Guild Wars 2

If I were a new player considering playing this game and looked into the changes made for my new experience projecting them against the original spectrum of the game, I would feel the opposite of welcome to join this community. I do not want to fall into further bittnerness than necessary, but I can say I have never had such big amount of unrewarding, crippled and unchallenging struggle attempting to start a new character as I have since these updates.

It at least makes some professions less wimpy near level 20.
So I apparently have some reason to use those level scrolls now.

Behellagh.1468:

New Patch is out.

For you gate haters.

• Utility slot skills 2 and 3 now unlock at levels 17 and 19, respectively.
• The elite slot skill now unlocks at level 31.
• Elementalist F4 commands, mesmer F3 commands, and guardian F3 commands now unlock at level 17.
• Mesmer F4 commands and engineer F4 commands now unlock at level 19.
• Skill Challenges are now visible at level 13 instead of level 15.

Also a number of bugs including the diving goggles fixed.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-September-9-2014/4420127

This isn’t a fix. I’m even more disappointed they didn’t revert now… as it seems they are only slowly moving towards the goal. If you can make the goggles account bound, make all these account bound after your first character… or hell your first 2… I wouldn’t mind going through this system once or twice and never having to deal with it again, but your forcing us to deal with it indefinitely and there is no reason for that… there really isn’t.

This was a change that should have been done at release or not at all… especially not after 2 years.

Relshdan.6854:

these changes/fixes don’t alter or answer the argument against the NPE….it just makes a bland/ overly simplistic experience go slightly quicker.

You simply don’t liking the NPE does not mean it’s a bad thing.
Apparently player retention in lower levels is an issue and if this solves that, then it’s a good thing.
The negative effects such as dumbing down low level hearts to be extremely simplistic sadly is the way to achieve that goal, aside with other things.

And yes, these changes do fix a lot of the arguments people had (such as not having to redo the NPE every time in regards to skill points / vista unlocks / etc).

Okay, the most recent account-bound unlock changes are very much a step in the right direction, but there’s still so many pacing issues to address.

It still seems odd to have things like skill points unlock at level 13 when there are skill points available at lower levels. Why can’t a new level 8 player challenge themselves against a level 8 skill challenge? Aren’t these supposed to be challenges?

Come back at level 13 to do a level 8 skill challenge! That’s some funky pacing right there.

While I still don’t think stuff like diving goggles and skill points should be locked in the first place, having them be account unlocked after your first character is a step in the right direction at least.

PLEASE FIX THE PERSONAL STORY

Why remove the “Greatest Fear” storyline?
Why mix up the order when it makes no sense?

Also, please change traits back to the way they were.

Simonoly.4352:

Okay, the most recent account-bound unlock changes are very much a step in the right direction, but there’s still so many pacing issues to address.

It still seems odd to have things like skill points unlock at level 13 when there are skill points available at lower levels. Why can’t a new level 8 player challenge themselves against a level 8 skill challenge? Aren’t these supposed to be challenges?

Come back at level 13 to do a level 8 skill challenge! That’s some funky pacing right there.

It’s mostly so that new players don’t have 50 things to do once they walk outside of a city. As silly as it may sound, for a lot of inexperienced gamers things can get very confusing fast. I’m not trying to belittle anyone, but even movement in the game can be a big challenge for new people. There’s just so many aspects to the game that people need to get used to. Slowly pacing this out for them is a better way of handling it.

Considering it is unlocked account wide after hitting level 13 with one character, I don’t think this is an issue.

eekzie.5640:

Relshdan.6854:

these changes/fixes don’t alter or answer the argument against the NPE….it just makes a bland/ overly simplistic experience go slightly quicker.

You simply don’t liking the NPE does not mean it’s a bad thing.
Apparently player retention in lower levels is an issue and if this solves that, then it’s a good thing.
The negative effects such as dumbing down low level hearts to be extremely simplistic sadly is the way to achieve that goal, aside with other things.

And yes, these changes do fix a lot of the arguments people had (such as not having to redo the NPE every time in regards to skill points / vista unlocks / etc).

I am skeptic at the idea of removing 50% of the content that actually makes the game playable, such as variety of availble skills and (mildly) challenging content from the beginning actually enforcing player retention. Surely Arenanet has more numbers, but the moment you are being essentially punished for joining the community later on, not being able to grasp your class properly at all until much later than everyone else and lacking any sort of challenge whatsoever, doesn’t this start to be the same as every other MMO availble, and thus blending with an unimpressing environment?
The lack of variety in armors, skills, traits; literally everything that makes your character unique is now gone, and that really was one of Guild Wars 2’s few outstanding selling points.

