Guild Wars 2

I’m so sad. I was having so much fun running in a circle pressing 1 repeatedly, with occasional F’s thrown in to pick up my loot. Now I actually have to play a variety of content to get my payoff. C’mon A-net, just eliminate all the other zones and put 10 champions in a loop in LA and let us run around zerging them. Whaaaaaa! Pleeeeeease!

Zplus.4217:

Beldin.5498:

thefantasticg.3984:

I love in this thread the “I don’t like the way you play the game. I’m glad they nerfed it so you don’t play the game how you want to.” replies. Fark you guys. I like to farm. I enjoy it. Quit trying to make me quit playing this game, Anet!

Yeah .. maybe its time to start a “nerf Dungeon rewards” Thread, since i don’t like Dungeons, so its time to nerf them also.

Especially the ones where people can just skip most of the stuff and get rewards for practically 0 skills. I wouldn’t really call that a fair reward system.

This, this and this. I guess “play your way” really means only if other people think it’s ok and they approve.

Daddar.5971:

I’m so sad. I was having so much fun running in a circle pressing 1 repeatedly, with occasional F’s thrown in to pick up my loot. Now I actually have to play a variety of content to get my payoff. C’mon A-net, just eliminate all the other zones and put 10 champions in a loop in LA and let us run around zerging them. Whaaaaaa! Pleeeeeease!

Nerfing champ bags affects people that don’t do champ trains more than the champ train itself. What’s a few copper less in a bag when you get a hundred of them? Who cares, but for people that don’t do champ trains, and get champ bags at a normal pace, the bags are a lot more worthless than they were before.

I agree, zerging is not fun, but punishing the people that don’t zerg because there is a zerg is just very strange.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

Zplus.4217:

Beldin.5498:

thefantasticg.3984:

I love in this thread the “I don’t like the way you play the game. I’m glad they nerfed it so you don’t play the game how you want to.” replies. Fark you guys. I like to farm. I enjoy it. Quit trying to make me quit playing this game, Anet!

Yeah .. maybe its time to start a “nerf Dungeon rewards” Thread, since i don’t like Dungeons, so its time to nerf them also.

Especially the ones where people can just skip most of the stuff and get rewards for practically 0 skills. I wouldn’t really call that a fair reward system.

This, this and this. I guess “play your way” really means only if other people think it’s ok and they approve.

The uncut version of the quote is “Play your way so that we know what to nerf next and we’ll make you play our way if it’s the last thing we do”

Zplus.4217:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

thefantasticg.3984:

I love in this thread the “I don’t like the way you play the game. I’m glad they nerfed it so you don’t play the game how you want to.” replies. Fark you guys. I like to farm. I enjoy it. Quit trying to make me quit playing this game, Anet!

Anet does not believe farming is a valid way to play the game. This is an objective fact. There is 7 years of GW1 nerfs and 1 year of GW2 nerfs that follows this trend. If you are a farmer then Anet does not want you playing the game, end of story.

If you want to go out, do a bunch of different activities every day once a day then that is fine. But if you want to just run in circles and do the same thing over and over then Anet will make sure you are rewarded as little as possible.

I don’t know what you expected. I mean the reason people were running these trains 8 hours a day was because they knew it was too good to be true and was going to be nerfed. Now that it was nerfed everyone is “shocked and surprised” that their “legitimate” way of farming was nerfed. Just the same as CoF P1 was.

Rewards are slowly being balanced across the game now. Dungeon Path running, World Boss running, and champ trains are all about equal now. WvW is the one area that is lagging behind the most.

Is that the reason why we had Crown Pavilion and Scarlet’s Invasion, where in both cases offers waves after waves of mobs which encourages players to “just run in circles and do the same thing over and over”?

Exactly. ANet encourages the champ farm on one hand (LS) but then discourages the same thing so they can funnel you into THEIR idea of what you should be doing. I found the last 4 LS adds to be more tedious than anything else I’ve ever done in this game. Boring as all get out. At least with the group I did FGS with we had conversation and some social aspect and I could have my morning coffee and relax and enjoy it. The Scarlett invasions were the worst. WP here, WP there, get lost, get to the pirates, who cares about completing it? GET THE PIRATES… OMG where are the pirates???? Gimme a break. You think ANet is not completely turning this into a world-wide champ train? Open your eyes.

Daddar.5971:

I’m so sad. I was having so much fun running in a circle pressing 1 repeatedly, with occasional F’s thrown in to pick up my loot. Now I actually have to play a variety of content to get my payoff. C’mon A-net, just eliminate all the other zones and put 10 champions in a loop in LA and let us run around zerging them. Whaaaaaa! Pleeeeeease!

Off course you were force to do that all day long.

Btw.: I only farm champs for Bloodstone, so all the nerf has done to me is that i have to farm even more champs than i want to.

thefantasticg.3984:

I love in this thread the “I don’t like the way you play the game. I’m glad they nerfed it so you don’t play the game how you want to.” replies. Fark you guys. I like to farm. I enjoy it. Quit trying to make me quit playing this game, Anet!

Probably wouldn’t have happen so soon if the train wasn’t so possessive of the champs and bullied any who took out a champ out of order. I would imagine that it was a GM nightmare. And I’m sure that the worse were always just this side of what was considered banable conduct.

JohnnySupernova.9182:

Daddar.5971:

I’m so sad. I was having so much fun running in a circle pressing 1 repeatedly, with occasional F’s thrown in to pick up my loot. Now I actually have to play a variety of content to get my payoff. C’mon A-net, just eliminate all the other zones and put 10 champions in a loop in LA and let us run around zerging them. Whaaaaaa! Pleeeeeease!

