Guild Wars 2

Ashen.2907:

Some of the PVE only skills tied to titles did provide a significant amount of power. They were easy mode approaches to powerful builds as top end builds without PVE only skills were capable of levels of performance at least comparable to PVE only builds.

You and I remember it quite differently. Lets agree to disagree, and let all these good folks get back to arguing about GW2, shall we?

Gobhoblin.7582:

Ashen.2907:

Some of the PVE only skills tied to titles did provide a significant amount of power. They were easy mode approaches to powerful builds as top end builds without PVE only skills were capable of levels of performance at least comparable to PVE only builds.

You and I remember it quite differently. Lets agree to disagree, and let all these good folks get back to arguing about GW2, shall we?

I did give specific examples. Whatever your memory was of that, those skills existed and if you entered the meta game in PvE, you were expected to have them..and by many have them maxed out.

Vayne.8563:

I did give specific examples. Whatever your memory was of that, those skills existed and if you entered the meta game in PvE, you were expected to have them..and by many have them maxed out.

You and I remember it quite differently. Lets agree to disagree, and let all these good folks get back to arguing about GW2, shall we?

welcome to 10 months earlier I guess? This has been thoroughly discussed a long time ago. No reason to start it new, those items are in game and will stay/increase, no reason to start yet another thread today. How is this new to anyone – a complete set of ascended items was announced at the end of last year. And yes, we all saw those dev quotes and shook our head in disbelief. But that is last year´s news.

Vayne.8563:

Gobhoblin.7582:

Vayne.8563:

The funny bit is, you did have to grind to get the most power out of your skills in Guild Wars 1. They’ve changed it more recently after Guild Wars 2 was released, presumably because most people no longer play Guild Wars 1 to play Guild Wars 1. They play it to get cool stuff for Guild Wars 2.

But yeah, there was a ton of grind. People forget.

Ok – see the winky face on my post? On my planet, that usually means someone is joking. Calm down.

On the subject of grinding in GW1, maybe I am mis-remembering, but wasn’t all the grind cosmetic? Sure, they introduced the EotN titles that gave you a damage boost against certain beasties – but if I remember rightly they changed that after a massive outcry from the community?

Again, I’m probably looking back with rose-tinted specs, but I don’t remember a GW1 grind that wasn’t cosmetic or title related…no performance benefit, just pure kitten.

…which is why I loved the game. I have no strong ragey feelings about the grind for gear in GW2, other than a profound sense of disappointment.

Guild Wars 1 had skill grind. Every time a new product game out, there were new skills to acquire. Take the skill Save Yourselves. A perfectly innocuous skill, until you realized that your paragon imbagon build was completely dependent upon it and that you couldn’t get into a DOA group if it wasn’t high enough.

That was a Luxon/Kurzick skill which had 12 ranks. Look up FFF in the Guild Wars 1 wiki for instructions on how to fast faction farm. People farmed those points forever, to get skills like that up.

The necromancer skill necrosis from NF was also like that. You want that skill more powerful you have to grind Sunspear points. Technobabble, pain inverter, the sin skill which the permasin build depended on, the norn skill ursan, which people wanted you to have rank 8 or higher in their norn title track.

It’s the same thing here. Do you NEED ascended gear to play this game? No. You don’t. And those skills were so kitten powerful they changed the balance of PvE completely. I mean a lot. Far more than ascended gear will affect this game.

But that was okay because that was skill grind, not gear grind.

That’s the difference. Skill grind > Gear grind. Skill grind is something meaningful, unlocking new skills the more you play and consequently allowing you to play in a more diverse and exciting way, developing your own new strategies etc.

Gear grind on the contrary means that you get a new set with your current stats + x, not really making any changes, except that you do more damage according to the stats, which is not even necessary because they can just make the monsters a little bit easier so you don’t need the + x gear (in this case ascended).

Ballistic.4531:

Namu.5712:

Ballistic.4531:

Namu.5712:

cesmode.4257:

Read the below quote from Mike O’Brien, President of Arenanet.

Two things to understand before reading:
-Ascended gear is mower powerful than exotic. To debate otherwise is silly.
-You do not need ascended gear for most content — This is not the point!

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet

Discuss and tell me how time-gating a new tier of weapons and gear that has better stats obeys what Mike O’Brien said in his quote.

Logging in for 5 minutes a day to craft your one time daily materials for 2 weeks is not what i consider
“If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. "

Thats a total of like 70 minutes worth of your time spread over 2 weeks. How does that fall into the category of playing thousands of hours and not realistic to get…..

Just pointing out the obvious.

Because I first need to level up my weapon smith (and w/e other crafting profession I need to level up) to 400, and with current prices, it’s all but cheap. Second, I need to grind to get the mats and craft the exotics at 400 to get to 450. Then I need to grind to get the mats to make t7 mats to go to 500. Then, I need to grind for new mats so I can finally, login once a day for 5 minutes and do what you say.
Yeah, it’s not much time to press craft once or twice per day, but you conveniently forgot all the grind that comes before you are able to press that one button.
Just pointing out the obvious.

Oh sorry add 8 hours to get your crafting up…. -.-
You dont have to grind new mats just play regularly like you normally do. Should have enough mats just from that.

Stop over exaggerating things lol

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/Ascended-Crafting-Material-List

I don’t know how you play, but my gameplay doesn’t drop 450 Mithril Ingots in 2 weeks. Actually, I don’t think I would be able to get that many ingots if I collected all of my mithril ore from day one. And that is just one tiny part of it all. Might want to check the full list, before telling me I’m exaggerating.

You are the one attaching the a time frame in which you should have your new weapon, not me. You are creating a sense of urgency that is not even needed.

Do you not hit mithril nodes when out playing during your game time? I do… I have over 1k ore just because im stingy and dont sell them on the TP. Infact i have most all the mats I need already for 2 weapons. I didn’t even really play this summer I was busy mountain biking and enjoying my summer. Ill probably pick up again this winter between snowmobiling and snowboarding and still have my weapons before the next ascended piece comes out.

It is the players that create a sense of urgency and grind in the game. Not really the game.

If you follow the natural progression of the game and play the content they release you would know its not really a gear grind. You do daily’s to for a number of reason’s achieve points, karma, money, and laurels. Those all directly contribute to getting ascended accessories. The FOTM when released was meant to be played as content, those that played it got 2 rings pretty effortlessly by level 10. The back piece came in two flavors, you could continue enjoying FOTM getting to higher levels and challenging your self and using your relics for it or you could craft it. And the crafting components were largely things that most people already had alot of just from playing.

Its the same thing with the new weapons. There are 2 ways of getting it, playing the new revamped dragon encounter and getting a unique one from that + other ascended mats. And playing as you normally do, doing events in orr and things of that nature.

Stop attaching grind to everything, just because you dont want to take your time and play the game doesn’t mean its a grind when something new comes out. Like I said go with the flow and stop exaggerating.

And to everyone, even if you feel you are target audience – you are not. Target audience for GW2 is eastern market.

I think the downfall of players these days is that they want everything right now, and if there’s a time frame attached to it (which does not make something inaccessible), they confuse it for grind.
Patience =/= grind.

Um Abbas.5693:

I think the downfall of players these days is that they want everything right now, and if there’s a time frame attached to it (which does not make something inaccessible), they confuse it for grind.
Patience =/= grind.

This is exactly it.

Between each release of ascended they have given everyone ample time to get it or not get it if they wanted to.

And its all been attached to content that players do anyways. Daily’s, FotM, events…. guild events, etc etc. If you play like normal you will naturally have the stuff you need for it, you DONT have to sit there and grind for 2 weeks straight lol.

Um Abbas.5693:

I think the downfall of players these days is that they want everything right now, and if there’s a time frame attached to it (which does not make something inaccessible), they confuse it for grind.
Patience =/= grind.

While that is true for some, I think in this situation, it’s not really about wanting it now, but wanting it more accessible. Right now, Ascended gear is time-gated and content-gated. There is no other way to obtain it except having to deal with time and content gates.

In other games, there is multiple ways to get gear. Epics for example (sure, we’ll use WoW epics. Nothing can go wrong with this analogy…) can be obtained via crafting, dungeons, raids, PvP, and just random drops. You aren’t forced into one type of content and stuck behind artificial time gates just to gear up. You can get the gear on your own time when it is convenient for you.

With GW2, you only have one option for Ascended gear. You have to deal with it being locked behind specific content and you have to deal with the time gates. You can’t play how you want and get the gear at your own pace. You have to do specific things that you might not like, just to obtain that gear and you have to wait to get that gear because it is time gated.

