Guild Wars 2

I have a friend who is an old GW1 player who decided tonight that he was going to give GW2 a try, since it was a free trial and all.

I listened to him as he made a character, and played through level 6. He stopped at level 6 and said he was no longer interested.

Along the way, the main things he disliked was how dumbed down some of the hearts were. As a human, when he got to the farm, he found it quite silly to dance for a cow. I explained you used to be able to pick up feed sacks and feed the cows. He complained how there were so few weapon skills, and how boring it was to attempt to kill things so far.

He made it to the heart at Claypool, and this is where he pretty much got fed up. He again was saying it was very boring, and nothing was there to keep your attention. No story to drive you. I explained to him that the personal story has been split up into chapters now, unlocked every 10 levels. Shortly after completing the heart at Claypool, he exited the game.

From all that I gathered from listening to him, the level gating on the skills made combat boring, the hearts themselves were too simplified to keep his attention, and because the story is now locked into chapters every 10 levels, there was nothing there to keep him interested or going. He was just roaming around aimlessly, with no sort of focus.

Basically, what would have been another member of the community has probably been lost due to the changes brought on by the NPE.

First and foremost let me congratulate the Anet team for all of the wonderful changes being made to the game.

Hate me all you want but the champ trains hurt the game more than make it great. (you hit the 1 key like a feeder bar and are rewarded. Do not move forward. Don’t do anything else but this.) Oh and the Tequatl fight as well as any other nice addition to the game. (please bring the Marrionette fight back.) Will only infuriate you.

Love the addition of teaching roll as well as some of the base limitations.

Let’s face it. Who actually cares about the world of Tyria. Human zones look all alike as well as everyone elses. (thank you for changing Kessex Hills.)

I always complained that the areas and quests were quite similar.
Char vs ghosts, Asura vs Inquest, humans vs centaur, and so on a so forth. I was nice seeing the change to Kessex Hills. Can we get more changes. To include all other races into some kind of semblance of unity. (minus the dragon…because that was sorta pointless.)

Can we get more bases and a larger foothold in Orr for lvl 80 toons that have completed the story? To show that all the work and effort is worth it. And to show a bigger world shaping event. Like choices mean something.

It would be nice to see some things from Guild Wars 1 being used. Like the guild halls. New skills being discovered around the world. To create a more unique toon. In other words here is a weapon master. They will teach you new skills for a quest or price. (no gems.) Then you can redo a skill bar according to what you want to use.

Yes this would make it tough on the team to balance. In PvE or PvP/WvW. If done right you make more people happy and have people experience the rest of the world. With a mission for something usefull to them. And it gives the story writers an opportunity to get players to care about the world their toons exist.

For starters past lvl 30 is a chore to lvl. Because the areas are so scattered and dull by then. Pirates in Genderran Fields feel more like a small group of thugs that enjoy the beach. Can you add pirate ships and shipping vessels being attacked as events or quests? Because it is so kitten close to everything already done that why bother?

I played the beta and launch. After two months I was done saying this was a rushed product. After almost a year vast improvements have happened.

I now try to get friends to play. After I trashed this product save for it’s art and ditching the Holy Trinity. But improvements still must be made.

The new starting zones are shaping up. The new skills and extras that some classes have received are great. And the Living story is much better than previously.

It would be nice to see new classes. Like the monk. Come on the Char hairdo points in that direction. New weapon skills. New race/class based skills. So you have more reason to have 3 engineers and not just for looks.

Plus adding better content to higher lvl zones. Because they get boring or seem useless or why bother. It would be great if anyone can get attached to the world or what is going on in it. But so far most content seems rushed, dull, and a quick fix to keep the public happy.

The new living story content looks like a great blessing. Giving devs time to create and put out the content. And the content stays for a bit longer than the rush two weeks deal.

I really want to have a reason to get people into this game/world. Most of the gamers I know are interested in exploration, story, and character development. And instead they received quick do this/ get this content. Adding a few game mechanics here and there. But ultimately pushing them away. Content should be meaningful. (Lions Arch and Kessex Hills are great examples of right without the rush of content.)

I realize this game has three modes to it. Somewhat splitting the player base PvE, PvP, and WvW.

Breaking those down it would be nice to see each of those areas get content and fine tuning to ensure a great experience.

PvP for me looks kind of like a joke so far. I wait 10 minutes for a match get in to find out I only have 2 or 3 other people on my team. (or vice versa.) I would think after the wait you could get a better grouping together. I do not mind losing to better skilled players. But it is irritating to see or be on a outnumbered team.

I know soon I will get bashed and be told to go back to my pandas or lightsabers. But I really think this product and game world has massive potential. So much in fact that even though I have bought two copies of the game. And a upgrade. I still on a regular basis spend money in the gem store.

Can we please have player created weapons and armor come in on a voting process similar to Dota 2 or Everquest Next once it is released.

Ok large rant and such but keep up the good work and please resolve some of these issues.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Broom.2561:

From my experience of playing a new character, without ‘helping’ by providing armor / gear / etc. a new player has no access to

1). Offhand weapons (warhorn) level 1 still drop, while they cannot be used till level 7. Pointless.

2). Tameable pets have mostly vanished from the low level zones. Wayfarer Foothils used to have juvenile ice drakes, brown bears, snow leopards, wolves and ravens. Only the ravens are now left. I found snow leopards and ravens in Hoelbrak, but no juvenile brown bears, ice drakes or wolves. This is a severe impoverishment of ranger gameplay, and makes it harder to experiment with different pets.

3). Hearts have been dumbed down to the point of utter boredom. I really see no point in e.g. removing combat skills while changed to snow leopard form or removing bundles. It also seems to me the difficulty of mobs has been decreased dramatically, to the point of being almost no-risk.

4). Unlocking weapon skills now involves no actual use of the weapon at all, you just need to equip it. I do not think this contributes to people actually learning the possibilities of each weapon and it’s frankly boring. Please note I call it boring both from a veteran perspective AND from a ‘new to guild wars but veteran gamer’ perspective. I cannot really judge it from the perspective of someone entirely new to MMOs, although I do rather think that if this had been my first MMO, I’d have hated it too.

5). I was drawn to Guild Wars 2 because it had so many different things you could do to level, which suited my guild, which is a mix of PVPers (world pvp mostly), crafters, explorers and loot hunters. Your new player experience skips most of this in favor of PVE combat, the thing that frankly interests most of us the least, and only points to all the stuff that brought us here in the first place in a later stage.

Yes, you DO point it out after a few hours of play. But at that point, you’ve already created an impression of what the game is about. Which is at this point PVE combat boredom.

6). I was unable to use the krait obelisk shard in my home instance at level 9, which is apparently level 10+ now. Seriously?

All the rest has already been said before, probably some of this has been said too.
The game now looks as if it caters to 6 year olds.

Just an FYI…a character always needed to be Level 10 to use the Krait Obelisk in the Home Instance. That has nothing to do with the NPE. =)

I honestly wouldn’t know, since I can’t really recall when I brought my pre-NPE noobies to the obelisk. I do think it’s irritating and superfluous though. The mere fact I HAVE an obelisk shard would imply I’m veteran enough to have obtained one and could be expected to know what SP are about. I could conceivably load up the character with skill scrolls to get SP. Admittedly, I’m not sure if that still works, but I’m pretty sure I did for the SP daily on other new characters before this. But even then, I would not be able to use the skill slots that are reserved for higher levels. Wasn’t going to waste any on a test character I was going to delete, though.

