Guild Wars 2

Konig Des Todes.2086:

anzenketh.3759:

Why are you so intent on proving to me that it is not a bug and is intentional? Again the statement from Jeff stated nothing in regards to removing anything story related from the game.

Because everything points to it being intentional, and if so then ArenaNet needs to know that it was a bad move.

The storyline itself was removed. That’s a pretty kitten massive bug! If it was a bug, you can bet their kitten they would have given a confirmation of such and an ETA on when it’ll show up. They always do for the major bugs. Without exception.

The fact that they haven’t shows that it isn’t a bug. That it is “working as intended.”

The fact that the Studio Director states he will look into it tells me that it is a bug. The fact that the story itself is still in the game files tells me it is a trigger bug. I don’t see what you are seeing that supports a theory that it is not a bug.

That said if it is not a bug they will need to re-do the entire last two chapters to fix the plot holes. I really don’t want them too either. I hate recon.

anzenketh.3759:

The fact that the Studio Director states he will look into it tells me that it is a bug. The fact that the story itself is still in the game files tells me it is a trigger bug. I don’t see what you are seeing that supports a theory that it is not a bug.

The short answer is critical thinking.

You can also use “crying wolf”. This is what happens when the developer regularly applies nerfs to longstanding content rewards and calls them “bug fixes”.

Unfortunately, the player base isn’t nearly as stupid as Anet would prefer, and everything about the NPE seems geared toward making that ratio more favorable.

Leablo.2651:

anzenketh.3759:

The fact that the Studio Director states he will look into it tells me that it is a bug. The fact that the story itself is still in the game files tells me it is a trigger bug. I don’t see what you are seeing that supports a theory that it is not a bug.

The short answer is critical thinking.

You can also use “crying wolf”. This is what happens when the developer regularly applies nerfs to longstanding content rewards and calls them “bug fixes”.

Unfortunately, the player base isn’t nearly as stupid as Anet would prefer, and everything about the NPE seems geared toward making that ratio more favorable.

I’ll note I have some faith in what they say being honest, due partially to not being one of the few MMO companies I’ve played under which had people blatantly lie to me in the face of evidence.

Three others have done everything from denying something was broken to accusing me of RMT with no evidence they would present only “we know you did” followed by a thorough ban . . . so thorough I couldn’t even register another account under my name or any credit card in my family.

So, because they have largely treated me fairly and like a person instead of someone to rip off? I’ll admit I give the benefit of the doubt as to their motives not being sinister.

Leablo.2651:

anzenketh.3759:

The fact that the Studio Director states he will look into it tells me that it is a bug. The fact that the story itself is still in the game files tells me it is a trigger bug. I don’t see what you are seeing that supports a theory that it is not a bug.

The short answer is critical thinking.

You can also use “crying wolf”. This is what happens when the developer regularly applies nerfs to longstanding content rewards and calls them “bug fixes”.

Unfortunately, the player base isn’t nearly as stupid as Anet would prefer, and everything about the NPE seems geared toward making that ratio more favorable.

ArenaNet have proven to me a few times that they are willing to admit mistakes and change things. I see no reason at the moment to think otherwise.

anzenketh.3759:

Leablo.2651:

anzenketh.3759:

The fact that the Studio Director states he will look into it tells me that it is a bug. The fact that the story itself is still in the game files tells me it is a trigger bug. I don’t see what you are seeing that supports a theory that it is not a bug.

The short answer is critical thinking.

You can also use “crying wolf”. This is what happens when the developer regularly applies nerfs to longstanding content rewards and calls them “bug fixes”.

Unfortunately, the player base isn’t nearly as stupid as Anet would prefer, and everything about the NPE seems geared toward making that ratio more favorable.

ArenaNet have proven to me a few times that they are willing to admit mistakes and change things. I see no reason at the moment to think otherwise.

I hope that you’re right. I would love to have my faith in ANet restored.

Too add on to the issue with Personal Story quests being rearranged, I submit the issue of Laranthir Of The Wild. Here is a small album of two screenshots from the cutscene that takes place when I meet Laranthir and one of the spirit shamans from Hoelbrek during the quest “Against The Corruption”.

http://imgur.com/a/GrZy6#1

The catch? I just spent the last four missions with Laranthir. He already knows who I am. A mutual friend died in front of both of our eyes on the mission I literally JUST finished mere SECONDS before starting this quest.

Come on ANet. More thought should have REALLY been put into this if this was the route you wanted to go…

EDIT: I just remembered, I had a picture from the previous quest I mentioned, where Laranthir and I went up against Risen Prince Nekandezzar in the quest “Blast from the Past”. I added that to the end of the album.

