Guild Wars 2

tagos.8946:

Necrochild.1497:

Cosmetic-only content that you have the option of spending in-game currency to acquire causes outrage.

I swear you guys are sheltered from every other MMO on the market, because you obviously aren’t aware of how good you actually have it.

Quoted for Truth. You want to see what sheer naked greed looks like try a Perfect World or Turbine game. The latter are famous for monetising game play by either completely turning them into store-only purchases or making the in-game grind completely outrageous.

Sure – the gem price for the new styles may be a little high if you can’t convert gold to gems. So I simply chose not to buy. I’ll spend my gems on more practical stuff when i need to.

The game needs to make money and as stores go this one isn’t bad at all.

urrghh you used the world Turbine…..
how I loved paying real money for game content on top of a sub, not.

Morrigan.2809:

urrghh you used the world Turbine…..
how I loved paying real money for game content on top of a sub, not.

They, in their Warner Brothers incarnation, are indeed a shocking company. You just wait until you see what they are doing with the Helm’s Deep expansion. I have and that’s why, after 6 years and a ton of money, I high-tailed it here.

Red Falcon.8257:

Clearly, this makes the game pay 2 win.
A rich guy can make a new char and instantly get an outstanding hair-fashion advantage. Everyone will say “oh! just look at his hair! we’ll kick that unstylish guy from the team and take him”.
I’d suggest a full-out forum riot over this.

LFM Arah explorable, must have special hair.

Evans.6347:

LFM Arah explorable, must have special hair.

Okay, that was funny. lol

phys.7689:

Devata.6589:

eisberg.2379:

Devata.6589:

Vol.5241:

MrRuin.9740:

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I don’t think that is true. You can have a select few mini’s in there, you can have unlocks like character slots and bank slots and you can have many more things where people will not complain about. People complain about thinks they think that should be in the game world or that are limited or that are RNG.

If they would have a focus on expansions for income they would be less forced to put these items in there but because they are focusing on cash-shop income they are forced to.

So I totally understand why Anet basically has to put them in there.. I am mainly (and have been for a while) complaining about the reason behind this.. And thats the F2P model that generates income with the gem-sore in stead of a B2P model that generates income with expansions.

they would be putting all the extra crap in the expansion, and how much new stuff you get outside of an expansion would be fairly limited. keep in mind GW1 had only 1 major content update outside of expansions for most of its life, it wasnt till the cash shop got more robust that they started doing the free story addition winds of change.

I would say they put in all the extra crap AND a decent amount of new stuff like a race, a few more maps, maybe mounts or guild houses.

I am pretty sure GW1 got 3 good expansion. I never hearth people complain about that those expansions where only crap and I know a lot of people that where very into GW1

Copestetic.5174:

Devata.6589:

Celestial.4381:

Devata.6589:

So I totally understand why Anet basically has to put them in there.. I am mainly (and have been for a while) complaining about the reason behind this.. And thats the F2P model that generates income with the gem-sore in stead of a B2P model that generates income with expansions.

The cash shop is a substitute source of income in lieu of paid subscriptions, not the income from expansion packs. I see no reason to believe that we won’t see some sort of large update (whether or not they call it an “expansion pack” or something else is academic at this point) eventually that we will have to pay for somehow.

Several games sell expacs in addition to having a cash shop nowadays. LOTRO does this, for example.

It is in GW2 but expansions can easily be used as an substitute source of income in lieu of paid subscriptions (I would not call it an substitute because that makes it seem like if a subscription is the standard but oke). Anet was not planning on an expansion so there main income was supposed to be the cash-shop. Because of many complains they said to rethink that decision but no word about it after that.

That other games do it different.. that might be. WoW asks gets money with subscription, box sales and a cash-shop (not a cash-shop focus as GW2 but they make money with it anyway) but that does not yet make it good or the way to go for any other game.

I have played LotR a little but not enough to really know they cash-shop focus. I do know that there are some thinks you unlock one time to then always have available so LotrO might indeed be B2P game that generates income mainly by expansions. Maybe not I do not know but there are multiple ways to do something and a focus on a expansions is the best in my opinion. That does not mean a cash-shop is not allowed it’s the focus we are talking about here. (I did buy LotrO back then because I checked out there payment model and back then it did seem to be more of a B2P model then a F2P model but you can’t really know that for sure untill you play it for a while. I did not play it very long because I did not like the game that much)

In GW2 we see many decision really being based on the idea around selling gems. It’s not just that once in a while they add some nice new things to there cash-shop.

Then people like yourself should have an ample amount of gold to trade-off for Gems.

Yes thats true, thats one of the reason why they use temporary available stuff and put in a lot of things. It’s not only to create a sense of urgency (however that is the biggest reason) it’s also so most people don’t have the gold to convert to gems to buy everything. But I am not sure what your point is here.

People will still spend money on it but it would indeed be less. Everything they do now it to maximize the income from the gem-store but with a focus on expansions and not on the gem-store they would do everything to maximize the income on expansions and the income from the gem-store may be less as it has no focus.

Thats the whole idea so I really don’t get your point here.

Copestetic.5174:

ArmoredVehicle.2849:

First of all I’d like to say, this is perfectly fine for me and ANet has to make money somehow (I don’t agree on everything they do for the most part so don’t bother thinking I’m an ANet evangelist).

The Kit costs only 250 gems which equals a mere 13 gold currently, you have the option to get everything in the gem store for free unlike most F2P mmos so stop being childish.

For those familiar with dungeons they should know how easy it is to make money now.

A short math below if you please:

CoF P1 = 1g, HoTW P1 = 1g, AC P3 = 1.5g, CoE P1/2/3 = 1g Per Path, Doing all these daily totals for 6.5 gold + another 1.44 gold from the 24 silver and 20 Empyreal Fragments. For a total of almost 8 gold EXCLUDING drops.

Making money in this game is way too easy, standing around LA won’t make you rich.

I agree. Staying on the forums complaining about it isn’t going to net you that kit either.

