Guild Wars 2

Broken forums are broken.

Astral Projections.7320:

If you aren’t negative about the way it is different, it’s quite possible your wife won’t even notice or it might not bother her if she does.

This.

Try to not poison it for her.

“Broken forums are broken.”

Lol yeah

But ja, we’ll test it out ourselves to see if the fuss is indeed warranted. (Not just the NPE fuss, I also mean level-gating and, the to be ‘fixed’ trait issues, backtracking and ‘quest markers/arrows’.)

I can’t help but feel that this could have all been avoided if it was all optional.

Ashen.2907:

Astral Projections.7320:

If you aren’t negative about the way it is different, it’s quite possible your wife won’t even notice or it might not bother her if she does.

This.

Try to not poison it for her.

Lol Ashen, don’t worry I won’t =P

Astral Projections.7320:

If you aren’t negative about the way it is different, it’s quite possible your wife won’t even notice or it might not bother her if she does.

Yes…it’s also possible that she won’t get what was such a big deal with the whole “play exactly how you want” idea and motivation that kept us pre-NPE players playing, or why the game was so highly praised pre-NPE. Thus the end result will still be that she doesn’t really want to play anyway, regardless if Cherine “poisons the well” or not.

Cherine.3184:

I can’t help but feel that this could have all been avoided if it was all optional.

I personally think that the NPE works against the stated intentions behind its implementation, but it would certainly be less of an annoyance for me personally if it was optional.

Cherine.3184:

I can’t help but feel that this could have all been avoided if it was all optional.

I can’t agree more…

shadow.6174:

Vayne, please, stop. Enough with that. Please focus on the subject of this thread and not in how people express their opinion.

I hope you see the irony in this post.

Cherine.3184:

“Broken forums are broken.”

Lol yeah

It’s true, there’s a forum bug thingee. When a thread reaches the number of posts needed to start a new page, sometimes all the previous posts kinda get hidden until someone posts something to, in essence, ‘feed the bug’.

Vayne.8563:

shadow.6174:

Vayne, please, stop. Enough with that. Please focus on the subject of this thread and not in how people express their opinion.

I hope you see the irony in this post.

Irony? Well, it’s the first time I say about how someone express their opinion. In other hand, several of your posts criticized how people based their opinion or how they expressed it. I’m just annoyed that whenever someone brings up some negative aspect you reply with critique about where they based their opinion instead with positive aspects about the subject. Anyway, I won’t take it to a personal discussion. Let’s keep it on track.

Vayne.8563:

shadow.6174:

Yes, there was a patch that fixed several things. But a big part of it still feels wrong and needs some action. Even after that fixes the system still treats people as having low IQ, things are still dumb and non-sense, it still have too much hand-holding and too much restrictions where it was never needed.

The fix done feels something like when someone holds your hand to help you to cross the street, then you tell them that they are gripping your hand too much and all what they do is only lessen it a very little bit, but still holding it tight as if supposing you aren’t able enough to do it on your own.

But there are people with low IQs. You’re probably a smart guy and smart people don’t realize that most people are average. There’s this thread right now on reddit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2vqowu/new_player_with_some_questions/

This guy is level 15 and doesn’t know what to do. He just doesn’t. Now I’m not saying he’s not intelligent. I’m saying he could be quite smart, but he’s from other games that give you very clear breadcrumb trails. This game doesn’t.

So any help you can give players that aren’t as quick as you are isn’t a bad thing. Frustrated people do leave games.

These changes weren’t meant for you and an experienced player can travel through them very quickly.

That’s why I say that our feedback, saying that we shouldn’t be treated like we’re stupid..well sure, that’s what the most intelligent people would think.

How about we try to be a little more understanding to those that haven’t picked it up so easily.

From someone who advocates a lot about not every game is for everyone please explain why we need to cater to these people. This game was already one of the easiest to pick up and play MMOs on the market. If he can’t get it then I’m pretty sure MMOs aren’t his thing. There is no reason to dumb the game down for someone who most likely won’t be hanging around anyways. There was already a starter area for every race, why not just add to that so its a better tutorial.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

There was already a starter area for every race, why not just add to that so its a better tutorial.

Exactly, like the dodge tutorial. Even many of the harshest critics state that said tutorial is the right kind of tutorial.

HandOfKane.5409:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

There was already a starter area for every race, why not just add to that so its a better tutorial.

Exactly, like the dodge tutorial. Even many of the harshest critics state that said tutorial is the right kind of tutorial.

Agreed. Its there to be investigated and learned from without impacting the experience of those who already understand the mechanic.

shadow.6174:

Vayne.8563:

shadow.6174:

Vayne, please, stop. Enough with that. Please focus on the subject of this thread and not in how people express their opinion.

I hope you see the irony in this post.

Irony? Well, it’s the first time I say about how someone express their opinion. In other hand, several of your posts criticized how people based their opinion or how they expressed it. I’m just annoyed that whenever someone brings up some negative aspect you reply with critique about where they based their opinion instead with positive aspects about the subject. Anyway, I won’t take it to a personal discussion. Let’s keep it on track.

