Guild Wars 2

I think most AP hunters suffer from some sort of OCD (I know I do). When there is something that is available to do that is tracked, I feel like I HAVE to do it, not because it’s fun or because I want to, but because my mental state compels me to do so. If you don’t suffer from any sort of obsessive compulsive disorder tendencies you can’t understand this, but it IS real.

I think the problem is that if you are seriously hardcore OCD, the only way to make you happy is to put a cap on how many AP you can get from daily/monthly, as that would end the need to get more, since there is no more to get. Doing that could ruin the fun of many people that are NOT hardcore OCD.

For completionists more is not necessarily better, for casual people, more is usually better.

Rick.5781:

I think most AP hunters suffer from some sort of OCD (I know I do). When there is something that is available to do that is tracked, I feel like I HAVE to do it, not because it’s fun or because I want to, but because my mental state compels me to do so. If you don’t suffer from any sort of obsessive compulsive disorder tendencies you can’t understand this, but it IS real.

I think the problem is that if you are seriously hardcore OCD, the only way to make you happy is to put a cap on how many AP you can get from daily/monthly, as that would end the need to get more, since there is no more to get. Doing that could ruin the fun of many people that are NOT hardcore OCD.

For completionists more is not necessarily better, for casual people, more is usually better.

1. Thanks for your concerns but I do not suffer from mental illness. Maybe you do but it’s your problem and I’d love if you could avoid that kind of generalization
2. You obviously didn’t read the propositions that were made because the most discussed ones do not impact casual players at all

Yamiga.7863:

1. Thanks for your concerns but I do not suffer from mental illness. Maybe you do but it’s your problem and I’d love if you could avoid that kind of generalization
2. You obviously didn’t read the propositions that were made because the most discussed ones do not impact casual players at all

1. Most =/= All. Some form of =/= full blown mental illness quality OCD where you feel the need to wash your hands 10x or open/close the door 5x before entering or leaving a room because bad things might happen if you dont.

2. I hate to say it, but the fact that you feel the need to complete all the dailys just to stay atop a leaderboard in a video game that has no impact on your quality of life, and do it even though you don’t consider it a fun use of your time, is a symptom of the obsessive compulsive spectrum of mental disorders.

3. I did read the propositions, but my post wasn’t related to any of them, it was in regard to people telling completionists to just deal with it or adapt, and my response was in relation to people suffering from HARDCORE OCD, not minor.

The simpler solution in terms of structure is to have they dailies give 0 achievement points individually and each day has a 5 point meta-achievement for doing any 5 of the list. Then you can still see all 11ish of them, and you can even still do them if you must, but the AP incentive stops at 5.

I’m coming up on 10k (about 40 to go) and while I’ve managed to dial back to doing them faithfully rather than compulsively, I am looking forward to hitting that milestone and largely ignoring AP from that point on.

This solution was mentioned earlier in the thread and met some resistance from people because it would hurt players who get most of their points from dailies and open a huge gap between people that did dailies before that change and after.

The discussion around the ‘total cap’ idea has not highlighted any substantial contras yet from what I’ve seen, so I think it would be the better option.

Nausicaa.9563:

This solution was mentioned earlier in the thread

Oh good. It shouldn’t be a novel thought since we see the tech/pattern in the game all the time already.

…and met some resistance from people because it would hurt players who get most of their points from dailies and open a huge gap between people that did dailies before that change and after.

Well, I think there’s a question of should massive dailies achievers be reined in, possibly for their own good.

I think the before-and-after ship has long since sailed since there’s a whole massive category of achievements recorded but no longer available… pretty much every Living Story achievement point ever…

The discussion around the ‘total cap’ idea has not highlighted any substantial contras yet from what I’ve seen, so I think it would be the better option.

I would say from ArenaNet’s perspective a total cap on dailies is dead before it takes one step – the point of dailies is to give people a reason to return regularly. If you’ve maxed out you Dailies cap forever… players who log in for that reason are just gone. Unless I’m misunderstanding how this cap would work?

Hellmasker.1649:

Obviously, you don’t get it. Half of us have repeatedly said “Just do away with the leaderboard, we don’t care. It’s not about that.”

