Guild Wars 2

anzenketh.3759:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

anzenketh.3759:

That is correct they are all vague. He did not say yes it is intentional not did he say it is a bug.

I am personally suspecting it is a bug as the game files for the quest are still in the game. If it was a intentional removal players would not be able to play the story.

Okham’s Razor

Them still being in the game files is outright (indirectly) explained:

They did not alter the story placement for those characters that were already in chapter 7 or chapter 8. To quote:

If you were on the storyline pre-patch, you’ll still be on it post-patch. (Thought it might not be visible until you reach L70, since it’s in Chapter 7.)

From this very thread.

In short: you will experience no loss of the greatest fear storyline if you have reached Forging the Pact. You will experience no reordering of Orr’s plot if you have reached Temple of the Forgotten God. If you had not reach them then you will experience the change. Ergo, the files must remain in the game. This was likely done to prevent confusion (lol) over those who are in the middle of said plots – or to prevent players from missing/repeating story steps if they’re in the middle of chapter 8.

Why are you so intent on proving to me that it is not a bug and is intentional? Again the statement from Jeff stated nothing in regards to removing anything story related from the game.

Unfortunately, I also think it is intentional and not just a bug. In the battle of Fort Trinity, you have a conversation with Trehaerne at the beginning and at the end where you mention your actual “greatest fear” storyline (you know the cinematic voice acted dialogue), but these lines are now not present in the conversation, they were also cut out.

What I’m saying is that kind of happened already if you did the one with Tonn or Syska.

Yeah, this arc has always been a bit goofy since you can only take one path, but all 3 outcomes show up in the final mission. I think some of the NPC dialog is trying to fill in the holes.

You get similar mismatches if you do the Living Story without finishing your Personal Story — folks keep thinking you killed some dragon…

Seraphina.6859:

anzenketh.3759:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

anzenketh.3759:

That is correct they are all vague. He did not say yes it is intentional not did he say it is a bug.

I am personally suspecting it is a bug as the game files for the quest are still in the game. If it was a intentional removal players would not be able to play the story.

Okham’s Razor

Them still being in the game files is outright (indirectly) explained:

They did not alter the story placement for those characters that were already in chapter 7 or chapter 8. To quote:

If you were on the storyline pre-patch, you’ll still be on it post-patch. (Thought it might not be visible until you reach L70, since it’s in Chapter 7.)

From this very thread.

In short: you will experience no loss of the greatest fear storyline if you have reached Forging the Pact. You will experience no reordering of Orr’s plot if you have reached Temple of the Forgotten God. If you had not reach them then you will experience the change. Ergo, the files must remain in the game. This was likely done to prevent confusion (lol) over those who are in the middle of said plots – or to prevent players from missing/repeating story steps if they’re in the middle of chapter 8.

Why are you so intent on proving to me that it is not a bug and is intentional? Again the statement from Jeff stated nothing in regards to removing anything story related from the game.

Unfortunately, I also think it is intentional and not just a bug. In the battle of Fort Trinity, you have a conversation with Trehaerne at the beginning and at the end where you mention you actual “greatest fear” storyline (you know the cinematic voice acted dialogue), but these lines are now not present in the conversation, they were also cut out.

If it turns out this is true, I will be forced to consider the current management and those responsible for the story content the lowest of the lowest scum. There is no kittening excuse for this. None. None at all. I don’t care what kind of bullkitten forced corporate reason they come up with, it will be unacceptable. You don’t ruin an existing, well-formulated storyline – and the original team’s hard work – like this. You just don’t! There is literally nothing Anet can say or do that would make me accept this kind of massacre of the game’s core story in its current form. The ongoing absolute lack of news or official comments (it seems even Chris must go on a freaking Wyld Hunt to find out what’s going on), despite players constantly demanding such, are just increasing my suspicion that this is indeed fully intentional. And I just don’t know where this game will be heading next if this isn’t revoked despite the unanimous, outspoken outrage of the playerbase over it.

As I’ve already said before in another reply, you can’t do whatever you want to an MMO just because it is your game. If you want to do that, make a single-player, non-dynamic game. In an MMO, if you kitten on your playerbase’s wishes and needs, they’ll rightfully kitten in your wallet instead of putting money in it. It’s not rocket science.

Yeah, I never got around to playing through the entirety of Personal Story, but now I wish I had. Did Anet even give us a heads up that PS would be butchered, or was that not exciting enough to announce on their hype-blog?

I’ve always tried to defend Anet on everything, but I really can’t get behind what they did to our PS. It was the only story-related thing that made you feel important, ‘cause let’s face it, in Living Story, you’re simply an afterthought, like a lame sidekick to Destiny’s Edge 2.0.

anzenketh.3759:

Why are you so intent on proving to me that it is not a bug and is intentional? Again the statement from Jeff stated nothing in regards to removing anything story related from the game.