But what I said is on track. There was a guy who came into this thread and said straight out that he read the thread and decided based on what you guys were saying that he isn’t even going to try or give the NPE a look. I told him I wouldn’t judge the entire game based on this thread, or even this and the trait thread.

I pointed out that a lot of new people who have tried this game have made positive posts about the game over all…which is true. There’s been a lot of positive comments from new people. The comments weren’t about the NPE. The comments were about the game being great. Obviously those people, if they were affected by the NPE don’t even know it. Not to mention the thousands, and yes there are thousands, of people to whom the NPE isn’t a big deal. I know this because it’s true for dozens of people in my guild and we’re not special snowflakes.

If you think there’s something wrong with telling someone that you believe this reaction is overstated and he should make up his own mind I have nothing left to say to you at all.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Vayne.8563:

shadow.6174:

Yes, there was a patch that fixed several things. But a big part of it still feels wrong and needs some action. Even after that fixes the system still treats people as having low IQ, things are still dumb and non-sense, it still have too much hand-holding and too much restrictions where it was never needed.

The fix done feels something like when someone holds your hand to help you to cross the street, then you tell them that they are gripping your hand too much and all what they do is only lessen it a very little bit, but still holding it tight as if supposing you aren’t able enough to do it on your own.

But there are people with low IQs. You’re probably a smart guy and smart people don’t realize that most people are average. There’s this thread right now on reddit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2vqowu/new_player_with_some_questions/

This guy is level 15 and doesn’t know what to do. He just doesn’t. Now I’m not saying he’s not intelligent. I’m saying he could be quite smart, but he’s from other games that give you very clear breadcrumb trails. This game doesn’t.

So any help you can give players that aren’t as quick as you are isn’t a bad thing. Frustrated people do leave games.

These changes weren’t meant for you and an experienced player can travel through them very quickly.

That’s why I say that our feedback, saying that we shouldn’t be treated like we’re stupid..well sure, that’s what the most intelligent people would think.

How about we try to be a little more understanding to those that haven’t picked it up so easily.

From someone who advocates a lot about not every game is for everyone please explain why we need to cater to these people. This game was already one of the easiest to pick up and play MMOs on the market. If he can’t get it then I’m pretty sure MMOs aren’t his thing. There is no reason to dumb the game down for someone who most likely won’t be hanging around anyways. There was already a starter area for every race, why not just add to that so its a better tutorial.

We cater to people for the game to exist and continue. That’s why the average/lowest common denominator has always been catered to. Games that are aimed at only the highest percentage of the population tend to be ignored by the rest of the population..but MMOs today are too competitive to not try to get everyone they can get. You end up with a niche game, which is fine, but then it gets updated less, because it’s a niche game. It becomes a vicious circle.

I guarantee you that the games I’d like the most would end up going out of business. There must be a balance between getting enough new players across the gate to play the game and stay with it and catering to those who like the game for other reasons.

And you know, the NPE has tipped the balance a bit too much in their favor. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t agree with that.

But you know, having a bunch of people running around the open world, who never do dungeons or triple threat isn’t particularly negatively affecting my game. It is, however, helping to fund my game.

That’s why.

Vayne.8563:

We cater to people for the game to exist and continue. That’s why the average/lowest common denominator has always been catered to. Games that are aimed at only the highest percentage of the population tend to be ignored by the rest of the population..but MMOs today are too competitive to not try to get everyone they can get. You end up with a niche game, which is fine, but then it gets updated less, because it’s a niche game. It becomes a vicious circle.

I guarantee you that the games I’d like the most would end up going out of business. There must be a balance between getting enough new players across the gate to play the game and stay with it and catering to those who like the game for other reasons.

And you know, the NPE has tipped the balance a bit too much in their favor. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t agree with that.

But you know, having a bunch of people running around the open world, who never do dungeons or triple threat isn’t particularly negatively affecting my game. It is, however, helping to fund my game.

That’s why.

Then the lowest common denominators can have their metaphorical pacifiers while the rest of us can level the old way.

It’s not rocket science.

Vayne.8563:

But what I said is on track. There was a guy who came into this thread and said straight out that he read the thread and decided based on what you guys were saying that he isn’t even going to try or give the NPE a look. I told him I wouldn’t judge the entire game based on this thread, or even this and the trait thread.

Uhhh, no. Responding to anyone who criticizes the game with “well I don’t think so, so nyahh!” isn’t staying on track.

Vayne.8563:

I pointed out that a lot of new people who have tried this game have made positive posts about the game over all…which is true. There’s been a lot of positive comments from new people. The comments weren’t about the NPE. The comments were about the game being great. Obviously those people, if they were affected by the NPE don’t even know it.

Well yes. I’m sure you can find someone, somewhere in the world of Tyria who loves the NPE. That’s true of pretty much anything you can think of.

And yet for every positive comment you can find, you can find about 6-7 negative ones. I believe that happened on two of the challenges you gave people yourself.

Vayne.8563:

Not to mention the thousands, and yes there are thousands, of people to whom the NPE isn’t a big deal. I know this because it’s true for dozens of people in my guild and we’re not special snowflakes.

Even if we consider your unverifiable anecdotal evidence valid, somehow I doubt you’ve asked “thousands and thousands” of people what their opinion on the NPE is.

