Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

On your second character you will see them. Same with skill points.

Stop using second character as argument. As I said before it’s a New Players Experience, first character, first moments in the game, first impression of the whole. When someone gets to the point of making a second char they aren’t a new player anymore. Let’s focus on how it looks for the New, how it looks at the very first time. Also remember, those who can be new to GW2 may not be new to games or MMOs in general, also they can have a very reasonable IQ :P

ckotoc.5421:

Just lvl up through eotm.Its way better atm.

Xdmatt.3958:

That’s why EOTM experience pinata train is always running. Choo choo. Nobody wants to level the usual way anymore.

That’s the point, veterans shouldn’t need to use workarounds to keep playing just because a badly implemented “tutorial” for new players. For sure it’s easy to use tomes and stuff to skip it.. but where is the fun on that? It should be about fun, not a boring and needed chore.

Hamfast.8719:

I’m still waiting for them to decide that there is no reason why they can’t turn all my Tonics back into Town Clothes exactly like before. They can keep Outfits. But why do all my old Town Clothes need to be sitting in my Bank gathering dust in Tonic form? Almost NONE of them transitioned into Outfits, so what’s the deal? Why can’t I have my old non-combat clothing back? Not only would we forgive ANet, but I’m sure they would be praised by many. And I personally would start using the Gem Store again.

I also fail to understand why Town Clothes couldn’t be made into outfits.. just because town clothes weren’t supposed to have weapons skill available? Well, don’t they have it now? I still don’t see the reason for making it like tonics, it’s just occupying space in inventory/bank when they could easily fit the outfits part in the wardrobe system.

Anyway, let’s not change the subject. Wardrobe stuff wasn’t part of NPE and then not the subject of this thread.

One more thing to quote..

Mirta.5029:

Remember it’s a human being playing the game, not a 3 year old child.

Just let’s put it like a “smart and experienced” human being… xD

Another point… if NPE was good and achieved its objective… why then does threads like these keep poping up frequently?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Skill-challenges-unable-to-activate/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Missing-pets-panel/

It seems like the tutorial isn’t teaching things as it should huh? Not to mention the most stupid thing ever that’s taking off the most basic mechanic of a class and putting it behind a level lock…

While I posted this technically somewhere else as well:

“To be honest. All these unlocks are really frustrating. I understand that you don’t want new players to get overwhelmed… but why force it down the throat of those who don’t need the handholding. Hell I was more confused at the game locking stuff than I ever was with the game ever before. Thinking it was broken at times before I realised, oh yeah… nonsensical unlocks. I think I even send a bug report once because of it. I know, that was pretty silly. But still.

I don’t understand why there isn’t a pop up warning window rather than taking away QoL stuff."

While it might sound a little heated, I do wonder about some changes that make it a little less frustrating to play on a new character and then the next by having some of the freedom back. Especially things regarding TP, PvP, WvW unlocks which really should be account bound unlocks. (Which is possible I think, or should be)

It’s really strange to start a new character while you have 8 others who are lvl 80 and then being artificially held back by the NPE system, because it’s there for new players. I already know how to play many of the 2 year old features by now, and it has become really really tedious to play a new character for me for the first 30 or so levels.

Especially in the light with the expansion coming out which possibly gives us a new profession to play through the levels with, it would be really something to make it more enjoyable to play without the use of certain.. cheat scrolls. I know, you can skip the first 20 levels and have no problem at all, sure. But that is really just a band-aid. I really liked the old system I felt free and it felt like I was progressing my character with every move I made at the start. It made me feel free. Now it’s literally turned into, spam events and hearts until you zzzzzzzzz AH level 10! I can do something fun… and then again zzzzzz You are bound to level again to do the hearts explore etc.

To me, it turned the game completely staccato, like being on a train which stops at every inconvenient moment. In some cases, where NPCs say they will contact you later it does make that more believable, sure, I actually like that… for the first 2-5 levels maybe, then I’m back to forcing myself through an area again just to continue the story.

While not completely losing the structure of the chapters, it could be an idea to not completely lock you out of the next story bit, but instead unlock it a level or 5 before the the level recommendation. Maybe silently, within the story journal, as it might confuse people. Or make it needed to actively “skip waiting” for it to unlock, which could be in the form of a button the way you now start the living world story bits.

It just would give some of the choice back to the players who don’t like to be held back by force. Just some recommendations, really, though I really doubt anything would come of it.

(Personally the worst is that levels didn’t matter and now they do, because you’re held back on purpose, it’s old school, a step back. It’s not natural progression anymore. Something they so wildly advertised. It’s something they got prizes for I’m pretty sure. They threw it out for handholding. Much sad)

I’ve been thinking of my own NPE way back on the day of the first beta session. It was the, best, day, of my life for a long long long time in Mmorpg gaming.

I remember the first time I got that shiny chest floating on the right-side of my screen. I was probably level 7. At 3 am me and around 45 other players cooperated and beat that champion troll in Queensdale. The fight was difficult. Many of us died, and we rezzed each other. There was one character named “I Am Your Grandpa”. When he died we all rushed to rez grandpa. lol lol. It was a blast when we finally killed the troll. Everyone stood around cheering for a min. Grandpa even thanked my character by name for rezzing him. I felt like we were at the start of a great community about to venture together into a future of shining chests after killing a huge, dangerous champion. I knew in my gut there would be a lot more champion fights. I couldn’t wait to do it more as the beta closed. Then I spent the next weeks going in a buzz, waiting for the next beta.

In each beta people cried when timer came up and it was time to log off. Dev came on once to announce we’d get an extra hour, and many cheered on the map channel for that announcement.

This, was our NPE. Those of us who were lucky to start in beta.

This, was ANet’s original vision. That tough troll champion fight where players were drawn together in a battle of life and death. Where we were rewarded by a floating chest that we could open after our cheers. Even if we were still busy rezzing grandpa.

lol. What a memorable night that was. Now I feel sad for the new players. Their NPE is no longer that caliber. They don’t have many champion fights in their newbie zone anymore. They have level 80 players in ascended gear killing dynamic event vet mobs in 2 seconds, and their puny damage ends with no credit. (I know this for a fact because I had sent my level 17 ranger to Metrica for a 4-event daily, and he could not get credit. As mobs ran forward, 4 at a time in one event, all the mobs were vaporized before he can do enough damage to get credit.)
[part 1 of long post]

[part 2 of long post]
Something went wrong. To me it started with the champ train. Initially the train seemed benign, especially for my weak messer. I was in Queensdale having a good time leveling up my alt messer on the train, when I heard new players asking what was the train? They never saw any of the champs because the champs died quickly. Some of us told them to go to certain waypoints to catch the train. (But you know what? I know their experience was not the same. There was no longer life and death struggles. They were just riding in a train where veteran players killed every champ, and they got credit. The fights were no longer life vs. death, fun team cooperation. Just a grind.)