But it helps more that going with it. You can let them know here and don’t buy gems for money and maybe get friends to not buy gems for money. Of all the options that will not work very well this might still work the best. And if it would not work but GW2 losing many players because of this behavior at-least you can then say.. I told you so. Thats also worth something.

Celestial.4381:

Devata.6589:

I have played LotR a little but not enough to really know they cash-shop focus. I do know that there are some thinks you unlock one time to then always have available so LotrO might indeed be B2P game that generates income mainly by expansions. Maybe not I do not know but there are multiple ways to do something and a focus on a expansions is the best in my opinion. That does not mean a cash-shop is not allowed it’s the focus we are talking about here. (I did buy LotrO back then because I checked out there payment model and back then it did seem to be more of a B2P model then a F2P model but you can’t really know that for sure untill you play it for a while. I did not play it very long because I did not like the game that much)

In GW2 we see many decision really being based on the idea around selling gems. It’s not just that once in a while they add some nice new things to there cash-shop.

LOTRO went in BIG time with the cash shop system after the success it became in Turbine’s other big game, DDO. Actually, the way they do it, you can also subscribe to get “VIP” status and unlock some account features (which you can also buy in the Turbine Store a la carte). The initial release is free, but everyone must buy expansions (now called “quest packs”) in order to play the full content of the game. There were definitely players who were not happy with the decision to bring in a cash shop and go hybrid-F2P with expansions on top of all that, but player numbers did apparently go up after the switch. So for LOTRO, the system works (for now, at least…)

The main reason that I’m skeptical that ANet would focus ONLY on the gem store content is that this approach does little to bring new players into the game. If the gem store stuff is good/shiny enough, it might retain existing ones (the Living Story is also an attempt to retain players). Expansions (or updates equivalent to expansions) DO bring in new players, so I would expect them to eventually release a major update of some sort.

At any rate, I disagree that the main focus of the devs even now is on gem store content. I mean, what’s on there? Account upgrades/services (which every game has), boosters, convenience items (each one merely replacing a single NPC function or existing item, such as the gathering tools), minis (which there are plenty of in-game already), a few armor skins, and now some hairstyles (via the self-style kits). Nothing essential (yet, and hopefully never), and IMO exceeded by what we’ve gotten for free thus far through the LS updates (not that every LS update has been exceptional in terms of gameplay, but it’s quite obvious that a lot of work went into creating areas like Zephyr Sanctum).

If anything, my concern is that it’s the temporary content that’s taking focus away from full-fledged expansion-type content such as new landmasses, races, and professions. I’d gladly take just one LS update a month or every six weeks if I knew there was a larger, more permanent update around the corner.

The main focus on the gem-store is at a higher level as the developers but look at your last paragraph. You mainly don’t like the Living story because you are afraid it will take time away from a real good permanent update (like an expansion?).

I don’t like the gem-store focus precisely because of this sort of results. Don’t you see the connections? The Living Story is there to get people to log in and buy gems. From a financial viewpoint thats the main reason for it being there jut as temporary stiff and this hair stuff in the gem-store and so on. With a focus on expansion they would invest more time in that big update and less in something like we have with the living story. Priorities change and imo for the best.

It’s not the gem-store itself that I don’t like.. I will not buy anything from it anyway so financially for me I should be in favor of it. But it’s what comes with it that I do not like.

Same as the hair.. thats one of those examples, and personally I don’t care at all about hair options. I would most likely not change it even it it was free and yes if I would create a new char I might pick one of the new ones if I like them but I won’t miss the them now they are not there.

It’s the type of behavior (that I 100% understand from a financial standpoint when having a cash-shop for main income) that I do not like and where I am talking about.

eisberg.2379:

Devata.6589:

eisberg.2379:

Devata.6589:

Vol.5241:

MrRuin.9740:

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I’m honestly surprised that the complainers are surprised that there is a cash shop in game.

It’s as if they are patiently waiting the day when Anet announces that they are not going to be continuing with the gem shop. I really wonder what their expectations are.

I haven’t seen those complainers to be honest.

I think what he is basically saying is that everytime Anet puts something new in the store, something not needed for the game at all, and people are complaining that it is in the store instead of giving it for free.

I don’t think that is true. You can have a select few mini’s in there, you can have unlocks like character slots and bank slots and you can have many more things where people will not complain about. People complain about thinks they think that should be in the game world or that are limited or that are RNG.

If they would have a focus on expansions for income they would be less forced to put these items in there but because they are focusing on cash-shop income they are forced to.

So I totally understand why Anet basically has to put them in there.. I am mainly (and have been for a while) complaining about the reason behind this.. And thats the F2P model that generates income with the gem-sore in stead of a B2P model that generates income with expansions.

Guild Wars 2 is the first Buy to Play MMO, there is no B2P MMO that uses Expansions to generate income. Anet would rather they give us the content with no additional charge, instead of charging us for expansions. IMO, this system they are doing now is far better than charging for expansions. Everything they have been adding to the store has no real effect on the game, new hair styles is purely cosmetic and it certainly belongs as a gem store item and is nothing wrong with it being a store item, people are not entitled to free cosmetic stuff just because. And just because is basically what it comes down to. And yes, people have complained about everything in the store, from dyes, to bag slots, to character slots, to skins, to XP boosters, literally the only thing people have not complained about in the store are services like name changes.

“Everything they have been adding to the store has no real effect on the game” the stuff they have been adding has by itself for the most part no real effect on the game. But the decisions they make to get people to buy gem (what you get when you focus on gems) has a big effect on the game.

Collecting mini’s is not really fun in this game because they are mainly available in temporary events or are only available in the gemstore so it’s getting money and buying gems to get them or farming gold, getting gems to then buy them or buy them from the trading post. And collecting pets (well going in the world, finding them, fighting bosses that drop them and so on) is for many people an important part from an mmo.

