wars 2

Mkalafut.1273:

You claim to be the all-knowing prophet of gaming with a master’s degree in MMO community knowledge, yet you condemn people for speaking their mind about obvious, unnecessary cash grabs in lieu of actual content.

I know enough about mmo communities because I play the game, and technically have a degree (not masters) in 3d animation, working alongside game designers and coders so you could say I do know what I’m talking about to a certain extent, but that’s not what I’m saying. What I’m talking about is you would think it was obvious that this would exist.

A game gets released where you only pay for the game box, and a cash shop exists in game. A company exists to make money, how they do that is their own choice. They choose to offer the community a service in the form of a game but to appeal to a wider market they make it cheaper than most, with the potential to be more expensive than most. To appeal to even more of a market, the only reason it would be more expensive is to look good so they sacrifice money by not introducing statistically better items but gain more players for that reason.

If you feel forced to buy these items, and then come crying on here because a games company who are out to make money aren’t doing exactly what you’re asking for then of course I and others will condemn you. If you owned a company I can guarantee you would go for the option that might upset a few people but made you 10x more money in the long run. It’s just logic.

Jaall.3420:

If you owned a company I can guarantee you would go for the option that might upset a few people but made you 10x more money in the long run. It’s just logic.

No.

Some of us don’t operate that way. I could do a lot less work and satisfy both my customers, boss, and co-workers (actually make some of my co-workers happier because it would be less work for them), but I have standards of excellence that I try to uphold.

Not everything is about maximizing money for time spent.

Eventually that “make 10X the money” attitude comes back to bite you in the kitten. It sacrifices long term viability for immediate returns.

Once again the naysayers have entered the fray saying “no the games fine” we’ll see.

It’s just another thing that’s problematic. Cosmetics only available with tickets are a money grab seriously. Entire sets this is just ridiculous, and anything new in game requires hours of work to get. (guild/laurels) so might as well play for over a year in some cases or pay gold that’s about as balanced an approach to this as the way they’ve balanced PVE classes. no surprise there.

Gibson.4036:

Jaall.3420:

If you owned a company I can guarantee you would go for the option that might upset a few people but made you 10x more money in the long run. It’s just logic.

No.

Some of us don’t operate that way. I could do a lot less work and satisfy both my customers, boss, and co-workers (actually make some of my co-workers happier because it would be less work for them), but I have standards of excellence that I try to uphold.

Not everything is about maximizing money for time spent.

Eventually that “make 10X the money” attitude comes back to bite you in the kitten. It sacrifices long term viability for immediate returns.

But some things are about maximising money for time spent, and obviously this is the direction the developers have chosen to take, whether you like it or not. They make the money off people therefore it wont change until that stops, which it won’t because there will always be rich people who want things right this second. It’s a fantastic model in the eyes of any business because it works, and usually the sacrifice is worth it.

When it stops working they can just as easily produce skins etc to be available without RNG and everyone will come running back (and before you say no they wont, you can’t realistically speak for everyone, and considering a lot of people have already come back to the game it’s obvious that is the case).

Also look at the popularity of CoF in game, that’s all about maximising money for time spent, and everyone does that and defends it. If ANet were to nerf that tomorrow I bet there would be a lot of players crying that they’ve ruined the game. Just saying.

Jaall.3420:

If you owned a company I can guarantee you would go for the option that might upset a few people but made you 10x more money in the long run. It’s just logic.

actually GW2 was sold by ANET good reputation….
On the long run i think it will cost a lot instead…..expecially if they plan to release another game under the label of Arena net.

It just reminds me to what Electronic Arts did when they started their new business ethic.

Don t get me wrong EA is doing lot of moneys…..but i don t think Anet/nixon/NCSOFT are in the same situation..

They are betting on a completely different target that has the opposite trend comparing to the other.

It doesn’t really upset that many people though, people don’t like it but these items aren’t needed. If they were best in slot then yea they would lose a lot of players, but in this case they really are only sacrificing a small portion of players. I would also bet that while everyone says they’re going to quit over this, they wont and will keep playing for a very long time, because it’s human nature to dramatise a situation in order to see results, but is usually just all bark and no bite. And besides these skins are a lot easier to get than the fused weapon skins, so it is definitely possible to get them without spending any money if you want them that badly.

Edit – also NCSoft does have a say in what happens in GW2 and is probably where these RNG skin ideas originate from. They don’t have the same reputation as ANet does.

dinominator.9862:

What’s the alternative? You can offer the cosmetics as a straight purchase, but then everyone has them and they’re completely worthless.

This is an example of mindset that is completely alien to me. I just don’t understand how something might look better or worse depending on how many people has it. How? The item in question does not change at all.

Jaall.3420:

Edit – also NCSoft does have a say in what happens in GW2 and is probably where these RNG skin ideas originate from. They don’t have the same reputation as ANet does.

wether this is true or not, if i remember well anet negated it fficially.

moreover you cannot praise anet for the thing they did well and blame ncsoft for what you don t like….

I see more offending issues btw…
Like the fact they seemed to have removed fine trasmutation stones from dailies and map completion.