Nerfing champ bags affects people that don’t do champ trains more than the champ train itself. What’s a few copper less in a bag when you get a hundred of them? Who cares, but for people that don’t do champ trains, and get champ bags at a normal pace, the bags are a lot more worthless than they were before.

I agree, zerging is not fun, but punishing the people that don’t zerg because there is a zerg is just very strange.

Your logic is a little off here. It most definately hurts the farms more.

I don’t farm champs, I get maybe 10 or so champ bags each time I play from doing a few dungeons.

Now using completely fabricated numbers here, if I get 10 silver less per champ bag. I’ll loose about a gold a day now. So less then a single dungeon run worth of rewards. No biggie, I’ll never notice it.

If you are a farmer getting 100 champ bags a day (which is probably a modest amount), you’re loosing 10g per day, which is significant.

100 a day for a champ farmer isn’t even close, you can get about 40-50 an hour depending on the zone/path you take, I read about this nerf, so went and tested it today, I only did a small test 75 champ boxes from a highly farmed level 80 zone, I will openly admit there is no risk in this farm, but it does highlight something.

I was amazed to see that 15 of the boxes gave me less than 1 silver, and a few give none at all, with the highest I seen was 8 silver, still not bad for a no risk farm, what got me was the removal of nearly all T6 mats, out of the 75 boxes I got 2 x T6 fangs, that was it, looking at the price of T6 mats on the TP its going to be bad for anyone needing these mats,

When anet nerf something they really go overboard, which highlights the other part, its ok to get a small reward for no risk, but anything that is high risk or time consuming, ( FotM lvl 40+ ) your getting even less rewards!!!!!

Get your act together anet, this motion of telling people how to play and where to play in the game doesn’t work, and if you try carry that practice over into your Asian market that your trying to break into, you might aswell stop now.

Ok I Did It.2854:

100 a day for a champ farmer isn’t even close, you can get about 40-50 an hour depending on the zone/path you take, I read about this nerf, so went and tested it today, I only did a small test 75 champ boxes from a highly farmed level 80 zone, I will openly admit there is no risk in this farm, but it does highlight something.

I was amazed to see that 15 of the boxes gave me less than 1 silver, and a few give none at all, with the highest I seen was 8 silver, still not bad for a no risk farm, what got me was the removal of nearly all T6 mats, out of the 75 boxes I got 2 x T6 fangs, that was it, looking at the price of T6 mats on the TP its going to be bad for anyone needing these mats,

How ridiculous plus the nerf to bloodstone dust when they release new recipes requiring substantial amounts of it.

And john smiths post was not an explanation for why. Collaborative development where art thou.

Zplus.4217:

Beldin.5498:

thefantasticg.3984:

I love in this thread the “I don’t like the way you play the game. I’m glad they nerfed it so you don’t play the game how you want to.” replies. Fark you guys. I like to farm. I enjoy it. Quit trying to make me quit playing this game, Anet!

Yeah .. maybe its time to start a “nerf Dungeon rewards” Thread, since i don’t like Dungeons, so its time to nerf them also.

Especially the ones where people can just skip most of the stuff and get rewards for practically 0 skills. I wouldn’t really call that a fair reward system.

If it takes 0 skill, why don’t you do it?

Also, oh the irony… A champ train farmer complaining that dungeon running takes 0 skill. It’s almost painfully ironic…

You realize you have been showered with gold for 0 skill for months now, right?

the time you all wasted on the forums could have made you some gold no matter which solution and play style you chose for yourself

John Smith.4610:

Hello all, I looked into this because we intended to have a release note for the changes to the champion loot.
We did modify the gold and bloodstone dust coming from champion bags, and a release note will be added shortly.
What I can tell you is that we made a mistake, this one fell through the cracks and I’m truly sorry. I’ve promised before that we won’t make stealthy economic changes without notes and I mean to stick to that promise.
Thank you all for pointing out the error, we will be more vigilant in the future.
Good luck in your adventures.

Hi, John Smith. I just wanted to point out that it has been two days since your comment and, as of this comment, the addition to the release notes has not happened yet.

Behellagh.1468:

thefantasticg.3984:

I love in this thread the “I don’t like the way you play the game. I’m glad they nerfed it so you don’t play the game how you want to.” replies. Fark you guys. I like to farm. I enjoy it. Quit trying to make me quit playing this game, Anet!

Probably wouldn’t have happen so soon if the train wasn’t so possessive of the champs and bullied any who took out a champ out of order. I would imagine that it was a GM nightmare. And I’m sure that the worse were always just this side of what was considered banable conduct.

Maybe you should not assume all players are represented by the few who were rude.

Gene Archer.8560:

Ashabhi.1365:

With all this “I want it all right now with no effort” mentality,

Of course I don’t want to put effort in. It’s a freaking game! I just want to play a game and enjoy myself and not have to worry about anything.

Effort and work and skill are for the real world. I don’t want to work in a game because that’s not supposed to be the point of a game.

I love how you ignore the rest of the post that says something about the nerf itself jump on something that is clearly my own opinion.

If, as you say, you don’t want to put forth any effort, then by all means, play the way you want, but don’t expect to have things handed to you. There is a lot of exotics out there that only require a wallet. If you want to have legendary or ascended gear, be prepared to work for them.

We all knew the nerfs were going to come. With all the raging in the forums, it was inevitable.

The thread is about non-cummunication. I do agree wholeheartedly that they should have said something before the nerf.

The part that was my opinion merely expressed my belief (only mine) that a lot of the threads in the forum are nothing more than a whine. Possibly (probably) even mine.

