Guild Wars 2

I’m okay with the game being casualised if there is other hard mode content making up for it.

I’m waiting to see what the challenging content is that ArenaNet is teasing us about. So I will wait and see.

My 2 copper, It’s difficult to find a perfect balance to please all of the players so we will always have threads like this.

Great the youtube video talks about personal story…. its made to be easy since now you outlevel it before you can even start it.

The tentonhammer article is wrong about the challenging group content

http://www.gamezone.com/previews/interview-talking-guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-with-arenanet-s-development-director-jsmh

“Is there going to be small group instanced content — basically, are there going to be dungeons?

We will be detailing more of the hard challenging content.

The Wyvern fight is a good example of what we are looking for and doing more of in the future. That Wyvern fight, if you think about it, that’s just in the open world potentially – well it was in our demo and that’s more of the stuff that will be in the open world.

If you take that even further, you can see, sort of, what you can extrapolate out and see what we are thinking about for challenging hard group content in the future.

We will talk about it as we get closer to the launch date."

So the wyvern is just a step in the right direction.

I only read the TTH article but if HoT featured what he wanted, it would be a strike against it for me. Why? Because I hate forced group content. Why? Because formal party play in GW2 has devolved into a very elitist meta. Not the content, the party. If you don’t have your own guild or regular group of friends, PUGs of this type of content quickly becomes a “you must run X in Y gear and study YouTube videos of runs so you know what to do” otherwise you won’t find teammates. That’s why I’m happy that they made Arah soloable. Otherwise you either party up with players that will cut a newbie zero slack or be forced to pay players to come with you.

You want “challenging group content” there are other games, GW2 is a game for those who want an escape from that.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Wuselknusel.4082:

I’m not ok with the game getting more casualized, but ANet wont change their mind on this one.

They will have to someday. Casuals come and go very fast and their supply is not infinite.

Really? I’m a casual gamer and I’ve been with GW2 since BWE2, so have a lot of my casual friends.

casual players should not be synonymous with low iq – I do agree the ‘group’ in the challenging content, can be a challenge all itself with finding a normal playing group that doesn’t want to farm exploits for fun, that isn’t fun… but that doesn’t mean the game has to teletubbied either!

it’s like some parts of the game are unreasonably hard, and others are unreasonably easy…..anything that is somewhat balanced, gets ripped apart with patches.

Casual players aren’t idiots, and they don’t want easy mode. They want a game where they can relax.

I’m a casual player. I love hard games, though. It’s when they get stupidly hard that it becomes a problem with me. I haven’t fought Teq in awhile because of his absurd difficulty and lack of loot to compensate for it. I’m not going to attempt to kill him, and if I win, just get a spoon for all of that.

Hardcore players need to stop equating casual players with easy mode and stupidity. We’re not stupid, and we don’t want easy mode. We want a balanced game with the occasionally fun hard mode.

Reverence.6915:

Challenging content doesn’t have to equal gear treadmill or missing out on stuff when RL takes you away from the game.

Challenging content simply means content that you can’t autoattack your way through to completion, where you have to look for tells and time your dodges. Where you need to have skill rotations spot on to keep sustain and DPS up. Where you have to juggle aggro in order to keep the party alive if someone stuffs up. Where highly involved theorycrafting for builds is required to push the meta in different ways.

GW2 lacks all of that right now except in its PvP.

Let’s be brutally honest here, GW2’s PvE is a joke.

Glad that someone see the point I want to bring :’)

Summaryizing a awnser trough all the different opinions putted in the topic : I ain’t talking about gear treadmill, or usual super elite content (I even think we kinda have some elite content , like the gauntlet, teq or some of the LS achievments). I Am talking about the core experience, the levelling experience, the personal history experience.

It not just because it is the personal history that it need to be as easy as smash 1-1-1 (And I am not kiding, since into the first instances all you have acess is the skill 1 basically).

A-net has the capacity to “Build a better centaur”, they are just decided to not make it aparently, since the centaurs in PS are jsut as dumb as they can possibly be.

PS: Casual is a whole different than easy mode. And actual levelling and personal history experience, are easy mode

just for clarity, to me casual means, I don’t play all day, just to relax. No plans on joining some elite squad to earn trophies, doesn’t mean i wouldn’t mind sparring them when i have a moment.

Ricky.4706:

just for clarity, to me casual means, I don’t play all day, just to relax. No plans on joining some elite squad to earn trophies, doesn’t mean i wouldn’t mind sparring them when i have a moment.