Because everything points to it being intentional, and if so then ArenaNet needs to know that it was a bad move.

The storyline itself was removed. That’s a pretty kitten massive bug! If it was a bug, you can bet their kitten they would have given a confirmation of such and an ETA on when it’ll show up. They always do for the major bugs. Without exception.

The fact that they haven’t shows that it isn’t a bug. That it is “working as intended.”

Konig Des Todes.2086:

anzenketh.3759:

Why are you so intent on proving to me that it is not a bug and is intentional? Again the statement from Jeff stated nothing in regards to removing anything story related from the game.

Because everything points to it being intentional, and if so then ArenaNet needs to know that it was a bad move.

The storyline itself was removed. That’s a pretty kitten massive bug! If it was a bug, you can bet their kitten they would have given a confirmation of such and an ETA on when it’ll show up. They always do for the major bugs. Without exception.

The fact that they haven’t shows that it isn’t a bug. That it is “working as intended.”

I agree. It starts to get really scary when a gaming company makes such arbitrary and illogical moves out of nowhere. I really hope Chris is coming back with some news since he’s the only one who acknowledged that people are complaining about the PS-changes.

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who has posted here. I’m glad to know I’m not alone in feeling confused and hurt about what’s going on right now. It’s good to not feel alone at least. It means a lot to me to see all of your thoughts, comments, and ideas.

I agree with what some have said here. That it is too early to tell if this is a bug or a deliberate and intentional choice. I will repeat this (this is a hint related to possible damage control) right now, it is still too early for us to tell whether this happened on purpose because someone thought it was a good idea, or if it is merely one of the kinds of bugs that can happen all too often when making a big game-changing release.

…meaning, that if the official position became, regardless of what it was before, that this is an unintentional bug that will be reverted and put back like it was before, I think a lot of people who have posted in this thread would have some faith and goodwill restored. (clears throat) think I was subtle enough, everyone?

I know it’s hard to make a game, and it’s hard to reconcile metrics versus what the players tell you. I really do appreciate everything that the makers of this game pour into it, and I do know that they are trying (very hard) because, heck, it’s your job to sell your product and maintain a playerbase, and word-of-mouth is so important for spreading a game’s popularity after the initial release has happened.

As a loyal Guild Wars fan who wants only to see the continued success of this game, and who truly does love this game, I am willing to say that I can put this incident behind me and will be willing to 100% believe an official statement that this was always just a bug, and that it will be reverted and restored. (I’m sure a couple angry posts below this are going to say they aren’t willing, etc., but think about it, everyone, wouldn’t it be best if this “bug” were “fixed” regardless of why you think it cropped up in the first place?). It might be best for the makers and for all the fans, all at the same time.

Signed,
Still a loyal Guild Wars fan who has faith that this company can still do the right thing

I doubt this removal of certain quests was intentional. If it were, wouldn’t the official wiki update this accordingly? It’s been a couple of days since the update came out, and all. Chris did say he would get back to us real soon on this matter, so at the very least they are getting to the bottom of this.

I can also confirm that the greatest fear storyline does not show up for characters who were not already on those steps. I had a character stopped at Battle of Claw Island prior to the patch, so I just went from there all the way to Victory or Death, and the fear quests never happened. I was able to choose a fear at the end of A Light in the Darkness, and I chose the dishonored/Syska path. But at the beginning of Temple of the Forgotten God, Trahearne was talking about Tonn and Ceera instead, so it seems your choice no longer matters and is probably just obsolete text that wasn’t removed.

The cuts seem like a huge waste of work and content, and the re-ordering of steps creates a ton of continuity issues and ridiculous situations within the story. I’m very disappointed and baffled by these changes, and I hope they’ll be reverted.

A great chunk of the content from starter zones – removed, check.
A great chunk of content from the personal story – removed, check.
Redefining the meaning of a ‘feature pack’ – check.

Asmodeus.5782:

A great chunk of the content from starter zones – removed, check.
A great chunk of content from the personal story – removed, check.
Redefining the meaning of a ‘feature pack’ – check.

I can ignore the leveling, but that has really dissapointment to the point where, if its not “fixed” before Halloween, im out of this game for good….

Witch is sad, i liked some parts of this feature pack….

I don’t have much to say which hasn’t already been said, but I want to add my voice to the crowd.

ArenaNet, exchanging chapters 7 and 8 has left your story a complete mess, with cause following effect, dialogue referring to future events and lesser achievements (beating the Eye and Mouth, pushing the lines to Arah) following greater ones (beating the Sovereign Eye and cleansing Orr).

The removal of supposedly permanent content which was considered by some to be the best part of the story and had in some cases a great effect on it is completely unacceptable. You’ve removed a part of your content for no known reason, a part we expected to enjoy for many years to come, and left a gaping hole in its place.