Just a query for GW1 players: did they have an RMT system in place with GW1, where players can convert cash→gold and then back?

If they have, then complaints here hold stronger, since GW1 seems a better prototype in the cash shop that they have compared to GW2, in the point where players can convert in-game cash then buy item directly for a skin.

OTOH, if they haven’t, then IMO it was designed so that the ingame RMT doesn’t instantly spike and become unavailable to the players who are unable to spend cash on virtual transactions.

Just my 0.02c.

Advent Leader.1083:

Just a query for GW1 players: did they have an RMT system in place with GW1, where players can convert cash->gold and then back?

If they have, then complaints here hold stronger, since GW1 seems a better prototype in the cash shop that they have compared to GW2, in the point where players can convert in-game cash then buy item directly for a skin.

OTOH, if they haven’t, then IMO it was designed so that the ingame RMT doesn’t instantly spike and become unavailable to the players who are unable to spend cash on virtual transactions.

Just my 0.02c.

No GW1 was just costumes, stuff like that. All “cool” weapons were drops though, very very limited drops.

Jaall.3420:

It doesn’t really upset that many people though, people don’t like it but these items aren’t needed.

When you build your game around collecting skins for cosmetics, then lock your cosmetics behind RNG, yes, it upsets people.

Jaall.3420:

If they were best in slot then yea they would lose a lot of players, but in this case they really are only sacrificing a small portion of players. I would also bet that while everyone says they’re going to quit over this, they wont and will keep playing for a very long time, because it’s human nature to dramatise a situation in order to see results, but is usually just all bark and no bite.

I think you are missing the big picture here. In fact, I know you are.

ANET made a lengthy song and dance in their pitch when they launched GW2 to herd all the jaded, burnt out gamers that were tired of the mainstream MMO status quo. It worked. That, combined with the reputation ANET had built up with the GW1 community made them the goose and this game their golden egg.

Following me? ok.

In comes Nexon and their monetization specialist. Now everything that is perceived as being valuable in the game is locked behind RNG. It is an effective way to make money, but this isn’t Maplestory. What people are catching onto is that there seems to be a shift to make GW2 more like a Nexon product than an ANET product.

You speak about sacrifice and small numbers, but you miss the point of reputation. A company is nothing without good street credit. Look at EA. ANET, in some people’s opinion, have taken that same path.

Illysharia.7286:

Jaall.3420:

It doesn’t really upset that many people though, people don’t like it but these items aren’t needed.

When you build your game around collecting skins for cosmetics, then lock your cosmetics behind RNG, yes, it upsets people.

Jaall.3420:

If they were best in slot then yea they would lose a lot of players, but in this case they really are only sacrificing a small portion of players. I would also bet that while everyone says they’re going to quit over this, they wont and will keep playing for a very long time, because it’s human nature to dramatise a situation in order to see results, but is usually just all bark and no bite.

I think you are missing the big picture here. In fact, I know you are.

ANET made a lengthy song and dance in their pitch when they launched GW2 to herd all the jaded, burnt out gamers that were tired of the mainstream MMO status quo. It worked. That, combined with the reputation ANET had built up with the GW1 community made them the goose and this game their golden egg.

Following me? ok.

In comes Nexon and their monetization specialist. Now everything that is perceived as being valuable in the game is locked behind RNG. It is an effective way to make money, but this isn’t Maplestory. What people are catching onto is that there seems to be a shift to make GW2 more like a Nexon product than an ANET product.

You speak about sacrifice and small numbers, but you miss the point of reputation. A company is nothing without good street credit. Look at EA. ANET, in some people’s opinion, have taken that same path.

I don’t buy this at all. Anet said all along the cash shop would be a major part of Guild Wars 2. They never lied about it.

They said the cash shop in Guild Wars 1 was added as an afterthought but the cash shop in Guild Wars 2 would be more central to the game. I’m paraphrasing here, but it was said straight out.

Furthermore, there’s no pay to win in this shop, which for most people is the cut off point.

There will be people who leave, sure, I get that. But compared to other MMOs out there, this is a very mild cash shop.

That doesn’t mean I don’t agree with the RNG skin thing, but even in Guild Wars 1 I saw some things that changed. Like after they started adding costumes in the store, they stuff they gave away on halloween and christmas for free at events became crap.

Cat ears for Halloween? Oh good. Where is my mask? lol

Vol.5241:

As soon as sales start to lag I’m sure they will consider offering it directly through the store. In the meantime, I’m going to buy 25 more keys.

Gross. You’re part of the reason why ArenaNet thinks it’s okay to keep throwing gambling boxes on the gem store.

Bearzu Smash.5962:

And lest you think this an anti-cash shop rant, I’d be more than happy to pay $10 for an outfit or a cool weapon skin I couldn’t otherwise get. But to gamble for it? No way.

(Well, ok, maybe not “more than happy to”, but certainly willing to.)

I would be absolutely delighted to pay $10 a pop for a skin I like, as I did for the reusable mining pick (another worthwhile, straight-up microtransaction). I loathe the lockbox approach and will not buy them.