It seems that most here needed to be reminded of that.
What I believe OP wants to change is the dificulty of the content, not the amount of time you are required to play to be on par.

BTW great rig

I would not mind a change in GW2’s content difficulty, but the current way the devs are doing it is wrong. I’d also like to note that I stay away or leave other MMOs (and I also left League for this reason) because of toxic communities centered around the ‘one ultimate build that you must have, or you can’t compete.’

GW2 is… or was about having fun with your playstyle. That you could succeed with your playstyle. From a thief player’s perspective, the recent patch hasn’t given us that. Granted, it’s a recent patch so balance changes are coming. :P

‘Hardcores’ in this game refuse to accept there’s a gray area between extremely casual players and them. Don’t even try to fight that, it’s an kitten thing. Everyone who isn’t them is a “mouth breathing faceroller who is lazy and wants free loot for pressing 1”.

Anet needs to create a Guild Souls 2 mode for them which is extremely punishing and can’t be cheesed. That last one is super important because every time I see hardmode content, it’s abused and cheesed to be faster and easier by people who scream “I want a challenge!”.

But seriously, this game is always going to be middle ground between extreme casuals and hardcores and that’s what most of it should be. The players in the gray area are the most numerous and we don’t want easy 2 win content but we don’t want rip your guts out Nintendo Hard either. PS right now isn’t challenging and I’ll agree.. the Wyvern event and chain was fantastic! This is what I want more of!

I remember the days of the older mmos…..with their mindless grinding, and difficult, time consuming missions, absurd death penalties, and such, that only the really hardcore could enjoy and reap the real benefits of such difficult content. Casuals used to holler and yell on forums for games that weren’t such vast and ridiculous time sinks.

It is fun to see that the tables have finally turned….and hard cores are now the ‘niche’ crowd, and casuals are the ones being catered to by some games. While I feel that some of the content is too easy and could be ramped up slightly……(I think HoT will do some in that area)…..it is good to see the shoe on the other foot, and I chuckle at the hard cores now having to deal with games that are now catering to the larger, and therefore, more $$$$$ casual crowd that have lives outside of mmos.

Funny thing is, there are still plenty of games out there that do still cater to the hard cores.(Eve Online comes to mind) Personally, I love seeing GW2 as a truly casual game, even if some of the content may be a bit too easy for vets.

@Teon and Aerlen, had you at least took the time to understan what this thread is about?

Because as I Previsouly stated, I did not even make any mention to Hardcore content here. The On_topic discussion is abobut how poor is the levelling experience and the personal history, that got transformed into a very easy-mode, with absolute 0 engagement, or challenge.

This not “Casual” (I am a casual mostly), this is just way too easy.

Yea, I understand your comment about PS. I was responding more to the comments about hardcore/casual in this thread. I agree that the PS is too easy, but I feel that comes more from age and familiarity with the PS. With the new trait system, the PS has become a bit outdated……the npcs could be harder. But I still find that the additional chapters of the longer life story(or whatever they call those added 8 chapters) is somewhat difficult at times.

I am hoping HoT will fix some of the super easy nature of the game. Although I don’t know if that will happen. Some of the older mmos I used to play….the more original content of the game(initial leveling and such) just stayed in place as the higher parts of the game advanced and added interesting and tougher higher end content. When I would go back to those portions of the game with a new character, for instance…..those older sections of the game were far too easy and mind numbing…..due mainly to my familiarity and advances in class abilities and such.

There might not be any way around that for GW2. /shrug

Ah, sorry then. This trhead got so controversy that I don’t know anymore what who is talking about what ^^

MauricioCezar.2673:

Ah, sorry then. This trhead got so controversy that I don’t know anymore what who is talking about what ^^

Yea, that happens here a lot….lol.

You’ve got a good point on the ease of the original PS and such. But, as I said…..I have seen that before with older mmos. Older sections of the game get neglected as new sections and updates demand most of the extensive dev work.

Anet may not have the time and/or resources to change the older parts of the game. I imagine that HoT and the newer patches are their highest priority.

The older sections of the game become way too easy, due mainly to familiarity, advances in classes due to newer patches, etc. It might just require too much work to update those older sections of the story.

One idea I have seen on that, and it does work, to an extent……is you go though the older PS and earlier parts of the game with an entirely strange build…..no meta…..just some odd build that makes you have to work harder. I used to do that with older mmos, and it made the older sections of the game a lot more fun/challenging.