The end Personal Story is a tangled, nonsensical mess thanks to this update. Please, ArenaNet, in the name of the Six True Gods, do the right thing and revert the changes to the Personal Story’s narrative.

SlayerGT.6805:

If it turns out this is true, I will be forced to consider the current management and those responsible for the story content the lowest of the lowest scum. There is no kittening excuse for this. None. None at all. I don’t care what kind of bullkitten forced corporate reason they come up with, it will be unacceptable. You don’t ruin an existing, well-formulated storyline – and the original team’s hard work – like this.

Oh. My. Kormir.

. . . you said that with a straight face, “well-formulated storyline”.

I know I defend a lot of things about the storyline (mostly how Trahearne doesn’t gloryhound as much as people want to insist he does) but I don’t defend it as well-formulated.

It wasn’t. The story needed about another hour to set properly and then get served to the consumers. Its pacing was bad, characters came and went with no clue what they were doing after you left them behind, and the only way to have it make sense is to consider all PS elements . . . at the same time . . . being concurrently happening through the slaying of Zhaitan.

It needed / needs some revision even now, but the problem with doing so is well-illustrated in how many people have flipped their tables over removing even one part of the story.

As I’ve already said before in another reply, you can’t do whatever you want to an MMO just because it is your game.

Sigh. Yes, you can. They are actually, not figuratively, but actually the only people who have the right to say what goes in or comes out when it comes to their game. We do not own any part of the game or the story. They can change anything they wish at any time, that is their right by holding the copyright to the IP.

In an MMO, if you kitten on your playerbase’s wishes and needs, they’ll rightfully kitten in your wallet instead of putting money in it. It’s not rocket science.

And that is your right as a consumer to not patronize them anymore. Just know it’s never really worked when people tried it. George Lucas, Michael Bay, Berman & Braga . . . didn’t stop them from making a mess of the three (or four) major IPs they were entrusted with.

It saddens me greatly that story was removed, but it makes me happy to see that I’m not the only one passionate about this. Hopeful, ANet will see that the story MATTERS to us players, and then do the right thing and revert all the changes.

Thia.4891:

It saddens me greatly that story was removed, but it makes me happy to see that I’m not the only one passionate about this. Hopeful, ANet will see that the story MATTERS to us players, and then do the right thing and revert all the changes.

I’d rather they sit down with the chapters, two pots of coffee, and figure out how to smooth it out even if it means cutting things or having to go beg VAs to get back in the studio to shoot more content and adding things.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Thia.4891:

It saddens me greatly that story was removed, but it makes me happy to see that I’m not the only one passionate about this. Hopeful, ANet will see that the story MATTERS to us players, and then do the right thing and revert all the changes.

I’d rather they sit down with the chapters, two pots of coffee, and figure out how to smooth it out even if it means cutting things or having to go beg VAs to get back in the studio to shoot more content and adding things.

I don’t understand why people were so attached to the Fear storylines. They weren’t all that impressive. Only one of them had any real value to the story as a legitimate threat. The other two felt entirely tacked on and super rushed.

Apatia swims around and gets captured. Or she goes for the caravan, gets captured, and you do all the work to accomplish the mission without her anyways. She literally accomplished the fewest things in the story arc she appears in of anyone in the entire game. Faren is more useful and memorable than Apatia.

Tonn’s story just had no closure. It’s a buddy cop drama where you have to sit through a bunch of dad jokes, put together a special explosive to accomplish the same effect as a single trebuchet attack on Claw Island, and then he just vanishes. Dead, apparently. From the explosion? From the Krait? Did the undead get him? Who knows? He’s just dead now. How is that heartbreaking? It’s just confusing.

If they actually want to rework the fear storylines and make them relevant, then by all means, but I’m certainly not torn up about losing either of those two.

I have the feeling that the soonest we can expect this actually fixed is the same “feature pack” where they will try to improve the original PS with complete replayability, LS season 2 archivement system, improved storytelling, improved cutscenes and finally an improved Zhaitan fight.

Meaning probably never.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

SlayerGT.6805:

If it turns out this is true, I will be forced to consider the current management and those responsible for the story content the lowest of the lowest scum. There is no kittening excuse for this. None. None at all. I don’t care what kind of bullkitten forced corporate reason they come up with, it will be unacceptable. You don’t ruin an existing, well-formulated storyline – and the original team’s hard work – like this.

Oh. My. Kormir.

. . . you said that with a straight face, “well-formulated storyline”.

I know I defend a lot of things about the storyline (mostly how Trahearne doesn’t gloryhound as much as people want to insist he does) but I don’t defend it as well-formulated.

