Guild Wars 2

TooBz.3065:

If you hold someone’s feet to the fire for everything they say, the next thing you know they don’t say anything.

One thing I think is missing from all these critiques of what they said is that people’s viewpoint change. I think ANet originally planned to have exotics be the top level gear and they changed their minds to be more responsive to the desires of the community.

Now, IMO, the smart thing to do was to come out and say something like – we planned X, you’ve asked for Y, so we are providing Y. Instead of saying things Y was planned for the start or Y isn’t Y because legendaries are still BiS.

But just because they aren’t the best at communicating, doesn’t mean we should say they lied. They changed their minds. If you want them to keep talking to us (or start again) then we need to collectively relax. Not everything they believe now is the same as what they believed then. It doesn’t mean they lied.

Talk is cheap. Especially from ANet. Because everything they say will probably change tomorrow. So what exactly is the use of them talking?

Cloud.7613:

A lot of people on this thread needs to think if they actually want to play the MMO genre in general, not just GW2. The same people who are acting like ANet is bringing out WoW gear grind where you need to get best in slot gear pre-raid, then raid multiple times per week, just to get DKP, with the chance that said item will drop, if you have the DKP to even get it, when in fact it may not drop period. MMO’s are grinds if you hadn’t found that out before GW2 you have now and there are way more bothersome issues GW2 has then this. I refuse to believe people who complain about grind in GW2 have played ANY other MMO.

I have played L2 quite a long time, so when you mention WoW as some kind of grind i say its you who has severe lack of experience.

MikaHR.1978:

TooBz.3065:

If you hold someone’s feet to the fire for everything they say, the next thing you know they don’t say anything.

One thing I think is missing from all these critiques of what they said is that people’s viewpoint change. I think ANet originally planned to have exotics be the top level gear and they changed their minds to be more responsive to the desires of the community.

Now, IMO, the smart thing to do was to come out and say something like – we planned X, you’ve asked for Y, so we are providing Y. Instead of saying things Y was planned for the start or Y isn’t Y because legendaries are still BiS.

But just because they aren’t the best at communicating, doesn’t mean we should say they lied. They changed their minds. If you want them to keep talking to us (or start again) then we need to collectively relax. Not everything they believe now is the same as what they believed then. It doesn’t mean they lied.

Talk is cheap. Especially from ANet. Because everything they say will probably change tomorrow. So what exactly is the use of them talking?

Sure, but my thought is that if they approached it differently, a little more here’s-what-we-thought, here’s-what-we-think, here’s-how-it-changed and a little less message-from-the-mountain then they’d probably get a better reaction.

In some ways, I agree with Vayne. I don’t think they lied when they said there was not going to be VP in the manifesto. I do think they lied when they said is was planned all along. And I think they are playing fast and loose with the facts when they say ascended will be the last tier. (edit: last gear tier but not the end of VP)

Generally, I think it’s a fair criticism to say that ANet says a lot of things that imply a course of action that they do not later follow. They make open ended statements that are worded to allow you to believe what you want to believe without ever actually committing to anything.

Personally, I would rather see a definitive statement of “i don’t know” rather than the terrible PR messaging they’ve done so far. But to get there we have to move past where we are.

@toobz: Ive been saying that all along. They say things in front of the camera and during interviews in ways that allow them the freedom to wobble back and forth depending on the direction of the wind. That way, they can sit back and say “Well, we meant it like XYZ..not the way you understood it. sorry”

If this Ascended gear crafting isn’t grind, then I don’t know what is. They’ve had their chance. There’s no kittening way that they can say “we don’t make grindy games” any more.

The game is supposed to be FUN, not a GRIND.

You shouldn’t even realize that you’re grinding while playing.

This though, this is just dumb.

I put 200g down into crafting to try to get a dusk in the mystic forge and never got one, then they go ahead and increase the crafting cap to 500.

That’s basically 150 hours of completely wasted time spent in the game. I left this game for 2-3 months and I think I’m gonna leave permanently if this is the direction the game is going in.

Why should I put more time in this game if my time is being wasted playing it. Give me an answer ANET.

Put it this way: I am having more fun in Neverwinter/Defiance/Firefall than this AAA mmo at the moment. Reason: No grind. No time gating. Do what I want when I want.

Defiance? Never heard of it, what is it about?

I did try Neverwinter & Firefall but can’t say they were any better than GW2. Neverwinter was a grind for leveling up (killing mobs and doing pointless quests).
Firefall just left me wandering cluelessly.