The fact that the OP needs to keep reiterating what his post is actually about speaks volumes about how the MMO community as a whole is used to hearing the same arguments and stances over and over and over…..

It’s not hardcore vs. causal… (those are largely time commitments honestly).
What I’m getting (and I guess @Teon now too), is the game LARGELY lacks any difficult content – casual or Hardcore aside.

My favourite content addition in the game to date was the launch of the Original Aetherblade dungeon in season one. Dat kitten was CHALLENGING. And it caused such an uproar because ppl didn’t like the fact that they had to TRY. The dungeon wasn’t a matter of how much time should be expected to put into it, but instead how much effort or skill you had. And as time went on, runs became faster and easier as more ppl LEARNED and got BETTER. For a game where it shows up so much in pvp, pve does very little to test skill.

It was hard and I died a lot. But it felt AWESOME when you beat it.
GW2 needs more of that is what I think OP is saying

My main concern is that Anet’s idea of “more difficult” seems to be 200% health, which is frankly just a more boring version of what we have now. I could get behind a really good PvE damage balance pass though. Maybe a moderate damage boost, some more use of boons and conditions by the AI, maybe speed up some of those ludicrous telegraphed power moves and increase their damage enough that not paying attention and using dodge has real consequences, especially for epic boss moments in the personal story.

If they got the difficulty right and they finally got downscaling right(ie by pieces of equipment so it doesn’t bugger leveling characters) then I think it would feel like an awesome game with a slightly campy plot. I think the awfulness of the story is really exaggerated by how easy it is.

Kormeg.2469:

The fact that the OP needs to keep reiterating what his post is actually about speaks volumes about how the MMO community as a whole is used to hearing the same arguments and stances over and over and over…..

It’s not hardcore vs. causal… (those are largely time commitments honestly).
What I’m getting (and I guess @Teon now too), is the game LARGELY lacks any difficult content – casual or Hardcore aside.

My favourite content addition in the game to date was the launch of the Original Aetherblade dungeon in season one. Dat kitten was CHALLENGING. And it caused such an uproar because ppl didn’t like the fact that they had to TRY. The dungeon wasn’t a matter of how much time should be expected to put into it, but instead how much effort or skill you had. And as time went on, runs became faster and easier as more ppl LEARNED and got BETTER. For a game where it shows up so much in pvp, pve does very little to test skill.

It was hard and I died a lot. But it felt AWESOME when you beat it.
GW2 needs more of that is what I think OP is saying

And maybe we’ll get something like that with HoT. The last few weeks, I have been taking a break from the game(except dailies), and it is mainly due to lack of interest/challenging content.

I certainly do understand the OP’s point……just got caught up in the hardcore/casual argument that was going on.

I would hope people can at least agree on one thing, there are far more casual players than there are hardcore or even semi-hardcore players. Reason being is because the casuals are pretty much infinite, they come and go, and will come back. I would hope this isn’t even debatable. Now if Anet wanted to maximize their profit, it would be in their best interest to cater to the larger group.

With that said, I don’t really see why they can’t add instanced harder content in the game, like instanced “world” bosses that provide a far greater challenge. The rewards though would have to be the same as regular, because remember, were talking about challenge, not rewards here.

imsoenthused.1634:

My main concern is that Anet’s idea of “more difficult” seems to be 200% health, which is frankly just a more boring version of what we have now.

Right? Just because it takes long doesn’t mean it’s a ‘hard’ fight. I think the idea they have of their player base it that everyone deserves to be rewarded if they spend X amount of time playing, instead of being rewarded based on merit or accomplishments.

Kormeg.2469:

imsoenthused.1634:

My main concern is that Anet’s idea of “more difficult” seems to be 200% health, which is frankly just a more boring version of what we have now.

Right? Just because it takes long doesn’t mean it’s a ‘hard’ fight. I think the idea they have of their player base it that everyone deserves to be rewarded if they spend X amount of time playing, instead of being rewarded based on merit or accomplishments.

The problem with that, though, is if that happened in game, it would reopen kill stealing, camping, bad attitudes, etc., that are inherent in older mmos. Despite some weaknesses with the idea, I really like GW2’s way of how people are rewarded with fights and such……doesn’t hurt anyone’s rewards, and doesn’t let kill stealing and such creep into the game.