I know a lot of changes were made in the recent patch to make things less confusing for new players. But really, if you’re going from one mission where you’re already expected to know someone, to a couple missions down the line where you meet them for the first time… that’s more than confusing. It’s ridiculous.

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Too add on to the issue with Personal Story quests being rearranged, I submit the issue of Laranthir Of The Wild. Here is a small album of two screenshots from the cutscene that takes place when I meet Laranthir and one of the spirit shamans from Hoelbrek during the quest “Against The Corruption”.

http://imgur.com/a/GrZy6#1

The catch? I just spent the last four missions with Laranthir. He already knows who I am. A mutual friend died in front of both of our eyes on the mission I literally JUST finished mere SECONDS before starting this quest.

Come on ANet. More thought should have REALLY been put into this if this was the route you wanted to go…

EDIT: I just remembered, I had a picture from the previous quest I mentioned, where Laranthir and I went up against Risen Prince Nekandezzar in the quest “Blast from the Past”. I added that to the end of the album.

I know a lot of changes were made in the recent patch to make things less confusing for new players. But really, if you’re going from one mission where you’re already expected to know someone, to a couple missions down the line where you meet them for the first time… that’s more than confusing. It’s ridiculous.

It’s the same with Sayeh al’Rajihd the Largos. Due to the “reorganizing” of the story and removal of the greatest fear plot line, You talk to her to ask her where Trahearne is after cleansing Orr, THEN you meet her and go to the lost temple of Abaddon.

Speaking of cleansing Orr, having that mission not be closer to the end of the story really ruins the feelings that the fight with the eye and music after had brought to completing the campaign into Orr.

Skyblocker.7964:

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Too add on to the issue with Personal Story quests being rearranged, I submit the issue of Laranthir Of The Wild. Here is a small album of two screenshots from the cutscene that takes place when I meet Laranthir and one of the spirit shamans from Hoelbrek during the quest “Against The Corruption”.

http://imgur.com/a/GrZy6#1

The catch? I just spent the last four missions with Laranthir. He already knows who I am. A mutual friend died in front of both of our eyes on the mission I literally JUST finished mere SECONDS before starting this quest.

Come on ANet. More thought should have REALLY been put into this if this was the route you wanted to go…

EDIT: I just remembered, I had a picture from the previous quest I mentioned, where Laranthir and I went up against Risen Prince Nekandezzar in the quest “Blast from the Past”. I added that to the end of the album.

I know a lot of changes were made in the recent patch to make things less confusing for new players. But really, if you’re going from one mission where you’re already expected to know someone, to a couple missions down the line where you meet them for the first time… that’s more than confusing. It’s ridiculous.

It’s the same with Sayeh al’Rajihd the Largos. Due to the “reorganizing” of the story and removal of the greatest fear plot line, You talk to her to ask her where Trahearne is after cleansing Orr, THEN you meet her and go to the lost temple of Abaddon.

Speaking of cleansing Orr, having that mission not be closer to the end of the story really ruins the feelings that the fight with the eye and music after had brought to completing the campaign into Orr.

I remember completing that for the first time just after launch… that was an epic feeling.

Moving on directly to Zhaitan from there made perfect sense, since it was the last weakening blow to Zhaitan and bigger than anything else done so far. Why on earth would you want to jumble that up?

anzenketh.3759:

The fact that the Studio Director states he will look into it tells me that it is a bug. The fact that the story itself is still in the game files tells me it is a trigger bug. I don’t see what you are seeing that supports a theory that it is not a bug.

That said if it is not a bug they will need to re-do the entire last two chapters to fix the plot holes. I really don’t want them too either. I hate recon.

Please read my previous post in this thread for more but these changes cannot possibly be a bug simply because new things were added. Objectives got rewritten. Even if this was meant for China only and not NA/EU, it would not include all the localizations would it? A bug does not create new text out of nothing. An accident does not alter to such huge extents.

You can argue chapter 7 being removed was a bug, I suppose, but not the changes to chapter 8, and the changes to chapter 7 and 8 were explicitly stated in the update notes.

Chapter 7 now deals with the cleansing of Orr.

Well, guess what, the fear storyline has nothing to do with the cleansing of Orr.

Let me ask you this: how does someone simply stating “I’ll get back to you on this” (he is NOT stating he’ll look into it, he’s NOT stating that he’ll check on what’s wrong, he’s NOT stating that he’ll confirm it’s a bug; he merely states that he will get back to you on it – which is about as vague as you can be) indicate that it is a bug?

