Guild Wars 2

Shaaba.5672:

Have a new guardian and I’m doing the last heart for map completion in the beginning zone. I get downed, but think, np – There’s not much health left on this guy, I’m a guardian – I got this. Except not really. I don’t have my downed skill 3 opened up yet and I get really really close, but ultimately die. At level 17 I still don’t have all my downed skills unlocked? That’s just … not right.

Of course not. At level 17 you’re still to dumb to have access to 2 out 3 possible skills on your downed state (not counting 4th skill; I have no idea why not lock that one too. It’s not like you need to be alive to play the game how you want). It’s too overwhelming, I tell you. You just got access to weapon swapping, so more skills will make your brain melt or something.

Why not lock the whole game until 80? Skills, traits, personal story… Everything. That way we can say it’s truly an NCSoft game. Grind away.

Edit: I went to check, since I refuse to level anything with this new system, I had no idea. Apparently, you only get skill number 3 at level 22. Underwater skill 5 is only at 23, when before I could get it… Well, by playing the game…

I’m sorry, kind of double post here.

So now I’m paying attention to the level unlocks on the wiki. I have the urge to delete the game from my computer. No expansion for me like this.

I won’t go into details, but… Fine grade salvage kits only at level 44? Are you people serious? What kind of dumb person allows this? Have you considered not having a bunch of yes-men around you? I recommend pulling a Hemingway. The game is now a long, boring and forceful tutorial up to level 23. I did not pay for this kind of shabby treatment.

Guhracie.3419:

Vayne.8563:

Here’s a post on reddit where someone asked new players how they feel about the leveling experience. Most of the responses are overwhelmingly positive.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2yhpai/new_players_how_is_the_leveling_experience/

It’s interesting to me, Vayne, that you’re perfectly willing to accept anecdotal evidence when it supports your theories.

Well, no I’m not accepting anecdotal evidence at all. The fact is your opinion or anyone’s opinion of the NPE is just that…their opinion. And opinions can’t be wrong.

But this forum would have you believe that NO ONE likes the NPE. That thread proves that at least some people do like the NPE. That’s not annecdotal evidence because it’s an opinion not a fact. If someone says they like something they don’t have to prove it. That’s ridiculous.

So that thread shows that it’s not as cut and dried as some people are trying to make it.

And being that the NPE was created for new players and not for us, I’d say that Anet, though they went overboard, did accomplish at least some of what they wanted to do with it.

Your attempts to discredit me would make more sense if we were talking about a fact.

Ashendale.2165:

I’m sorry, kind of double post here.

So now I’m paying attention to the level unlocks on the wiki. I have the urge to delete the game from my computer. No expansion for me like this.

I won’t go into details, but… Fine grade salvage kits only at level 44? Are you people serious? What kind of dumb person allows this? Have you considered not having a bunch of yes-men around you? I recommend pulling a Hemingway. The game is now a long, boring and forceful tutorial up to level 23. I did not pay for this kind of shabby treatment.

You can buy fine grade salvage kits at level 2. The wiki isn’t listing unlocks. It’s listening when you’re told about stuff. That’s all.

In the old system you weren’t told about them at all. But they don’t unlock at that level. They’re not locked at all.

I think people need to stop spreading misinformation.

Most of the things on that list aren’t locked at all.

Vayne.8563:

Ashendale.2165:

I’m sorry, kind of double post here.

So now I’m paying attention to the level unlocks on the wiki. I have the urge to delete the game from my computer. No expansion for me like this.

I won’t go into details, but… Fine grade salvage kits only at level 44? Are you people serious? What kind of dumb person allows this? Have you considered not having a bunch of yes-men around you? I recommend pulling a Hemingway. The game is now a long, boring and forceful tutorial up to level 23. I did not pay for this kind of shabby treatment.

You can buy fine grade salvage kits at level 2. The wiki isn’t listing unlocks. It’s listening when you’re told about stuff. That’s all.

In the old system you weren’t told about them at all. But they don’t unlock at that level. They’re not locked at all.

I think people need to stop spreading misinformation.

Most of the things on that list aren’t locked at all.

Well goalie Vayne, ever stop to think why it’s an issue now?

Paul.4081:

Vayne.8563:

Ashendale.2165:

I’m sorry, kind of double post here.

So now I’m paying attention to the level unlocks on the wiki. I have the urge to delete the game from my computer. No expansion for me like this.

I won’t go into details, but… Fine grade salvage kits only at level 44? Are you people serious? What kind of dumb person allows this? Have you considered not having a bunch of yes-men around you? I recommend pulling a Hemingway. The game is now a long, boring and forceful tutorial up to level 23. I did not pay for this kind of shabby treatment.

You can buy fine grade salvage kits at level 2. The wiki isn’t listing unlocks. It’s listening when you’re told about stuff. That’s all.

In the old system you weren’t told about them at all. But they don’t unlock at that level. They’re not locked at all.

I think people need to stop spreading misinformation.

Most of the things on that list aren’t locked at all.

Well goalie Vayne, ever stop to think why it’s an issue now?

It’s not an issue now, except people continue to not understand something and talk about it as if they do. Simply put, leveling up gives you information you might not have known. Why anyone would assume they’re locked out of it before then is beyond me.

Vayne.8563:

Paul.4081:

Vayne.8563:

Ashendale.2165:

I’m sorry, kind of double post here.

So now I’m paying attention to the level unlocks on the wiki. I have the urge to delete the game from my computer. No expansion for me like this.