Vayne.8563:

If you think there’s something wrong with telling someone that you believe this reaction is overstated and he should make up his own mind I have nothing left to say to you at all.

Merely your opinion. But don’t worry, I think most of us already figured the last part out long before now.

HandOfKane.5409:

Vayne.8563:

But what I said is on track. There was a guy who came into this thread and said straight out that he read the thread and decided based on what you guys were saying that he isn’t even going to try or give the NPE a look. I told him I wouldn’t judge the entire game based on this thread, or even this and the trait thread.

Uhhh, no. Responding to anyone who criticizes the game with “well I don’t think so, so nyahh!” isn’t staying on track.

Vayne.8563:

I pointed out that a lot of new people who have tried this game have made positive posts about the game over all…which is true. There’s been a lot of positive comments from new people. The comments weren’t about the NPE. The comments were about the game being great. Obviously those people, if they were affected by the NPE don’t even know it.

Well yes. I’m sure you can find someone, somewhere in the world of Tyria who loves the NPE. That’s true of pretty much anything you can think of.

And yet for every positive comment you can find, you can find about 6-7 negative ones. I believe that happened on two of the challenges you gave people yourself.

Vayne.8563:

Not to mention the thousands, and yes there are thousands, of people to whom the NPE isn’t a big deal. I know this because it’s true for dozens of people in my guild and we’re not special snowflakes.

Even if we consider your unverifiable anecdotal evidence valid, somehow I doubt you’ve asked “thousands and thousands” of people what their opinion on the NPE is.

Vayne.8563:

If you think there’s something wrong with telling someone that you believe this reaction is overstated and he should make up his own mind I have nothing left to say to you at all.

Merely your opinion. But don’t worry, I think most of us already figured the last part out long before now.

It’s absolutely my opinion. And yes there are people even in this thread who prefer the NPE. They dont’ post as many times as you do, so they’re not as visible, but you know, there are plenty of people who have posted POSITIVELY since they got the game. They make no mention of the NPE because they don’t know it exists.

That’s a fact.

My thoughts on the NPE are pretty simple.

It’s annoying.

I used to cherish the minimalist aesthetic that existed. Hearts used to be completed and things just happened. I knew where to go and I moved. Now for every little thing, there’s some bouncy icon demanding attention and taking me away from the game. Another good example, I was in LA and there’s some POIs lit up and demanding my attention. Or how about the healing skill telling me when to use it. Really? I feel like there should be some toggle on this.

IMO, this game had a lot of polish up until this and the trait update. Both are unnecessary. Hopefully that can be changed soon.

Vayne.8563:

It’s absolutely my opinion. And yes there are people even in this thread who prefer the NPE.

Yes, the count is like what, 48-235 now? They’ve still got a lot of catching up to do.

Vayne.8563:

They dont’ post as many times as you do, so they’re not as visible, but you know, there are plenty of people who have posted POSITIVELY since they got the game. They make no mention of the NPE because they don’t know it exists.

That’s a fact.

Apathy <> agreement.

Hmmm, where to start lol. NPE made me feel like I was 6 all over again with all that hand holding and all the flashies (too bad it didn’t take my cynicism and jadedness away too ;P).

So as I veteran player, I didn’t like it. And for a new player to GW2, I still had to explain some things. And that quest arrow was acting up too. Overall implementation is a bit clunky, with some seemingly missing info – I feel it could do with some more design work, maybe also some Usability testing by people that haven’t played MMO’s before (if that’s indeed their target audience)?

Ja, that quest arrow… It really doesn’t help when someone has min patience and gets lost easily when the arrow itself is confused.

Truth be told, I couldn’t take it anymore so used one of the birthday scrolls and just helped out when she died, got lost, or stuck lol – I also realised we’re going to have to grind areas out WoW style before moving forward. It’s limiting for me but fine if you never knew I guess. Mainly have to do it so you don’t get owned as a lvl 9 trying to kill 11’s or the like lol.

For the record, I kept my mouth shut and didn’t poison hahaha. The main thing is she’s enjoying herself which is great as it means I don’t have to ‘watch’ Sex in the City (again) ;D . I really did have to restrain myself though when she picked an Ele haha.

Still need to get to traits though, but will shush and cross that bridge when we get there.

EDIT: Regarding catering to the lowest common denominator… Fine, hold some hands and show people how to play, but test it out first so it’s done/designed/implemented properly, and include an opt in/out – that way you also don’t insult the people that know whats going on by treating everyone like they’ve never played a PC game before.

HandOfKane.5409:

Vayne.8563:

It’s absolutely my opinion. And yes there are people even in this thread who prefer the NPE.

Yes, the count is like what, 48-235 now? They’ve still got a lot of catching up to do.

Vayne.8563:

They dont’ post as many times as you do, so they’re not as visible, but you know, there are plenty of people who have posted POSITIVELY since they got the game. They make no mention of the NPE because they don’t know it exists.

That’s a fact.

Apathy <> agreement.

You can’t really be apathetic about something you don’t know exists. They’re new to the game and like the game. That means that NPE isn’t turning them off to the game. I’m not sure what definition of apathy you’re using but it sure don’t seem to fit.