Hellmasker.1649:

Ewon.5903:

I miss you guys <3

aww, my thread was archived

I miss you too sir. It was bittersweet to meet and pass you in AP. I hope someday you can return.

I thought this wasn’t about leader boards??? You are acknowledging that the leader board means something to you with that statement. It was “bittersweet” passing that person on the leader board. But I thought it wasn’t about the leader board?

Nike.2631:

I think the before-and-after ship has long since sailed since there’s a whole massive category of achievements recorded but no longer available… pretty much every Living Story achievement point ever…

Yeah, the living story thing is also part of all this but I’d prefer to leave it out for now because it isn’t that relevant to the discussion atm.

Nike.2631:

The discussion around the ‘total cap’ idea has not highlighted any substantial contras yet from what I’ve seen, so I think it would be the better option.

I would say from ArenaNet’s perspective a total cap on dailies is dead before it takes one step – the point of dailies is to give people a reason to return regularly. If you’ve maxed out you Dailies cap forever… players who log in for that reason are just gone. Unless I’m misunderstanding how this cap would work?

The number of this cap is also a point worth discussing. E.g. 20k points would take ~3 years of doing every daily every day, or 10+ years of doing 5 per day, if the amount stays roughly around 20 points per day. As you can see, this is a loooong term goal, similar to reaching rank 80 in PvP or maxing out 2 or 3 achievements in WvW. Now, do you think people will stop doing dailies if they reach this cap? Maybe. But these people are completionists. After this, they may turn around and grind out those pvp or wvw achieves and still complete the living story content (if there will be any).

Rick.5781:

2. I hate to say it, but the fact that you feel the need to complete all the dailys just to stay atop a leaderboard in a video game that has no impact on your quality of life, and do it even though you don’t consider it a fun use of your time, is a symptom of the obsessive compulsive spectrum of mental disorders.

I don’t care about the leaderboard, and I’ve said it at least 3-4 times in this thread alone. Had you read the thread you’d know it. I farm APs because I have fun doing it, what I don’t like is how dailies have grown to be the main AP source and how doing them all now takes 5-6 hours when it used to be 1-2h

Nike.2631:

The simpler solution in terms of structure is to have they dailies give 0 achievement points individually and each day has a 5 point meta-achievement for doing any 5 of the list. Then you can still see all 11ish of them, and you can even still do them if you must, but the AP incentive stops at 5.

I’m coming up on 10k (about 40 to go) and while I’ve managed to dial back to doing them faithfully rather than compulsively, I am looking forward to hitting that milestone and largely ignoring AP from that point on.

The problem with this system is it prevents any player to get more AP from dailies if he’s willing to. I personally wouldn’t mind but I understand how someone would like to be able to do a bit more dailies to reach the next achievement chest. That’s why I think my progressive cap is the better solution, as it does not affect anyone but completionists.

The best option is the “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” option. The system is fine and works for the vast majority of players in the game.

In my opinion the idea of a progressive cap has 2 things to consider:
1. It is a bit more work for anet to devise and implement than just adding a total cap.

2. Do people who did every achievement ever retroactively get subtracted a few hundred points when this system is introduced? Or do you set the cap so high that this won’t happen and make it very very hard to reach that progressive cap?

JustTrogdor.7892:

Hellmasker.1649:

Obviously, you don’t get it. Half of us have repeatedly said “Just do away with the leaderboard, we don’t care. It’s not about that.”

Hellmasker.1649:

Ewon.5903:

I miss you guys <3

aww, my thread was archived

I miss you too sir. It was bittersweet to meet and pass you in AP. I hope someday you can return.

I thought this wasn’t about leader boards??? You are acknowledging that the leader board means something to you with that statement. It was “bittersweet” passing that person on the leader board. But I thought it wasn’t about the leader board?

Lol where did I say anything about leaderboards in my response to Ewon? Trying to catch me in a lie I’m not telling for – Oh my god, would you believe it? – having a GOAL?
Give it up princess. You’ve said your part, repeatedly now. We understand your qualms, and quite frankly, as the conversation has evolved, they’re pretty much irrelevant.
Goodbye.