I posted this elsewhere but received no response.

the way the skill points are supposed to work is as follows:
Levelling up:
8 skill points are earned at levels 19 and 32.
7 skill points are earned at levels 38, 44, 49 and 56.
6 skill points are earned at levels 62, 68, 74 and 80.

I started a new toon this past saturday and hit 19 last night but I received no skill points from the level up. With the new leveling system it will be waaaaay too hard to level up using skill challenges alone for our skills and traits.

Behellagh.1468:

New Patch is out.

For you gate haters.

• Utility slot skills 2 and 3 now unlock at levels 17 and 19, respectively.
• The elite slot skill now unlocks at level 31.
• Elementalist F4 commands, mesmer F3 commands, and guardian F3 commands now unlock at level 17.
• Mesmer F4 commands and engineer F4 commands now unlock at level 19.
• Skill Challenges are now visible at level 13 instead of level 15.

Also a number of bugs including the diving goggles fixed.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-September-9-2014/4420127

WHOO!

Anmida.4058:

I am skeptic at the idea of removing 50% of the content that actually makes the game playable, such as variety of availble skills and (mildly) challenging content from the beginning actually enforcing player retention. Surely Arenanet has more numbers, but the moment you are being essentially punished for joining the community later on, not being able to grasp your class properly at all until much later than everyone else and lacking any sort of challenge whatsoever, doesn’t this start to be the same as every other MMO availble, and thus blending with an unimpressing environment?
The lack of variety in armors, skills, traits; literally everything that makes your character unique is now gone, and that really was one of Guild Wars 2’s few outstanding selling points.

Like I said, I don’t know if that will solve the player retention.
I’ve seen plenty of posts on the forum and reddit and social media where people stopped before level 20 for so many reasons that this NPE addressed and fixed.
(Underleveling issues, no tips on dodging, no idea where to go or what to do, underwater being too hard, stuck on personal story, confused by many skills, confused by F1/2/3/4… and so forth)

As far as it being a true ‘selling point’ that the level 1-15 areas have some flavor events… I think people are valueing their nostalgia too much. The areas are still very impressive and many games have also succesfully used similar explorable areas.

I’m not sure what you’re saying with the lack of variety, how is that related to the NPE?

Thank you very much for working on a fix for the bundle exploit, it will really help balance the new changes. Also the personal story does need a good fix as well. Please keep us in the loop if you get any more info!

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Behellagh.1468:

New Patch is out.

For you gate haters.

• Utility slot skills 2 and 3 now unlock at levels 17 and 19, respectively.
• The elite slot skill now unlocks at level 31.
• Elementalist F4 commands, mesmer F3 commands, and guardian F3 commands now unlock at level 17.
• Mesmer F4 commands and engineer F4 commands now unlock at level 19.
• Skill Challenges are now visible at level 13 instead of level 15.

Also a number of bugs including the diving goggles fixed.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-September-9-2014/4420127

WHOO!

Wow, great patch, that! Just a note, though, I was able to see and use the map skill challenges at 13 before, it must have been a localized bug for most players. Thank you guys for listening to our feedback!

eekzie.5640:

Simonoly.4352:

Okay, the most recent account-bound unlock changes are very much a step in the right direction, but there’s still so many pacing issues to address.

It still seems odd to have things like skill points unlock at level 13 when there are skill points available at lower levels. Why can’t a new level 8 player challenge themselves against a level 8 skill challenge? Aren’t these supposed to be challenges?

Come back at level 13 to do a level 8 skill challenge! That’s some funky pacing right there.

It’s mostly so that new players don’t have 50 things to do once they walk outside of a city. Considering it is unlocked account wide after hitting level 13 with one character, I don’t think this is an issue.

Well the reason I brought it up is because I had to explain to a new player earlier why they couldn’t do the Mysterious Patch of Ground skill challenge in Caledon Forest, even though they were at the same level as the mobs and other events in that area. They were displeased that they could not complete the zone sequentially whilst levelling and would have to instead come back and do the skill challenge when they were overlevelled for that challenge. For this new player it was just an inconvenience.

Obviously it’s not a deal breaker, but it would be wise to make the minimum level of every skill point level 13, so when a new player tries to interact with a skill point they at least know why they can’t do it yet.