John Smith.4610:

Hello all, I looked into this because we intended to have a release note for the changes to the champion loot.
We did modify the gold and bloodstone dust coming from champion bags, and a release note will be added shortly.
What I can tell you is that we made a mistake, this one fell through the cracks and I’m truly sorry. I’ve promised before that we won’t make stealthy economic changes without notes and I mean to stick to that promise.
Thank you all for pointing out the error, we will be more vigilant in the future.
Good luck in your adventures.

Whilst very noble of you to come out and apologize. It’s stuff like this that hampers player trust in your company to keep their word and fulfill promises. Thus we as players expect it’s going to happen again and ‘conspiracy theories’ with finger pointing will run wild in result.

Bright.9160:

If it takes 0 skill, why don’t you do it?

Also, oh the irony… A champ train farmer complaining that dungeon running takes 0 skill. It’s almost painfully ironic…

You realize you have been showered with gold for 0 skill for months now, right?

I still don’t get why they are still playing. Pressing 1 gets boring eventually, at least for me.

CryxTryx.9208:

JohnnySupernova.9182:

Daddar.5971:

I’m so sad. I was having so much fun running in a circle pressing 1 repeatedly, with occasional F’s thrown in to pick up my loot. Now I actually have to play a variety of content to get my payoff. C’mon A-net, just eliminate all the other zones and put 10 champions in a loop in LA and let us run around zerging them. Whaaaaaa! Pleeeeeease!

Nerfing champ bags affects people that don’t do champ trains more than the champ train itself. What’s a few copper less in a bag when you get a hundred of them? Who cares, but for people that don’t do champ trains, and get champ bags at a normal pace, the bags are a lot more worthless than they were before.

I agree, zerging is not fun, but punishing the people that don’t zerg because there is a zerg is just very strange.

Your logic is a little off here. It most definately hurts the farms more.

I don’t farm champs, I get maybe 10 or so champ bags each time I play from doing a few dungeons.

Now using completely fabricated numbers here, if I get 10 silver less per champ bag. I’ll loose about a gold a day now. So less then a single dungeon run worth of rewards. No biggie, I’ll never notice it.

If you are a farmer getting 100 champ bags a day (which is probably a modest amount), you’re loosing 10g per day, which is significant.

While there will be variation in any limited sample, anyone opening champ bags will experience a percentage reduction over time. Your example of 1/10 and 10/100 represents a 10% reduction for both, which means that both are hurt proportionally in terms of return on time spent. As we all know, that is the measure by which the farmers determine the effectiveness of a farm. If the train farmer took less time to get ten bags than you did, you suffered a greater reduction in return on time.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

Behellagh.1468:

thefantasticg.3984:

I love in this thread the “I don’t like the way you play the game. I’m glad they nerfed it so you don’t play the game how you want to.” replies. Fark you guys. I like to farm. I enjoy it. Quit trying to make me quit playing this game, Anet!

Probably wouldn’t have happen so soon if the train wasn’t so possessive of the champs and bullied any who took out a champ out of order. I would imagine that it was a GM nightmare. And I’m sure that the worse were always just this side of what was considered banable conduct.

Maybe you should not assume all players are represented by the few who were rude.

I don’t but it only takes a few bad apples to sour the mash. Take any victory celebration that turns into a riot after the last game of a season or a big rivalry. Do you think a small army of law enforcement is needed if everyone just milled about celebrating? No it’s the few that equate victory as a license to cause property damage and other mischief.

Now if Anet had a visible rep in every train or at every champ spot waiting to hammer the few bad apples then maybe they would have left it alone but they simply don’t have the manpower to do this proactively.

Behellagh.1468:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

Behellagh.1468:

thefantasticg.3984:

I love in this thread the “I don’t like the way you play the game. I’m glad they nerfed it so you don’t play the game how you want to.” replies. Fark you guys. I like to farm. I enjoy it. Quit trying to make me quit playing this game, Anet!

Probably wouldn’t have happen so soon if the train wasn’t so possessive of the champs and bullied any who took out a champ out of order. I would imagine that it was a GM nightmare. And I’m sure that the worse were always just this side of what was considered banable conduct.

Maybe you should not assume all players are represented by the few who were rude.

I don’t but it only takes a few bad apples to sour the mash. Take any victory celebration that turns into a riot after the last game of a season or a big rivalry. Do you think a small army of law enforcement is needed if everyone just milled about celebrating? No it’s the few that equate victory as a license to cause property damage and other mischief.

Now if Anet had a visible rep in every train or at every champ spot waiting to hammer the few bad apples then maybe they would have left it alone but they simply don’t have the manpower to do this proactively.

It’s a large community of people. In any large community there are bad people, but usually I would assume the majority are good. I’ve said it so many times I get sick of pointing out the obvious… if someone is saying something that is abusive, to YOU, report it. That person should be held accountable for bad behaviour. However, that doesn’t mean the 30 people running around doing the same thing are all bad. ANet shouldn’t have to look over every shoulder. There is a good system here to report, and anyone can take a screen sheet of what was said and send it in.

In any case, the issue is nerf of champ boxes, which was done under the radar, which DOES seem to be usual for ANet in instances where they could assume the general player base will be VERY upset about the nerf (karma nerf anyone??). I agree with another poster. I used to believe people really just had the conspiracy theory mindset, but more and more I see that ANet seems to purposefully hold back the worst game changes. I no longer trust them at all.

notebene.3190:

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

Anet doesn’t hate farming. They hate farming that awards negative play and game values.