It would be great if a dev could pop in and give us any indication at all about how they feel about this proposed change, that’d be fantastic. I know you guys are reading it cause one of you changed the thread title, and it’s only getting the view count it is because it has the little red “ANet posted here” icon on it.
Whether it’s being talked about or would be hard to implement for whatever reason, or even if you guys are completely against the idea, could you let us know? So we can accept the fate of achievements as they’re panning out or plan accordingly to a solution you might’ve worked out?
Thanks for the constructive posts, those of you that’ve brought them.

The conversation might have evolved a little, but the solutions sure haven’t gotten any better.

I still think that the best system would be to have Leaderboards expanded and make it to where we have seperate leaderboards that track Total, Permanent, Daily, Monthly, and temporary Living World Achievements. Let people filter out what they want to and don’t want to see. This way, the most dedicated will still be the highest achievers in all the land, and those that don’t want to do all the dailies anymore, will still be on top of their respective leaderboards.

Chrispy.5641:

The conversation might have evolved a little, but the solutions sure haven’t gotten any better.

I still think that the best system would be to have Leaderboards expanded and make it to where we have seperate leaderboards that track Total, Permanent, Daily, Monthly, and temporary Living World Achievements. Let people filter out what they want to and don’t want to see. This way, the most dedicated will still be the highest achievers in all the land, and those that don’t want to do all the dailies anymore, will still be on top of their respective leaderboards.

Lmao you just don’t get it.
The “most dedicated,” as you put it, don’t care about the leaderboards. They want to finish everything they can for the sake of finishing it.
With no cap on dailies, there’s no ‘finish’ to it.

Hellmasker.1649:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Hellmasker.1649:

Obviously, you don’t get it. Half of us have repeatedly said “Just do away with the leaderboard, we don’t care. It’s not about that.”

Hellmasker.1649:

Ewon.5903:

I miss you guys <3

aww, my thread was archived

I miss you too sir. It was bittersweet to meet and pass you in AP. I hope someday you can return.

I thought this wasn’t about leader boards??? You are acknowledging that the leader board means something to you with that statement. It was “bittersweet” passing that person on the leader board. But I thought it wasn’t about the leader board?

Lol where did I say anything about leaderboards in my response to Ewon?

If you don’t care about the leader board why was it “bittersweet” when you passed him?

Hellmasker.1649:

Give it up princess.

I’m glad to see you can hold it together in this conversation.

Hellmasker.1649:

Chrispy.5641:

The conversation might have evolved a little, but the solutions sure haven’t gotten any better.

I still think that the best system would be to have Leaderboards expanded and make it to where we have seperate leaderboards that track Total, Permanent, Daily, Monthly, and temporary Living World Achievements. Let people filter out what they want to and don’t want to see. This way, the most dedicated will still be the highest achievers in all the land, and those that don’t want to do all the dailies anymore, will still be on top of their respective leaderboards.

Lmao you just don’t get it.
The “most dedicated,” as you put it, don’t care about the leaderboards. They want to finish everything they can for the sake of finishing it.
With no cap on dailies, there’s no ‘finish’ to it.

There isn’t supposed to be a ‘finish’. There never will be a ‘finish’. Every new living story, every new added content brings more achievements. It’s an MMO. The worst thing they could ever add is a ‘finish’.

Hellmasker.1649:

Chrispy.5641:

The conversation might have evolved a little, but the solutions sure haven’t gotten any better.

I still think that the best system would be to have Leaderboards expanded and make it to where we have seperate leaderboards that track Total, Permanent, Daily, Monthly, and temporary Living World Achievements. Let people filter out what they want to and don’t want to see. This way, the most dedicated will still be the highest achievers in all the land, and those that don’t want to do all the dailies anymore, will still be on top of their respective leaderboards.

Lmao you just don’t get it.
The “most dedicated,” as you put it, don’t care about the leaderboards. They want to finish everything they can for the sake of finishing it.
With no cap on dailies, there’s no ‘finish’ to it.

There is no finish in any MMO as long as it still has developer support. That’s the whole point of a persistent world and ongoing development. You might be able to finish what’s there, but more will come. Same as it does with the dailies. Do you make the same complaint every time a new Living Story strand is added? Every time a new PvP season starts? Every time there’s a new holiday celebration?