I don’t mind any of these changes to new players, but what about the veteran Chris? Is it not possible for people that already unlocked all of this to not have to repeat it again on alts?

Simonoly.4352:

Well the reason I brought it up is because I had to explain to a new player earlier why they couldn’t do the Mysterious Patch of Ground skill challenge in Caledon Forest, even though they were at the same level as the mobs and other events in that area. They were displeased that they could not complete the zone sequentially whilst levelling and would have to instead come back and do the skill challenge when they were overlevelled for that challenge. For this new player it was just an inconvenience.

Obviously it’s not a deal breaker, but it would be wise to make the minimum level of every skill point level 13, so when a new player tries to interact with a skill point they at least know why they can’t do it yet.

Simply a negative side effect of reiterating an old system, I agree.
But it’s better than simply removing all skill points in low level zones.

Considering the level is set to 13 (which you should get while leveling in your first starter zone) you’re still in the area.

Personally would’ve liked a lower level to unlock them, but it’s not too bad now honestly.

Nebilim.5127:

I don’t mind any of these changes to new players, but what about the veteran Chris? Is it not possible for people that already unlocked all of this to not have to repeat it again on alts?

Check the update notes, several things have been made account wide unlocks.
You can always give feedback on which things you want to see account wide

Stooperdale.3560:

Gaile Gray.6029:

• Plot holes and story inconsistencies that may have been introduced with story realignment

The best way to fix these plot holes is to put all the personal story chapters back into the game in the correct order. Most players think the that quality of the story is more important than the way it is packaged into bits. Hacking parts out of the story may be convenient for someone but it is not convenient for the players who are trying to follow it. We hope the design team will realize this too.

That is the best option in my opinion. It would take less work to do and I’d be happy about it. Assuming that if the devs want to keep with the current arrangement of the story, I would imagine additions would be necessary to tie them together as seamlessly. I’d rather save them the trouble and just revert those chapters back.

eekzie.5640:

Anmida.4058:

I am skeptic at the idea of removing 50% of the content that actually makes the game playable, such as variety of availble skills and (mildly) challenging content from the beginning actually enforcing player retention. Surely Arenanet has more numbers, but the moment you are being essentially punished for joining the community later on, not being able to grasp your class properly at all until much later than everyone else and lacking any sort of challenge whatsoever, doesn’t this start to be the same as every other MMO availble, and thus blending with an unimpressing environment?
The lack of variety in armors, skills, traits; literally everything that makes your character unique is now gone, and that really was one of Guild Wars 2’s few outstanding selling points.

Like I said, I don’t know if that will solve the player retention.
I’ve seen plenty of posts on the forum and reddit and social media where people stopped before level 20 for so many reasons that this NPE addressed and fixed.

As far as it being a true ‘selling point’ that the level 1-15 areas have some flavor events… I think people are valueing their nostalgia too much. The areas are still very impressive and many games have also succesfully used similar explorable areas.

I’m not sure what you’re saying with the lack of variety, how is that related to the NPE?

I will apply the new Trait system and the Wardrobe(in a lesser scale, of course.) as part of the NPE as it is clear both were intended for the purpose itself.
Take in mind new players are joining a community where people have had access to their skills, traits and pretty much everything customizable from an agreeable start with the furthermost reach being grandmaster traits and Elite skills.
With the new pacing of not only the butchered storyline pieces that allow for absolutely no challenge whatsoever as you will at all times be overleveled, but the locked traits that are simply impossible to afford for a new incoming character (and likely also impossible to attain, as it is simply an effort you are unlikely to bother with.), coupled with the fact acquiring enough gems to customize your character’s looks through the new Wardrobe charge system… And you are essentially your basic skills, with your basic green gear, until level 80. This is what all the people I know in game have been going through. This is what the basic gist to the new players I see given in mapchat is. This is what new players learn. “Eh don’t put effort, you will not get anything worthwhile until you reach max level.”
You are positively locked into grinding skill scrolls and challenges to even be able to afford your traits and skills at the same pace old players did, and that feels like the most crippling factor for incoming players. They will simply not experiment or care about any of these things, because honestly, they don’t need to, the game doesn’t reward you for it, and so you may as well simply not.