Either way, however irritating this may be, it’s an issue that only affects veteran accounts, not new players. Just put it out there because it really IS irritating.

Kreejaffa.3682:

I have a friend who is an old GW1 player who decided tonight that he was going to give GW2 a try, since it was a free trial and all.

I listened to him as he made a character, and played through level 6. He stopped at level 6 and said he was no longer interested.

Along the way, the main things he disliked was how dumbed down some of the hearts were. As a human, when he got to the farm, he found it quite silly to dance for a cow. I explained you used to be able to pick up feed sacks and feed the cows. He complained how there were so few weapon skills, and how boring it was to attempt to kill things so far.

He made it to the heart at Claypool, and this is where he pretty much got fed up. He again was saying it was very boring, and nothing was there to keep your attention. No story to drive you. I explained to him that the personal story has been split up into chapters now, unlocked every 10 levels. Shortly after completing the heart at Claypool, he exited the game.

From all that I gathered from listening to him, the level gating on the skills made combat boring, the hearts themselves were too simplified to keep his attention, and because the story is now locked into chapters every 10 levels, there was nothing there to keep him interested or going. He was just roaming around aimlessly, with no sort of focus.

Basically, what would have been another member of the community has probably been lost due to the changes brought on by the NPE.

yes, i figured this would be the case. I think they didnt realize, is a new player, especially the type who is going to leave quickly, needs a hook. The redesign of the game has no hooks.

Virtually nothing in the begining of the game is engaging anymore. In fact it always had this kind of problem, but NPE enhanced it.
moving story to level 10, basically makes starting the game about doing, doing a bunch of stuff you have no idea if you want to do, for no real reason

now, if the pure joy of playing the game/interacting with the world was high early, people may get distracted by the joy of playing and not realize it. But the npe dramatically decreases the chances of this, by making everything too easy, depthless. The pacing of new or interesting mechanics is too slow, the combat is to easy, the world people are interacting with is too simplified.

one hour is too long for a player to play with no compelling narrative.
if monsters were designed better, with more danger, than perhaps you could still get some thrill out of fighting an enemy with only two attacks, but it isnt, they stand there, and die.

i think if they wanted to improve player retention they should have focused NPE less on slowing down everything, and more on engaging the player. The more interesting something is, the more likely people will stick around to learn the ins and outs.

I have this distant memory about a time where ArenaNet’s philosophy was to make the concept of “levels” less important. It is a system that’s illogical: you’re killing stuff, doing stuff, learning stuff, and your character’s ability doesn’t improve. Then suddenly you reach a threshold of experience and BAM, suddenly you are a whole lot better than 5 seconds ago. This concept is outdated, and ArenaNet knew this.

That’s what made GW2 and even GW1 quite great. There were so many ways to progress and improve, that were not linked to character level at all. Remember the skill points in GW1 for instance — you got one per level, but you got way more of them by doing missions. (In GW2, skill point events do this trick too.) You even learned skills by doing quests, removing the need to get skill points in the first place.

In GW2, this was implemented very nicely as well. The way everything unlocked gradually was perfect, and the pace was perfect as well. This was especially true with the way weapon skills unlocked: you (the player) learned to use the weapon gradually by using it for the first time on your character, and this made the learning experience quite smooth.

Now, I wonder if ArenaNet still has this philosophy. I made a new character a couple of days ago, and it seems absolutely everything is tied to character levels. That’s a 180 degrees turn if I’ve ever seen one.

Now, I am usually not against change, but going back to a concept that was considered to be completely outdated (not because of trends, but simply because it had been clear that the concept was illogical) already when GW1 came out? I disapprove, and I think I’m not the only one.

Honestly I had been trying to grab a friend to the game for almost 1 year now, and now they finally decided to give it a try (they didn’t do before due slow connection that would take them a long time to download it). But now with these changes I’m afraid of their opinion and I would feel ashamed if they tell me the game is boring or annoying after all the praise and stuff I gave when telling about the game… The most of the bright sides of the game I told them a while back are now dumbed down and boring… :S

Oh and a little point to add: I’m also not against changes and such (I loved the new TP and what they did with minis), but I’m against the way they did these changes regarding NPE, it could have done way different than what it is now.

phys.7689:

one hour is too long for a player to play with no compelling narrative.

^ this right here.

I finally convinced a friend of mine to give the game a try. She decided to play through the trial. She didn’t get past level 7 because she said it was boring. I told her to just keep at it, but she said there’s nothing to do.

I don’t understand why the decision to push the start of the personal story to level 10 was made. If there was a problem with key farming, just don’t put in a key as the reward for early stories. Make keys not be rewarded until level 20 or something. But the story itself is a way to retain players during the first few levels. It gives your character meaning and continues feeding off the customization done during character creation.

Hearts are not a hook into the game. The hearts have always been boring to me. Sure a few of them were amusing, like the sylvan hounds in Celadon Forest. I do remember that one fondly (which is changed now). But for the most part the hearts are dull. And Anet just added more of them and made them even more simplistic. I think a better solution would be to reduce the amount of hearts per map, but make the tasks to complete them more interesting. Make the hearts into mini quests/stories themselves. But in order to do that there needs to be less of them per map. They should be special, not just “how can I finish this as fast as possible to complete this map.”

I do agree with you there, Penarddun. Hearts do need to be improved upon rather than cut off certain bits as they are easy enough to accomplish to the point where the fun factor wanes quickly.

Regarding the whole locking of the story mission every 10 levels, I don’t mind it myself as I always have more stuff to do to attain those levels with ease. But I am thinking that instead of locking the story missions, why not just make them more difficult to accomplish if you are not at the ideal level much like before the patch?

Penarddun.6827:

Sure a few of them were amusing, like the sylvan hounds in Celadon Forest. I do remember that one fondly (which is changed now).

Yeah, I even didn’t want to leave that form when I first did it. Now I think I’m not going to have that chance again.. Not to mention becoming a Snow Leopard, I loved it, but I have heard it’s not that way anymore..

Oh another thing, I agree that hearts need some improvement to be less boring (worse now being too simplistic) but please don’t make them like the quests in some of the MMOs out there. I loved it in GW2 due the fact they aren’t like a list of tasks that get pilling up which you have to complete, I liked it they are area specific and you can always come back to do them, no matter what level you are, instead simply vanishing as you level up.

Penarddun.6827:

phys.7689:

one hour is too long for a player to play with no compelling narrative.

^ this right here.

I finally convinced a friend of mine to give the game a try. She decided to play through the trial. She didn’t get past level 7 because she said it was boring. I told her to just keep at it, but she said there’s nothing to do.

I don’t understand why the decision to push the start of the personal story to level 10 was made. If there was a problem with key farming, just don’t put in a key as the reward for early stories. Make keys not be rewarded until level 20 or something. But the story itself is a way to retain players during the first few levels. It gives your character meaning and continues feeding off the customization done during character creation.