No Walking.6349:

Remember when cool items used to cost time, and not money… Glad to see all the people running around with these weapons and know that they spent no effort to get them at all, but instead just opened their wallet.

You do realize that all money buys you are gems, which incidentally you can also buy with in-game gold, which in turn you get by spending time playing the game. What was your issue…?

Bearzu Smash.5962:

No, consumers are attempting to make their voices heard because in a game where it’s all about the cosmetics for the majority of the player base people are being asked to gamble for a chance at cosmetic items rather than being allowed to straight-up buy them.

No, they aren’t.

What is happening is that a subset of the total number of people playing this game is complaining on a forum. You would do well to note that this is the case for any number of issues, every day, forever. And it’s extremely dangerous to extrapolate any meaningful assessment of the total playerbase from the content of the forums. ArenaNet and NCSoft know not to do this, and it’s a valuable thing for anyone who cares about the future of this game to learn.

Consumers making their voices heard in this case would be to stop buying anything associated with RNG for real money. Without any need for data I can tell you that this would be 100% effective in eliminating a random chest/box approach to introducing new items. Put in the simplest terms, if no one bought anything offered that way, they would make literally $0 offering things that way, and they would stop doing so permanently.

Of course, we know that isn’t the case. In fact, we can surmise from the fact that they have used this model of item delivery multiple times (though NOT, it must be noted, every time) that it is likely quite successful from a fiscal perspective.

I imagine that the monetization logic is something along the lines of: offering an item outright in the shop is guaranteed to produce x amount of $ from gem purchases per customer to buy that item outright, whereas offering items through the allure of random chance will produce a highly variable amount of $ per customer, based on their desire for the item, their tolerance for bad results, their real-life financial status, etc.

If a handful of players are willing to simply spend as much as they must until they get the item they desire (and I should not need to tell you the abject truth- these people exist), this makes up for the “lost sales” of a dozen or even many more people had they offered the item as a straight sale.

Furthermore, if another group of players isn’t willing to spend as much as they must, but is willing to spend a fixed amount to try- say, $20- and then stop, whether or not they got what they wanted- the $20 is the same from the store’s perspective as though they had spent it on outright purchases. If this group then comes to the forums and complains about how awful the RNG is, which do you think is weighted more heavily: the complaints voiced after the fact, or the $20 already spent?

No, this is going to continue, because it works. They wouldn’t do it if it didn’t. You can’t let the fact that a lot of people here are voicing their discontent keep you from acknowledging what’s going on.

I don’t like RNG. You don’t either. On an individual level, no one should. But that isn’t how this works. We are talking volumes of hundreds of thousands of transactions. Talking about how bad it is here will not alter its use as long as the accompanying actual player behavior with regard to the store contrasts with those complaints.

I suppose that the most sensible thing to do in terms of being a “consumer making your voice heard” would be to organize some sort of community boycott of anything delivered through RNG in the gem store. With enough people committing to such a boycott (and not lying about their own in-game habits), you might make enough of a financial dent to change ArenaNet’s approach somewhat.

For my part, I really don’t care. I’ll convert a bit of gold and buy a handful of crates; probably get nothing good but be pleasantly surprised if I do. It doesn’t begin to frustrate me.

Why? Because there are, and will always be lots of things in this game that I want but can’t easily get. In this case, if someone spends all the money that I’m not willing to spend for the chance, it ultimately benefits everyone in the end.

The more money they make the better it is for every player, despite the fact that their methods of making money might not be enjoyable to any single player.

That’s a good post, Hawkian. It’s stuff I knew but never put together in my mind.

I mean I REALLY don’t like this RNG stuff. Drives me mad. I like the new skins, I want a new skin but I’m not willing to gamble to get a new skin. Yeah, that’s annoying.

On the other hand, there are probably tons of players used to this type of transaction who don’t think twice. Somehow, it’s wrong to me that they don’t think twice…like they should know better, or it should be obvious…but it’s not to lots of people.

So many MMOs have worse cash shops than Guild Wars 2. WoW has a cosmetics only cash shop, in addition to charging a monthly fee for 8 million people.

How is any game ever going to compete if they don’t have an influx of money to pay devs to continually make new content?

The whole thing just rubs me the wrong way.

What i hate is,is that some people think if they see someone with a fused weapen they bought it with real money and that is not alway’s true,

i got lucky while lvling an alt, a key dropped while doing my storyline.I putt it on my bank,I go to my main and open a blc with it.There it was totally unexpected a ticket for fused weapens,i chose the rifle;) because… well i don’t see many of them,

Here’s a screenie:)

Vayne.8563:

That’s a good post, Hawkian. It’s stuff I knew but never put together in my mind.

I mean I REALLY don’t like this RNG stuff. Drives me mad. I like the new skins, I want a new skin but I’m not willing to gamble to get a new skin. Yeah, that’s annoying.

On the other hand, there are probably tons of players used to this type of transaction who don’t think twice. Somehow, it’s wrong to me that they don’t think twice…like they should know better, or it should be obvious…but it’s not to lots of people.

I don’t like it at all either. I mean, again, on an individual level no one should.