I mean, how would you reward people based purely on merit and/or accomplishments, without some of those older mmo problems reappearing in this game?

Or are you talking more about there being better rewards for players that have got certain titles, ap accomplishments, wvw stuff, pvp, etc?

some dungeons take 3+ hours to finish, i would think that is a better reward for a hardcore player than a casual.

Teon.5168:

I mean, how would you reward people based on merit and/or accomplishments, without some of those older mmo problems reappearing in this game?

Smaller instanced content, relative to the rest of the game. Let them be like dungeons, but maybe smaller/shorter and focus on higher skill/effort play. An example I guess could be Trials from FFXIV, those are essentially instanced fights where it’s just a boss involved in a heavily mechanical fight requiring group cooperation.

It doesn’t have to the main focus of the game. They certainly aren’t even in FFXIV, but they are an option for people looking for some challenge where you don’t have to take 1-2 hours to get to the good part, where it’s just a dps race anyway. Just content where effort is necessary rather than time availability.

In hindsight, I feel that the Personal Story missed it’s mark. Not on the challenge of completing it but, on the content itself. Maybe the Personal Story should have been designed to be more of a cinematic experience? That the content should have incorporated and given more knowledge about combat itself, leveling, traits (now specializations), crafting and gathering, etc. Learning about the game would help make it interesting.

Kormeg.2469:

Teon.5168:

I mean, how would you reward people based on merit and/or accomplishments, without some of those older mmo problems reappearing in this game?

Smaller proportioned instanced content. Let them be like dungeons, but maybe smaller/shorter and focus on higher skill/effort play. An example I guess could be Trials from FFXIV, those are essentially instanced fights where it’s just a boss involved in a heavily mechanical fight requiring group cooperation.

It doesn’t have to the main focus of the game. They certainly aren’t even in FFXIV, but they are an option for people looking to some relatively quick, effort necessary encounters.

I haven’t gone back to look at the info but I think the Adventures (I’m sure that’s what they’re called) that will be introduced in HoT will be similar to this.

Edit: no, I went back and had a look. Now I don’t think it’ll be like that at all. But they may come close.

Personally, I think LS Season 2 added plenty of challenging instances and achievements to the game, something I’m sure will continue.

MauricioCezar.2673:

@Teon and Aerlen, had you at least took the time to understan what this thread is about?

Because as I Previsouly stated, I did not even make any mention to Hardcore content here. The On_topic discussion is abobut how poor is the levelling experience and the personal history, that got transformed into a very easy-mode, with absolute 0 engagement, or challenge.

This not “Casual” (I am a casual mostly), this is just way too easy.

On the contrary, the links in your OP talk about the lack of hard core content and that the game has become to easy. The only reason the devs would make it easier is to attract players who aren’t hard core, aka casual.

Of course there are loads of definitions for what is a casual player ranging from only devoting a few hours or less a week playing; to those not desiring a frustrating experience when playing a game that is meant to be relaxing; to the first time MMO player.

With the player who can’t play frequently, they don’t have the time to figure out how to beat challenging content with their character; the second simply don’t want the aggravation and the third is simply awestruck and is a newb for such an activity.

The question for ANet is which group is smaller to PO, the hard core or the not hard core and I hate to say, how much each group spend buying gems. Instanced play could get a difficulty slider but open world events will always be difficult to be satisfactory, ie Teq.

Sometimes you’ll be in the one tough fight in a dungeon or something, and your party/allies will be struggling or down and you are forced to actually use the tools the game gives you to their fullest. You rely on every trait/skill interaction, every sigil proc, every combo field and finisher, every enemy tell, squeezing every last drop from your characters potential and your skill to prevail.

Those are bittersweet moments. They show me what this game can be; what it could be.

I’m guessing everyone who is saying game is easy is cakewalking level 50 fractals. ANet have said in the past that they will unlock higher levels. Or could it be that after close to 3 years, you can play the classes you play well? If you want to be challenged, go play some sPvP. Sure some matches you will walk them. Most you will be screaming at your monitor. The other night I was on the losing team for ten games in a row. Now if pve os your bag, you can always make things harder for your self by using white gear. It’s not ANet’s fault you are good at playing there game. And that’s the thing with an MMO, you have to make them to everyone can play them so you get the biggest group of people playing it. It is impossible to keep everyone happy.