I still hope there are better mmos out there than GW2 though. If GW2 is the best one there is, the whole genre is messed up.

Sirendor.1394:

Defiance? Never heard of it, what is it about?

I did try Neverwinter & Firefall but can’t say they were any better than GW2. Neverwinter was a grind for leveling up (killing mobs and doing pointless quests).
Firefall just left me wandering cluelessly.

I still hope there are better mmos out there than GW2 though. If GW2 is the best one there is, the whole genre is messed up.

The whole genre is messed up. That’s the problem.

Sirendor.1394:

Defiance? Never heard of it, what is it about?

I did try Neverwinter & Firefall but can’t say they were any better than GW2. Neverwinter was a grind for leveling up (killing mobs and doing pointless quests).
Firefall just left me wandering cluelessly.

I still hope there are better mmos out there than GW2 though. If GW2 is the best one there is, the whole genre is messed up.

Defiance is like Mass Effect without the story. Kind of, I think. That sounds kind of right lol. It’s based off the SyFy show Defiance (which probably doesn’t help you if you don’t know what it is in the first place lol). It’s not really a bad game, just doesn’t have a lot of content and was poorly done. The idea is nice, but the execution needed a lot of work.

Vayne.8563:

Sirendor.1394:

Defiance? Never heard of it, what is it about?

I did try Neverwinter & Firefall but can’t say they were any better than GW2. Neverwinter was a grind for leveling up (killing mobs and doing pointless quests).
Firefall just left me wandering cluelessly.

I still hope there are better mmos out there than GW2 though. If GW2 is the best one there is, the whole genre is messed up.

The whole genre is messed up. That’s the problem.

Sigh. FPS and MOBA games then, however much I dislike their lack of depth.

Vayne.8563:

Sirendor.1394:

Defiance? Never heard of it, what is it about?

I did try Neverwinter & Firefall but can’t say they were any better than GW2. Neverwinter was a grind for leveling up (killing mobs and doing pointless quests).
Firefall just left me wandering cluelessly.

I still hope there are better mmos out there than GW2 though. If GW2 is the best one there is, the whole genre is messed up.

The whole genre is messed up. That’s the problem.

This is why, other than GW2 and I guess Neverwinter, I have been gravitating toward different types of massive online games. Defiance gives you a gun, in an open world and space with other players, and just lets you play. No guiding hand other than a main story which you can completely ignore. I complete main missions when I want, side missions when I want, participate in ark falls and sieges when I want, hotshots/rampages/emergencies/time trials when I want. No fear of being slightly less powerful. It is all equalized. You customize your playstyle and progress via the insane amount of weapons you pick up. The “what I want when I want” is what GW2 tried to be but failed and is now in a downward spiral toward VP, grind, and time gated crap.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Defiance is like Mass Effect without the story. Kind of, I think. That sounds kind of right lol. It’s based off the SyFy show Defiance (which probably doesn’t help you if you don’t know what it is in the first place lol). It’s not really a bad game, just doesn’t have a lot of content and was poorly done. The idea is nice, but the execution needed a lot of work.

Thanks for the response. Not really what I’m looking for then. I like games with a fantasy setting featuring swords/bows/magic but with something unique to them, not the same old stereotype stuff. GW2 was unique in it that it brought their own races that were different from any I saw before, but I just can’t put up with the grind.

cesmode.4257:

Put it this way: I am having more fun in Neverwinter/Defiance/Firefall than this AAA mmo at the moment. Reason: No grind. No time gating. Do what I want when I want.

Hows Firefall, was eyeing it for a while and nows a good time to try?

MikaHR.1978:

cesmode.4257:

Put it this way: I am having more fun in Neverwinter/Defiance/Firefall than this AAA mmo at the moment. Reason: No grind. No time gating. Do what I want when I want.

Hows Firefall, was eyeing it for a while and nows a good time to try?

Its a good shooter in open world. Crafting is a huge cornerstone of that game and is ridiculously intricate. Best crafting system Ive seen in a game. I enjoy it from time to time. I dont want to get into describing other games too much so that this thread is locked. I merely compared and contrasted my enjoyment with other games and my enjoyment in correlation with ascended gear and grind in guild wars 2 (which was supposed to be my non-grindy and non VP game).

But it is free to download and play.