This isn’t an xbox live arcade or psn game. There is no platinum trophy. There is no 100/100 permanent finish line, and there was never intended to be. If you can’t handle that, it’s probably not the right game genre for you. Have you considered Mario?

Hm, this might be an unpopular opinion or it might not, but I don’t agree that a finish to a specific part of achievement points is ‘the worst thing’. It would be akin to the cap in PvP rank or WvW level, doesn’t do anything much if you get there but you can get there with a lot of effort/time. This distinction between an MMO and other genres bwillb put out there is not a rule, I’d like to know where that mindset came from, because quite a few MMOs had closure in terms of what you can achieve.

VOLKON.1290:

There isn’t supposed to be a ‘finish’. There never will be a ‘finish’. Every new living story, every new added content brings more achievements. It’s an MMO. The worst thing they could ever add is a ‘finish’.

And I wholeheartedly agree with the bolded part. However. Why not make those newly added achievements permanent? And what does it have to do with dailies which are the main subject of this debate? Temporary living story achievements are a problem for me and daily achievements are an ultra problem becouse they are basically same thing as LS achievements but exponentiated. In the case of former perhaps you can squeeze in some seaside vacations and still complete them (but dont you dare book a longer holidays, no Sir, unless you make sure there is a good Wi-Fi on the spot). In case of the latter you cant even visit your granny outside of town on her birthday becouse you will miss your dailies. Wonderful system.

I agree with Volkon. This is an MMO, with an ever changing world. There should be no finish line. There should be no 100%.

And also. Why would you even count Dailies and Monthlies, and even Living World Achievements in your quest to get to the finish line? The Finish Line should only include permanent achievements anyhow. Dailies and Monthlies are meant to be distractions, not something to be religiously done every day, and if you are really not concerned about leaderboards and only a finish line, there is no reason to change the way achievements work.

Since people seems soo attached to the current leaderboard, I suggest to not touch it. However Anet could add a leaderboard of permanent AP to satisfy others.

Achievements can go a long way, then again I might be leading more towards events over Achievements. I have some examples below…

Guild Achievements – This is going to become a Guild focused game isn’kitten Why not add some Guild Achievements that reward you with points and in turn rewards your Guild with influence?

Dungeon Achievements This could work like the ones we already have, but with a lot more that start at the beginning of every dungeon you do. They could be random as well! Like Killing every boss rewards you with a Dungeon achievement along with extra token bonus loot?

Home Instance Achievements – I suppose this lingers more into your Personal story.. but why not turn your Home instance into more of a base, AS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE, with say a portal to the Order you chose to join? This could not only offer customization to your Home instance with Vigil/Priory/Whispers flags, banners, and NPC’s roaming about your home, but also provide you to interact with some that give you special Event tasks that reward you with Order Achievements?

Order Achievements could also give you this random bag that gives you coin and say a new currency for the Orders? I mean, if they plan to improve on the Orders and their rewards, why buy their weapons/armor with gold when you can just introduce a new currency like Vigil Badges or something?

Chrispy.5641:

Why would you even count Dailies and Monthlies, and even Living World Achievements in your quest to get to the finish line? The Finish Line should only include permanent achievements anyhow.

Good call. Maybe dailies shouldn’t reward any AP at all.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Hellmasker.1649:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Hellmasker.1649:

Obviously, you don’t get it. Half of us have repeatedly said “Just do away with the leaderboard, we don’t care. It’s not about that.”

Hellmasker.1649:

Ewon.5903:

I miss you guys <3

aww, my thread was archived

I miss you too sir. It was bittersweet to meet and pass you in AP. I hope someday you can return.

I thought this wasn’t about leader boards??? You are acknowledging that the leader board means something to you with that statement. It was “bittersweet” passing that person on the leader board. But I thought it wasn’t about the leader board?

Lol where did I say anything about leaderboards in my response to Ewon?

If you don’t care about the leader board why was it “bittersweet” when you passed him?