The temporary nature of the living story is because of the gemstore gem-sotre focus. There is no barber so you can change your haircut every week because of the gem-store focus, the gold-driven system is because of the gem-store focus because if people could better farm what they need and so gold would be less useful the gem to gold would be less interesting, a lesser focus on WvW is because of the gem-store (harder to get something those people want from the gem-store anyway without it being P2W). So the impact is very big even if the items by itself available in the gem-store are not.

You may still like the more F2P approach (so focus on cash-shop in stead of on expansions). But I don’t and I see many people complain about effects of this like the living story.

eisberg.2379:

Ellisande.5218:

eisberg.2379:

Devata.6589:

Because GW2 is not really a B2P game that focuses in sale of the game and expansions for income but more of a F2P game (that you need to buy) that focuses on cash-shop as income.

So now they do this sort of bad thinks to make money.

Try not to buy any gems, that might help them to shift back to a real B2P system where everything is available ingame but where you pay for an expansion every year year and a half.

What real B2P MMOs are there out there? Please do not say Guild Wars 1, that is in fact not an MMO, so it doesn’t count and cannot be used as an example since they are 2 different genre of games.

Guild Wars 1 is in fact a B2P MMO.

Just because you don’t know what a MMO is doesn’t mean GW 1 isn’t a MMO. It just means you don’t know what a MMO is.

Arenanet must not know what MMOs are either

Rather than labeling Guild Wars an MMORPG, we prefer to call it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role-Playing Game). Guild Wars was designed from the ground up to create the best possible competitive role-playing experience

Also from the Official Wiki:

Guild Wars is a CORPG, or Competitive/Cooperative Online Role Playing Game developed for Windows by ArenaNet and published by NCsoft

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars

Doesn’t matter if other people call it an MMO, when the developers themselves did not call it an MMO and marketed it it as not being an MMO but rather as a CORPG. Therefore judging on how an MMO does thing compared to something that is of a different genre is not fair, and irrelevant.

I also don’t see GW1 as a MMORPG. But it has some similarities and that is that they host many people at once (maybe in different instances but still they need the servers to do so) and it’s something that can run for years, needs getting patches and attention for an ongoing period.

And it are these aspects people are referring to when they say a specific payment model fits or does not fit an MMO. So in the discussion if GW1 proves that GW2 also could work as B2P (so focus on expansions) yes it does.

GW1 is mainly from a gameplay viewpoint not an MMO. Technically is has very, very similar aspects and fits in the same category.

The exclusive hairstyles/hair colors are exclusive to make-over kits and hairstyle kits.

Standard hairstyles/hair colors (of which there are numerous) are available at character creation and were included with your game purchase.

There are a few items that I did not agree with in the gem store such as the Infinite Continue Coin and the Instant Retrait Stone (which is insulting). The addition of exclusive hairstyles is really not that bad, imo…

Astral Projections.7320:

For those who think that these new hairstyles should be included in character creation now and be free.

That’s fine for all the new accounts or for old accounts who want to make a new character. Otherwise, old accounts are going to have to purchase the kits. Don’t you think that people who have already have level 80s wouldn’t complain about this? The forums would go ballistic if new people got these for free and old accounts didn’t. They can get these for free with ingame gold now and people are complaining.

So what would ANet have to do to make the complainers happy? Mail out kits for every character slot you have? After all, you might want to change each one. And why about when/if more hairstyles come out? Or new faces? Should ANet mail out additional hair and total makeover kits each time they make more options? To everyone that has ever bought the game and one for each character slot?

ANet is offering a non essential vanity upgrade. An upgrade that was not included in the initial purchase price. If it was your business, and you included a vanity upgrade on an item would you give your work away for free to every one of the millions of people who had bought the basic package a year before? What would you say to a customer who told you that you should have done this work a year ago and in addition, it should be free now?

Everyone of course wants free items. I want free items myself. But you have to consider it from the point of view of the business. its not reasonable to expect a business to do work and then hand it over for free. I very much doubt that many of the people complaining here works for free on a regular basis.

So what would ANet have to do to make the complainers happy?
Put a barber in the game-world where you can go to change your hair for 15 silver.

Income can then come from expansions.

captaincrash.6528:

I thought it was pretty universally accepted that cash shops are fine if they’re purely cosmetic and not pay 2 win, now bam, 3 hair styles per character is outrageous and ANet must be talking out of their kitten .

You can buy the makeover thing for like 12 gold or something, it’s not even expensive, you don’t have to pay REAL money to get it, and even if you did it equals to like $3 or something, oh the horror!

Would you rather hair styles behind a pay wall or new utility skills behind a pay wall?

I thought it was pretty universally accepted that cash shops are fine if they’re purely cosmetic
Then you thought wrong.

“Would you rather hair styles behind a pay wall or new utility skills behind a pay wall?”
If that pay wall would be a big expansion where this was part of.. Yes!

Ashen.2907:

Devata.6589:

a cash shop or a subscription fee.

Well thats one of the common ones indeed. But Anet used cash shop and initial box sale. So thats not common. GW1 was also not common as it used box sale and expansions. Exactlywhat GW2 also should have done because both cash shop and subscription are not as good as B2P.

The main reason Anet and GW1 became big was because of this model and many people went for GW2 thinking it would have a similar system.

GW1 had a cash shop that included cosmetic options as well.

GW2: box sale + cash shop + no sub fee

GW1: box sale + cash shop + no sub fee

I am not sure where the disconnect on the concept of paying for something you want comes from, particularly since you do not have to pay with real money.

It’s the focus we are talking about. GW1 clairly had a focus on the expansion. I don’t say Anet should remove the cash-shop I say they should move there focus.

For GW2 they are not even yet sure if they are going to release expansions. That shows how much there focus in on the cash shop.

“I am not sure where the disconnect on the concept of paying for something you want comes from” and this line is just stupid as I have been saying I want expansions in about every comment here, and guess what.. you need to pay for them. So there is no disconnect on the concept of paying for something you want.

Red Falcon.8257:

Clearly, this makes the game pay 2 win.
A rich guy can make a new char and instantly get an outstanding hair-fashion advantage. Everyone will say “oh! just look at his hair! we’ll kick that unstylish guy from the team and take him”.
I’d suggest a full-out forum riot over this.

