Guild Wars 2

One of my main general complaints with the NPE is that there are missed opportunities. I still see posts on other forums where people recommend giving the game a miss because combat is “lame and boring” and “has no depth” and “all you do is use your skills when they’re off cooldown” — for many skills, this is almost the exact opposite of how they should be used. Part of the problem is that the game doesn’t really provide much feedback to tell players that they’re doing it wrong, but the NPE could have at least tried to address that myth.

• Continuing with the “one-size-fits-all” complaint from my last post: mesmers now get a sword as a starting weapon. This means that the very first skill they learn after the tutorial is Blurred Frenzy. While that skill might not look complicated, it’s incredibly easy to misuse, and simply knowing what it’s there for requires theoretical knowledge of the game.

It isn’t a very good tutorial-esque system, no.

Point in case, I look over at Rift’s voiced video tutorials explaining important mechanics. Easily skipable by those that could write books on it all, easily refindable by anyone wanting a refresher, short, concise and useful.

Tutorials that expect people to stop and read things studiously are ineffective, especially now in the twitter age.

You have about 1 second to grab attention and, at best, 15-30 to explain important things if your attention grabbing mechanism works at all.

Voices are the best at grabbing attention – make the game talk to people to explain the things that if you don’t know, you’re boned.

Ashen.2907:

timmyf.1490:

Harper.4173:

Luckily he got a level 20 exp scroll and fixed the issue that way – but honestly – whoever is giving good feedback on the NPE must be very strange.

My guild has a handful of new players – mostly LOTRO players who were bullied into getting GW2 by old clan-mates. They all have nothing but positive feedback about the systems so far. I haven’t heard a single complaint about leveling taking too long or being boring. They’re just enjoying the game.

You can assume they’re “strange” because you disagree. I prefer to think that veteran players are not the target audience of the NEW player experience.

The person in the example he gave had never played an MMO before GW2, and had only made it to level 10 here. Hardly a veteran.

That’s the point. The NPE changes were supposed to make the game more accessible to new and inexperienced players.

But my friend didn’t find it to be better than the system before. He found it to be worse.

Jade Arkadian.9280:

I was a newbie too when the game was on beta i never felt overwhelmed by the game itself.
Compared to other MMO, Guild Wars 2 is pretty simple since you don’t have a massive quantity of skills or abilities .
I would suggest to roll back some changes of the NPE.

Not a beta player here, but I could say the same. At my first days I though GW2 a lot simpler than other MMOs (although I haven’t played many) and I never felt overwhelmed by the game itself too. In fact, I love figuring out things by myself and I hate being locked out just because someone else thinks that I’m not able enough to understand or deal with stuff.

Malkavian.4516:

Honestly, I thought the NPE is decent in trying to introduce new players to the mechanics, but I honestly think that you should give players some credit in letting them figure out the mechanics themselves. If you want to give them a tutorial, we got the very first story instance for them and you could always just make the necessary tweaks to those instances instead.

+1 to this.

Jade Arkadian.9280:

I would suggest to roll back some changes of the NPE.

Close.

I’d go more with something in the lines of:

Either make it optional (together with the old system) or burn it to the ground.

We want the play as it was. The events (I’m looking at golem chess, p.e.) as they were.
Trait system, weapon and skill unlock, skill swap…

To play it our way…

Edit: added stuff, corrected grammar.

So, wait, you’re telling me that mesmers and rangers still don’t have access to their basic profession skills when they start? That is four months worth of new players, hamstrung by this system. No wonder traits are still a mess. If it is taking an entire quarter of a year just to figure out how to give rangers and mesmers access to their class mechanics, I have severely overestimated how soon traits can be revamped.

Coming in Q4 2017: Rangers with pets!

I wish I had a gold piece for every time I hear a new player ask why the BL merchant at Trading Post Waypoint in Queensdale won’t talk to them.

That seems to be confusing them all.

Bellizare.5816:

I wish I had a gold piece for every time I hear a new player ask why the BL merchant at Trading Post Waypoint in Queensdale won’t talk to them.

That seems to be confusing them all.

No, that’s the right way to go. I mean… Can you imagine how confusing it can be for anyone thrown into a new world if they can perform trades? Well that must be as confusing as a ranger using pets, or a mesmer using illusions.

New players can’t handle this. Remember when we started playing? When I found out that my warrior could swing a sword… * whistles * I didn’t sleep for days and had to search the internet for a week trying to find a word that would describe that movement. I was SO overwhelmed with information at the time.

Currently the way me and my friends level up character is:

Play PvP until you have 60 or 80 Tomes of knowledge.
Instant level new character to 80
Delete all the soulbound junk

Now before the NPE some of us were doing PvE story, or EotM, but right now the PvE is so insulting, long and boring that doing PvP became the most rewarding and less annoying way to do it.

If that is what Anet intended then it’s a success. If to the contrary they wanted us to explore more of the PvE world it’s a failure, it just made people like me never want to look at it again. It’s would have been ok only if they released the game like this, but not after 2 years when everyone already has 5+ levels 80 and done world completion.

Zera Allimatti.2541:

level gated downed state:
This makes a little sense considering no other game that I know of has this feature.

Wrong.

Zera Allimatti.2541:

Level gated weapon/profession skills:
This feature… I was trying to like it, I really was. But no matter how much I tried, it always felt the same: needlessly limiting. I had a lot more enjoyment out of killing groups of foes to unlock skills. I also used to get excited when I got a new weapon and had to take the time to get a really good feel for the weapon, which also happened to unlock more skills as I did. By the time I unlocked skill 5, I had enough of an understanding of how the weapon functioned and how to best use it in whatever situation.

“I can stun, bleed, block, bleed, leap, bleed, stab really hard, bleed some more, and slash like crazy and bleed even more. Got it. Now, what stat combination is best for my character’s condition damage?” That was my thought process, not “holy crap 5 skills is too complicated! I can’t handle this! Wait, I have a skill on F1 as well? OMG MY BRAIN IS FRIED!” Now, a new player has to wait several levels before they can even begin to understand what a weapon is capable of. If I can do what I did, so can they. Plus, the starting instances can get really boring when playing as an elementalist with only a dagger and one skill with one simple animation making the exact same sound over and over for about 2 minutes until the boss dies. I could not press 1 fast enough and hard enough to make it end because of the limitations you guys set in place.

Not to mention that, as other people have pointed out, now if you decide to try out a new weapon after level 10, you’re immediately confronted with “Holy moly!! 5 skills I never tried before? What is this?” Unlike the old system, where you got skills as you used the weapon and thus became familiar with the skills as you played. Kinda shoots a hole in the “We don’t want to confuse new players” mantra.

shadow.6174:

Well, credits must be given when deserved. At least in a thing they seem to have done right…

• 88 people voted about Content Direction system (Objective Compass) (Results here). From these:
  • 32 (36%) thought it Good;
  • 24 (27%) were Indiferent;
  • 17 (19%) thought it Poor or bad;
  • 11 (13%) thought it Terrible.
  • 4 (5%) thought it Excelent.

So… doesn’t it ring a bell? Doesn’t it give a clue about if the new system succeeded or not?

Probably because the compass, unlike the rest of the NPE, can actually be turned off.

timmyf.1490:

You can assume they’re “strange” because you disagree. I prefer to think that veteran players are not the target audience of the NEW player experience.

If veteran players didn’t have to go through the NPE as well, then this might actually be relevant.

Gaile Gray.6029:

shadow — You are right, there haven’t been a lot of updates on this topic since the OP. I just wasn’t sure if you’d see the “We’re aware of these things” part. If so, my apologies. And yes, for the most part, changes to NPE are still on the “to do” list. But there’s no lack of understanding by the devs. For instance, our narrative director, Leah, posted about changes that need to be made in relation to the Personal Story.

But here’s the thing: It’s been almost 4 months now, and nothing about the NPE has been changed since the 9/16 patch except for the diving goggles not unlocking bug (ignoring the fact that that bug was introduced my the NPE). Just how long are we supposed to wait? I know I’ve mostly moved on the the games I was neglecting for GW2; I’m likely far from the only person to have done so. If you really think all the disgusted people are going to put up with this NPE kitten unchanged for over a year or so, you’ll likely find yourselves very disappointed.