Maybe he wants to check to get the writers’ or whomever made the change’s reasons to present it, not to get an ETA on when the “bug” will be fixed.

Maybe he wants to see if the negative feedback on it has made them change their minds.

There’s nothing here to indicate it’s not a bug, but everything to indicate it is one. Its existence in the update notes, the new objective text, dev posts pointing to said update notes. It’s there, plain as day, and not seeing it makes you delusional in my opinion.

Even as someone who has defended ArenaNet time and time again – though less so as of late – it’s obvious to me that this was not only a terrible move, but an intentional move. And as of late, they’ve been making more and more bad-to-terrible moves.

Sooo… any news yet from that “I’ll get back to you on that on Monday”?

lakdav.3694:

Sooo… any news yet from that “I’ll get back to you on that on Monday”?

Yeah, he felt sick and didn’t go in and posted in the two active threads he’s on.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

lakdav.3694:

Sooo… any news yet from that “I’ll get back to you on that on Monday”?

Yeah, he felt sick and didn’t go in and posted in the two active threads he’s on.

What are you guys talking about? Nobody in this thread said they would get back by Monday. The only ANet response in this entire thread is about how progress while doing the Greatest Fear plotline wouldn’t be lost, after patch, it would just be shifted.

Which… seems to actually NOT be the case, but that’s beside the point. Nobody in this thread said they’d “Look into it and get back to [us] Monday”.

anzenketh.3759:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

anzenketh.3759:

Why are you so intent on proving to me that it is not a bug and is intentional? Again the statement from Jeff stated nothing in regards to removing anything story related from the game.

Because everything points to it being intentional, and if so then ArenaNet needs to know that it was a bad move.

The storyline itself was removed. That’s a pretty kitten massive bug! If it was a bug, you can bet their kitten they would have given a confirmation of such and an ETA on when it’ll show up. They always do for the major bugs. Without exception.

The fact that they haven’t shows that it isn’t a bug. That it is “working as intended.”

The fact that the Studio Director states he will look into it tells me that it is a bug. The fact that the story itself is still in the game files tells me it is a trigger bug. I don’t see what you are seeing that supports a theory that it is not a bug.

That said if it is not a bug they will need to re-do the entire last two chapters to fix the plot holes. I really don’t want them too either. I hate recon.

You mean “retcon” (lol)

The patch notes indicated that there will be modifications related to Chapter 7 and 8 but never specified even on the preview posts related to NPE that certain story bits will be cut off. If anything, I don’t recall any news saying that modifications would be made to the story outside of consolidating them into bigger chapters and the shifting of focus in the last two chapters. Even the official wiki included the Greatest Fear quests, so they’re supposed to be playable on Chapter 7.

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

What are you guys talking about? Nobody in this thread said they would get back by Monday. The only ANet response in this entire thread is about how progress while doing the Greatest Fear plotline wouldn’t be lost, after patch, it would just be shifted.

Which… seems to actually NOT be the case, but that’s beside the point. Nobody in this thread said they’d “Look into it and get back to [us] Monday”.

there you go:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi Malk,

First of all thanks very much for all of your info. We have actually been using your posts to investigate (or rather Leah and her team has).

Secondly and just to be clear in case it isn’t. I am not a customer service rep, I am a developer and thus you are talking directly to the team.

Finally I will have more info for you Monday or perhaps Leah will post. Either way we will be in touch. Thanks for your support and have a great weekend.

Chris

link is here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Communicating-with-you/page/29#post4409299
happy now?

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

lakdav.3694:

Sooo… any news yet from that “I’ll get back to you on that on Monday”?

Yeah, he felt sick and didn’t go in and posted in the two active threads he’s on.

What are you guys talking about? Nobody in this thread said they would get back by Monday. The only ANet response in this entire thread is about how progress while doing the Greatest Fear plotline wouldn’t be lost, after patch, it would just be shifted.

Which… seems to actually NOT be the case, but that’s beside the point. Nobody in this thread said they’d “Look into it and get back to [us] Monday”.

Not on this thread but on the “Communicating with you” thread. Chris mentioned that Leah would also look into this and would get back to us with updates regarding this issue. A shame that I haven’t heard a word yet because Chris was feeling unwell at the time though I do hope that he and Leah will diligently look into this and eventually prioritize this issue to be fixed ASAP.

Malkavian.4516:

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

lakdav.3694:

Sooo… any news yet from that “I’ll get back to you on that on Monday”?