Because you can have a non cosmetic advantage by having this hairstyle…

Morrigan.2809:

Ashen.2907:

Devata.6589:

a cash shop or a subscription fee.

Well thats one of the common ones indeed. But Anet used cash shop and initial box sale. So thats not common. GW1 was also not common as it used box sale and expansions. Exactlywhat GW2 also should have done because both cash shop and subscription are not as good as B2P.

The main reason Anet and GW1 became big was because of this model and many people went for GW2 thinking it would have a similar system.

GW1 had a cash shop that included cosmetic options as well.

GW2: box sale + cash shop + no sub fee

GW1: box sale + cash shop + no sub fee

I am not sure where the disconnect on the concept of paying for something you want comes from, particularly since you do not have to pay with real money.

It comes from the fact that he does not like the Living Story and blames the gem shop for it.
He claims an expansion is the only reasonable way for a BtP game to make money.

What he seems to never take into account is that we will have everything you get in an expansion i.e new maps,races, classes, skills, traits, etc. Anet has just not decided how they want to bring it into the game.

but you know- gems shop is evil- dun-dun dun-dun

It’s not just the living story as a matter of fact this topic itself is not about the LS but about one of the many other negatives about a cash-shop focus.

I do take into accound that we will get those things.. Please quote me where I say that I think we don’t get them! But we also get the negatives that I don’t want and I think are bad for the game.

“but you know- gems shop is evil”
No. A focus on the gem-shop is evil- dun-dun dun-dun

knives.6345:

Red Falcon.8257:

Clearly, this makes the game pay 2 win.
A rich guy can make a new char and instantly get an outstanding hair-fashion advantage. Everyone will say “oh! just look at his hair! we’ll kick that unstylish guy from the team and take him”.
I’d suggest a full-out forum riot over this.

Because you can have a non cosmetic advantage by having this hairstyle…

You’re sharp, Knives.

Red Falcon.8257:

Clearly, this makes the game pay 2 win.
A rich guy can make a new char and instantly get an outstanding hair-fashion advantage. Everyone will say “oh! just look at his hair! we’ll kick that unstylish guy from the team and take him”.
I’d suggest a full-out forum riot over this.

P2W is only an issue on the PvP aspect and you know.. for many players PvP is not the main aspect… In GW2 PvP is not even the main issue.

The gameplay is and decision made around the gem-store do effect the gameplay.

Evans.6347:

knives.6345:

Red Falcon.8257:

Clearly, this makes the game pay 2 win.
A rich guy can make a new char and instantly get an outstanding hair-fashion advantage. Everyone will say “oh! just look at his hair! we’ll kick that unstylish guy from the team and take him”.
I’d suggest a full-out forum riot over this.

Because you can have a non cosmetic advantage by having this hairstyle…

You’re sharp, Knives.

I understand it’s sarcasm. I just want to reply. lol

tagos.8946:

Necrochild.1497:

Cosmetic-only content that you have the option of spending in-game currency to acquire causes outrage.

I swear you guys are sheltered from every other MMO on the market, because you obviously aren’t aware of how good you actually have it.

Quoted for Truth. You want to see what sheer naked greed looks like try a Perfect World or Turbine game. The latter are famous for monetising game play by either completely turning them into store-only purchases or making the in-game grind completely outrageous.

Sure – the gem price for the new styles may be a little high if you can’t convert gold to gems. So I simply chose not to buy. I’ll spend my gems on more practical stuff when i need to.

The game needs to make money and as stores go this one isn’t bad at all.

So if some other game does it worse then it’s oke? That lets me think about politics where some politics always say people should not complain because compared to Africa we really have it pretty good. Personally I want to see how it can be even better but heey, everybody may has it’s own view on things.

Now I do wonder.. if you have kids and they would come home with bad grades if that would be fine if multiple classmates have even lower grades?

b3cause le gems xdxd

Mank.2183:

They need money to keep giving you free content, how self entitled can you get.

Came to the post mad, but then I realized how right you are. I bought a total makeover for 15gold that I earned in an hour or two and now have the sylvarri ponytail/dreads hairstyle.

Play the game and earn the content that someone put time into. Anet did nothing wrong with this action. How self entitled can you get?

Jon.1376:

Mank.2183:

They need money to keep giving you free content, how self entitled can you get.

Came to the post mad, but then I realized how right you are. I bought a total makeover for 15gold that I earned in an hour or two and now have the sylvarri ponytail/dreads hairstyle.

Play the game and earn the content that someone put time into. Anet did nothing wrong with this action. How self entitled can you get?

Or they could make money with expansions.

knives.6345:

Evans.6347:

knives.6345:

Red Falcon.8257:

Clearly, this makes the game pay 2 win.
A rich guy can make a new char and instantly get an outstanding hair-fashion advantage. Everyone will say “oh! just look at his hair! we’ll kick that unstylish guy from the team and take him”.
I’d suggest a full-out forum riot over this.

Because you can have a non cosmetic advantage by having this hairstyle…

You’re sharp, Knives.

I understand it’s sarcasm. I just want to reply. lol

I just wanted to make a word play on your name, think nothing more of it.

Devata.6589:

Jon.1376:

Mank.2183:

They need money to keep giving you free content, how self entitled can you get.

Came to the post mad, but then I realized how right you are. I bought a total makeover for 15gold that I earned in an hour or two and now have the sylvarri ponytail/dreads hairstyle.

Play the game and earn the content that someone put time into. Anet did nothing wrong with this action. How self entitled can you get?

Or they could make money with expansions.

They can and will, I see no reason they shouldn’t do both. I agree with there methods in this instance.

Why wouldn’t you take advantage of someone with extra money and little patients? If someone wants to cut line at six flags they pay for a special pass, its the same here. You can pay for your gold/gems if you don’t wanna wait.