HandOfKane.5409:

Gaile Gray.6029:

shadow — You are right, there haven’t been a lot of updates on this topic since the OP. I just wasn’t sure if you’d see the “We’re aware of these things” part. If so, my apologies. And yes, for the most part, changes to NPE are still on the “to do” list. But there’s no lack of understanding by the devs. For instance, our narrative director, Leah, posted about changes that need to be made in relation to the Personal Story.

But here’s the thing: It’s been almost 4 months now, and nothing about the NPE has been changed since the 9/16 patch except for the diving goggles not unlocking bug (ignoring the fact that that bug was introduced my the NPE). Just how long are we supposed to wait? I know I’ve mostly moved on the the games I was neglecting for GW2; I’m likely far from the only person to have done so. If you really think all the disgusted people are going to put up with this NPE kitten unchanged for over a year or so, you’ll likely find yourselves very disappointed.

I think it is more to it than a ‘Someone complains, we gotta do something about it!’ matter. They gott to gather information, what is bad and how can we fix it if it needs a “fix”. Just becouse 30 players on the forum complains it doesn’t realy mean that it is so bad as it seems on the forums. The only ones disappointed will be those who are disgusted by the NPE, with new changes maby some players who are disgusted by the NPE will not be that anymore but there will be other players Disgusted by the new new changes.

I like the NPE, the only thing I don’t like is the level gated Poi’s, Vistas, Skill Points, diving spots and other map related stuff, it does not do any good for new players in my opinion.

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

I think it is more to it than a ‘Someone complains, we gotta do something about it!’ matter. They gott to gather information, what is bad and how can we fix it if it needs a “fix”. Just becouse 30 players on the forum complains it doesn’t realy mean that it is so bad as it seems on the forums. The only ones disappointed will be those who are disgusted by the NPE, with new changes maby some players who are disgusted by the NPE will not be that anymore but there will be other players Disgusted by the new new changes.

I like the NPE, the only thing I don’t like is the level gated Poi’s, Vistas, Skill Points, diving spots and other map related stuff, it does not do any good for new players in my opinion.

Meh, you could make the exact same point about the opposite side. “Just because 10 people on the forum say that the NPE is the best thing since sliced bread, doesn’t mean it’s as good.” Can’t have it both ways; either forum opinions count or they don’t. And to insist that nothing should be changed since someone, somewhere, might complain is, well… you could say that about every patch since launch day. That horse left the barn long ago.

And like I said, if it takes Anet 4+ months to gather basic information, then that really doesn’t reflect very well on them, does it?

HandOfKane.5409:

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

I think it is more to it than a ‘Someone complains, we gotta do something about it!’ matter. They gott to gather information, what is bad and how can we fix it if it needs a “fix”. Just becouse 30 players on the forum complains it doesn’t realy mean that it is so bad as it seems on the forums. The only ones disappointed will be those who are disgusted by the NPE, with new changes maby some players who are disgusted by the NPE will not be that anymore but there will be other players Disgusted by the new new changes.

I like the NPE, the only thing I don’t like is the level gated Poi’s, Vistas, Skill Points, diving spots and other map related stuff, it does not do any good for new players in my opinion.

Meh, you could make the exact same point about the opposite side. “Just because 10 people on the forum say that the NPE is the best thing since sliced bread, doesn’t mean it’s as good.” Can’t have it both ways; either forum opinions count or they don’t. And to insist that nothing should be changed since someone, somewhere, might complain is, well… you could say that about every patch since launch day. That horse left the barn long ago.

And like I said, if it takes Anet 4+ months to gather basic information, then that really doesn’t reflect very well on them, does it?

I think it doesn’t reflect well on members of the forum that they think four months is a long time for any kind of change. Schedules are already in place to program things. This may very well be your priority, but in reality what percentage of the player base is actually negatively affected. No one can say.

It’s been theorized Anet is working on big projects behind the scenes. People are screaming out for content.

Should they drop every other project to get this fixed in four months?

And some of it was fixed right away. It was improved immediately. How come you don’t mention that?

Elite skills used to unlock at level 40, now they unlock at level 31. They lockout for many of the things including skill points is only for the first character you level under the new system.

Changes were made. Why do people ignore that? Why do people say it reflects badly on Anet when they did make changes fairly quickly.

There’s an assumption by some that the bulk of the population is affected by the NPE. I’m not convinced of that at all.

I think Anet is simply prioritizing, not around any individual players, but by what they see as important.

And I’ll take that over random forum opinions on most days.

naiasonod.9265:

I remain suspicious! My own hyperbole aside, it really is bizarre to me. I have no idea what all the factors are that go into deciding exactly what gets implemented and what doesn’t, though I continue to scratch my head at what I do know.

I think a lot of ANet’s behaviour makes a lot more sense if you dial back your development speed expectations significantly.
And I mean, very very significantly. Look at the speed with which they’re doing stuff. And I don’t mean LS content. I mean anything. Balance patches, bugfixes, PvP changes, living story (consider the huge gaps), reworks to seasonal events or updates of it, etc.

I don’t know why – it’s suspicious :P – but everything makes sense if you assume they’re slow as snails. Worse, actually. Only a handful of developers, that’s including the art people, none of which know the engine and only aided by 2-3 QA testers. That’s the kind of team I’d say puts out this much (or rather, little) development.

Whether this means NCsoft downsized ANet significantly from the former 350 people team, whether the main team has long been pulled and is working on GW3, we don’t know. It’s probably not an xpack or NCsoft would have been hyping it for shareholder placation purposes after the Wildstar fiasco.

But basically, re-consider how much they can do. Then what they’re doing – or not doing – makes a lot more sense.

Vayne.8563:

It’s been theorized Anet is working on big projects behind the scenes. People are screaming out for content.

Should they drop every other project to get this fixed in four months?

And some of it was fixed right away. It was improved immediately. How come you don’t mention that?
[..]
Changes were made. Why do people ignore that? Why do people say it reflects badly on Anet when they did make changes fairly quickly.

I would very much prefer things to be fixed and working properly than very shinny new content. I’m more up for 5 very well working features than 50 brand new contents.

Also, yes the fixes has been noted but they are just a minor “mending” for a big faulty system. The changes promised are big ones but the ones delivered so far has just been minor ones that shouldn’t be there since beginning. The “fixes” done were these, just fix for things not supposed to happen. What ppl want is changes to the way it was designed, to what they intended to have but was a fail. Both “fixes”, the delivered so far and the expected ones, aren’t the same thing.

Rangelost.4857:

The NPE did miss the mark, yes. But so did your friend.

If you don’t like the game, don’t play it.

I honestly can’t wrap my mind around the stupidity of this kind of post.

Ok, player doesn’t like it doesn’t play it.
Other player doesn’t like it doesn’t play it.
A thousand players don’t like it don’t play it.
Less income for Arenanet.
Less stuff coming.
More players quit (don’t like it don’t play it).
Even less money for Arenanet.
Servers slowly dying.
More players quit (don’t like it don’t play it).
End of GW2.

Seriously?

Vayne.8563:

I think it doesn’t reflect well on members of the forum that they think four months is a long time for any kind of change. Schedules are already in place to program things. This may very well be your priority, but in reality what percentage of the player base is actually negatively affected. No one can say.

It’s been theorized Anet is working on big projects behind the scenes. People are screaming out for content.

Should they drop every other project to get this fixed in four months?

That’s quite a stretch to equate “I’d like to see some changes or at least discussion of changes in four months” to “Every Anet employee should drop everything they’re working on right now and make the NPE perfect!”

Exaggerate much?

Also, if four months isn’t a long time for changes to come, then you’ve apparently confused Anet with Bioware.

Vayne.8563:

And some of it was fixed right away. It was improved immediately. How come you don’t mention that?

Elite skills used to unlock at level 40, now they unlock at level 31. They lockout for many of the things including skill points is only for the first character you level under the new system.

Changes were made. Why do people ignore that? Why do people say it reflects badly on Anet when they did make changes fairly quickly.

Apparently you didn’t read my post. I said that nothing has changed since the 9/16 patch. The things you mentioned were changed in the 9/16 patch.