Agreed, even though i’m familiar with the game i felt lost without having the option of doing story. My first hour or two of my new character I did more random killing yellows for xp than ever in my gw2 experience. I wasnt even unlocking skills. It just seemed to be the thing to do, and was slow and unpromising for the rest of the game.

Malkavian.4516:

But I am thinking that instead of locking the story missions, why not just make them more difficult to accomplish if you are not at the ideal level much like before the patch?

Even before patch story steps already was a somewhat hard to complete if you were lower level than the step.

shadow.6174:

Malkavian.4516:

But I am thinking that instead of locking the story missions, why not just make them more difficult to accomplish if you are not at the ideal level much like before the patch?

Even before patch story steps already was a somewhat hard to complete if you were lower level than the step.

If you thought of them like any normal rpg or other single player game they were very easy, because even if you died you’d just go back to a checkpoint and get to start again. There was no lasting consequence for death (unless you borked so much your armor all broke, but I’ve never heard of this). If you were hellbent on doing the story and not a very strong player/had a lot of disadvantages, you still could.

shadow.6174:

Malkavian.4516:

But I am thinking that instead of locking the story missions, why not just make them more difficult to accomplish if you are not at the ideal level much like before the patch?

Even before patch story steps already was a somewhat hard to complete if you were lower level than the step.

Again, really remember a lot of “Doc Howler is impossible” talk going on before (I tried it and noticed that it pretty much was a wake-up about not trying to tank conditions all the time and ignore them.)

RANGER PET BUG STILL NOT FIXED MORE THAN A YEAR LATER

Wanna swap pets from your “inventory”? YOU GOTTA RENAME IT!

FIX PLS.

Allelya.6830:

RANGER PET BUG STILL NOT FIXED MORE THAN A YEAR LATER

Wanna swap pets from your “inventory”? YOU GOTTA RENAME IT!

FIX PLS.

That’s not a bug. That’s them not wanting to spend the memory space on storing all the names. They’ve stated it as such.

First time on the forum but I have been playing since beta.
But this feature pack has really frustrated me.
I started a character and I kinda felt insulted by the simplicity of the starter world. I mean, I can’t even help anyone get out of down till a certain level. I can’t even be downed until a certain level. I can’t go collect skill points anymore until I am a certain level. This doesn’t give me any challenge. There is no fun in following around a little pointer instead of actually exploring the world. The world is also to simple. The world of Guild Wars 2 used to have little, fun hearts to do and interesting places to get to.
I also don’t understand why they changed the story system. That is what made me love this game. I don’t even feel motivated to play my mid-level characters because of this. I have a level 45 that can’t start the next chapter of the story until level 60. Why would this make the game easier to learn? By taking away one of the best aspects of the game?
The first thing that that got me on my new character was the weapon skills. I don’t feel like I’m being rewarded when I level. I felt rewarded when I actually had to learn my skills. I actually liked going out and learning all the weapons for my class. Plus the levels to unlock the other skills are ridiculous.
I haven’t fully explored these new features this because these that I mentioned has turned me off from the game. I mean, I like the other updates, you know the trading post and the wardrobe, but the new player experience and the chapter stories are making veteran players angry.
I have been trying to get my friends to play Guild Wars 2, but now I wouldn’t recommend it to them. They would probably think it is boring like I do.

Sorry if it sounds like I am ranting but this really frustrates me. I don’t want to stop playing the game I love because of this.
Thank you

eyestrain.3056:

If you thought of them like any normal rpg or other single player game they were very easy, because even if you died you’d just go back to a checkpoint and get to start again. There was no lasting consequence for death (unless you borked so much your armor all broke, but I’ve never heard of this). If you were hellbent on doing the story and not a very strong player/had a lot of disadvantages, you still could.

Yes, I just said it was “somewhat hard”, not that they weren’t doable. I have even tried it myself a few times on past, even after failing several times I could still complete it (with no much loss, maybe 2 or 3 armor piece broken only). So, harder but doable.

dstrick.8063:

I can’t even help anyone get out of down till a certain level. I can’t even be downed until a certain level.

Wait, what? Low level players can’t revive or help downed people anymore? O.O If so, I hadn’t heard or seen about it so far.

dstrick.8063:

I don’t even feel motivated to play my mid-level characters because of this.

Yeah, I feel like that too and I even have 2 low level alts that I have put in hold because of that.

Small side note: You can equip an off hand weapon if you go to the heart of the mists before level 7. You still don’t get the skills, but at least it equips and isn’t sitting in your inventory.

I made a new character to try PvP with, and just realized that even in Lion’s Arch, she has her off hand weapon sitting in the equip slot.

Gaile Gray.6029:

The devs have been reviewing your feedback on the New Player Experience. While some bug fixes have already been made, the team will be making other updates in the future to address:

• Plot holes and story inconsistencies that may have been introduced with story realignment
• Replacing the missing profession mechanics UI for the Ranger and Mesmer professions
• Investigating issues that prevent players from retaining some skills (heal, utility, and elite) that they had previously unlocked
• Addressing an issue with bundles that prematurely unlocked utility and elite skills

Other aspects of the NPE are being examined, and your constructive feedback is welcome and appreciated.

I know come rathe rlate into this but i want post what i wrote in antoher thread, which describes HOW you programmer of anet can improve the NPE,like hwo tomake an tutorial and such. warning though since i only copy and paste there will be some word chioches not so eliterate:
yeah the problem is NOT thats its not avilable. you don´t NEED to dodge or pay attention to condis at all. THATS the problem. by the time they enter the 15-25 zones they probably forgot the only time they needed to dodge. and they ahd to dodge into an AOE circle, teaching it´s okay to do so.
Anet should have not jsut removed thing, they should have redesign the approch to basic combat features. Like a mini boss in a heartquest that has a knock back and an NPC yells for help and also warns them to DODGE his mighty weapon swing, in addition to the pop ups telling whihc key to press.
after this mini boss you can have normal mobs having abilities you can dodge but they are not a game changer. they jsut exists to give the new player a constant use of a newly learned ability. same with condis: either a boss or an Aoe that causes cripple (because it only slows a palyer down and does no dmg) needs to be dealt with. a frinedly NPC could help the player out be periodicly removing the conditions always saying something when he does so, drawing the palyers attention to the fact that he has conditions. with the rewrd there can a hint that certain skill can remove condis. and when the palyer moves on he find more mobs each with different condis. atm the moment they only cause one or two condis but the player would have after learned about condis constanly situation where condis can be applied. He gets thought to play the game properly without throwing only pop ups in his face. The player learns the game by playing it. that is the best indicator of a very good game.
To weapons skill: level gating is still dumb. instead they could have re arranged some hearts in the starting zones to train with their weapons.
for exsample the one heart in queens vale where you “practice” to handle weapons. move that closer to the beginning and actually let players “learn” their weaponskills. you get free weapons for it (whihc disappear after you finshed all weapons skills) to leanr all possible skills but you only need one or two weapons the new players allready has.
like that new players are ACTIVLY encouraged to pay attention to skills and learn playfully to use them. they learn what weapons they can use with their class and actually their class in of itself. again the player learns to play “BY PLAYING THE F*****G GAME” (quote Arin Hanson aka Egoraptor)(seriously anet i recommend his video on megaman X. it´s a really good look how to make the players learn your game also its funny)
And that allone can awake the sensation of accomplishment. By playing the game and learning the basics, knowing how you can approch enemies in of it self can be a big reward for all newcomers.
From that point new comers will look into the utility skill they unlock, test them and find their own way to use them, build a build on their own.
And then come the traits. the want to explore the world for its traits allone has begun and newcomers explore the world, learn the lore from NPCs and players and continue on becoming better players, become low level pugs that don´t suck in doungens and much more.
does this what i describbed sound 1000x better then what the NPE is right now? doesnßt this sound like…..the manifesto?