An addendum to the subject of the starting areas is that they have always been the most polished ones from the game. It’s a plain truth; They were. Not because of anything else but the fact they are there to trick you into thinking everything will be as detailed and lively elsewhere, instead of an icebrood/risen/centaur copypaste shenanigan (dramatization, obviously.) which hey, was fine.
Now instead it feels like the game believes you to be mentally challenged and unable to understand basic gameplay concepts because you may break a neurone and you just can’t afford those. Not saying they are ruined forever, it’s just, well. The game feels more like your average korean mmo by the day. Hand holding, challenge free, item store led, update lacking. If we added skimpily dressed children, we’d have Tera!

Long story short, we should not have been presented with this “update” in the state it was in. We are all BETA testers at this point, and unpaid for our advice.

Loving the new patch notes. THANK YOU! keep them coming please

Geeze, and as I say that, I log on to find another update. It has to be the 10th in a week. This is not acceptable for a game that has been out for 2 years.

narwhalsbend.7059:

PLEASE FIX THE PERSONAL STORY

Why remove the “Greatest Fear” storyline?
Why mix up the order when it makes no sense?

Also, please change traits back to the way they were.

I don’t think they removed it on purpose, though. My thinking about why they changed the order of chapters is due to certain players (myself included) who complained about the main character not being the main focus on the later parts of the game hence we got the cleansing of Orr FIRST to get Trahearne’s Wyld Hunt out of the way and then for Chapter 8, focus on assaulting the Risen and eventually Zhaitan.

Regardless, I prefer the structure of the story as it was before. It’s far from perfect but the structure is there and I’d rather it stay that way and just improve upon the future Living Story episodes to make up for the Personal Story mishaps.

SRoode.7318:

Long story short, we should not have been presented with this “update” in the state it was in. We are all BETA testers at this point, and unpaid for our advice.

I believe we have been that since the raise of the Karka event, my good sir, given all since that point forward has been experimental.

SRoode.7318:

Geeze, and as I say that, I log on to find another update. It has to be the 10th in a week. This is not acceptable for a game that has been out for 2 years.

It still happened in games which had been out 5 years. 10 years. And with more money backing them.

It seems pretty obvious from this and other threads that the worst aspects of the NPE are here to stay, and all of ANet’s “communicating with you” stuff is posturing at best, deceptive at worst.

I really regret buying that char slot a month or so ago. I specifically waited for this update to use the character, expecting something new and interesting. Now I have a low-level mesmer that will collect dust, not to mention a roster of other alts that I simply have no interest in playing anymore.

UndeadRufus.6832:

It seems pretty obvious from this and other threads that the worst aspects of the NPE are here to stay, and all of ANet’s “communicating with you” stuff is posturing at best, deceptive at worst.

I really regret buying that char slot a month or so ago. I specifically waited for this update to use the character, expecting something new and interesting. Now I have a low-level mesmer that will collect dust, not to mention a roster of other alts that I simply have no interest in playing anymore.

Most of the items that you likely consider “the worst aspects” were actually gated before it was just a lot less obvious. Also you should be able to unlock them close to about the same speed as you unlocked them on your first character.

AlienMenace.7516:

I think these are the major Personal Story plot holes they are likely talking about.

Mhh, I think I’ll save my char’s sister and stop right there. Thanks for your answer

Anmida.4058:

I will apply the new Trait system and the Wardrobe(in a lesser scale, of course.) as part of the NPE as it is clear both were intended for the purpose itself.
Take in mind new players are joining a community where people have had access to their skills, traits and pretty much everything customizable from an agreeable start with the furthermost reach being grandmaster traits and Elite skills.

The new trait system feels like a poorly implemented way to make it more interesting, I agree. But while you’re new and leveling having to think about your build too much already is not something positive for new players. If they made the system where you unlock traits account wide by doing challenges I’d be very pleased.
I do think level 30 is too far away to start with traits.
Elite skills are on an even level with new / old players now that it’s level 31 to unlock.

Anmida.4058:

With the new pacing of not only the butchered storyline pieces that allow for absolutely no challenge whatsoever as you will at all times be overleveled, but the locked traits that are simply impossible to afford for a new incoming character (and likely also impossible to attain, as it is simply an effort you are unlikely to bother with.),

I don’t think you’re supposed to be able to afford them if you’re new to the game. Just like you’re not supposed to be able to afford ascended gear when you hit level 80.
Having them s something ‘you are unlikely to bother with’ is the only issue I see.
It should be fun and enticing to unlock traits. I hate how bland most of the challenges are to unlock traits.