The champ train did that as evidence in Queendale map chat at the sheer negativity between those that train and those that don’t and new players that are lead away from the real game and led to believe champ farming is the only way to play GW 2 while missing out on the true experience and exploration that GW 2 offers.

I still haven’t been able to get a good honest group for Arah paths 1-4 (LFG is not used or even looked at by others) because no one does it in favor of the easy life style of champ farming. Between playing the TP and the champ farms, I have nothing else to do for money.I already realize its bad behavior, but if you can’t beat them, join them right?

The only issue I have with your comment is to me, it seems subjective as to what positive and negative play values are.

I don’t, and have never, thought it a good idea to put the money in one place. You juxtapose champ farming with wanting to run Arah, and put that on a pedestal as (without explicitly saying it, I suppose) as a ‘positive play value’. And that’s fine, that is what ‘you’ perceive as a positive play value and experience.

I do not enjoy dungeons. I find the social pressures and experiences over the years be much the same as your characterization of people who are champ farming, as you perceive them. That’s also fine, but it’s your own perception that it’s a negative play value.

I’m just the opposite.

As for “…missing out on the true experience and exploration that GW 2 offers”, that IS the point, and thank you!

But to me, that means that ‘all’ these things should reward the same money, so there is no ‘best way’:

1. DEs
2. Champs
3. World Events
4. Dungeons
5. Fractals (w/ some obvious exceptions, as that whole experience was ‘designed’ as a bit of an ‘off in the corner’ vertical progression for those that enjoy that sort of thing).
6. WvW
7. Selling on the TP
8. ???

If everything rewarded the same money, T6 mats, crafting mats, whatever it was you needed to work towards whatever it is you wanted, then there would be no ‘best way’, and you wouldn’t see CoF P1 runs, and champ runs, and whatever. It would just be a mix of everything. Which would be great!

Today, I choose to make my ‘n’ money per hour in dungeons.
Today, I choose to make my ‘n’ money per hour with DEs.
Today, I choose to make my ‘n’ money doing WvW.

As long as that is the goal, and that is what they are striving for, then I’m all for it.

I should have been more clear then as positive play to me is helping others as a party of 2-5 in all content and teaching them to play and not, “Here have some zerker gear and zerg with us to 80!”, or skip trash mobs in a dungeon path without any knowledge of mechanics or your class and you dying because you can’t keep up through the constant running away from elites, and whatever is going on now— like in Queensdale, no cooperation, just zergs and complaints in the chats when things are killed too fast or before the massive group gets there. I for one like to get things done achievement-wise (arah 1-4) but at the same time getting another to progress along with me (someone new to the game or thing in question I’m willing to do with them). If you don’t like dungeons maybe you can learn to like them if someone like me or another offers a better experience (no skips, intelligent play, less armor breakage) to do them? I’m not forcing you, I can always find another group.

Negative play is the things I described as not being helpful to the community at large and more selfish.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

It’s a large community of people. In any large community there are bad people, but usually I would assume the majority are good. I’ve said it so many times I get sick of pointing out the obvious… if someone is saying something that is abusive, to YOU, report it. That person should be held accountable for bad behaviour. However, that doesn’t mean the 30 people running around doing the same thing are all bad. ANet shouldn’t have to look over every shoulder. There is a good system here to report, and anyone can take a screen sheet of what was said and send it in.

In any case, the issue is nerf of champ boxes, which was done under the radar, which DOES seem to be usual for ANet in instances where they could assume the general player base will be VERY upset about the nerf (karma nerf anyone??). I agree with another poster. I used to believe people really just had the conspiracy theory mindset, but more and more I see that ANet seems to purposefully hold back the worst game changes. I no longer trust them at all.

Considering the also dropped the ball on dye changes with Sylvari I do chalk it up to an oversight. Previous MMOs have had the same problem converting the list of all intentional changes and bug fixes into a readable patch note.

Still it’s been a bit since John Smith said the patch notes will be updated to reflect this. I know it’s in the clear now so it’s kind of late to update it now but at least someone get on it and get it done.

Beldin.5498:

Yeah .. maybe its time to start a “nerf Dungeon rewards” Thread, since i don’t like Dungeons, so its time to nerf them also.

I agree 100%. I don’t do dungeons so I think that they should have less rewards esp since it’s been proven that speed runs can be done super fast with little to no skill. Infact the boss should be invul until the trash has all been cleared.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Anet does not believe farming is a valid way to play the game. This is an objective fact. There is 7 years of GW1 nerfs and 1 year of GW2 nerfs that follows this trend. If you are a farmer then Anet does not want you playing the game, end of story.

I’m just wondering have you actually played Guild Wars 2? Anything more then wandering around in circles going OMG this isn’t WoW look how wonderful it is without actually doing anything? This is the most grind infested game ever released. Have you looked at the Ascended gear from grinding the same Fractal instances over and over and over again, to grinding dungeons endlessly for the gear, to looking at the Legendary? Everything in this game is a grind. Candy corn requirements in the thousands?……………………

McSlappy.1372:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Anet does not believe farming is a valid way to play the game. This is an objective fact. There is 7 years of GW1 nerfs and 1 year of GW2 nerfs that follows this trend. If you are a farmer then Anet does not want you playing the game, end of story.

I’m just wondering have you actually played Guild Wars 2? Anything more then wandering around in circles going OMG this isn’t WoW look how wonderful it is without actually doing anything? This is the most grind infested game ever released. Have you looked at the Ascended gear from grinding the same Fractal instances over and over and over again, to grinding dungeons endlessly for the gear, to looking at the Legendary? Everything in this game is a grind. Candy corn requirements in the thousands?……………………

You seem to think he’s not saying the same thing you are, and he really is. He’s talking about farming nerfs. Much of what there is to “work” for in GW2 requires farming. Farming nerfs mean more time spent to gain the things you want. More time spent farming equates to grind.