Broom.2561:

6). I was unable to use the krait obelisk shard in my home instance at level 9, which is apparently level 10+ now. Seriously?

It has been lvl11 for some time. Probably already from the start or shortly after that (start being the time when the obelisk was released obviously).

I know because I sometimes use a disposable character to get some fast skill points….

Now that I have leveled a character to 80 in the new NPE system, I have got to say I am not all that upset with it, it was fun, the rewards were good, sometime more than I expected, sometime less. I found the new hearts okay on my old toons, and realized the missing/moved ones on my new. All in all its a okay change…
Now to critique….
Those missing PS parts…are you really telling me you couldn’t find a place for them( I am so glad I got play them before they were gone.)
Also if your going to shuffle around PS missions you need to fix some of the dialogue, It sometimes refers to things that a character would not of known about.
The amount of XP rewarded for the PS should be upped a little, I don’t mind exploring doing hearts, skill points etc, and all that, but it does feel a little grindy…Not as grindy as some. Ive played in my many years of gaming…. UO..EQ1…when I started

I’d probably guess that the removal of those chapters wasn’t exactly intended. I mean, I was able to play Apatia’s quest with my elementalist since I started the Greatest Fear story prior the patch.

Changes are sometimes for the better, and sometimes for the supposed better (which end up being worse).

I invited a friend of mine to test GW2 during this free “weekend”. He is an avid WoW player but decided to try a game without subscription. He was so eager to play… Until he tested.

1. " So I have to wait to unlock skills? That’s stupid. " I explained. " Right, I didn’t know I was too dumb to read a description or try more than two skills at a time… "
2. " I am dancing in front of a cow… I feel stupid. " I explained about the bundles being too complex. " I can use a credit card but not a bundle when a message pops up, right. But it’s good: I can’t use more than two skills so… "
3. " No stats bonus while leveling? There’s no need for leveling then. " I explained the stats burst. " Ok, so you’re strong, then weak, then super weak, then strong, then weak, then super weak. Why don’t they just buff stats at lvl80? "
4. " There’s no story? " I explained level gated story parts. " I didn’t realize this game was made for kids between 3 and 4. "
5. " I’m bored, I’m only level 6 and I have nothing left to do… "

And that’s how a new player received NPE.

1. (armor) I felt like I was being mocked, I’d carefully make my gear for the next level 30,40,50,60 & stopped, because the game kept handing me gear better than what I could craft!

2. (cow) please change this back to ‘feed’ the cow, anything has to be better than what I saw when I was “entertaining the cow” which was boarder line illegal in most if not all countries.

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Changes are sometimes for the better, and sometimes for the supposed better (which end up being worse).

I invited a friend of mine to test GW2 during this free “weekend”. He is an avid WoW player but decided to try a game without subscription. He was so eager to play… Until he tested.

1. " So I have to wait to unlock skills? That’s stupid. " I explained. " Right, I didn’t know I was too dumb to read a description or try more than two skills at a time… "
2. " I am dancing in front of a cow… I feel stupid. " I explained about the bundles being too complex. " I can use a credit card but not a bundle when a message pops up, right. But it’s good: I can’t use more than two skills so… "
3. " No stats bonus while leveling? There’s no need for leveling then. " I explained the stats burst. " Ok, so you’re strong, then weak, then super weak, then strong, then weak, then super weak. Why don’t they just buff stats at lvl80? "
4. " There’s no story? " I explained level gated story parts. " I didn’t realize this game was made for kids between 3 and 4. "
5. " I’m bored, I’m only level 6 and I have nothing left to do… "

And that’s how a new player received NPE.

Yes, I’m sure with you explaining all that to him, and obviously you weren’t at all biased, you’ve definitely got a case study there.

My friend came back to the game, which he left because he didn’t like it. He’s level 15 today and likes it much better. The difference is, I didn’t tell him a bunch of stuff about how much better it used to be.

The real test will be the bulk of the people after the free trial who go on to buy the game. If it’s more than previous trails (significantly more) than Anet was right.

Vayne.8563:

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Changes are sometimes for the better, and sometimes for the supposed better (which end up being worse).

I invited a friend of mine to test GW2 during this free “weekend”. He is an avid WoW player but decided to try a game without subscription. He was so eager to play… Until he tested.

1. " So I have to wait to unlock skills? That’s stupid. " I explained. " Right, I didn’t know I was too dumb to read a description or try more than two skills at a time… "
2. " I am dancing in front of a cow… I feel stupid. " I explained about the bundles being too complex. " I can use a credit card but not a bundle when a message pops up, right. But it’s good: I can’t use more than two skills so… "
3. " No stats bonus while leveling? There’s no need for leveling then. " I explained the stats burst. " Ok, so you’re strong, then weak, then super weak, then strong, then weak, then super weak. Why don’t they just buff stats at lvl80? "
4. " There’s no story? " I explained level gated story parts. " I didn’t realize this game was made for kids between 3 and 4. "
5. " I’m bored, I’m only level 6 and I have nothing left to do… "

And that’s how a new player received NPE.

Yes, I’m sure with you explaining all that to him, and obviously you weren’t at all biased, you’ve definitely got a case study there.

My friend came back to the game, which he left because he didn’t like it. He’s level 15 today and likes it much better. The difference is, I didn’t tell him a bunch of stuff about how much better it used to be.

The real test will be the bulk of the people after the free trial who go on to buy the game. If it’s more than previous trails (significantly more) than Anet was right.

I didn’t tell him anything biased, but rather how things work. Just because I’m not praising the NPE the way you do doesn’t mean I’m all against it.

He might be one in a million, but the NPE won’t attract people from other games, ANet must be aiming for a totally new audience.

Vayne.8563:

Yes, I’m sure with you explaining all that to him, and obviously you weren’t at all biased, you’ve definitely got a case study there.

“A new player didn’t like the NPE so their friend must have sabotaged their ability to like it because otherwise that person would have obviously loved the NPE”

I think you should take another break from the forums, Vayne. Your white knight is showing.

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Vayne.8563:

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Changes are sometimes for the better, and sometimes for the supposed better (which end up being worse).

I invited a friend of mine to test GW2 during this free “weekend”. He is an avid WoW player but decided to try a game without subscription. He was so eager to play… Until he tested.

