Guild Wars 2

People each have an opinion, each is of equal value, one opinion.

As a casual I have played a few hrs, at the 1000 day point I missed an 8 hr a day average by almost 10 mins a day. I have casually made my way to around 60K player kills in WvW where I mostly solo camps and yaks etc but I do have the odd casual fight, I even win a few.

I know the true hardcore players have much more than my meager 22500 odd ap but still my casual opinion is valid to me.

The definition of casual or hardcore is in the eye of the beholder.

While I do not agree with everything being done, most of the hard core games I have played online since 1997 have dwindled to a few hundred K subscribers/players.

GW2 is likely heading in the same direction as the market. I prefer populated games and am capable of dealing with a variety of difficulties.

Varezenem.2813:

“video is private”

should work now

Hari.9230:

Why not make a Hard Mode like in GW1?

I would say the biggest impact of hard mode in GW1 was that the mobs were higher level, had more HP on top of the HP they get for being higher level, did more damage for being higher level, attacked faster which results in more damage and makes them more difficult to interrupt. They also gain some additional skills. There are other stuff as well but they do not matter as much without these more HP and damage modifiers. More HP and damage aren’t particularly interesting.

Redesign all of the dungeons and make them challenging (as in REALLY challenging with new mechanics and not just double HP). As for rewards, maybe double tokens (or special tokens), double drop/loot, more gold, more APs, possibility of ascended gear loot, etc.

That way, casual gamers won’t be missing out a lot, they’ll just make slower money than a hardcore gamer. And they will also have the choice to try and challenge the HM without being “forced” to play it as the rewards would be the same in the end (only the quantity changes).

Why pick between casual or hardcore when we can do both?

You can’t have both because there is a limited amount of resources for developing content. As a business the aim would be to reach as many people as possible for the resources used.

NoTrigger.8396:

Zaklex.6308:

For every player that wants difficult content or challenges, there’s another 100 that want to just play casually(and of those 100, probably 50% will be dedicated casual players)…which market would you go after?

i would like to see your metrics and statistics please.

if there werent enough players who want difficult content and challenges, anet wouldnt have announced it for the expansion.
so obviously you are wrong.

While I agree more challenging content is needed, the logic on which you base your conclusion is wrong. Adding something to an expansion as one feature of many, means some people want it. It doesn’t mean that most want it. THey’re trying to fill gaps. But the reason for the gap is that they didn’t consider it that important in the first place…for a reason I suspect.

Hari.9230:

Why not make a Hard Mode like in GW1?

Redesign all of the dungeons and make them challenging (as in REALLY challenging with new mechanics and not just double HP). As for rewards, maybe double tokens (or special tokens), double drop/loot, more gold, more APs, possibility of ascended gear loot, etc.

That way, casual gamers won’t be missing out a lot, they’ll just make slower money than a hardcore gamer. And they will also have the choice to try and challenge the HM without being “forced” to play it as the rewards would be the same in the end (only the quantity changes).

Why pick between casual or hardcore when we can do both?

In my opinion, instances are the best way to introduce a hard mode and challenging group content.

i have been leaving the game over 2 years
and recently came back
i say dont feel it is easy at all
just today, my pub-team got wipe over and over in CM explorer mode
it take us about an hour, dying more than 6 times to fully complete 1 path
and CM is just an low level dungeon
on the other hand, i have more success at FFXIV endgame dungeon
i mean in GW2, i dont found “tank” “heal” DPS" role, unlike traditional MMO you just do your role and dodge the boss attack

so back to the topic
i think personal story is not about challenge, but more for player to understand the lore, the world, and get immerse to the world
even traditional MMO are like that, FFXIV, SWTOR, main quest are so much easier, compare to endgame content
and i dont found personal story just AA or 1-1-1-1, at least not for my engineer, i need to dodge, i need to stack boom, i need to remove condition, if i just spam 1, i wont even survive the three Order personal story

i do not object adding hard-mode dungeon, but it must be treated carefully, not to become endless gear grinding
for example FFXIV, there are newer, better, higher rating top gear every single patch, to get those gear, you have to do the same top level dungeon everyday, and because the increasing difficult of new dungeons, there are gear check, you need a fix group of players, and if you miss a week, you are falling behind, new players are not able to get any of those running lower level dungeon.
GW2 shouldnt turn into such, i think the reward of hard-mode should be also accessible by normal-mode, so hard-mode could give more token, more gold, nothing unique
vet player can run hard-mode till they feel bored and ask for more, while more causal player wont feel falling behind

Vayne.8563:

NoTrigger.8396:

Zaklex.6308:

For every player that wants difficult content or challenges, there’s another 100 that want to just play casually(and of those 100, probably 50% will be dedicated casual players)…which market would you go after?

i would like to see your metrics and statistics please.

if there werent enough players who want difficult content and challenges, anet wouldnt have announced it for the expansion.
so obviously you are wrong.