Cherine.3184:

Fine, hold some hands and show people how to play, but test it out first so it’s done/designed/implemented properly, and include an opt in/out

Yes, please, thank you.

It’s just want most of us want (at least what appears to be the case in this thread). Cater who wants to be catered, and leave the rest of us to play as it was.

Vayne.8563:

You can’t really be apathetic about something you don’t know exists. They’re new to the game and like the game. That means that NPE isn’t turning them off to the game. I’m not sure what definition of apathy you’re using but it sure don’t seem to fit.

Yes, people affected by the NPE have no idea what it is. That makes perfect sense.

Fine then. Ignorance or apathy <> agreement. Satisfied?

So when are you planning to actually post something on the topic at hand, rather than splitting hairs over semantics?

HandOfKane.5409:

Vayne.8563:

You can’t really be apathetic about something you don’t know exists. They’re new to the game and like the game. That means that NPE isn’t turning them off to the game. I’m not sure what definition of apathy you’re using but it sure don’t seem to fit.

Yes, people affected by the NPE have no idea what it is. That makes perfect sense.

Fine then. Ignorance or apathy <> agreement. Satisfied?

So when are you planning to actually post something on the topic at hand, rather than splitting hairs over semantics?

It seems to me you’re intentionally ignoring very valid points that have NOTHING to do with semantics. I’ll try again.

The NEW PLAYER experience seems to be accepted by at least some new players. How is that not on topic?

Edit: And thank the heavens you’re not an ambassador for the game. In a short time you’ve managed to call those new players ignorant and apathetic. Perhaps you’d be happier if there were no new players.

Vayne.8563:

It seems to me you’re intentionally ignoring very valid points that have NOTHING to do with semantics. I’ll try again.

What valid points? You’ve said nearly literally nothing except “I disagree with you, so you’re wrong” and “I’m right because I say so” in every single post you’ve made.

You know, you could have just said from the start that you have nothing on topic to say, rather than force us to waste several posts debating over who said what.

Vayne.8563:

The NEW PLAYER experience seems to be accepted by at least some new players. How is that not on topic?

Already answered that twice:

HandOfKane.5409:

Well yes. I’m sure you can find someone, somewhere in the world of Tyria who loves the NPE. That’s true of pretty much anything you can think of.

And yet for every positive comment you can find, you can find about 6-7 negative ones. I believe that happened on two of the challenges you gave people yourself.

HandOfKane.5409:

Then the lowest common denominators can have their metaphorical pacifiers while the rest of us can level the old way.

It’s not rocket science.

And saying “the forum posters that disagree with me don’t know what they’re talking about!!!” whenever someone criticizes the NPE is not “on topic.” I believe that was the point shadow was making that flew right over your head.

Oh, and as of now it’s not “new player,” it’s “new character, as someone correctly pointed out.”

Vayne.8563:

Edit: And thank the heavens you’re not an ambassador for the game. In a short time you’ve managed to call those new players ignorant and apathetic. Perhaps you’d be happier if there were no new players.

Your mind reading skills need some work. Also you seem to be implying that every new player in the game is completely clueless about the NPE. Perhaps you should take your own advice.

HandOfKane.5409:

Vayne.8563:

It seems to me you’re intentionally ignoring very valid points that have NOTHING to do with semantics. I’ll try again.

What valid points? You’ve said nothing except “I disagree with you, so you’re wrong” and “I’m right because I say so” in almost literally every single post you’ve made.

You know, you could have just said from the start that you have nothing on topic to say, rather than force us to waste several posts debating over who said what.

Vayne.8563:

The NEW PLAYER experience seems to be accepted by at least some new players. How is that not on topic?

Already answered that twice:

HandOfKane.5409:

Well yes. I’m sure you can find someone, somewhere in the world of Tyria who loves the NPE. That’s true of pretty much anything you can think of.

And yet for every positive comment you can find, you can find about 6-7 negative ones. I believe that happened on two of the challenges you gave people yourself.

HandOfKane.5409:

Then the lowest common denominators can have their metaphorical pacifiers while the rest of us can level the old way.

It’s not rocket science.

Oh, and as of now it’s not “new player,” it’s “new character, as someone correctly pointed out.”

Vayne.8563:

Edit: And thank the heavens you’re not an ambassador for the game. In a short time you’ve managed to call those new players ignorant and apathetic. Perhaps you’d be happier if there were no new players.

Your mind reading skills need some work. Also you seem to be implying that every new player in the game is completely clueless about the NPE. Perhaps you should take your own advice.

And once again, I’ll just leave this here. Because you’re clearly just trying to argue.

The biggest point being when this thread started with was a boatload of misinformation, a boatload of comments by people who never tried the NPE and after that Anet made changes to the NPE. After those changes the dissatisfaction seemed to fall away for a lot of people and in my mind most people.

New people came and seem to enjoy the game too.

The NPE wasn’t made for people playing the game for two years. It was made for new people to try to get better retention. Unless you know for a fact it’s not doing that, all you have is your two year old opinion.

I have my opinion too and it doesn’t matter that much because the NPE wasn’t made for me either.

I won’t be responding to you again, so have fun getting the last word.