1. " So I have to wait to unlock skills? That’s stupid. " I explained. " Right, I didn’t know I was too dumb to read a description or try more than two skills at a time… "
2. " I am dancing in front of a cow… I feel stupid. " I explained about the bundles being too complex. " I can use a credit card but not a bundle when a message pops up, right. But it’s good: I can’t use more than two skills so… "
3. " No stats bonus while leveling? There’s no need for leveling then. " I explained the stats burst. " Ok, so you’re strong, then weak, then super weak, then strong, then weak, then super weak. Why don’t they just buff stats at lvl80? "
4. " There’s no story? " I explained level gated story parts. " I didn’t realize this game was made for kids between 3 and 4. "
5. " I’m bored, I’m only level 6 and I have nothing left to do… "

And that’s how a new player received NPE.

Yes, I’m sure with you explaining all that to him, and obviously you weren’t at all biased, you’ve definitely got a case study there.

My friend came back to the game, which he left because he didn’t like it. He’s level 15 today and likes it much better. The difference is, I didn’t tell him a bunch of stuff about how much better it used to be.

The real test will be the bulk of the people after the free trial who go on to buy the game. If it’s more than previous trails (significantly more) than Anet was right.

I didn’t tell him anything biased, but rather how things work. Just because I’m not praising the NPE the way you do doesn’t mean I’m all against it.

He might be one in a million, but the NPE won’t attract people from other games, ANet must be aiming for a totally new audience.

I don’t buy this at all. My friend is currently playing DDO and he played Guild Wars 1 before. He’s not totally new.

First of all, there are five starting areas. The cow thing is one event in Queensdale and you can complete it without ever dancing for a cow.

Your friend from WoW who said he had to wait to unlock stills was stupid is really strange, because you don’t get a billion skills up front in WoW either, you get more skills as you level. So I don’t get that at all.

If it’s all the same too you, I’ll wait for some actual evidence instead of your anecdotal evidence of one, offset by my anecdotal evidence.

Vayne.8563:

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Vayne.8563:

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Changes are sometimes for the better, and sometimes for the supposed better (which end up being worse).

I invited a friend of mine to test GW2 during this free “weekend”. He is an avid WoW player but decided to try a game without subscription. He was so eager to play… Until he tested.

1. " So I have to wait to unlock skills? That’s stupid. " I explained. " Right, I didn’t know I was too dumb to read a description or try more than two skills at a time… "
2. " I am dancing in front of a cow… I feel stupid. " I explained about the bundles being too complex. " I can use a credit card but not a bundle when a message pops up, right. But it’s good: I can’t use more than two skills so… "
3. " No stats bonus while leveling? There’s no need for leveling then. " I explained the stats burst. " Ok, so you’re strong, then weak, then super weak, then strong, then weak, then super weak. Why don’t they just buff stats at lvl80? "
4. " There’s no story? " I explained level gated story parts. " I didn’t realize this game was made for kids between 3 and 4. "
5. " I’m bored, I’m only level 6 and I have nothing left to do… "

And that’s how a new player received NPE.

Yes, I’m sure with you explaining all that to him, and obviously you weren’t at all biased, you’ve definitely got a case study there.

My friend came back to the game, which he left because he didn’t like it. He’s level 15 today and likes it much better. The difference is, I didn’t tell him a bunch of stuff about how much better it used to be.

The real test will be the bulk of the people after the free trial who go on to buy the game. If it’s more than previous trails (significantly more) than Anet was right.

I didn’t tell him anything biased, but rather how things work. Just because I’m not praising the NPE the way you do doesn’t mean I’m all against it.

He might be one in a million, but the NPE won’t attract people from other games, ANet must be aiming for a totally new audience.

I don’t buy this at all. My friend is currently playing DDO and he played Guild Wars 1 before. He’s not totally new.

First of all, there are five starting areas. The cow thing is one event in Queensdale and you can complete it without ever dancing for a cow.

Your friend from WoW who said he had to wait to unlock stills was stupid is really strange, because you don’t get a billion skills up front in WoW either, you get more skills as you level. So I don’t get that at all.

If it’s all the same too you, I’ll wait for some actual evidence instead of your anecdotal evidence of one, offset by my anecdotal evidence.

He happens to prefer human characters, is it strange? I don’t like Charrs, Asura, and Sylvari. I assume I can’t enjoy 100% of the game if I don’t like every class and test every place? The cows are one event, but more generally the first most people do.

I don’t play WoW, so besides writing what my friend told me, I can’t really say if he’s right or wrong.

As I said, he might be one in a million and we’ll only know what results “NPE + free weekend” give later on.

Again, you seem to believe that if it’s different from your point of view, it’s not true/logical. Fact is, most people aren’t like you or your friends. I don’t see why my friend shouldn’t give reason A not to love the game since you believe reason A is biased. Also, you ask for evidence but you provide as much evidence as I do: “my friend thinks/my guild believe” and that’s all. I would be quite surprised to see any of your guildmates come here and discuss the problem. I would gladly give you any evidence you want as soon as I will have any evidence supporting each and every of your argument in every topic on the forum, because besides some “I believe that it’s good because I’m not like you and coincidentally my friends like the game more too” chattering, you don’t provide much subject matter.

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Vayne.8563:

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Vayne.8563:

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Changes are sometimes for the better, and sometimes for the supposed better (which end up being worse).

I invited a friend of mine to test GW2 during this free “weekend”. He is an avid WoW player but decided to try a game without subscription. He was so eager to play… Until he tested.

1. " So I have to wait to unlock skills? That’s stupid. " I explained. " Right, I didn’t know I was too dumb to read a description or try more than two skills at a time… "
2. " I am dancing in front of a cow… I feel stupid. " I explained about the bundles being too complex. " I can use a credit card but not a bundle when a message pops up, right. But it’s good: I can’t use more than two skills so… "
3. " No stats bonus while leveling? There’s no need for leveling then. " I explained the stats burst. " Ok, so you’re strong, then weak, then super weak, then strong, then weak, then super weak. Why don’t they just buff stats at lvl80? "
4. " There’s no story? " I explained level gated story parts. " I didn’t realize this game was made for kids between 3 and 4. "
5. " I’m bored, I’m only level 6 and I have nothing left to do… "

And that’s how a new player received NPE.

Yes, I’m sure with you explaining all that to him, and obviously you weren’t at all biased, you’ve definitely got a case study there.

My friend came back to the game, which he left because he didn’t like it. He’s level 15 today and likes it much better. The difference is, I didn’t tell him a bunch of stuff about how much better it used to be.

The real test will be the bulk of the people after the free trial who go on to buy the game. If it’s more than previous trails (significantly more) than Anet was right.

I didn’t tell him anything biased, but rather how things work. Just because I’m not praising the NPE the way you do doesn’t mean I’m all against it.

He might be one in a million, but the NPE won’t attract people from other games, ANet must be aiming for a totally new audience.

I don’t buy this at all. My friend is currently playing DDO and he played Guild Wars 1 before. He’s not totally new.

First of all, there are five starting areas. The cow thing is one event in Queensdale and you can complete it without ever dancing for a cow.

Your friend from WoW who said he had to wait to unlock stills was stupid is really strange, because you don’t get a billion skills up front in WoW either, you get more skills as you level. So I don’t get that at all.

If it’s all the same too you, I’ll wait for some actual evidence instead of your anecdotal evidence of one, offset by my anecdotal evidence.