I won’t go into details, but… Fine grade salvage kits only at level 44? Are you people serious? What kind of dumb person allows this? Have you considered not having a bunch of yes-men around you? I recommend pulling a Hemingway. The game is now a long, boring and forceful tutorial up to level 23. I did not pay for this kind of shabby treatment.

You can buy fine grade salvage kits at level 2. The wiki isn’t listing unlocks. It’s listening when you’re told about stuff. That’s all.

In the old system you weren’t told about them at all. But they don’t unlock at that level. They’re not locked at all.

I think people need to stop spreading misinformation.

Most of the things on that list aren’t locked at all.

Well goalie Vayne, ever stop to think why it’s an issue now?

It’s not an issue now, except people continue to not understand something and talk about it as if they do. Simply put, leveling up gives you information you might not have known. Why anyone would assume they’re locked out of it before then is beyond me.

Vayne, your better than this, this guff was available when we created toons in gw2 kitten

Vayne.8563:

But this forum would have you believe that NO ONE likes the NPE. That thread proves that at least some people do like the NPE. That’s not annecdotal evidence because it’s an opinion not a fact. If someone says they like something they don’t have to prove it. That’s ridiculous.

Yes, like 50 likes vs 240 dislikes in this thread. This count isn’t looking good for you.

HandOfKane.5409:

Vayne.8563:

But this forum would have you believe that NO ONE likes the NPE. That thread proves that at least some people do like the NPE. That’s not annecdotal evidence because it’s an opinion not a fact. If someone says they like something they don’t have to prove it. That’s ridiculous.

Yes, like 50 likes vs 240 dislikes. This count isn’t looking good for you.

However, this thread is primarily veterans complaining about the NPE, not new people making their way to the forums to post. While it’s possible that the new players dislike it at the same % as veterans, it’s not possible to use post count of positive/negative on this thread to tell.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

HandOfKane.5409:

Vayne.8563:

But this forum would have you believe that NO ONE likes the NPE. That thread proves that at least some people do like the NPE. That’s not annecdotal evidence because it’s an opinion not a fact. If someone says they like something they don’t have to prove it. That’s ridiculous.

Yes, like 50 likes vs 240 dislikes. This count isn’t looking good for you.

However, this thread is primarily veterans complaining about the NPE, not new people making their way to the forums to post. While it’s possible that the new players dislike it at the same % as veterans, it’s not possible to use post count of positive/negative on this thread to tell.

I don’t bother arguing with Hand of Kane anymore because he ignores facts, such as the fact that many of those complaints occurred before the NPE had changes made to it and some people made peace with it after that. And he ignores the misinformation or the people who judged it without trying it.

So there’s zero reason to argue with him.

Vayne.8563:

No one left the NPE in masses. He’s a quote about the Star Wars NGE, so people won’t be misled by this nonsense. It’s from this article.

“http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/26/a-star-wars-galaxies-history-lesson-from-launch-to-the-nge-5/”

“Almost every system in the game – from combat to crafting, all the way through to classes – was fundamentally shaken by this patch. The NGE took what had been a skill-building character advancement system and transformed it into a level-based system with very specific classes. One of these classes was even the Jedi, meaning that players could create force-using characters from the very start. No more holo-grinding.”

Now the trait system, which was NOT part of the NPE and not released with the NPE did affect unlocking traits in the whole game, but combat hasn’t fundamentally changed here. The professions at 80 haven’t fundamentally changed here. The leveling rewards surely don’t kill the game.

No, saying this is like the Star Wars NPE is completely 100% disingenuous. These aren’t for the most part far-reaching changes and MOST of them don’t kick in on the second character you level.

Once you level your first character you can get skill points right away, you see vistas right away and yes, you can easily go into PvP right away through the crossed swords.

90% of the affects on your first character.

I can’t help it if many people lump the trait changes into the NPE and the trait changes are going away anyway.

And yes, lots and lots of people left Star Wars Galaxies over the NGE and everyone knew it. I’ve been playing this game since the feature patch and I don’t believe there was a significant drop in population.

There was a single casualty from my guild who came back when Anet made those first round of changes. I’m sure that there are people who left, but there was no mad race away from this game.

In my mind the trait system is far worse than NPE which large does affect only lower levels and largely goes away after you level one character through it.

That was NEVER true of the NGE.

No…he was saying that the effect of the changes on the game, the backlash, the developer reasoning behind the changes (to maximize the player base at all costs, despite the game having a respectable and decent number of players already), and the developer response afterwards (pretend that the complaints about the changes don’t exist, so that everyone will just get tired and go away) were the same as the NGE, not that every change between the NGE and the NPE was literally the same.

Vayne.8563:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

HandOfKane.5409:

Vayne.8563:

But this forum would have you believe that NO ONE likes the NPE. That thread proves that at least some people do like the NPE. That’s not annecdotal evidence because it’s an opinion not a fact. If someone says they like something they don’t have to prove it. That’s ridiculous.

Yes, like 50 likes vs 240 dislikes. This count isn’t looking good for you.

However, this thread is primarily veterans complaining about the NPE, not new people making their way to the forums to post. While it’s possible that the new players dislike it at the same % as veterans, it’s not possible to use post count of positive/negative on this thread to tell.

I don’t bother arguing with Hand of Kane anymore because he ignores facts, such as the fact that many of those complaints occurred before the NPE had changes made to it and some people made peace with it after that. And he ignores the misinformation or the people who judged it without trying it.

So there’s zero reason to argue with him.