Then there came a nerf to champ train so that there are most champs became vets in newbie zones. Part of me saw why the champ train was nerfed. Part of me missed the Queensdale witty chat from RP players. That fun social died with the train’s death. I didn’t really react much to the nerf. Even when a friend of mine was very upset at NPE, I told him it’s just a short stage we go through, and no biggie.

But now I realize something…

Now the new players don’t even get to see the floating chest as much. They don’t get to wander and be surprised by the champ event. They hear it announced on the map channel. 2 min till Maw! They think to themselves, “What Maw?” They follow instruction to get there. The NPE has less wonder to it, more “follow the veteran players”. They feel they are just a tiny newbie. In a big world, and the first impression of this big world is: “It’s not living, breathing, as much as be there at a certain hour and minute.” Then try to do enough dps to get credit.

They are at the receiving end of older players’ mercy when it comes to being rezzed. They don’t get to be a hero till much later.

I don’t think they get the same thrill as we beta player got: that this is a hugely fun dynamic event game where you will no longer deal with raiding guild politics. You can raid any time and have fun helping your fellow adventurers.

In beta days we players all worked as a team in PvE. That is another ANet vision. They want players to be happy to see other players. Not worry about node fights, loot fights.

That floating chest, shows newbie players they each have their own floating chest. They attend an impromptu raid and can have instant team cooperation for the thrill of fun, without DKP, forced online time, etc. What a revolutionary approach to the tired old raid system.

That, was my NPE experience, that got me so hyped I was spinning for days, and looked forward to GW2 launch with a fever.

Now my level 17 ranger, as he attempted daily events, felt sad when level 80s showed up. It meant he’ll likely have to find another event. The thing is, he’s in a level 1-15 zone. I can’t imagine what life is for a real newbie who may only be level 12. The event was around level 12.

Solution? I do have some vague ideas. But I just need to get this off my chest first. Pardon me for a long post here. Part 3 will be shorter.

I think ANet should first of all re-examine the way champs in newbie zones were nerfed out of existence. Was that really necessary to fix the champ train syndrome? What are the better alternatives to keep the Champ-quality Raid available for newbies, and yet prevent veteran players from dominating those newbie zone dynamic events?

One idea (I have not thought this through at all, so it can be a really bad idea!) comes to mind is make the champ event occurrence random, rather than time-based. Another idea is, perhaps in mega-event server algorithm, add something so that lower level characters can elect to be placed on the “newbie” mega server, away from high level characters intrusion. This "newbie’ mega server is not available to high level characters. It’s for NPE experience.

An existing account’s lowbie character, though, may choose this “newbie” mega server.

( I had posted in another thread to suggest “play style choice” such as “Light RP”, “Lore RP”, “Combat Academy”, in mega server selection. This is in the same vein of that “play style choice”.)

In case a new player has an old friend who is level 80 that wants to join him, then they will both be placed on normal server, where the friend can certainly help, but this won’t bother other new players.

I hope all newbies forever can have the NPE we beta players had.

I don’t know if this has been mentioned elsewhere in the 24 pages of this thread, but…

I think the personal story rewards should be revisited. It feels weird getting a level-8 greatsword from a story step that only unlocks at level 10.

BlueOcean.5380:

I think ANet should first of all re-examine the way champs in newbie zones were nerfed out of existence. Was that really necessary to fix the champ train syndrome? What are the better alternatives to keep the Champ-quality Raid available for newbies, and yet prevent veteran players from dominating those newbie zone dynamic events?

One idea (I have not thought this through at all, so it can be a really bad idea!) comes to mind is make the champ event occurrence random, rather than time-based. Another idea is, perhaps in mega-event server algorithm, add something so that lower level characters can elect to be placed on the “newbie” mega server, away from high level characters intrusion. This "newbie’ mega server is not available to high level characters. It’s for NPE experience.

An existing account’s lowbie character, though, may choose this “newbie” mega server.

( I had posted in another thread to suggest “play style choice” such as “Light RP”, “Lore RP”, “Combat Academy”, in mega server selection. This is in the same vein of that “play style choice”.)

In case a new player has an old friend who is level 80 that wants to join him, then they will both be placed on normal server, where the friend can certainly help, but this won’t bother other new players.

I hope all newbies forever can have the NPE we beta players had.

Maybe bring back the champs in the starter zones but only have them drop level 8-20, rare, account bound gear. Something that the people leveling would value but level 80s would have no use for. This should stop the high levels from farming the champs while encouraging the low levels to try to kill them.

Astral Projections.7320:

Maybe bring back the champs in the starter zones but only have them drop level 8-20, rare, account bound gear. Something that the people leveling would value but level 80s would have no use for. This should stop the high levels from farming the champs while encouraging the low levels to try to kill them.

Thanks for your idea. I know we are just throwing out ideas. There are many fine-tuning steps that need to be taken over details of any change. For example, what happens if we don’t have enough newbie players to fill a newbie server? We may have enough to fill 2 servers, but the 3rd may lack numbers.

If that should happen, we may wish we had veteran players to fill the gap.

Another idea is a change should still accommodate veteran players to fight side-by-side, perhaps via nerfing their current dps more as they join a newbie zone. They will then face as much danger as the rest of the newbies, and only can do as much damage as the rest of the newbies. But for that sacrifice, they will earn all level 75- 80 gear, be it white, blue, green, yellow, orange. Including dragonite ore.

If we did something like that, we won’t even need to worry about newbie servers. It’ll just be a standard server.

Part of me is not too thrilled at the idea of having my level 80 to still struggle in a newbie zone. I’m sure others may feel the same way about their veteran level 80 characters. Yet, there are times I feel I miss the old, hard champion fights. Every time I go to Harathi, I miss the 4 am champ fights we used to do at the champ events there. Back then we died left and right. Now I can’t believe how easy that fight has become. :P

Before people start casting stones at me for suggesting we should nerf level 80 characters and their ascended/exotic gear advantage in newbie zones, maybe I should go running and ducking.. :P

Cough, cough.

Without knowing the real internal reason on why GW2 has been going through champ train nerf, NPE, trait changes. mega server .. it’s been very puzzling to me. I have no idea what is really behind the scene to require all these changes.

All I can feel is: things do not look cohesive to me. It feels like there is a lack of QA. I also don’t like the idea of getting rewards that I have to drag and destroy. It breaks immersion, and is a sign of unpolished mechanism to me.

I don’t know what’s going on. So all I can say now is: please think QA, please think immersion. Best wishes. I do wish to still play GW2 10 years from now and be proud of this game as I was during beta.

If you build it they will come. Take care everyone.

P.S. One thing I forgot to address is the New Dailies’s role in creating pain for new players in their NPE.