That is the issue in my opinion. It’s not about wanting it right now, it’s about wanting it to be more accessible through different ways of game play. Not gated behind specific content or time gated to force you to wait. Anet always said, you should be able to play how you want to play. This goes against that.

“This is a hit for alts.”
Mmmm, I read that a lot. But if those people are honest to themselves, how many use all their alts in high ++ fractal levels? Because let’s be honest, that’s where ascended is going to make a difference. It’ll be slightly noticeable in WvW, but that format is unbalanced by default.

So? Of those 8+ alts, how many actually need the ascended stuff?

Personally I admit that I only play my guardian and warrior in end game content, and that doesn’t even include fractals, so these new weapons are a nice new goal to work towards, at a steady pace. I doubt I’ll be kicked out of an AC run for not having ascended gear.

Namu.5712:

Um Abbas.5693:

I think the downfall of players these days is that they want everything right now, and if there’s a time frame attached to it (which does not make something inaccessible), they confuse it for grind.
Patience =/= grind.

This is exactly it.

Between each release of ascended they have given everyone ample time to get it or not get it if they wanted to.

And its all been attached to content that players do anyways. Daily’s, FotM, events…. guild events, etc etc. If you play like normal you will naturally have the stuff you need for it, you DONT have to sit there and grind for 2 weeks straight lol.

5 characters each 2-3 builds.

They gave me enough time to get WHAT?

It also should come WITHOUT ANY GRIND (at least thats what ANet says).

Namu.5712:

Um Abbas.5693:

I think the downfall of players these days is that they want everything right now, and if there’s a time frame attached to it (which does not make something inaccessible), they confuse it for grind.
Patience =/= grind.

This is exactly it.

Between each release of ascended they have given everyone ample time to get it or not get it if they wanted to.

And its all been attached to content that players do anyways. Daily’s, FotM, events…. guild events, etc etc. If you play like normal you will naturally have the stuff you need for it, you DONT have to sit there and grind for 2 weeks straight lol.

I got very litle by “naturally playing the game”.

Players: Back to the drawing board i guess.

ANet: Nah, well implement MOAR of already badly implemented crap lol

Sirendor.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Gobhoblin.7582:

Vayne.8563:

The funny bit is, you did have to grind to get the most power out of your skills in Guild Wars 1. They’ve changed it more recently after Guild Wars 2 was released, presumably because most people no longer play Guild Wars 1 to play Guild Wars 1. They play it to get cool stuff for Guild Wars 2.

But yeah, there was a ton of grind. People forget.

Ok – see the winky face on my post? On my planet, that usually means someone is joking. Calm down.

On the subject of grinding in GW1, maybe I am mis-remembering, but wasn’t all the grind cosmetic? Sure, they introduced the EotN titles that gave you a damage boost against certain beasties – but if I remember rightly they changed that after a massive outcry from the community?

Again, I’m probably looking back with rose-tinted specs, but I don’t remember a GW1 grind that wasn’t cosmetic or title related…no performance benefit, just pure kitten.

…which is why I loved the game. I have no strong ragey feelings about the grind for gear in GW2, other than a profound sense of disappointment.

Guild Wars 1 had skill grind. Every time a new product game out, there were new skills to acquire. Take the skill Save Yourselves. A perfectly innocuous skill, until you realized that your paragon imbagon build was completely dependent upon it and that you couldn’t get into a DOA group if it wasn’t high enough.

That was a Luxon/Kurzick skill which had 12 ranks. Look up FFF in the Guild Wars 1 wiki for instructions on how to fast faction farm. People farmed those points forever, to get skills like that up.

The necromancer skill necrosis from NF was also like that. You want that skill more powerful you have to grind Sunspear points. Technobabble, pain inverter, the sin skill which the permasin build depended on, the norn skill ursan, which people wanted you to have rank 8 or higher in their norn title track.

It’s the same thing here. Do you NEED ascended gear to play this game? No. You don’t. And those skills were so kitten powerful they changed the balance of PvE completely. I mean a lot. Far more than ascended gear will affect this game.

But that was okay because that was skill grind, not gear grind.

That’s the difference. Skill grind > Gear grind. Skill grind is something meaningful, unlocking new skills the more you play and consequently allowing you to play in a more diverse and exciting way, developing your own new strategies etc.

Gear grind on the contrary means that you get a new set with your current stats + x, not really making any changes, except that you do more damage according to the stats, which is not even necessary because they can just make the monsters a little bit easier so you don’t need the + x gear (in this case ascended).

Except that the skill grind made more of an effect on power creep than this gear grind does, and power creep is one of the big bug bears of gear grind systems. The PvE content under skill grind got laughably easy, even with 3 heroes and 4 henchmen.

Meaningful is a funny word. A new skill that’s so powerful you have to keep it on your skill bar or be at a disadvantage isn’t better than a few stats that don’t add up to much. To me, ascended gear is far more easily ignored.

Rozbuska.5263:

facepalm You dont get your top weapon faster than in 2 week… Buuuu huuuuu…

You need to read the complaints better, it’s not just “the top weapon”. Heck, it’s not the top weapon at all, those are the Legendaries (that stat switch . . . whew).

It’s the implication it could take 2 weeks per weapon for some classes which use multiple sets of weapons to be versatile. Ranger, Warrior . . . two off the top of my head and I know other classes are like that too. (Those two have a nice big pile of options as far as weapons go, too, so it might hurt them a lot.)

The complaint isn’t “two whole excruciating weeks until I get my Ascended bow” . . . it’s “two weeks for the bow, two weeks for my sword, two weeks for my greatsword…”

“Discuss and tell me how time-gating a new tier of weapons and gear that has better stats obeys what Mike O’Brien said in his quote.”

Simple answer. It doesn’t. It didn’t in November 2012 and it doesn’t in 2013. The fact that the majority can’t seem to see that changes nothing.

By making the game all about the economy that doesn’t yield proper returns they’ve basically turned this game into a grind fest. Everyone is so concerned about getting enough gold to do anything in the game that whole events have been turned upside down into farm fests.

They propose changing the drops to events completed but that won’t solve the problem because we’re still grinding to complete yet another tier of gear crafting. They claim this will be it, but they also claimed it wouldn’t be a grind, and here we are.

My question is why should I believe anything they say?

Seriously? I mean SERIOUSLY? I just don’t understand all the QQing that happens in MMOs these days! What the hell has happened to MMO society that you all have this sense of self entitlement? Why must it be I want this NOW or I am going to pitch a cry baby tantrum? God FORBID you have to WORK for something?

Do you walk into a work environment with ZERO experience DEMANDING that you be given a management position IMMEDIATELY?

NO!

So why in the world would you expect the best things in a game to be any different? SERIOUSLY?!

Maybe it’s a generational thing… I started with UO the EQ and many more after that… and before you all start talking about oh here he goes with his uphill both ways in the snow argument… no offense but… games used to be MUUUUUUCH harder… to the point that getting the best things would put most of the GW2 community into the fetal position whimpering for their momma…

I EXPECT to have to work to get what I want and by god I do just that… grow up and get over it… put on your big boy pants and spend the, OH NO, two weeks it takes to craft your ascended weapons… Jesus even when I say that it makes me laugh…

Vayne.8563:

Gobhoblin.7582:

Ashen.2907:

Some of the PVE only skills tied to titles did provide a significant amount of power. They were easy mode approaches to powerful builds as top end builds without PVE only skills were capable of levels of performance at least comparable to PVE only builds.

You and I remember it quite differently. Lets agree to disagree, and let all these good folks get back to arguing about GW2, shall we?

I did give specific examples. Whatever your memory was of that, those skills existed and if you entered the meta game in PvE, you were expected to have them..and by many have them maxed out.

Anyone who played GW1 and has done things like DoA knows that Lightbringer levels were a requirement… but what I think he’s trying to tell you is that whatever happened in GW1 is irrelevant for GW2 and the manifesto and as a consequence for this discussion.

Now, I haven’t followed all posts here but is that relevant for this discussion?

GW1 did have grind but it had stuff I really wanted. GW2 has grind but for me it has no purpose so I don’t do it. I don’t mind grind always but the statement that they don’t want to make grindy games is a nice statement but I don’t think they managed to do it.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Seriously? I mean SERIOUSLY? I just don’t understand all the QQing that happens in MMOs these days! What the hell has happened to MMO society that you all have this sense of self entitlement? Why must it be I want this NOW or I am going to pitch a cry baby tantrum? God FORBID you have to WORK for something?

Do you walk into a work environment with ZERO experience DEMANDING that you be given a management position IMMEDIATELY?

NO!

So why in the world would you expect the best things in a game to be any different? SERIOUSLY?!