How are you still grasping at these straws? How are you not getting it?
I wanted to catch up to him but not because he quit. I would ask what else I have to sing to you but I’ve been singing everything all along and you STILL aren’t catching on.

Hellmasker.1649:

Chrispy.5641:

Why would you even count Dailies and Monthlies, and even Living World Achievements in your quest to get to the finish line? The Finish Line should only include permanent achievements anyhow.

Good call. Maybe dailies shouldn’t reward any AP at all.

Or maybe they should and you should pretend they don’t.

Tyrantis.8640:

Hi Anet Achievement team.

I wanted to chime in and say I actually love dailies and it doesn’t seem like too much to me (also a completionist)

My guild loves them as does my brother.

Can you do me a favor? Keep up the good work.

P.S. Add weeklys too!

:)

Requested weeklies back in the day when dailies began, I hope your post let’s them know that hey, they need weeklies badly.

I agree the last incarnation of the dailies i experienced were well worth it and were simple to achieve. Even some of the monthlies were quite agreeable for us filthy casuals to complete.

I would love to see some more items available from doing these however, like cosmetics available that cost a small amount of laurels.

I want more titles. Cool ones. For living story achievements not just boss events.

Shanna.4762:

I want more titles. Cool ones. For living story achievements not just boss events.

Yeah I’m kind of surprised there isn’t a “Puppetmaster” title for the current living story…

i would like an achievement that rewards achieving something, killing X of X is not my idea of an achievement…..

Daily are (and especially pvp one) too much time consuming. If you want to do ALL daily you have to ‘waste’ more than 5h. GW1 had a better “title” system
If anet care of player who have a job or some irl, they need to do something. For now, a fix they can even add to the tomorrow release is for daily pvp
change : Arena win (solo or team) → Participate

I wanted to bump this and thank anet for this upcoming change which is a huge QoL improvement to many of us.

There are a few other general changes to daily achievements. There will be a limit of 10,000 daily and 5,000 monthly achievement points
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pvp-reward-tracks-and-gear-unification/

Question: If one already has over that cap (I don’t know if anyone does, I haven’t looked closely at my AP sources and I’m at 11.5K or so), do they lose AP? And once you hit the cap, how much slower is it going to be to get to the next chest? With the Radiant set arranged to take ungodly amounts of AP to complete, losing daily/monthly sources means it just won’t be doable in any reasonable amount of time.

REJOICE!
I was coming to necro this thread myself to say THANK YOU ANET! You’ve made my life so much easier. I can skip the boring/time consuming dailies with no regret and every daily I’ve missed due to bugs or glitches or simply running out of time can now be made up. Thank you!!! I’m so excited to just enjoy this game and hunt other achievements alongside my friends, guildies, and other fellow players. You’ve done wonders for my interest in this game and I’ll be buying more gems tomorrow to show my appreciation, and a commander tag to lead my server to victory. Thank you thank you thank you!!
REJOICE!

I don’t know if someone hit the cap already, I stopped doing dailies since december and only have about 7k daily ap. Maybe someone for the top 10 can say something about that.

I’m at #16, and my daily AP is just over 9k. I have heard that Venge has never missed a daily ever, but I’ve only missed a handful, so he would be closer but I doubt he’d be up to 10k yet.

Nausicaa.9563:

I wanted to bump this and thank anet for this upcoming change which is a huge QoL improvement to many of us.

There are a few other general changes to daily achievements. There will be a limit of 10,000 daily and 5,000 monthly achievement points
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pvp-reward-tracks-and-gear-unification/

I saw that post on the PVP update and I was wondering if that only affects PVP or does it affect all dailys/monthys game wide? I completely agree with it if it is game wide. I found it ridiculous that some one who doesn’t do any of the real achievements in the game can still surpass someone who just does them with daily/monthly achievement points. It made some of the LS story achievements not worth doing because a couple dailys would be easier. I would just like conformation that this isnt just a PVP limitation.

It said general changes, plus they are unifying the UI to no longer distinguish between PVP and PVE dailies and monthlies. So it is a cap to all dailies and monthlies.

Hellmasker.1649:

REJOICE!
REJOICE!

+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1

Thank you Anet!