In the past players were free to roam to any racial zone to complete their daily events. This was healthy for the game because it naturally spread the player population out to support many zones in the game. It is a good mechanism when the game intends to keep all zones viable for entertainment.

Now, with a single, designated zone for the 4-event, whenever the event is in a newbie zone, it’s a sad day for all newbies. They get to watch veteran players dominate the zone.

When the event is in a level too high for newbies, they are forced to do fractal, PvP, or WvW when some of them may not enjoy those activities at all. Is this the NPE we want?

Things like these: 1) new daily events, 2) champ train nerf, 3) mega server, 4) trait change, etc. all have caused problems. They seem to be patches to fix something that is of concern to the company regarding a part of the game, of which we as players can’t be sure why. But without thinking through all the QA factors, and the impact on the original vision of the game, … one can find the game in trouble, losing all of its original elements that had made it an outstanding, revolutionary game.

Now the game actually makes me hurt to see we are sinking to the level of 100 other FTP games with pop-up reward window that comes out of nowhere, not nearly as meaningful as the first dynamic raid in which we all got a beautiful chest floating on the side.

Now new players are getting that pop-up box they need to drag and destroy many items, while feeling the power of all old players knocking them down at each forced-zone daily event. This turns the game into one where players dread daily events in their starting zone.

Deep structure cohesion takes careful maintenance. You can not do it just once via great design, then ignore them as if they will last forever.

Sorry if come across harsh. Due to my love for this game, I was actually in pain watching how this game is deteriorated by these careless measures.. Now I hope something will be done to address deep issues that stemmed from many careless moves.

Thank you, and I hope we will all see GW2 glow in the future. I certainly do!

BlueOcean.5380:

Now, with a single, designated zone for the 4-event, whenever the event is in a newbie zone, it’s a sad day for all newbies. They get to watch veteran players dominate the zone.

When the event is in a level too high for newbies, they are forced to do fractal, PvP, or WvW when some of them may not enjoy those activities at all. Is this the NPE we want?

Good point, mainly the last. Not everyone are up to do fractals, PvP, WvW and such and then their choices become limited. Even for experienced player with all maps opened it may become limited because occasionally the dailies would be just like one 4-events daily and one like gathering-type daily and all others would be fractal related plus PvP and WvW. Even being needed to do only 3, at times players who aren’t up to that game modes don’t get options enough to complete it.

Vayne.8563:

Everybody doesn’t have to. For people repeating the content it should come quite naturally. Getting to level 15 in under two hours takes almost no effort at all. For new people, they might take longer, but as they’re learning and exploring, it won’t seem the same for them…at least I don’t think it should.

Are you a new player? That is, first account, first character? If not, then your leveling experience with the NPE isn’t really relevant to a new player’s leveling experience, as the early leveling experience, as atrocious as it currently is, was designed with brand new players in mind.

Also, you appear to have missed the posts where people have said that they were bored early on with there being nothing really to do in the early zones. So apparently it doesn’t “come naturally” for them.

And you didn’t even address my point at all…about if it really is appropriate to have to speed lvl to 15+ as fast as possible in a game that one of its major selling points was “being able to play however you want, whenever you want.”

nGumball.1283:

One point that alot of people are just ignoring is that a HUGE junk of GW2 players left the game becasue they couldn’t figure it out. It was too different and they just felt lost while leveling up.

The new system is an improvement to many, who now can have a new-player friendly experience that will introduce different parts of the game at different times. I don’t think the NPE is a bad change at all. It is different, though not bad. And in my personal opinion, it is an improvement for new players.

Assuming, of course, that they’ll still want to stick around when they decide to make a second character and realize that they have to go through all the NPE restrictions and gating AGAIN… and for every single character created after that.

HandOfKane.5409:

Are you a new player? That is, first account, first character? If not, then your leveling experience with the NPE isn’t really relevant to a new player’s leveling experience, as the early leveling experience, as atrocious as it currently is, was designed with brand new players in mind.

That’s exactly how I said before…

shadow.6174:

Stop using second character as argument. As I said before it’s a New Players Experience, first character, first moments in the game, first impression of the whole. When someone gets to the point of making a second char they aren’t a new player anymore. Let’s focus on how it looks for the New, how it looks at the very first time.

After recently playing some new characters through the premiere NPE’d levels, here are some things that have made me emulate kitten nio Hall. /e hmm.

Someone asked, “Where do I get skill points?” I told them to look for the blue chevron thingees on the map, and lead them to one. Alas. This person was not yet of sufficient level to possess the skills necessary to face these dauntingly daunting skill challenges, so… pfft. Come back later, aight? That’s not confusing at all, is it. Hmm.

Meanwhile, over in Plains of Ashford, there’s a heart, I forget the name of the NPC, despite having done this twice recently. Sigh. Old age. Anyway, used to be, you fought animals in an arena, and could choose the animals and the level of difficulty. Now, the NPC gives you a gun and sets you off to capture drakes or minotaurs for the arena. This, of course, replaces your skills with the weapon’s… er, skills. Wasn’t that something they were trying to avoid, to avoid newbie confusion? As in, isn’t that the reason we are no longer able to feed the cows or water the corn in Queensdale? Or is there some other reason we now dance for the cows? Anyway, before, that heart was fun and not particularly tedious. Now, however, if there are several people hunting the drakes, well, are we not directly competing with each other for content/resources? Thought that was a design philosophy no-no. Hmm.

Over in Wayfarer Foothills, we can’t feed the bear cubs the tasty fish anymore, because hmm. We can still turn into snow leopards, which replaces our skills with one snow leopard attack. I think we had two snow leopard attacks before NPE. Maybe? I forget. Danged old age. Once again, inconsistency rears its ugly head. Unless there really is some other reason for the dancing with cows… hmm. No idea why the bunny thing was moved. The keg toss thing now has a circle telling you where to be to catch it. That gets an /e Fluttershy yay.

Sidebar: since LS1 is gone with the wind, why not make Braham’s home town a part of the main zone? Put a poi in there or something. Otherwise, why is it even there? Well. I didn’t go in. Maybe there’s something in there now. Maybe it’s the most fun thing ever, and I’ve been missing out. Maybe Jormag moved in and opened an amusement park and asura aren’t allowed to ride the rides because they aren’t ‘this tall’.

Moving on.

At level 6 (?) I think, you get your choice of one of three dyes. That’s great! Especially on your first three characters. Each one can take a different dye, and woo hoo! After that, though, when your fourth character gets to choose from the same three dyes, well, that’s not so great. In fact, it’s kinda, well, like someone going ‘neener neener’ at you. Hmm.

The downed skills were annoyingly lacking for what seemed like an annoyingly long time, especially when their presence might have saved my mesmer from her first annoying and untimely defeat.