Anmida.4058:

coupled with the fact acquiring enough gems to customize your character’s looks through the new Wardrobe charge system… And you are essentially your basic skills, with your basic green gear, until level 80. This is what all the people I know in game have been going through. This is what the basic gist to the new players I see given in mapchat is. This is what new players learn. “Eh don’t put effort, you will not get anything worthwhile until you reach max level.”

Simply not true. You get more loot from personal story and level ups than before.
If anything the NPE is a step in the right direction. Especially for new people.
From your reaction it seems you haven’t even gone through the experience, as you get a much larger variety of skins now. (T1 cultural armor piece / order weapon as example).
For old players yes, removing the old level 79 transmutation stones for low level gear was dumbing down variety. But I can’t honestly say that I noticed many low level people using them. And the transmutation ‘crystals’ are far easier to acquire.
Even to the point where the transmutation charges are so abundant for me that I’m wasting them left and right.

Anmida.4058:

You are positively locked into grinding skill scrolls and challenges to even be able to afford your traits and skills at the same pace old players did, and that feels like the most crippling factor for incoming players. They will simply not experiment or care about any of these things, because honestly, they don’t need to, the game doesn’t reward you for it, and so you may as well simply not.

The game rewards you with traits that you want. I don’t see your point…
And again, for new people you shouldn’t be able to just afford everything.

Anmida.4058:

An addendum to the subject of the starting areas is that they have always been the most polished ones from the game. It’s a plain truth; They were. Not because of anything else but the fact they are there to trick you into thinking everything will be as detailed and lively elsewhere, instead of an icebrood/risen/centaur copypaste shenanigan (dramatization, obviously.) which hey, was fine.
Now instead it feels like the game believes you to be mentally challenged and unable to understand basic gameplay concepts because you may break a neurone and you just can’t afford those. Not saying they are ruined forever, it’s just, well. The game feels more like your average korean mmo by the day. Hand holding, challenge free, item store led, update lacking. If we added skimpily dressed children, we’d have Tera!

I think this is just a bigger issue I’ve had since launch that pretty much majority of the level 15+ zones are too bland. And that’s why it’s saddening to see diversity go away, I agree. But I don’t think the issue of diversity in lower level areas being removed is the core issue.
The mentally challenged… sigh… Do I really have to explain this again?
Low levels should be hand holding and relatively challenge free to certain extents. I don’t think removing the diversity from the first ~3 hearts in every started zone is that big of a deal.

Store led / update lacking… I think everyone agrees we want to see more intrusive and rewarding content. It currently feels very store led because the other aspect isn’t keeping up.

anzenketh.3759:

Most of the items that you likely consider “the worst aspects” were actually gated before it was just a lot less obvious. Also you should be able to unlock them close to about the same speed as you unlocked them on your first character.

That’s an interesting claim, since the actual in-game experience has been anything but, and boring. Anti-alt level-gating is just one problem, at any rate.

UndeadRufus.6832:

anzenketh.3759:

Most of the items that you likely consider “the worst aspects” were actually gated before it was just a lot less obvious. Also you should be able to unlock them close to about the same speed as you unlocked them on your first character.

That’s an interesting claim, since the actual in-game experience has been anything but, and boring. Anti-alt level-gating is just one problem, at any rate.

I agree, there are worse problems than that in the game.

. . . I call them ‘asura’.

Thank you for removing the level restriction for pet and clone commands. It was ridiculous for those basic mechanics to be locked away until later levels.

And as some feedback about the overall changes, did you ever take into account the effect this has on the leveling experience of more experienced players? A new player might not mind their skills being locked away the first time around, but the second or third character you level up in the new system is nothing but frustrating to someone who is experienced with the game and used to playing with an entire set of skills.

Bri.8354:

Thank you for removing the level restriction for pet and clone commands. It was ridiculous for those basic mechanics to be locked away until later levels.

And as some feedback about the overall changes, did you ever take into account the effect this has on the leveling experience of more experienced players? A new player might not mind their skills being locked away the first time around, but the second or third character you level up in the new system is nothing but frustrating to someone who is experienced with the game and used to playing with an entire set of skills.

I only hate that it takes so long for the second skill to unlock.
Attacking the first ‘boss’ with auto attacks is very boring.
And that it takes ages to unlock underwater skills.

Aside from that, leveling up is a lot faster now and you actually unlock all weapon skills simultaneously. So I’m really happy with that.