Maybe it’s a generational thing… I started with UO the EQ and many more after that… and before you all start talking about oh here he goes with his uphill both ways in the snow argument… no offense but… games used to be MUUUUUUCH harder… to the point that getting the best things would put most of the GW2 community into the fetal position whimpering for their momma…

I EXPECT to have to work to get what I want and by god I do just that… grow up and get over it… put on your big boy pants and spend the, OH NO, two weeks it takes to craft your ascended weapons… Jesus even when I say that it makes me laugh…

First off, I have a place were I have to work. It’s called my JOB. Video games are the thing I do to make me not have to think about that.

Second, doesn’t anyone do their homework anymore? Don’t people know the type of game their buying before they buy it? The way I see it, you happened upon this game one of 3 ways:

You either 1) bought this game after November, either because you found out it had added post-level cap gear progression, or didn’t know anything about it prior.

2)Bought this game before November, knowing that the game was touted as not being dependent on a gear treadmill, but decided you could get in and “help change things for the better”

or 3) you bought the game before November, not know how this game had been marketed for the prior 3 years, and raged all over the place when you found out they had made this game for a bunch of lazy kittens who don’t appreciate a hard day’s grind.

I’ve played older MMO’s. They all burned me out when they started to look like a job. There are lots of people who have had the same experience, and many of them looked to GW2 for relief. I don’t play video games to earn thing. I play video games because they are fun. Having a level playing field (ie having a stable, easy to reach power plateau) is MY idea of fun. Because than I can focus on becoming a better player, and not merely having a better character.

cesmode.4257:

But Arenanets other reason they gave us was “to bridge the time gap between exotic and legendary”.

That reason fails on the implementation. Well not that much. Ascended rings were done right. Ascended amulets too. Ascended earrings were done right but as a slap in the face of players that don’t want to do zerg guild content. You can buy them as another source but it WILL set you back a lot on your way to your legendary.

And now, ascended weapons come out and it costs like 40-50g in raw materials, not to mention karma for each weapon. Let’s not even mention how much it’ll cost to level crafting to 500.

Making those ascended weapons will completely set me back months in my slow and painful quest into a legendary :/

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Seriously? I mean SERIOUSLY? I just don’t understand all the QQing that happens in MMOs these days! What the hell has happened to MMO society that you all have this sense of self entitlement? Why must it be I want this NOW or I am going to pitch a cry baby tantrum? God FORBID you have to WORK for something?

Do you walk into a work environment with ZERO experience DEMANDING that you be given a management position IMMEDIATELY?

NO!

So why in the world would you expect the best things in a game to be any different? SERIOUSLY?!

Maybe it’s a generational thing… I started with UO the EQ and many more after that… and before you all start talking about oh here he goes with his uphill both ways in the snow argument… no offense but… games used to be MUUUUUUCH harder… to the point that getting the best things would put most of the GW2 community into the fetal position whimpering for their momma…

I EXPECT to have to work to get what I want and by god I do just that… grow up and get over it… put on your big boy pants and spend the, OH NO, two weeks it takes to craft your ascended weapons… Jesus even when I say that it makes me laugh…

Dude, I don’t want them now, I don’t want them at all. There’s a difference. If they must be in game, then Anet should man up and do it the way they’ve always done it – make them trivially easy to get. They’re not, because the original GW1 people all left, and got replaced by folks only interesting in your wallet.

Best-in-slot is supposed to be easy to get, because it’s supposed to be about skill, not gear. Who understands the game better, not who gets the extra 20% damage because they had more time. This has changed – now it’s “he who grinds the most will win”. If you can’t see why this is bad, I can’t do anything to help you.

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Gobhoblin.7582:

Ashen.2907:

Some of the PVE only skills tied to titles did provide a significant amount of power. They were easy mode approaches to powerful builds as top end builds without PVE only skills were capable of levels of performance at least comparable to PVE only builds.

You and I remember it quite differently. Lets agree to disagree, and let all these good folks get back to arguing about GW2, shall we?

I did give specific examples. Whatever your memory was of that, those skills existed and if you entered the meta game in PvE, you were expected to have them..and by many have them maxed out.

Anyone who played GW1 and has done things like DoA knows that Lightbringer levels were a requirement… but what I think he’s trying to tell you is that whatever happened in GW1 is irrelevant for GW2 and the manifesto and as a consequence for this discussion.

Now, I haven’t followed all posts here but is that relevant for this discussion?

GW1 did have grind but it had stuff I really wanted. GW2 has grind but for me it has no purpose so I don’t do it. I don’t mind grind always but the statement that they don’t want to make grindy games is a nice statement but I don’t think they managed to do it.

It’s not worth trying to parse – Vayne will always say whatever makes Anet look best at the moment, even if it’s a direct contradiction of what he said yesterday. Sometimes he’s right, more often he’s wrong – he’s always argumentative about it.

EDIT: also, please note that there was no obligatory grind in GW1 until the end of it’s cycle – EOTN. Factions had it, in theory, but only if you wanted to top out a skill. Nightfall had it, again in theory, but only for topping out a pve only skill.

Grinding should be for cosmetics, not power. Having “he who plays the most will always win, because gear trumps skill” is counter to what the game was advertised as.

Klawlyt.6507:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Seriously? I mean SERIOUSLY? I just don’t understand all the QQing that happens in MMOs these days! What the hell has happened to MMO society that you all have this sense of self entitlement? Why must it be I want this NOW or I am going to pitch a cry baby tantrum? God FORBID you have to WORK for something?

Do you walk into a work environment with ZERO experience DEMANDING that you be given a management position IMMEDIATELY?

NO!

So why in the world would you expect the best things in a game to be any different? SERIOUSLY?!

Maybe it’s a generational thing… I started with UO the EQ and many more after that… and before you all start talking about oh here he goes with his uphill both ways in the snow argument… no offense but… games used to be MUUUUUUCH harder… to the point that getting the best things would put most of the GW2 community into the fetal position whimpering for their momma…

I EXPECT to have to work to get what I want and by god I do just that… grow up and get over it… put on your big boy pants and spend the, OH NO, two weeks it takes to craft your ascended weapons… Jesus even when I say that it makes me laugh…

First off, I have a place were I have to work. It’s called my JOB. Video games are the thing I do to make me not have to think about that.

Second, doesn’t anyone do their homework anymore? Don’t people know the type of game their buying before they buy it? The way I see it, you happened upon this game one of 3 ways:

You either 1) bought this game after November, either because you found out it had added post-level cap gear progression, or didn’t know anything about it prior.

2)Bought this game before November, knowing that the game was touted as not being dependent on a gear treadmill, but decided you could get in and “help change things for the better”

or 3) you bought the game before November, not know how this game had been marketed for the prior 3 years, and raged all over the place when you found out they had made this game for a bunch of lazy kittens who don’t appreciate a hard day’s grind.

I’ve played older MMO’s. They all burned me out when they started to look like a job. There are lots of people who have had the same experience, and many of them looked to GW2 for relief. I don’t play video games to earn thing. I play video games because they are fun. Having a level playing field (ie having a stable, easy to reach power plateau) is MY idea of fun. Because than I can focus on becoming a better player, and not merely having a better character.

Two weeks is not a grind… at all.. one tier does not make a treadmill… at all.. the majority of these mats are all from refining mats already available… which most people should have donkey loads of thanks to Crown Pavilion and Clockwork Chaos…

Just because somewhere some dev said no dear treadmill does not mean that they would NEVER add any better gear… it just means they won’t do it every 3-6 months like cough WoW cough… Have they? No. So I would suggest to everyone who has been QQing about two weeks to get an ascended weapon to grab a tissue, wipe their eyes, and man/woman up wor two weeks out of their gaming lives… Stop expecting the best things in life for free for god’s sake…

stale.9785:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Seriously? I mean SERIOUSLY? I just don’t understand all the QQing that happens in MMOs these days! What the hell has happened to MMO society that you all have this sense of self entitlement? Why must it be I want this NOW or I am going to pitch a cry baby tantrum? God FORBID you have to WORK for something?

Do you walk into a work environment with ZERO experience DEMANDING that you be given a management position IMMEDIATELY?

NO!

So why in the world would you expect the best things in a game to be any different? SERIOUSLY?!

Maybe it’s a generational thing… I started with UO the EQ and many more after that… and before you all start talking about oh here he goes with his uphill both ways in the snow argument… no offense but… games used to be MUUUUUUCH harder… to the point that getting the best things would put most of the GW2 community into the fetal position whimpering for their momma…

I EXPECT to have to work to get what I want and by god I do just that… grow up and get over it… put on your big boy pants and spend the, OH NO, two weeks it takes to craft your ascended weapons… Jesus even when I say that it makes me laugh…

Dude, I don’t want them now, I don’t want them at all. There’s a difference. If they must be in game, then Anet should man up and do it the way they’ve always done it – make them trivially easy to get. They’re not, because the original GW1 people all left, and got replaced by folks only interesting in your wallet.