It wasn’t. The story needed about another hour to set properly and then get served to the consumers. Its pacing was bad, characters came and went with no clue what they were doing after you left them behind, and the only way to have it make sense is to consider all PS elements . . . at the same time . . . being concurrently happening through the slaying of Zhaitan.

It needed / needs some revision even now, but the problem with doing so is well-illustrated in how many people have flipped their tables over removing even one part of the story.

As I’ve already said before in another reply, you can’t do whatever you want to an MMO just because it is your game.

Sigh. Yes, you can. They are actually, not figuratively, but actually the only people who have the right to say what goes in or comes out when it comes to their game. We do not own any part of the game or the story. They can change anything they wish at any time, that is their right by holding the copyright to the IP.

In an MMO, if you kitten on your playerbase’s wishes and needs, they’ll rightfully kitten in your wallet instead of putting money in it. It’s not rocket science.

And that is your right as a consumer to not patronize them anymore. Just know it’s never really worked when people tried it. George Lucas, Michael Bay, Berman & Braga . . . didn’t stop them from making a mess of the three (or four) major IPs they were entrusted with.

By well-formulated I meant at least coherent and somewhat engaging. I did not say it was a masterpiece, I meant it was a story that I could make sense of and relate to, and that worked for most people. If it hadn’t, they wouldn’t be complaining this much, would they. What it currently has become is kittening chaos.

It does need revision, but it needs to be more, not less. I think anyone with half a brain could realize that.

Yes, they can do whatever they want, but if you read the dev comments on the level gating section of the update, they specifically state that they wanted to increase player retention with the changes, old and new alike (although focusing on the new). Well, this kittening kitten right here is doing the exact opposite. And then it turns out no, you can’t do whatever you want, because if you kitten it up enough, your players go away. Because MMO-s require a constant playerbase to survive, unlike movies. If a movie you expect to be great turns out to be total kitten, you’ve still paid at least once to watch it and you can’t do anything about it. I’m sorry, but your comparison is not entirely valid. Not patronizing might never have worked with movies, books or any such things, especially considering how much wider an audience these other media still have over games and their creators can afford to lose a few hundred thousand fans with the occasional crappy release. Guild Wars 2 however depends on consistent satisfaction of its players to keep them buying from the gemstore, and good reputation and word-of-mouth to attract new players, who in turn stay to buy from the gemstore. Since there are no expansions as of yet, it won’t keep making money if this doesn’t work.

Calys Teneb.7015:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Thia.4891:

It saddens me greatly that story was removed, but it makes me happy to see that I’m not the only one passionate about this. Hopeful, ANet will see that the story MATTERS to us players, and then do the right thing and revert all the changes.

I’d rather they sit down with the chapters, two pots of coffee, and figure out how to smooth it out even if it means cutting things or having to go beg VAs to get back in the studio to shoot more content and adding things.

I don’t understand why people were so attached to the Fear storylines. They weren’t all that impressive. Only one of them had any real value to the story as a legitimate threat. The other two felt entirely tacked on and super rushed.

Apatia swims around and gets captured. Or she goes for the caravan, gets captured, and you do all the work to accomplish the mission without her anyways. She literally accomplished the fewest things in the story arc she appears in of anyone in the entire game. Faren is more useful and memorable than Apatia.

Tonn’s story just had no closure. It’s a buddy cop drama where you have to sit through a bunch of dad jokes, put together a special explosive to accomplish the same effect as a single trebuchet attack on Claw Island, and then he just vanishes. Dead, apparently. From the explosion? From the Krait? Did the undead get him? Who knows? He’s just dead now. How is that heartbreaking? It’s just confusing.

If they actually want to rework the fear storylines and make them relevant, then by all means, but I’m certainly not torn up about losing either of those two.

Sadly, I have to agree with you on your critique of the Fear missions. However, I think people are attached to them (that is, at least I am) because they show how ugly kitten can happen that you have no control over. That your character is not all-powerful, and you get to see how they face absolute failure, not only how they face victory. These missions might be crappily executed, but they have moral value, and the solution is not to sweep them under the rug. If the devs care enough about them being sub-par, they should work on improving them. If it’s too much work, leave them as they were. There have been complaints obviously, but I have never heard of anyone quitting GW2 solely because “the story is meh.”

(Not to mention if they wanted to make the core story better, they should start with Trahearne.)

SlayerGT.6805:

By well-formulated I meant at least coherent and somewhat engaging. I did not say it was a masterpiece, I meant it was a story that I could make sense of and relate to, and that worked for most people. If it hadn’t, they wouldn’t be complaining this much, would they. What it currently has become is kittening chaos.

I’m not sure yet, because I haven’t got someone playing through the story yet. What I do know is . . .

It does need revision, but it needs to be more, not less. I think anyone with half a brain could realize that.