In total unlocking all weapon skills is probably faster for majority of the classes.
(Engineer probably excluded as they don’t have that many weapons)

Bri.8354:

And as some feedback about the overall changes, did you ever take into account the effect this has on the leveling experience of more experienced players? A new player might not mind their skills being locked away the first time around, but the second or third character you level up in the new system is nothing but frustrating to someone who is experienced with the game and used to playing with an entire set of skills.

Putting on a different perspective, I think it’s about a consistent experience around a level range. See, if we give older players the older experience instead of the newer one, and still make new accounts go through the new experience . . .

We get players who can quickly unlock everything and do more things than the new players. Which means there’s a potential feeling of “why am I not that cool?” from the new players, who now feel they have the system stacked against them rather than it (seemingly) being a level playing field.

It’s sort of like how no matter the relative experience of a player of Catan, they don’t automatically have an easier time of it.

UndeadRufus.6832:

anzenketh.3759:

Most of the items that you likely consider “the worst aspects” were actually gated before it was just a lot less obvious. Also you should be able to unlock them close to about the same speed as you unlocked them on your first character.

That’s an interesting claim, since the actual in-game experience has been anything but, and boring. Anti-alt level-gating is just one problem, at any rate.

As the game evolved did it get easier for alts? Yes. Skill scrolls is one item that made it easier. Was it possible to bypass this “gate” yes it is. However for the majority of players I would say that you are unlocking the same things at the same rate now as you were before.

(Time spent in quoting quoted quoting is the only part I dread about long discussions in forums, hah.)

eekzie.5640:

The new trait system feels like a poorly implemented way to make it more interesting, I agree. But while you’re new and leveling having to think about your build too much already is not something positive for new players. If they made the system where you unlock traits account wide by doing challenges I’d be very pleased.
I do think level 30 is too far away to start with traits.
Elite skills are on an even level with new / old players now that it’s level 31 to unlock.

I agree and at the same time I do not. One of the things that attracted me and a big part of the initial community was not having to think about your build, but having the option to do so. The game was already lacking in challenge through PvE enough that it was not necessary, now it is not necessary, but simply unfun to attempt to do so.
But we both, if really the whole GW2 community, agree the new trait system is pretty terrible altogether so that was mostly pointing the obvious on my part.

eekzie.5640:

I don’t think you’re supposed to be able to afford them if you’re new to the game. Just like you’re not supposed to be able to afford ascended gear when you hit level 80.
Having them s something ‘you are unlikely to bother with’ is the only issue I see.
It should be fun and enticing to unlock traits. I hate how bland most of the challenges are to unlock traits.

This is my gripe and mostly my negative, if personal, view on it. You -should- be able to afford most of these things without unnecessary sidetracking for the purpose, when they are key factors of a gameplay style. Stats in your armor are way different than traits, let’s be fair here. Traits overhaul everything. Stats make your pressing of autoattack more effectively deadlier. (Again, dramatization. But you get the gist.)

eekzie.5640:

Simply not true. You get more loot from personal story and level ups than before.
If anything the NPE is a step in the right direction. Especially for new people.
From your reaction it seems you haven’t even gone through the experience, as you get a much larger variety of skins now. (T1 cultural armor piece / order weapon as example).
For old players yes, removing the old level 79 transmutation stones for low level gear was dumbing down variety. But I can’t honestly say that I noticed many low level people using them. And the transmutation ‘crystals’ are far easier to acquire.
Even to the point where the transmutation charges are so abundant for me that I’m wasting them left and right.

I have ran through the NPE two of my fifteen alternate characters. My statement remains. The rewards will be discarded and in no way boost my morale to experiment with looks, whereas from the start of the game I always felt using transmutation stones was something to do at will as I hoarded nigh unlimited quantities of them simply from doing map completion, which by now means gets compensated by a single charge chance per map.
I respectfully disagree with your overall view, including the following point in the next post regarding not being able to afford traits; Once more, traits are integral to gameplay changes, and given the lack of variety avaible through skill unlocks, traits should be the lone thing you should be able to afford at all times. This is my personal view on this, and picturing having to level a mesmer or a thief with no knowledge or capabilities to use these to enhace my gameplay at will gives me nightmares.

And finally, I also disagree with the concept of hand holding being positive in any way.
You can’t tell me not familiarizing players with conditions, the shenanigans of bundles, interactive minigames, even skill challenges until they are overleveld for them, and similars because it is “too complicated” (?) adds to anything but a disappointing start, more than assistance to climatization.