Vayne.8563:

There’s an assumption by some that the bulk of the population is affected by the NPE. I’m not convinced of that at all.

I think Anet is simply prioritizing, not around any individual players, but by what they see as important.

And I’ll take that over random forum opinions on most days.

Again, either forum opinions count or they don’t. You can’t claim that “forum posts that disagree with me are just those of a loud and vocal minority” and then say that “The forum users who agree with me know what they’re talking about. Anet should definitely listen to them!” Though, if you’re just going to keep on pretending that all the posts and polls that show disgust at the NPE don’t exist, then well…. I’m afraid nothing more can be done.

Also what shadow said.

rapthorne.7345:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Keep in mind, World of Warcraft is the first MMO for a lot of players. So they expect something along those lines and mindsets. Vets, or those who played MMOs before WoW, have more experience and know there were games before Warcraft. They tend to be more open-minded because of their experiences with those other games.

We know, if we want a Warcraft experience with a game, we might as well play Warcraft. And, unfortunately, a lot of dead and dying MMOs who tried to copy, found this out the hard way.

Still, I do agree with almost everything you said, OP. +1 to both posts.

I would hardly say that WoW is the first for most MMO players, but Ultima Online’s format (the game WoW copied) has become the “standard” in MMORPG development, so almost everywhere you find the same trinity, the same UI layout, the same gameplay, but that is why GW2 is so great. It breaks the stale mould that MMORPG’s have been stuck in for a decade.

WoW has copied mostly Everquest .. UO was a totally different game.

And it seems that even SOE is moving away from the old raiding stuff with EQNext.

ANet said that retaining more players was an important issue, and that’s why they made the NPE.

Given that, the lack of support to refine and adjust the NPE is bad, bordering on horrifying. If this is how they deal with a major game development initiative, then there’s something going seriously wrong somewhere.

Gaile Gray.6029:

• Addressing an issue with bundles that prematurely unlocked utility and elite skills

This is agony… I read about this bug a while ago, I don’t know what is the case now, but it’s like… slam every door shut, lock them, throw away the keys.

I can’t stand the NPE.

As for some more feedback to the first post and seeing many of my baby rangers recently… I really would need to be able to hide the pet when at storage or just idling.

The rangers are not likely to ever level.

shadow.6174:

Vayne.8563:

It’s been theorized Anet is working on big projects behind the scenes. People are screaming out for content.

Should they drop every other project to get this fixed in four months?

And some of it was fixed right away. It was improved immediately. How come you don’t mention that?
[..]
Changes were made. Why do people ignore that? Why do people say it reflects badly on Anet when they did make changes fairly quickly.

I would very much prefer things to be fixed and working properly than very shinny new content. I’m more up for 5 very well working features than 50 brand new contents.

Also, yes the fixes has been noted but they are just a minor “mending” for a big faulty system. The changes promised are big ones but the ones delivered so far has just been minor ones that shouldn’t be there since beginning. The “fixes” done were these, just fix for things not supposed to happen. What ppl want is changes to the way it was designed, to what they intended to have but was a fail. Both “fixes”, the delivered so far and the expected ones, aren’t the same thing.

What people want. You said it. You know what people want.

You know what you want. You know what people who agree with you want. But I wish people would stop talking for people.

You can not convince me that more people want what you want than want new content. You’ll have a hard time convincing me that most people know about the bugs you speak of. I talk to people all the time who have been playing since launch and hardly ever notice a bug.

Yes, the forum faithful will notice these things, but we’re not the typical player. So if everyone on the forums notices these bugs and most other people don’t (that’s if), then we still have a majority of players who’d probably rather have new content.

HandOfKane.5409:

Vayne.8563:

I think it doesn’t reflect well on members of the forum that they think four months is a long time for any kind of change. Schedules are already in place to program things. This may very well be your priority, but in reality what percentage of the player base is actually negatively affected. No one can say.

It’s been theorized Anet is working on big projects behind the scenes. People are screaming out for content.

Should they drop every other project to get this fixed in four months?

That’s quite a stretch to equate “I’d like to see some changes or at least discussion of changes in four months” to “Every Anet employee should drop everything they’re working on right now and make the NPE perfect!”

Exaggerate much?

Also, if four months isn’t a long time for changes to come, then you’ve apparently confused Anet with Bioware.

Vayne.8563:

And some of it was fixed right away. It was improved immediately. How come you don’t mention that?

Elite skills used to unlock at level 40, now they unlock at level 31. They lockout for many of the things including skill points is only for the first character you level under the new system.

Changes were made. Why do people ignore that? Why do people say it reflects badly on Anet when they did make changes fairly quickly.

Apparently you didn’t read my post. I said that nothing has changed since the 9/16 patch. The things you mentioned were changed in the 9/16 patch.

Vayne.8563:

There’s an assumption by some that the bulk of the population is affected by the NPE. I’m not convinced of that at all.

I think Anet is simply prioritizing, not around any individual players, but by what they see as important.

And I’ll take that over random forum opinions on most days.

Again, either forum opinions count or they don’t. You can’t claim that “forum posts that disagree with me are just those of a loud and vocal minority” and then say that “The forum users who agree with me know what they’re talking about. Anet should definitely listen to them!” Though, if you’re just going to keep on pretending that all the posts and polls that show disgust at the NPE don’t exist, then well…. I’m afraid nothing more can be done.

Also what shadow said.

Now where did I say that the forum people were a loud vocal minority? And why during an argument must you misquote me to try to make it sound like I’m saying something I’m not? Because that’s exactly what you’re doing.

I doubt I’ve ever used the words vocal minority when talking about the forums and if I did it was a long time ago. Nor have I ever said the forum opinion doesn’t count. Those words never ever came out of my mouth, nor did I ever imply it.

I simply said that a majority on the forums doesn’t necessarily mean most players want something, which most people would read to be self-evident.

In fact, I’ve said many times over many posts that I don’t think any group actually has a majority of any size, and that I think most groups are minorities including the section of the fan base I represent. Which means no matter what Anet does, they’re likely to kitten off a percentage of the fan base.

I do believe (as in this is my belief), that most players log into the game, kill some stuff, farm some stuff and log off, without ever visiting the forums or ever being aware of the deeper issues.

That doesn’t mean that’s said on the forums has not value. But it doesn’t mean that what’s said on the forums has absolute value either.

People who speak for other people, they say thinks like “what people want” are part of the problem, not part of the solution. Because they’re implying they know what people want. They’re implying some sort of majority mandate (including the guy you’re agreeing with).

My post is more reasonable, because I’m not assuming I have a majority. I’m just not assuming you have a majority either.

I think far more people were affected by the trait overhaul than the NPE, but that’s just my opinion.

Logically, however, people who level 1 character and never level a character again (there are many) aren’t likely to be affected by it and people like me, who level many characters aren’t particularly affected by it (at least not in a negative sense). I’m sure there are people who aren’t like me who level characters who are affected by it.

It’s my belief that it’s not as many as you think, particularly after the first spate of changes.

I was thinking about how after the NPE patch we get (most) stat-boosts and unlocks at steps of 6 levels, 14 steps in total. Which made me think that after the NPE Anet could easily revamp the level system to be a lvl 1-to-15 system instead of 1-to-80.

Right now there really is no reason for there to be more than 15 levels and with the NPE it actually became more confusing because you don’t actually gain anything when you level up until you reach lvl 4, 10, 16, 22, 28, 34, 40, 46, 52, 58, 64, 70, 76 or 80.

So why not change that to lvl 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, make level 15 the new cap and then make gaining a level go a little slower? Make the leveling-up experience more similar to GW1 but with only 15 levels instead of 20. Wouldn’t that make more sense than the leveling-system we have now after the NPE?

HandOfKane.5409:

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

I think it is more to it than a ‘Someone complains, we gotta do something about it!’ matter. They gott to gather information, what is bad and how can we fix it if it needs a “fix”. Just becouse 30 players on the forum complains it doesn’t realy mean that it is so bad as it seems on the forums. The only ones disappointed will be those who are disgusted by the NPE, with new changes maby some players who are disgusted by the NPE will not be that anymore but there will be other players Disgusted by the new new changes.