I just see too much of Arena Net destroying and nerfing than the actual underlying FIXING of problems at hand which caused all of this. Cough cough, the kittenty reward system scaled so that all is fair for all. I really don’t like having the same loot drop at lvl 30 drop for me at lvl 80…….pointless. (Inserted slight exaggeration but you get what I am feeling I hope)

Edit: Posted wrong link – woopsy :/ now I can’t find it again…meh oh well.

Plot twist: What if Anet nerfed champ boxes so that wvwvw players get even less gold so that they are forced to pve to get ascended gear =O

Bastien.1645:

Plot twist: What if Anet nerfed champ boxes so that wvwvw players get even less gold so that they are forced to pve to get ascended gear =O

WvW players are already forced to PvE to get ascended gear. Dragonite ore does not drop in WvW enough to allow for WvW players to stay in WvW.

Bastien.1645:

Plot twist: What if Anet nerfed champ boxes so that wvwvw players get even less gold so that they are forced to pve to get ascended gear =O

It would then again be worth less then worthless and my time would be better spent doing other things or playing other games again. Only reason I even considered trying the game again is because you could get ascended in PvP. If that hadn’t happed I’d still not be playing this game and not really missing it much. But the best PvP gear can now be obtained in PvP so we’ll see how I like it at the end of the WvW season one. Giving it another shot till then.

I’m going to put it very blunt to you John. I would like to ask for some higher in the chain to come and comment (I would suggest Colin). The reason is that I am very angry bout this. If you check my history on this forum I’m what some would call a fanboy. I truly love this game and I have always been on the barricade for you. But when it comes to nerfing the grind you are taking a wrong path and I think its time you stop experimenting but come out and talk to us.

Lemme first give some background bout the situation. You are trying your best to bring out new and refreshing content. You want us to stay hooked to the game as much as we like to stay hooked. However, new content is faster played through then developped. So it is impossible to give us new and interesting content all the time. So you introduced other things to keep us happy. Grinds. That is the main purpose of a legendary, or cultural armor or.. etc.

Grinds are there to keep us hooked. When you put in grinds like this the people will start grinding. And yes I’m truly sorry, we might do it in a way you never intended or could imagined. But constantly nerfing grinds is not the way. I agree when it comes to certain farms it was a good plan too nerf it. This is because of all the flames in chat bout it. The best example was the temple off lyssa farm. Some people wanted to do the event, some wanted to not do the event so they could farm (gorilla’s if I remember correctly?). It leaded to verbal abuse in the map and it is good that that farm was nerfed. Others however have been plain old wrong. I refer to the rather popular penintent waypoint farm.

If you do not want us to farm, then do not add grinds to the game. As there is a grind needed for both off us, let us farm!!

Now, I think I can speak for all people here that if there are undesirable side effects to the current way we are farming, then we are all open to discuss alternatives. But constantly removing farms and using us as labrats to test new things out and then reverse it is wrong!

So I would ask you to reconsider this change for now, untill atleast a more permanent solution has been found.

1: revert this change as soon as possible!
2: put a query on the game logs and refund everyone that opened a champbag a small amount of extra silver to compensate for this wrong nerf.

The reason is that you messed up and you messed up big time. This nerf should have been announced atleast two weeks for introduction for those that stacked the bags. And the reason is that you have kitten ed us farmers off too many times allready with nerfs like this!

The second step is to open a dialogue. CD is an excellent tool, and I think that that should be used. Tell us what you have against the farms that havebeen nerfed over thepast. EWxplain your goals. Tell us bout your struggles in this matter.

Also listen to us, our complaints and our wishes. We don’t want a legendary for free, thrown in our lap after 3 hours of playing. It is no problem its hard. But don’t toy with us, and take our desire to farm serious.

So Colin, im sorry, I know you are a busy man, but please free up some time and take the first steps to a better solution. I dont ask you to finish it, but please show you take the community serious and are open to have a good solution!

Bright.9160:

Zplus.4217:

Beldin.5498:

thefantasticg.3984:

I love in this thread the “I don’t like the way you play the game. I’m glad they nerfed it so you don’t play the game how you want to.” replies. Fark you guys. I like to farm. I enjoy it. Quit trying to make me quit playing this game, Anet!

Yeah .. maybe its time to start a “nerf Dungeon rewards” Thread, since i don’t like Dungeons, so its time to nerf them also.

Especially the ones where people can just skip most of the stuff and get rewards for practically 0 skills. I wouldn’t really call that a fair reward system.

If it takes 0 skill, why don’t you do it?

Also, oh the irony… A champ train farmer complaining that dungeon running takes 0 skill. It’s almost painfully ironic…

You realize you have been showered with gold for 0 skill for months now, right?

0 skill dungeon skippers complaining about 0 skill champ farmers, oh the humanity.

Also, you do realise you have been showered with gold for 0 skill in dungeons SINCE launch now, right?

McSlappy.1372:

Bastien.1645:

Plot twist: What if Anet nerfed champ boxes so that wvwvw players get even less gold so that they are forced to pve to get ascended gear =O

It would then again be worth less then worthless and my time would be better spent doing other things or playing other games again. Only reason I even considered trying the game again is because you could get ascended in PvP. If that hadn’t happed I’d still not be playing this game and not really missing it much. But the best PvP gear can now be obtained in PvP so we’ll see how I like it at the end of the WvW season one. Giving it another shot till then.

lol where do you get this idea that the best gear is obtained in PvP? You can’t get ascended gear in PvP.