Yeah, he felt sick and didn’t go in and posted in the two active threads he’s on.

What are you guys talking about? Nobody in this thread said they would get back by Monday. The only ANet response in this entire thread is about how progress while doing the Greatest Fear plotline wouldn’t be lost, after patch, it would just be shifted.

Which… seems to actually NOT be the case, but that’s beside the point. Nobody in this thread said they’d “Look into it and get back to [us] Monday”.

Not on this thread but on the “Communicating with you” thread. Chris mentioned that Leah would also look into this and would get back to us with updates regarding this issue. A shame that I haven’t heard a word yet because Chris was feeling unwell at the time though I do hope that he and Leah will diligently look into this and eventually prioritize this issue to be fixed ASAP.

Oh, it was in a different thread. Weird, but thanks for catching me up on it.

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Oh, it was in a different thread. Weird, but thanks for catching me up on it.

Yeah, a lot of conversations about things have spilled into the “Communicating with you” thread since there’s a lot of attention focused there right now.

Chris posted in the other thread:

“Hi Malk,

I have asked them to post an update but they are super busy. So if they don’t today I will swing by and then update on their behalf. I have been forwarding yours and others info to them and they have been using it. So thank you very much.

Chris"

Fingers crossed they actually fix it and don’t stop at looking into it.

The greatest fear arc was one of the most interesting parts of the story.

I just wanted to point out to everyone that there is hope that this is all just a bad bug. Gaile Gray recently posted this:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Changes-Coming-to-the-NPE

I will quote the relevant portion:

Gaile Gray.6029:

The devs have been reviewing your feedback on the New Player Experience. While some bug fixes have already been made, the team will be making other updates in the future to address:

• Plot holes and story inconsistencies that may have been introduced with story realignment

…

Other aspects of the NPE are being examined, and your constructive feedback is welcome and appreciated.

I’m not sure how well they have followed this thread, but it may be worth pointing out there that the lack of the Greatest Fear plotline means we don’t know why we have an orb that protects Fort Trinity, that we don’t know what’s up with the Orrian mesmer or why Fort Trinity has been being sabotaged or, what happened with Tonn (which I have yet to play, but am excited to be able to try).

In the midst of the glaring, enormous plot holes made by putting the cart before the horse by mixing up Orr, it’s important to remember that these are plot holes as well.

…And remember: the goal is constructive criticism. Even though we may feel pretty upset about what was done to the Greatest Fear plotline, no one will take us seriously if we don’t present well-reasoned examples of why the Greatest Fear plotline needs to return. In addition to the plot holes mentioned above, they also already voiced, paid for, and implemented the story, so it would be a lot of lost investment for them not to return the Greatest Fear plotline.

That post actually indicates that it isn’t a bug, but that there are indeed changes to be made. What indicates such is the sentence “While some bug fixes have already been made, the team will be making other updates in the future to address:”

Her line about plot holes and inconsistencies being fixed is highly subject to interpretation, and does not guarantee a revert, but could also be a series of dialogue fixes – which even if they bring in new voice overs, will not fix all inconsistencies. They’d have to change dialogue, voice overs, NPC models, and the entire maps (moving where The Artesian Waters is located) if they want to avoid all inconsistencies and plot holes. A lot more work than merely reverting, so I hope they just revert, where there will then only be 1 inconsistency (off the top of my head at least) in the form of Laranthir of the Wilds.

There’s a lot of inconsistencies that were made with the move. Aside from the three about the Fear plot you pointed out, there’s also:

• Pact Demolitionist Strixel, apprentice to Tonn, bringing him up; and Tonn’s ascended gear name – players won’t know about it.
• Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan fought before we learn what an Eye of Zhaitan is, or that there’s even more than one Eye; we learn what the Eyes were before corruption before meeting our “first Eye” as well.
• We access the Artesian Waters which is behind a risen fortification, then we take down said risen fortification.
• There are several mentions of weakening Zhaitan, of past battles, and being on the winning end of the war in Against the Corruption to The Source of Orr.