At level 17, I think, after completing her tour of Hoelbrak, my mesmer was lead to believe that new challenges awaited her in the Dredgehaunt Cliffs. I bet they did! I thought that little boo boo had been taken care of. Guess not. No worries, though. Being an old player, I knew better.

Anyway. Just some observations from someone who experienced the OPE and would rather have it to re-experience again than the NPE.

Yah, the part about where challenges await you does seem to be bugged or not well designed. It frequently points to a nearby undone area, no matter how inappropriate it is instead of the a zone which is within my character level.

My guess is it’s because it’s pointing through the Asuran gates so if my low level char is in LA, instead of pointing out Wayfarer’s, for example, it points out Lornar’s pass (presumably because that map is between it and Wayfarer’s).

Tachenon.5270:

After recently playing some new characters through the premiere NPE’d levels, here are some things

Excellent post. QA dream post!

On another note. The new player reward offerings seem to be from a designer grasping for straws to have enough reward items to fill those pop-up boxes.

For me as a player it was very unappetizing to see that at certain levels, whoa, (surprise, and not in a good way) suddenly I get 8 skill points. What did I do to suddenly deserve 8 skill points? It felt like a gamemaster with god-complex in a table top game who grins at his group of players and says, "NOW you get 8 skill points! Hhahah am I not generous?!?:

Other levels, whoa? My god-complex gamemaster decides I get trait points.

I much prefer the past when we got regular skill point, trait point. It felt like a cohesive system that rewarded players in a traditional sense of level-progression. It felt smooth, and I as a player could plan and daydream about how I was going to obtain my next big skill, that I wanted to get, or my next trait skill.

Now, I can’t even remember at what level I’ll be “granted” a flood of skill points. I’d need to check wiki to just figure it out. And the news is not good there. I need to wait a long long time. And, as some players have pointed out, my skill slot is already open, yet I can’t fill it with anything for another several levels due to the fact that my god-complex gm has not even granted him his bundle of skill points yet.

Wonderful… mutter mutter.

If this were a tabletop game, I wonder how many players will keep attending the sessions. I feel the award curve is uneven, and many things are put there just so the NPE change program can have something to fill the reward box.

Taking a deep breath.. so long for now. (Still playing the game, but sitting back on forum.)

I’m just glad these days I’m playing totally independently. I ignore the daily events. Wish there is a way I can get rid of that list from my UI. I play in off beat zones, having a grand time. I have 80, maybe more, alts, but the current alt is the last I’m leveling to 80. The other 67 or so will remain untouched. After that I plan to just goof and never buy gems again. I’m not sure if this will help the game’s revenue, but it’s not my choice to make. It’s the god-complex gm’s choice.

I am trying to lead a few friends through the starter zones and I feel I might lose them from the game at the current rate.

I directed them to a Vista and they asked “Are these supposed to be on my map?”

They walked up to a communable skill point and asked “what is it?”

They wanted to know how to craft, so I tried to direct them to a merchant that would sell them salvage kits and gathering tools….apparently you can’t even SEE the tools/kits in the merchant without being sufficient level?! WHAT?!

They also thought that dancing for cows was “incredibly stupid”

Zietlogik.6208:

I am trying to lead a few friends through the starter zones and I feel I might lose them from the game at the current rate.

My old bud left his alt at level 2 since NPE, and has not returned. His last comment was: “Where is the ranger pet control window?” I said “It’ll pop at level 5”. He never leveled his ranger up to level 3. He’s the type that just quits, without a single word. He drops in just to write in-game mail to tell me his family is doing fine, and he’s having fun in EQ2.

All these problems make me realize the future of GW2 may be in danger. This is the major reason I’m no longer investing in this game. I’m finishing up my last alt. But do not wish to spend more time, nor money until I see things improve. There is no point building up an alt army, nor a guild hall, if one day the game is going to nowhere.

(Sorry for yet another post. :P Later.)

I feel that the iteration process that got us to this sorry excuse for an “improvement” was sort of like inventing the wheel. I’m trying to come up to a good analogy regarding the first and current game experience for new players, so bare with me for a bit. It goes something like this:

At first the wheel was invented, and it was good. It allowed you to go wherever you wished, provided that you could look at it and think a bit before actually starting to move. You couldn’t just sit on the wheel now, could you?

Then some salesman though “I need to sell more carts, but everyone already has a wheel… I know! I’ll make it square, so it’s different and everybody will want one.” This is where we currently are in the game – the square wheel.

So we’re stuck with this wheel, having previously tried the round wheel. New buyers of the wheel hear of the mythological “round” wheel in awe.

We were promised a review of the design of this square wheel.

Having seen things happen in various things along my life regarding changes for the worst, I can give you a glimpse of the future.

The salesman will not admit to his square wheel to be faulty. He will never admit to incompetence, poor decisions, bad ideas or anything of the like. The salesman and his product are perfect (this last sentence is sarcasm, in case you might be wondering).

Instead, he will blame you for not using it properly and being so dense about it. Eventually sighing and going “well, if you’re having such a hard time with it (all the while assuring you it’s your fault), I suppose I can do some smoothing on the edges”. And he will smooth, and smooth, and smooth edges until he returns to the round wheel (still saying it’s square and better, because he refuses to admit he is wrong).

Actually this is a hopeful wish. That things return to how they were and that they still call them “new”.

I hope someone (a lot of someones) get fired over this. Someone said getting people fired over this solves nothing. I partially agree. While it does not solve this predicament, it gives fair warning for the remaining employees that screwing up does not go unpunished.

And this was a major screw up…

It still troubles me that anyone tries defending this rubbish. The NPE was a failure on nearly every level.

Tachenon.5270:

Meanwhile, over in Plains of Ashford, there’s a heart […] used to be, you fought animals in an arena, and could choose the animals and the level of difficulty. Now, the NPC gives you a gun and sets you off to capture drakes or minotaurs for the arena. This, of course, replaces your skills with the weapon’s… er, skills. Wasn’t that something they were trying to avoid, to avoid newbie confusion? As in, isn’t that the reason we are no longer able to feed the cows or water the corn in Queensdale? Or is there some other reason we now dance for the cows? Anyway, before, that heart was fun and not particularly tedious. Now, however, if there are several people hunting the drakes, well, are we not directly competing with each other for content/resources? Thought that was a design philosophy no-no. Hmm.

Over in Wayfarer Foothills, we can’t feed the bear cubs the tasty fish anymore, because hmm. We can still turn into snow leopards, which replaces our skills with one snow leopard attack. [..] Once again, inconsistency rears its ugly head. Unless there really is some other reason for the dancing with cows… hmm. No idea why the bunny thing was moved. The keg toss thing now has a circle telling you where to be to catch it. That gets an /e Fluttershy yay.