Best-in-slot is supposed to be easy to get, because it’s supposed to be about skill, not gear. Who understands the game better, not who gets the extra 20% damage because they had more time. This has changed – now it’s “he who grinds the most will win”. If you can’t see why this is bad, I can’t do anything to help you.

Again if you consider two weeks a grind, I question why you ever got into MMOs in the first place…

I find it almost comical how people complain on these forums that content is too easy and how there is nothing to do post level 80 and then when something is introduced that is REMOTELY challenging or requires EFFORT to obtain people throw tantrums…

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Seriously? I mean SERIOUSLY? I just don’t understand all the QQing that happens in MMOs these days! What the hell has happened to MMO society that you all have this sense of self entitlement? Why must it be I want this NOW or I am going to pitch a cry baby tantrum? God FORBID you have to WORK for something?

Do you walk into a work environment with ZERO experience DEMANDING that you be given a management position IMMEDIATELY?

NO!

So why in the world would you expect the best things in a game to be any different? SERIOUSLY?!

Maybe it’s a generational thing… I started with UO the EQ and many more after that… and before you all start talking about oh here he goes with his uphill both ways in the snow argument… no offense but… games used to be MUUUUUUCH harder… to the point that getting the best things would put most of the GW2 community into the fetal position whimpering for their momma…

I EXPECT to have to work to get what I want and by god I do just that… grow up and get over it… put on your big boy pants and spend the, OH NO, two weeks it takes to craft your ascended weapons… Jesus even when I say that it makes me laugh…

oK a couple of things.
people who are against Ascended gear mostly make reasonable posts, pointing out the flaws in the basic concept, not posts like this. I don’t know what to call this

If you don’t understand the issues involved, say so, read the posts that explain it.

The idea that you have to work in a game is stupid, it is a game, not a job. Most of us have played games like that, this is why be bought GW2.
There is also a big difference between working for goals of your choosing and having an arbitrary goal shoved down your throat by the game.

Nobody is being self- entitled, no-one is claiming they should get it for free- we are questioning the reason why we should get it at all.

As for your generational comment- I am 42.
I have enough stuff going on in my rl not to have the time or the energy to put up with nonsense from my hobbies that I use to relax.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Klawlyt.6507:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Seriously? I mean SERIOUSLY? I just don’t understand all the QQing that happens in MMOs these days! What the hell has happened to MMO society that you all have this sense of self entitlement? Why must it be I want this NOW or I am going to pitch a cry baby tantrum? God FORBID you have to WORK for something?

Do you walk into a work environment with ZERO experience DEMANDING that you be given a management position IMMEDIATELY?

NO!

So why in the world would you expect the best things in a game to be any different? SERIOUSLY?!

Maybe it’s a generational thing… I started with UO the EQ and many more after that… and before you all start talking about oh here he goes with his uphill both ways in the snow argument… no offense but… games used to be MUUUUUUCH harder… to the point that getting the best things would put most of the GW2 community into the fetal position whimpering for their momma…

I EXPECT to have to work to get what I want and by god I do just that… grow up and get over it… put on your big boy pants and spend the, OH NO, two weeks it takes to craft your ascended weapons… Jesus even when I say that it makes me laugh…

First off, I have a place were I have to work. It’s called my JOB. Video games are the thing I do to make me not have to think about that.

Second, doesn’t anyone do their homework anymore? Don’t people know the type of game their buying before they buy it? The way I see it, you happened upon this game one of 3 ways:

You either 1) bought this game after November, either because you found out it had added post-level cap gear progression, or didn’t know anything about it prior.

2)Bought this game before November, knowing that the game was touted as not being dependent on a gear treadmill, but decided you could get in and “help change things for the better”

or 3) you bought the game before November, not know how this game had been marketed for the prior 3 years, and raged all over the place when you found out they had made this game for a bunch of lazy kittens who don’t appreciate a hard day’s grind.

I’ve played older MMO’s. They all burned me out when they started to look like a job. There are lots of people who have had the same experience, and many of them looked to GW2 for relief. I don’t play video games to earn thing. I play video games because they are fun. Having a level playing field (ie having a stable, easy to reach power plateau) is MY idea of fun. Because than I can focus on becoming a better player, and not merely having a better character.

Two weeks is not a grind… at all.. one tier does not make a treadmill… at all.. the majority of these mats are all from refining mats already available… which most people should have donkey loads of thanks to Crown Pavilion and Clockwork Chaos…

Just because somewhere some dev said no dear treadmill does not mean that they would NEVER add any better gear… it just means they won’t do it every 3-6 months like cough WoW cough… Have they? No. So I would suggest to everyone who has been QQing about two weeks to get an ascended weapon to grab a tissue, wipe their eyes, and man/woman up wor two weeks out of their gaming lives… Stop expecting the best things in life for free for god’s sake…

You’re missing the point. PvE AT ALL is a grind for me. I’m still here because of WvW. Where you don’t make jack or kitten. I’m not here to craft, I’m not here to watch numbers go up and make me feel like I’m accomplishing something. I’m here to play in a competitive environment. GW2, like it’s predecessor was built around a PvP centered combat system. I expected the game to keep a relatively balanced playing field. As the fellow above me said, I don’t want ascended gear now, I want it GONE.

I’m still curious under which of the three above scenarios you started playing the game. Care to share?

cesmode.4257:

Read the below quote from Mike O’Brien, President of Arenanet.

Two things to understand before reading:
-Ascended gear is mower powerful than exotic. To debate otherwise is silly.
-You do not need ascended gear for most content — This is not the point!

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet

Discuss and tell me how time-gating a new tier of weapons and gear that has better stats obeys what Mike O’Brien said in his quote.

It shows (again) you can’t count on anything they say. Colin bursts out illusions of what could be as well. The attitude of most of the leading devs in the forum or in interviews is highly questionable, which is very sad. In every business are people who like to be important and people who like to do their job.

I went for this game for all they said up to the release and I really liked what I found in Tyria. But now I am on the verge of leaving because of all they’ve said and done after it. I started playing Guild Wars 2 and it has been fun. Now it is Grind War2 and the fun fades fast.

stale.9785:

EDIT: also, please note that there was no obligatory grind in GW1 until the end of it’s cycle – EOTN. Factions had it, in theory, but only if you wanted to top out a skill. Nightfall had it, again in theory, but only for topping out a pve only skill.

Grinding should be for cosmetics, not power. Having “he who plays the most will always win, because gear trumps skill” is counter to what the game was advertised as.

Well I didn’t always like grinding for stuff in GW1 but I really wanted that lightbringer title maxed.

That there’s grind in games is no surprise for me and I am not against all types of grind, but I do need to feel like there’s a point to it and that’s what’s missing in GW2 for me. I level to 80, buy exotic gear and then what? I have the look I want and the legendaries mean nothing to me. So I could grind to have more cash or get more trinkets but why? There’s no point in it to me.

I prefer grind with a goal that means something to me over grind without a goal that means something to me. That to me is the big difference between GW1 and GW2. I cared about stuff in GW1, I don’t really here. Not enough to keep playing in any case.

Morrigan.2809:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Seriously? I mean SERIOUSLY? I just don’t understand all the QQing that happens in MMOs these days! What the hell has happened to MMO society that you all have this sense of self entitlement? Why must it be I want this NOW or I am going to pitch a cry baby tantrum? God FORBID you have to WORK for something?

Do you walk into a work environment with ZERO experience DEMANDING that you be given a management position IMMEDIATELY?

NO!

So why in the world would you expect the best things in a game to be any different? SERIOUSLY?!

Maybe it’s a generational thing… I started with UO the EQ and many more after that… and before you all start talking about oh here he goes with his uphill both ways in the snow argument… no offense but… games used to be MUUUUUUCH harder… to the point that getting the best things would put most of the GW2 community into the fetal position whimpering for their momma…

I EXPECT to have to work to get what I want and by god I do just that… grow up and get over it… put on your big boy pants and spend the, OH NO, two weeks it takes to craft your ascended weapons… Jesus even when I say that it makes me laugh…

oK a couple of things.
people who are against Ascended gear mostly make reasonable posts, pointing out the flaws in the basic concept, not posts like this. I don’t know what to call this

If you don’t understand the issues involved, say so, read the posts that explain it.