I like the NPE, the only thing I don’t like is the level gated Poi’s, Vistas, Skill Points, diving spots and other map related stuff, it does not do any good for new players in my opinion.

Meh, you could make the exact same point about the opposite side. “Just because 10 people on the forum say that the NPE is the best thing since sliced bread, doesn’t mean it’s as good.” Can’t have it both ways; either forum opinions count or they don’t. And to insist that nothing should be changed since someone, somewhere, might complain is, well… you could say that about every patch since launch day. That horse left the barn long ago.

And like I said, if it takes Anet 4+ months to gather basic information, then that really doesn’t reflect very well on them, does it?

Umm… I never said it can’t be the other way around. But what you say is that there is so much wrong with NPE and it has to be fixed now or else you will be sorry! How the fudge do you know that!? Do you have the numbers? Do you know that there has to be a fix and that majority of the playerbase will make Anet disapointed if they do not “fix” this right away? Anet has employes who reeds the forums day and night and they have there eyes on other communites like reddit, Facebook, Twitter and more. I won’t say that they know what they are doing but atleast I beleave that Anet knows what they are doing. So if it takes over 4 months before it is “fixed” maby it means it is a hard nut to crack, or they are working on something different or you could be the minority and there won’t ever be a “fix” to your issues.

I have been playing many different MMO’s for many years now and I have had my opinions and suggestions about stuff… I have never had any of my suggestions come true but I know that they do listen to what I have to say and I know that my opinions are notet but it doesn’t mean they have to walk the path I wan’t them to since my opinions may be less good than some other opinions or something. What I mean is that it is good to have your opinions and giving your feedback is important for the gamedevelopers but don’t expect that your opinions and suggestions are always the best way to go. So to me it sounds like you think your opinions are number 1 and they have to listen to you or they are making a big mistake.

So, no fix in 4+ months.
There as been word about a fix to the Personal Story wich is the one that has most bugs and realy needs a fix.
The rest, does it need a fix?
A big update does not happen in one day, it needs programing, graphics, Bugtesting, more programing, more bugtesting, maby some more programing, maby more graphics, maby some story or atleast some script, and alot of other stuff I don’t know about, and a clearence from the top that it is ok to be released (I think) and finally it also has to wait until release day for this update.

Just adding my voice.

Skillpoint and Vistas hidden behind levels was such a shock to me when a friend joined the game 2 months ago, at least he continued playing but felt very limited and frustrated.

On the other hand, a “not-so-experienced” gamer who joined around the same time did not feel hindered at all. However he DID feel a strong sense of progression?

Well i died today on my level 9 guardian to two or 3 scale monsters. How is that related to NPE? Well, maybe if I had my virtue of resolve (passive regen), first slot skill (sword of justice for example) and most of all my downed skills fully unlocked it would go differently.

But no, game wants to make this easier on me, but taking away my ability to properly defend myself at earlier levels when i screw up with my first 4 skills (cause 5th is still locked at lvl 9).

How is this better then the old system that gave me freedom far earlier and let me battle with with all my downed skills available from the start? You figure it out, i’m writing this off as abomination of a change that should be removed a.s.a.p.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Well i died today on my level 9 guardian to two or 3 scale monsters. How is that related to NPE? Well, maybe if I had my virtue of resolve (passive regen), first slot skill (sword of justice for example) and most of all my downed skills fully unlocked it would go differently.

But no, game wants to make this easier on me, but taking away my ability to properly defend myself at earlier levels when i screw up with my first 4 skills (cause 5th is still locked at lvl 9).

How is this better then the old system that gave me freedom far earlier and let me battle with with all my downed skills available from the start? You figure it out, i’m writing this off as abomination of a change that should be removed a.s.a.p.

You’re right. Anet really didn’t think this through. Right now you should always stick to content that’s at least 4 levels below your current level or else it will be much harder.

Before the NPE I could easily finish the starter map (for example Queensdale) on a new character without much trouble. I would usually fight against mobs 1 or 2 levels higher than me but that wasn’t an issue, it was doable. Then at the end of Queensdale I’d be roughly lvl 13, that’s 2 levels below the recommended level for Kessex Hills but again, no biggie, with proper gear, weapon swap and all my class abilities available I could easily handle it.

Now, after the NPE, I struggle going through the content designed for my own level. I can no longer do Queensdale in 1 sitting because right now I can barely kill enemies my own level, nevermind enemies 2 or 3 levels above me. I’m forced to do bits and pieces of the other starter maps to level up more quickly and then stick to content that is below a few levels my character level until I reach lvl 31. Only after lvl 31 does this problem somewhat go away, but the first 30 levels are a pain in the butt to go through now. lvl 1 to 15 are the worst.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Well i died today on my level 9 guardian to two or 3 scale monsters. How is that related to NPE? Well, maybe if I had my virtue of resolve (passive regen), first slot skill (sword of justice for example) and most of all my downed skills fully unlocked it would go differently.

But no, game wants to make this easier on me, but taking away my ability to properly defend myself at earlier levels when i screw up with my first 4 skills (cause 5th is still locked at lvl 9).

How is this better then the old system that gave me freedom far earlier and let me battle with with all my downed skills available from the start? You figure it out, i’m writing this off as abomination of a change that should be removed a.s.a.p.

You’re right. Anet really didn’t think this through. Right now you should always stick to content that’s at least 4 levels below your current level or else it will be much harder.

Before the NPE I could easily finish the starter map (for example Queensdale) on a new character without much trouble. I would usually fight against mobs 1 or 2 levels higher than me but that wasn’t an issue, it was doable. Then at the end of Queensdale I’d be roughly lvl 13, that’s 2 levels below the recommended level for Kessex Hills but again, no biggie, with proper gear, weapon swap and all my class abilities available I could easily handle it.

Now, after the NPE, I struggle going through the content designed for my own level. I can no longer do Queensdale in 1 sitting because right now I can barely kill enemies my own level, nevermind enemies 2 or 3 levels above me. I’m forced to do bits and pieces of the other starter maps to level up more quickly and then stick to content that is below a few levels my character level until I reach lvl 31. Only after lvl 31 does this problem somewhat go away, but the first 30 levels are a pain in the butt to go through now. lvl 1 to 15 are the worst.

I’ve yet to struggle through any content with an NPE profession of any class. I mean people have been complaining for ages that the game is too easy in the open world. Add a modicum of challenge (and that’s all it is) and suddenly people are up in arms.

I’ve leveled 4 characters after the NPE, including a mesmer and necro and had very few problems with any of them. At times it might have seems a bit more challenging, but only a bit…and I’m not sure that’s a bad thing.

shadow.6174:

Jade Arkadian.9280:

I was a newbie too when the game was on beta i never felt overwhelmed by the game itself.
Compared to other MMO, Guild Wars 2 is pretty simple since you don’t have a massive quantity of skills or abilities .
I would suggest to roll back some changes of the NPE.

Not a beta player here, but I could say the same. At my first days I though GW2 a lot simpler than other MMOs (although I haven’t played many) and I never felt overwhelmed by the game itself too. In fact, I love figuring out things by myself and I hate being locked out just because someone else thinks that I’m not able enough to understand or deal with stuff.

Malkavian.4516:

Honestly, I thought the NPE is decent in trying to introduce new players to the mechanics, but I honestly think that you should give players some credit in letting them figure out the mechanics themselves. If you want to give them a tutorial, we got the very first story instance for them and you could always just make the necessary tweaks to those instances instead.

+1 to this.

Let’s be real here. This NPE was done to make the game more grindy for the Asian release of GW2. What a coincidence of timing to release this NPE huh?

Vayne.8563:

I do believe (as in this is my belief), that most players log into the game, kill some stuff, farm some stuff and log off, without ever visiting the forums or ever being aware of the deeper issues.

That doesn’t mean that’s said on the forums has not value. But it doesn’t mean that what’s said on the forums has absolute value either.

Just for the numbers .. our german CM postet a while ago that only 1% of the player
post at the forums, and 7% read them.

So really 1% only post .. and i think it don’t really need much proof to say that people
go to the forums either if they have problems with the game like bugs, or simply that
they dislike parts of it .. or they are really dedicated to the game and those are more
often the so called “hardcore” gamers.