Actually the NPE was made for new players and ceterans alike. Perhaps it was originally inspired by a desire for new player retention but a decision was made for it to target veterans as well.

Had an option to toggle it off for vets been included this would be a different matter but, as it stands now, the only option to avoid it is to skip the early levels..

Ashen.2907:

Actually the NPE was made for new players and ceterans alike. Perhaps it was originally inspired by a desire for new player retention but a decision was made for it to target veterans as well.

Had an option to toggle it off for vets been included this would be a different matter but, as it stands now, the only option to avoid it is to skip the early levels..

If it was fueled by a desire of player retention, then it was a very poor job. No consideration whatsoever for anyone that bought the game.

Instead of implementing a sorry excuse of a lunar festival (I say this for two reasons: almost nothing was added; the dragon ball arena is soooo laggy) they would have spent time and resources in a much better and efficiently patching this as soon as possible.

Preferably before the expansion…

Ashen.2907:

Had an option to toggle it off for vets been included this would be a different matter but, as it stands now, the only option to avoid it is to skip the early levels..

Not even that works completely…you’d still have to deal with dancing for the cows, the “stat slump” (at least until max level), and the “why can’t I see SPs/Vistas” questions, just to name a few.

Vayne.8563:

I won’t be responding to you again, so have fun getting the last word.

This is the what, 4th time you’ve said that? And yet you keep coming back. Funny.

Still, since it’s so hard for you to stay on topic, that’s probably for the best.

The rest of your post was already responded to multiple times in the last several pages. You can read them, no need for me to repost it again.

Ashendale.2165:

Cherine.3184:

Fine, hold some hands and show people how to play, but test it out first so it’s done/designed/implemented properly, and include an opt in/out

Yes, please, thank you.

It’s just want most of us want (at least what appears to be the case in this thread). Cater who wants to be catered, and leave the rest of us to play as it was.

Yes devs, please? Is it that hard? This all could have been avoided if such thing was implemented from start. Again.. not everyone is equal then don’t put everyone on same plate.

Ashendale.2165:

Ashen.2907:

Actually the NPE was made for new players and ceterans alike. Perhaps it was originally inspired by a desire for new player retention but a decision was made for it to target veterans as well.

Had an option to toggle it off for vets been included this would be a different matter but, as it stands now, the only option to avoid it is to skip the early levels..

If it was fueled by a desire of player retention, then it was a very poor job. No consideration whatsoever for anyone that bought the game.

Instead of implementing a sorry excuse of a lunar festival (I say this for two reasons: almost nothing was added; the dragon ball arena is soooo laggy) they would have spent time and resources in a much better and efficiently patching this as soon as possible.

Preferably before the expansion…

What can I say more… and yeah I agree with the thing about the festival.. it seemed just a “filler” for some lack of content (having LS chapter for 2 months would be too long huh?)

HandOfKane.5409:

It’s Anet’s new idea of dealing with player concerns: just pretend that they don’t exist. Then all of then will just magically go away!

Though what they tend to forget is that many of the players will go away too. SWTOR learned that the hard way.

Yeah it definitivley feels that way. Even if the critism is reasonable, they won’t lift a finger until they see any RL Ca$h for it. That’s the reason why they “fixed” their previous gem <-> dollar/euro trade system. I wish the kittenstorm here would be just half as as big as the one from that time.

@TOPIC
I just noticed some other opportunities were “new” players arekitten*3d: Your character is struck and you don’t even have skill 2 and 3 at hand (you only get 3 with lvl 19 or sth). How do you expect players to get up on their feet again? You could just kill players under lvl 20 instantly, wouldn’t make that big of a difference.

Gods, this so DUMB. The more I look on this crap System the more I see the work of a lobotomized monkey….

Sorry for the rage here, but that ignorance from ArenaNet kittenes me off.

NPE was probably the result from NCSoft eyeing China release. Someone probably feverishly measured the minute of stay by new Chinese players, and decided NPE would help the Chinese players who are used to mmorpgs with reward pop-up windows.

But 4th quarter GW2 revenue actually dropped despite China release.

What actually happened in 4th quarter that caused the revenue to drop despite China release?

NPE was introduced near the start of the quarter.

Does NCSoft or ANet really have an idea why revenue dropped?

I was one of the players that was oblivious at the time. I was playing my high level characters while my bud was complaining bitterly about NPE. He then quit entirely.

Little did I know how I would change my mind once I actually experienced it. Yes, being treated like a 6-year-old, being told, “You can’t go to the park because you’re only 6-years old.”

From 4th quarter revenue data, do Chinese players seem to be impressed?

I’m actually playing new toons happily now. When life hands me a lemon, I tend to make lemon juice. As much as I hate NPE, I made a game out of the reward window, which used to get me angry. Now I’m actually happy looking at it as it pops.

Secret is: I now play new alts with a specific tiny challenge mode. I would not buy any gear nor craft any, simply using the reward window items as my only upgrade in gear.

I happily walk around, treating this NPE as a new challenge for me to level up while no longer buying any gear.

Whereas in the past I had dropped a lot of $ into gem exchange for gold to support farmers because I don’t have time to grind. To me, the business model of a FTP game is based on having both farmers and real players co-exist.