I’ve leveled 5 chars to level 24 on a new account. Truthfully I didn’t see the big issues and the insult to my intelligence so many speak of. It was mildly annoying to not be able to interact with skillpoints and have to backtrack, but that was the first hour of each chars life and maybe 3 skillpoints. /shrug. The main problem I can see is locking new people out of PvP/WvW who want to do that and don’t know about the workaround. Other than that, I really didn’t see all that much different except I got rewarded for leveling. For some reason, getting free stuff failed to annoy me, even on my 5th char to level 24.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Vayne.8563:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

HandOfKane.5409:

Vayne.8563:

But this forum would have you believe that NO ONE likes the NPE. That thread proves that at least some people do like the NPE. That’s not annecdotal evidence because it’s an opinion not a fact. If someone says they like something they don’t have to prove it. That’s ridiculous.

Yes, like 50 likes vs 240 dislikes. This count isn’t looking good for you.

However, this thread is primarily veterans complaining about the NPE, not new people making their way to the forums to post. While it’s possible that the new players dislike it at the same % as veterans, it’s not possible to use post count of positive/negative on this thread to tell.

I don’t bother arguing with Hand of Kane anymore because he ignores facts, such as the fact that many of those complaints occurred before the NPE had changes made to it and some people made peace with it after that. And he ignores the misinformation or the people who judged it without trying it.

So there’s zero reason to argue with him.

I’ve leveled 5 chars to level 24 on a new account. Truthfully I didn’t see the big issues and the insult to my intelligence so many speak of. It was mildly annoying to not be able to interact with skillpoints and have to backtrack, but that was the first hour of each chars life and maybe 3 skillpoints. /shrug. The main problem I can see is locking new people out of PvP/WvW who want to do that and don’t know about the workaround. Other than that, I really didn’t see all that much different except I got rewarded for leveling. For some reason, getting free stuff failed to annoy me, even on my 5th char to level 24.

It’s not even the first hour of each character’s life, it’s the first hour of your first character’s life, since in the second character, you can get skill points right away.

Vayne.8563:

I don’t bother arguing with Hand of Kane anymore because he ignores facts, such as the fact that many of those complaints occurred before the NPE had changes made to it and some people made peace with it after that. And he ignores the misinformation or the people who judged it without trying it.

So there’s zero reason to argue with him.

Translation: I can’t answer any of his points, so he’s a poopyhead!

Wow, you sure showed me. Nice job poisoning the well too.

Also, your point was already answered here and further down. You can read it. The number of people who “made peace” after the 9/16 patch are a small minority of the detractors.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

I’ve leveled 5 chars to level 24 on a new account. Truthfully I didn’t see the big issues and the insult to my intelligence so many speak of. It was mildly annoying to not be able to interact with skillpoints and have to backtrack, but that was the first hour of each chars life and maybe 3 skillpoints. /shrug. The main problem I can see is locking new people out of PvP/WvW who want to do that and don’t know about the workaround. Other than that, I really didn’t see all that much different except I got rewarded for leveling. For some reason, getting free stuff failed to annoy me, even on my 5th char to level 24.

While free stuff is nice it is almost like anet was trying to convince themselves that certain stat set are good (by handing them out for free) instead of provide the player with more optional piece to chose stats from.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

However, this thread is primarily veterans complaining about the NPE, not new people making their way to the forums to post. While it’s possible that the new players dislike it at the same % as veterans, it’s not possible to use post count of positive/negative on this thread to tell.

Actually many new players (and returning players) have commented in this thread too.

And that count was originally from a challenge from Vayne stating that the number of people here who support the NPE are almost the same as the number of people who dislike it. The count…ended up not agreeing with him.

And he just said I ignore facts. That’s hilarious, especially coming from someone who is known not to read the posts he responds to.

Vayne.8563:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Vayne.8563:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

HandOfKane.5409:

Vayne.8563:

But this forum would have you believe that NO ONE likes the NPE. That thread proves that at least some people do like the NPE. That’s not annecdotal evidence because it’s an opinion not a fact. If someone says they like something they don’t have to prove it. That’s ridiculous.

Yes, like 50 likes vs 240 dislikes. This count isn’t looking good for you.

However, this thread is primarily veterans complaining about the NPE, not new people making their way to the forums to post. While it’s possible that the new players dislike it at the same % as veterans, it’s not possible to use post count of positive/negative on this thread to tell.

I don’t bother arguing with Hand of Kane anymore because he ignores facts, such as the fact that many of those complaints occurred before the NPE had changes made to it and some people made peace with it after that. And he ignores the misinformation or the people who judged it without trying it.

So there’s zero reason to argue with him.

I’ve leveled 5 chars to level 24 on a new account. Truthfully I didn’t see the big issues and the insult to my intelligence so many speak of. It was mildly annoying to not be able to interact with skillpoints and have to backtrack, but that was the first hour of each chars life and maybe 3 skillpoints. /shrug. The main problem I can see is locking new people out of PvP/WvW who want to do that and don’t know about the workaround. Other than that, I really didn’t see all that much different except I got rewarded for leveling. For some reason, getting free stuff failed to annoy me, even on my 5th char to level 24.

It’s not even the first hour of each character’s life, it’s the first hour of your first character’s life, since in the second character, you can get skill points right away.

It’s been over a month now since they were that level and things start to run together after a while so I could easily be misremembering or confusing it with my second new account, where I had to backtrack for skill points again. At any rate, I don’t remember it being a big deal.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Other than that, I really didn’t see all that much different except I got rewarded for leveling. For some reason, getting free stuff failed to annoy me, even on my 5th char to level 24.