Amulet you need laurels
Rings you need laurels
Accessories you need laurels+Ectos

Ascended weapon mats would take you years to get just through wvwvw and you can’t even get the ascended mats required in wvwvw.

I’m not having a go at you, I wish we could get ascended armor/weapons in wvwvw, I made a big thread about it a couple of weeks ago, but we can’t

Zplus.4217:

Bright.9160:

Zplus.4217:

Beldin.5498:

thefantasticg.3984:

I love in this thread the “I don’t like the way you play the game. I’m glad they nerfed it so you don’t play the game how you want to.” replies. Fark you guys. I like to farm. I enjoy it. Quit trying to make me quit playing this game, Anet!

Yeah .. maybe its time to start a “nerf Dungeon rewards” Thread, since i don’t like Dungeons, so its time to nerf them also.

Especially the ones where people can just skip most of the stuff and get rewards for practically 0 skills. I wouldn’t really call that a fair reward system.

If it takes 0 skill, why don’t you do it?

Also, oh the irony… A champ train farmer complaining that dungeon running takes 0 skill. It’s almost painfully ironic…

You realize you have been showered with gold for 0 skill for months now, right?

0 skill dungeon skippers complaining about 0 skill champ farmers, oh the humanity.

Also, you do realise you have been showered with gold for 0 skill in dungeons SINCE launch now, right?

Except that champ farming is literally running around in circles and spamming your autoattack with not the slightest risk of casualties, whereas dungeons take skill and organization.

And secondly, dungeons were pretty unrewarding before they updated the reward system, and although they’re still not rewarding enough imo, they’re better than they were before.

Not to mention, some dungeon skips take more skill than you have to put in a week of champ farming.

Bright.9160:

Except that champ farming is literally running around in circles and spamming your autoattack with not the slightest risk of casualties, whereas dungeons take skill and organization.

And secondly, dungeons were pretty unrewarding before they updated the reward system, and although they’re still not rewarding enough imo, they’re better than they were before.

Not to mention, some dungeon skips take more skill than you have to put in a week of champ farming.

Dungeon requires organisation, I agree. Skill, nope.

Dungeon takes 5 friends to be organised. A champ farm organises 10+ random players.

So does it take skill to take down champs with 3-5 people? That’ s typical size of the “train” in FGS on my server.

I have done many dungeons and it seems that all it takes is practice to learn mechanics and path. First time through more skill required to make it through alive. Fiftieth time? No. Farming dungeons or champs makes no difference. If you do something more than one time…YOU are a farmer. I can’t even fathom how anyone sees a difference here.

PvP and WvW kills and survival take skill. Playing unpredictable opponents that think and react in different ways takes skill. Everything else is merely muscle memory.

GoZero.9708:

It’s only the 15th time ANet has nerfed the most profitable money maker in the game and it’s good on them so you’re not forced to do the same money making scheme to keep up with the inflation that comes from tons of people doing said most profitable thing in the game.

No, you’re still forced to do the same money making scheme that you were in the beginning if you wanted to make good money: Play TP baron…yay!
Oh also running a champ train is still plenty profitable…each ecto is worth like 30+s now you know…

Havvy.4897:

Really, the champ farming was driving up the prices of gems, making it so that those who don’t farm look at a steadily increasing price over the past few months

Gold>Gem prices have been rising steadily since long before champs were given decent loot.

Hey A.net, think you’ll get those updated patch notes up at some point or did you ‘forget about’ them again?

Bastien.1645:

lol where do you get this idea that the best gear is obtained in PvP? You can’t get ascended gear in PvP.

Amulet you need laurels
Rings you need laurels
Accessories you need laurels+Ectos

Ascended weapon mats would take you years to get just through wvwvw and you can’t even get the ascended mats required in wvwvw.

I’m not having a go at you, I wish we could get ascended armor/weapons in wvwvw, I made a big thread about it a couple of weeks ago, but we can’t

You’ll be pleased to hear this then. I already have my ascended necklace for a warrior I started leveling up at the start of Season One. You get the laurels from the daily and monthly achievements which you can easily complete in WvW. The laurel cost is reduced if you buy it with badges of honor which you get in WvW. So the trinket slots are acutally fairly fast. Only reason I don’t have two already is because I bought 3 ascended weapons recipes also so far.

As far as the ascended weapons, you get the ascended materials out of the chests that drop when you kill the Lords in the keeps, towers, etc. The rest of the materials are all around you. The WvW zones have all the various types of wood and metals to make all the parts in abundance.

Zplus.4217:

Dungeon requires organisation, I agree. Skill, nope.

Dungeon takes 5 friends to be organised. A champ farm organises 10+ random players.

Finally someone who saw the light. Open world content is very skillful, demands massive organization and is very time consuming.

haviz.1340:

Zplus.4217:

Dungeon requires organisation, I agree. Skill, nope.

Dungeon takes 5 friends to be organised. A champ farm organises 10+ random players.

Finally someone who saw the light. Open world content is very skillful, demands massive organization and is very time consuming.

um….make that some open world content.

The large events such kittenterer, Jormag, and a few others takes some coordination, yes, but in general, someone can run in and do their part without being part of a “group” and get some ok rewards.

Tequatl is a whole other animal, so to speak. Problems aside, those that successfully battle Teq are organized. One has to know what they’re doing in order to be a part of it, and one or two people who aren’t where they’re supposed to be, doing what they’re supposed to do can cause the whole thing to fail. One of the biggest examples of this is one inexperienced or afk person on a turret.