Beldin.5498:

Vayne.8563:

I do believe (as in this is my belief), that most players log into the game, kill some stuff, farm some stuff and log off, without ever visiting the forums or ever being aware of the deeper issues.

That doesn’t mean that’s said on the forums has not value. But it doesn’t mean that what’s said on the forums has absolute value either.

Just for the numbers .. our german CM postet a while ago that only 1% of the player
post at the forums, and 7% read them.

So really 1% only post .. and i think it don’t really need much proof to say that people
go to the forums either if they have problems with the game like bugs, or simply that
they dislike parts of it .. or they are really dedicated to the game and those are more
often the so called “hardcore” gamers.

I hear this argument all the time. So tired of it. It’s BS!
SWTOR forum had lots of bad talk. But was the the vocal minority? Because that game went F2P within a year after release…
What about Warhammer? That game shut down. Guess that was also the vocal minority on the forum there giving feedback that wasn’t praise.
What about Rift, or Darkfall, etc?

I guess the developers had a reason to ignore that “vocal minority”,,,, and we see that results of it…

Knighthonor.4061:

Beldin.5498:

Vayne.8563:

I do believe (as in this is my belief), that most players log into the game, kill some stuff, farm some stuff and log off, without ever visiting the forums or ever being aware of the deeper issues.

That doesn’t mean that’s said on the forums has not value. But it doesn’t mean that what’s said on the forums has absolute value either.

Just for the numbers .. our german CM postet a while ago that only 1% of the player
post at the forums, and 7% read them.

So really 1% only post .. and i think it don’t really need much proof to say that people
go to the forums either if they have problems with the game like bugs, or simply that
they dislike parts of it .. or they are really dedicated to the game and those are more
often the so called “hardcore” gamers.

I hear this argument all the time. So tired of it. It’s BS!
SWTOR forum had lots of bad talk. But was the the vocal minority? Because that game went F2P within a year after release…
What about Warhammer? That game shut down. Guess that was also the vocal minority on the forum there giving feedback that wasn’t praise.
What about Rift, or Darkfall, etc?

I guess the developers had a reason to ignore that “vocal minority”,,,, and we see that results of it…

He who is silent, when he ought to have spoken and was able to, is taken to agree.

If a player is sad or happy about anything and doesn’t share it on these forums, then the company is sure to assume all is well and base their changes in models and sale numbers.

However people do express themselves, as few as your numbers may suggest. If only 1% of the people go to vote for anything or anyone, all the remaining 99% can not place blame on the choice: they chose to stay silent.

If the company chooses to ignore the player input (as little as it may actually be) then people may very well stop playing; the ones that speak and those who stay silent. Nobody here pays a subscription nor are we forced to play this. If we stay and complain it is because we see reasons still to play. Reasons that are already there or can be made to be.

If we see that our voices are ignored then, well… Life goes on. And so do we.

Edit: grammar correction.

Knighthonor.4061:

Beldin.5498:

Vayne.8563:

I do believe (as in this is my belief), that most players log into the game, kill some stuff, farm some stuff and log off, without ever visiting the forums or ever being aware of the deeper issues.

That doesn’t mean that’s said on the forums has not value. But it doesn’t mean that what’s said on the forums has absolute value either.

Just for the numbers .. our german CM postet a while ago that only 1% of the player
post at the forums, and 7% read them.

So really 1% only post .. and i think it don’t really need much proof to say that people
go to the forums either if they have problems with the game like bugs, or simply that
they dislike parts of it .. or they are really dedicated to the game and those are more
often the so called “hardcore” gamers.

I hear this argument all the time. So tired of it. It’s BS!
SWTOR forum had lots of bad talk. But was the the vocal minority? Because that game went F2P within a year after release…
What about Warhammer? That game shut down. Guess that was also the vocal minority on the forum there giving feedback that wasn’t praise.
What about Rift, or Darkfall, etc?

I guess the developers had a reason to ignore that “vocal minority”,,,, and we see that results of it…

Its not an “argument” but numbers postet of our CM. However i was wrong from
memory with the one number, so its 8,5% that are ready the forums, but still just
1% that are posting.

Here is the link if you don’t believe it :
https://forum-de.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Mehr-Transparenz-beim-Runden-Tisch/first#post416077

Also for my taste ANet has already listend too much to that vocal minority and
things like ascended gear, grind for ambrite weapons and luminescent armor and
the worst of all : the new trait system .. are results coming from that.

Oh .. and of course Tequatl revamp was also a big failure for many before the megaserver.

Knighthonor.4061:

Beldin.5498:

Vayne.8563:

I do believe (as in this is my belief), that most players log into the game, kill some stuff, farm some stuff and log off, without ever visiting the forums or ever being aware of the deeper issues.

That doesn’t mean that’s said on the forums has not value. But it doesn’t mean that what’s said on the forums has absolute value either.

Just for the numbers .. our german CM postet a while ago that only 1% of the player
post at the forums, and 7% read them.

So really 1% only post .. and i think it don’t really need much proof to say that people
go to the forums either if they have problems with the game like bugs, or simply that
they dislike parts of it .. or they are really dedicated to the game and those are more
often the so called “hardcore” gamers.

I hear this argument all the time. So tired of it. It’s BS!
SWTOR forum had lots of bad talk. But was the the vocal minority? Because that game went F2P within a year after release…
What about Warhammer? That game shut down. Guess that was also the vocal minority on the forum there giving feedback that wasn’t praise.
What about Rift, or Darkfall, etc?

I guess the developers had a reason to ignore that “vocal minority”,,,, and we see that results of it…

This is terrible logic. Every MMO that fails or succeeds has crappy negative forums. They’re all filled with complaints, unless they sensor their forums. It’s relatively normal.

Not every MMO failed, though, even the ones with a lot of negative comments. So you can’t say those games failed because they didn’t listen.

In fact, there may well be some games that failed because they did listen.

There doesn’t, in fact, seem to be any correlation between the quality of a game and what is posted on its forums.

Vayne.8563:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Well i died today on my level 9 guardian to two or 3 scale monsters. How is that related to NPE? Well, maybe if I had my virtue of resolve (passive regen), first slot skill (sword of justice for example) and most of all my downed skills fully unlocked it would go differently.

But no, game wants to make this easier on me, but taking away my ability to properly defend myself at earlier levels when i screw up with my first 4 skills (cause 5th is still locked at lvl 9).

How is this better then the old system that gave me freedom far earlier and let me battle with with all my downed skills available from the start? You figure it out, i’m writing this off as abomination of a change that should be removed a.s.a.p.

You’re right. Anet really didn’t think this through. Right now you should always stick to content that’s at least 4 levels below your current level or else it will be much harder.

Before the NPE I could easily finish the starter map (for example Queensdale) on a new character without much trouble. I would usually fight against mobs 1 or 2 levels higher than me but that wasn’t an issue, it was doable. Then at the end of Queensdale I’d be roughly lvl 13, that’s 2 levels below the recommended level for Kessex Hills but again, no biggie, with proper gear, weapon swap and all my class abilities available I could easily handle it.

Now, after the NPE, I struggle going through the content designed for my own level. I can no longer do Queensdale in 1 sitting because right now I can barely kill enemies my own level, nevermind enemies 2 or 3 levels above me. I’m forced to do bits and pieces of the other starter maps to level up more quickly and then stick to content that is below a few levels my character level until I reach lvl 31. Only after lvl 31 does this problem somewhat go away, but the first 30 levels are a pain in the butt to go through now. lvl 1 to 15 are the worst.

I’ve yet to struggle through any content with an NPE profession of any class. I mean people have been complaining for ages that the game is too easy in the open world. Add a modicum of challenge (and that’s all it is) and suddenly people are up in arms.

I’ve leveled 4 characters after the NPE, including a mesmer and necro and had very few problems with any of them. At times it might have seems a bit more challenging, but only a bit…and I’m not sure that’s a bad thing.

I do dungeon/factals speedruns on a daily basis and I know Arah like the back of my hand. I’m more than familiar with the mechanics of this game and the most difficult PvE content of this game. I’m not a newbie nor am I incompetent by any means.

I agree that GW2 is too easy. But does making the early game content frustratingly limited by removing 90% of all the mechanics from the early game fix that?