And this one was always there:

• Laranthir of the Wilds never recognizes us, even if we’re Vigil and thus met him during Chapter 5, or if we did Blast from the Past and met him in the previous story step (though the latter is one inconsistency actually fixed, ironically enough).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

That post actually indicates that it isn’t a bug, but that there are indeed changes to be made. What indicates such is the sentence “While some bug fixes have already been made, the team will be making other updates in the future to address:”

Her line about plot holes and inconsistencies being fixed is highly subject to interpretation, and does not guarantee a revert, but could also be a series of dialogue fixes – which even if they bring in new voice overs, will not fix all inconsistencies. They’d have to change dialogue, voice overs, NPC models, and the entire maps (moving where The Artesian Waters is located) if they want to avoid all inconsistencies and plot holes. A lot more work than merely reverting, so I hope they just revert, where there will then only be 1 inconsistency (off the top of my head at least) in the form of Laranthir of the Wilds.

There’s a lot of inconsistencies that were made with the move. Aside from the three about the Fear plot you pointed out, there’s also:

• Pact Demolitionist Strixel, apprentice to Tonn, bringing him up; and Tonn’s ascended gear name – players won’t know about it.
• Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan fought before we learn what an Eye of Zhaitan is, or that there’s even more than one Eye; we learn what the Eyes were before corruption before meeting our “first Eye” as well.
• We access the Artesian Waters which is behind a risen fortification, then we take down said risen fortification.
• There are several mentions of weakening Zhaitan, of past battles, and being on the winning end of the war in Against the Corruption to The Source of Orr.

And this one was always there:

• Laranthir of the Wilds never recognizes us, even if we’re Vigil and thus met him during Chapter 5, or if we did Blast from the Past and met him in the previous story step (though the latter is one inconsistency actually fixed, ironically enough).

I know it can be read to mean they really did intend this, but it also means there is still hope that they can make it right.

They have two options to make the plot make sense again:

1. Employ new writers, voice actors, artists, designers, and programmers to examine and change vast amounts of content to discover and subsequently wipe out all old references in a forced attempt to make any semblance of sense out of the new “design” (bearing in mind that if nothing else at least the voice actors are probably not in-house employees and would involve re-contracting old voice actors or trying to find new “close enough” voice actors… a practice which seems to not be well-received to the extent that people like a character to sound the same throughout, say, an entire movie); or

2. Put the story back the way it was before, so it makes sense again.

Option 2 has the added bonus that you wouldn’t have to hire voice actors again or have your staff solve a complex multi-dimensional puzzle of finding and eliminating every original botched reference that was part of the story of an original award-winning game…

…I don’t know, if I was making decisions on how to best spend resources, Option 2 just makes a lot more sense to me in really just about every way I can imagine.

please forgive me for repeating myself. this thread seems to be the place i should have posted to begin with, so i’ll quote here:

Forgotten Legend.9281:

[ suggestion for personal story ]

A) please restore chapter 7 of the personal story to how it was before the patch. ie, the personal “greatest fear” plot line.

B) please restore the “cleansing of orr” plotline to the END of chapter 8, the way is was pre 9/9

C) pleaase split chapter 8 into three chapters:

~Chapter 8: Crippling the Beast, (basically, story steps “Temple of the Forgotten God” through " A Grisly Shipment" / “Ossuary of Unquiet Dead” )
~Chapter 9: Further Into Orr (story steps “Further into Orr” through “Blast from the Past” / “Ships of the Line” / “The Steel Tide” )
~Chapter 10: Victory or Death (story steps “Against the Corruption” through “Victory or Death” )

[Benefits of suggested structure]

~ retains the consistency of the story
~ cleansing of orr storyline is in a level 80 zone, and therefore should retain it’s level status
~ the extra chapters break up the story into more manageable bits for the player, retaining chapter length consistency (each chapter is roughly 3-5 story steps, except "The Battle of Claw Island, which is 7 steps)

in addition to the above, another reason for restoring the “greatest fear” plotline, is the how’s and why’s behind part of the defense of Fort Trinity.

a) the blue Orb… is explained in Lionguard Apatia’s story line. otherwise, the player has no clue why he/she is placing a blue orb into the device mid way through the mission. no clue as to what is does, and no clue as to how the Pact obtained it.

b) Tonn’s bombs… is explained by Tonn’s storyline, that they are the best kaboomers made in the pact. otherwise, who cares who made them

c) having the storylines mentioned in the fort trinity defense gives a larger sense of scale for players who have played through the multiple story lines., even so much as hinting there could possibly be mulitple “lieutenant commanders”, as both Tonn’s bombs and the blue orb are found within Fort Trinity. i personally pretend that my three main characters experienced three different storyline paths that intertwined, and the greatest fear storylines help reinforce / allow for that possibilty.

edit:
d) the “mistake” storyline also continues the theme started during the “battle of Claw Island” chapter and rescue at Rancor Ruins story step (starts at Fort Concordia), that Zhaitan and his army are actually intelligent and use advanced tactics and strategy against their foes.