But

As far as the original reasoning of said post, they do this to take advantage of peoples with extra money but they still offer their services for “labor” if you don’t have the cash.

Playing the game is labor lmfao QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ

Devata.6589:

captaincrash.6528:

I thought it was pretty universally accepted that cash shops are fine if they’re purely cosmetic and not pay 2 win, now bam, 3 hair styles per character is outrageous and ANet must be talking out of their kitten .

You can buy the makeover thing for like 12 gold or something, it’s not even expensive, you don’t have to pay REAL money to get it, and even if you did it equals to like $3 or something, oh the horror!

Would you rather hair styles behind a pay wall or new utility skills behind a pay wall?

I thought it was pretty universally accepted that cash shops are fine if they’re purely cosmetic
Then you thought wrong.

“Would you rather hair styles behind a pay wall or new utility skills behind a pay wall?”
If that pay wall would be a big expansion where this was part of.. Yes!

I would rather have hair styles behind a pay wall, and have new content to look forward to every 2 weeks that I do not have to pay for. Doing this living story stuff is far superior than having an expansion.

Devata.6589:

Jon.1376:

Mank.2183:

They need money to keep giving you free content, how self entitled can you get.

Came to the post mad, but then I realized how right you are. I bought a total makeover for 15gold that I earned in an hour or two and now have the sylvarri ponytail/dreads hairstyle.

Play the game and earn the content that someone put time into. Anet did nothing wrong with this action. How self entitled can you get?

Or they could make money with expansions.

Because expansions are being released every day…

Devata.6589:

tagos.8946:

Necrochild.1497:

Cosmetic-only content that you have the option of spending in-game currency to acquire causes outrage.

I swear you guys are sheltered from every other MMO on the market, because you obviously aren’t aware of how good you actually have it.

Quoted for Truth. You want to see what sheer naked greed looks like try a Perfect World or Turbine game. The latter are famous for monetising game play by either completely turning them into store-only purchases or making the in-game grind completely outrageous.

Sure – the gem price for the new styles may be a little high if you can’t convert gold to gems. So I simply chose not to buy. I’ll spend my gems on more practical stuff when i need to.

The game needs to make money and as stores go this one isn’t bad at all.

So if some another game does it worse then it’s oke. That lets me think about politics where some politics always say people should not complain because compared to Africa we really have it pretty good. Personally I want to see how it can be even better but heey, everybody may has it’s own view on things.

Now I do wonder.. if you have kids and they would come home with bad grades if that would be fine if multiple classmates have even lower grades?

Wow. Great analogy.

But yes – I think the GW Store is absolutely fine. I am not forced to buy anything to circumvent restrictions added into the game to force me into the store to buy it like Turbine do.

I don’t have to pay over a $100 to get an essential weapon for PvP like in Neverwinter.

All I have to do is decide whether or not to buy some cosmetics or bank service or some other pure convenience item. So yea – comparing a perfectly fine Store to Stores run by crooked companies is working out real fine for me. There’s nothing much wrong with this Store.

If you want cosmetics pay for them in gems or earn the gold. If a company can continue to support and develop this great game by the voluntary contributions of cosmetic buyers then I’m totally in favour.

Devata.6589:

The main focus on the gem-store is at a higher level as the developers but look at your last paragraph. You mainly don’t like the Living story because you are afraid it will take time away from a real good permanent update (like an expansion?).

I don’t like the gem-store focus precisely because of this sort of results. Don’t you see the connections? The Living Story is there to get people to log in and buy gems. From a financial viewpoint thats the main reason for it being there jut as temporary stiff and this hair stuff in the gem-store and so on. With a focus on expansion they would invest more time in that big update and less in something like we have with the living story. Priorities change and imo for the best.

It’s not the gem-store itself that I don’t like.. I will not buy anything from it anyway so financially for me I should be in favor of it. But it’s what comes with it that I do not like.

Same as the hair.. thats one of those examples, and personally I don’t care at all about hair options. I would most likely not change it even it it was free and yes if I would create a new char I might pick one of the new ones if I like them but I won’t miss the them now they are not there.

It’s the type of behavior (that I 100% understand from a financial standpoint when having a cash-shop for main income) that I do not like and where I am talking about.

I don’t fret about the gem store because I honestly don’t think it’s siphoning away significant developer resources from potential expansion content, at least in its current form. I really don’t think the developers invest as much time in it as you think they do. There’s a lot of flash there, but the actual stuff you can buy just doesn’t DO much. There aren’t any maps or skills or races or any other complex content available there.

And I DO like the Living Story. Not every single update has been fantastic, IMO, but we’ve had some interesting ones. But if they intend to release stuff like new races, professions, landmasses, etc. as part of the LS updates, then I’d prefer that they go ahead and work on THAT as opposed to temporary-only content. And it wouldn’t be that hard to incorporate new stuff into the LS plot. Want to introduce the Tengu as the newest race, for example? Have Scarlet or whoever attack the Dominion of the Four Winds, driving its citizens out and culminating in all the races storming in from Lion’s Arch to re-take the city. LS is nice and all, we just need more meat.

Devata.6589:

eisberg.2379:

Ellisande.5218:

eisberg.2379:

Devata.6589:

Because GW2 is not really a B2P game that focuses in sale of the game and expansions for income but more of a F2P game (that you need to buy) that focuses on cash-shop as income.

So now they do this sort of bad thinks to make money.

Try not to buy any gems, that might help them to shift back to a real B2P system where everything is available ingame but where you pay for an expansion every year year and a half.

What real B2P MMOs are there out there? Please do not say Guild Wars 1, that is in fact not an MMO, so it doesn’t count and cannot be used as an example since they are 2 different genre of games.

Guild Wars 1 is in fact a B2P MMO.

Just because you don’t know what a MMO is doesn’t mean GW 1 isn’t a MMO. It just means you don’t know what a MMO is.