So, I guess the question is, is the cap going to be managed by a rolling time frame? This would imply that you can lose achievement points if you stop or don’t keep up. The next question being if you drop below a rewards threshold what happens when you surpass it again.?

It’s not truly a rolling structure, then at some point laurels aren’t needed, which of course, with 500JC and account bound trinkets kind of makes the best use of laurels almost unnecessary.

I’m #19 at the moment and I miss dailies quite often. I only have 8484 daily points at the moment so this will bump me up in ranks a bit. That’s quite cool.

JasperHuff.8472:

…then at some point laurels aren’t needed, which of course, with 500JC and account bound trinkets kind of makes the best use of laurels almost unnecessary.

I was thinking this same thought with the dye announcement. The need for laurels most certainly seems to be phasing out. It reminds me of the karma nerf and now champs won’t drop gold….it appears as though we are headed to a single currency market except for dungeon tokens. Gold/gems.

EDIT: for clarity as gems and gold are synonymous

Rezz.8019:

I’m #19 at the moment and I miss dailies quite often. I only have 8484 daily points at the moment so this will bump me up in ranks a bit. That’s quite cool.

Can tell you are on NA servers. I got 8938 from dailies and only rank 22, would be 8 if move to NA.
Monthly I got 1675.

Rank #5 EU has 9247 daily and 1700 monthly, asked him just now.

The fact that certain players see options as something they MUST complete instead of a choice is not something that Anet should be concerned with or change the game for. That is the POV of that small group of players which they should govern themselves.

I like the current system. I can do the dailies and if I feel like it I can get some extra AP by completing more. I disagree with the idea of only giving AP for the 5 completed dailies.

Regardless of the intent of the suggestion, I suspect Anet simply see’s this as another way to force PvE players into the other parts of the game. I just wish they would check to see if they move to another part or another game.

Someone said there’s 3 groups of Devs working separately, but you can bet the other 2 are saying “We want the PvE players here too”, whether they want to or not.

Having reached the acclaimed tag, I have a fair amount of AP but I have never looked at any leader board and never will. Leader boards are very counter productive, except at the top, and simply drive a lot of players away.

With this change it now means that when I reach that 10k goal, it’s the final goal, and I then find a new game. Yes Anet, a very interesting business plan…

Djinn.9245:

The fact that certain players see options as something they MUST complete instead of a choice is not something that Anet should be concerned with or change the game for. That is the POV of that small group of players which they should govern themselves.

Completely agree with this.

Tumult.2578:

Regardless of the intent of the suggestion, I suspect Anet simply see’s this as another way to force PvE players into the other parts of the game. I just wish they would check to see if they move to another part or another game.

Someone said there’s 3 groups of Devs working separately, but you can bet the other 2 are saying “We want the PvE players here too”, whether they want to or not.

Having reached the acclaimed tag, I have a fair amount of AP but I have never looked at any leader board and never will. Leader boards are very counter productive, except at the top, and simply drive a lot of players away.

With this change it now means that when I reach that 10k goal, it’s the final goal, and I then find a new game. Yes Anet, a very interesting business plan…

And this as well.

With the new cap on daily and monthly AP, quite possibly the majority of players will leave the game since their rewards are being systematically taken away or will leave when they can no longer get AP for their playstyle. Which is sad really. Loss of people equals loss of gem store sales.

Tumult, does this mean you only played GW2 to get daily points? What about doing dungeons, or living story, or PvP/WvW. Did you never try them out? If you have, you notice there are a lot of points to be gotten there, which you can approach anytime now instead of doing dailies.

Celtic Lady.3729:

With the new cap on daily and monthly AP, quite possibly the majority of players will leave the game since their rewards are being systematically taken away or will leave when they can no longer get AP for their playstyle. Which is sad really. Loss of people equals loss of gem store sales.

I doubt the majority would leave but definitely some would. For every positive change (i.e. wardrobe), there seems to have to be a negative change (i.e. daily / monthly AP cap). The latter change is unnecessary and will probably drive us away from the game at a certain point.

I imagine once players reach a certain point, which for a lot of us will be soon, and they get less and less rewards (AP is a reward since you can get chests) they’re going to walk away.