Forgotten Legend.9281:

please forgive me for repeating myself. this thread seems to be the place i should have posted to begin with, so i’ll quote here:

Forgotten Legend.9281:

[ suggestion for personal story ]

A) please restore chapter 7 of the personal story to how it was before the patch. ie, the personal “greatest fear” plot line.

B) please restore the “cleansing of orr” plotline to the END of chapter 8, the way is was pre 9/9

C) pleaase split chapter 8 into three chapters:

~Chapter 8: Crippling the Beast, (basically, story steps “Temple of the Forgotten God” through " A Grisly Shipment" / “Ossuary of Unquiet Dead” )
~Chapter 9: Further Into Orr (story steps “Further into Orr” through “Blast from the Past” / “Ships of the Line” / “The Steel Tide” )
~Chapter 10: Victory or Death (story steps “Against the Corruption” through “Victory or Death” )

[Benefits of suggested structure]

~ retains the consistency of the story
~ cleansing of orr storyline is in a level 80 zone, and therefore should retain it’s level status
~ the extra chapters break up the story into more manageable bits for the player, retaining chapter length consistency (each chapter is roughly 3-5 story steps, except "The Battle of Claw Island, which is 7 steps)

in addition to the above, another reason for restoring the “greatest fear” plotline, is the how’s and why’s behind part of the defense of Fort Trinity.

a) the blue Orb… is explained in Lionguard Apatia’s story line. otherwise, the player has no clue why he/she is placing a blue orb into the device mid way through the mission. no clue as to what is does, and no clue as to how the Pact obtained it.

b) Tonn’s bombs… is explained by Tonn’s storyline, that they are the best kaboomers made in the pact. otherwise, who cares who made them

c) having the storylines mentioned in the fort trinity defense gives a larger sense of scale for players who have played through the multiple story lines., even so much as hinting there could possibly be mulitple “lieutenant commanders”, as both Tonn’s bombs and the blue orb are found within Fort Trinity. i personally pretend that my three main characters experienced three different storyline paths that intertwined, and the greatest fear storylines help reinforce / allow for that possibilty.

edit:
d) the “mistake” storyline also continues the theme started during the “battle of Claw Island” chapter and rescue at Rancor Ruins story step (starts at Fort Concordia), that Zhaitan and his army are actually intelligent and use advanced tactics and strategy against their foes.

It is relevant here and it is also relevant there. I think it is more likely to be seen in the other thread, so I am glad it is there. But thank you for bringing it here as well. It does a better job than I did of explaining how there are plot holes because of this removal.

It really does make the most sense, from a purely economic standpoint, than either leaving the Personal Story a mess or spending a lot of man-hours to wipe out all the references to the story.

…plus, you know, the old story was already paid for and implemented, and had the added benefit of being the moment in the story where, at least for me and some of the other forum posters I have seen here and elsewhere, my character felt the most real.

If nothing else, the fact that the inclusion of the Greatest Fear storyline gives my character a tough event to deal with is reason enough to keep it. It makes the story stronger, even if it’s not everyone’s favorite chapter. It’s an important moment for character growth and development. Without it, the story is more shallow and the player character is more flat.

Here’s something else I realized: Even where the PS is now level gated, why does Chapter 8 have to be as short as the previous chapters? Your character is now at max level! You’ve hit the cap of 80 and should have the basics of the game down with a good amount of playing experience under your belt. There’s nothing wrong with the long Chapter 8 we had in the pre-Feature Pack PS because players should then be fully equipped to deal with it.

Besides the story and gameplay incoherence caused by the patch’s reorganization, the new PS is also too short, both in its entirety (thanks to the removal of the Greatest Fear plotline) and in its end (Chapter 8 is now much shorter). And when a story is too short, it becomes anticlimactic and dull.

At the same time, what did the Greatest Fear storyline ultimately drive home to the player? That there will be casualties and sacrifices made whose cost we’re barely able to accept. Losing a beloved mentor wasn’t bad enough- what about the people who worked and fought alongside and under you as Commander of the Pact? These are lives whose demise only has meaning with the defeat of Zhaitan.

The removal of the Greatest Fear, alongside the shortening of the PS caused by its reorganization, didn’t just make the new PS shallower- it also lessened the triumph the player could feel when he finally defeats Zhaitan.

Please bring back the old PS. Level-gate them if you must, allowing Chapter 8 to be long, but make it as good as it originally was by making it as it was.