There are things the NPR did right – rewards was one of them. I don’t really see anyone stating they have a problem with that. I do have a problem with how the rewards are delivered, but it’s something that didn’t bother me at first. Essentially I am just plain tired of clicking on things to click on things to click open my reward.

Yes, when you have a choice, we need a pop-up window. However, if we don’t have a choice to make, can the window be less obtrusive? Can we have a way to clear these things that doesn’t involve a click? Give us a way to keybind ‘close window’.

Also something that I’ve seen another talk of is that if you click it and don’t read it all at that moment, or have to get it out of the way because you got attacked by a wandering hylek, there is no way to go back and revisit it. I would welcome a section in the hero panel that lists level rewards, much like the achievement panel list the daily log in rewards. Of course, I want it implemented better than the daily rewards because … ugh, the placement of that was horrible.

Bran.7425:

While free stuff is nice it is almost like anet was trying to convince themselves that certain stat set are good (by handing them out for free) instead of provide the player with more optional piece to chose stats from.

Not to mention the dye reward at level 6, which is always the same three dyes every time. So past the third character, it’s a useless reward.

Agreed – the dye reward is no fun. Why not randomize those dyes instead of getting a preset? I don’t want rare dyes, just a variety so that those three aren’t totally worthless. Spread the love! Make them all worth less!

Bran.7425:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

I’ve leveled 5 chars to level 24 on a new account. Truthfully I didn’t see the big issues and the insult to my intelligence so many speak of. It was mildly annoying to not be able to interact with skillpoints and have to backtrack, but that was the first hour of each chars life and maybe 3 skillpoints. /shrug. The main problem I can see is locking new people out of PvP/WvW who want to do that and don’t know about the workaround. Other than that, I really didn’t see all that much different except I got rewarded for leveling. For some reason, getting free stuff failed to annoy me, even on my 5th char to level 24.

While free stuff is nice it is almost like anet was trying to convince themselves that certain stat set are good (by handing them out for free) instead of provide the player with more optional piece to chose stats from.

iirc, the low level armor doesn’t have a choice of stats. The stats are set for particular level groups and you don’t have a choice.

As to the weapons you get, I was always glad just to get new level appropriate weapons. The stats didn’t really matter because I was leveling so fast I never have one for long and, you have to admit, in PvE maps while leveling stats aren’t that big a deal. Not when people were able to get to level 80 on random green gear since from the very start of the game. Most people don’t worry about stats until they hit 80 and get permanent gear. Getting random gear gives you a chance to try different things and not lock yourself early into a mindset of only certain stats will work for you.

By the way, if you don’t like what ANet gives you, you can always do what you did before they started giving you free stuff.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

By the way, if you don’t like what ANet gives you, you can always do what you did before they started giving you free stuff.

That is true, you can just take the rewards and ignore them if you don’t like them. That’s why you hardly see complaints about people getting free items (as well as the compass which you can turn off).

The same is not the case with the stat slump, dancing for cows, PS gating and newly-introduced plot holes, and weapon skills/underwater combat/profession mechanics/downed state gating, etc. That’s what the whole issue is.

OH – just thought of a way for Anet to reduce the pop-up screens for choices. Mostly when we get gear, it’s a choice between the same piece, different stats. Give us one of those new low-level pieces where we can choose the stats. They are already in game. Boom, one less window to worry about.

Btw, is anyone ever really excited to see one drop? I never am. Unless I’m remembering wrong, can’t salvage or sell them, so I just delete almost immediately as rarely are they useful to me right then (wrong weapon type, not a noticeable upgrade) and it’s not worth the bother to save them for alts.

thefantasticg.3984:

Magoo.5607:

I guess I’m just tired of hand holding in MMOs. Just make a Tutorial that gives you an idea of what is about to occur, one I can skip on alts, and then let us loose to discover it all. Right now I feel forced to unlock things so I can then play.

/shrug

Old way didn’t hold the hand. I much prefer it to the NPE.

I did, but not so much as now. There was a very helpful Help panel and several popup hints every and then, that would show up just when certain new aspects showed up (like getting a mail or reaching a waypoint for first time).

Some hand-holding is always nice, mainly for those who needs it, but the issue here is everyone is forced to have too much hand-holding, even those who don’t need it.

Vayne.8563:

Ashendale.2165:

I’m sorry, kind of double post here.

So now I’m paying attention to the level unlocks on the wiki. I have the urge to delete the game from my computer. No expansion for me like this.

I won’t go into details, but… Fine grade salvage kits only at level 44? Are you people serious? What kind of dumb person allows this? Have you considered not having a bunch of yes-men around you? I recommend pulling a Hemingway. The game is now a long, boring and forceful tutorial up to level 23. I did not pay for this kind of shabby treatment.

You can buy fine grade salvage kits at level 2. The wiki isn’t listing unlocks. It’s listening when you’re told about stuff. That’s all.

In the old system you weren’t told about them at all. But they don’t unlock at that level. They’re not locked at all.

I think people need to stop spreading misinformation.

Most of the things on that list aren’t locked at all.

thats a big problem with the NPE, its messaging is very poor. Its not that people are lying for the sake of lying its that in trying to make thinngs clearer, they made things less clear.
Some things are account unlocks
Some things are charachter unlocks
Some things are just hidden on the map
Some things are told to you in a way that makes people think its unlocks

the system is pretty bad at messaging, and more confusing than not confusing.

