Guild Wars 2

So, a dev said somewhere (i cant find it) or on a ready up, that the mystic forge woulkd be changed, improved to give better results for what you threw in.

I waited for the patch notes, and sure enough:

“Some Mystic Forge recipes have been updated to provide a wider range of results”

4x level 80 exotic hammers = 1 level 76 exotic hammer.

ehngfjngp;oewjspgojw[oj

Just for giggles I threw in 40 rare greatswords. Final results I was left with: 2 un-named exotics and 2 nothing special rares.

Still no better than usual.

Safari i had the same result last night xD 4 exo lvl 80 = 1 staff lvl 75 Wthhhh is going on.
Nine-

Not only that, but you can’t combine armor with weapons anymore…
“allowing for more variation in output” my kitten …

Every time anet says that they are improving rewards, it often means the exact opposite. See the March fractal update that significantly nerfed ascended boxes and fractal weapon drop rates.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Well to be fair this did technically give you a wider range of outputs…

previously 4 level 80’s would only give you a lvl 80 back… now you can get worse rewards too… so they did exactly what they said they would…

That’s pretty much always how Anet operates.

What a shame. /smh

You didn’t really expect otherwise, did you?

Monkey Paw wishes/promises from Anet as usual.

Romo.3709:

Not only that, but you can’t combine armor with weapons anymore…
“allowing for more variation in output” my kitten …

Are you sure about that, I was able to throw in Rare lvl 80 armor and weapons together earlier today, patched maybe unless you meant exotic armor and weapons, in which case you could never mix them.

As for the 4 x lvl 80 exo’s giving a lvl 76 back, that has to be a bug.

The garbage we get from this game gets worse with almost every update.

Ok I Did It.2854:

As for the 4 x lvl 80 exo’s giving a lvl 76 back, that has to be a bug.

A bug or the dumbest undocumented change in the history of gaming.

I’m sticking with bug.

khani.4786:

Just for giggles I threw in 40 rare greatswords. Final results I was left with: 2 un-named exotics and 2 nothing special rares.

Still no better than usual.

That would account for 16 of your greatswords, what else did you get?

In 10 uses, I would probably end up with 2 exotics, 8 rares, throw the 8 rares back in, get 1 exotic 1 rare. That’s pretty average for me. Never any precursors of course.

Sounds like nothing has changed honestly. Same ole toilet.

EDIT: Obviously you threw the rares back in and got more rares, duh. Dunno what I was thinking….

Draknar.5748:

khani.4786:

Just for giggles I threw in 40 rare greatswords. Final results I was left with: 2 un-named exotics and 2 nothing special rares.

Still no better than usual.

That would account for 16 of your greatswords, what else did you get?

In 10 uses, I would probably end up with 2 exotics, 8 rares, throw the 8 rares back in, get 1 exotic 1 rare. That’s pretty average for me. Never any precursors of course.

Sounds like nothing has changed honestly. Same ole toilet.

EDIT: Obviously you threw the rares back in and got more rares, duh. Dunno what I was thinking….

Yep, threw the rares back in and got more rares….same ol’ toilet.

khani.4786:

Yep, threw the rares back in and got more rares….same ol’ toilet.

Same old toilet would have given back an equal or higher item back, not lower by 4 levels

Romo.3709:

Not only that, but you can’t combine armor with weapons anymore…
“allowing for more variation in output” my kitten …

Crap, that just made the mystic forge daily tougher. Assuming it still exists.

Safari.3021:

So, a dev said somewhere (i cant find it) or on a ready up, that the mystic forge woulkd be changed, improved to give better results for what you threw in.

I waited for the patch notes, and sure enough:

“Some Mystic Forge recipes have been updated to provide a wider range of results”

4x level 80 exotic hammers = 1 level 76 exotic hammer.

ehngfjngp;oewjspgojw[oj

Were you referring to this thread?

“Posted by: John Smith

The mystic forge changes are a work in progress. What I will promise is that when it is done you will like it much better than you do now."