So according to a red post they are ‘looking into it’. I’m not sure what they need to discuss though, to be honest. I mean, the story is broken; they need to fix it. There, end of discussion.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Changes-Coming-to-the-NPE/page/7#post4422523

I’m supposing they need to find all the instances where it breaks and make sure they get them all.

Either that or they’re planning the next wave of asura supremacy. (Kill them all, now, before it’s too late.)

But wouldn’t the quickest way to fix all the flaws in the story be to put it back in the correct order?

Thia.4891:

But wouldn’t the quickest way to fix all the flaws in the story be to put it back in the correct order?

Not really, considering the story had flaws and troubles beforehand. Besides, I’m more talking about the smaller things such as a character not remembering you despite the fact they should. (Happens more than once.)

The story was working perfectly fine before, it didn’t need fixing. Now it does.

I’ve been leveling a thief, I’m rapidly approaching level 70 and dreading it.

I refuse to play the current mangled story, I guess I could say that it has become my greatest fear in this game. If it isn’t fixed I might actually quit this game, and I’m not saying this as some kind of blackmail or pressure.

I don’t want to quit.

A question to the devs. Is this the experience you want to give your players?

Should I be dreading playing your game?

Should I feel insulted or maybe even depressed when I log on, as I’ve seen many be since this latest update?

Or should I log on and say “Oh yeah, let’s play Guild Wars 2, awesome!”

Regardless of the reason, at the end of the day, this is the kind of business you’re in. If your clients aren’t satisfied, you have failed.

I didn’t even realize that they had removed this part of the story until I went through the story on an alt. I thought that this particular story step helped to develop your character and give context for some of the dialogue in the later parts of the story.
I personally thought that this bit of content was better than no content, and by removing it Anet is basically saying that they don’t feel the same way. I really hope that this wasn’t the intended message, and that we’ll see this sort of choice and character building reintroduced into the personal story at some point.
The removal of any kind of functional content is very unfortunate for the users of any game, and makes me wary of what will get cut next.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Thia.4891:

But wouldn’t the quickest way to fix all the flaws in the story be to put it back in the correct order?

Not really, considering the story had flaws and troubles beforehand. Besides, I’m more talking about the smaller things such as a character not remembering you despite the fact they should. (Happens more than once.)

It is true that there were PS flaws even before the Feature Pack patch, such as the one you mentioned- but now they’ve added to those flaws by removing the Greatest Fear plotlne and and reorganizing the last two chapters. Previously, characters you’ve met and worked with suddenly don’t know you after their part in your story is done. Now, characters you’ve met don’t know you and characters you haven’t meet already know you. In addition, you do things before it makes sense to do them, such as taking down the Eyes of Zhaitan before you even know what they do.

Before introducing more problems with an update, ANet should have fixed the old problems first. And given the points raised here, they need not change the PS further to begin with.

Messenger.7450:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Thia.4891:

But wouldn’t the quickest way to fix all the flaws in the story be to put it back in the correct order?

Not really, considering the story had flaws and troubles beforehand. Besides, I’m more talking about the smaller things such as a character not remembering you despite the fact they should. (Happens more than once.)

It is true that there were PS flaws even before the Feature Pack patch, such as the one you mentioned- but now they’ve added to those flaws by removing the Greatest Fear plotlne and and reorganizing the last two chapters. Previously, characters you’ve met and worked with suddenly don’t know you after their part in your story is done. Now, characters you’ve met don’t know you and characters you haven’t meet already know you. In addition, you do things before it makes sense to do them, such as taking down the Eyes of Zhaitan before you even know what they do.

Before introducing more problems with an update, ANet should have fixed the old problems first. And given the points raised here, they need not change the PS further to begin with.

No argument there about it, mostly because I haven’t gotten there with the PS on my next-lowest character.

I was just pointing out . . . there wasn’t anything new about plot holes, dangling plot hooks, or just inconsistent experiences. While this just adds another basked, I half expect now they want to get a list to get to work on rather than just tunnel-vision. But I’m not there so . . .

Have there been any other red posts about this? Other then the one where they say they discussing it?

Thia.4891:

Have there been any other red posts about this? Other then the one where they say they discussing it?

Seen a little mention in the thread about the NPE, but other than that it’s been very quiet. I actually came back to this thread hoping for some news but no luck it seems.

I’ve been regularly coming to this thread hoping to hear any news.
I wonder if this will become one of those “ignore it until it goes away” deals?

That’s why I keep coming back actually, to let ANet know that I haven’t forgotten about this and they shouldn’t either.

