Guild Wars 2

So were these the only parts that were considered to be bugs?
besides the ones already fixed of course.

See? That’s the kind of feed back we want from you.

You’re restoring our faith <3

I take it that the developer are maintaining that elite are still unlocked at lvl40, and other utilities are still unlocked at a much later level. Because they think lvl1-15 speed up should compensate it?

Gaile Gray.6029:

Fernling.1729:

So were these the only parts that were considered to be bugs?
besides the ones already fixed of course.

Nah. That’s what the “other aspects are being considered” means. The team is open to suggestions. From what I understand, this should not be considered a final list.

Thanks for asking.

I was more trying to figure out what were considered the bugs and what was considered intentional, but this more or less answers that. It sounds like most of the changes that upset a lot of people were intentional. It also appears you guys are open to feedback and things could be changed based upon this feedback.
Great to hear because there is a ton of feedback going on.

Gaile Gray.6029:

• Plot holes and story inconsistencies that may have been introduced with story realignment

Could we get more details on this? Only then can we actually give feedback.

Diovid.9506:

Gaile Gray.6029:

• Plot holes and story inconsistencies that may have been introduced with story realignment

Could we get more details on this? Only then can we actually give feedback.

Based on the fact that Gaile said they will be making updates in the future, I would say details are not finalized yet.

Diovid.9506:

Gaile Gray.6029:

• Plot holes and story inconsistencies that may have been introduced with story realignment

Could we get more details on this? Only then can we actually give feedback.

It sounds like details will be given as soon as they’re ready. If they knew they probably would have told us in the OP.

Finally, thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did i mention i love your game?

Lucius.2140:

Finally, thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did i mention i love your game?

What parts of the patch disappointed you?
What part of Gaile’s post made you happy?

Awesome, that made me smile. Thanks!

Fernling.1729:

Lucius.2140:

Finally, thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did i mention i love your game?

What parts of the patch disappointed you?
What part of Gaile’s post made you happy?

Of course the history part been checked. Hope they reintegrate the great fears chapter (that was the disapointment, that and the starter zones).

Gaile Gray.6029:

• Addressing an issue with bundles that prematurely unlocked utility and elite skills

Personally, I’m glad this bug was found. I don’t want this fixed, at least not without alleviating some of the level-gating on veteran players. Having to wait until SO FAR into my character’s career to have access to a full ability rotation just feels awful.

Having to wait until level 40 just to start getting used to my rotation that I’m going to be using for literally the entire rest of my GW2 career is… painful. I think vets should be able to unlock these abilities by MAYBE 25. That way, we can get used to using all of our abilities, and feel like a “complete” character, that much sooner.

Thank you very much, good to hear that !!

My feedback : Right now, it’s not a New Player Experience, but rather a New Character Experience.
To make it a NPE, you should make theses changes only apply for the first character created.
An easiest learn of curve could be a New Profession Experience, theses changes only apply when you make a character with a new profession (one you don’t have already).
How could this be implemented ?
Of course, you can’t rework everything, but maybe you could give access to all traits/skills sooner when you’ve unlocked the title “Profession_Name Master” (Guardian Master, Warrior Master and so on…).
How do you unlock this title ?
A/ Option 1:You have to level a character from this profession to level 80. (EDIT : at second thought, it would be too easy, should not be considered)
B/ Option2: You have to level a character from this profession to level 80 and unlock all skills/traits.
C/ Option 3:You have to level a character from this profession to level 80, unlock all skills and traits and get 100% map completion.
When you’ve mastered a profession, if you create a character with this profession, he gets access to all utility skills at lvl 20, even if level 1-15 is faster, and unlock all traits from tier 1 at level 20, all traits from tier 2 at level 40 and tier 3 at lvl 60.
That way you don’t have to farm traits over and over, and you can level alts without having to grind.

Ok, some other stuff missing from that list:

• Replacing the missing profession mechanics UI for the Elementalist, Engineer, and Guardian professions

• Offhand weapon not unlocking until level 7

• Weapon Swapping not unlocking until level 15

• Utilities 7, 8, 9, and 0 not unlocking until levels 13, 24, 35, and 40 respectively

• Underwater combat not unlocking until level 8, underwater skill 5 not unlocking until level 23

• Most juvenile pets missing from starting zones

• Mechanics of many early heart quests reduced to make them more boring.