To employ the popular analogy of gambling (this is not actual gambling, by the way, but I do not have any desire to get into that at the moment)…

It’s like an individual sitting at the slot machines and complaining about how low his odds of winning are, while he and 300 around him continue to pop in quarters every few seconds. Yes, of course you’re wasting money. Yes, of course the odds are atrocious. You should just know better, come on!!!

But obviously there’s nothing enticing about it, since as we all know, casinos are not profitable establishments and Las Vegas as an institution has no reason to continue offering slot machines.

Now, up until this point in my analogy I’d still simply prefer that everyone stop putting in quarters. They’re just hurting themselves. There’s no net benefit to themselves, let alone the other people playing slots, let alone the other people in the casino who aren’t gambling.

But here’s where the comparison diverges completely. It would be as though the casino was offering me, someone who isn’t gambling or really spending much money on anything at all, a valuable and enjoyable service. And the quality of that service went up and had the chance to last longer the more money the casino made. Now I look back at the people in the rows of slots and say, “Yeah! Go for it! I’m sure next time you’ll hit the jackpot!”

Hawkian.6580:

Vayne.8563:

That’s a good post, Hawkian. It’s stuff I knew but never put together in my mind.

I mean I REALLY don’t like this RNG stuff. Drives me mad. I like the new skins, I want a new skin but I’m not willing to gamble to get a new skin. Yeah, that’s annoying.

On the other hand, there are probably tons of players used to this type of transaction who don’t think twice. Somehow, it’s wrong to me that they don’t think twice…like they should know better, or it should be obvious…but it’s not to lots of people.

I don’t like it at all either. I mean, again, on an individual level no one should.

To employ the popular analogy of gambling (this is not actual gambling, by the way, but I do not have any desire to get into that at the moment)…

It’s like an individual sitting at the slot machines and complaining about how low his odds of winning are, while he and 300 around him continue to pop in quarters every few seconds. Yes, of course you’re wasting money. Yes, of course the odds are atrocious. You should just know better, come on!!!

But obviously there’s nothing enticing about it, since as we all know, casinos are not profitable establishments and Las Vegas as an institution has no reason to continue offering slot machines.

Now, up until this point in my analogy I’d still simply prefer that everyone stop putting in quarters. They’re just hurting themselves. There’s no net benefit to themselves, let alone the other people playing slots, let alone the other people in the casino who aren’t gambling.

But here’s where the comparison diverges completely. It would be as though the casino was offering me, someone who isn’t gambling or really spending much money on anything at all, a valuable and enjoyable service. And the quality of that service went up and had the chance to last longer the more money the casino made. Now I look back at the people in the rows of slots and say, “Yeah! Go for it! I’m sure next time you’ll hit the jackpot!”

I guess, while it does benefit the game over all, it also hurts the game’s image. At least it does to me. I’m not happy knowing this goes on in a game I support.

On the other hand, I don’t like any other MMOs even ones with subscriptions and no cash shop. Nor do I suspect any other MMO in the near future is coming out that has a better cash shop.

I’m sooooo conflicted. lol

I’m not convinced it hurts the game’s image in a notable way. I think for it to impact the game’s image we’d have to see it translate to a decline in either sales or active population. Not, by the way, forum activity. :P

Consider how different the scenario would be if:
-You could purchase items with statistical superiority or gameplay alterations
-You could not purchase gems with gold
-Unique skins, items, and rewards were never offered outside of the Gem shop (I’d underscore the two completely new back items that literally every player in the game can get with about an hour’s worth of effort and no RNG)

Those factors not being true: of course it’s still annoying, but will it make the difference between playing and not playing for the average customer?

I’m sure we could find someone here on the forums that quit because of it, and another person who wouldn’t recommend the game to someone else because of it. There are other types of people as well. Would you, Vayne, avoid recommending this game to someone because of the items offered in RNG chests? I woudn’t. It wouldn’t even be in the top 10 things I’d mention about the game.

And of course, you’re under no obligation to support them. The best thing you can do to encourage ArenaNet not to offer items this way is simply not buy gems. But I made peace a long time ago with the fact that other people are going to. The allure is too strong.

Honestly, who didn’t see all this rng skins bull coming sooner or later?
The moment i knew they hired a person from Nexon i was convinced that something like this would happen. Not surprised, really.

The progression in this game is cosmetic. Locking that progression behind rng is stupid and it doesn’t interest me one bit. Dungeon skins aren’t locked behind rng, we can pick the ones we want and it works perfectly.

Let people buy the exact skins they want and all will be fine.

Vol.5241:

Valar Morghulis.7049:

Phaedryn.3698:

Penguin.5197:

1200 gems? Thats 15 dollars >.> Is it just me or are the prices going up?

Everything about GW2 is turning into a cash grab…I am rapidly approaching the “uninstall” point.

Everything? really? Or do you mean random “skins” that do absolutely nothing game-wise? A chance to get one can be purchased with cash, gold or looted from mobs… I see no difference then any other MMO I have played other than they offer more ways to get them and they are not needed in the least.