I’m all for more difficult content or increasing the difficulty of the game, but not in the (unintentional?) way Anet chose with the NPE. Taking away previously available mechanics and redistributing stat gains to arbitrary and confusing “thresholds” is not challenging or fun in way, it’s simply frustrating and confusing both new and veteran players.

What’s next? Taking away our number 6 heal skill until you reach a certain level? How about removing the dodging mechanic ’til you reach a certain level? Would you support that? Would that make the game more challenging in a fun way?

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Vayne.8563:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Well i died today on my level 9 guardian to two or 3 scale monsters. How is that related to NPE? Well, maybe if I had my virtue of resolve (passive regen), first slot skill (sword of justice for example) and most of all my downed skills fully unlocked it would go differently.

But no, game wants to make this easier on me, but taking away my ability to properly defend myself at earlier levels when i screw up with my first 4 skills (cause 5th is still locked at lvl 9).

How is this better then the old system that gave me freedom far earlier and let me battle with with all my downed skills available from the start? You figure it out, i’m writing this off as abomination of a change that should be removed a.s.a.p.

You’re right. Anet really didn’t think this through. Right now you should always stick to content that’s at least 4 levels below your current level or else it will be much harder.

Before the NPE I could easily finish the starter map (for example Queensdale) on a new character without much trouble. I would usually fight against mobs 1 or 2 levels higher than me but that wasn’t an issue, it was doable. Then at the end of Queensdale I’d be roughly lvl 13, that’s 2 levels below the recommended level for Kessex Hills but again, no biggie, with proper gear, weapon swap and all my class abilities available I could easily handle it.

Now, after the NPE, I struggle going through the content designed for my own level. I can no longer do Queensdale in 1 sitting because right now I can barely kill enemies my own level, nevermind enemies 2 or 3 levels above me. I’m forced to do bits and pieces of the other starter maps to level up more quickly and then stick to content that is below a few levels my character level until I reach lvl 31. Only after lvl 31 does this problem somewhat go away, but the first 30 levels are a pain in the butt to go through now. lvl 1 to 15 are the worst.

I’ve yet to struggle through any content with an NPE profession of any class. I mean people have been complaining for ages that the game is too easy in the open world. Add a modicum of challenge (and that’s all it is) and suddenly people are up in arms.

I’ve leveled 4 characters after the NPE, including a mesmer and necro and had very few problems with any of them. At times it might have seems a bit more challenging, but only a bit…and I’m not sure that’s a bad thing.

I do dungeon/factals speedruns on a daily basis and I know Arah like the back of my hand. I’m more than familiar with the mechanics of this game and the most difficult PvE content of this game. I’m not a newbie nor am I incompetent by any means.

I agree that GW2 is too easy. But does making the early game content frustratingly limited by removing 90% of all the mechanics from the early game fix that?

I’m all for more difficult content or increasing the difficulty of the game, but not in the (unintentional?) way Anet chose with the NPE. Taking away previously available mechanics and redistributing stat gains to arbitrary and confusing “thresholds” is not challenging or fun in way, it’s simply frustrating and kittening off both new and veteran players.

What’s next? Taking away our number 6 heal skill until you reach a certain level? How about removing the dodging mechanikittenil you reach a certain level? Would you support that? Would that make the game more challenging in a fun way?

You’re making a mountain out of a molehill. Considering I get to level 15 in less than an hour and a half, this is just a non-issue. It’s easy and fast to get to level 15 when most of the locked stuff is unlocked.

On top of that, we now get level up scrolls just for logging in, as well as PvP.

Is it a minor inconvenience for many people? I’m sure it is.

But since 1.5 hours is only a tiny percentage of a character’s lifespan, it’s hard to really imagine it being that big a deal. It’s fast, you get through it, if it helps some new people so be it.

Vayne.8563:

if it helps some new people so be it.

Does it though? Does it really help new players? If it even confuses veteran players like me and make it harder for us then how the heck is this supposed to help new players?

I don’t know many new players, but I know one, and I know he is super confused with the NPE. He just couldn’t understand how/why he had so much trouble defeating a lvl 9 bandit as a level 9 guardian. He started blaming himself. I told him it wasn’t his fault and I told him about the “thresholds” and that at lvl 9 you’re really just lvl 4. Then he was even more confused.

I would really like to hear input from other new players who started playing after the NPE. I don’t think the NPE achieved what Anet hoped it would achieve.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Vayne.8563:

if it helps some new people so be it.

Does it though? Does it really help new players? If it even confuses veteran players like me and make it harder for us then how the heck is this supposed to help new players?

I don’t know many new players, but I know one, and I know he is super confused with the NPE. He just couldn’t understand how/why he had so much trouble defeating a lvl 9 bandit as a level 9 guardian. He started blaming himself. I told him it wasn’t his fault and I told him about the “thresholds” and that at lvl 9 you’re really just lvl 4. Then he was even more confused.

I would really like to hear input from other new players who started playing after the NPE. I don’t think the NPE achieved what Anet hoped it would achieve.

Well I know some people that tried the game before the NPE, tried it after, and found it much easier to figure out the second time. But I also know some people that found it confusing.

The thing was, originally, there was no real guidance of where to go and what to do. The NPE also includes that nifty arrow, and that helps lots of people. Some people really do want to just follow an arrow around it seems.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

I don’t know many new players, but I know one, and I know he is super confused with the NPE. He just couldn’t understand how/why he had so much trouble defeating a lvl 9 bandit as a level 9 guardian. He started blaming himself. I told him it wasn’t his fault and I told him about the “thresholds” and that at lvl 9 you’re really just lvl 4. Then he was even more confused.

Ehmm .. if it is that special bandit from that one skill challenge .. that one was always
very hard .. and even with level 20 chars before all those changes i had to try it
sometimes 5-6 times to beat him.

Vayne.8563:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Does it though? Does it really help new players? If it even confuses veteran players like me and make it harder for us then how the heck is this supposed to help new players?

I don’t know many new players, but I know one, and I know he is super confused with the NPE. He just couldn’t understand how/why he had so much trouble defeating a lvl 9 bandit as a level 9 guardian. He started blaming himself. I told him it wasn’t his fault and I told him about the “thresholds” and that at lvl 9 you’re really just lvl 4. Then he was even more confused.

I would really like to hear input from other new players who started playing after the NPE. I don’t think the NPE achieved what Anet hoped it would achieve.

Well I know some people that tried the game before the NPE, tried it after, and found it much easier to figure out the second time. But I also know some people that found it confusing.

The thing was, originally, there was no real guidance of where to go and what to do. The NPE also includes that nifty arrow, and that helps lots of people. Some people really do want to just follow an arrow around it seems.

No real guidance? Are you kidding me?

So scouts and hints and mail notifications about new content you unlocked isn’t real guidance? LOL okay….

I’m by no means an MMO expert (I only really played 2 MMOs, WoW and GW2) yet I thought vanilla GW2 already had too much hand-holding at the start of the game. It most certainly didn’t need even more hand-holding (though the new compass is nice, I’ll give you that).

Besides, you forget to address my biggest complaint, the arbitrary “stat thresholds” and needlessly hiding class mechanics until I reach a certain level. How is this supposed to help anyone?

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Vayne.8563:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Does it though? Does it really help new players? If it even confuses veteran players like me and make it harder for us then how the heck is this supposed to help new players?

I don’t know many new players, but I know one, and I know he is super confused with the NPE. He just couldn’t understand how/why he had so much trouble defeating a lvl 9 bandit as a level 9 guardian. He started blaming himself. I told him it wasn’t his fault and I told him about the “thresholds” and that at lvl 9 you’re really just lvl 4. Then he was even more confused.

I would really like to hear input from other new players who started playing after the NPE. I don’t think the NPE achieved what Anet hoped it would achieve.

Well I know some people that tried the game before the NPE, tried it after, and found it much easier to figure out the second time. But I also know some people that found it confusing.

The thing was, originally, there was no real guidance of where to go and what to do. The NPE also includes that nifty arrow, and that helps lots of people. Some people really do want to just follow an arrow around it seems.

No real guidance? Are you kidding me?

So scouts and hints and mail notifications about new content you unlocked isn’t real guidance? LOL okay….