• Apples missing from apple orchard

I may still be missing a few, but fixing those need to be a priority as well.

Yes! YES! YES!

/15ashlegioncharr

I’d like to see some of the better features of the lower level maps return (golem chess, karma items such as wolf potions, etc etc) In “simplifying” the lowbie maps, you’ve removed a lot of the fun and unique aspects of them

Ohoni.6057:

Ok, some other stuff missing from that list:

• Replacing the missing profession mechanics UI for the Elementalist, Engineer, and Guardian professions

• Offhand weapon not unlocking until level 7

• Weapon Swapping not unlocking until level 15

• Utilities 7, 8, 9, and 0 not unlocking until levels 13, 24, 35, and 40 respectively

• Underwater combat not unlocking until level 8, underwater skill 5 not unlocking until level 23

• Most juvenile pets missing from starting zones

• Mechanics of many early heart quests reduced to make them more boring.

• Apples missing from apple orchard

I may still be missing a few, but fixing those need to be a priority as well.

Good luck with that list, the level unlocks are the core of NPE, not bugs.

Ohoni.6057:

Ok, some other stuff missing from that list:

• Replacing the missing profession mechanics UI for the Elementalist, Engineer, and Guardian professions

• Offhand weapon not unlocking until level 7

• Weapon Swapping not unlocking until level 15

• Utilities 7, 8, 9, and 0 not unlocking until levels 13, 24, 35, and 40 respectively

• Underwater combat not unlocking until level 8, underwater skill 5 not unlocking until level 23

• Most juvenile pets missing from starting zones

• Mechanics of many early heart quests reduced to make them more boring.

• Apples missing from apple orchard

I may still be missing a few, but fixing those need to be a priority as well.

That’s what I’m thinking. This doesn’t address the main reasons the forums/game blew up with disappointment.

Acinonyx came up with a fantastic idea: Just apply the changes to the first character created.

Of course, even better would be some sort of setting we can toggle on and off, since honestly, until we can get some sort of HM option, playing with new characters has become quite painful.

Could we at least retain the option to do higher level personal story, at our own risk? Since when I hit the next x0 level, the story content is already quite trivial to stroll through. Tbh, I probably could do level 40 story at level 30 no problem. But that would be whole lot more interesting than doing level 40 story at level 40, when I’m guaranteed success. (Is it really success if it is just handed to me? Winning gold medal doesn’t really feel like winning gold medal if they’re handed out at the entrance to the arena.)

Behellagh.1468:

Ohoni.6057:

Ok, some other stuff missing from that list:

• Replacing the missing profession mechanics UI for the Elementalist, Engineer, and Guardian professions

• Offhand weapon not unlocking until level 7

• Weapon Swapping not unlocking until level 15

• Utilities 7, 8, 9, and 0 not unlocking until levels 13, 24, 35, and 40 respectively

• Underwater combat not unlocking until level 8, underwater skill 5 not unlocking until level 23

• Most juvenile pets missing from starting zones

• Mechanics of many early heart quests reduced to make them more boring.

• Apples missing from apple orchard

I may still be missing a few, but fixing those need to be a priority as well.

Good luck with that list, the level unlocks are the core of NPE, not bugs.

A lot of people are expecting some kind of legacy feature. Where veterans don’t have to go through the same gating that new players do.

I think the devs somewhat have pressures to bring the system to US GW2.

Consider other regions(china) have unlocks too, if they don’t bring it here, other region will be in rage(like they already have).

Fred Fargone.3127:

Acinonyx came up with a fantastic idea: Just apply the changes to the first character created.

Aincronyx didn’t “come up” with the idea, it’s been splattered everywhere since the 9/9 patch. It’s the most common suggestion I’ve seen to make everything “better”. It’s not like it’s some amazing idea, either, it’s perfectly common sense…

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Fred Fargone.3127:

Acinonyx came up with a fantastic idea: Just apply the changes to the first character created.