BrotherBelial.3094:

I’m guessing everyone who is saying game is easy is cakewalking level 50 fractals. ANet have said in the past that they will unlock higher levels. Or could it be that after close to 3 years, you can play the classes you play well? If you want to be challenged, go play some sPvP. Sure some matches you will walk them. Most you will be screaming at your monitor. The other night I was on the losing team for ten games in a row. Now if pve os your bag, you can always make things harder for your self by using white gear. It’s not ANet’s fault you are good at playing there game. And that’s the thing with an MMO, you have to make them to everyone can play them so you get the biggest group of people playing it. It is impossible to keep everyone happy.

Unless you are trying personal history, with a lv 20 character, totally equipped with white armor/weapons, and still can beat the content offered autoattacking.

1..1…1…1..11…1..1.1.1…..1….1….1.

(Hope I’ve been clear on what I am talking about now, and if you doubt on what I am talking about , check out WP video).

Not sure if this has already been addressed (only so many ragey forum posts I can read before my eyes cross), but all indications is that difficulty will go up, not down, with HoT.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Wuselknusel.4082:

I’m not ok with the game getting more casualized, but ANet wont change their mind on this one.

They will have to someday. Casuals come and go very fast and their supply is not infinite.

You’d be surprised. The content locust is all hardcore players, not casuals. And casuals can be very dedicated and loyal to the only game around that supports their gaming style.

Go back to wow, then. Enjoy the phone app game play where you log in, click some buttons in your garrison, log off, and then go play other things until the daily reset. I guess you can ‘raid’ but that is just an endlessly infinite treadmill that never ever stops; if you take a break, you will get left so far behind no one will want to play with you. Then there is the community….it’s so toxic it’s absurb.

W/e. I guess some think that’s awesome but after 10 years I really think it’s just…pointless especially since you have to pay 15 a month for that. No ty, I am done with wow forever.

Anyways, ya gw2 needs some higher difficulty stuff but it still needs content casuals/less than hardcores can enjoy. Wildstar of recent went for you ‘hardcores’ in it’s game design and look how well that went! So well, it’s going f2p and GW2 people will be paying for that mistake with the HoT price lol. Careful what you wish for imo.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Wuselknusel.4082:

I’m not ok with the game getting more casualized, but ANet wont change their mind on this one.

They will have to someday. Casuals come and go very fast and their supply is not infinite.

Casuals don’t come and go very fast. I’m casual and I’m here since launch. Most of my guild is casual. You’re assuming casual doesn’t necessarily mean dedicated. But hard core gamers often game hop, more than casuals do, because casuals don’t necessary want to buy/learn a bunch of different games.

I tend to buy one game and stay with it, until there’s nothing left to do in it. But I play casually and don’t really care about difficult content.

For every player that wants difficult content or challenges, there’s another 100 that want to just play casually(and of those 100, probably 50% will be dedicated casual players)…which market would you go after?

fixit.7189:

Anyways, ya gw2 needs some higher difficulty stuff but it still needs content casuals/less than hardcores can enjoy. Wildstar of recent went for you ‘hardcores’ in it’s game design and look how well that went! So well, it’s going f2p and GW2 people will be paying for that mistake with the HoT price lol. Careful what you wish for imo.

Wildstar was unappealing to “hardcore” players as well, it had ridiculous time consuming mechanics and seemed really clunky at launch (well, that´s what you get when trusting NCSoft after the CoH debacel and GW2 yet another time).

But in essence you are right. Games mirror society. Achievement, the thrill of finally overcoming a challenging obstacle, self improvement, all these things are shunned by a rapidly degenerating western society. Games have to be like bad soap operas now, an endless stream of mindnumbing “entertainment” that does not challenge anyone´s mind. Casual players will never explore anything but shallow emotions in games, no “yes!” moment, just a continuum of mediocre sensations, not very different from the day in the office (which always makes me chuckle when casual players complain “but I want to relax after work!”).

That is lamentable, but it is the way things are now. A game publisher would be mad to invest millions and millions of dollars into a game that does not fit that mold.

Zaklex.6308:

For every player that wants difficult content or challenges, there’s another 100 that want to just play casually(and of those 100, probably 50% will be dedicated casual players)…which market would you go after?

You are confusing casuals with people of low intelligence. It’s possible for someone to approach a game with a casual mindset but still wanting to be challenged.