The rest of the “world events” are basically zergs that bring the bosses down in less time than it takes to zone in and tag them.

In any case, with the chest/box nerf, some of the “lesser” events simply aren’t worth hauling kitten to get to. If you happen to be there when it pops, go for it, but if someone says “Hey, SB is up,” and you’re halfway across the zone, you’ll never make it before it’s gone, and if you do run to catch him, you might get a few blues or greens, and not much else.

Edit: Seriously? they censored the big dragon in Blazeridge Steppes? Begins with S? ok…funny, but wrong…lol

SB is the only one that happens with now though, all the other world bosses were buffed so that it takes at least a few minutes to down them. Golem mk. 2 was the most well done IMHO.
Also you get at least one rare for sure from every world boss, some like FE and Jormag give you champ boxes and ones like Maw and SB usually have at least one other rare in the big chest…

rizzo.1079:

SB is the only one that happens with now though, all the other world bosses were buffed so that it takes at least a few minutes to down them. Golem mk. 2 was the most well done IMHO.

I did get to participate in that one, and yes, it has been well done. But the fact remains that you really don’t have to be in sync with the rest of the people to be able to succeed. You can run in on the fly and get into the battle without knowing who is on first, so to speak. Only Teq requires some active coordination and planning at this point. I am hoping as they upgrade the rest, we will see some more events that take a bit more than running in, spamming your DPS skills and staying out of the way of the boss.

I’m surprised they are not reversing this as they did with the Karma nerf for a brief period to let people open their boxes. This is pure speculation but after experiencing the Karma nerf, I can only think that anet knew pretty well there would be community backlash if they did not announce nerfs such as this ahead of time. The fact they continued ahead without announcement only leads me to believe that was their plan to begin with. They obviously have data on people who keep stacks of boxes unopened in their inventory… the data may have pointed to a large number of boxes unopened still

Bright.9160:

Zplus.4217:

Bright.9160:

Zplus.4217:

Beldin.5498:

thefantasticg.3984:

I love in this thread the “I don’t like the way you play the game. I’m glad they nerfed it so you don’t play the game how you want to.” replies. Fark you guys. I like to farm. I enjoy it. Quit trying to make me quit playing this game, Anet!

Yeah .. maybe its time to start a “nerf Dungeon rewards” Thread, since i don’t like Dungeons, so its time to nerf them also.

Especially the ones where people can just skip most of the stuff and get rewards for practically 0 skills. I wouldn’t really call that a fair reward system.

If it takes 0 skill, why don’t you do it?

Also, oh the irony… A champ train farmer complaining that dungeon running takes 0 skill. It’s almost painfully ironic…

You realize you have been showered with gold for 0 skill for months now, right?

0 skill dungeon skippers complaining about 0 skill champ farmers, oh the humanity.

Also, you do realise you have been showered with gold for 0 skill in dungeons SINCE launch now, right?

Except that champ farming is literally running around in circles and spamming your autoattack with not the slightest risk of casualties, whereas dungeons take skill and organization.

And secondly, dungeons were pretty unrewarding before they updated the reward system, and although they’re still not rewarding enough imo, they’re better than they were before.

Not to mention, some dungeon skips take more skill than you have to put in a week of champ farming.

I don’t think this is bout which farming method is better. Anet has been trying to make both dungeons and PvE more profitable while still skill is needed to do so. I don’t mind if it takes skill to farm. I’m not saying that champ boxes are the solution. But there should be good farms cause there are things in game you should grind. So far Anet has been introducing farms into the game, and always taking them away just cause they had side effects. They are basicly using us as lab-rats. Thats why I ask for a revert of this change and a CD bout farming. You guys are showing we are very capable off discussing on our own what farms are challenging and what farms are too easy. Anet is clearly struggling with it.

So. besides my earlier request a question to you all.

What do you think would be a good balanced farm?
I mean a farm where you can get money and items needed for the biggest grinds (e.g. legendary), while still needing to put in effort and skills?

I have some idea’s on my own, but I’ll let you all go first (dont want to dominate the discussion, i’m really interested in your answer to this question).

I cannot believe I’m going to say this.. but here it goes….
I kind of miss Cursed Shore, camps, and Plinxie poo.

/duckandcover

StinVec.3621:

John Smith.4610:

Hello all, I looked into this because we intended to have a release note for the changes to the champion loot.
We did modify the gold and bloodstone dust coming from champion bags, and a release note will be added shortly.
What I can tell you is that we made a mistake, this one fell through the cracks and I’m truly sorry. I’ve promised before that we won’t make stealthy economic changes without notes and I mean to stick to that promise.
Thank you all for pointing out the error, we will be more vigilant in the future.
Good luck in your adventures.

Hi, John Smith. I just wanted to point out that it has been two days since your comment and, as of this comment, the addition to the release notes has not happened yet.

I see that the addition to the release notes of this missing change has been added:

“This note was inadvertently left out of the original notes

• Adjusted coin and bloodstone dust drop chances in champion bags."