It’s just… logic has been denied. :P Good points by the way and nothing to add to them.

BlueOcean.5380:

Wish there is a way I can get rid of that list from my UI. I play in off beat zones, having a grand time.

You cannot get rid of it completely but you can “shrink” it. Just pick up any uncompleted achievement out of daily list and set it to watch it, make sure you have only that achievement in your watch list and voila, you will have only that achievement in the UI for a lifetime, as long you don’t un-watch it or it gets completed. :P My list even still have Daily Halloween Costume Brawl still there as I didn’t un-watch it :P

HandOfKane.5409:

Vayne.8563:

Everybody doesn’t have to. For people repeating the content it should come quite naturally. Getting to level 15 in under two hours takes almost no effort at all. For new people, they might take longer, but as they’re learning and exploring, it won’t seem the same for them…at least I don’t think it should.

Are you a new player? That is, first account, first character? If not, then your leveling experience with the NPE isn’t really relevant to a new player’s leveling experience, as the early leveling experience, as atrocious as it currently is, was designed with brand new players in mind.

Also, you appear to have missed the posts where people have said that they were bored early on with there being nothing really to do in the early zones. So apparently it doesn’t “come naturally” for them.

And you didn’t even address my point at all…about if it really is appropriate to have to speed lvl to 15+ as fast as possible in a game that one of its major selling points was “being able to play however you want, whenever you want.”

You’ve apparently missed the posts where some people came back and said they liked it better.

I started a brand new account with the sale just to try it. For an experienced player, it was no issue for me to level through it, or very little issue.

For a new player, they’re not all going to be in the same camp. Very experienced MMOers will probably not like it as much. By the same token, very experienced MMOs will likely figure out how to level through it pretty fast.

New people to MMOs, which there are probably more of than experienced MMOs, at least at this point coming in, may not have that same experience. And those same people are probably less likely to post on forums.

Tachenon.5270:

Meanwhile, over in Plains of Ashford, there’s a heart, I forget the name of the NPC, despite having done this twice recently. Sigh. Old age. Anyway, used to be, you fought animals in an arena, and could choose the animals and the level of difficulty. Now, the NPC gives you a gun and sets you off to capture drakes or minotaurs for the arena. This, of course, replaces your skills with the weapon’s… er, skills. Wasn’t that something they were trying to avoid, to avoid newbie confusion? As in, isn’t that the reason we are no longer able to feed the cows or water the corn in Queensdale? Or is there some other reason we now dance for the cows? Anyway, before, that heart was fun and not particularly tedious. Now, however, if there are several people hunting the drakes, well, are we not directly competing with each other for content/resources? Thought that was a design philosophy no-no. Hmm.

I just want to point out, that the heart you speak of, and i know it well as it was one of my favorites to do. You could ALWAYS do the capturing part if you didnt want to fight in the arena, it was slower and took way more time. but it was always there!

Now, I have leveled new characters through the NPE, but being a veteran and having leveled characters before, i can say my play through wasnt much different, you gain levels so much faster now that its not to much of a loss of time to go back to do skill challenges or vistas.

Vayne.8563:

You’ve apparently missed the posts where some people came back and said they liked it better.

Really? Where? The only one I see who is regularly saying it is better (not is, not drive by posting like the person I quoted above) is, well, you. On the other side, I see shadow, myself, Ashendale, phys, Nilk, BlueOcean, and Tachenon, and possibly others that I’ve missed. So I don’t know if you really want to bring up which side has more forum supporters.

Vayne.8563:

I started a brand new account with the sale just to try it. For an experienced player, it was no issue for me to level through it, or very little issue.

Still not reading the posts. I asked (rhetorically, yes) if you were a new player. Since you’re not, thinking that new players will think the NPE is no big deal just because you don’t is sort of missing the point. New players won’t be speedrunning through the starting zones in order to level up as fast as possible.

This point was explained to you earlier in this very thread. (pages 14-15 IIRC) The fact that you’re still trying to repeat it is rather telling.

Vayne.8563:

For a new player, they’re not all going to be in the same camp. Very experienced MMOers will probably not like it as much. By the same token, very experienced MMOs will likely figure out how to level through it pretty fast.

Then what is the point of having the NPE in that case? Seems rather pointless to force experienced players through the NPE if they’re just going to get annoyed and/or use workarounds to skip it (which is, you know, the point we’ve been trying to make since day 1)

Vayne.8563:

New people to MMOs, which there are probably more of than experienced MMOs, at least at this point coming in, may not have that same experience. And those same people are probably less likely to post on forums.

Merely you guessing.

All of those who I have recruited to this game who were new to MMO’s (and a few entirely to PC gaming in general) thought the beginning of the game was too boring and stupid and quit because of all of the progress gating after the NPE and trait systems took effect.

And the veterans to the MMO world also got up and quit seeing as most MMO’s don’t gate content like the concept of skills at all. The one which I come from actually let you take level/stat requirements off of gear to let people get access to the more difficult content zones earlier for an extra challenge/EXP from fighting without skill use. This made the game very much self-paced and was excellent.

Since the mobs have been nerfed in the starting areas, anyways, it makes no difference if a new player is confused at the beginning and doesn’t learn to unlock traits until level 30 from word of mouth. Just having the ability to start earlier is so much more preferred and removes unnecessary gating of content.

RPG’s should be played at the speed the players want to. This goes all the way back to Dungeons and Dragons. If your party doesn’t like your DM’ing methods/progression speed, either they inform you and you fix it, or they choose to leave/the DM finds new players instead. We play these games for interaction and to experiment in a new world that lets us. It inspires curiosity at the pace of the learner. If all public schools held back everyone/moved at the pace of special ed students or those with serious learning disabilities, or simply, just slower students, we’d live in a society with virtually no progression since the top of the class would never have the opportunity to truly learn, or would simply quit school as soon as possible just for the sake of preserving their sanity.

HandOfKane.5409:

Vayne.8563:

You’ve apparently missed the posts where some people came back and said they liked it better.

Really? Where? The only one I see who is regularly saying it is better (not is, not drive by posting like the person I quoted above) is, well, you. On the other side, I see shadow, myself, Ashendale, phys, Nilk, BlueOcean, and Tachenon, and possibly others that I’ve missed. So I don’t know if you really want to bring up which side has more forum supporters.

Vayne.8563:

I started a brand new account with the sale just to try it. For an experienced player, it was no issue for me to level through it, or very little issue.

Still not reading the posts. I asked (rhetorically, yes) if you were a new player. Since you’re not, thinking that new players will think the NPE is no big deal just because you don’t is sort of missing the point. New players won’t be speedrunning through the starting zones in order to level up as fast as possible.

This point was explained to you earlier in this very thread. (pages 14-15 IIRC) The fact that you’re still trying to repeat it is rather telling.