Arenanet must not know what MMOs are either

Rather than labeling Guild Wars an MMORPG, we prefer to call it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role-Playing Game). Guild Wars was designed from the ground up to create the best possible competitive role-playing experience

Also from the Official Wiki:

Guild Wars is a CORPG, or Competitive/Cooperative Online Role Playing Game developed for Windows by ArenaNet and published by NCsoft

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars

Doesn’t matter if other people call it an MMO, when the developers themselves did not call it an MMO and marketed it it as not being an MMO but rather as a CORPG. Therefore judging on how an MMO does thing compared to something that is of a different genre is not fair, and irrelevant.

I also don’t see GW1 as a MMORPG. But it has some similarities and that is that they host many people at once (maybe in different instances but still they need the servers to do so) and it’s something that can run for years, needs getting patches and attention for an ongoing period.

And it are these aspects people are referring to when they say a specific payment model fits or does not fit an MMO. So in the discussion if GW1 proves that GW2 also could work as B2P (so focus on expansions) yes it does.

GW1 is mainly from a gameplay viewpoint not an MMO. Technically is has very, very similar aspects and fits in the same category.

Guild Wars 1 might not have been able to survive if launched today though. No one really knows that.

When Guild Wars originally launched, every single other multiplayer fantasy game had a subscription. There weren’t dozens of free to play games everywhere you look. There weren’t even mobas. There was nothing in the multiplayer free to play market to compete. So of course they did well. They were alone in their niche.

But if that same game with that same strategy launched today, there’s no way you, or anyone, can know if it would be successful.

It’s really dangerous for any business in a fast changing area of business to depend on examples more than a couple of years old. This business changes way too fast for that to be of particular use.

Saviourslave.6715:

What is up with that? They are new hair styles added to the game, why would you lock them behind gem-purchases…? I’m sorry, I defend Anet alot lately but this is just nonsense. My fiance and I both opened up one of our char slots just in anticipation of the new hair styles…. now we’re just… dismayed, speechless, and quite disgusted.

This is not a new thing, and it was well to be expected. When the change kits first came into the game, they introduced unique hair colors and eye colors exclusive to those kits (i.e. not in character customization from start).

You also get a free kit -and free Gems- at your 5,000 Achievement point threshold, as well as your 10,000 point threshold.

artsed.9702:

“Just let me pay for expansions if you want my money and stop this sort of things. If I like that I would have gone for a F2P game that also did not charge money for the initial game.”

This is my problem, too. The idea of a “living story” is alright, but the fact that they have to subsidize it in ridiculous ways is just not fun.

As someone who was very excited for the hairstyles, and an avid dungeoner, I’ve never been so hopeful for a patch before but let down so darned hard.

I was planning on buying a hairstyle kit to get one of them on my existing characters; I don’t think I will now, because I don’t really want to support that kind of design.

Wait…the idea of piecemeal content every two weeks for “free” is good to you; but the OPTION of supporting it via purchasing cosmetic/fluff items is somehow ‘wrong’? Please, clarify this position.

I’m very confused on your stance of first saying “I was planning on buying a hairstyle kit to get one of them…….. I don’t think I will now,” . That makes no sense. It’s $3 per kit [if you purchase Gems instead of converting gold], which is so little for something such as a permanent avatar skin change. Compared to other games, which costs ridiculous for these sorts of things (see League of Legends, see WoW)

But as mentioned above, the gold-to-Gem transfer rate allows everything to be purchased in-game. This means that paying $$ is completely optional with supporting the developers.

Also, if they did an expansion with these kind of things, you’d be FORCED to purchase the expansion to get the new hair styles you’re wanting, at a cost of $40-60. And since expansions are bundled content packs, you’d not have the Living Story -or much of any content- for an extended period of time until the Expansion comes out. Now if they do an Expansion on top of the Living Story, then it’s great for the gamers because we’ve had content flows to keep the game fresh while waiting for other content (that we cannot know and is completely speculation on the tight-lipped developers, for good reason because of the hyperbole customer-players).

They could add fluffy kittens as free permanent minipets and someone would still find a reason to complain about.

Before release, we all agreed upon that this kind of sales is the right kind of cash shop monetization strategy for the franchise, as contrasted for example by tangible gameplay advantages or dramatic shortcuts like found in most F2P MMOs. In fact, there was quite a pressure from the fans on ANet for this.

Deal with it.

champ.7021:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

I’m kinda glad they’re only available in the kits. It would be unfair that new players get to pick these hairstyles while the people who created their characters at launch get shafted.

Yes why should someone who joins the game a year after release have access to more options than someone who bought the game right away?

Why should someone who joined the game a year after release get something for free that I have to pay for?

Atleast with it being on a cash shop item, everybody has to pay. I’d rather that than new players get it for free and older players pay.

Jamais vu.5284:

They could add fluffy kittens as free permanent minipets and someone would still find a reason to complain about.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mini_White_Kitten

luckily, I don’t think anyone did complain

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Jamais vu.5284:

They could add fluffy kittens as free permanent minipets and someone would still find a reason to complain about.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mini_White_Kitten

luckily, I don’t think anyone did complain

Actually if I remember right they did, because of the price and it being temporary -.-

Red Falcon.8257:

Clearly, this makes the game pay 2 win.
A rich guy can make a new char and instantly get an outstanding hair-fashion advantage. Everyone will say “oh! just look at his hair! we’ll kick that unstylish guy from the team and take him”.
I’d suggest a full-out forum riot over this.

Clearly, I would so kick non-fashionistas

Devata.6589:

Astral Projections.7320:

For those who think that these new hairstyles should be included in character creation now and be free.

That’s fine for all the new accounts or for old accounts who want to make a new character. Otherwise, old accounts are going to have to purchase the kits. Don’t you think that people who have already have level 80s wouldn’t complain about this? The forums would go ballistic if new people got these for free and old accounts didn’t. They can get these for free with ingame gold now and people are complaining.

So what would ANet have to do to make the complainers happy? Mail out kits for every character slot you have? After all, you might want to change each one. And why about when/if more hairstyles come out? Or new faces? Should ANet mail out additional hair and total makeover kits each time they make more options? To everyone that has ever bought the game and one for each character slot?