Aincronyx didn’t “come up” with the idea, it’s been splattered everywhere since the 9/9 patch. It’s the most common suggestion I’ve seen to make everything “better”. It’s not like it’s some amazing idea, either, it’s perfectly common sense…

Sorry if I didn’t give credits to anyone for this idea, I didn’t read all the post, cause it’s painfull and it’s not my job (sorry Anet guys sometimes I think you should get some kind of medal for your work), but I’m pretty sure many people have invented the wheel before me.

Edit: to make this post usefull, @Chris, Is the system/content functionning as designed right now, or should we wait for an update ?

Could you let Elementalists keep element unlocks that they had before the patch? It’s a small thing, but I shouldn’t lose what I’ve already gained.

Yeah, simplification of so many early hearts and events made the starter zones really bland…

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Note we want to make the fixes and then have a focused discussion about the system (Probably here)

We really want to hear what you think once the system/content is functioning as designed.

Chris

When we, as the community, were in beta, I really loved that in game content rating and feedback system. I think it really helped to get the game on right track, any chance of seeing that again? Could be just an option toggleable per character.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

We really want to hear what you think once the system/content is functioning as designed.

I’ve seen a remark in this direction multiple times now and I have to ask: Has it be announced how the system/content should be functioning? If so, where? If not, why not?

Please, and I’m saying this for real.

Bring back the Personal Story progression back to what it was like before. With the Greatest Fear arc as the 7th chapter, and the cleansing of orr as part of the 8th chapter.

I don’t know why you did that change, but it’s a kick in the lore, which isn’t in a very good state to begin with anyway.

Please, just respect the original canon by putting the original missions back where they always belonged to.

Acinonyx Rex.8609:

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Fred Fargone.3127:

Acinonyx came up with a fantastic idea: Just apply the changes to the first character created.

Aincronyx didn’t “come up” with the idea, it’s been splattered everywhere since the 9/9 patch. It’s the most common suggestion I’ve seen to make everything “better”. It’s not like it’s some amazing idea, either, it’s perfectly common sense…

Sorry if I didn’t give credits to anyone for this idea, I didn’t read all the post, cause it’s painfull and it’s not my job (sorry Anet guys sometimes I think you should get some kind of medal for your work), but I’m pretty sure many people have invented the wheel before me.

Edit: to make this post usefull, @Chris, Is the system/content functionning as designed right now, or should we wait for an update ?

Oh, no, nothing against you personally. I just wanted to make a point of saying that this is a REALLY common suggestion after the patch, so it’s not like the devs are only hearing it here for the first time.

Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh. I’m really, really not feeling well this week, and it’s been affecting my tone a good bit the last few days.

That’s nice to hear devs answering and wanting more feedback (although I always knew they wanted it somehow). About feedbacks I had even made a poll to rate some aspects of the new system and maybe it could give some insight too. Not much votes in it so far but here they are:

Changes to Personal Story: http://strawpoll.me/2568479
Objective Compass/Content direction or whatever is it called: http://strawpoll.me/2569588
About locking features from low level players: http://strawpoll.me/2569645

Diovid.9506:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

We really want to hear what you think once the system/content is functioning as designed.

I’ve seen a remark in this direction multiple times now and I have to ask: Has it be announced how the system/content should be functioning? If so, where? If not, why not?

The last I’ve seen posted directly about this issue was last week, and the dev comment was, “We had some internal communication problems, so we’re still trying to figure out what exactly is a bug with the NPE and what was intended design.”

I’d say by now they have a good idea about that, but it hasn’t been publicly mentioned yet.

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Acinonyx Rex.8609:

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Fred Fargone.3127:

Acinonyx came up with a fantastic idea: Just apply the changes to the first character created.

Aincronyx didn’t “come up” with the idea, it’s been splattered everywhere since the 9/9 patch. It’s the most common suggestion I’ve seen to make everything “better”. It’s not like it’s some amazing idea, either, it’s perfectly common sense…

Sorry if I didn’t give credits to anyone for this idea, I didn’t read all the post, cause it’s painfull and it’s not my job (sorry Anet guys sometimes I think you should get some kind of medal for your work), but I’m pretty sure many people have invented the wheel before me.