Vayne.8563:

For a new player, they’re not all going to be in the same camp. Very experienced MMOers will probably not like it as much. By the same token, very experienced MMOs will likely figure out how to level through it pretty fast.

Then what is the point of having the NPE in that case? Seems rather pointless to force experienced players through the NPE if they’re just going to get annoyed and/or use workarounds to skip it (which is, you know, the point we’ve been trying to make since day 1)

Vayne.8563:

New people to MMOs, which there are probably more of than experienced MMOs, at least at this point coming in, may not have that same experience. And those same people are probably less likely to post on forums.

Merely you guessing.

You’ve got it in one. Seven people complaining over and over again does not a stampede make. You named people who have posted dozens of times in this thread, while ignoring the drive bys that say I’m fine with it, or it’s not as bad as people say, or even I like it better.

I’m not going to do your work for you. Look at the thread and start putting marks next to people who complain about it multiple times such as yourself and people who don’t have a problem with it.

It’s closer than you think.

DeceiverX.8361:

RPG’s should be played at the speed the players want to. This goes all the way back to Dungeons and Dragons. If your party doesn’t like your DM’ing methods/progression speed, either they inform you and you fix it, or they choose to leave/the DM finds new players instead. We play these games for interaction and to experiment in a new world that lets us. It inspires curiosity at the pace of the learner. If all public schools held back everyone/moved at the pace of special ed students or those with serious learning disabilities, or simply, just slower students, we’d live in a society with virtually no progression since the top of the class would never have the opportunity to truly learn, or would simply quit school as soon as possible just for the sake of preserving their sanity.

+10 to this. What can I add more…

BlueOcean.5380:

If this were a tabletop game, I wonder how many players will keep attending the sessions. I feel the award curve is uneven, and many things are put there just so the NPE change program can have something to fill the reward box.

I’d probably have rewritten all their books by this point, made them make sense, smoothed out all the rubbish and jagged idiocy and dropped them on the table with a taciturn ‘There. I fixed it for you’ flatly uttered in their general direction.

‘Cause kitten, I could design a better NPE system than this if I were half awake. I don’t have any problem in the world with the idea of an NPE, but in this implementation?

Somebody got paid to design this? Seriously?

I sit back and I ponder exactly how many people got paid to come up with this …inexplicable farce. There are good ideas there, but they’re so scrambled up with bizarre and inexplicable rubbish that I can’t even make sense of how this went live at all.

Stats and skill points being with-held until large piles of both are unceremoniously dropped on your head? Wot? Why?

Utterly locking various and assorted UI panes until one reaches a certain level? What the-who even- WHY?!

I can understand very well that they might’ve perceived some need to come up with a more hand-holdy experience to ease new players into understanding things, but this doesn’t look like its actually even very good for that.

I know that I would’ve have found it helpful when I was new at launch. I’d have found it bizarre and annoying, and ultimately, when I finally did understand things with broad proficiency, insulting and stupid.

I find it presently to be bizarre and annoying and, ultimately, insulting and stupid. I cannot for the life of me figure out why half of it was done as it was.

Though I do like the little rings in lowbie areas that teach people how to dodge at something. That’s a nice touch. Things like that are good.

Gating 6 trait points until the very last levels is not.

Making stat acquisition go from a smooth per-level interval to an intermittent burst makes no sense at all, is not good and does nothing but add to the confusion of the matter in that I’m now confused by it whereas I never was before, and I cannot see how it’s made anything better for anyone at all.

What’d it even do? Did they just change it for the sake of change? Did Invader Zim pull some levers and push some buttons when they weren’t looking?

So yeah. If this were a tabletop game, I’d accuse the GM of being high, drunk or both at the very least.

And then I’d rewrite all his or her kitten books, ’cause they now suck and make no sense and no, I do not require payment for this service, consider it an act of charity unto the desperately needy.

Vayne.8563:

You’ve apparently missed the posts where some people came back and said they liked it better.

I started a brand new account with the sale just to try it. For an experienced player, it was no issue for me to level through it, or very little issue.

For a new player, they’re not all going to be in the same camp. Very experienced MMOers will probably not like it as much. By the same token, very experienced MMOs will likely figure out how to level through it pretty fast.

New people to MMOs, which there are probably more of than experienced MMOs, at least at this point coming in, may not have that same experience. And those same people are probably less likely to post on forums.

I wish you weren’t right, but it very likely is better for new players than nothing at all.

I do not for a moment think its good, and am absolutely certain that it could be much, much better if someone designed it to be a proper tutorial-thingy rather than some dog and pony show making needless spectacles out of locked UI elements and playing Feast or Famine with skill and trait points.

But yeah, I have no doubt that its improved things to some extent for new players. I’m just…I’ve seen RIFT’s tutorials.

There you go, Anet. RIFT has paved the way for you: insert short, fun little videos explaining things in talking-people-voices that can be skipped after they’ve been viewed once, and can be referenced at any point after.

I dunno what this NPE is even trying to do. Its like they had the idea to make an NPE and then went off in five different directions, and anything that’s actually of benefit to new players happened more by accident than design.

Well. I really hope the expansion deals constructively with some of these odd design choices. The three dye business, which I had not noticed before I started these new NPE’d characters, pretty much encapsulates the whole thing: I am left feeling that someone somewhere just painted by numbers, and didn’t bother to think it through.

“Stop treating us like metrics! We are not the statistics!” ~ Tachenach

I’ll like to throw in my two cents. I have only skimmed over some of the posts so I apologize if this was mentioned already. I’m also a bit uninformed as I haven’t made a new character in a while.

So I read that some of the Hearts were simplified and special bundles/skills were removed so new players would not get confused. Now I remember back when I was a new player. I loved those missions where we got out of the normal weapons and into tools or transformations to do special tasks. It definitely felt like a much more immersive world and definitely better than a simple grind.

I understand it may still be confusing if you’re not using your normal weapons and it may not help develop some weapons usage experience. I feel it should not be completely discounted. I think non-intrusive tool-tips may help, something that pops up new the skill bar that mentions you have equipped a special bundle. Maybe a quick “follow these steps” guide to work out some new mechanics. I’m thinking from my SO’s point of view who doesn’t play any games other than Mario Kart or Mario Party. I find using events/hearts or even personal story to develop mechanics such as weapon skills, traits, underwater combat, weapon swapping, utility skills, vistas, and etc would have a better lasting impact than just getting it when you level up. Something that can get the player involved without having to go look it up on another resource or asking someone can improve the experience.

Of course I have to support the cause to reduce level-gating content for people who are looking to create additional characters and having the option to use the current progression or the old pre NPE progression.