PM me if you want to know more.

cesmode.4257:

MikaHR.1978:

cesmode.4257:

Put it this way: I am having more fun in Neverwinter/Defiance/Firefall than this AAA mmo at the moment. Reason: No grind. No time gating. Do what I want when I want.

Hows Firefall, was eyeing it for a while and nows a good time to try?

Its a good shooter in open world. Crafting is a huge cornerstone of that game and is ridiculously intricate. Best crafting system Ive seen in a game. I enjoy it from time to time. I dont want to get into describing other games too much so that this thread is locked. I merely compared and contrasted my enjoyment with other games and my enjoyment in correlation with ascended gear and grind in guild wars 2 (which was supposed to be my non-grindy and non VP game).

But it is free to download and play.

PM me if you want to know more.

Probably will try it since a lot of free time just opened in my schedule

Well I accidentally deleted FF from my pc. Dunno if I’ll download it again soon, but if I do will contact you.

People that keep falling back on that no grind statement are like people that take the bible literally. Annoying.

ophidic.1279:

People that keep falling back on that no grind statement are like people that take the bible literally. Annoying.

As annoying as those bible people are, they are entitled to voice opinions and whatnot.

This is the first MMO/online game that I have been so frustrated over due to broken promises or grey promises. No other dev has made such bold statements prior to launch. Other devs simply say “We will have dungeons, there will be raids. There are three factions where you can acquire better gear. There will be guild housing”. Arenanet said “There will be no grinding”…depends on your definition I guess? “There will be no treadmill”. Depends on your definition of treadmill? “The champion you killed wont spawn 10 minutes later” Oh, I guess you should have said you were referring to personal story.

No other dev aside from GW2 made such bold promises to the playerbase prior to launch to lure them in. Now that we see these promises or statements were just a few shades of grey, it infuriates a lot of people and people are walking away from it, especially with this patch.

Shelledfade.6435:

The game is supposed to be FUN, not a GRIND.

You shouldn’t even realize that you’re grinding while playing.

This though, this is just dumb.

I put 200g down into crafting to try to get a dusk in the mystic forge and never got one, then they go ahead and increase the crafting cap to 500.

That’s basically 150 hours of completely wasted time spent in the game. I left this game for 2-3 months and I think I’m gonna leave permanently if this is the direction the game is going in.

Why should I put more time in this game if my time is being wasted playing it. Give me an answer ANET.

If the grind isn’t fun then you’re playing it wrong.

ophidic.1279:

Shelledfade.6435:

The game is supposed to be FUN, not a GRIND.

You shouldn’t even realize that you’re grinding while playing.

This though, this is just dumb.

I put 200g down into crafting to try to get a dusk in the mystic forge and never got one, then they go ahead and increase the crafting cap to 500.

That’s basically 150 hours of completely wasted time spent in the game. I left this game for 2-3 months and I think I’m gonna leave permanently if this is the direction the game is going in.

Why should I put more time in this game if my time is being wasted playing it. Give me an answer ANET.

If the grind isn’t fun then you’re playing it wrong.

Anet encourages playing it wrong (aka. grinding). They have shown that with every update. Grinding is the only way to get anything at all in this game.

cesmode.4257:

ophidic.1279:

People that keep falling back on that no grind statement are like people that take the bible literally. Annoying.

As annoying as those bible people are, they are entitled to voice opinions and whatnot.

This is the first MMO/online game that I have been so frustrated over due to broken promises or grey promises. No other dev has made such bold statements prior to launch. Other devs simply say “We will have dungeons, there will be raids. There are three factions where you can acquire better gear. There will be guild housing”. Arenanet said “There will be no grinding”…depends on your definition I guess? “There will be no treadmill”. Depends on your definition of treadmill? “The champion you killed wont spawn 10 minutes later” Oh, I guess you should have said you were referring to personal story.

No other dev aside from GW2 made such bold promises to the playerbase prior to launch to lure them in. Now that we see these promises or statements were just a few shades of grey, it infuriates a lot of people and people are walking away from it, especially with this patch.

God, if there was NO GRINDING, NONE AT ALL, it would just be “here’s your thingy” go out and floss like a gangsta and maybe do some content if you can be bothered.

No grinding to get on level ground with other players. And a few extra stats doesn’t give you an edge, being a good player gives you an edge.

Sirendor.1394:

ophidic.1279:

Shelledfade.6435:

The game is supposed to be FUN, not a GRIND.

You shouldn’t even realize that you’re grinding while playing.

This though, this is just dumb.