Not sure when it is supposed to be done but like you I would not hold my breath regarding anything loot related to be favorable to the player base….counter productive to buying gems for gold and the almighty TP.

“…This is just a stepping stone to further changes that will make the Mystic Forge a much better experience in the future. Please note: the rate of precursors will not be affected.” -John “Nerfer” Smith

Isn’t the bolded part blatantly a lie? the mere fact were getting non-lvl80 exotics now seems to suggest that the chance of getting precursors has been lowered by adding a level RNG to the mystic toilet recipe.

In fact, doesn’t this change seem to be contributing to the ridiculously large inflation seen in precursors right now (along with the champ train nerf and wardrobe legendary reskinning function)?

Why would you do this, anet? The Mystic Toilet is already awful.
To turn the awfulness up to 11 is insanity.

80 gear should ALWAYS return 80 gear, full stop.

This isn’t an improvement, just like everything else you’ve implemented this patch, it’s one step “forward” (massive sarcasm quotes) and about fifty steps backward.

By any chance did you in-game report this as a bug?

Just assuming that it is working as intended and this was intentional (a LVL 76 from 4 LVL 80s) to screw you over is not a realistic view (no matter how many “Anet screws us again”, comments are made).

Yeah I reported it as a bug, not intending to touch forge for a bit now

Safari.3021:

So, a dev said somewhere (i cant find it) or on a ready up, that the mystic forge woulkd be changed, improved to give better results for what you threw in.

I waited for the patch notes, and sure enough:

“Some Mystic Forge recipes have been updated to provide a wider range of results”

4x level 80 exotic hammers = 1 level 76 exotic hammer.

ehngfjngp;oewjspgojw[oj

I’m not sure if you’re trolling or just can’t read.

They said the results would be wider, meaning for different variations of weapon/outcomes. It says NOTHING about making the rewards BETTER.

yet if you actually read the replys here, there are two dev quotes people have found stating mystic forge would give better results.

Im not sure if you are trolling or just can’t read.

Probably Johns Smith thougt that manipulating precursors was too hard and felt it needed a buff.

Ok, knowing what the MF is like, even if they said they improved some possible combos, why would you even try to use it?

Romo.3709:

Not only that, but you can’t combine armor with weapons anymore…
“allowing for more variation in output” my kitten …

ummm, I just did – whut?

I noticed the sharp dropoff, too; but I had this thing rattling around “… well, maybe they nerfed it and introduced new combinations we’ve not yet discovered…”

one can hope?

KarateKid.5648:

I noticed the sharp dropoff, too; but I had this thing rattling around “… well, maybe they nerfed it and introduced new combinations we’ve not yet discovered…”

one can hope?

If there was a trade-off of more recipes but worse RNG drops in the toilet, then I think some of us MIGHT consider the mystic toilet becoming “a better experience.” But so far, no news on new recipes in game, in forum, or in the wiki…

Seems to be the ANet trend: getting worse. Can’t we have an update where they don’t ruin something?

Romo.3709:

Not only that, but you can’t combine armor with weapons anymore…
“allowing for more variation in output” my kitten …

You’ve never been able to combine exotic armor with exotic weapons in the forge. You can still combine rare, masterwork, and fine armor with weapons.

RoseofGilead.8907:

Romo.3709:

Not only that, but you can’t combine armor with weapons anymore…
“allowing for more variation in output” my kitten …

You’ve never been able to combine exotic armor with exotic weapons in the forge.

Incorrect.

You just haven’t been able to for a good long while. Quite a few months… possibly a year.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

RoseofGilead.8907:

Romo.3709:

Not only that, but you can’t combine armor with weapons anymore…
“allowing for more variation in output” my kitten …

You’ve never been able to combine exotic armor with exotic weapons in the forge.

Incorrect.

You just haven’t been able to for a good long while. Quite a few months… possibly a year.

Oh yeah, you’re right. You could for a period of time. But yeah. It’s been at least a year since you could do that.

Just as a general comment, I flushed 16 major runes yesterday and got 3 Superiors (Divinity, Travellers & Air) in a row. RNG is RNG.