HandOfKane.5409:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

By the way, if you don’t like what ANet gives you, you can always do what you did before they started giving you free stuff.

That is true, you can just take the rewards and ignore them if you don’t like them. That’s why you hardly see complaints about people getting free items (as well as the compass which you can turn off).

The same is not the case with the stat slump, dancing for cows, PS gating and newly-introduced plot holes, and weapon skills/underwater combat/profession mechanics/downed state gating, etc. That’s what the whole issue is.

Most of your points are valid and worth pressing ANet to change. But a lot of the complaints I’ve been reading on this thread is not about stat slump or plot holes but complaints on the level of not being able to access skill points on a brand new char on a brand new account in the first hour of the accounts life.

And some of the complaints sound to me like complaints about new stuff because it’s new. 2 examples that make me think this.
1) dancing to cows: no better or worse than bowing and sitting by cows in a higher level heart in the Charr area. This type of complaint makes me think that if it was the opposite, that the game started with dancing to cows and was changed to feeding cows there would have been a storm of complaints about removing flavor in the starter area and how feeding cows is boring and insulting to the players intelligence.
2) weapon skills unlock. I hated unlocking weapon skills the old way. I would painfully unlock the skills and then get a different weapon and be sent back to autoattack, but in a higher area against tougher mobs. Imo, this way is better. I get a new weapon and I’ve got the same number of skills. I’m not reduced to autoattacking again. If they had reversed the order of this, I think there would be complaints about how they have to autoattack again and it’s handholding to send them back to square one. That ANet doesn’t trust them to figure out the new weapon skills by mousing over them.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Ashendale.2165:

I’m sorry, kind of double post here.

So now I’m paying attention to the level unlocks on the wiki. I have the urge to delete the game from my computer. No expansion for me like this.

I won’t go into details, but… Fine grade salvage kits only at level 44? Are you people serious? What kind of dumb person allows this? Have you considered not having a bunch of yes-men around you? I recommend pulling a Hemingway. The game is now a long, boring and forceful tutorial up to level 23. I did not pay for this kind of shabby treatment.

You can buy fine grade salvage kits at level 2. The wiki isn’t listing unlocks. It’s listening when you’re told about stuff. That’s all.

In the old system you weren’t told about them at all. But they don’t unlock at that level. They’re not locked at all.

I think people need to stop spreading misinformation.

Most of the things on that list aren’t locked at all.

thats a big problem with the NPE, its messaging is very poor. Its not that people are lying for the sake of lying its that in trying to make thinngs clearer, they made things less clear.
Some things are account unlocks
Some things are charachter unlocks
Some things are just hidden on the map
Some things are told to you in a way that makes people think its unlocks

the system is pretty bad at messaging, and more confusing than not confusing.

I don’t disagree with this.

But it doesn’t change that fact that there were plenty of people confused before it changed.

One of the biggest issues with this game is the lack of consistency. Different things work differently depending on where you are. In some events with a blue border around them you have to cap the area and in some you just have to defend it. Nothing really explains this to you.

I never said the NPE was perfect. It solved some problems while creating other problems. That doesn’t mean that it should be scrapped. It could be adjusted to solve some of the new problems it created, without going back to the old problems.

But the problem with consistency isn’t an NPE problem. It’s a game wide problem from day one.

Ashendale.2165:

The game is now a long, boring and forceful tutorial up to level 23. I did not pay for this kind of shabby treatment.

Well, I have said something like that before several times…

Vayne.8563:

You can buy fine grade salvage kits at level 2. The wiki isn’t listing unlocks. It’s listening when you’re told about stuff. That’s all.

In the old system you weren’t told about them at all. But they don’t unlock at that level. They’re not locked at all.[sip]

Most of the things on that list aren’t locked at all.

Vayne.8563:

Simply put, leveling up gives you information you might not have known. Why anyone would assume they’re locked out of it before then is beyond me.

That’s right and recently the wiki was changed and states that clearly:

Several systems presented in the level-up guide are not locked out, they can be accessed before the time through other ways (like portals or hotkeys).

However… that’s some improvement but even now it still doesn’t tell about several stuff people might not have known: retrieving loot, interacting with things like chests or doors, managing inventory like depositing all collectibles, wallet, etc.

Shaaba.5672:

There are things the NPR did right – rewards was one of them. I don’t really see anyone stating they have a problem with that. I do have a problem with how the rewards are delivered, [sip]

Yes, when you have a choice, we need a pop-up window. However, if we don’t have a choice to make, can the window be less obtrusive? Can we have a way to clear these things that doesn’t involve a click? Give us a way to keybind ‘close window’.

Yes, NPE isn’t sooo bad, it has some good things and rewards were one of them, although giving “information” as reward don’t make any sense to me and unfortunately some of the bad things overweights the good things. By the way, you can close some of those windows by using Esc if I’m not wrong (not all them though).

Shaaba.5672:

Also something that I’ve seen another talk of is that if you click it and don’t read it all at that moment, or have to get it out of the way because you got attacked by a wandering hylek, there is no way to go back and revisit it. I would welcome a section in the hero panel that lists level rewards, much like the achievement panel list the daily log in rewards

Well, before NPE there was a Help panel where you could see all those info about several game mechanics (it’s still accessible through hotkeys, check your keybind options for Info panel or something).