ANet is offering a non essential vanity upgrade. An upgrade that was not included in the initial purchase price. If it was your business, and you included a vanity upgrade on an item would you give your work away for free to every one of the millions of people who had bought the basic package a year before? What would you say to a customer who told you that you should have done this work a year ago and in addition, it should be free now?

Everyone of course wants free items. I want free items myself. But you have to consider it from the point of view of the business. its not reasonable to expect a business to do work and then hand it over for free. I very much doubt that many of the people complaining here works for free on a regular basis.

So what would ANet have to do to make the complainers happy?
Put a barber in the game-world where you can go to change your hair for 15 silver.

Income can then come from expansions.

so would you be happy if they put in for 15 gold, imagine these hairs are not designed as newbie hairs, but advanced hair, like tier 3 armor.

the big difference here, is this hair is not supposed to be a basic option for newbs. Its supposed to be the special boutique hair.

and you replied to me earlier, im not saying gw1 expansions were crap, i was just using the word crap as a general term for stuff, the point is:

in GW1 by and large you got no new content for a year while they developed expansion. If you only bought factions, the content stayed the same for like 5 or 6 years. no new gears, no new armors, no new bosses. Same with elona. Only prophecies had content added, and that was essentially stuff they intended to have with ship, but took more time.
If you didnt buy the next expansion you had no access to any of the content, the faces, the hairs, the armors, nothing. you couldnt play with people who didnt have the same expansion as you.

so the option you present as better, is that you wait 1 year for all new content, no one who doesnt buy the expansion has any access to any of that content, everyone must buy.

Now i didnt mind gw1, i enjoyed factions and elona and eye of the north. But to say that it is definitively better and more value for the customer is honestly a lie. I have a friend who has bought literally no gems at all in the game. He has backpacks, uses exp boosters, and black lion kits, can play all the content i can play, etc. Its a different business model, but overall it gives even more bang for your buck.

My main problem is not the business plan, its the execution of new content. The thing they are currently not handling well with the new plan is not cosmetics such as this, which is handled pretty well, allowing every one access through in game gold, but the actual content itself is pretty poorly implemented and fitting into the world and story. factions and elona and eye of the north were way better in that respect.

A very lazy thought; what if there were a Baby’s First Makeover Kit available for REAL LOW CHEAP, which you can only use below a certain level, like the Transmutation Stones? Exactly the same as the regular Makeover Kit, but costs 50-100 gems each, and you can only use it while you’re under level 30.

I say that the new hairstyles should be included in character creation, kind of like Aion Online.

Lunar Sunset.8742:

Red Falcon.8257:

Clearly, this makes the game pay 2 win.
A rich guy can make a new char and instantly get an outstanding hair-fashion advantage. Everyone will say “oh! just look at his hair! we’ll kick that unstylish guy from the team and take him”.
I’d suggest a full-out forum riot over this.

Clearly, I would so kick non-fashionistas

You guys need to learn to /sarcasm. On these forums, someone is bound to take you seriously.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Still trying to determine how this is so much worse than Anet locking cross campaign looks behind the makeover kit in GW1. People were fine with that…. but suddenly a similar thing here isn’t? At least here, you can convert gold to gems and get it, in GW1 there is no such thing. It’s fork over $10 or gfy….

Yeah, I wonder why no one cared in GW1. I wonder.

Jon.1376:

Devata.6589:

Jon.1376:

Mank.2183:

They need money to keep giving you free content, how self entitled can you get.

Came to the post mad, but then I realized how right you are. I bought a total makeover for 15gold that I earned in an hour or two and now have the sylvarri ponytail/dreads hairstyle.

Play the game and earn the content that someone put time into. Anet did nothing wrong with this action. How self entitled can you get?

Or they could make money with expansions.

They can and will, I see no reason they shouldn’t do both. I agree with there methods in this instance.

Why wouldn’t you take advantage of someone with extra money and little patients? If someone wants to cut line at six flags they pay for a special pass, its the same here. You can pay for your gold/gems if you don’t wanna wait.

But

As far as the original reasoning of said post, they do this to take advantage of peoples with extra money but they still offer their services for “labor” if you don’t have the cash.

Playing the game is labor lmfao QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ

They could do both as long as they then focus on the expansions thats fine. When they would keep the focus on the gems you keep having the same crap as now.

The question should not be.. why can’t get new chars the new hairstyles. The question should be.. why don’t we have an ingame barber that does your hair. Thats the better solution game wise.

Answer is because they won’t make money that way and they are now making money with the gem-store so this is the way they do it.

And there you see a decision that is for the worse for the game (no barber) based on the focus on gem-sales. And that my friend is my point.

People with the extra money shout understand this and might better not spend there money on gems but on expansions. Just like I suggest.

People with the extra money must understand this, and might better not spend there money on gems but on expansions and if they want to support Anet some extra there are the collector editions. Just like I do, if there would be expansions. Only way Anet will listen I am afraid.

eisberg.2379:

Devata.6589:

captaincrash.6528:

I thought it was pretty universally accepted that cash shops are fine if they’re purely cosmetic and not pay 2 win, now bam, 3 hair styles per character is outrageous and ANet must be talking out of their kitten .

You can buy the makeover thing for like 12 gold or something, it’s not even expensive, you don’t have to pay REAL money to get it, and even if you did it equals to like $3 or something, oh the horror!

Would you rather hair styles behind a pay wall or new utility skills behind a pay wall?

I thought it was pretty universally accepted that cash shops are fine if they’re purely cosmetic
Then you thought wrong.

“Would you rather hair styles behind a pay wall or new utility skills behind a pay wall?”
If that pay wall would be a big expansion where this was part of.. Yes!

I would rather have hair styles behind a pay wall, and have new content to look forward to every 2 weeks that I do not have to pay for. Doing this living story stuff is far superior than having an expansion.