We who trade for gold with gems are supporting farmers. In fact I don’t mind at all to support farmers. To me, they played next to me in GW2 and I did not have to compete against them because all nodes were shared, etc., all excellent measures by ANet. I never held a grudge toward farmers at all. In fact, I encouraged my best bud to play as a farmer. He’s handicapped, has a ton of time to play and very little income.

But now?… more and more I see this game is heading toward financial failure. Even my bud, who has very little money, is no longer playing this game.

While NCSoft may be going over spreadsheets that showed potential earnings with their measures— what they did not measure is how much revenue they stood losing.

Players like me, who used to see it as my mission to support farmers in this game because 1) They are not all heartless. Many are nice people. 2) They can help populate the zones, and as we do dynamic events, etc, we couldn’t tell who were the farmers anyway.

Now though, I’m starting to see I was wrong, as I wander around, I can spot massive organized farmers who would not lift a finger to rez someone not in their organization. Oops so many stories to tell, and I don’t want to go off topic. So let me wrap this up:

NPE failed in its purpose of generating revenue. Instead, it potentially created a loss in revenue in 4th quarter.

Sorry to say, it’s making me see NCSoft in the same light I had always held. I would never buy its stocks. There are probably others out there like me. So, here is another failure in NCSoft’s attempt in attracting investors. Some of us are playing this game.

Vayne.8563:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Vayne.8563:

shadow.6174:

Yes, there was a patch that fixed several things. But a big part of it still feels wrong and needs some action. Even after that fixes the system still treats people as having low IQ, things are still dumb and non-sense, it still have too much hand-holding and too much restrictions where it was never needed.

The fix done feels something like when someone holds your hand to help you to cross the street, then you tell them that they are gripping your hand too much and all what they do is only lessen it a very little bit, but still holding it tight as if supposing you aren’t able enough to do it on your own.

But there are people with low IQs. You’re probably a smart guy and smart people don’t realize that most people are average. There’s this thread right now on reddit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2vqowu/new_player_with_some_questions/

This guy is level 15 and doesn’t know what to do. He just doesn’t. Now I’m not saying he’s not intelligent. I’m saying he could be quite smart, but he’s from other games that give you very clear breadcrumb trails. This game doesn’t.

So any help you can give players that aren’t as quick as you are isn’t a bad thing. Frustrated people do leave games.

These changes weren’t meant for you and an experienced player can travel through them very quickly.

That’s why I say that our feedback, saying that we shouldn’t be treated like we’re stupid..well sure, that’s what the most intelligent people would think.

How about we try to be a little more understanding to those that haven’t picked it up so easily.

From someone who advocates a lot about not every game is for everyone please explain why we need to cater to these people. This game was already one of the easiest to pick up and play MMOs on the market. If he can’t get it then I’m pretty sure MMOs aren’t his thing. There is no reason to dumb the game down for someone who most likely won’t be hanging around anyways. There was already a starter area for every race, why not just add to that so its a better tutorial.

We cater to people for the game to exist and continue. That’s why the average/lowest common denominator has always been catered to. Games that are aimed at only the highest percentage of the population tend to be ignored by the rest of the population..but MMOs today are too competitive to not try to get everyone they can get. You end up with a niche game, which is fine, but then it gets updated less, because it’s a niche game. It becomes a vicious circle.

I guarantee you that the games I’d like the most would end up going out of business. There must be a balance between getting enough new players across the gate to play the game and stay with it and catering to those who like the game for other reasons.

And you know, the NPE has tipped the balance a bit too much in their favor. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t agree with that.

But you know, having a bunch of people running around the open world, who never do dungeons or triple threat isn’t particularly negatively affecting my game. It is, however, helping to fund my game.

That’s why.

The only games I liked that went out of business was because they made changes to the core game, kind of like trait changes and the npe, rather than just release more content that the players were asking for. Of course most of those games eventually released some good content but it was too late and the game already had received its bad reputation and still had the changes in place that caused that bad reputation.

There is only one way to keep an MMO going so that a company can keep milking the players for money, and that is to keep churning out content. If you already have a game people like then you should not change it, you should add to it. Of course little QoL things could help also but the npe, traits, and megaserver are not little changes and really need more time spent on refining them or in the case of the npe rolling it back.

I’d like to, once again, air my major issues with the NPE, and share how it continues to impact my gaming.

It introduced another power creep. In both progression CDI threads, one thing that was stated over and over again was that a power creep was unwanted. There were tons of suggestions for other systems of progression, but it was nearly unanimous that adding power imbalances to the game wasn’t a really fun option.

It takes things away in order to make leveling seem more rewarding when it sparingly doles them back out. Pushing early game progression to end-game isn’t an acceptable substitute for end game. And, frankly, it’s unnecessary, given the successes you’ve had in Dry Top and Silverwastes.

It was the final nail in the leveling coffin, for me. I just got a second character from level 1-80 since last April’s feature patch (first since the NPE), and I used at least 50 tomes to do it. I want to be able to play my characters, not grind to get to a level that I can. I really cannot emphasize enough how much of a selling point this was to me, when I bought the game.

You can say it only effects the first twenty levels until you’re blue in the face, but it’s effected way more than that, for me.