You people crack me up IT’S A SKIN! lol

OHNOES RandomPlayer01 has a different looking sword and I wants it! /quit /forumwhine /threatenuninstall

Remember before release how everyone was all happy that GW2 would have stuff that would be sold as novelty, and nothing would be pay to win?

Well look now, there are people complaining for the sake of complaining because they can’t get their novelty stuff for free or for cheap.

its not a price issue its

1. Its Temporary Content
2. Random Chance of obtaining

simply sell them like Rox and Braham’s gear and everyone would be happy to buy
even more than 1 item .

Rezzet.3614:

its not a price issue its

1. Its Temporary Content
2. Random Chance of obtaining

simply sell them like Rox and Braham’s gear and everyone would be happy to buy
even more than 1 item .

I’m amazed that people can’t or won’t understand the argument against limited items being rng.

No Walking.6349:

Remember when cool items used to cost time, and not money… Glad to see all the people running around with these weapons and know that they spent no effort to get them at all, but instead just opened their wallet.

That is one big assumption you have just made.

(1) It takes time and effort to acquire enough in-game gold to purchase keys.
(2) Even if they purchased keys with real money, it also takes time and effort to earn the real money in real life.

(3) If they purchased chests from TP, instead of getting chests from random drop, with either gold or gem, they actually had the courage to take the big risk of getting nothing (i.e., RNG). That, my friend, is also an effort.

I knew someone who opened 10 BL chests and received two fused weapon tickets and an Abyss dye. I also knew someone who opened 87 BL chests and received nothing.

Now you gotta ask yourself one question: do you have what it takes to open these chests?

Lastly, my question to you is rather simple: what is your effort in getting a new weapon skin? Remember, coming to the forum to post an useless topic will not get you anywhere near a new weapon skin.

Molonlabe.3761:

I knew someone who opened 10 BL chests and received two fused weapon tickets and an Abyss dye. I also knew someone who opened 87 BL chests and received nothing.

Assuming this anecdote is true, and assuming they paid cash for the gems instead of converting gold (a big assumption, I’ll admit) it perfectly illustrates the case against rng items. Person B was clearly willing to spend the cash to get a cosmetic item. But because rng – something that is completely beyond a player’s control – was not favorable to them, they had to go without something they obviously wanted.

Had the item in question simply been offered in the Gem Shop straight up, players would have spent the money to buy it. They’d have the item they wanted. And ArenaNet would have their money. I’m sure rng is profitable, otherwise they ANet wouldn’t be doing it. But I’m also sure they’d make money without it; and they’d do so without jading so many of their players.

The problem is, any random dubai person can create an account → create a lvl 1 char → buy a Legendary. That’s how stupid it is. There’s is no point in getting a cool weapon, you are better of going to work for 3 hours instead of spending XXX hours in the game. Playing this game doesn’t mean anything, you buy it all with money. THAT’S NOT HOW GW1 WAS LIKE. You needed effort and practice to do these dungeons with organised groups and when you succesfuly did the dungeon you had a chance to get an epic drop. I miss that soooo much.

CoRtex.2157:

The problem is, any random dubai person can create an account -> create a lvl 1 char -> buy a Legendary. That’s how stupid it is. There’s is no point in getting a cool weapon, you are better of going to work for 3 hours instead of spending XXX hours in the game. Playing this game doesn’t mean anything, you buy it all with money. THAT’S NOT HOW GW1 WAS LIKE. You needed effort and practice to do these dungeons with organised groups and when you succesfuly did the dungeon you had a chance to get an epic drop. I miss that soooo much.

You know that these specific skins at the moment are bought with real life money. Not every other skin in-game that’s obtainable through playing the game. The dungeons in GW1 took effort until someone found a solo build and they could solo them, then a nerf happened, then another build was figured out, so on and so on. There’s much more to obtain then just the current skins -_-

Btw, why is this type of gambling legal? Well because, the money you putted in is gone. You won’t get any money back from the game. So it’s not gambling, more like buying. But what you buy is unknown. = RNG.

Not a whole lot of what was said there has any bearing on reality, but I just wanted to confirm that yes, if faced with the choice, you are better off going to work for 3 hours than playing a videogame.

New Character Yo.6487:

CoRtex.2157:

The problem is, any random dubai person can create an account -> create a lvl 1 char -> buy a Legendary. That’s how stupid it is. There’s is no point in getting a cool weapon, you are better of going to work for 3 hours instead of spending XXX hours in the game. Playing this game doesn’t mean anything, you buy it all with money. THAT’S NOT HOW GW1 WAS LIKE. You needed effort and practice to do these dungeons with organised groups and when you succesfuly did the dungeon you had a chance to get an epic drop. I miss that soooo much.

You know that these specific skins at the moment are bought with real life money. Not every other skin in-game that’s obtainable through playing the game. The dungeons in GW1 took effort until someone found a solo build and they could solo them, then a nerf happened, then another build was figured out, so on and so on. There’s much more to obtain then just the current skins -_-

I can’t remember ANY SOLO build that could complete UW, FOW, SoO, Bogroots, VSF, DoA,… They could only solo parts of it, so they didn’t get any chance on these rare weapon skins. And if there was a solo build it would take them 10x longer than a party. So solo’ing would get u 10x less chance to get the drop.

darkace.8925:

Molonlabe.3761:

I knew someone who opened 10 BL chests and received two fused weapon tickets and an Abyss dye. I also knew someone who opened 87 BL chests and received nothing.