The idea that you have to work in a game is stupid, it is a game, not a job. Most of us have played games like that, this is why be bought GW2.
There is also a big difference between working for goals of your choosing and having an arbitrary goal shoved down your throat by the game.

Nobody is being self- entitled, no-one is claiming they should get it for free- we are questioning the reason why we should get it at all.

As for your generational comment- I am 42.
I have enough stuff going on in my rl not to have the time or the energy to put up with nonsense from my hobbies that I use to relax.

Ok so let me put it this way…

Point out ONE aspect of the game (EXCEPT FRACTALS) that you CANNOT complete by only wearing exotic gear…

Ascended weapons and gear are SOLELY for the people who WANT a MILD post 80 grind… ie. the TOP PvPers and, like myself, collectors…

Whether or not you have this gear will NOT make or break your gaming experience… and no offense (and yes I know this is a matter of opinion) but given the fact that ANET loves Greatswords, I don’t have much hopes for the aesthetics of the new weapons… To me they look like crap. The ones I do go for will be transmutation bait…

So there you have it, my challenge to you is tell me a SINGLE aspect OUTSIDE of fractals that you cannot complete by using exotic gear…

Oh wait you can’t… the QQing by everyone is now moot…

Also, for the “it’s only two weeks crowd” let’s assume that, yes, you have the 50-60G of materials you need (per weapon) already. Now you just need 20 of something you can only get one of per day, per account. That’s 20 days.

I take a look at the characters I play regularly, and to get back to where I am right now, having best in slot everywhere, I’m looking at a absolute minimum of 320 days. Assuming I don’t miss a day. To get back to the level I’m at right now. Do you start to see the issue here?

I can knock that down, give up on all my alts, and play one character. That puts me at a mere 120 days, assuming I don’t ever skip one, to – again – get back to where I am right now. This is what a treadmill is. You keep walking to stay where you are – if you stop, you fall off. This is uncool.

Morrigan.2809:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Seriously? I mean SERIOUSLY? I just don’t understand all the QQing that happens in MMOs these days! What the hell has happened to MMO society that you all have this sense of self entitlement? Why must it be I want this NOW or I am going to pitch a cry baby tantrum? God FORBID you have to WORK for something?

Do you walk into a work environment with ZERO experience DEMANDING that you be given a management position IMMEDIATELY?

NO!

So why in the world would you expect the best things in a game to be any different? SERIOUSLY?!

Maybe it’s a generational thing… I started with UO the EQ and many more after that… and before you all start talking about oh here he goes with his uphill both ways in the snow argument… no offense but… games used to be MUUUUUUCH harder… to the point that getting the best things would put most of the GW2 community into the fetal position whimpering for their momma…

I EXPECT to have to work to get what I want and by god I do just that… grow up and get over it… put on your big boy pants and spend the, OH NO, two weeks it takes to craft your ascended weapons… Jesus even when I say that it makes me laugh…

oK a couple of things.
people who are against Ascended gear mostly make reasonable posts, pointing out the flaws in the basic concept, not posts like this. I don’t know what to call this

If you don’t understand the issues involved, say so, read the posts that explain it.

The idea that you have to work in a game is stupid, it is a game, not a job. Most of us have played games like that, this is why be bought GW2.
There is also a big difference between working for goals of your choosing and having an arbitrary goal shoved down your throat by the game.

Nobody is being self- entitled, no-one is claiming they should get it for free- we are questioning the reason why we should get it at all.

As for your generational comment- I am 42.
I have enough stuff going on in my rl not to have the time or the energy to put up with nonsense from my hobbies that I use to relax.

Thats just it, its not a job even with ascended being introduced.

Its not required for dungeons, raiding or anything else. So therefore it is the player that looks at new things and views it as a job.

That is a messed up mentality to begin with.

I mean look at a board game like monopoly. The goal is to aquire more estates, and money then everyone else. You work your way around the board buying up properties and such. Do people view it as a job? No they view it as a game with a freaking goal lol.

Look at FPS games like battlefield or COD. They have progressive jumps in ranks, and weapons and loadouts for your weapons, are they required? No you can still shoot someone in the face and kill them without being a 5 star general with 1k hours under your belt and a golden ak that has a grip and other crap on it. Do you look at obtaining those weapon upgrades and such as a job? NO you play the game you have fun and you get them along the way.

A mmo normally requires players to adventure, gather, produce goods, build up characters to be strong…. traditionally speaking. GW2 accomplishes that. You aren’t being required to really do anything different then play the kitten game lol. How on earth do you view playing a game and gathering resources and stuff to increase your character’s efficiency or power as a job?
Do you view equipping new weapon sets and killing things with them to unlock the next one as a job?
Do you view getting skill points as you leveled for utility skills as a job?
Do you view getting to level 80 as a job?
Do you view crafting to 400 as a job?
Do you view gathering nodes as a job?
Do you view Daily activities and events as a job?
Do you view doing dungeons for exotic’s as a job?
Do you view gathering karma from events for exotics as a job?
Do you view exploring the world maps and completing them as a job?

If you answered yes to any of those you shouldn’t play mmo’s then. If you answered no to those then why the kitten are you complaining about ascended gear! Play the game and the gear will come.

Klawlyt.6507:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Klawlyt.6507:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Seriously? I mean SERIOUSLY? I just don’t understand all the QQing that happens in MMOs these days! What the hell has happened to MMO society that you all have this sense of self entitlement? Why must it be I want this NOW or I am going to pitch a cry baby tantrum? God FORBID you have to WORK for something?

Do you walk into a work environment with ZERO experience DEMANDING that you be given a management position IMMEDIATELY?

NO!

So why in the world would you expect the best things in a game to be any different? SERIOUSLY?!

Maybe it’s a generational thing… I started with UO the EQ and many more after that… and before you all start talking about oh here he goes with his uphill both ways in the snow argument… no offense but… games used to be MUUUUUUCH harder… to the point that getting the best things would put most of the GW2 community into the fetal position whimpering for their momma…

I EXPECT to have to work to get what I want and by god I do just that… grow up and get over it… put on your big boy pants and spend the, OH NO, two weeks it takes to craft your ascended weapons… Jesus even when I say that it makes me laugh…

First off, I have a place were I have to work. It’s called my JOB. Video games are the thing I do to make me not have to think about that.

Second, doesn’t anyone do their homework anymore? Don’t people know the type of game their buying before they buy it? The way I see it, you happened upon this game one of 3 ways:

You either 1) bought this game after November, either because you found out it had added post-level cap gear progression, or didn’t know anything about it prior.

2)Bought this game before November, knowing that the game was touted as not being dependent on a gear treadmill, but decided you could get in and “help change things for the better”

or 3) you bought the game before November, not know how this game had been marketed for the prior 3 years, and raged all over the place when you found out they had made this game for a bunch of lazy kittens who don’t appreciate a hard day’s grind.

I’ve played older MMO’s. They all burned me out when they started to look like a job. There are lots of people who have had the same experience, and many of them looked to GW2 for relief. I don’t play video games to earn thing. I play video games because they are fun. Having a level playing field (ie having a stable, easy to reach power plateau) is MY idea of fun. Because than I can focus on becoming a better player, and not merely having a better character.

Two weeks is not a grind… at all.. one tier does not make a treadmill… at all.. the majority of these mats are all from refining mats already available… which most people should have donkey loads of thanks to Crown Pavilion and Clockwork Chaos…

Just because somewhere some dev said no dear treadmill does not mean that they would NEVER add any better gear… it just means they won’t do it every 3-6 months like cough WoW cough… Have they? No. So I would suggest to everyone who has been QQing about two weeks to get an ascended weapon to grab a tissue, wipe their eyes, and man/woman up wor two weeks out of their gaming lives… Stop expecting the best things in life for free for god’s sake…

You’re missing the point. PvE AT ALL is a grind for me. I’m still here because of WvW. Where you don’t make jack or kitten. I’m not here to craft, I’m not here to watch numbers go up and make me feel like I’m accomplishing something. I’m here to play in a competitive environment. GW2, like it’s predecessor was built around a PvP centered combat system. I expected the game to keep a relatively balanced playing field. As the fellow above me said, I don’t want ascended gear now, I want it GONE.

I’m still curious under which of the three above scenarios you started playing the game. Care to share?

I am OCD when it comes to collecting… I saw this game as a new MMo who’s aesthetics appealed to me. End of story.

PS. I know heaps of people who makes tons of gold from WvW so not sure how you are broke…

I love that quote by Mike O’Brien -I can’t wait for ArenaNet to release the game he’s talking about!