Vayne.8563:

You’ve got it in one. Seven people complaining over and over again does not a stampede make. You named people who have posted dozens of times in this thread, while ignoring the drive bys that say I’m fine with it, or it’s not as bad as people say, or even I like it better.

I’m not going to do your work for you. Look at the thread and start putting marks next to people who complain about it multiple times such as yourself and people who don’t have a problem with it.

It’s closer than you think.

Nope. You were the one who brought up the “my side has more forum supporters than yours” argument (which had nothing to do with the original post, but w/e). You make the claim, you prove it.

Also, you may not want to include drive-by posts, as you might be surprised.

BTW, compared to one person complaining, seven people complaining is a “stampede.”

Cyanide.1694:

I’ll like to throw in my two cents. I have only skimmed over some of the posts so I apologize if this was mentioned already. I’m also a bit uninformed as I haven’t made a new character in a while.

So I read that some of the Hearts were simplified and special bundles/skills were removed so new players would not get confused. Now I remember back when I was a new player. I loved those missions where we got out of the normal weapons and into tools or transformations to do special tasks. It definitely felt like a much more immersive world and definitely better than a simple grind.

I understand it may still be confusing if you’re not using your normal weapons and it may not help develop some weapons usage experience. I feel it should not be completely discounted. I think non-intrusive tool-tips may help, something that pops up new the skill bar that mentions you have equipped a special bundle. Maybe a quick “follow these steps” guide to work out some new mechanics. I’m thinking from my SO’s point of view who doesn’t play any games other than Mario Kart or Mario Party. I find using events/hearts or even personal story to develop mechanics such as weapon skills, traits, underwater combat, weapon swapping, utility skills, vistas, and etc would have a better lasting impact than just getting it when you level up. Something that can get the player involved without having to go look it up on another resource or asking someone can improve the experience.

Of course I have to support the cause to reduce level-gating content for people who are looking to create additional characters and having the option to use the current progression or the old pre NPE progression.

Oh you mean, make an actual tutorial. Unfortunately, that seems too overwhelming and confusing for Anet to do. *wink*wink* *nudge*nudge*

naiasonod.9265:

Making stat acquisition go from a smooth per-level interval to an intermittent burst makes no sense at all, is not good and does nothing but add to the confusion of the matter in that I’m now confused by it whereas I never was before, and I cannot see how it’s made anything better for anyone at all.

Not to mention the “stat slump” problem that someone else mentioned earlier in this thread.

HandOfKane.5409:

Vayne.8563:

You’ve got it in one. Seven people complaining over and over again does not a stampede make. You named people who have posted dozens of times in this thread, while ignoring the drive bys that say I’m fine with it, or it’s not as bad as people say, or even I like it better.

I’m not going to do your work for you. Look at the thread and start putting marks next to people who complain about it multiple times such as yourself and people who don’t have a problem with it.

It’s closer than you think.

Nope. You were the one who brought up the “my side has more forum supporters than yours” argument (which had nothing to do with the original post, but w/e). You make the claim, you prove it.

Also, you may not want to include drive-by posts, as you might be surprised.

BTW, compared to one person complaining, seven people complaining is a “stampede.”

Well since you don’t want to look and I know what I’m talking about, you’re the one missing out on the truth. It doesn’t surprise me though, because you’re only interested in venting. The fact,. and it is a fact, that there are people that like this system better), means not everyone is complaining. And many of the people who complained originally didn’t even try the NPE and said so. And then Anet DID make changes to it based on feedback and a few people that had complained originally changed their tune.

But none of this matters to you. You only to vent. Go ahead. It’s easy enough for anyone to go and see that some people have liked the new system.

The only real complaint I have about it is what they did to the personal story in the last installments. Other than that, I prefer it to the old system.

And yes, I’m not the only one.

Vayne.8563:

Well since you don’t want to look and I know what I’m talking about, you’re the one missing out on the truth. It doesn’t surprise me though, because you’re only interested in venting.

Translation: I’m right just because I said so! And you’re wrong, also just because I said so!

Vayne.8563:

The fact,. and it is a fact, that there are people that like this system better), means not everyone is complaining. And many of the people who complained originally didn’t even try the NPE and said so. And then Anet DID make changes to it based on feedback and a few people that had complained originally changed their tune.

Well yes, I’m sure someone, somewhere out in Tyria actually is liking this system better. Congrats on stating the obvious. And several other people did not change their tune after the 9/16. Heh, we’re back to the original point.

Vayne.8563:

But none of this matters to you. You only to vent. Go ahead. It’s easy enough for anyone to go and see that some people have liked the new system.

Meh, if it makes you feel better to dismiss people who disagree with you as “only liking to vent,” go ahead. The rest of us will have a discussion about changes to make to the NPE.

I love how, in every post I’ve made to you on this thread, you focus like a laser on a side-point, and manage to draw the conversation off-topic.

Grasping at straws indeed.

ArenaNet explained why the NPE was implemented, and I understand their wanting to improve the game experience for new players.

That said, the NPE, combined with the trait changes, took something I enjoyed immensely and have done over two-dozen times — leveling alts — and transformed it into something so boring and tedious that I don’t like doing it anymore.

That’s how it has affected me. If other players like these changes or don’t mind either way, good for them and more power to them.

I don’t like the leveling process now because it has become unenjoyable as a direct result of these changes.

All the forum-bandying and white-knighting in the world isn’t going change that. Only improvements made by ArenaNet will.

HandOfKane.5409:

Vayne.8563:

Well since you don’t want to look and I know what I’m talking about, you’re the one missing out on the truth. It doesn’t surprise me though, because you’re only interested in venting.

Translation: I’m right just because I said so! And you’re wrong, also just because I said so!

Vayne.8563:

The fact,. and it is a fact, that there are people that like this system better), means not everyone is complaining. And many of the people who complained originally didn’t even try the NPE and said so. And then Anet DID make changes to it based on feedback and a few people that had complained originally changed their tune.

Well yes, I’m sure someone, somewhere out in Tyria actually is liking this system better. Congrats on stating the obvious. And several other people did not change their tune after the 9/16. Heh, we’re back to the original point.

Vayne.8563:

But none of this matters to you. You only to vent. Go ahead. It’s easy enough for anyone to go and see that some people have liked the new system.

Meh, if it makes you feel better to dismiss people who disagree with you as “only liking to vent,” go ahead. The rest of us will have a discussion about changes to make to the NPE.

I love how, in every post I’ve made to you on this thread, you focus like a laser on a side-point, and manage to draw the conversation off-topic.

Grasping at straws indeed.

The translation is that the evidence is right here, in this thread and you refuse to look at it. Who’s problem is that?

Convo over.

Hey guys, let’s stop attacking each other and driving it off-topic. Let’s focus on the main subject of this thread. Arguing about someone’s post won’t help to solve anything.