Assuming this anecdote is true, and assuming they paid cash for the gems instead of converting gold (a big assumption, I’ll admit) it perfectly illustrates the case against rng items. Person B was clearly willing to spend the cash to get a cosmetic item. But because rng – something that is completely beyond a player’s control – was not favorable to them, they had to go without something they obviously wanted.

RNG = Luck.

Let me put it this way:

Person A purchase ONE lottery ticket and won millions of dollars.
Person B purchased an entire lot of lottery tickets and won nothing.

Because luck – something that is completely beyond anyone’s control – was not favorable to everyone. Therefore, lots of people have to go without something they obviously wanted.

Of course, are you going to ask the U.S. government to make lottery “fair” to everyone?

On a more serious note: If everyone owns the same amount of money, then money will have zero value. If everyone owns a Lamborghini, then the value of Lamborghini would drop significantly.

Same rule applies to the in-game item: If these weapon skins weren’t so rare, how many people would actually purchase them? After all, once it becomes “common”, people who are not determined to get them will most likely lose interest immediately.

Molonlabe.3761:

darkace.8925:

Molonlabe.3761:

I knew someone who opened 10 BL chests and received two fused weapon tickets and an Abyss dye. I also knew someone who opened 87 BL chests and received nothing.

Assuming this anecdote is true, and assuming they paid cash for the gems instead of converting gold (a big assumption, I’ll admit) it perfectly illustrates the case against rng items. Person B was clearly willing to spend the cash to get a cosmetic item. But because rng – something that is completely beyond a player’s control – was not favorable to them, they had to go without something they obviously wanted.

RNG = Luck.

Let me put it this way:

Person A purchase ONE lottery ticket and won millions of dollars.
Person B purchased an entire lot of lottery tickets and won nothing.

Because luck – something that is completely beyond anyone’s control – was not favorable to everyone. Therefore, lots of people have to go without something they obviously wanted.

This isn’t the lottery. It’s not a casino. It’s a video game. If someone wants an item, why should he/she be denied that item because of luck? If someone is willing to put forth the effort in-game or is willing to spend cash in a cash shop to obtain an item, should that not be enough?

Remember, games are supposed to be fun. What’s fun about being told “you can’t have the items you want because you weren’t lucky enough”? We’re not talking about a lack of effort, and we’re not talking about an unwillingness to spend money; we’re talking about bad luck – in a video game – preventing one from getting the items they want.

darkace.8925:

Molonlabe.3761:

darkace.8925:

Molonlabe.3761:

I knew someone who opened 10 BL chests and received two fused weapon tickets and an Abyss dye. I also knew someone who opened 87 BL chests and received nothing.

Assuming this anecdote is true, and assuming they paid cash for the gems instead of converting gold (a big assumption, I’ll admit) it perfectly illustrates the case against rng items. Person B was clearly willing to spend the cash to get a cosmetic item. But because rng – something that is completely beyond a player’s control – was not favorable to them, they had to go without something they obviously wanted.

RNG = Luck.

Let me put it this way:

Person A purchase ONE lottery ticket and won millions of dollars.
Person B purchased an entire lot of lottery tickets and won nothing.

Because luck – something that is completely beyond anyone’s control – was not favorable to everyone. Therefore, lots of people have to go without something they obviously wanted.

This isn’t the lottery. It’s not a casino. It’s a video game. If someone wants an item, why should he/she be denied that item because of luck? If someone is willing to put forth the effort in-game or is willing to spend cash in a cash shop to obtain an item, should that not be enough?

Remember, games are supposed to be fun. What’s fun about being told “you can’t have the items you want because you weren’t lucky enough”? We’re not talking about a lack of effort, and we’re not talking about an unwillingness to spend money; we’re talking about bad luck – in a video game – preventing one from getting the items they want.

And for companies, games aren’t meant to be fun. They’re meant to make money.

Well, let me put it this way. If a company thinks that it does not have to treat me in a fair and proper way by giving me a clear price for an item, they are not very interested in my money, so they wont get it from me.

Vol.5241:

And for companies, games aren’t meant to be fun. They’re meant to make money.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but ArenaNet made money from their cash shop in Guild Wars without rng. Am I wrong? If not, doesn’t it stand to reason they’d be able to make money from the cash shop in Guild Wars 2 without rng?

Vol.5241:

darkace.8925:

Molonlabe.3761:

darkace.8925:

Molonlabe.3761:

I knew someone who opened 10 BL chests and received two fused weapon tickets and an Abyss dye. I also knew someone who opened 87 BL chests and received nothing.

Assuming this anecdote is true, and assuming they paid cash for the gems instead of converting gold (a big assumption, I’ll admit) it perfectly illustrates the case against rng items. Person B was clearly willing to spend the cash to get a cosmetic item. But because rng – something that is completely beyond a player’s control – was not favorable to them, they had to go without something they obviously wanted.