I put 200g down into crafting to try to get a dusk in the mystic forge and never got one, then they go ahead and increase the crafting cap to 500.

That’s basically 150 hours of completely wasted time spent in the game. I left this game for 2-3 months and I think I’m gonna leave permanently if this is the direction the game is going in.

Why should I put more time in this game if my time is being wasted playing it. Give me an answer ANET.

If the grind isn’t fun then you’re playing it wrong.

Anet encourages playing it wrong (aka. grinding). They have shown that with every update. Grinding is the only way to get anything at all in this game.

Grinding is the only way to get anything ever. Man, if GW2 is bad for you, then you’re gonna hate mortgages and car payments.

cesmode.4257:

ophidic.1279:

People that keep falling back on that no grind statement are like people that take the bible literally. Annoying.

As annoying as those bible people are, they are entitled to voice opinions and whatnot.

This is the first MMO/online game that I have been so frustrated over due to broken promises or grey promises. No other dev has made such bold statements prior to launch. Other devs simply say “We will have dungeons, there will be raids. There are three factions where you can acquire better gear. There will be guild housing”. Arenanet said “There will be no grinding”…depends on your definition I guess? “There will be no treadmill”. Depends on your definition of treadmill? “The champion you killed wont spawn 10 minutes later” Oh, I guess you should have said you were referring to personal story.

No other dev aside from GW2 made such bold promises to the playerbase prior to launch to lure them in. Now that we see these promises or statements were just a few shades of grey, it infuriates a lot of people and people are walking away from it, especially with this patch.

How come you ignore the quotes like Eric Flannum saying there will be things to grind for for those who enjoy that play style, but there won’t be required grind? Because he did say that, or something very close to it.

The grind is optional. You don’t need that stuff, unless you’ve talked yourself into needing it.

Vayne.8563:

The grind is optional. You don’t need that stuff, unless you’ve talked yourself into needing it.

Yeah… Like how I don’t have the time or desire to grind up a legendary right now so i’m just simply not doing it, even though I would very much like one!

I play for fun. The moment I feel as though I have to do something I don’t want to do in order to remain on the same footing as other players I’m out.

That said, I’m logging off and playing something else. I’ll return when it’s reasonably fun to do the above.

The trick is don’t compare your progress to joe schmoe running by you.

This is just like getting super jelly at someone in gucci stuff when you’re wearing wal-mart brand.

Sunglasses still provide shade, shirt is still a shirt.

^Until you enter a fashion contest with the person next to you.

The comparison being WvW style PvP or being picked for PvE groups.

Having no advancement post 80 will be the death of this game. There needs to be incentive to advance your character. As fun as PvE and PvP is in this game, it will get old if there is no “point” other than just enjoying the experience of completing the dungeon or pvp battle.

That’s not to say everything should be a grind, but to put up an arbitrary wall that says “the only advancement you get is leaderboards and cosmetic” will lead to people getting bored very quickly.

This is an MMO. You have to work to improve your character. Where is the kittening about having to level your character? Where is the kittening about having to obtain skill points to unlock your skills?

When you leveled your character, were you doing it because “gosh darn each one of these quests is just so fun, I can’t wait to see the next one!” or was it because you wanted to keep advancing your character?

Games get boring. You need carrots to keep you moving forward. End of story.

MMO’s are a grind and ANet probably tried to avoid it, but it failed. If you don’t quit now due to more ascended items coming into the game, you would have quit with nothing to do sooner rather then later and what would ANet have to fall back on then? Would you rather the game die because a very low population complains on the forum doesn’t want something, or would you prefer the game lives and dies by its maker because like it or not, they know more about GW2’s situation then any of us.

Besides, a lot of you should really, seriously think about whether MMO’s are really for you, because if you have a problem with this low tier, spread across a long time gear grind is bad, some other MMO’s, WoW included will give you nightmares.

Great post. Sooo what is Anets reply? Waitinggggggggggggg….??

Liars, liars, liars, liars.

200g down the drain in mystic forge when I crafted exotics 2-3 months ago trying to simply get dusk so I could make twilight.

I never got it, cuz its based on 100% luck. So I quit the game. I come back to the game…

Now they say " Hey shelled, guess what? Gonna need you to craft a whole bunch of exotics again!"

Yeah, I’ll pass. This game is a joke now, even worse than it was before when you had to rely on LUCK to get a legendary.