I think this could describe why some people wouldn’t see the bad things, or not get bothered by them, while others do:

Post on reddit:

Player A: Meh. I grabbed a new account during the sale, it’s really not onerous, and I know what I’m missing.

Player B: “it’s really not onerous”
That’s because even having been butchered, GW2’s New Player Experience is far far better than most.
If something is an 9/10 and is butchered down to a 7~8/10 it is still well above average.

From what I get, even with all the bad things NPE isn’t so bad in someone’s eyes because the beautiful of GW2 still makes it better than others out there. Even so it doesn’t make it to be any better or look as no issues at all.

(yay for flat formatting :P)

I double checked. If you go here http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Level_rewards and drop the 41-50 list, you’ll notice that fine salvage kits unlocks at 43. It is not telling me about it. It is allowing me to use.

While anyone is there, please read the unlocking by level. We had that stuff from level 1.

Ashendale.2165:

I double checked. If you go here http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Level_rewards and drop the 41-50 list, you’ll notice that fine salvage kits unlocks at 43. It is not telling me about it. It is allowing me to use.

While anyone is there, please read the unlocking by level. We had that stuff from level 1.

Then its incorrect. I just purchased and used a fine salvage kit with a level 9 character. The highest level that any character on that account has reached is 30. Looks like part of the problem here is that what is stated officially (however official the wiki is) isn’t right.

zenleto.6179:

Ashendale.2165:

I double checked. If you go here http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Level_rewards and drop the 41-50 list, you’ll notice that fine salvage kits unlocks at 43. It is not telling me about it. It is allowing me to use.

While anyone is there, please read the unlocking by level. We had that stuff from level 1.

Then its incorrect. I just purchased and used a fine salvage kit with a level 9 character. The highest level that any character on that account has reached is 30. Looks like part of the problem here is that what is stated officially (however official the wiki is) isn’t right.

It’s an absolute fact that fine salvage kits aren’t locked out at any level. I suppose you could even test it on a level 1 character if you have banker golem, but I’ve definitely used it on a character that’s under level 10.

Ok well, wiki is maintained by players then even though it’s considered as official it can contain errors. As Ashendale has said, the wiki really says it unlocks at that level:

Unlocks
Ability to use fine salvage kits

However, would be possible to someone confirm that please? I had overhauled that page and I broke it up in columns, maybe that info was put in the wrong column (Unlocks instead Information). In fact, a lot of that page still needs some confirmation.

shadow.6174:

Ok well, wiki is maintained by players then even though it’s considered as official it can contain errors. As Ashendale has said, the wiki really says it unlocks at that level:

Unlocks
Ability to use fine salvage kits

However, would be possible to someone confirm that please? I had overhauled that page and I broke it up in columns, maybe that info was put in the wrong column (Unlocks instead Information). In fact, a lot of that page still needs some confirmation.

I did confirm it. I used a fine salvage kit with a level 9 character. Is my post invisible? That bit of misinformation seems to be the only thing wrong on that chart. I did go through it.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

1) dancing to cows: no better or worse than bowing and sitting by cows in a higher level heart in the Charr area. This type of complaint makes me think that if it was the opposite, that the game started with dancing to cows and was changed to feeding cows there would have been a storm of complaints about removing flavor in the starter area and how feeding cows is boring and insulting to the players intelligence.

I was kittening about the cow situation in Ascalon long before NPE introduced dancing with cows. The cattle-pult guy? The associated quest/mission/objectives should have been to put that maniac out of commission, likely by flinging him across Ascalon in his own catapult. Feeding bugs to cows? Tee hee. While cows surely do ingest the occasional bug, it’s because those bugs got into what the cows actually do eat: grasses and grains and other vegetation. Happy fun anecdote: I once picked up a freshly baled bale of hay that had a snake stuck in it. I must admit I did do a little dance at that moment, but sadly there were no cows nearby to be entertained by my spontaneous exhibition of mad terpischorean skillz. Ahem. That business about wearing a cow costume so that you can train cows to defend themselves? That’s just…

Cattle rancher: Oh, hey, cow. Guess what? Your time has come. Can you spell BBQ?
Cow (assuming flying hoof stance): Moo-yah!

And afterwards, there’s this whole cow revolution thing and next thing you know it’s Guild Wars 3: Chew of Cud. Which I would probably pre-order. Um. Where was I? Oh, yeah.

Wikipedia is just a click away, but research? For, ya know, verisimilitude? Bah! Clearly, ain’t nobody at anet got time for that!

zenleto.6179:

I did confirm it. I used a fine salvage kit with a level 9 character. Is my post invisible? That bit of misinformation seems to be the only thing wrong on that chart. I did go through it.

Oh sorry, hehe, I saw your post. I meant if someone could confirm how it appears at that level, how the level up guide shows it.

The original page on wiki had “Information about” text for items which were just information, unlocks hadn’t it and then I put those with “Information about” in the “Information” column. However, this item specifically hadn’t such text then I assumed it would be an unlock.

And thanks for checking that list.

shadow.6174:

zenleto.6179:

I did confirm it. I used a fine salvage kit with a level 9 character. Is my post invisible? That bit of misinformation seems to be the only thing wrong on that chart. I did go through it.

Oh sorry, hehe, I saw your post. I meant if someone could confirm how it appears at that level, how the level up guide shows it.

The original page on wiki had “Information about” text for items which were just information, unlocks hadn’t it and then I put those with “Information about” in the “Information” column. However, this item specifically hadn’t such text then I assumed it would be an unlock.

And thanks for checking that list.