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Again if you consider two weeks a grind, I question why you ever got into MMOs in the first place…

In all technicalities, we don’t have much information on that. The “two weeks” per weapon part is ONLY for the time gating parts. It’s time you’ll not be able to shorten more.

Will it take only two weeks to gather all the other materials? How long to level your craft to 500? How many exotics you’ll need to salvage to get the special new component? How many dragon events you’ll need to complete to get those special ores?

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Ascended weapons and gear are SOLELY for the people who WANT a MILD post 80 grind… ie. the TOP PvPers and, like myself, collectors…

I have 0 respect for a so called “top” PvPer that needs his stats boost hidden behind heavy grind to win at PvP.

stale.9785:

Also, for the “it’s only two weeks crowd” let’s assume that, yes, you have the 50-60G of materials you need (per weapon) already. Now you just need 20 of something you can only get one of per day, per account. That’s 20 days.

I take a look at the characters I play regularly, and to get back to where I am right now, having best in slot everywhere, I’m looking at a absolute minimum of 320 days. Assuming I don’t miss a day. To get back to the level I’m at right now. Do you start to see the issue here?

I can knock that down, give up on all my alts, and play one character. That puts me at a mere 120 days, assuming I don’t ever skip one, to – again – get back to where I am right now. This is what a treadmill is. You keep walking to stay where you are – if you stop, you fall off. This is uncool.

Thats on you, alot of people don’t play several characters religiously…. and if they do they aren’t really casual.

As a casual Player I have 8 characters I started back in beta. Only 2 of my characters really have full ascended. The rest are just 80 with exotics and really subpar gear.

And that is not what a treadmill is.

A treadmill is where they release a FULL SET of gear, then 3 months later they release a new FULL SET of gear that is basically required for the next content which forces you to get it or you cant do the new content. Then they release another set then another set then another set.

GW2 has done no such thing over the course of an entire year they have released PART of a new set. And are just now releasing the weapon. A year and a half for an entire new tier of gear and no word on whether there will be a set after that. That is not a treadmill. That is a one time thing. If it starts repeating then by all means call it a treadmill.

Given it took about an hour per craft to hit 400 I would say not long…

Your question about drop rates could be turned around in your direction as well…

Everyone is QQing when they have NO idea what the drop rates will be like.

Lastly as I stated I am not a PvPer I am a collector.

stof.9341:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Again if you consider two weeks a grind, I question why you ever got into MMOs in the first place…

In all technicalities, we don’t have much information on that. The “two weeks” per weapon part is ONLY for the time gating parts. It’s time you’ll not be able to shorten more.

Will it take only two weeks to gather all the other materials? How long to level your craft to 500? How many exotics you’ll need to salvage to get the special new component? How many dragon events you’ll need to complete to get those special ores?

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Ascended weapons and gear are SOLELY for the people who WANT a MILD post 80 grind… ie. the TOP PvPers and, like myself, collectors…

I have 0 respect for a so called “top” PvPer that needs his stats boost hidden behind heavy grind to win at PvP.

Ascended gear and pvp are non factors.

Anyone that pvp’s in this game knows that Build/skill > gear any day of the week.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Given it took about an hour per craft to hit 400 I would say not long…

Your question about drop rates could be turned around in your direction as well…

Everyone is QQing when they have NO idea what the drop rates will be like.

Lastly as I stated I am not a PvPer I am a collector.

People are also forgetting the account wide 300% magic find they will be able to work towards which will likely increase drop rates for mats as well.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Given it took about an hour per craft to hit 400 I would say not long…

If you can afford to buy the mats. The crafting length is mostly determined by your gather speed…or buying power.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Morrigan.2809:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Seriously? I mean SERIOUSLY? I just don’t understand all the QQing that happens in MMOs these days! What the hell has happened to MMO society that you all have this sense of self entitlement? Why must it be I want this NOW or I am going to pitch a cry baby tantrum? God FORBID you have to WORK for something?

Do you walk into a work environment with ZERO experience DEMANDING that you be given a management position IMMEDIATELY?

NO!

So why in the world would you expect the best things in a game to be any different? SERIOUSLY?!

Maybe it’s a generational thing… I started with UO the EQ and many more after that… and before you all start talking about oh here he goes with his uphill both ways in the snow argument… no offense but… games used to be MUUUUUUCH harder… to the point that getting the best things would put most of the GW2 community into the fetal position whimpering for their momma…

I EXPECT to have to work to get what I want and by god I do just that… grow up and get over it… put on your big boy pants and spend the, OH NO, two weeks it takes to craft your ascended weapons… Jesus even when I say that it makes me laugh…

oK a couple of things.
people who are against Ascended gear mostly make reasonable posts, pointing out the flaws in the basic concept, not posts like this. I don’t know what to call this

If you don’t understand the issues involved, say so, read the posts that explain it.

The idea that you have to work in a game is stupid, it is a game, not a job. Most of us have played games like that, this is why be bought GW2.
There is also a big difference between working for goals of your choosing and having an arbitrary goal shoved down your throat by the game.

Nobody is being self- entitled, no-one is claiming they should get it for free- we are questioning the reason why we should get it at all.

As for your generational comment- I am 42.
I have enough stuff going on in my rl not to have the time or the energy to put up with nonsense from my hobbies that I use to relax.

Ok so let me put it this way…

Point out ONE aspect of the game (EXCEPT FRACTALS) that you CANNOT complete by only wearing exotic gear…

Ascended weapons and gear are SOLELY for the people who WANT a MILD post 80 grind… ie. the TOP PvPers and, like myself, collectors…

Whether or not you have this gear will NOT make or break your gaming experience… and no offense (and yes I know this is a matter of opinion) but given the fact that ANET loves Greatswords, I don’t have much hopes for the aesthetics of the new weapons… To me they look like crap. The ones I do go for will be transmutation bait…

So there you have it, my challenge to you is tell me a SINGLE aspect OUTSIDE of fractals that you cannot complete by using exotic gear…

Oh wait you can’t… the QQing by everyone is now moot…

ok I will spell it out for you since you do not seem to understand.

There is no part of the game that you cannot complete without exotics and in many cases rares.

The original premise was, lets have Ascended because fractals- stash the progression crowd in there.
This could easily have been done by adding infusions to exotics but the progression crowd would not have been pleased.
So we got a gear tier.

The initial stat boost was small and because of Fractals it could largely be ignored by people like me, who do not play Fractals because it is more boring that watching paint dry.

Fast forward a year and we have more and more trinkets and today weapons, soon armor and the stat increase becomes much larger.
PvE content does not support this, neither does WvWvW.
If you play WvWvW you are going to have to pvE to stay competitive.
In pvE they will have to add harder and harder content to support bigger and bigger gear numbers- that leads to a power-creep and content that you are locked out of until you get the gear.

None of this is in any shape or form what they marketed GW2 as for many, many years.
Player skill and level playing field is what they marketed the game (as). kitten?

So basically you are saying you do not understand the issues with Ascended at all.

Namu.5712:

— snip —

Nice try, but if you want to start calling out, I can do it too.
It was you who said initially that all i needed to do was login 5 minutes each day for two weeks, and I’ll have it. I was replying to that. You can scroll up, it’s still there. This can’t be more further from the truth. And that’s what my reply was all about, but you took it to another level.

I never said that one needs to have it tomorrow, nor the day after. In fact all I sad is that I won’t be able to get it in 2 weeks, like Lindsey mentioned in her video. How you understood that I want it “urgently” is beyond me, since I won’t go for ascended weapon, at all. I’ll be happy with my Legendary.

Do you even realize how much of dungeon running or WvW, one will need to do to get all the mats needed for the ascended, with current dungeon/WvW rewards? Champ-specific mats, jumping puzzle-specific mats, exotic-mats and so on…
I like how you keep conveniently forgetting the “full” story and full requirements. Back item: yeah you have 2 ways to get it, grind FotM or craft it. Nice way to forget that you still need to play FotM to get those mist essences, that are required by the recipe. So you are still locked into playing FotM. Also, when FotM was released the only way to get rings was through Maw bonus chest. Later they introduced pristines. Same goes for all other trinkets. Initially, there was only one way in getting them.

Again, I don’t know about you, but I got an exotic only once from all the world bosses I ever did. Only once. And it was some exotic mask from the bonus chest. Once! I can only dream of dropping something of any real value, Forget about the precursors. So with that drop rate of exotics, what do you honestly think that the drop rate of Teq’s ascended will be? I honestly hope it will be higher, but I highly doubt it.