Idiotic system. I’ve been shafted way too hard to continue playing this game. If Anet want’s to give me my 200g back that I lost on their precursor gambling system I’ll gladly play again.

@shelle: Well, no one forced you to dump that much money into the mystic toilet. I probably put nearly as much to be honest. But we cannot blame arenanet for those kinds of choices that we make.

We can scrutinize their decisions to move this game toward more grind than any MMO on the market.

I seriously would spend more time doing “un fun” activities in this game than I would in a traditional Verticle Progression game that knows how to do VP well. Im not against VP, but do it properly and not via this insane materials gathering, luck bathing, time gated nonsense. Let us earn it from completing difficult content. No, the troll in queensdale is not difficult. The new tequatl might be. This remains to be seen. Even still, remove all of this crafting BS for ascended gear, and have the exact items dropped in chests from Orr temples, or revamped world bosses.

I’m in agreement with the resistance against the false promises and deceptions. by our “leaders.”

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Gobhoblin.7582:

Ashen.2907:

Some of the PVE only skills tied to titles did provide a significant amount of power. They were easy mode approaches to powerful builds as top end builds without PVE only skills were capable of levels of performance at least comparable to PVE only builds.

You and I remember it quite differently. Lets agree to disagree, and let all these good folks get back to arguing about GW2, shall we?

I did give specific examples. Whatever your memory was of that, those skills existed and if you entered the meta game in PvE, you were expected to have them..and by many have them maxed out.

Anyone who played GW1 and has done things like DoA knows that Lightbringer levels were a requirement… but what I think he’s trying to tell you is that whatever happened in GW1 is irrelevant for GW2 and the manifesto and as a consequence for this discussion.

Now, I haven’t followed all posts here but is that relevant for this discussion?

GW1 did have grind but it had stuff I really wanted. GW2 has grind but for me it has no purpose so I don’t do it. I don’t mind grind always but the statement that they don’t want to make grindy games is a nice statement but I don’t think they managed to do it.

That’s the nicest way of putting it, and one I’d actually agree with. “They wanted to but they didn’t manage it.” As opposed to “they lied to us to get our money”.

Meanwhile, I’ve got about a ton of Bloodstone Dust and am kind of bottlenecked on what to do with it until I sit down and start working the Huntsman station.

I really wonder what the divorce rate is going to look like 20 years from now for all the folks convinced that ANet are liars.

Gehenna.3625:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Given it took about an hour per craft to hit 400 I would say not long…

If you can afford to buy the mats. The crafting length is mostly determined by your gather speed…or buying power.

I had a lot of T6 materials I wasn’t using – I had all the exotic gear I really wanted already, so I wasn’t using it. I mean, I did use a lot of Vicious Fangs but I wanted to upgrade off Mad Memories for a quiver.

That’s it, really. The T6 bottleneck is in two places for crafting most often: Fine materials and Ectoplasm. Ectoplasm can be attained fairly regularly by doing a lot of World Bosses and salvaging their Rares. (Do they also give Essences of Luck? Eh, don’t know . . .)

Fine materials are harder, and they are the bottleneck, the throttling component to ALL crafting. It requires buying or farming to get it done fast.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Gobhoblin.7582:

Ashen.2907:

Some of the PVE only skills tied to titles did provide a significant amount of power. They were easy mode approaches to powerful builds as top end builds without PVE only skills were capable of levels of performance at least comparable to PVE only builds.

You and I remember it quite differently. Lets agree to disagree, and let all these good folks get back to arguing about GW2, shall we?

I did give specific examples. Whatever your memory was of that, those skills existed and if you entered the meta game in PvE, you were expected to have them..and by many have them maxed out.

Anyone who played GW1 and has done things like DoA knows that Lightbringer levels were a requirement… but what I think he’s trying to tell you is that whatever happened in GW1 is irrelevant for GW2 and the manifesto and as a consequence for this discussion.

Now, I haven’t followed all posts here but is that relevant for this discussion?

GW1 did have grind but it had stuff I really wanted. GW2 has grind but for me it has no purpose so I don’t do it. I don’t mind grind always but the statement that they don’t want to make grindy games is a nice statement but I don’t think they managed to do it.

That’s the nicest way of putting it, and one I’d actually agree with. “They wanted to but they didn’t manage it.” As opposed to “they lied to us to get our money”.

Meanwhile, I’ve got about a ton of Bloodstone Dust and am kind of bottlenecked on what to do with it until I sit down and start working the Huntsman station.