Edit: to make this post usefull, @Chris, Is the system/content functionning as designed right now, or should we wait for an update ?

Oh, no, nothing against you personally. I just wanted to make a point of saying that this is a REALLY common suggestion after the patch, so it’s not like the devs are only hearing it here for the first time.

Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh. I’m really, really not feeling well this week, and it’s been affecting my tone a good bit the last few days.

No problem, The more they see it, the better ;-)

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Acinonyx Rex.8609:

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Fred Fargone.3127:

Acinonyx came up with a fantastic idea: Just apply the changes to the first character created.

Aincronyx didn’t “come up” with the idea, it’s been splattered everywhere since the 9/9 patch. It’s the most common suggestion I’ve seen to make everything “better”. It’s not like it’s some amazing idea, either, it’s perfectly common sense…

Sorry if I didn’t give credits to anyone for this idea, I didn’t read all the post, cause it’s painfull and it’s not my job (sorry Anet guys sometimes I think you should get some kind of medal for your work), but I’m pretty sure many people have invented the wheel before me.

Edit: to make this post usefull, @Chris, Is the system/content functionning as designed right now, or should we wait for an update ?

Oh, no, nothing against you personally. I just wanted to make a point of saying that this is a REALLY common suggestion after the patch, so it’s not like the devs are only hearing it here for the first time.

Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh. I’m really, really not feeling well this week, and it’s been affecting my tone a good bit the last few days.

Well, I have been having a year or so vacation from the forums, so I haven’t noticed that suggestion before. Well, suppose I should’ve said “brought up” instead of “came up”… Still, I suppose it’s a good thing to point out that it’s a very, very common suggestion. I just hadn’t noticed it before due to that little break I had.

I’m going to just re-post this here: This is not an opinion piece. Here is perhaps the biggest and most subtle problem with the NPE that’s technically “working as intended” – The “stat burst” and the “stat slump" effect.

• Stat Burst: With the original leveling system, players would receive a small amount of stats each time they leveled, which made their character slowly get stronger each level. With the NPE changes, after level 4 the player will received a large chunk (or “burst”) of stats every 6 levels. This was likely to make certain thresholds feel more rewarding and fun. (“Stat burst” levels: 4, 10, 16, 22, 28, 34, 40, 46, 52, 58, 64, 70, 76, 80)

• Stat Slump: The problem is that the “stat burst” power did not come out of no where. The power is redistributed from prior levels. The result is that players feel weaker than they did before during certain windows of leveling. This is being remarked as the “stat slump”, which is typically 2 to 4 levels prior to each threshold.

• The problem? If a player tries to fight a creature 1 or 2 levels higher than themselves, the “stat slump” complicates things. A level 9 creature is more powerful than a level 8; but a level 9 player is not inherently more powerful than a level 8. This is because the stats come in bursts for players, but gradually for monsters. This is not intuitive at all, and it makes it difficult for a player to judge how difficult a fight will be.
  
  Prior to the NPE, a level 8 player would size up a level 9 monster and conclude that it is only slightly stronger than themselves. With the new change however, this creature is actually 5 levels higher than him since the player is effectively level 4 stat wise. This problem continues all the throughout leveling during every “stat slump”
  
  It comes as no surprise to me that players are noticing that certain Personal Story missions are feeling much harder than they used to, even with all of their skills unlocked. This is a result of the “stat slump”, which is making players feel lower level than they actually are. (Because they effectively are a lower level)

More information is on this subject on these reddit threads:

• Stat Slump Stuff
• Downscaling & Stat Slump

In Conclusion (TLDR):

• Since you gain stats every 6 levels instead of every level, if you could not kill a creature at level 40, you will not be able to kill it at 44. A level 44 player is exactly as strong as a level 40, sans any gear changes. This phenomena happens frequently, and it has greatly changed the pacing and feel of leveling in GW2. Most offensively about this system is how subtle and non-intuitive for players to not stronger every level, yet creatures do. This change, more than any other, is the most dysfunctional one in the NPE, in their effort to create a “rewarding feeling” but instead it difficult to size up challenges now for players leveling.
  