Stop dismissing any argument people have just because it doesn’t conform to your play style. I don’t do much of the open world. It’s boring. Dungeons are fun, and I mostly run Arah because it’s pure fun, mechanic-, lore- and graphics-wise. IMO, it’s the most lore-heavy dungeon in this game. And I do WvW. So where does that leave people with similar playstyles as mine, who will go for ascended. Again, just because you like to roam open world, doesn’t mean the rest of the players have to do the same.

And please, stop pulling out arbitrary numbers out of thin air, just because they suit your point. This goes for all sides.

cesmode.4257:

zeromius.1604:

Maybe you should explain how time-gating a new tier of weapons and gear would make them “so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it.”

Have you looked at the requirements? Its a lot…

And now that tequatl has had a much needed revamp, finishing an event such as Teq will be very difficult. Even to muster 80 people, which is what is the average number of people needed. So to get ascended weapons and mats from events such as this will be a bit time consuming.

However they have already quoted that youll be able to aquire mats in a variety of existing content including dungeons, wvw and meta events.

ok i agree that the requirements are alot. However i think your seriously misguided if you think itll be out of reach for many players.

Morrigan.2809:

ok I will spell it out for you since you do not seem to understand.

There is no part of the game that you cannot complete without exotics and in many cases rares.

The original premise was, lets have Ascended because fractals- stash the progression crowd in there.
This could easily have been done by adding infusions to exotics but the progression crowd would not have been pleased.
So we got a gear tier.

The initial stat boost was small and because of Fractals it could largely be ignored by people like me, who do not play Fractals because it is more boring that watching paint dry.

Fast forward a year and we have more and more trinkets and today weapons, soon armor and the stat increase becomes much larger.
PvE content does not support this, neither does WvWvW.
If you play WvWvW you are going to have to pvE to stay competitive.
In pvE they will have to add harder and harder content to support bigger and bigger gear numbers- that leads to a power-creep and content that you are locked out of until you get the gear.
None of this is in any shape or form what they marketed GW2 as for many, many years.
Player skill and level playing field is what they marketed the game kitten basically you are saying you do not understand the issues with Ascended at all.

So you are suggesting that the game should not evolve and add more difficult content? If that’s the case then an MMO would run itself into the ground…

Gear Treadmill- multiple tiers of gear added every 3-6 months in an MMO

This is ONE tier mate… that’s it. The stat difference is negligible… Seriously… look at the stats. If someone is really good at WvW then the stat difference between them in exotics and the casual WvWer who spends most of their time in PVE will be moot… you should be able to stomp a mudhole in them anyways. If the stat difference were GAMEBREAKING then you argument would be valid…

psst btw… not sure if you watched the whole livestream or read the info on Dulfy but ummmmm you can get alot of the mats in WvW… just sayin…

Ballistic.4531:

Namu.5712:

— snip —

Nice try, but if you want to start calling out, I can do it too.
It was you who said initially that all i needed to do was login 5 minutes each day for two weeks, and I’ll have it. I was replying to that. You can scroll up, it’s still there. This can’t be more further from the truth. And that’s what my reply was all about, but you took it to another level.

I never said that one needs to have it tomorrow, nor the day after. In fact all I sad is that I won’t be able to get it in 2 weeks, like Lindsey mentioned in her video. How you understood that I want it “urgently” is beyond me, since I won’t go for ascended weapon, at all. I’ll be happy with my Legendary.

Do you even realize how much of dungeon running or WvW, one will need to do to get all the mats needed for the ascended, with current dungeon/WvW rewards? Champ-specific mats, jumping puzzle-specific mats, exotic-mats and so on…
I like how you keep conveniently forgetting the “full” story and full requirements. Back item: yeah you have 2 ways to get it, grind FotM or craft it. Nice way to forget that you still need to play FotM to get those mist essences, that are required by the recipe. So you are still locked into playing FotM. Also, when FotM was released the only way to get rings was through Maw bonus chest. Later they introduced pristines. Same goes for all other trinkets. Initially, there was only one way in getting them.

Again, I don’t know about you, but I got an exotic only once from all the world bosses I ever did. Only once. And it was some exotic mask from the bonus chest. Once! I can only dream of dropping something of any real value, Forget about the precursors. So with that drop rate of exotics, what do you honestly think that the drop rate of Teq’s ascended will be? I honestly hope it will be higher, but I highly doubt it.

Stop dismissing any argument people have just because it doesn’t conform to your play style. I don’t do much of the open world. It’s boring. Dungeons are fun, and I mostly run Arah because it’s pure fun, mechanic-, lore- and graphics-wise. IMO, it’s the most lore-heavy dungeon in this game. And I do WvW. So where does that leave people with similar playstyles as mine, who will go for ascended. Again, just because you like to roam open world, doesn’t mean the rest of the players have to do the same.

And please, stop pulling out arbitrary numbers out of thin air, just because they suit your point. This goes for all sides.

If you have all required mats already from playing the game the past few months, then all you really need to do is login at a craft center and hit the button. Or at a place of power. Then log back out.

If you dont have the mats that have been available for the past year, then sure your gonna have to play catch up a little bit. But thats like a brand new player complaining he has to craft to 400 and get to level 80 and that he has no gold -.-.

And again Ascended isn’t really required for anything. Yes its a small stat boost but its not needed nor required to remain competitive in any way shape or form. This is because the game is not built around stats but rather built around dodging, reading a fight and knowledge of the profession you are fighting as well as your build vs their build. Gear is the very last and farthest thing on the pvp totem pole in GW2. That however is not true about other mmo’s like WoW and games like Aion etc etc.

I enjoy playing the game. I am not going to login after the patch and say omg omg I need to start grinding. I will go check out the new content and changes. Go get my kitten kicked by the new dragon revamp with everyone else on the server. I will then go look at my crafting see what I have what I dont have and get to 500 (which in reality will probably take only 15-30 minutes). Probably do my daily, maybe monthly if its not gonna be to time consuming.

Namu.5712:

Morrigan.2809:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Seriously? I mean SERIOUSLY? I just don’t understand all the QQing that happens in MMOs these days! What the hell has happened to MMO society that you all have this sense of self entitlement? Why must it be I want this NOW or I am going to pitch a cry baby tantrum? God FORBID you have to WORK for something?

Do you walk into a work environment with ZERO experience DEMANDING that you be given a management position IMMEDIATELY?

NO!

So why in the world would you expect the best things in a game to be any different? SERIOUSLY?!

Maybe it’s a generational thing… I started with UO the EQ and many more after that… and before you all start talking about oh here he goes with his uphill both ways in the snow argument… no offense but… games used to be MUUUUUUCH harder… to the point that getting the best things would put most of the GW2 community into the fetal position whimpering for their momma…

I EXPECT to have to work to get what I want and by god I do just that… grow up and get over it… put on your big boy pants and spend the, OH NO, two weeks it takes to craft your ascended weapons… Jesus even when I say that it makes me laugh…

oK a couple of things.
people who are against Ascended gear mostly make reasonable posts, pointing out the flaws in the basic concept, not posts like this. I don’t know what to call this

If you don’t understand the issues involved, say so, read the posts that explain it.

The idea that you have to work in a game is stupid, it is a game, not a job. Most of us have played games like that, this is why be bought GW2.
There is also a big difference between working for goals of your choosing and having an arbitrary goal shoved down your throat by the game.

Nobody is being self- entitled, no-one is claiming they should get it for free- we are questioning the reason why we should get it at all.

As for your generational comment- I am 42.
I have enough stuff going on in my rl not to have the time or the energy to put up with nonsense from my hobbies that I use to relax.

Thats just it, its not a job even with ascended being introduced.

Its not required for dungeons, raiding or anything else. So therefore it is the player that looks at new things and views it as a job.

That is a messed up mentality to begin with.

I mean look at a board game like monopoly. The goal is to aquire more estates, and money then everyone else. You work your way around the board buying up properties and such. Do people view it as a job? No they view it as a game with a freaking goal lol.

Look at FPS games like battlefield or COD. They have progressive jumps in ranks, and weapons and loadouts for your weapons, are they required? No you can still shoot someone in the face and kill them without being a 5 star general with 1k hours under your belt and a golden ak that has a grip and other crap on it. Do you look at obtaining those weapon upgrades and such as a job? NO you play the game you have fun and you get them along the way.

A mmo normally requires players to adventure, gather, produce goods, build up characters to be strong…. traditionally speaking. GW2 accomplishes that. You aren’t being required to really do anything different then play the kitten game lol. How on earth do you view playing a game and gathering resources and stuff to increase your character’s efficiency or power as a job?
Do you view equipping new weapon sets and killing things with them to unlock the next one as a job?
Do you view getting skill points as you leveled for utility skills as a job?
Do you view getting to level 80 as a job?
Do you view crafting to 400 as a job?
Do you view gathering nodes as a job?
Do you view Daily activities and events as a job?
Do you view doing dungeons for exotic’s as a job?
Do you view gathering karma from events for exotics as a job?
Do you view exploring the world maps and completing them as a job?