That’s too nice of a way to put it. More like: they wanted to, but once the launch went beyond expectations, they got greedy and decided to cater to the general MMO audience instead of their original intended audience (casuals, those sick of grinding for stats).

fadeaway.2807:

^Until you enter a fashion contest with the person next to you.

Aw, man. I miss those crazy costume contests in Atlas Park.

I got my older warrior’s weaponsmithing up to around 425 or so tonight and then I thought, what the hell am I doing? I don’t want to do this. So I switched to one of my new guys and crafted some higher level weapons for her to use because, hey, after I used the happy birthday insta-20 scroll one of my other characters got and played for a couple of hours or so on this newly level 20 sylvari guardian, no useable higher level weapons dropped for her. Funny how often that happens. She did get a princess something or other dress. One of my other guys got a wig. Weird. I feel sorry for that princess running around out there somewhere without her dress and her wig.

Where was I? Oh, yeah.

My (relatively) new warrior went from level 26 to level 36 recently and at level 36 was still using the level 26 weapons and armor I’d bought when he hit level 26 because he hadn’t had any luck with drops from level 20 or so to level 26. Still with me? Good. So I bought him some level 36 gear on the TP. Shortly thereafter he happened to be in the right place at the right time for an invasion, and actually got some (slightly better) stuff he could actually use. Turn the pigeons loose!

(Yes, yes, sell all the stuff they can’t use and use the proceeds to finance stuff they can use. Yes, of course. But kitten it, getting cool drops I can use right away is, as they say on the internet, MOAR fun. For me. YMMV and all that.)

Anyway. It seems the road to ascension is not a road I care to travel, due to all the speed bumps and grinding of gears required. What else ya got, anet?

Lord Kuru.3685:

That’s too nice of a way to put it. More like: they wanted to, but once the launch went beyond expectations, they got greedy and decided to cater to the general MMO audience instead of their original intended audience (casuals, those sick of grinding for stats).

If you can’t prove greed, stop ascribing it to them. Don’t look for malice (or incompetence) when there’s much more simple answers.

Going for “greed” or “incompetence” or “they just want to make us suffer” makes arguments look petty and personal, weak and easily just pushed aside by people who don’t agree with you.

Tachenon.5270:

Anyway. It seems the road to ascension is not a road I care to travel, due to all the speed bumps and grinding of gears required. What else ya got, anet?

Tequatl Rising, I’m guessing, is the next thing. With potential for further revamps of other major world bosses based on their feedback from players tackling that one.

I care less about Ascended gear this week and more about SAB and much more about Tequatl two weeks from now.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Tachenon.5270:

Anyway. It seems the road to ascension is not a road I care to travel, due to all the speed bumps and grinding of gears required. What else ya got, anet?

Tequatl Rising, I’m guessing, is the next thing. With potential for further revamps of other major world bosses based on their feedback from players tackling that one.

I care less about Ascended gear this week and more about SAB and much more about Tequatl two weeks from now.

Not looking forward to anything from Anet right now. Put up with class nerfs in PvE, tons of inconvenience, bugs, poor design etc. But this gear grind is seriously making me want to uninstall GW2 from my hard disk.

Good thing I never played WoW before.

Khal Drogo.9631:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Tachenon.5270:

Anyway. It seems the road to ascension is not a road I care to travel, due to all the speed bumps and grinding of gears required. What else ya got, anet?

Tequatl Rising, I’m guessing, is the next thing. With potential for further revamps of other major world bosses based on their feedback from players tackling that one.

I care less about Ascended gear this week and more about SAB and much more about Tequatl two weeks from now.

Not looking forward to anything from Anet right now. Put up with class nerfs in PvE, tons of inconvenience, bugs, poor design etc. But this gear grind is seriously making me want to uninstall GW2 from my hard disk.

Good thing I never played WoW before.

Well, that’s you. I’m talking about myself in that, since I can’t speak for other people.

No grind?!? The game is a year old, if there’s no grind the MMO move on to another game were you can grind. I do which this game was more friendly to multiple characters. It feels like I am missing out on all the good rewards because there is too much gear to grind for all my alts. Or that I am missing out on more variety like WvW or PvP because I am too busy grinding gear for alts.