I’m hoping the delay is simply because this isn’t as easy to fix as changing the level at which skills unlock. Even the most ardent forum campaigner can’t claim that this can be fixed with “2 lines of code”.

Even if they do want to revert it to the way it was before they can’t just undo the changes because the story has to fit with the new chapters system. If they put it back into the original order they’ll have to rearrange the rewards too so you’re not getting level 80 story rewards at level 70 and re-do the text and everything for the story journal. Plus add rewards for the Greatest Fear storyline.

On top of which this was obviously an intentional change (as opposed to a bug) which means at least 1 person at Anet genuinely thought it’d be better this way and they may be trying to take their reasoning into account and find a middle ground. Although I can’t imagine what that would be.

I would be kinda ok if they ditched the chapter system as well to be honest. But that’s just me of course…

I can see how this would be a challenging fix with the NPE and all, but some form of confirmation that they’re actually working on it / have the intention to fix it would be nice.

I have a few characters mid Personal Story waiting for this to be put back in its proper order, Greatest Fear and all.

you guys have to understand, this plot was mentally way too challenging for the chinese censorship department. given that it also should be way too challenging for their customers in na and eu of which 95% are 6-7 years old.
pls also remove killing and introduce the new revolutionary “making enemies go to sleep” system. i bet you could also make some contracts with hello kitty.

I really wish they would do a CDI about the story.

Thia.4891:

I really wish they would do a CDI about the story.

I really dread if they do.

I had just finished the “Ships of the Line” quest, and I am now doing “Against the Corruption.” All my progress of the previous chapter has vanished. Am I going to have to do that chapter all over again?

I would also like to add: The most economic solutions for Anet to take here would be to either put the story back the way it was, decide they don’t actually care about the game anymore and leave the story in the complete mess it’s in, or, the worst possibility…remove even more, vast amounts of content in order to make the story make sense again. Given the fact that this mess exists in the first place, I’m terrified that they’ll do the last…

With each passing day, I grow more despondent with the lack of a true update with respect to correcting the personal story back to what it should be. I hope the silence isn’t caused by putting the story on the back burner and hoping people would just forget about it and leaving it in the mess it is… because that kinda thing would have me “forgetting” to buy gems and to log in… as well as to NOT recommend the game to anyone.

Because I always recommended it to friends and I got a few friends to join… now I’m kinda embarrassed because while we didn’t enjoy the Living Story so much, they, like me, really did enjoy the Personal Story since it showcased their character. (A voiced character at that).

There’s got to be something said about being the star of your own story and then finding out you’re slowly being cut out of that story because someone else wrongfully thought “Hey, lets cut this out, NO ONE would ever notice.”

Uhuh, right. I noticed and I’m not the only person who did.

I have now reached L70 on my thief and my greatest fear has come true, I’m at that moment in the Personal Story, and after so much time, still utter silence from the devs.

I wish there was a way to turn off that green star icon. It feels like a slap in the face each time my eyes wander over at it.

Because I’m just going to ignore the story from this point on, I refuse to go through it.

I feel insulted.

By the silence, and by the cavalier way in which the story was mutilated, turning something which was fine into a sub par product at best, for which this company then has the nerve to ask me to spend some more money on.

To that I say no.

I will not be spending any more money on an inferior product, for this is what Arenanet has chosen to give us at this time. Anyone with a critic mind can see it.

The only reason they still have my traffic is because I still have a friend left in game. Yes one, all others have left.

Arenanet needs to define itself, and it will do so by it’s actions, and by the way in which it communicates with their player base.

Either it is still the company that made the game that I love, or it has just become another uncaring corporate money sucking machine.

Either way, it’s not going to be my money that they suck. All I’m willing to give right now is time, and that is running out.

Wouldnt it be fine if they just put the Greatest Fear plot on lvl70 and the rest come at lvl75 starting with the Abaddon temple? Last portion of the personal story, it wouldnt be a problem if it was a bit more condensed, with a 5 levels gap instead of the glaring 10 levels…

I simply don’t understand why they would do this at all.

I think I read somewhere that the original format made the final chapters too long, but why is that a problem? Since when is more content a problem?

Maybe they were concerned that people would level exclusively on the story, and not by exploring the Orrian areas? Just tweak the experience points you get from each mission, problem solved. I truly don’t get this.

I find it hard to accept that it’s the chinese censor thing as well, but that could well be the case. I just don’t know.

Someone really should be transparent and upfront about this, is that too much to ask?

They said they are doing something about it. Lets hope the story will be back as it was.