Doh, of course. Sorry, bit cranky while working at the moment. Too bad this didn’t come up the other day or I could have keep an eye out. I just had a character pass through the 40s. I have another one close to it so if this isn’t answered I’ll let you know.

zenleto.6179:

shadow.6174:

zenleto.6179:

I did confirm it. I used a fine salvage kit with a level 9 character. Is my post invisible? That bit of misinformation seems to be the only thing wrong on that chart. I did go through it.

Oh sorry, hehe, I saw your post. I meant if someone could confirm how it appears at that level, how the level up guide shows it.

The original page on wiki had “Information about” text for items which were just information, unlocks hadn’t it and then I put those with “Information about” in the “Information” column. However, this item specifically hadn’t such text then I assumed it would be an unlock.

And thanks for checking that list.

Doh, of course. Sorry, bit cranky while working at the moment. Too bad this didn’t come up the other day or I could have keep an eye out. I just had a character pass through the 40s. I have another one close to it so if this isn’t answered I’ll let you know.

Hehe alright, np at all, and thanks again. I’ll try check it myself too when I can.

Ok, I have double checked it through a video and what happens is the level-up guide is (not surprisingly) inconsistent. Firstly, in fact yes, at level 44 (not 43 as stated) it informs you about Fine Salvage kits and not unlocks it. I came to this conclusion because the hover text in it says “Click here for more information” while at level 2, per example, weapon skill unlock is presented like “Weapon Skill 2 Unlocked” and on level 10 vistas is like “Vistas Unlocked”.

However, why did I say it’s inconsistent? If we were to base unlock or not by the word “Unlocked” at the end, dungeons shouldn’t be considered unlock but information. Maybe that’s why Fine Salvage kits was taken as unlock and not just information about instead.

Here is a pic to show what I mean. Also I have fixed that thing about Fine Salvage kits on the wiki.

P.S.: Anyway it’s kind of silly (to not say other thing) to be taught about Fine Salvage Kits at lvl 44 when it was taught about salvaging lvls before…

Monkey Fritz.9052:

Queensdale Map Chat Before NPE

New PLayer: How do I do X?
Vet player: Simple answer.
Other Vet Player: More in depth answer.
Another Player: Also, you can do Y.
Yet Another Player: Z is pretty awesome too!

Queensdale Map Chat Post NPE
New PLayer: Why can’t I do X?
Vet Player: Because you aren’t high enough level.

Not sure if anyone else sees this particular inherent flaw.

This post basically sums up how all the people who are new or just started playing again that I personally play with experience the game now. Although my answer is usually: “New player experience, go complain about it on the forums please.”

Oh, and you know what really kittenz people off, the fact that one of the dye rewards is bugged, you don’t actually get the unid dye

@shadow Ah I misunderstood, sorry

Add me to the list of players who, for the most part, dislike NPE. I have had one account since release and recently added another account with the sale (more character slots for a bargain price). I find the lockout from basic skills and content makes the experience of leveling a new character to be boring and grindy. Instead of enjoying content and exploring, I feel like I should rush my way through the beginning levels of a new character just so I can unlock dyes, vistas, and basic skills. Please fix the design in a manner that will allow players to turn off NPE. It’s not as terrible on my old account where I have level 20 scrolls and tomes sitting around, but it’s downright painful on the second account or if the day comes that I buy enough character slots on my original account that I run out of leveling aids.

1,1,1,1,1,1 yawns. Oh, I gained a level! I wonder what Nanny Game will let me do now? 1,2,1,2 sigh

Things I like:
Not having to grind out each weapon for skills. I remember this being very tedious on my elementalist for each weapon & attunement. However, I did like that I had the ability to gain access to skills faster.

The content guide compass that direct you to new content. It’s helpful at times when I can’t find that one item I missed for completion of an area.

The level rewards can be a gratifying experience.

Things I dislike:

Pretty much everything else, but particularly all the gated content that really doesn’t seem necessary to gate, such as dyes, wardrobe, hiding map content, personal story, downed state, weapon swapping, underwater combat, and other content that doesn’t require hand holding for someone who has played GW2, or almost any game, for that matter.

The previous way felt organic and natural. You could explore, gain skills at a faster pace if you wanted to use them earlier, follow the beginning personal story when you were the same level as the area where it takes place, and access basic features. Gaining profession-defining traits wasn’t about doing some ridiculous mission or grinding out skill points and gold to be able to purchase them. The current system feels overly simplified and frustrating for experienced players, yet doesn’t seem to add good in-game information about how traits, combo fields, or things that are far more confusing to new players work than using dyes or accessing a vista. Additionally, much of the info comes very late in the leveling process and is very brief and easily overlooked by players just clicking the pop up to get it off the screen. How about instead of focusing on telling someone how the bank works at level 9, you tell them at level 1 what those big red circles on the ground mean when they fight Issormir? I guess that may be too much when you assume that any player with a level 1 character needs a popup that explains movement and isn’t capable of doing anything more than pressing “1” and letting autoattack take over. Such a waste of an opportunity to actually teach a new player how to use their basic skills or combat principles.

I would like to see a lot of the level-gated features come off, the trait system reworked, the personal story fixed so that it flows naturally and isn’t full of problems at later levels, and a solid tutorial or tips that can be toggled off.

I think a hearts quest is broken. I have tried dancing for the dolyaks but my heart meter does not increase, all I can do is pick up this stuff, help please?

Paul.4081:

I think a hearts quest is broken. I have tried dancing for the dolyaks but my heart meter does not increase, all I can do is pick up this stuff, help please?