Cloud.7613:

A lot of people on this thread needs to think if they actually want to play the MMO genre in general, not just GW2. The same people who are acting like ANet is bringing out WoW gear grind where you need to get best in slot gear pre-raid, then raid multiple times per week, just to get DKP, with the chance that said item will drop, if you have the DKP to even get it, when in fact it may not drop period. MMO’s are grinds if you hadn’t found that out before GW2 you have now and there are way more bothersome issues GW2 has then this. I refuse to believe people who complain about grind in GW2 have played ANY other MMO.

Have you heard of GW1? It didn’t have those gear treadmill, grinding for stats. So you think it’s unreasonable for players that play the sequel to be disappointed that they are tricked into another grind-fest MMO? The biggest selling point of Guild Wars is that it’s not like other MMOS. The president of Arenanet even said so himself.

Doon.2364:

Cloud.7613:

A lot of people on this thread needs to think if they actually want to play the MMO genre in general, not just GW2. The same people who are acting like ANet is bringing out WoW gear grind where you need to get best in slot gear pre-raid, then raid multiple times per week, just to get DKP, with the chance that said item will drop, if you have the DKP to even get it, when in fact it may not drop period. MMO’s are grinds if you hadn’t found that out before GW2 you have now and there are way more bothersome issues GW2 has then this. I refuse to believe people who complain about grind in GW2 have played ANY other MMO.

Have you heard of GW1? It didn’t have those gear treadmill, grinding for stats. So you think it’s unreasonable for players that play the sequel to be disappointed that they are tricked into another grind-fest MMO? The biggest selling point of Guild Wars is that it’s not like other MMOS. The president of Arenanet even said so himself.

No it had a skill treadmill and people grinded levels to level up their skills. So on a skill it’s okay but on gear (that makes less of a difference and you don’t actually need) it’s okay?

Remember how in GW1, you could be competitive in every game mode with a sword purchased for a few grawl scalps, and armor that while not the prettiest you could easily obtain a maxed set of by the time you hit the level cap?

In fact, people still play GW1 (I occasionally do as well) and swords still do the same 15-22 damage today that they did when the game was first released.

IMHO, Ascended weapons should have been a skin, the patch should have addressed sigils on 2 handers along with basing the power of skills like Engy kits and Ele Conjures on the equipped weapons, and encounter dynamics should have been adjusted (i.e. the Tequatl fight) to be more challenging not due to larger HP pools but varying and interesting mechanics.

Of course, its much easier and cheaper to institute a gear treadmill while tricking game media and the playerbase into not believing your game deserves the moniker of Grind Wars 2. I’m assuming the same people who thought up Ascended Crafting were the ones behind PvE skills in EoTN and the LOLGRINDY speedbooking of titles, or having to re-do the same vanquish a hundred times.

I dont mind ascended being the last tier of gear but the amount of time to get ONE is ridiculous, much less multiple sets of every weapon for every class.

I wonder what the staff meeting for this decision was like. I would be happy to point the finger at NCSoft if that was the case.

Vayne.8563:

No it had a skill treadmill and people grinded levels to level up their skills. So on a skill it’s okay but on gear (that makes less of a difference and you don’t actually need) it’s okay?

PUG AC Path 2 naked with white non-max weapons. Or any dungeon path really. Or survive one of Scarlett’s invasions. Nobody grinded levels in GW1 to level up their skills. There was nothing to spend skillpoints on other than the occasional conset (contrast the cost in skillpoints of just one GW2 Legendary), and in the metagame most builds were very similar, such kitten Nuker Necros or Panic Mesmers, which meant with the number of skillpoints accrued via natural leveling and gameplay one could possess most of if not all meta builds easily.

Plus, if ANet wanted to re-balance the meta, they simply altered some skills, leaving weapon damage alone. Continually adding higher tiers of gear when a whopping amount of actual skills are still bugged/unbalanced will only exacerbate the balance issues in the game. I mean, a full year after release and the trait system, the BASIS of GW2 builds and gameplay diversity is still broken and bugged to some extent for all classes, and some really get the shaft.

ANet needs to stop adding crap like Rox and Braham into the game (honestly who cares about her stupid devourer?) and fix the bugged class features and get a semblance of real balance going so that classes like Engineer, Elementalist, Necromancer and Ranger are brought up to par with some of the more recognized dominating classes, across all game modes, which means fixing the Warrior in sPvP and the like. But as long as ANet keeps pumping out stuff like the SAB (OOH SHINY) we’re distracted like raccoons with tinfoil, with coincidental associated items in the Gem Store that all of a sudden provide a distinct advantage (Infinite Continue Coin).