I just saw this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCSOFT

Also check out this if you are interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArenaNet

The passionate debate on a forum means very little in the large scheme of things. As a devoted mmorpg fan, I’ve been through lots of ups and downs. (wry chuckle). Life goes on. I’m only going to play any game for the fun in however limited way I get out of it. In the end we are all just players in a very large market of “player base” companies seek. A few threads on a forum mean nada to the big companies. :p

Anyway, have fun when you all can. I just got the best reward the other day for helping a newbie. He sent me this in whisper as his farewell message:

Laugh your cares away.
Worry for another day.
Let the music play.

(It beats any gear to me. :p I have it on my desk and look at it, and smile each day.)
Take care you all, and have fun.

Vayne.8563:

The translation is that the evidence is right here, in this thread and you refuse to look at it. Who’s problem is that?

Convo over.

I think this bears repeating:

HandOfKane.5409:

Translation: I’m right just because I said so! And you’re wrong, also just because I said so!

And you say the convo is over, and yet you keep responding. Funny. No one’s forcing you to read or respond to my posts.

Now we can get back on topic and discuss changes to the NPE like shadow said, or we can continue to deflect to off topic convos when we’re caught without anything to say.

And shadow’s right, I think the posts speak for themselves at this point.

Why do some players like the NPE?

Rewards!

We get some good stuff out of those level-up panels.

…that we can’t sell or salvage. How utterly polite of ANet to force exemptions on garbage gear that would serve to confuse and frustrate new players.

“I’ve outgrown this item. Time to use my salvage kit and… Why won’t it work? …Maybe I can sell it? No… Well, this is some bullkitten. It’d be a waste to destroy it, but…”

So yeah, stop making the level-up gear unsalvagable. But maybe that’s just me. I know I can at least Mystic Toilet it with a few same-rarity karma items, but new players aren’t going to see that.

#tinyrant

Guess I’ll just reiterate what I said in my thread;

There’s dozens of kitten plotholes all over the place, characters constantly referring to events that have been REMOVED (Such as trahearne telling me he was sorry about the death of a character that NO LONGER HAPPENS), and NPCs I’ve never met acting like we know each other, until several missions later it’s like we’re meeting for the first time. (The cleansing of Orr comes to mind, who is this weird butterfly lady? Oh wait, I was meant to do her mission BEFORE the cleansing? So why is the cleansing— I don’t even—)
Not to mention the removal of an entire plot segment relating to your character’s greatest fear, which is still heavily referenced throughout the story but is now never a significant point beyond foreshadowing that ultimately now leads nowhere.
Please fix these gaping plot holes, 1-70 is perfectly serviceable but from that point on the Personal Story just becomes a mess. Some of it was done for convenience (Such as moving most starting points onto the airship), some done for ease of access (The level requirements) but there was zero reason to jumble around the missions into a completely random order until many, many things make no sense. And there was no reason to remove the mission where your character accidentally bombards a pack of his or her own soldiers whilst they were under an illusion, that was a powerful moment for the story and it had a great sense of purpose. Now? Your character is basically… never wrong. Which feels very two dimensional.

Hell they could make it split up into 5 levels rather than 10 if they feel they drag out. It honestly seems to me during the restructure of the last ten levels of story, the testers just skipped all the text and just said whether or not they were able to finish it. A complete shame, as up until the Battle for Claw Island the story is neatly tied together, but after that it just became less interesting, and now it’s even worse because characters keep referring to events that either didn’t happen, have yet to happen or are just plain inconsistent.
Heck the missing missions are STILL ON THE WIKI, listed as being after the battle for Fort Trinity.

About fixes to Personal Story let me bring up a request again: when “fixing” it, please DON’T make amendments or emendations in order to make it appear as if it makes some sense, revert it to the original storytelling. The original writer put then that way for some reason and it’s stupid to mess with its order. If there are boring parts people can just do stuff ignoring dialogs and such. Also, what may be boring to one may not be boring to others. Again, not everyone is equal.

Vayne.8563:

You’ve got it in one. Seven people complaining over and over again does not a stampede make. You named people who have posted dozens of times in this thread, while ignoring the drive bys that say I’m fine with it, or it’s not as bad as people say, or even I like it better.

I’m not going to do your work for you. Look at the thread and start putting marks next to people who complain about it multiple times such as yourself and people who don’t have a problem with it.

How about if I do the work for both of you?
I actually thought about what Vayne was saying here, and I wondered just what the numbers were. So I decided to go to page 1 and make a spreadsheet. Any opinion which was stated as overall negative got a ranking of “nay.” Any opinion overall positive got a “yay.” Any opinion which was modified to be better after their own OP also got a “yay.” Any opinion which was ambiguous, but seemed positive got a “yay.” Every poster got only one rank no matter how many posts they made. Any posts made regarding only the trait changes was ignored. Likewise, some posters which had no stated opinion were ignored. I purposely gave the “yay” crowd more leeway, and was more stringent on all of the “nay” votes.

Vayne.8563:

It’s closer than you think.

Not even a little bit close.
The final number, as of now, is 47 Yays.
The final number of nays?
225… that’s 17% for / 83% against the NPE.

Oh, wait…here’s my input. Overall, I understand why Anet wanted to do something, but I think it went in a bad direction.

226-47

Granted, that is only this thread.
In the interest of providing constructive criticism and not derailing the thread completely, I offer the following suggestions:
-Remove the level gating of PS.
-Remove the dancing for cows/other bundle changes. Those things were much better before.
-Add more actual explanation of game mechanics that are “confusing for new players” instead of removing functioning content or level gating content or features. Actual tutorials or even a GW2opedia to reference in-game would be great.
-Fix the stat slump and give SPs earlier.

I did like what they did for dodging, but I feel it came too late. I also liked the rewards, even though some of it becomes useless as you level.

I will hold any trait comments/complaints until the new system is launched.

I admire that you actually went and did the spreadsheet thing.

Also I agree with your suggestions, especially what you say about adding real tutorials and removing the level gating to the personal story.

You have beaten me, I was thinking about to research those statistics hehe.

Mojo Gris Gris.5941:

-Add more actual explanation of game mechanics that are “confusing for new players” instead of removing functioning content or level gating content or features. Actual tutorials or even a GW2opedia to reference in-game would be great.

I can’t agree more.

Mojo Gris Gris.5941:

I did like what they did for dodging, but I feel it came too late.

That’s one of the few good things they did. That’s how you teach people about stuff: practice. Preventing people to do things because you think they aren’t able to do or can get overwhelmed doesn’t work.

I think ANet should just go back to how everything was before the new NPE and just keep the rewards and add better tutorials and explanations instead of what they have done now. Players I’ve introduced after this NPE have complained about it and when I told them how it was before they felt like they had rather played back then. These people arent playing anymore and are likely not coming back.