If you answered yes to any of those you shouldn’t play mmo’s then. If you answered no to those then why the kitten are you complaining about ascended gear! Play the game and the gear will come.

I already have the gear I want- I do not want any more gear.
I like my characters the way they are and I play the game like a game.

By doing that I do not have a fraction of the resources to make even one weapon.

I do not care because I will ignore it like everything else tied to ascended which is why I buy dyes with my laurels.

When they introduce whatever content they undoubtedly will to support Ascended- I will be locked out because I play my game like a game.

Btw there is a huge difference between playing the game and gathering resources and farming your kitten off for those resources- the latter to me is a job and I won’t do it in a game.

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Gobhoblin.7582:

Ashen.2907:

Some of the PVE only skills tied to titles did provide a significant amount of power. They were easy mode approaches to powerful builds as top end builds without PVE only skills were capable of levels of performance at least comparable to PVE only builds.

You and I remember it quite differently. Lets agree to disagree, and let all these good folks get back to arguing about GW2, shall we?

I did give specific examples. Whatever your memory was of that, those skills existed and if you entered the meta game in PvE, you were expected to have them..and by many have them maxed out.

Anyone who played GW1 and has done things like DoA knows that Lightbringer levels were a requirement… but what I think he’s trying to tell you is that whatever happened in GW1 is irrelevant for GW2 and the manifesto and as a consequence for this discussion.

Now, I haven’t followed all posts here but is that relevant for this discussion?

GW1 did have grind but it had stuff I really wanted. GW2 has grind but for me it has no purpose so I don’t do it. I don’t mind grind always but the statement that they don’t want to make grindy games is a nice statement but I don’t think they managed to do it.

Most of the people who are complaining about grind are Guild Wars 1 veterans who claim there was no grind in Guild Wars 1. I’m saying same company, same game. It shifted from skills to gear, but there was still grind. It’s relevant because those who came from other MMOs, for the most part anyway, aren’t dying over this grind. Maybe they had time gating, which is another issue.

But the big discussion on this forums is that Anet lied to their core fans by having grind in the game, even though Guild Wars 1 that they loved had grind too.

This is a pattern over many threads, not just this one.

Morrigan.2809:

Btw there is a huge difference between playing the game and gathering resources and farming your kitten off for those resources- the latter to me is a job and I won’t do it in a game.

Its a game to me regardless. I dont see things in a game as a job.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Morrigan.2809:

ok I will spell it out for you since you do not seem to understand.

There is no part of the game that you cannot complete without exotics and in many cases rares.

The original premise was, lets have Ascended because fractals- stash the progression crowd in there.
This could easily have been done by adding infusions to exotics but the progression crowd would not have been pleased.
So we got a gear tier.

The initial stat boost was small and because of Fractals it could largely be ignored by people like me, who do not play Fractals because it is more boring that watching paint dry.

Fast forward a year and we have more and more trinkets and today weapons, soon armor and the stat increase becomes much larger.
PvE content does not support this, neither does WvWvW.
If you play WvWvW you are going to have to pvE to stay competitive.
In pvE they will have to add harder and harder content to support bigger and bigger gear numbers- that leads to a power-creep and content that you are locked out of until you get the gear.
None of this is in any shape or form what they marketed GW2 as for many, many years.
Player skill and level playing field is what they marketed the game kitten basically you are saying you do not understand the issues with Ascended at all.

So you are suggesting that the game should not evolve and add more difficult content? If that’s the case then an MMO would run itself into the ground…

Gear Treadmill- multiple tiers of gear added every 3-6 months in an MMO

This is ONE tier mate… that’s it. The stat difference is negligible… Seriously… look at the stats. If someone is really good at WvW then the stat difference between them in exotics and the casual WvWer who spends most of their time in PVE will be moot… you should be able to stomp a mudhole in them anyways. If the stat difference were GAMEBREAKING then you argument would be valid…

psst btw… not sure if you watched the whole livestream or read the info on Dulfy but ummmmm you can get alot of the mats in WvW… just sayin…

I am suggesting that evolution does not equal bigger numbers.

I have no problem with more difficult content- I am against fake difficulty because of bigger damage output.

A treadmill is running along to stay in the same place. That is what it is- call it a hamster wheel if you want.

When the game game out BIS was exotics, now it is ascended, who said they will not bring out another tier when this one is used up by the locusts who claim they want progression?

Vayne.8563:

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Gobhoblin.7582:

Ashen.2907:

Some of the PVE only skills tied to titles did provide a significant amount of power. They were easy mode approaches to powerful builds as top end builds without PVE only skills were capable of levels of performance at least comparable to PVE only builds.

You and I remember it quite differently. Lets agree to disagree, and let all these good folks get back to arguing about GW2, shall we?

I did give specific examples. Whatever your memory was of that, those skills existed and if you entered the meta game in PvE, you were expected to have them..and by many have them maxed out.

Anyone who played GW1 and has done things like DoA knows that Lightbringer levels were a requirement… but what I think he’s trying to tell you is that whatever happened in GW1 is irrelevant for GW2 and the manifesto and as a consequence for this discussion.

Now, I haven’t followed all posts here but is that relevant for this discussion?

GW1 did have grind but it had stuff I really wanted. GW2 has grind but for me it has no purpose so I don’t do it. I don’t mind grind always but the statement that they don’t want to make grindy games is a nice statement but I don’t think they managed to do it.

Most of the people who are complaining about grind are Guild Wars 1 veterans who claim there was no grind in Guild Wars 1. I’m saying same company, same game. It shifted from skills to gear, but there was still grind. It’s relevant because those who came from other MMOs, for the most part anyway, aren’t dying over this grind. Maybe they had time gating, which is another issue.

But the big discussion on this forums is that Anet lied to their core fans by having grind in the game, even though Guild Wars 1 that they loved had grind too.

This is a pattern over many threads, not just this one.

MMOs by definition are grind… doing a dungeon is grind… world completion is grind… I consider the boring and tedious Jormag fight small scale grind… Doing world events in general is grind… Champ trains is grind… Karma trains are grind… Legendaries are grind… High particle effect exotics are grind… ALL GRIND… GUESS WHAT?! Ascended is grind too! but you know what ALL of those things have in common? Including the new Ascended? NONE OF THEM are a requirement to progress or succeed in the game…

Morrigan.2809:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Morrigan.2809:

ok I will spell it out for you since you do not seem to understand.

There is no part of the game that you cannot complete without exotics and in many cases rares.

The original premise was, lets have Ascended because fractals- stash the progression crowd in there.
This could easily have been done by adding infusions to exotics but the progression crowd would not have been pleased.
So we got a gear tier.

The initial stat boost was small and because of Fractals it could largely be ignored by people like me, who do not play Fractals because it is more boring that watching paint dry.

Fast forward a year and we have more and more trinkets and today weapons, soon armor and the stat increase becomes much larger.
PvE content does not support this, neither does WvWvW.
If you play WvWvW you are going to have to pvE to stay competitive.
In pvE they will have to add harder and harder content to support bigger and bigger gear numbers- that leads to a power-creep and content that you are locked out of until you get the gear.
None of this is in any shape or form what they marketed GW2 as for many, many years.
Player skill and level playing field is what they marketed the game kitten basically you are saying you do not understand the issues with Ascended at all.

So you are suggesting that the game should not evolve and add more difficult content? If that’s the case then an MMO would run itself into the ground…

Gear Treadmill- multiple tiers of gear added every 3-6 months in an MMO

This is ONE tier mate… that’s it. The stat difference is negligible… Seriously… look at the stats. If someone is really good at WvW then the stat difference between them in exotics and the casual WvWer who spends most of their time in PVE will be moot… you should be able to stomp a mudhole in them anyways. If the stat difference were GAMEBREAKING then you argument would be valid…

psst btw… not sure if you watched the whole livestream or read the info on Dulfy but ummmmm you can get alot of the mats in WvW… just sayin…

I am suggesting that evolution does not equal bigger numbers.

I have no problem with more difficult content- I am against fake difficulty because of bigger damage output.

A treadmill is running along to stay in the same place. That is what it is- call it a hamster wheel if you want.

When the game game out BIS was exotics, now it is ascended, who said they will not bring out another tier when this one is used up by the locusts who claim they want progression?

If they do it would have to exceed Legendary and they won’t do that… look at the stats… there is no other room for a tier in between…