He happens to prefer human characters, is it strange? I don’t like Charrs, Asura, and Sylvari. I assume I can’t enjoy 100% of the game if I don’t like every class and test every place? The cows are one event, but more generally the first most people do.

I don’t play WoW, so besides writing what my friend told me, I can’t really say if he’s right or wrong.

As I said, he might be one in a million and we’ll only know what results “NPE + free weekend” give later on.

Again, you seem to believe that if it’s different from your point of view, it’s not true/logical. Fact is, most people aren’t like you or your friends. I don’t see why my friend shouldn’t give reason A not to love the game since you believe reason A is biased. Also, you ask for evidence but you provide as much evidence as I do: “my friend thinks/my guild believe” and that’s all. I would be quite surprised to see any of your guildmates come here and discuss the problem. I would gladly give you any evidence you want as soon as I will have any evidence supporting each and every of your argument in every topic on the forum, because besides some “I believe that it’s good because I’m not like you and coincidentally my friends like the game more too” chattering, you don’t provide much subject matter.

My point is a test case of one is as meaningless on EITHER side. We’ll know soon enough.

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

5. " I’m bored, I’m only level 6 and I have nothing left to do… "

That’s curious how ppl usually stops always at lvl 6…

Anyway, let’s put it this way: entertaining a cow isn’t logical in anywhere in universe, either RL or in game. A cow is hungry and what you do is dance in front it? C’mon, that’s non-sense. And again, what’s the difficulty in handling a bundle? Anyone curious enough could quickly figure out what to do with it and how to get rid of it. It’s even funny they took away bundles from starter hearts while I still see random bundles around in some starter areas (and with it I mean lower than lvl 5 areas)…

shadow.6174:

Anyway, let’s put it this way: entertaining a cow isn’t logical in anywhere in universe, either RL or in game. A cow is hungry and what you do is dance in front it? C’mon, that’s non-sense. And again, what’s the difficulty in handling a bundle? Anyone curious enough could quickly figure out what to do with it and how to get rid of it. It’s even funny they took away bundles from starter hearts while I still see random bundles around in some starter areas (and with it I mean lower than lvl 5 areas)…

I agree with that. But why is everyone ignoring the fact that since launch there’s been an event in Diessa Plateau where you have to dress up on a cow suit to teach cows how to be cows?

Seems to me that there was already silly stuff like that in game and no one said a word. Suddenly NPE comes out and oh it’s silly. If you were going to complain about silly stuff, there was plenty of stuff to complain about already.

This is just people jumping in the bandwagon, picking on one stupid change made to an event, because you know, it’s cool to pick on the NPE.

It would be valid if the game didn’t already have stuff just as stupid in it.

Vayne.8563:

shadow.6174:

Anyway, let’s put it this way: entertaining a cow isn’t logical in anywhere in universe, either RL or in game. A cow is hungry and what you do is dance in front it? C’mon, that’s non-sense. And again, what’s the difficulty in handling a bundle? Anyone curious enough could quickly figure out what to do with it and how to get rid of it. It’s even funny they took away bundles from starter hearts while I still see random bundles around in some starter areas (and with it I mean lower than lvl 5 areas)…

I agree with that. But why is everyone ignoring the fact that since launch there’s been an event in Diessa Plateau where you have to dress up on a cow suit to teach cows how to be cows?

Seems to me that there was already silly stuff like that in game and no one said a word. Suddenly NPE comes out and oh it’s silly. If you were going to complain about silly stuff, there was plenty of stuff to complain about already.

This is just people jumping in the bandwagon, picking on one stupid change made to an event, because you know, it’s cool to pick on the NPE.

It would be valid if the game didn’t already have stuff just as stupid in it.

It absolutely is grasping as straws. But, that doesn’t change the fact that this update ruined a lot of things I enjoyed about this game.

Jerus.4350:

Vayne.8563:

shadow.6174:

Anyway, let’s put it this way: entertaining a cow isn’t logical in anywhere in universe, either RL or in game. A cow is hungry and what you do is dance in front it? C’mon, that’s non-sense. And again, what’s the difficulty in handling a bundle? Anyone curious enough could quickly figure out what to do with it and how to get rid of it. It’s even funny they took away bundles from starter hearts while I still see random bundles around in some starter areas (and with it I mean lower than lvl 5 areas)…

I agree with that. But why is everyone ignoring the fact that since launch there’s been an event in Diessa Plateau where you have to dress up on a cow suit to teach cows how to be cows?

Seems to me that there was already silly stuff like that in game and no one said a word. Suddenly NPE comes out and oh it’s silly. If you were going to complain about silly stuff, there was plenty of stuff to complain about already.

This is just people jumping in the bandwagon, picking on one stupid change made to an event, because you know, it’s cool to pick on the NPE.

It would be valid if the game didn’t already have stuff just as stupid in it.

It absolutely is grasping as straws. But, that doesn’t change the fact that this update ruined a lot of things I enjoyed about this game.

This isn’t grasping at straws. Be honest with me, how many hours have you spent playng the game since launch? How many of those hours did you spend feeding cows?

Vayne.8563:

I agree with that. But why is everyone ignoring the fact that since launch there’s been an event in Diessa Plateau where you have to dress up on a cow suit to teach cows how to be cows?

Lol, true I had forgotten about that one. But well, even though the game already had silly stuff the point is they made more good things on stupidly silly things. The problem isn’t having silly stuff, some of them can be fun at times, but it’s the reason behind using them.

The event at Diessa Plateau was a “random” one that wouldn’t have much to do with leveling process. But using a silly stuff as reason for “teaching” people and using it because they suppose people aren’t “smart enough” to deal with “complex” stuff, yes this is the issue. It would be like using silly cartoons to teach numbering to a 15 years old student in elementary school just because you “suppose” they aren’t able to understand it yet.

shadow.6174:

Vayne.8563:

I agree with that. But why is everyone ignoring the fact that since launch there’s been an event in Diessa Plateau where you have to dress up on a cow suit to teach cows how to be cows?

Lol, true I had forgotten about that one. But well, even though the game already had silly stuff the point is they made more good things on stupidly silly things. The problem isn’t having silly stuff, some of them can be fun at times, but it’s the reason behind using them.

The event at Diessa Plateau was a “random” one that wouldn’t have much to do with leveling process. But using a silly stuff as reason for “teaching” people and using it because they suppose people aren’t “smart enough” to deal with “complex” stuff, yes this is the issue. It would be like using silly cartoons to teach numbering to a 15 years old student in elementary school just because you “suppose” they aren’t able to understand it yet.

I’m not disagreeing that the change made to the cow thing was a bad change. Just to be clear about that.

I’m simply saying that as a thing to complain about, it’s pretty low on my list. It affects people’s games for a good five minutes and that’s about it.

The biggest issue I have with it is that it sets a silly tone for a game that was previously fairly serious. But then I had the same problem with the lot of the stuff in the game. It’s hardly possible to think of this game as serious and dark when I’m sandwhiched between a guy with a quaggan backpack and another with a hylek hoodie.

Vayne.8563:

I’m simply saying that as a thing to complain about, it’s pretty low on my list. It affects people’s games for a good five minutes and that’s about it.