Guhracie.3419:

I’d like to, once again, air my major issues with the NPE, and share how it continues to impact my gaming.

It introduced another power creep. In both progression CDI threads, one thing that was stated over and over again was that a power creep was unwanted. There were tons of suggestions for other systems of progression, but it was nearly unanimous that adding power imbalances to the game wasn’t a really fun option.

Snip

Power creep? I must be missing something. How does the New Player Experience cause level 80s to be stronger?

For me the worst part of the NPE is the trait system, according to Anet it should encourage new players to go to locations and explore or just buy the traits, but some of them are WvW which some of us dislike (what about the wvw players who doesn’t want to do pve stuff) some under broken events and some under level gating, the other option is to buy it, but 10 silver +2 skill point for a low adept trait, 50 silver and 5 skill points for the master trait, 1.5g and 10 skill point for grand master, 3g and 20 for the new one (under grand master). all of this sum up in a very pricey price tag that require a huge amount of grinding and prevent experimentation. one of the greatest points of the old trait system was the ability to have all traits for an affordable cost, does Anet really think that a new player can afford it?

Astral Projections.7320:

Guhracie.3419:

I’d like to, once again, air my major issues with the NPE, and share how it continues to impact my gaming.

It introduced another power creep. In both progression CDI threads, one thing that was stated over and over again was that a power creep was unwanted. There were tons of suggestions for other systems of progression, but it was nearly unanimous that adding power imbalances to the game wasn’t a really fun option.

Snip

Power creep? I must be missing something. How does the New Player Experience cause level 80s to be stronger?

By doling out skills in small chunks, and later in the experience. I thought that would be fairly obvious.

EDIT: I’m using Nike’s infamous “Moa test” from the CDI threads. If at level 80, you can kill a moa faster than you could at level 1, that’s a power creep.

Guhracie.3419:

I want to be able to play my characters, not grind to get to a level that I can. I really cannot emphasize enough how much of a selling point this was to me, when I bought the game.

You can say it only effects the first twenty levels until you’re blue in the face, but it’s effected way more than that, for me.

+10 to this. I can’t get why we have to level up as fast as we can… I enjoyed my leveling process pre-NPE.

Astral Projections.7320:

Power creep? I must be missing something. How does the New Player Experience cause level 80s to be stronger?

I don’t think they meant exactly that 80s are too strong or something, but about giving it in chunks that makes you feel “a lot stronger” than 1 level below would be.

Guhracie.3419:

Astral Projections.7320:

Guhracie.3419:

I’d like to, once again, air my major issues with the NPE, and share how it continues to impact my gaming.

It introduced another power creep. In both progression CDI threads, one thing that was stated over and over again was that a power creep was unwanted. There were tons of suggestions for other systems of progression, but it was nearly unanimous that adding power imbalances to the game wasn’t a really fun option.

Snip

Power creep? I must be missing something. How does the New Player Experience cause level 80s to be stronger?

By doling out skills in small chunks, and later in the experience. I thought that would be fairly obvious.

EDIT: I’m using Nike’s infamous “Moa test” from the CDI threads. If at level 80, you can kill a moa faster than you could at level 1, that’s a power creep.

Hmmm. Power creep is a term in MMOs that mean successive expansions/content of a game have increased levels and more powerful gear, such as WoW’s player’s need to get better gear with each new expansion, causing old content and maps to become outdated and too easy to play in. For example, dungeons that originally required a full team become so easy with the player’s increase in power that they become soloable. The traditional meaning has nothing to do with how skills are handed out while leveling.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/11/06/the-soapbox-the-problem-with-power-creep-and-progression/

Vayne.8563:

The NPE wasn’t made for people playing the game for two years.

That’s exactly what the complaints here have been about. The NPE wasn’t made for everyone. So why should everyone have to play it?

I suppose some people do like the NPE. Okay. I don’t want to take it away from them. But I don’t like it. While it does look largely the same when you hit 80, it’s still not the game I paid for. I want the option to have it back.

By the way, Vayne, I have to ask. Please don’t take this as antagonistic in any way. If we all had the option to play without the NPE, would you take it?

BlueOcean.5380:

NPE was probably the result from NCSoft eyeing China release. Someone probably feverishly measured the minute of stay by new Chinese players, and decided NPE would help the Chinese players who are used to mmorpgs with reward pop-up windows.

But 4th quarter GW2 revenue actually dropped despite China release.

What actually happened in 4th quarter that caused the revenue to drop despite China release?

NPE was introduced near the start of the quarter.

Does NCSoft or ANet really have an idea why revenue dropped?

This is a common misconception. The revenue the dropped has nothing at all to do with the China launch, because on the report, China sales all fall under royalties. It’s made by another company for China (which is one of the laws that China has, it has to be made by a Chinese company) and then NcSoft gets the royalties. To know if income went up or down you’d have to be able to filter out those royalties and add them to the income. It’s very likely that the income went up. The income not linked to China did go down, which should be expected in a game that is two years old with no expansion.