NEVER assume that. It needs to be tightened up, and removing a part might be needed. I would like to see more parts added in, but along the same lines . . . maybe that’s not the best answer. For that writer.

The problems I had with the personal story include “too many moving parts” and trimming them out or moving them to side-stories which can be done outside of the PS is probably better for the PS than leaving them in “because we need more”. What we don’t need is strictly “more”, in my observation, but “more focus”.

SlayerGT.6805:

(Not to mention if they wanted to make the core story better, they should start with Trahearne.)

No, I think what they have to do is do a better “handoff” from mentor to mentor. From the racial hero of Destiny’s Edge to the Tyrian Order Mentor, that has to be one of the weaker ones.

And then from that to not a mentor, but companion, Trahearne? That handoff was so bad it colored what many thought of the character.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

SlayerGT.6805:

By well-formulated I meant at least coherent and somewhat engaging. I did not say it was a masterpiece, I meant it was a story that I could make sense of and relate to, and that worked for most people. If it hadn’t, they wouldn’t be complaining this much, would they. What it currently has become is kittening chaos.

I’m not sure yet, because I haven’t got someone playing through the story yet. What I do know is . . .

It does need revision, but it needs to be more, not less. I think anyone with half a brain could realize that.

NEVER assume that. It needs to be tightened up, and removing a part might be needed. I would like to see more parts added in, but along the same lines . . . maybe that’s not the best answer. For that writer.

The problems I had with the personal story include “too many moving parts” and trimming them out or moving them to side-stories which can be done outside of the PS is probably better for the PS than leaving them in “because we need more”. What we don’t need is strictly “more”, in my observation, but “more focus”.

You do have a point, and I think it might not be a bad idea to introduce side storylines and move things into them, although I’m afraid that would require so much re-cutting and patching up of the main story it’s unlikely to happen (or happen in a non-catastrophic manner). What Anet still shouldn’t be doing is just dropping things and reordering the rest in a completely haphazard fashion so that it looks kinda sorta more concise if you don’t actually ever play a single mission of it and realize it is incoherent. There are also other ways to trim the story than just outright cutting out a whole block that is by the way also crucial to character development. Just off the top of my head, the Fort Concordia mission rivals some of the more lengthy GW1 missions in duration. I wouldn’t mind if that was cut shorter (not cut out, just shorter).

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

SlayerGT.6805:

(Not to mention if they wanted to make the core story better, they should start with Trahearne.)

No, I think what they have to do is do a better “handoff” from mentor to mentor. From the racial hero of Destiny’s Edge to the Tyrian Order Mentor, that has to be one of the weaker ones.

And then from that to not a mentor, but companion, Trahearne? That handoff was so bad it colored what many thought of the character.

That is also a very good point, especially the switch to Trahearne, but his lack of character development is just as bad, as he is supposed to be The Companion. I don’t want to go into too much detail as others have already written about it a thousand times before, and a thousand times better than me, but his potential to be a relatable and loveable character is barely exploited at all. As The Companion he should feel almost as equally important as the PC, but to me he is unfortunately not much more than a placeholder.

It doesn’t matter if people like or dislike the “fear” part of the story. What matters is that the removal of the fear part and shuffling around parts 7 & 8 did not improve the story. It made it worse by introducing dozens of inconsistencies. That alone is reason enough to revert it to its former state.

No one can deny that the guy who caused these changes did a sloppy, lazy job without even doublechecking if he’s messing up the timeline, creating dialogues that refer to events that don’t even exist anymore and fighting beside people that haven’t been introduced yet.

If Arenanet really wants to condense the story or make it “flow” better then revert it to the original step ASAP and try again, but this time do it a bit more professionally, thank you.

Let that be another lesson. To be fair, with every change comes different errors.

Malkavian.4516:

Let that be another lesson. To be fair, with every change comes different errors.

I could make a simple proposal which could fix the trouble of needing to keep the flow of the chapters and allow for a nigh-infinite amount: simply set a “minimum level requirement” for an arc of missions and don’t hogtie it so tightly to require going up each time.

That way you could keep “Fear” in there at the level it was at, just requiring previous parts as well.

I personally think it’s not a good idea to muck with editing a storyline for a game already released. But if you must do it, either whole replacement or addition-only. Subtracting makes a mess. But that’s my personal opinion/thoughts on it rather than me weighing what might be better/worse.

I can think of some segments I’d also nominate for “cutting” – primarily the racial sympathy one. (Or at the least, moving it to a side-attraction since it does detract from the flow of the story in places.) But that’s another topic.

Mmm as a side note, i want to put an analogy about this:

In 1985, because of the competence against Pepsi, the Coca Cola COE in that time, decided to create a new Coca Cola, and eliminate the old one.