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-October-29-2013/3151720

However, this note is very ambiguous as to the type of change that was made. We all know it was a decrease in drop chance of ‘dust’ and coin amounts, but simply stating “adjusted” could be either increased or decreased. The note should clearly state that the amounts were decreased, not simply “adjusted”. Be clear with the ‘adjustment’ made and stand by this decision, don’t try to downplay it. If you make a change, state the change, leave ambiguous wording out of it. If you intend to inform, then inform. Be professional about it and you will be respected for it, even if the decision is not received well by many. Thank you.

great haven’t opened any orange champ bags and boxes because bloodstone dust takes to much space and now i missed out on a lot of gold have over 1.5k boxes only opened like 20 total

how hard is it for them to warn first

Champion rewards should scale based on how many participate in taking it down. If players still want to run with the train despite the fact that they will receive less reward than if they had few people (or solo), fine. To many it is about more than reward/bag farming and is actually about the socializing and they would have no problem running with the trains even though they will receive less reward per champ kill. But taking this route of penalizing every single player by lessening the reward for killing a champ across the board is a horrible idea.

One way to do this (without scaling rewards as it should be) that I would actually find pretty funny/appropriate, is if players received an image of a pitchfork above their heads (similar to the Kiel/Gnashblade support icons) after they were detected as having killed ‘X’ number of champions in a short period of time. If ArenaNet wanted to lessen the rewards given by champ loot bags to farmers only (without implementing reward scaling) then instead of lessening the champ loot for every champ killed by every person in the game (non-farmers included), this visual ‘Farmer Debuff’ could have served the same function without penalizing every player that kills a champion.

I think ‘farmers’ would have mixed feelings over the debuff as they would be torn between liking and wearing the visual icon as a badge, and hating it for the debuff to rewards it would give.

Of course, this also causes problems of farmers storing stacks of these loot bags until the debuff expired and then opening them. Perhaps limiting the champ loot bag stacks to non-stackable, or to only 5 per stack, would help prevent mass storage of them. If the bags are account bound right now, then another issue is of the ‘farmer’ being able to just switch to another character that does not have the debuff to open the bags. If they are account bound, then making them soul bound could be a solution to this if they are not already soul bound.

Just brainstorming half-thought out ideas that would achieve the same result ArenaNet tried to achieve with their reward reduction, but in a way that does not also penalize players killing a champ that is not part of a group farming them for no-risk rewards.

i don’t know how much you guys get from farming champs, but i’m getting 35gold guaranteed from my 4 hours other farming method…..

I think it’s funny when people expect to be rewarded for pressing 1-1-1-1-1. I mean really people, to beat one of the most dangerous threats to Tyria (Zhaitan) 5 people had to press 2 for half an hour!!! GOSH!!! (/sarcasm)

It seems that the devs and some people in the community will “punish” players who want to Zerg their way through the game. Devs tinker with drop rates all the time and players just verbally abuse players for not playing the same as them.

I personally think “trains” are just silly…. IMO you are not playing the game when running blindly behind someone smacking all the champs you come across. Yet the rewards are much more worth it than spending an hour in a dungeon for 1000 blues, 1 rare, and 1g.

The point is this game was Marketed as “play your way”. If I want to go through every inch of the world and explore I should be making just as much/hr as the “farm train”. That is a reward for me playing the game. If I spend an hour in a level 30 dungeon I should make a small amount more then the PvErs and farmers but not the same as the 5 man group that just beat Arah. Yet that is how it is and it’s broken period. I think that dungeon’s, WvW, Open world PvE, and even sPvP isn’t putting money in the bank for Anet. The silly backskins and limited time item Living Story junk in the Gem store is. That is why the Lion’s share of the Dev’s effort goes in to weak, unappealing Living story crap! Just my opinion

Ashabhi.1365:

rizzo.1079:

SB is the only one that happens with now though, all the other world bosses were buffed so that it takes at least a few minutes to down them. Golem mk. 2 was the most well done IMHO.

I did get to participate in that one, and yes, it has been well done. But the fact remains that you really don’t have to be in sync with the rest of the people to be able to succeed. You can run in on the fly and get into the battle without knowing who is on first, so to speak. Only Teq requires some active coordination and planning at this point. I am hoping as they upgrade the rest, we will see some more events that take a bit more than running in, spamming your DPS skills and staying out of the way of the boss.

I’m not, I like just being able to run in and participate in an event. If they make all the world events like Teq I will probably quit the game, because Teq is not fun.

Anet does not believe farming is a valid way to play the game. This is an objective fact. There is 7 years of GW1 nerfs and 1 year of GW2 nerfs that follows this trend. If you are a farmer then Anet does not want you playing the game, end of story.

So that’s why they gave us a month of champ farming in Southsun with 200%mf buff? Or the pavilion with a 100%+ mf boost?

Yeah a.net doesn’t care whether or not we farm as long as people still buy gems with money. A.net wants anyone who will buy gems with money to play their game because they’re a business.

Bright.9160:

Bright.9160:

If it takes 0 skill, why don’t you do it?

Also, oh the irony… A champ train farmer complaining that dungeon running takes 0 skill. It’s almost painfully ironic…

You realize you have been showered with gold for 0 skill for months now, right?

I still don’t get why they are still playing. Pressing 1 gets boring eventually, at least for me.

Because A: you don’t just press 1 and B: running a train isn’t something most people on it are doing for hours and hours and hours, they’re usually doing other things as well as the train with their time…

John Smith.4610:

Hello all, I looked into this because we intended to have a release note for the changes to the champion loot.
We did modify the gold and bloodstone dust coming from champion bags, and a release note will be added shortly.
What I can tell you is that we made a mistake, this one fell through the cracks and I’m truly sorry. I’ve promised before that we won’t make stealthy economic changes without notes and I mean to stick to that promise.
Thank you all for pointing out the error, we will be more vigilant in the future.
Good luck in your adventures.

A lot of us remember Anet doing testing on magic find during the southsun event with the 300% MF boost, if Anet was ever to nerf Account Bound MF would it be listed in patch notes, I’m just wondering if Anet see’s it as future economic changes?