Posts deleted. Never should have answered Vayne on this tangent. ;p

BlueOcean.5380:

Vayne.8563:

This is a common misconception. The revenue the dropped has nothing at all to do with the China launch, because on the report, China sales all fall under royalties. It’s made by another company for China (which is one of the laws that China has, it has to be made by a Chinese company) and then NcSoft gets the royalties. To know if income went up or down you’d have to be able to filter out those royalties and add them to the income. It’s very likely that the income went up. The income not linked to China did go down, which should be expected in a game that is two years old with no expansion.

I do know about overseas royalty. If you read NCSoft report carefully, the report shows signs of hiding an embarrassment.

Hiding embarrassment? You have to be kidding me. Anet was quite clear that Guild Wars 2 met expectations and that both Wildstar and Guild Wars 2 sales in China were below expectation. The report is a standard form.

What exactly did they do to hide something?

BlueOcean.5380:

Vayne.8563:

Anet was quite clear that Guild Wars 2 met expectations and that both Wildstar and Guild Wars 2 sales in China were below expectation.

I analyze NCSoft report, not what ANet says. And yes I gathered from NCSoft report GW2 in China was below expectation. The wording NCSoft tried to use in its report was to me an attempt to hide that GW2 in China was below expectations. So you and I are saying the same thing.

No we’re not. It’s not trying to hide anything at all, because there’s no reason to hide it if they stated it directly. They said, out loud, that the sales were below expectations. How exactly do you believe they’re trying to hide it?

Vayne.8563:

BlueOcean.5380:

NPE was probably the result from NCSoft eyeing China release. Someone probably feverishly measured the minute of stay by new Chinese players, and decided NPE would help the Chinese players who are used to mmorpgs with reward pop-up windows.

But 4th quarter GW2 revenue actually dropped despite China release.

What actually happened in 4th quarter that caused the revenue to drop despite China release?

NPE was introduced near the start of the quarter.

Does NCSoft or ANet really have an idea why revenue dropped?

This is a common misconception. The revenue the dropped has nothing at all to do with the China launch, because on the report, China sales all fall under royalties. [..]

(highlight is mine)

Once again not reading it properly… they weren’t saying that revenue drop has to do with China launch. Read it again: “But 4th quarter GW2 revenue actually dropped despite China release. What actually happened in 4th quarter that caused the revenue to drop despite China release? NPE was introduced near the start of the quarter.” If I did read it right.. despite… in other words they seem to mean “what dropped revenue even though they had China launch” or “what happened at the same time of China launch that caused revenue drop”. BlueOcean, let me know if it was me who misunderstood it.

BlueOcean.5380:

Vayne.8563:

They said, out loud, that the sales were below expectations. How exactly do you believe they’re trying to hide it?

The “they” you are talking about is ANet. I already told you I was analyzing NCSoft report. Did I ever say “ANet” is trying to hide it? IMHO if you heard ANet sayng it “fell below expectations”, then ANet is more honest than NCSoft.

If you do not understand, my main point was I wish NCSoft or ANet would analyze why the launch in China did not “meet expectation” despite NPE.

Perhaps skin-deep measures such as NPE actually caused a problem. In the long run, a good product will stand out.

The only time I considered buying NCSoft stock was when GW2 first began, and it was an innovation. The whole “manifesto” that many players rallied behind. Back then I was tempted to buy, but decided to wait a year or two. Then … sorry atm there is no way I will buy the stock.

The vision is gone. Investors are looking for the next Apple. Something that has a vision, and great implementation, and QA.

If you think NPE will get me to buy NCSoft stock… I have a bridge to sell you.

No sir. NcSoft said that china sales didn’t expectations. They said it because they have to say it. Hiding things like that for a public company is bad and is seldomly done, particularly by big companies. They can get in huge trouble for hiding stuff that affects stock prices.

You’re making the assumption that the China launch was greatly affected by the NPC, but there was a lot of bad publicity for the game in China due to stuff that happened with the game pre launch that had nothing at all to do with the NPE.

The bottom line is the report didn’t try to hide anything because NCsoft said that sales didn’t meet expectations. It’s a standard form.

Now why would NcSoft try to hide how badly China did if they were telling investors the game didn’t meet expectations?

Thanks Shadow. I don’t really like to argue semantics, which Vayne seems to like to do.

Hopefully my post just prior to yours explains my view. To me, GW2 can be to mmorpgs what Iphone was to the cell phone industry.

NPE to me is just one of the things happening that is detrimental to the original Anet vision.

It’s not too late yet, but it will take a lot of work. Good luck to ANet.

BlueOcean.5380:

Vayne.8563:

Anet was quite clear that Guild Wars 2 met expectations and that both Wildstar and Guild Wars 2 sales in China were below expectation.

Then, as I informed you that you were talking about Anet, you said:

No sir. NcSoft said that china sales didn’t expectations.

Sorry I’m done talking wit you, sir. It really does not matter to me. If you say so, go ahead and have a good day. Threads should not be like this. I have very little patience to waste my time and other people’s time.

I made a typo. If you researched what you said you’d know that NcSoft told investors that Guild Wars 2 in China didn’t meet expectations. Sorry I don’t type everything perfectly the first time around at midnight.

In fact, I’m not really sorry. It’s obvious you don’t have a clue how public companies work. Do you have any idea what happens to public companies that try to hide losses to investors?