The population answer was one: Even if they consume of the product was getting lower in that time, they went to the streets to protest. The old generations remembered how in the wars they have acces to the coke, and how they lived their history with it, this was transmitted to the new generations and the emitional need for coke to remaine the same, surfaced to the light. Finally Coca Cola returned to the old coke.

However the epilogue of this is deeper in bussines, as theres some concess about what really happened:

The COE of coke wasnt lay off for the disaster of the new coke, instead he received more share of the utilities, why?, because he was no fool, the guy made it all on porpouse, to the beggining Coca Cola dont have a unique formula, it change regionally.
The point he made, allowed coca cola tu make patent the latent emotional value of coca cola. This allowed them to differenciate with Pepsi in a way it was imposible for it to compete: Emotional value, an history with the population.

If the COE would have been a fool he would have done the change for real, in other words he would have considered the metrics they got about the Pepsis challenges (a coke and pepsi to taste, without knowing what was that, and the public chose the one they liked more); and why Pepsi won them nearly always:

Sugar was more liked at first but later was sickly sweet, so Pepsi that had more sugar was the winner, but not in the real life, just in that instant. The new coke was swetter than pepsi.

I hope anet dont stay in the fool part….

I think how good or bad the story or any characters were is irrelevant. What this boils down to is that the narrative is all messed up now, and that already-paid-for resources were removed. That’s like you paid someone else to put a pool in your backyard, then after two years you decided to drain it and fill it with cement by yourself. It might not have been the best pool, but there was nothing wrong with it. You just decided to remove it. It is a waste though. Especially since you aren’t planning on using your backyard for anything else.

I would have liked to see a dev response to this before the weekend, but perhaps someone will take the time to respond on Monday.

I wonder what will happen when they bulldoze Orr and make it a paradise and ALL the content is gone? Seriously, there has to come a time when New players will never see the original storyline of Orr. Seriously, Orr has also changed since the beginning. It’s much easier now AND has fewer spawns. This is the definition of a Living World, right? We killed the ruler of the area and it’s influence is diminishing over time until we’ll have bunnies and rainbows all over the area!

Wait, what? Why?!

Not that the Personal Story is particularly well-written either as a narrative or for its cast of characters, but at least it let you choose which way to go with a number of options and consequences. As a mechanic if nothing else that worked and gave it some replay value.

If this is really an attempt at editing from ANet, then it’s an attempt made with a blunt, rusty axe. I’m pretty sure most players could do a better job while drunk.

I have a few characters left to go through PS to finish off Zhaitan, but I don’t think I’ll bother until all this stuff gets fixed and put back in its proper order.

Yeah, I’ll admit, the PS wasn’t high art, but even if we disagree about it’s quality, I think we can all agree that these changes didn’t make it any better.

Mr Snotty Pants.3980:

Yeah, this arc has always been a bit goofy since you can only take one path, but all 3 outcomes show up in the final mission. I think some of the NPC dialog is trying to fill in the holes.

I’m fairly certain this is the case with the entire personal story. Every branch of it happens, even if your character doesn’t participate in them. Some other nameless character does it instead.

Calys Teneb.7015:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Thia.4891:

It saddens me greatly that story was removed, but it makes me happy to see that I’m not the only one passionate about this. Hopeful, ANet will see that the story MATTERS to us players, and then do the right thing and revert all the changes.

I’d rather they sit down with the chapters, two pots of coffee, and figure out how to smooth it out even if it means cutting things or having to go beg VAs to get back in the studio to shoot more content and adding things.

I don’t understand why people were so attached to the Fear storylines. They weren’t all that impressive. Only one of them had any real value to the story as a legitimate threat. The other two felt entirely tacked on and super rushed.

Apatia swims around and gets captured. Or she goes for the caravan, gets captured, and you do all the work to accomplish the mission without her anyways. She literally accomplished the fewest things in the story arc she appears in of anyone in the entire game. Faren is more useful and memorable than Apatia.

Tonn’s story just had no closure. It’s a buddy cop drama where you have to sit through a bunch of dad jokes, put together a special explosive to accomplish the same effect as a single trebuchet attack on Claw Island, and then he just vanishes. Dead, apparently. From the explosion? From the Krait? Did the undead get him? Who knows? He’s just dead now. How is that heartbreaking? It’s just confusing.

If they actually want to rework the fear storylines and make them relevant, then by all means, but I’m certainly not torn up about losing either of those two.

This is interesting, because I’ve seen you ingame before, and you were in the ANet guild.

Crixler.2857:

This is interesting, because I’ve seen you ingame before, and you were in the ANet guild.

Now this is interesting indeed. :>

It was decent content. Wasting my whole squad in that artillery bombardment was one of the most memorable moments in the story. Actually THE ONLY FRIGGIN’ MOMENT I CARED ABOUT AFTER MY MENTOR DIED.