While I agree more challenging content is needed, the logic on which you base your conclusion is wrong. Adding something to an expansion as one feature of many, means some people want it. It doesn’t mean that most want it. THey’re trying to fill gaps. But the reason for the gap is that they didn’t consider it that important in the first place…for a reason I suspect.

if it wasnt important and if not enough people asked for it, they wouldnt be doing it. its simple.
the devs even said in multiple interviews that many people said there isnt enough challenging content and asked for it.

also the reason that this “gap” exists is simple. at launch anet believed the dungeon would be extremely challenging. they were wrong. they even admitted, that the instanced PvE content in this game is too easy in the raid cdi.

you can try to find excuses and keep your eyes closed. thats ok. fact is, if there wasnt enough interest in that type of content, anet wouldnt have announced it.

I’m okay with this.

NoTrigger.8396:

Vayne.8563:

NoTrigger.8396:

Zaklex.6308:

For every player that wants difficult content or challenges, there’s another 100 that want to just play casually(and of those 100, probably 50% will be dedicated casual players)…which market would you go after?

i would like to see your metrics and statistics please.

if there werent enough players who want difficult content and challenges, anet wouldnt have announced it for the expansion.
so obviously you are wrong.

While I agree more challenging content is needed, the logic on which you base your conclusion is wrong. Adding something to an expansion as one feature of many, means some people want it. It doesn’t mean that most want it. THey’re trying to fill gaps. But the reason for the gap is that they didn’t consider it that important in the first place…for a reason I suspect.

if it wasnt important and if not enough people asked for it, they wouldnt be doing it. its simple.
the devs even said in multiple interviews that many people said there isnt enough challenging content and asked for it.

also the reason that this “gap” exists is simple. at launch anet believed the dungeon would be extremely challenging. they were wrong. they even admitted, that the instanced PvE content in this game is too easy in the raid cdi.

you can try to find excuses and keep your eyes closed. thats ok. fact is, if there wasnt enough interest in that type of content, anet wouldnt have announced it.

I’m not keeping my eyes closed. But you might be.

Talk to any dev of any game, and you’ll find out that the casual player makes up most of the playerbase. It’s why games keep getting dumbed down. This is a problem with pretty much every MMO. The longer it goes, the more dumbed down they get. And I’m pretty sure it’s not because the bulk of the playerbase is asking for harder content. However, the loudest portion of the playerbase is, and that’s why it behooves a company to do it.

The most recent comment I’ve seen on it is from a Lotro dev who said, in response to a big outcry that they wouldn’t be making more raids, that only 10% of the population of Lotro raids or EVER raided. 10%. That same dev said that 10% accounted for about 50% of the forum comments.

So it makes sense to include it. It doesn’t mean you have some sort of majority.

Back in the day, the lead WoW dev (forget his name offhand), said that only 5% of the population of WoW completed the hardest content.

You may believe that you’re in some sort of majority because the forum viewers are largely in favor (though not completely) of more challenging content.

But since only about 15% of a game’s population ever posts to the forums, you have a decent percentage of 15% or so…which is hardly conclusive.

And even in this thread, you see a lot of people telling you otherwise. It’s not as cut and tried as you think.

there is a difference between casual players (who simply cant invest a lot of time) and players who are lazy and refuse to get better and want everything for free. for the most part its the second group of players who doesnt want any challenging content. just saying.

and i dont think im part of the majority. i dont want to be part of the majority, i have some self respect. but if there werent enough people who ask for more challenging content to justify it, anet wouldnt be doing it.

and another thing is that many people believe raids or challenging content automatically means gear grind. that doesnt have to be the case and wont be the case in gw2. if these people understood that they wouldnt be complaining at all.

thats pretty much all i have to say.

NoTrigger.8396:

there is a difference between casual players (who simply cant invest a lot of time) and players who are lazy and refuse to get better and want everything for free. for the most part its the second group of players who doesnt want any challenging content. just saying.

and i dont think im part of the majority. i dont want to be part of the majority. but if there werent enough people who ask for more challenging content to justify it, anet wouldnt be doing it. thats all i have to say.

Ah, how casually we throw around words like lazy, or refuse to get better. What is this, the olympics? Should we all be in training?

Contrary to the belief of some people, some people play the game JUST to have fun. Not to get better. Not to play a meta build. Not to learn how to do things better.

Sometimes those people are working hard all day and just want to relax. That makes them somehow lazy. Some people play games to unwind or relax. Some people play games to be competitive.

I’ve spent my whole life being competitive. I don’t need a game to prove something. I think you need to stop judging people who play differently than you do.

Vayne.8563:

Contrary to the belief of some people, some people play the game JUST to have fun. Not to get better. Not to play a meta build. Not to learn how to do things better.

implying that trying to become as good as possible cant be fun. kek

Vayne.8563:

Sometimes those people are working hard all day and just want to relax. That makes them somehow lazy. Some people play games to unwind or relax.

just fyi, the people you are describing here are people who dont care at all and wouldnt be affected by challenging group content at all. because again, nobody will ever force you to play the challenging group content and to this day nobody has delivered a legit point against optional (i hope you understand what that means) content.

and the only points you see over and over again are:
1) gear grind → wont happen in gw2
2) some sentences that hide the simple fact that people think they arent good enough to acquire the rewards of challenging group content.