Plus, to me it seems people in here aren’t asking for the game to be made from ‘medium’ to ‘hard’ but much rather from what would qualify in most games as ‘easier than easy’ to ‘somewhat medium in difficulty’.
Tha game has so many awesome mechanics. It’s a shame they are almost never needed.

Crovax.7854:

Zaklex.6308:

For every player that wants difficult content or challenges, there’s another 100 that want to just play casually(and of those 100, probably 50% will be dedicated casual players)…which market would you go after?

You are confusing casuals with people of low intelligence. It’s possible for someone to approach a game with a casual mindset but still wanting to be challenged.

Plus, to me it seems people in here aren’t asking for the game to be made from ‘medium’ to ‘hard’ but much rather from what would qualify in most games as ‘easier than easy’ to ‘somewhat medium in difficulty’.
Tha game has so many awesome mechanics. It’s a shame they are almost never needed.

In SAB terms we (I suppose most of those requesting for challenge) want to be able to get a normal mode instead of being locked into infantile. (A small amount of tribulation wouldn’t be bad though.)

Kormeg.2469:

^Pretty much.

If you look at the comments in this thread there are WAY too many people that attribute a challenge with being some kind of hardcore gamer lifestyle where you spend hours everyday doing encounters.

No, ppl would just like more content that is even moderately difficult. We’ve had a staunch lack of that for a very long time.

Mysticjedi.6053:

I wouldn’t have even considered this game if it was a hardcore game. I like being able to take breaks and not feel like I’m missing out. The causalness of the game is what keeps me logging in and is what hooked my wife and many of my friends on the game.

It is fun to go to a world where you can play with friends and do events and not feel like you’re losing out because you like doing world events and not raiding for specific gear.

This is the entire reason I bought this game. I didn’t want to play another “HARDCORE” MMO that punishes players for not sinking every waking moment of their gameplay time into it. I -LOVE- being able to pick up and play Gw2 for 1-2 hours, or for a 6 hour stretch. It’s got just enough challenge to make it feel like you’re doing something in combat, while not making you feel like every single fight is a grinding bore.

If you want to see the game be difficult, play sPvP. That’s where the challenge is, and if you’re not willing or not good at sPvP, then you really don’t have a place to complain about the lack of challenge.

I, for one, think think that the casual friendly gameplay is what makes this game the great game that it is. My niece whom usually HATES these kinds of grindy MMO style games is already considering buying it because of how user friendly it seems, and is.

If the developer wanted to shoehorn in some high-brow challenging content, then fine, let them. But give that “challenging” content a few weeks, and people will be complaining that it’s “Broken” or “too hard” or “Unfair” or “Punishing” or “Too easy” because they’ve learned it’s patterns and how to best deal with it.

It’s the nature of pve to get easier the more you play it. Even if the levelling process was ‘difficult’, any time after the first will not be difficult because you already know how to do it.

It’s like the difference between deriving an equation and using it. Most important equations were derived over countless hours of difficult and tedious work by brilliant innovators, but the result is something so easy to use that even someone completely unfamiliar with the subject could get the right answer.

Zaklex.6308:

For every player that wants difficult content or challenges, there’s another 100 that want to just play casually(and of those 100, probably 50% will be dedicated casual players)…which market would you go after?

i would like to see your metrics and statistics please.

if there werent enough players who want difficult content and challenges, anet wouldnt have announced it for the expansion.
so obviously you are wrong.

Apparently asking for the game to have some difficult portions to it is too much to ask for, and that if you want that then kitten you. this is Easy Wars2.

How the hell is telling ppl to go pvp a solution to pve being too easy? Really?

I absolutely hate it when ppl dismiss others concerns as unimportant and not worth mentioning, while spewing their own.

Brian Ponder.9017:

This is the entire reason I bought this game. I didn’t want to play another “HARDCORE” MMO that punishes players for not sinking every waking moment of their gameplay time into it. I -LOVE- being able to pick up and play Gw2 for 1-2 hours, or for a 6 hour stretch. It’s got just enough challenge to make it feel like you’re doing something in combat, while not making you feel like every single fight is a grinding bore.

if there is no better gear involved, you wont be forced to play the content. you can keep doing the same zerg content for another 3 years. nobody will tell you to stop or to do something else. so why are you complaining at all?