Crixler.2857:

Mr Snotty Pants.3980:

Yeah, this arc has always been a bit goofy since you can only take one path, but all 3 outcomes show up in the final mission. I think some of the NPC dialog is trying to fill in the holes.

I’m fairly certain this is the case with the entire personal story. Every branch of it happens, even if your character doesn’t participate in them. Some other nameless character does it instead.

Calys Teneb.7015:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Thia.4891:

It saddens me greatly that story was removed, but it makes me happy to see that I’m not the only one passionate about this. Hopeful, ANet will see that the story MATTERS to us players, and then do the right thing and revert all the changes.

I’d rather they sit down with the chapters, two pots of coffee, and figure out how to smooth it out even if it means cutting things or having to go beg VAs to get back in the studio to shoot more content and adding things.

I don’t understand why people were so attached to the Fear storylines. They weren’t all that impressive. Only one of them had any real value to the story as a legitimate threat. The other two felt entirely tacked on and super rushed.

Apatia swims around and gets captured. Or she goes for the caravan, gets captured, and you do all the work to accomplish the mission without her anyways. She literally accomplished the fewest things in the story arc she appears in of anyone in the entire game. Faren is more useful and memorable than Apatia.

Tonn’s story just had no closure. It’s a buddy cop drama where you have to sit through a bunch of dad jokes, put together a special explosive to accomplish the same effect as a single trebuchet attack on Claw Island, and then he just vanishes. Dead, apparently. From the explosion? From the Krait? Did the undead get him? Who knows? He’s just dead now. How is that heartbreaking? It’s just confusing.

If they actually want to rework the fear storylines and make them relevant, then by all means, but I’m certainly not torn up about losing either of those two.

This is interesting, because I’ve seen you ingame before, and you were in the ANet guild.

Lets take screenshots, just in case….

I was lucky that my Charr engineer was still on one of the fear story sections involving Apatia so I got to see it a second time.

I would hope that my characters that took part in the fear arc get to remember it in there ‘personal’ story journal rather than having it vanish.

I’m glad to hear there are at least still some people out there with access to the Apatia and other storylines. I’m sad to say I recently realized I never brought a character through the Tonn storyline at all. I know someone mentioned planning on recording the Apatia storyline, and I hope they do, so people can at least see it and know where some of the important plot points at Fort Trinity came from. I was wondering if anyone who still has access to the Tonn storyline also plans on recording it. I’m really curious to see it now that I realize there was something I never got to see, and it looks like now there’s a chance I may never get to see it… :/ I really do feel like the decisions and losses felt in the Greatest Fear storyline made our characters more interesting because it makes them more human (or insert your character’s appropriate race here. You know what I mean).

It is very sad that even the entry for the Apatia storyline is absent from the journal on my character who went through the entire Personal Story with that choice. It’s like even the memory is gone now.

I feel robbed; the Fear story doesn’t even show up in the story journal at all anymore even for the characters who completed it. They didn’t just remove it, which is bad enough in itself for various reasons already stated here… they made it so it never happened.

I don’t care about ANet’s reasoning now that I think of it. It’s just unforgiveable.

It’s still possible that this is all just a bug. It really is still too early to tell. I think we’re doing the right thing by showing how much this bug upsets us and impacts us, and by making them aware of the bug like we are here. It’s been the weekend for a while now so it’s certainly not fair to expect a response during the time when no one is working. Hopefully since they will be back to work soon, someone can take a look at this, find out where this upsetting bug is coming from, then fix it and revert it back and undo the damage. I’m just holding off playing Personal Story until this is resolved. Which is sad because that was something the articles got me hyped to do, and it was all I really felt motivated to do in game.

I still have faith. I have to.

I think I should bring the attention of this thread to people here.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Communicating-with-you/page/27

The posts between Malkavian and Chris Whiteside have been covering the topic of the personal story and the removal of the Fear arc. It seems Chris has been looking into it and brought attention of the issue to Leah as well. Last post I read was him or Leah will have more info on Monday.

Wow, that was a huge mistake on Anet’s part. I can only hope that they will bring it back soon.

Great. I was looking forward to this storyline, and it gets cut. Why? Why the hell was the story cut up and screwed with? Was it to appease the chicoms or something? Was the storyline too dark for state sponsored feel good moments?

It probably wasn’t deliberate. Chris mentioned that the team is currently looking into this and would let us know on Monday

It frustrates me that we still haven’t heard anything much from ANet on this. I really hate that I went from ‘rabid fanboy’ to ‘jaded spinster’ with just one patch…

Thia.4891:

It frustrates me that we still haven’t heard anything much from ANet on this. I really hate that I went from ‘rabid fanboy’ to ‘jaded spinster’ with just one patch…

I think it was the weekend when they were saying “we’re going to look into this” so I wasn’t expecting to hear anything until Monday. Maybe Tuesday.