(4th was some Major I don’t recall and is in my bank waiting for some more to flush).

Bump this. I remember there was a comment/post that we’re going to ‘love’ the new mystic forge. I seriously wonder who thought we would love increased chances at getting items we don’t want and lower level items from higher level stuff? Like people wanted a new mystic forge with more random chance?

Imaginos.3756:

Monkey Paw wishes/promises from Anet as usual.

Very much so!

By the way, I got infracted for making a thread about the Monkey’s Paw.

But… But.. I always wanted to receive even more useless level 70 exotics when I put my level 80’s in the forge. /Mysticforgenerf2014neverforget

I even never saw a kittening exotic bellow 80 lvl LoL keep buying those legendaries because Anet is doing everything to keep their price rise, soon you’ll be paying 10k+ for this kitten.

Safari.3021:

So, a dev said somewhere (i cant find it) or on a ready up, that the mystic forge woulkd be changed, improved to give better results for what you threw in.

I waited for the patch notes, and sure enough:

“Some Mystic Forge recipes have been updated to provide a wider range of results”

4x level 80 exotic hammers = 1 level 76 exotic hammer.

ehngfjngp;oewjspgojw[oj

What this what you were looking for?

John Smith.4610:

The mystic forge changes are a work in progress. What I will promise is that when it is done you will like it much better than you do now.

Safari.3021:

So, a dev said somewhere (i cant find it) or on a ready up, that the mystic forge woulkd be changed, improved to give better results for what you threw in.

I waited for the patch notes, and sure enough:

“Some Mystic Forge recipes have been updated to provide a wider range of results”

4x level 80 exotic hammers = 1 level 76 exotic hammer.

ehngfjngp;oewjspgojw[oj

It hasn’t changed – it is based on a random number generator – what do you expect?

Dusty Moon.4382:

Safari.3021:

So, a dev said somewhere (i cant find it) or on a ready up, that the mystic forge woulkd be changed, improved to give better results for what you threw in.

I waited for the patch notes, and sure enough:

“Some Mystic Forge recipes have been updated to provide a wider range of results”

4x level 80 exotic hammers = 1 level 76 exotic hammer.

ehngfjngp;oewjspgojw[oj

It hasn’t changed – it is based on a random number generator – what do you expect?

Before the patch, putting 4 level 80 weapons would always result in a level 80 weapon. Not 76+ one. So, in a way, MF does now provide wider range of results – it;s just that those added results are worse than what we could get before.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Safari.3021:

So, a dev said somewhere (i cant find it) or on a ready up, that the mystic forge woulkd be changed, improved to give better results for what you threw in.

I waited for the patch notes, and sure enough:

“Some Mystic Forge recipes have been updated to provide a wider range of results”

4x level 80 exotic hammers = 1 level 76 exotic hammer.

ehngfjngp;oewjspgojw[oj

It hasn’t changed – it is based on a random number generator – what do you expect?

It WAS changed; from experience and from the unupdated wiki (mystic forge before):

“Equipment:
Four pieces of equipment of the same quality can be combined in the forge. …In addition, the output equipment will be 5-12 levels higher than the average of the levels of the four piece of input equipment. There is also a roughly 20% chance of receiving a higher quality item. This has a chance of producing soul-bound equipment sold by Karma Merchants.”

The bolded part is where its changed; throwing in four lvl 80 exotics now gives equips LOWER than the average of those four pieces thrown into the toilet.

Please, can you not spread false information? If you are not trying out the equipment aspect of the “better” MF in this patch (as most of us posters here are doing), at least do the research.

Zommoros must be heavily drunk with all that wine, or working with Evon to scam you even more out of the things you throw to his forge. Get higher level gear give them low level gear they don’t need!

Perfect business!

What the mystic forge is guaranteed result versions of his recipes, not more annoying randomness.

For example: A stack of 50 of a masterwork rune + 3 other materials→ Rare version of that rune. Stack of 25 of that rare rune + 3 other materials → Exotic version of that rune.