RNG = Luck.

Let me put it this way:

Person A purchase ONE lottery ticket and won millions of dollars.
Person B purchased an entire lot of lottery tickets and won nothing.

Because luck – something that is completely beyond anyone’s control – was not favorable to everyone. Therefore, lots of people have to go without something they obviously wanted.

This isn’t the lottery. It’s not a casino. It’s a video game. If someone wants an item, why should he/she be denied that item because of luck? If someone is willing to put forth the effort in-game or is willing to spend cash in a cash shop to obtain an item, should that not be enough?

Remember, games are supposed to be fun. What’s fun about being told “you can’t have the items you want because you weren’t lucky enough”? We’re not talking about a lack of effort, and we’re not talking about an unwillingness to spend money; we’re talking about bad luck – in a video game – preventing one from getting the items they want.

And for companies, games aren’t meant to be fun. They’re meant to make money.

How refreshing. A post that has common sense. Good for you Vol!

I hope this thread gets locked down soon. How many posts can you have where people can’t grasp simple concepts?

1. Rare – Is something not everyone can get or have. Not many of them. Not likely to be found. Very few exists.
2. Whiner – Person who says things like, “They have something I want so I should get one too.”
3. Grasp of Reality – There is only one Mona Lisa. Not everyone gets to have one. Deal with it.
4. There is a real life company that makes and supports Guild Wars 2. They do this to make money, not cater to you. If they do not make money on Guild Wars 2, it will go away and no one will get any further skins or anything else for that matter.
5. If you don’t like it, quit playing and go somewhere else.

Having a debate on personal philosophies regarding RNG are fine and all, as long as we all realize anet won’t and shouldn’t care. What they care about is the number of crates they sell. If the majority of the players really do feel that the crates are a rip off, then they won’t sell, and anet will use new business models going forward. If they sell, however, they they are completely justified in using RNG, however BS you may personally find it – the majority will have spoken with their wallets.

Instead of blaming anet, point the finger at the real culprits – the consumers. If you actually want to get rid of this type of RNG, get people informed about the purchases their making. Put some statistics right under their noses. Give them sound arguments. If the crates still get bought? Then we have to concede that anet has every right to supply what there is demand for.

RNG obviously brings in more profit than a flat price for the skins.

This “companies exist to make money” argument is making me sick. Just because a company exists to make money does not mean it should have to rely on rng lotteries to make money. Steam, Origins, Planetside2, and Riot don’t even have the word “chance” ever mentioned anywhere in their respective cash shops or library stores.
So gw2 being reliant on rng is complete bullkitten.

I’m willing to bet if they sold one skin a piece for a reasonable rate on the gem store they could easily mimic(or get close to) a subscription fee per month if they just sold skins on the gem store. The effect is: still making money while on top of that making satisfied customers. You know the people supporting the game cause kitten off customers is the greatest business model ever.

Not to mention the cost of hiring an artist to make animations and skins for weapons is extremely cheap if they all follow the same theme after one idea is created.

guys this is better than subscription fees. and pearl weapons look cool.

CoRtex.2157:

The problem is, any random dubai person can create an account -> create a lvl 1 char -> buy a Legendary. That’s how stupid it is. There’s is no point in getting a cool weapon, you are better of going to work for 3 hours instead of spending XXX hours in the game. Playing this game doesn’t mean anything, you buy it all with money. THAT’S NOT HOW GW1 WAS LIKE. You needed effort and practice to do these dungeons with organised groups and when you succesfuly did the dungeon you had a chance to get an epic drop. I miss that soooo much.

Do you mean NO ONE in Guild Wars 1 bought gold (illegally) and bought the mats to make obby armor? No one in Guild Wars 1 paid for runs to beat games (with gold that could have been bought the same way?). Do you really think every single person in Guild Wars 1 who had a tormented weapon beat DOA? Because I don’t.

In fact, I had a tormented weapon BEFORE I beat DOA. You could have just about everything in Guild Wars 1, and I mean just about everything by feather farming. You can miss Guild Wars 1 all you want, but at least be honest about it.

Vol.5241:

And for companies, games aren’t meant to be fun. They’re meant to make money.

In terms of a game fun=money. If a game is not fun it will not sell as well as a game that is fun. The more people that find it fun the more people that are likely to spend money on it….ie it is in the best interest of a game company to make their games as fun as they can and they know this.

Companies exist to make money is making you sick? What can’t you grasp with the fact that it is how every business works. Businesses are only in existence to make money in any way they see fit. Businesses that go into “business” without that goal are called non-profit organisations, or charity, and I can assure you NCSoft, ANet, whatever company you like to bring forward that backs or creates Guild wars would never go by that title.

That is simply because they are overall out to make a profit. Whether you think that’s acceptable or not is your choice but unfortunately for you it is the way of the world and there is no escaping it. Whether you like it or not, every single profitable business is only in it for the money. The workers for said company may be in it for the fun and do the best they can, hell, they might not even agree with the RNG themselves. But at the end of the day it is not down to every worker what goes in the gem store, and overall goes back to management who have got to their position by meeting goals – making money.