  The ideal fix would be to un-do this redistribution and give the stats to the players gradually as it did in the past.

This whole topic hasn’t had any input from dev’s and over 400 posts…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Leveling-as-a-Reward-Is-Not-Rewarding/first

Please give some feedback in/on the issues stated in that topic please.

What about the Ricochet(Thief) bug where the skills dont seem to be increased range wise? The extra sneak attack tooltip that clutters up the left portion of your screen when you hover over it?

Why not have players with at least 2 level 80’s have the pre-patch experience leveling limits and those without 2 or no 80’s use the patched system?

Yay!!

Good to see some communication on the NPE. I know alot of people are very upset about it, but some have given some great positive feedback as well.

I don’t know if you’ve had a chance to check out this thread. I know it’s gotten buried by the myriad of posts (mostly about the same thing) but this might help you guys get more of a feel as to how we feel.

Thanks!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Feature-pack-9-9-feedback/page/8#post4401885

From my experience playing a new character:

1. Unlocking skills all at once per weapon was more confusing for me, and more boring. Previously fights didnt feel like grind because I was unlocking skills along the way, and I had more time with one skill to feel what it did. Now I get a bunch at once and am slowed down by having to read every tool tip over and over and I don’t remember what each skill does as well.

2. Not gaining skill points each level… even with the big message saying i’m being rewarded and that i’ve “unlocked” things (many things arent locked to begin with) I dont feel each level is giving me progress toward new abilities.

3. The level up menu gives vague, incomplete information and if I want it off the screen quickly there’s no way for me to figure out later what it was telling me. It takes up the whole screen so if you impulse click on it in combat there’s no time to hover your mouse or click the things it wants you to. In my opinion a true tutorial in controlled instances would be better than these obtrusive, only half-informative, and easily missed pop ups.

4. Some world-building dialogue/heart quest options have been removed (the inquest no longer try to recruit you, no golem chess, you can’t feed bear cubs or play as a sylvan hound). What drew me to gw2 was its world, characters, visuals. These charming details help it stand out from the “kill 45 crawfish to proceed” competitors. Their absence is missed.

5. I am seriously not looking forward to buying/unlocking all of my traits.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Game-Updates-Traits/first

THANK YOU FOR LISTENING!!

Cindas.6149:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Note we want to make the fixes and then have a focused discussion about the system (Probably here)

We really want to hear what you think once the system/content is functioning as designed.

Chris

What happened to the “plan” posted 5 days ago (here)?

Stephane Lo Presti.7258:

Hi there,

As a follow-up to Colin’s post, we want you to know that we’re busy working on fixing bugs in the New Player Experience system. We’re also using this opportunity to make a few changes to its design to take into account the feedback we’ve been reading. We’re aiming to deploy the fixes early next week.

As Colin explained (make sure to read this post and that one if you haven’t!), this is a complex, “big picture” system that has a lot of components. We want it to benefit all players and improve your game experience overall.

We understand that this is an important topic for the community and appreciate that players have been talking about it. We’ve been triaging bug reports, developing fixes for them and discussing what design changes we will bring to you next week. We’ll continue to both work on the next updates and read the feedback from the community on this topic!

Thank you

Or was that simply a “calming ruse” . . . ?

well seeing as that was posted on Thursday, and today is Tuesday it is still “early next week”. Also I was under the impresssion that was what this thread was….

Repost from the “Communicating with you” thread:

What I don’t like about the NPE:

Personal Story
One thing I always hated about the Living Story was that it feels like timewarping every two weeks. The Personal Story on the other hand was able to win me over because I could decide when I want to drive my story forward. Now that is gone, now the story comes streamlined and packaged in small bits every time I level 10 levels.
The biggest gripe I have with the new system was that the old system was almost perfectly fine and could’ve been made perfect with just small changes. There is no need to “protect” the player from the story.
And if the rumors are correct, then they’ve cutted out part of the story and rearanged other parts, so they don’t even make sense anymore…

Weapon skills
Same as the Personal Story, I think that the old system was perfectly fine. You unlocked the skills by using the weapon, not by leveling your character.
The old system made more sense, was intuitive and gave us the possibility to use more skills quicker.