I’m by no means an MMO expert (I only really played 2 MMOs, WoW and GW2) yet I thought vanilla GW2 already had too much hand-holding at the start of the game. It most certainly didn’t need even more hand-holding (though the new compass is nice, I’ll give you that).

Besides, you forget to address my biggest complaint, the arbitrary “stat thresholds” and needlessly hiding class mechanics until I reach a certain level. How is this supposed to help anyone?

Yes I would like an answer to this

Vayne.8563:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Vayne.8563:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Well i died today on my level 9 guardian to two or 3 scale monsters. How is that related to NPE? Well, maybe if I had my virtue of resolve (passive regen), first slot skill (sword of justice for example) and most of all my downed skills fully unlocked it would go differently.

But no, game wants to make this easier on me, but taking away my ability to properly defend myself at earlier levels when i screw up with my first 4 skills (cause 5th is still locked at lvl 9).

How is this better then the old system that gave me freedom far earlier and let me battle with with all my downed skills available from the start? You figure it out, i’m writing this off as abomination of a change that should be removed a.s.a.p.

You’re right. Anet really didn’t think this through. Right now you should always stick to content that’s at least 4 levels below your current level or else it will be much harder.

Before the NPE I could easily finish the starter map (for example Queensdale) on a new character without much trouble. I would usually fight against mobs 1 or 2 levels higher than me but that wasn’t an issue, it was doable. Then at the end of Queensdale I’d be roughly lvl 13, that’s 2 levels below the recommended level for Kessex Hills but again, no biggie, with proper gear, weapon swap and all my class abilities available I could easily handle it.

Now, after the NPE, I struggle going through the content designed for my own level. I can no longer do Queensdale in 1 sitting because right now I can barely kill enemies my own level, nevermind enemies 2 or 3 levels above me. I’m forced to do bits and pieces of the other starter maps to level up more quickly and then stick to content that is below a few levels my character level until I reach lvl 31. Only after lvl 31 does this problem somewhat go away, but the first 30 levels are a pain in the butt to go through now. lvl 1 to 15 are the worst.

I’ve yet to struggle through any content with an NPE profession of any class. I mean people have been complaining for ages that the game is too easy in the open world. Add a modicum of challenge (and that’s all it is) and suddenly people are up in arms.

I’ve leveled 4 characters after the NPE, including a mesmer and necro and had very few problems with any of them. At times it might have seems a bit more challenging, but only a bit…and I’m not sure that’s a bad thing.

I do dungeon/factals speedruns on a daily basis and I know Arah like the back of my hand. I’m more than familiar with the mechanics of this game and the most difficult PvE content of this game. I’m not a newbie nor am I incompetent by any means.

I agree that GW2 is too easy. But does making the early game content frustratingly limited by removing 90% of all the mechanics from the early game fix that?

I’m all for more difficult content or increasing the difficulty of the game, but not in the (unintentional?) way Anet chose with the NPE. Taking away previously available mechanics and redistributing stat gains to arbitrary and confusing “thresholds” is not challenging or fun in way, it’s simply frustrating and kittening off both new and veteran players.

What’s next? Taking away our number 6 heal skill until you reach a certain level? How about removing the dodging mechanikittenil you reach a certain level? Would you support that? Would that make the game more challenging in a fun way?

You’re making a mountain out of a molehill. Considering I get to level 15 in less than an hour and a half, this is just a non-issue. It’s easy and fast to get to level 15 when most of the locked stuff is unlocked.

On top of that, we now get level up scrolls just for logging in, as well as PvP.

Is it a minor inconvenience for many people? I’m sure it is.

But since 1.5 hours is only a tiny percentage of a character’s lifespan, it’s hard to really imagine it being that big a deal. It’s fast, you get through it, if it helps some new people so be it.

Hmm, an hour and a half reading a book is somewhere between 60 and 100 pages for me. If you were reading a book and the first 100 pages, several chapters, were not enjoyable would you honestly keep reading?

The idea of the NPE and the traits isn’t bad, but how it’s handled is bad.

• Having only 1 skill to start with and only hearts when the game begins? Why are the vistas and point of interest even locked out? They aren’t that hard or confusing. Showing more then 1 item on a map shows that there is more to do then grinding out boring quests with only 1 skill. Shouldn’t be hard (or confusing) to let the player start with 3 skills and at least hearts AND vistas (and/or point of interest)

• having to ‘unlock’ downed mode? really? ‘Unlocking’ this is the completely wrong approach for something like this. A much better thing would be to force the player into downed state at a certain point inside the tutorial instance. With helpful message like “When you run out of HP you’ll find yourself in downed state. This state gives you a chance to get back up your feet. The first attack is always available and can be used to attack the enemy. If the enemy dies then you are saved.” with an arrow pointing to the first downed state attack. After a few seconds the game could point to the 4th skill with a small helpfull message.

• Traits: I don’t mind going around unlocking stuff, but unlocking traits is just plain annoying, boring and a big grindfest. Having to do zone completion for every zone in the world? Events that bug out, group events that you have to solo because nobody cares about them? Or doing the personal story for every character? I got tired of the personal story after my 6th (or so) character. And even worse: what you unlock doesn’t have ANYTHING to do with the trait you unlock.
  There is no variety in how you unlock a trait.

How about unlocking a trait to reduce falling damage by getting massive falling damage 15times total? And a more diverse amount of stuff to do. For example: a race/class specific npc that gives you a quest like “go find the place where the nightmares formed a tower but don’t use waypoints at all (this also means death = start over)”. If the player reached the goal (in this case kessix hill) the quest a trait could be earned.

• Unlocking traits at lvl30 is too long of a wait. You want to introduce this much earlier so players can have a variety of stuff to do as soon as possible. Besides unlocking it at lvl15 and getting 1 trait points each 5 levels would make much more sense then 1 every so often and after a while 2 because you ran out of levels.

Well, the thing is.. the game should be an enjoyable experience since very beginning, I mean since the start of leveling process. With NPE the leveling process isn’t a free playing and exploring time, it became a chore that you must to do as fast you can. Why that?

I took 2 weeks to reach my first lvl 80 (casual here) and I didn’t regret or felt ashamed because I enjoyed exploring maps and doing stuffs during that time. Also, why rushing to lvl cap? What about upscaling? I admit I had a hard time playing a lvl 80 map with a lvl 60 char but I could DO it, upscaling helped me someway to explore high level contents and then it made me eager to keep on.

Also, why having a huge and boring “tutorial” through 80 levels? The very majority here aren’t 4 years old child, so hardly so slow on learning stuff. Why teaching basic stuff at lvl 80 when it could be taught at the very first minutes of play time? I’m all up for more info and teaching but the thing is, leave ppl learn on their own pace. Supposing they aren’t ready to learn certain thing doesn’t work at all.

These are the main aspects where NPE failed, all other details (locked items, hidden things, stats threshold, traits, whatever…) are just consequences or results of these two ideas or concepts.

The real thread to NPE complaints here — including the trait changes — might not be so much to do with the changes as to do with what had to be taken away in order to make them.

People might have found it a little weird, but we’d see far fewer complaints about having to dance for cows if that had been present at launch (in fact, there’s a renown heart in Diessa Plateau — an area that avoided many of the NPE changes — where you have to emote for cows).

A worrying thing to note here is that Wildstar’s NPE is very similar to what we have — except that it was in before launch and elements such as avoiding the use of bundles etc. before reaching a certain level of content were far better hidden than they are in GW2. Wildstar didn’t do too well with its new-player retention.

There’s also another point for my NPE nitpick pile:

• Using a bucket of water to extinguish fires is a recurring mechanic in events, yet it works differently in Shaemoor Fields to how it works in Applenook Hamlet. I really don’t see how inconsistencies like this can help ease players into the game. That said, I didn’t figure out that you could extinguish fires the first few times I did the event in Shaemoor Fields.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Vayne.8563:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Does it though? Does it really help new players? If it even confuses veteran players like me and make it harder for us then how the heck is this supposed to help new players?

I don’t know many new players, but I know one, and I know he is super confused with the NPE. He just couldn’t understand how/why he had so much trouble defeating a lvl 9 bandit as a level 9 guardian. He started blaming himself. I told him it wasn’t his fault and I told him about the “thresholds” and that at lvl 9 you’re really just lvl 4. Then he was even more confused.