Brian Ponder.9017:

If you want to see the game be difficult, play sPvP. That’s where the challenge is, and if you’re not willing or not good at sPvP, then you really don’t have a place to complain about the lack of challenge.

you dont have any right to tell someone “you really dont have a place to complain about the lack of challenge” when they have paid money for the game just as you.
stop being such an egoistic entitled brick.

you enjoy zerg content? im fine with that.
i enjoy challenging content. you are not fine with that.

do you realize the problem here?
people like you are the reason why this game is so faceroll easy and why we cant have nice things in this game.
in my opinion there should be content for everyone.
you however, you only care about yourself. and that kind of behavior and attitude is simply disgusting.

there are people who would love to see and play content that doesnt feel like losing brain cells every minute you spend playing the content.

The thing is; how do you define “challenging”?

For me personally its having to use my wits and tools at hand to accomplish my goals, be it pve or pvp. Pve is less challenging because you can exploit the AI, but that’s fine by me, because it still has some challenge.

Pvp is the true challenging content for me because you have to outwit people in higher levels of play, play against the players, not just the build/profession. It’s dynamic, crazy things happen: be it stomps or comebacks.

My issue with people wanting harder pve content isn’t asking for things that make for better content overall, like better monster AI, and things that punish stacking. Instead its this bizarre need to throw back to all the old K&J grinders most people gleefully left to come play gw2. Wasting time with damage sponge monsters that require you to memorize rotations isn’t fun, that’s drudgery. Same with instant kill bosses. I’m all for more encounters that are more dynamic and take advantage of the combat system this game provides; the molten alliance twin boss for example are pretty enjoyable.

The thing people have yet to learn is there is no challenge in wasting time.
Those old MMORPGs you played? all arbitrary difficulty.

Why not make a Hard Mode like in GW1?

Redesign all of the dungeons and make them challenging (as in REALLY challenging with new mechanics and not just double HP). As for rewards, maybe double tokens (or special tokens), double drop/loot, more gold, more APs, possibility of ascended gear loot, etc.

That way, casual gamers won’t be missing out a lot, they’ll just make slower money than a hardcore gamer. And they will also have the choice to try and challenge the HM without being “forced” to play it as the rewards would be the same in the end (only the quantity changes).

Why pick between casual or hardcore when we can do both?

In my opinion, instances are the best way to introduce a hard mode and challenging group content.

Numot.3965:

The thing is; how do you define “challenging”?

For me personally its having to use my wits and tools at hand to accomplish my goals, be it pve or pvp. Pve is less challenging because you can exploit the AI, but that’s fine by me, because it still has some challenge.

Pvp is the true challenging content for me because you have to outwit people in higher levels of play, play against the players, not just the build/profession. It’s dynamic, crazy things happen: be it stomps or comebacks.

My issue with people wanting harder pve content isn’t asking for things that make for better content overall, like better monster AI, and things that punish stacking. Instead its this bizarre need to throw back to all the old K&J grinders most people gleefully left to come play gw2. Wasting time with damage sponge monsters that require you to memorize rotations isn’t fun, that’s drudgery. Same with instant kill bosses. I’m all for more encounters that are more dynamic and take advantage of the combat system this game provides; the molten alliance twin boss for example are pretty enjoyable.

The thing people have yet to learn is there is no challenge in wasting time.
Those old MMORPGs you played? all arbitrary difficulty.

this is what challenging means to me. and it wouldnt be too hard to make stuff like that for gw2.

NoTrigger.8396:

Numot.3965:

The thing is; how do you define “challenging”?

For me personally its having to use my wits and tools at hand to accomplish my goals, be it pve or pvp. Pve is less challenging because you can exploit the AI, but that’s fine by me, because it still has some challenge.

Pvp is the true challenging content for me because you have to outwit people in higher levels of play, play against the players, not just the build/profession. It’s dynamic, crazy things happen: be it stomps or comebacks.

My issue with people wanting harder pve content isn’t asking for things that make for better content overall, like better monster AI, and things that punish stacking. Instead its this bizarre need to throw back to all the old K&J grinders most people gleefully left to come play gw2. Wasting time with damage sponge monsters that require you to memorize rotations isn’t fun, that’s drudgery. Same with instant kill bosses. I’m all for more encounters that are more dynamic and take advantage of the combat system this game provides; the molten alliance twin boss for example are pretty enjoyable.

The thing people have yet to learn is there is no challenge in wasting time.
Those old MMORPGs you played? all arbitrary difficulty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZtGShP_lP0

this is what challenging means to me. and it wouldnt be too hard to make stuff like that for gw2.

“video is private”