I don’t agree with you on that last ones. Besides it’s not only the living story and if the hair style in this case would be part of the expansion it’s also behind a pay wall.

knives.6345:

Devata.6589:

Jon.1376:

Mank.2183:

They need money to keep giving you free content, how self entitled can you get.

Came to the post mad, but then I realized how right you are. I bought a total makeover for 15gold that I earned in an hour or two and now have the sylvarri ponytail/dreads hairstyle.

Play the game and earn the content that someone put time into. Anet did nothing wrong with this action. How self entitled can you get?

Or they could make money with expansions.

Because expansions are being released every day…

No every year / year and a half in that case.

tagos.8946:

Devata.6589:

tagos.8946:

Necrochild.1497:

Cosmetic-only content that you have the option of spending in-game currency to acquire causes outrage.

I swear you guys are sheltered from every other MMO on the market, because you obviously aren’t aware of how good you actually have it.

Quoted for Truth. You want to see what sheer naked greed looks like try a Perfect World or Turbine game. The latter are famous for monetising game play by either completely turning them into store-only purchases or making the in-game grind completely outrageous.

Sure – the gem price for the new styles may be a little high if you can’t convert gold to gems. So I simply chose not to buy. I’ll spend my gems on more practical stuff when i need to.

The game needs to make money and as stores go this one isn’t bad at all.

So if some another game does it worse then it’s oke. That lets me think about politics where some politics always say people should not complain because compared to Africa we really have it pretty good. Personally I want to see how it can be even better but heey, everybody may has it’s own view on things.

Now I do wonder.. if you have kids and they would come home with bad grades if that would be fine if multiple classmates have even lower grades?

Wow. Great analogy.

But yes – I think the GW Store is absolutely fine. I am not forced to buy anything to circumvent restrictions added into the game to force me into the store to buy it like Turbine do.

I don’t have to pay over a $100 to get an essential weapon for PvP like in Neverwinter.

All I have to do is decide whether or not to buy some cosmetics or bank service or some other pure convenience item. So yea – comparing a perfectly fine Store to Stores run by crooked companies is working out real fine for me. There’s nothing much wrong with this Store.

If you want cosmetics pay for them in gems or earn the gold. If a company can continue to support and develop this great game by the voluntary contributions of cosmetic buyers then I’m totally in favour.

Once again. I am not agains a cash-shop itself I am agains the effects from a focus on the gem-store compaired to a focus on expansions for income. Thats something else.

Crystin Cox is the responsible individual at ArenaNet, OP. She’s their monetisation manager or something like that. It’s basically her job to selectively slice up new features and make them only accessible to paying customers.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Meleagar/112012/24237_NCSoft-Sold-Arenanet-and-GW2-Out-For-Nexon-Investment

eisberg.2379:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Jamais vu.5284:

They could add fluffy kittens as free permanent minipets and someone would still find a reason to complain about.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mini_White_Kitten

luckily, I don’t think anyone did complain

Actually if I remember right they did, because of the price and it being temporary -.-

You see this.. It’s expansive and temporary because of their focus. So the gme-store and some items in it is not the problem. The focus is!

Invisty.6435:

Crystin Cox is the responsible individual at ArenaNet, OP. She’s their monetisation manager or something like that. It’s basically her job to selectively slice up new features and make them only accessible to paying customers.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Meleagar/112012/24237_NCSoft-Sold-Arenanet-and-GW2-Out-For-Nexon-Investment

The article you link does not show how much this is her responsibility. It has more to do with the whole financial viewpoint but if you are correct then she could do a better job by telling Anet to focus on expansions. But I really don’t believe there is one person responsible for this.

New hair styles in the gem store is a perfect example of what people wanted out of the gem store – stuff that is purely cosmetic and doesn’t matter.

However, the hair shouldn’t be a part of the kit. What makes it slightly worse is that when the kit was first introduced, although they were unsure how it’d actually work (because it wasn’t final), they said that new kits may be released in the future and only those kits will have the new styles. For example, imagine there being 2013, 2014, 2015 etc, style kits, and if you want these hairs, you’ll need the 2013 kit specifically. That would also mean that any old kits won’t get you the new styles and all old styles would be eventually lost.

What they should be selling is “series 1 hair styles” that unlocks the hair styles for you account and comes with a free hair style makeover kit. On the character creation screen, these hair styles would be selectable but locked until purchased to let people know they’re there. A month from now, no new player is going to know about these hairstyles.

Healix.5819:

New hair styles in the gem store is a perfect example of what people wanted out of the gem store – stuff that is purely cosmetic and doesn’t matter.

However, the hair shouldn’t be a part of the kit. What makes it slightly worse is that when the kit was first introduced, although they were unsure how it’d actually work (because it wasn’t final), they said that new kits may be released in the future and only those kits will have the new styles. For example, imagine there being 2013, 2014, 2015 etc, style kits, and if you want these hairs, you’ll need the 2013 kit specifically. That would also mean that any old kits won’t get you the new styles and all old styles would be eventually lost.

What they should be selling is “series 1 hair styles” that unlocks the hair styles for you account and comes with a free hair style makeover kit. On the character creation screen, these hair styles would be selectable but locked until purchased to let people know they’re there. A month from now, no new player is going to know about these hairstyles.

“New hair styles in the gem store is a perfect example of what people wanted out of the gem store – stuff that is purely cosmetic and doesn’t matter.”

Some people maybe. Clearly not all people as you can see in this thread.

They just need to put a barber in the game and I pay for that barber and the hairstyles with an expansion.

Devata.6589:

Invisty.6435:

Crystin Cox is the responsible individual at ArenaNet, OP. She’s their monetisation manager or something like that. It’s basically her job to selectively slice up new features and make them only accessible to paying customers.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Meleagar/112012/24237_NCSoft-Sold-Arenanet-and-GW2-Out-For-Nexon-Investment

Then we know who imo is incompetent at her job. If it’s correct that you say.

Maybe or maybe not. Guild Wars 2 after the initial box sales, has been making more money per month then Guild Wars 1 ever did per month. If it stays like that, then that would mean she would be competent in her job.