There we go.

This latest update (acct wide unlock on goggles, SPs, vistas, etc) is a step in the right direction.

Well done, Anet folks. Don’t stop yet – it’s not quite where it ought to be, but it’s certainly getting better.

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

I HATE that people keep bringing up this Straw Poll! It’s ridiculous!!

You had 1500 people participate in this poll. Do you actually have any idea how many people that is? I’ll tell you. It’s less than 1% of 1% of the estimated number of purchasers/players of Guild Wars 2 worldwide.

This is a LUDICROUSLY SMALL amount of people that have participated in this poll. Not only that, but most likely the majority of the people that were conscripted into participating in this poll were already biased against it — I.E., the poll was only advertised in forums and threads where people were already complaining about the issues.

This poll is nothing but propaganda. It’s highly stilted in the favor of the people that designed the poll, with people only wanting it as “proof” over something they “already know” about the game.

Please stop using this as a discussion point. There is no merit to this poll, it doesn’t provide anything of value, as it’s highly circumstantial to begin with.

Nop, even though the “samples” from that poll, the amount of ppl who votes on them, are by far less than the actual number of players it still can be valid. Take per example elections (for president per example), do the polls they usually do at that season really take in account “all” the people involved? No, usually it’s just a “sample” that can reflect what the majority could think about.

I can’t tell about others but the ones I made wasn’t advertised on thread where there already had complaints and hate toward it. I put it on my signature so it would even appear on threads not related to this system. These polls may not be exact and precise, but it doesn’t mean they aren’t valid.

I’ll come up with some feedback later, still reading posts at this stage.

pre-trait gating leveling system was great … why come up with so much kitten to fix something that issn’t broken?

Zackie.8923:

pre-trait gating leveling system was great … why come up with so much kitten to fix something that issn’t broken?

Because it was broken? Or at least, it wasn’t anywhere near engaging or interesting, or fun.

Now if they could get the last one of those to actually be something they hit even 75% of the time . . .

Behellagh.1468:

New Patch is out.

For you gate haters.

• Utility slot skills 2 and 3 now unlock at levels 17 and 19, respectively.
• The elite slot skill now unlocks at level 31.
• Elementalist F4 commands, mesmer F3 commands, and guardian F3 commands now unlock at level 17.
• Mesmer F4 commands and engineer F4 commands now unlock at level 19.
• Skill Challenges are now visible at level 13 instead of level 15.

Also a number of bugs including the diving goggles fixed.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-September-9-2014/4420127

interesting, so they pushed back the primary skills to pre level 20, your charachter is complete, almost as if to say, use a level 20 scroll.

for non scroll users, in order to make 1-20 more entertaining i would say:

• weapon swap should probably unlock earlier, say level 11

• I think skill points should be completable at any level anything else is will lead to more confusion and not understanding for early players. Its nice that its account unlocked now, but still seems confusing for new players.

• proffession mechanic abilities are kind of core abilities to the class, i would say unlock them earlier

• gaining skill points each level feels much better than in chunks imo,

I believe the old weapon skills unlocking through use was a superior and more scalable system, however im guessing you guys really want to keep this version for whatever reason.

However, with these changes, i think the system overall is less unwieldly, and at least by level 20 you are mostly free from unlock gates.

Next up trait system, which seems like it will take a lot more work than this.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Zackie.8923:

pre-trait gating leveling system was great … why come up with so much kitten to fix something that issn’t broken?

Because it was broken? Or at least, it wasn’t anywhere near engaging or interesting, or fun.

Now if they could get the last one of those to actually be something they hit even 75% of the time . . .

elaborate here on what wasnt fun.

I’m not judging you, im just interested in what you felt made that system, or even this system not engaging or fun.

i do agree that overall the process could be more entertaining, in and of itself, but im curious what would do it for you.

phys.7689:

elaborate here on what wasnt fun.

I’m not judging you, im just interested in what you felt made that system, or even this system not engaging or fun.

i do agree that overall the process could be more entertaining, in and of itself, but im curious what would do it for you.