Okay this argument has gone a long way to changing my mind (not about not liking RNG) but not seeing it as quite as bad as I had.

The real issue here isn’t Anet themselves, but who Anet has to compete with to keep this game viable. Box sales alone are never going to make that happen. Would just selling the item in the trading post? I don’t know.

At any rate, I’m still not going to buy chests, because I know if I do and don’t get any of the new weapon skins it will simply annoy me. I have no use for most of the other stuff in them and don’t want to waste my money on stuff I’m not likely to get.

It’s not that I don’t have the money….it’s that no skin is worth $100 to me.

Vayne.8563:

The real issue here isn’t Anet themselves, but who Anet has to compete with to keep this game viable. Box sales alone are never going to make that happen. Would just selling the item in the trading post? I don’t know.

If it was enough to fund this game’s development, I don’t see why it wouldn’t be enough to keep it running.

darkace.8925:

Vayne.8563:

The real issue here isn’t Anet themselves, but who Anet has to compete with to keep this game viable. Box sales alone are never going to make that happen. Would just selling the item in the trading post? I don’t know.

If it was enough to fund this game’s development, I don’t see why it wouldn’t be enough to keep it running.

Because in order for an MMORPG (not a game an MMO) to be competitive today, it has to have massive amounts of content. This is 8 years after the release of Prophecies. People’s attention spans are shorter than ever. Either a game gives them something to do r they find a game that does.

And the budget required for that is far higher than the budget Guild Wars 1 ever had. The size of the staff is five times larger (or more). The servers are no doubt more expensive. We know Anet moved to bigger headquarters. I’d assume the rent is higher. The content updates are much much faster (which is necessary in today’s world).

Anet isn’t competing against nothing but subscription games anymore. They’re competing against free to play games like DDO, Lotro and others. And they’re competing against subscription games, or games that had subscriptions for periods of time or still have optional subscriptions. This means that they have to produce content, if not as fast as those games, almost as fast…or they lose part of the player base.

Let me tell you, there’s not much worse than being part of an MMO was a seriously declining player base. More and more people leave, open world stuff becomes impossible to do…the game dies.

I’d love it if this weren’t the case…but unfortunately it is. In order for ANY MMO to be successful today they have to compete with other MMOs and that means they need to have enough cash to do that.

Jaall.3420:

Companies exist to make money is making you sick? What can’t you grasp with the fact that it is how every business works. Businesses are only in existence to make money in any way they see fit. Businesses that go into “business” without that goal are called non-profit organisations, or charity, and I can assure you NCSoft, ANet, whatever company you like to bring forward that backs or creates Guild wars would never go by that title.

That is simply because they are overall out to make a profit. Whether you think that’s acceptable or not is your choice but unfortunately for you it is the way of the world and there is no escaping it. Whether you like it or not, every single profitable business is only in it for the money. The workers for said company may be in it for the fun and do the best they can, hell, they might not even agree with the RNG themselves. But at the end of the day it is not down to every worker what goes in the gem store, and overall goes back to management who have got to their position by meeting goals – making money.

ANY company everywhere in the world has to make money but does that mean it is acceptable to disguise a price for an item? I have no Problem EVER if an item has a higher price than I can afford. Bad luck. But not to give the real price of an item by hiding it behind RNG is just hoping that I’m dumb enough to fall for it.

Pirlipat.2479:

Jaall.3420:

Companies exist to make money is making you sick? What can’t you grasp with the fact that it is how every business works. Businesses are only in existence to make money in any way they see fit. Businesses that go into “business” without that goal are called non-profit organisations, or charity, and I can assure you NCSoft, ANet, whatever company you like to bring forward that backs or creates Guild wars would never go by that title.

That is simply because they are overall out to make a profit. Whether you think that’s acceptable or not is your choice but unfortunately for you it is the way of the world and there is no escaping it. Whether you like it or not, every single profitable business is only in it for the money. The workers for said company may be in it for the fun and do the best they can, hell, they might not even agree with the RNG themselves. But at the end of the day it is not down to every worker what goes in the gem store, and overall goes back to management who have got to their position by meeting goals – making money.

ANY company everywhere in the world has to make money but does that mean it is acceptable to disguise a price for an item? I have no Problem EVER if an item has a higher price than I can afford. Bad luck. But not to give the real price of an item by hiding it behind RNG is just hoping that I’m dumb enough to fall for it.

Other than not giving an exact percentage of the chance to obtain every item in the box they do make you aware that the skins are very rare. It’s an advertising ploy used by a lot of companies, and literally thousands of companies before ANet have used it. It is not illegal to do so because they do state that it’s a very low chance, and the item isn’t at all a necessity to play the game only a cosmetic “bonus” therefore there is no need for it. The blame is on the consumers completely, but I don’t personally blame anyone. If you want to go for them then you can, but you have the choice not to. It could be 100x worse than it is trust me.

I am definitely not falling for such nonsense but it infuriates me alot.