Randomness is never a good source of anything. There has to be always a guaranteed method.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Zommoros must be heavily drunk with all that wine, or working with Evon to scam you even more out of the things you throw to his forge. Get higher level gear give them low level gear they don’t need!

Perfect business!

What the mystic forge is guaranteed result versions of his recipes, not more annoying randomness.

For example: A stack of 50 of a masterwork rune + 3 other materials-> Rare version of that rune. Stack of 25 of that rare rune + 3 other materials -> Exotic version of that rune.

Randomness is never a good source of anything. There has to be always a guaranteed method.

The sheer ingratitude of peeps. Evon has just given us free armor repair.

I just got Dusk out of it so it can’t be doing too badly.

(Yearly Brag post: check!)

From what I’ve seen the exotic tables just have the 75-79 exotics on them now; the rare tables are unchanged, and I’ll take in on faith that they haven’t messed with the precursor rate. This hasn’t really changed the value of forge output much – the rare that pop out are still 80s, you get more runes and sigils than you used to from the 75-79 exotics always having runes or sigils, and the value of a 75 exotic isn’t even lower than an 80; it’s really hard to buy up enough low level exotics that you’re short on levels not exotics.

There might be a real loss if the rate of named exotics has dropped, but I haven’t pulled enough data yet to test that conclusively.

Ensign.2189:

From what I’ve seen the exotic tables just have the 75-79 exotics on them now; the rare tables are unchanged, and I’ll take in on faith that they haven’t messed with the precursor rate. This hasn’t really changed the value of forge output much – the rare that pop out are still 80s, you get more runes and sigils than you used to from the 75-79 exotics always having runes or sigils, and the value of a 75 exotic isn’t even lower than an 80; it’s really hard to buy up enough low level exotics that you’re short on levels not exotics.

There might be a real loss if the rate of named exotics has dropped, but I haven’t pulled enough data yet to test that conclusively.

Rares do give back 80s and such when it spews back a rare, but what if it upgrades itself to an exotic? I haven’t tested it yet, but doesn’t it have that trashy chance of getting something below 80 now?

Regarding the exotics, that is assuming that the weapons in question have good sigils, and some of us do throw in cheap underwater exotics + mystic forge stones to get precursors (thats how I got my incinerator).

To me, both these issues (2nd one being much more concrete) is lowering named weapons from dropping, and indirectly precursor drop rates since named weapons and precursors must be 80 to appear at the forge (this is why you can’t throw in exotics or rares that were underleveled before).

John N. Smith was probably telling the truth when they did not change precursor drop rates (0.80% from the forge when the four items meet the required levels), but there is sophistry involved when he left out the part where Anet made the level-RNG part of the MF precursor and named weapons more ludicrously difficult with this patch.

zenleto.6179:

I just got Dusk out of it so it can’t be doing too badly.

(Yearly Brag post: check!)

Congrats!!!!!

MithranArkanere.8957:

What the mystic forge is guaranteed result versions of his recipes, not more annoying randomness.

For example: A stack of 50 of a masterwork rune + 3 other materials-> Rare version of that rune. Stack of 25 of that rare rune + 3 other materials -> Exotic version of that rune.

Randomness is never a good source of anything. There has to be always a guaranteed method.

I’d be fine with a definitive progress token of some sort. And I don’t mean a chance at a token kitten Mystic Clover), but an actual guarantee of progress. Simple Skinner box, people. Simple.

Anyway, I outlined this in another thread but it bears repeating.

For example, because precursors are all the rage right now:

4 rares of the same type → 1 random rare/exotic + 1-5 precursor fragments of that type
250 Precursor Fragments + 1 Exotic weapon of the same type (ie, a gold sink)+ special item from mystic forge vendor (karma or laurel sink) + another item from the mystic forge vendor (skill point sink) yields the coveted Precursor.

That would remove the randomness of receiving one, and a player would have immediate feedback and motivation to press toward making that precursor. It would still be easier, faster, and probably cheaper to buy the precursor off the trading post and it would moderate the prices.

Not to be insulting, but really, devs. Game theory, player conditioning… This is stuff that should be obvious. :\