Have you tried to tickle them?
Also,allowing them to lick your face makes them extra happy.

Aenaos.8160:

Paul.4081:

I think a hearts quest is broken. I have tried dancing for the dolyaks but my heart meter does not increase, all I can do is pick up this stuff, help please?

Have you tried to tickle them?
Also,allowing them to lick your face makes them extra happy.

ROFL. Dolyaks don’t like dancing, cows do. :P

I was about to make a new thread but I guess I can put it in here -

I love guild wars 2 and I love to play it. I also enjoy the rich and vibrant world there is to explore. Unfortunately I am really struggling to enjoy playing new characters, and I believe the main reason for this is down to the restrictions and “progression” that was reverse added to the game with the previous major update.

I don’t define having levelled a character over half way through its levelling progression and still only having access to the first two series of traits. I understand the traits system as it is but locking off the end tiers (Master and GMaster) until 60+ is killing the levelling process for me. So much so I ended up powering through EotM to level my last character and this time I’m powering through sPvP to get tomes as at least this is teaching me the full ability range of the class.

I still enjoy going out into the world but when I try to do anything remotely interesting with my characters < 60 I feel like I’m useless. How is a character or player supposed to develop and learn the skills they need at 80 when half of the mechanics and build variation is hidden away until end game. when by then you should really know how to utilise your build and character.

Surely I’m not the only one that feels the same way?

Kindeller.3072:

Surely I’m not the only one that feels the same way?

If you haven’t done so, just scroll up and back in this thread and you will see that several others feel the same way, then I would say yes.

So many of us have hated the new trait system. It’s worse than the original in so many ways, such as making it harder for those with a lot of alts to keep up. While I like the idea of giving players an option to get traits through gameplay, it seemed like a lot of their choices for activites and the order in which they placed them were anywhere from odd to downright painful. Plus, the increased costs were really unnecessary.

If the organization of the gameplay options were more intuitive and more accessible to most players, or we had broader categories for completing each one, it might have worked. However, as it stands, it needs redoing and so it’s good news that they’re going to do just that.

Of course, HOW they redo it remains to be seen and whether it makes everything worse or better.

Celtic Lady.3729:

So many of us have hated the new trait system. It’s worse than the original in so many ways, such as making it harder for those with a lot of alts to keep up. While I like the idea of giving players an option to get traits through gameplay, it seemed like a lot of their choices for activites and the order in which they placed them were anywhere from odd to downright painful. Plus, the increased costs were really unnecessary.

If the organization of the gameplay options were more intuitive and more accessible to most players, or we had broader categories for completing each one, it might have worked. However, as it stands, it needs redoing and so it’s good news that they’re going to do just that.

Of course, HOW they redo it remains to be seen and whether it makes everything worse or better.

Forgive me for being out of touch but they’re looking at traits for HOT?

Kindeller.3072:

Celtic Lady.3729:

So many of us have hated the new trait system. It’s worse than the original in so many ways, such as making it harder for those with a lot of alts to keep up. While I like the idea of giving players an option to get traits through gameplay, it seemed like a lot of their choices for activites and the order in which they placed them were anywhere from odd to downright painful. Plus, the increased costs were really unnecessary.

If the organization of the gameplay options were more intuitive and more accessible to most players, or we had broader categories for completing each one, it might have worked. However, as it stands, it needs redoing and so it’s good news that they’re going to do just that.

Of course, HOW they redo it remains to be seen and whether it makes everything worse or better.

Forgive me for being out of touch but they’re looking at traits for HOT?

Yes.

zenleto.6179:

Kindeller.3072:

Celtic Lady.3729:

So many of us have hated the new trait system. It’s worse than the original in so many ways, such as making it harder for those with a lot of alts to keep up. While I like the idea of giving players an option to get traits through gameplay, it seemed like a lot of their choices for activites and the order in which they placed them were anywhere from odd to downright painful. Plus, the increased costs were really unnecessary.

If the organization of the gameplay options were more intuitive and more accessible to most players, or we had broader categories for completing each one, it might have worked. However, as it stands, it needs redoing and so it’s good news that they’re going to do just that.

Of course, HOW they redo it remains to be seen and whether it makes everything worse or better.

Forgive me for being out of touch but they’re looking at traits for HOT?

Yes.

Then i’ll just take this time to sit down and shut the front door :p

Kindeller.3072:

zenleto.6179:

Kindeller.3072:

Celtic Lady.3729:

So many of us have hated the new trait system. It’s worse than the original in so many ways, such as making it harder for those with a lot of alts to keep up. While I like the idea of giving players an option to get traits through gameplay, it seemed like a lot of their choices for activites and the order in which they placed them were anywhere from odd to downright painful. Plus, the increased costs were really unnecessary.

If the organization of the gameplay options were more intuitive and more accessible to most players, or we had broader categories for completing each one, it might have worked. However, as it stands, it needs redoing and so it’s good news that they’re going to do just that.

Of course, HOW they redo it remains to be seen and whether it makes everything worse or better.

Forgive me for being out of touch but they’re looking at traits for HOT?

Yes.

Then i’ll just take this time to sit down and shut the front door :p

Traits are also not from the NPE September patch, they’re from last April. Specifically, 11 months as of tomorrow. And we don’t have any information on what they’re going to do to “fix” the trait issue. It could be worse than what we have now. Maybe they’re removing traits entirely. Who knows? Someone at Anet, probably.