Personally, I would love more loot reward.
Seeing more damage every time you level up (via better gear mostly) is something I personally really like.
They’ve added some via PS and level up rewards, but it could’ve been more / better.
I still get so much stuff I can’t use via the PS…
Kind of sad as I expected them to have seriously addressed this issue with the blog post…

Zackie.8923:

that dude is the samuel L jackson troll

Given how much I admire him, I’m gonna take the compliment of comparison.

phys.7689:

elaborate here on what wasnt fun.

I’m not judging you, im just interested in what you felt made that system, or even this system not engaging or fun.

i do agree that overall the process could be more entertaining, in and of itself, but im curious what would do it for you.

Thanks for asking a good question.

Edit: Actually, will respond in a different post. Give me a minute.

Behellagh.1468:

New Patch is out.

For you gate haters.

• Utility slot skills 2 and 3 now unlock at levels 17 and 19, respectively.
• The elite slot skill now unlocks at level 31.
• Elementalist F4 commands, mesmer F3 commands, and guardian F3 commands now unlock at level 17.
• Mesmer F4 commands and engineer F4 commands now unlock at level 19.
• Skill Challenges are now visible at level 13 instead of level 15.

Also a number of bugs including the diving goggles fixed.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-September-9-2014/4420127

So much all these things! Thank you Anet team for delivering this to us.

A few suggestions, albeit minor now:

• Utility Skill 1 at 10 or 11 maybe?
• Elite Skill at 30 instead of 31 (Only for those poor souls who want to venture into Ascalonian Catacombs)
• Weapon Swapping at 10 instead of 15?
• Gain Skill Points every level instead of in chunks

eekzie.5640:

phys.7689:

elaborate here on what wasnt fun.

I’m not judging you, im just interested in what you felt made that system, or even this system not engaging or fun.

i do agree that overall the process could be more entertaining, in and of itself, but im curious what would do it for you.

Personally, I would love more loot reward.
Seeing more damage every time you level up (via better gear mostly) is something I personally really like.
They’ve added some via PS and level up rewards, but it could’ve been more / better.
I still get so much stuff I can’t use via the PS…
Kind of sad as I expected them to have seriously addressed this issue with the blog post…

hmm.
There is a noticeable increase in damage if you are always wearing the top of the line gear, but that is fairly expensive. However i doubt they could/would give you like 8-9 peices of gear every time you level.

that means they would either have to restructure the base charachter power level, or totally redistrubute stats, whereby stats are unevenly distributed to different peices. However that would probably create a lot less customizability of stats overall.

Some of what you are talking about used to happen as a side effect of the trait system. a person who put every early trait point in power, would tend to see dmg boost.

Those solutions would be really large scale changes though, effecting almost everything, so i doubt they would do it.

In the current design, you are basically expected to use gold to power up your armor as you level, occaisionally finding something useful

anzenketh.3759:

As the game evolved did it get easier for alts? Yes. Skill scrolls is one item that made it easier. Was it possible to bypass this “gate” yes it is. However for the majority of players I would say that you are unlocking the same things at the same rate now as you were before.

Except you really aren’t. At least I’m not. Even if I am moving at the same rate and this is just a matter of perception, it’s still indicative of a poorly-implemented change that has made the game grindy, dull and dumb, and has been forced on people in lieu of the one of the game’s most highly-praised systems. Even if we could find a point of agreement that something needed to change in the early game, the way it has happened is stupendously awful and anti-player. An effective tutorial in the opening sequence, ala GW Nightfall, could have bypassed nearly all of these alleged problems, if the average gamer is half as inept as ArenatNet seems to believe.

The larger issue here is that early levels should not be so empty and mind-numbing as to make me want to skip them, yet the NPE has made this issue even more pronounced than it was.

Everybody that hates the NPE is going to take over the discussion after all the fixes have been released I believe. You’re going to see multiple posts by the same people that hate it, and it’s going to seem like a lot more people dislike the new changes, when in reality, it’s just those same people that really want to make their point across. And not that there is anything wrong with posting more than once, it is a discussion after all, but you get my point.

I mean you can see the evidence of it now, with people complaining in one thread over the subject, and then having some of those same people from that thread start up new threads on pretty much the same topic.

I do agree that some minor changes need to happen, but hopefully Anet doesn’t give in to the pressure and make a complete 180 to the NPE, because I believe some of these changes are good for the game.

So I can’t wait to chime in when all the fixes are done. Should be interesting.

As a lot people mentioned before, i want also to leave here my opinion that the changes made to starter areas and tutorial areas were a terrible decision. I really really want you guys to un-do these changes if possibe, thank you.