The biggest issue I have with it is that it sets a silly tone for a game that was previously fairly serious. But then I had the same problem with the lot of the stuff in the game. It’s hardly possible to think of this game as serious and dark when I’m sandwhiched between a guy with a quaggan backpack and another with a hylek hoodie.

Yes, I see what you mean. These things aren’t a big deal like several other bad changes regarding NPE. And yeah, it sounds like with NPE the game lost even more its seriously, even though it already was loosing some as you said.

shadow.6174:

Vayne.8563:

I’m simply saying that as a thing to complain about, it’s pretty low on my list. It affects people’s games for a good five minutes and that’s about it.

The biggest issue I have with it is that it sets a silly tone for a game that was previously fairly serious. But then I had the same problem with the lot of the stuff in the game. It’s hardly possible to think of this game as serious and dark when I’m sandwhiched between a guy with a quaggan backpack and another with a hylek hoodie.

Yes, I see what you mean. These things aren’t a big deal like several other bad changes regarding NPE. And yeah, it sounds like with NPE the game lost even more its seriously, even though it already was loosing some as you said.

Over all, I think the NPE is a positive change…not every bit of it, but over all. Maybe it’s 80% positive to me. The patch as a whole was more than that. It got over-shadowed by a huge reaction from the fan base, which I consider to be an over reaction.

Much of the stuff that was said about it wasn’t true at all, and by the time the true stuff was known, Anet had already made changes to it.

To me, the speed of leveling to 15 easily outweighed anything that I disliked about the changes and other things I got along the way made up for it in other ways.

The trait changes need a lot of work (but I don’t consider them part of the NPE). Furthermore, the personal story needs work, because apparently (I haven’t tested this myself), it got screwed up.

But the early hearts being changed…as in the first 1-10 area?

I just don’t see this as something to rebel against. People talk about the “chess” game in metrica being taken out, even though it was ridiculously easy to win at and maybe I’ve spent 10 minutes out of all my time in game doing it.

Vayne.8563:

But the early hearts being changed…as in the first 1-10 area?

I just don’t see this as something to rebel against. People talk about the “chess” game in metrica being taken out, even though it was ridiculously easy to win at and maybe I’ve spent 10 minutes out of all my time in game doing it.

You never get a second chance to make a good first impression.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

But the early hearts being changed…as in the first 1-10 area?

I just don’t see this as something to rebel against. People talk about the “chess” game in metrica being taken out, even though it was ridiculously easy to win at and maybe I’ve spent 10 minutes out of all my time in game doing it.

You never get a second chance to make a good first impression.

I love platitudes that people say but can’t be proven. I mean aside from being factually true, what it’s implying is anything but.

The first Star Trek Pilot was, after all, rejected. But a second was was made.

I think anyone that stops playing a game because they don’t like dancing with cows is someone I wouldn’t care to play with anyway.

I’d say anyone who doesn’t get up to level 20 before they judged an MMO, probably isn’t suited to MMORPGs.

Vayne.8563:

shadow.6174:

Vayne.8563:

I’m simply saying that as a thing to complain about, it’s pretty low on my list. It affects people’s games for a good five minutes and that’s about it.

The biggest issue I have with it is that it sets a silly tone for a game that was previously fairly serious. But then I had the same problem with the lot of the stuff in the game. It’s hardly possible to think of this game as serious and dark when I’m sandwhiched between a guy with a quaggan backpack and another with a hylek hoodie.

Yes, I see what you mean. These things aren’t a big deal like several other bad changes regarding NPE. And yeah, it sounds like with NPE the game lost even more its seriously, even though it already was loosing some as you said.

Over all, I think the NPE is a positive change…not every bit of it, but over all. Maybe it’s 80% positive to me. The patch as a whole was more than that. It got over-shadowed by a huge reaction from the fan base, which I consider to be an over reaction.

Much of the stuff that was said about it wasn’t true at all, and by the time the true stuff was known, Anet had already made changes to it.

To me, the speed of leveling to 15 easily outweighed anything that I disliked about the changes and other things I got along the way made up for it in other ways.

The trait changes need a lot of work (but I don’t consider them part of the NPE). Furthermore, the personal story needs work, because apparently (I haven’t tested this myself), it got screwed up.

But the early hearts being changed…as in the first 1-10 area?

I just don’t see this as something to rebel against. People talk about the “chess” game in metrica being taken out, even though it was ridiculously easy to win at and maybe I’ve spent 10 minutes out of all my time in game doing it.

I try to be as objective as possible about these things. There were a lot of good things in this patch. The PS and LW now align with each other (though apparently the former still needs some adjustment). leveling from 1-15 is faster, etc.

My two biggest complaints by far, which I feel like are pretty unanimous complaints and things that obviously worked better before – are weapon skill gating and the trait system. Also making it all but impossible to die in the early levels, which I actually feel is more hurtful than it is helpful to new players and makes a very bad first impression on people who have played MMOs before.

Unlocking weapon skills through use was both a more fun and a more helpful mechanic. Did they just change it for the sake of symmetry? The change literally makes zero sense from both a thematic and a functionality perspective.

Traits were more than fine before. World questing to unlock new fancy things should have been a system used for new skills. They should never have gutted and overhauled the trait system.. It feels very heavy-handedly as a minor investment to artificially increase content scalability with minimal effort.

With all that said, virtually none of the early game changes made in the last two major patches needed to happen. They were a huge waste of development effort that was done without proper consultation when most people would very clearly prefer to see a lot more new content being worked on. People are getting frustrated by that.

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

But the early hearts being changed…as in the first 1-10 area?

I just don’t see this as something to rebel against. People talk about the “chess” game in metrica being taken out, even though it was ridiculously easy to win at and maybe I’ve spent 10 minutes out of all my time in game doing it.

You never get a second chance to make a good first impression.

I love platitudes that people say but can’t be proven. I mean aside from being factually true, what it’s implying is anything but.

The first Star Trek Pilot was, after all, rejected. But a second was was made.

I think anyone that stops playing a game because they don’t like dancing with cows is someone I wouldn’t care to play with anyway.

I’d say anyone who doesn’t get up to level 20 before they judged an MMO, probably isn’t suited to MMORPGs.

You realize the people who quit before 20 is the people for whom npe was made?

They essentially are trying to target the first impression first hour of play crowf

My friends and I had just joined maybe two weeks or so before the 9/9 patch hit, and we were pretty hooked for that two weeks.
And then the patch hit and they levelgated weapon skills and story quests, and my friends quit pretty much immediately. I tried continuing to play but leveling alts is downright miserable now and getting any further on my high level character widens the gap from my friends who quit and won’t return until something is done about the gating, and any friends I had intended to refer the game to. I would have recommended this game to more people before the patch, but I can’t do it in good conscience now.
If I’m not the target audience for these changes, who is? Levelgating weapon skills is by far the worst feature they implemented and has made the early game an absolute chore. Levelgating story quests seems completely arbitrary and makes the questing/grinding between them really boring. This change is one I understand the least.

If they are really so attached to the idea of gating everything this way they should at least limit it to the first character made per account (which is an idea that has been brought up before, I’m just backing it.) I would rather they get rid of it altogether because I can’t imagine that first experience being enjoyable for ANYONE, but if it MUST be this way don’t force it on every character.