I would really like to hear input from other new players who started playing after the NPE. I don’t think the NPE achieved what Anet hoped it would achieve.

Well I know some people that tried the game before the NPE, tried it after, and found it much easier to figure out the second time. But I also know some people that found it confusing.

The thing was, originally, there was no real guidance of where to go and what to do. The NPE also includes that nifty arrow, and that helps lots of people. Some people really do want to just follow an arrow around it seems.

No real guidance? Are you kidding me?

So scouts and hints and mail notifications about new content you unlocked isn’t real guidance? LOL okay….

I’m by no means an MMO expert (I only really played 2 MMOs, WoW and GW2) yet I thought vanilla GW2 already had too much hand-holding at the start of the game. It most certainly didn’t need even more hand-holding (though the new compass is nice, I’ll give you that).

Besides, you forget to address my biggest complaint, the arbitrary “stat thresholds” and needlessly hiding class mechanics until I reach a certain level. How is this supposed to help anyone?

I don’t notice the stat thresholds, I do fine either way, so I’ll take your word for it that its’ a problem. It wasn’t a problem for me on the four professions I’ve leveled since the NPE.

That leaves the hand hold comments. You know, if you took half a minute to read the players helping players forums, or the reddit forums, you’d have seen a whole bunch of posts by people who were lost. Nevermind scouts and whatnot. Really lost.

In WoW and almost every other MMO you have breadcrumb quests that take you right to an NPC with a mark over their head, telling you to do a quest what appears as an star on your map. It’s breadcrumb all the way through. You don’t just wander around.

Hearts weren’t even supposed to be in this game, and they were added because people couldn’t figure out what to do. Really. There was a test player running by a burning field and the dev nearby said why didn’t you go and help out and the player said, because I didn’t have a quest to do it.

You act like this sort of organic dynamic event system is a thing that everyone can easily grasp. It’s not and never has been. Without that arrow, people floundered…and not just a few people. People who came from other MMOs specifically didn’t get it…and some still don’t.

Anyone who read the players helping players forum can tell you there were always posts about people not understanding where to go or what to do to level.

You had the other side too, people posting about following the story line and then being underleveled and not realizing the personal story wasn’t the only or main quest line, because the main core of the game was supposed to be DEs.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Vayne.8563:

if it helps some new people so be it.

Does it though? Does it really help new players? If it even confuses veteran players like me and make it harder for us then how the heck is this supposed to help new players?

I don’t know many new players, but I know one, and I know he is super confused with the NPE. He just couldn’t understand how/why he had so much trouble defeating a lvl 9 bandit as a level 9 guardian. He started blaming himself. I told him it wasn’t his fault and I told him about the “thresholds” and that at lvl 9 you’re really just lvl 4. Then he was even more confused.

I would really like to hear input from other new players who started playing after the NPE. I don’t think the NPE achieved what Anet hoped it would achieve.

I was just thinking on this. New players can not relate to the changes, as they are new players.

They have no clear idea of how seriously nerfed their gaming experience is. If they did, they would most likely quit in despair.

On the other hand, “vets” know exactly what has been lost in the whole leveling process. Our input here seems to revolve around how to avoid NPE and traits changes, by using our accumulated wealth and privileges. (Which kind of indicates to me that experienced players actually don’t really like the changes).

So, help every new player you find. They really need it.

Bellizare.5816:

I was just thinking on this. New players can not relate to the changes, as they are new players.

They have no clear idea of how seriously nerfed their gaming experience is. If they did, they would most likely quit in despair.

On the other hand, “vets” know exactly what has been lost in the whole leveling process. Our input here seems to revolve around how to avoid NPE and traits changes, by using our accumulated wealth and privileges. (Which kind of indicates to me that experienced players actually don’t really like the changes).

So, help every new player you find. They really need it.

There are genuine flaws with the NPE and the trait changes, but people are overstating things.

• The level 1 – 20 part of the levelling up process was always intended to be used to learn the game.
• The levelling experience in this game might be pretty cool, but how many characters do you expect to level fully while it’s still fresh, exactly? People were resorting to tomes and edge to level long before the NPE was introduced.
• How many people do you really think want to avoid the NPE specifically for any reason other than the bad press it’s gotten?
• It’s been said before, but a level 20 character under the NPE isn’t missing much that they had before the NPE, and gets there far, far faster than before.

As far as I can tell, the whole NPE was rushed out. Whether because of poor planning, panicky publishers, or whatever else, it’s not something that should have happened, but ultimately, it is what it is. For now, I believe that we should be prepared to give ANet the benefit of the doubt, and assume that the teething issues will be ironed out (as long as people remember to point them out). Among other things:

• Level 9 bandits kicking people’s backsides. Sounds like they weren’t rebalanced to take the new stats into account for some reason.
• People getting noticeably and significantly weaker as they level in Edge: that sounds to me like the level scaling algorithm could be using the old stats as a basis, rather than the new ones. That said, gaining a level in WvW always meant getting weaker.
• Releasing episodes of the personal story out of order: again, I’m going on the assumption that all of this was pushed out of the door in a hurry, and voice actors can’t drop everything and be available at a weeks’ notice.

Bellizare.5816:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Vayne.8563:

if it helps some new people so be it.

Does it though? Does it really help new players? If it even confuses veteran players like me and make it harder for us then how the heck is this supposed to help new players?

I don’t know many new players, but I know one, and I know he is super confused with the NPE. He just couldn’t understand how/why he had so much trouble defeating a lvl 9 bandit as a level 9 guardian. He started blaming himself. I told him it wasn’t his fault and I told him about the “thresholds” and that at lvl 9 you’re really just lvl 4. Then he was even more confused.

I would really like to hear input from other new players who started playing after the NPE. I don’t think the NPE achieved what Anet hoped it would achieve.

I was just thinking on this. New players can not relate to the changes, as they are new players.

They have no clear idea of how seriously nerfed their gaming experience is. If they did, they would most likely quit in despair.

On the other hand, “vets” know exactly what has been lost in the whole leveling process. Our input here seems to revolve around how to avoid NPE and traits changes, by using our accumulated wealth and privileges. (Which kind of indicates to me that experienced players actually don’t really like the changes).

So, help every new player you find. They really need it.

I’ve been playing for about a month now, so like Bellizare says, this is the only GW2 I’ve ever seen.

For what it’s worth, NPE per se wasn’t that big a deal to me. The first few levels were annoyingly limited (oh, there are things called skill challenges and vistas? Better retrace my steps and do the ones I didn’t know existed when I was near them…). But by the mid to high teens enough of a character is unlocked that it starts to seem like a reasonable game. And for alts, at least those initial annoyingly limited levels pass very quickly, and one can see and do the skill points and vistas on those characters from the start.

The difficulty does feel jumpy sometimes with the concentrated stat increases (I gather it used to be +a little bit every level, instead of the current +a lot every six levels?). It’s no coincidence that level 9 keeps coming up, since there’s a stat increase at level 10 and characters thus may be a bit weaker than they should be at 9. I had the same problem on my mesmer and elementalist, some tough times at 9, come back a level or two later and smoke those same mobs that had been stomping me. But nothing wrong with having a challenge; at worst in cases like that you just come back a bit later.

I’ve read something about the old method of unlocking weapon skills on a per-weapon basis by (shockingly) actually using the weapon. That sounds pretty neat to me; more interesting than the current system. Now by the time I actually have access to multiple weapon choices, I just look over the weapon section of my skills panel, work out which one(s) suit me best, and move on from there. Not having weapon choices is of course another facet of the “very early levels are annoyingly limited” complaint.

On the other hand the trait system is just horrible; a potentially interesting idea with just about the worst possible implementation. Might not be game-breaking, but definitely alt-killing. I consider my alts to have a de facto level cap around 30 – I might make an exception for my guardian since I’m finding I like that class a lot, but the rest will languish around 30ish until/unless Anet fixes the trait system. Which from what I’ve seen in the huge trait thread seems unlikely after this much time.

But April 2014 trait revamp != Sept. 2014 NPE change, so that’s not particularly relevant here.