Malkavian.4516:

It probably wasn’t deliberate. Chris mentioned that the team is currently looking into this and would let us know on Monday

I think it was deliberate – they did nothing to other things that could possible have altered these to such a huge extent, and it was mentioned in the update notes, not to metion Jeffery Vaughn constantly explaining what happens for player play-throughs.

Kind of hits home the point that it was deliberate. It’s too huge of a thing, and too talked about by devs, to be an accidental change! The question is more of “was it deliberate only for China and got overlooked here, or was it deliberate across the board?” And if you ask me – given that they alter the object listings in English – it had to be deliberate across the board.

You don’t “accidentally” add in new scripts. A “bug” does not create unwritten text out of nowhere. They didn’t change any dialogue in the story steps, but they did alter the objectives.

This was deliberate, and those who continue to argue otherwise are just deluding themselves at this point. ArenaNet flubbed this one up.

In all honesty, it sounds to me that they’re just going “oh kitten” at all the constant negative feedback and are considering reverting it – or the “we’ll get back to you on Monday” is about trying to figure out the best way to explain why this change is for the best (aka brainstorming how to fix an uber PR disaster). Or – and I do pray that the case is the first (reverting it) – they’re working on ‘fixing’ the dialogue so that it clashes less (even if they made all the dialogue perfect, unless they go and completely alter the Blast from the Past story step, it still won’t work).

Wait. They got cut? There didn’t got changed to some sort of side-quest or something? They actually removed part of the story? Why?

It’s true that these were not the best part of the story. But they were already part of the story. Why taking them out?

And what about what my characters already did? And what changes choosing a greatest fear now?

Looks like the characters I was taking through the story will have to wait until they explain things.

They better make personal story replayable like living story too. So if they bring back cut parts people can go though them again.

The scary thing about the removal of that entire chapter along with the poor re-ordering of the last two chapters is how cavalierly it treats the storyline. Why should we, the players, still care if its parts and order and whatnot is so disposable and malleable without concern for its coherence and the consequences? If ANet doesn’t care for the PS, neither can we. And we can’t for the PS, neither can we care about ANet’s current efforts: the Living Story. Does this mean I should just throw out my copies of “Ghosts of Ascalon”, “Edge of Destiny”, and “Sea of Sorrows”?

I gotta say:
1. I doubt the removal and reordering of the last chapters of the PS had anything to do with Chinese censors. It doesn’t make sense where what would be considered worse according to Chinese standards of decency remains: creatures with exposed skeletons, the Risen of Orr.
2. Similarly, the stories of Apatia, Syska, and Tonn I doubt run against the party line in China. Those are not stories that really question any kind of political regime. Heck, given Confusian ethics (which is making a big comeback now, as supported by the Communist Party), those would make great tales of sticking to societal duty no matter the cost.
3. What I do think happened is that ANet wanted the PS to conform so neatly and uniformly to their new leveling scheme that they cut out the Greatest Fear and reorganized the remaining plotline to neatly fit into two chapters. However, in doing so, ANet sacrificed coherence, pathos and vitality for organization, order, symmetry. But they did it so haphazardly that it brought more harm than good to the game. They were being OC about reorganizing how people played the game but did so as if being OC was the end instead of merely the means.
4. Even if we assume that these changes were made to make our version of the game the same as China’s version- to somehow make it more accessible to them- I really wonder if the unnecessarily simplifying of the game and the PS was even needed. Yeah, okay, it’s a biz, you want to make sure to tap into the Chinese market- but do Chinese gamers need their hands held so much? I’m pretty sure they’re smart and astute enough to learn the game and its storyline the same way we did prior to the patch.
5. There’s also the debate about whether it was all a bug or deliberate, but…

At this point, it doesn’t matter (as well as my other points). The question is: Is ANet truly listening (please, please, I hope you are!) and are they willing or even about to fix (preferably change back to the old version) the PS?

Messenger.7450:

At this point, it doesn’t matter (as well as my other points). The question is: Is ANet truly listening (please, please, I hope you are!) and are they willing or even about to fix (preferably change back to the old version) the PS?

I seriously hope they are listening. The story is what kept me and others around here.

Fingers crossed that ANet listens and fix it back to what it was before they assaulted the PS with a blunt blade. If left as it is now then it sets a really bad precedent for existing and future content.

If the actions of my characters are so meaningless that they can be super-edited out at will by ANet, then there’s little point in playing a “Living World”.

Or maybe this is just what Living World ends up meaning after a few too many drinks. :/

Please revert this horrible decision.

Yeah, that’s what scares me to. If they are willing to take out whole chunks of the story and rearrange the ending, they what else are they going to do to the story. I mean, I expect skill balances and stuff like that in an MMO, but story balances? Come on ANet…