Please give me a good reason to return to this game, instead of just returning to the forums. I understand this is not the most constructive post but I’m really hoping that, at the very least, my dissatisfaction will add to the urgency of addressing the gating problem, instead of brushing it off. :/

Vayne.8563

I’d say anyone who doesn’t get up to level 20 before they judged an MMO, probably isn’t suited to MMORPGs.

This is exactly how I feel. So I wonder WHY THE HELL is arenent investing time in to players that obviously are not interested in the game and that are not suited to MMORPGs. Because that is what the NPE is here for, correct. To try and sway those that won’t stay. I think right there you just made the case that many against the NPE have been trying to make. Thank you Vayne.

The people that like the game are playing. You don’t need to change the game in to something else. These players have already shown that they are profitable. So why not give them more of want made them like the game. So that they keep showing you how profitable it is to keep them happy.

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

But the early hearts being changed…as in the first 1-10 area?

I just don’t see this as something to rebel against. People talk about the “chess” game in metrica being taken out, even though it was ridiculously easy to win at and maybe I’ve spent 10 minutes out of all my time in game doing it.

You never get a second chance to make a good first impression.

I love platitudes that people say but can’t be proven. I mean aside from being factually true, what it’s implying is anything but.

The first Star Trek Pilot was, after all, rejected. But a second was was made.

I think anyone that stops playing a game because they don’t like dancing with cows is someone I wouldn’t care to play with anyway.

I’d say anyone who doesn’t get up to level 20 before they judged an MMO, probably isn’t suited to MMORPGs.

Well, thanks to that wonderful leveling speed boost in the 1-15 level range, new players will get to level 20 almost before they know it! Then they can judge, judge, judge, ’til the cows come home!

Say, something that’s been puzzling me. Why did the devs bother to replace feeding the cows with ‘entertaining’ the cows? What purpose does that serve? Just more useless fluff that will give new players the impression that there’s more to the game than wandering around killing stuff.

New Player: Entertain the cows? When there’s stuff to kill? Ain’t nobody got time for that! Hoo wah! /e thud and blunder

As for Star Trek, yes, indeed, somebody (Lucy, perhaps) was impressed enough by the first pilot, The Cage, to arrange for a second. Roddenberry and pals submitted two scripts for the second Star Trek pilot: The Omega Glory and Where No Man Has Gone Before (a third, Mudd’s Women, was not ready in time). If, instead of those two, they’d submitted something like, say, Spock’s Brain, or something that featured green-blooded pointy-eared aliens dancing with hungry bovinesque creatures, what do you think would have happened? Well, I guess we’ll never know for sure, but I strongly suspect lenses would not be flaring where no lenses have flared before!

https://utopiancow.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/spock-cow1.jpg

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

But the early hearts being changed…as in the first 1-10 area?

I just don’t see this as something to rebel against. People talk about the “chess” game in metrica being taken out, even though it was ridiculously easy to win at and maybe I’ve spent 10 minutes out of all my time in game doing it.

You never get a second chance to make a good first impression.

I love platitudes that people say but can’t be proven. I mean aside from being factually true, what it’s implying is anything but.

The first Star Trek Pilot was, after all, rejected. But a second was was made.

I think anyone that stops playing a game because they don’t like dancing with cows is someone I wouldn’t care to play with anyway.

I’d say anyone who doesn’t get up to level 20 before they judged an MMO, probably isn’t suited to MMORPGs.

You realize the people who quit before 20 is the people for whom npe was made?

They essentially are trying to target the first impression first hour of play crowf

Yes. The old system with all that cool stuff didn’t keep them. But the NPE wasn’t just about dumbing things down. It was also about pacing, reward and direction. It does feel more rewarding to me, and that stupid arrow definitely provides direction.

You seem to think it was entertaining enough before, but that didn’t hold those people. I don’t think those people mostly left because it wasn’t entertaining enough. Anet at least believes that tests show that they left because of a combination of factors including the ones I listed above.

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

But the early hearts being changed…as in the first 1-10 area?

I just don’t see this as something to rebel against. People talk about the “chess” game in metrica being taken out, even though it was ridiculously easy to win at and maybe I’ve spent 10 minutes out of all my time in game doing it.

You never get a second chance to make a good first impression.

I love platitudes that people say but can’t be proven. I mean aside from being factually true, what it’s implying is anything but.

The first Star Trek Pilot was, after all, rejected. But a second was was made.

I think anyone that stops playing a game because they don’t like dancing with cows is someone I wouldn’t care to play with anyway.

I’d say anyone who doesn’t get up to level 20 before they judged an MMO, probably isn’t suited to MMORPGs.

You realize the people who quit before 20 is the people for whom npe was made?

They essentially are trying to target the first impression first hour of play crowf

Yes. The old system with all that cool stuff didn’t keep them. But the NPE wasn’t just about dumbing things down. It was also about pacing, reward and direction. It does feel more rewarding to me, and that stupid arrow definitely provides direction.

You seem to think it was entertaining enough before, but that didn’t hold those people. I don’t think those people mostly left because it wasn’t entertaining enough. Anet at least believes that tests show that they left because of a combination of factors including the ones I listed above.

The arrow is great, but it’s really scatter-brained. It doesn’t provide enough consistent direction to really help you find things to do. Perhaps having a new setting that limits it only to DEs or Renown Hearts would be even more helpful?

The other reason I think people are saying it feels like there’s nothing to do is because it’s not immediately obvious there IS a personal story when you first start out. I just finished the last available story block (;evel 60) on my new alt and saw that the green personal story text disappeared from my screen entirely. There is no mention of “Forging the Pact (unlocks at level 70)” or anything. I’m not sure if that is standard behavior, but that might be why people are feeling like there’s nothing to do and no direction at the beginning.

The personal story gave me that direction when I first started playing and only after a while did I realize that the story and the renown hearts were going to be two separate systems.

Suggestions:

• Unlock personal story at level 1 and every 10 levels after, and re-insert “My Greatest Fear” at level 60
• Put a clear message on screen that the next personal story block unlocks at X level.

felessan.9587:

Suggestions:

• Unlock personal story at level 1 and every 10 levels after, and re-insert “My Greatest Fear” at level 60

Except that violates the reasoning behind the change, to unlock a chapter only when a player can binge it in it’s entirety.

felessan.9587:

The other reason I think people are saying it feels like there’s nothing to do is because it’s not immediately obvious there IS a personal story when you first start out. I just finished the last available story block (;evel 60) on my new alt and saw that the green personal story text disappeared from my screen entirely. There is no mention of “Forging the Pact (unlocks at level 70)” or anything. I’m not sure if that is standard behavior, but that might be why people are feeling like there’s nothing to do and no direction at the beginning.

That’s something I have mentioned before. If it’s going to be locked or something, at least give some hint or info that they are still there but unavailable. Like in my case, I’m lvl 80 but my story is at lvl 79. The Hero panel doesn’t show what’s the next step, it only shows the completed ones. If it wasn’t for the UI at the top showing me it I wouldn’t have how to tell if I had something next, my first impression would be “it’s over”.