Level-up bounty
I really dislike the way they are going with this. They’re locking things we had previously to give them us back later as “reward”. They cut the maps in order to do so and the loot they give for leveling up gives the player a false pretence of how the game is meant to be played. They think that the game centers around getting your character as fast as possible to level 80, when in fact the game should encourage you to explore. Again the old system did this just fine.

Simplified maps
Some key parts about every map gets locked away until you reach a certain level. Skill point challenges, vistas, gathering nodes and goods the heart vendors have to offer.
This again gives the player a false pretence about how the game is meant to be played.

Learning curve
All this changes where introduced to flatten out the learning curve. Someone obviously thinks that a new player is most likely overwhelmed by the game if he first starts. There would be a sight better way to introduce new players to the game:
Tooltips. Lots of them. As example, the downstate shouldn’t be locked until level 5 but should be explained before the player can be downed the first time. There should be a tooltip what the downstate is and what the 4 skills do. The evade mechanic should be explained with tooltips, the map completion should be explained with tooltips, the gathering should be explained with tooltips, everything should be explained with tooltips. And the best part about tooltips: They would be optional.

The reason for all these changes?
In my opinion, ANet aims for getting this game eC or E rated to attract new players.
This would also explain why new Sylvari aren’t naked anymore when they leave the Dream. Young children could obviously get the wrong message…

Note we want to make the fixes and then have a focused discussion about the system (Probably here)

We really want to hear what you think once the system/content is functioning as designed.

Chris

Again, waiting until it’s “functioning as designed” before having the discussion about it just pushes back the point where solutions can be reached. If you’d have discussed these changes with us months ago we could have hashed them out before the patch, and we wouldn’t be in this mess. Let’s say it takes another week to get things “functioning as designed,” and then we spend another couple weeks debating the changes, that’s weeks wasted when you could be working on fixing them now.

You guys already know which elements of the current game are bugs and which are features, so instead of waiting until the bugs have been removed, why not just TELL use which elements are not intended and which are, and we can discuss the issue from there?

This is the core about what we mean when we say we want communication. We don’t want to wait until things are implemented and then discuss them, we want in on the design process BEFORE you waste the time and effort implementing systems that we never wanted in the first place. Think of how many manhours you guys wasted working on these NGE systems that are dead on arrival with the players! How many other great systems could those developers have been working on instead in that time?

Gaile, Chris,

Please allow us to continue with the personal story if we chose to instead of level locking it.

I play the game with friends, and the personal story, to put it bluntly, is what keeps us occupied. When we’re a lower level than is recommended, it simply becomes a fun challenge, and we like that! To force us to be a specific level, while I can see the point of for cohesion, ruins the do what you want feel of the game, and also turns it into a grind for us, as the personal story is what we play the game for!

Thanks for the time.

Fred Fargone.3127:

Acinonyx came up with a fantastic idea: Just apply the changes to the first character created.

Of course, even better would be some sort of setting we can toggle on and off, since honestly, until we can get some sort of HM option, playing with new characters has become quite painful.

Could we at least retain the option to do higher level personal story, at our own risk? Since when I hit the next x0 level, the story content is already quite trivial to stroll through. Tbh, I probably could do level 40 story at level 30 no problem. But that would be whole lot more interesting than doing level 40 story at level 40, when I’m guaranteed success. (Is it really success if it is just handed to me? Winning gold medal doesn’t really feel like winning gold medal if they’re handed out at the entrance to the arena.)

I would like this as well. I was forced to start grinding out a crafting skill so that I could begin the process of coming closer to level 80 because every time i went into a higher level zone and killed mobs there it would give me miniscule XP like 3-5 per kill with boosts on. Whatever they did they removed a big advantage of being a veteran that knows where to go to complete that final run on your alt to complete the leveling process. Part of the fun was the challenge and XP rewards of getting to those high level places and not just surviving but also flourishing by gaining extra xp.