I agree with you OP but unfortunately you won’t get a lot of supporters here. This new generation of “gamers” doesn’t want an harder game.
I hope Anet makes the game even easier so maybe even they will get bored.
I respect you for trying though.

NoTrigger.8396:

Vayne.8563:

Contrary to the belief of some people, some people play the game JUST to have fun. Not to get better. Not to play a meta build. Not to learn how to do things better.

implying that trying to become as good as possible cant be fun. kek

just fyi, the people you are describing here are people who dont care at all.

That’s incorrect. You can want to play around and still care, but care about different stuff.

If you care about say, making your character look the way you want it to look, or about role-playing, or about exploring the whole map and nothing else, it’s not that you don’t care. It’s like this guy doesn’t care about what I care about, so this guy doesn’t care.

I’ve done everything in this game except Liadri. I’ve done every dungeon. I’ve done fractals up to level 34 (my personal reward level is 27). I’ve done SPvP. I’ve done WvW.

There’s no difficult content in this game that I particularly enjoy. I can do it. I HAVE done it. I’m not lazy. I’m not interested in what you’re interested in. That doesn’t mean I don’t care. It just means that’s not my thing.

Instead of trying to deride people who think differently from you, you should just accept it. After all, I’m not saying anything bad about you for wanting challenging content.

Vayne.8563:

There’s no difficult content in this game that I particularly enjoy. I can do it. I HAVE done it. I’m not lazy. I’m not interested in what you’re interested in. That doesn’t mean I don’t care. It just means that’s not my thing.

ok its not your thing and thats completely fine. no problem with that.
but why are people like you against something that wouldnt affect them at all?!

im not interested in the stuff that you enjoy, but do you see me on forums saying that i am against content for players like you? no.
why? im not interested in it, it doesnt affect me, so i dont care. simple isnt it?

NoTrigger.8396:

Vayne.8563:

There’s no difficult content in this game that I particularly enjoy. I can do it. I HAVE done it. I’m not lazy. I’m not interested in what you’re interested in. That doesn’t mean I don’t care. It just means that’s not my thing.

ok its not your thing and thats completely fine. no problem with that.
but why are people like you against something that wouldnt affect them at all?!

im not interested in the stuff that you enjoy, but do you see me on forums saying that i am against content for players like you? no.

Did you see the part where I said I agree we need more challenging content? Because I said it, in the first post you replied to me with.

I’m not against more challenging content being added to the game. I just think that most of the challenging content tends to get ignored. It always has in this game.

People ran CoF path 1 over and over again, not CoF path 3, which is definitely harder.

Vayne.8563:

NoTrigger.8396:

Vayne.8563:

There’s no difficult content in this game that I particularly enjoy. I can do it. I HAVE done it. I’m not lazy. I’m not interested in what you’re interested in. That doesn’t mean I don’t care. It just means that’s not my thing.

ok its not your thing and thats completely fine. no problem with that.
but why are people like you against something that wouldnt affect them at all?!

im not interested in the stuff that you enjoy, but do you see me on forums saying that i am against content for players like you? no.

Did you see the part where I said I agree we need more challenging content? Because I said it, in the first post you replied to me with.

I’m not against more challenging content being added to the game. I just think that most of the challenging content tends to get ignored. It always has in this game.

People ran CoF path 1 over and over again, not CoF path 3, which is definitely harder.

once a carbine dev said something like “players will always do the most efficient thing, its the developers job to make sure challenging content is fun and rewarding at the same time”.

NoTrigger.8396:

Vayne.8563:

NoTrigger.8396:

Vayne.8563:

There’s no difficult content in this game that I particularly enjoy. I can do it. I HAVE done it. I’m not lazy. I’m not interested in what you’re interested in. That doesn’t mean I don’t care. It just means that’s not my thing.

ok its not your thing and thats completely fine. no problem with that.
but why are people like you against something that wouldnt affect them at all?!

im not interested in the stuff that you enjoy, but do you see me on forums saying that i am against content for players like you? no.

Did you see the part where I said I agree we need more challenging content? Because I said it, in the first post you replied to me with.

I’m not against more challenging content being added to the game. I just think that most of the challenging content tends to get ignored. It always has in this game.

People ran CoF path 1 over and over again, not CoF path 3, which is definitely harder.

once a carbine dev said something like “players will always do the most efficient thing, its the developers job to make sure challenging content is fun and rewarding at the same time”.

That’s true, of course. However, I think there’s a percentage of people who work opposite to that. You make something challenging and give it a great reward and people will do stuff they don’t find fun in order to get that reward. I’ve done it, myself. Played content I didn’t enjoy to get something out of it.

So making that content rewarding enough to force people to do it, if there’s enough of it, could drive people from the game.

Vayne.8563:

NoTrigger.8396:

Vayne.8563:

There’s no difficult content in this game that I particularly enjoy. I can do it. I HAVE done it. I’m not lazy. I’m not interested in what you’re interested in. That doesn’t mean I don’t care. It just means that’s not my thing.

ok its not your thing and thats completely fine. no problem with that.
but why are people like you against something that wouldnt affect them at all?!

im not interested in the stuff that you enjoy, but do you see me on forums saying that i am against content for players like you? no.

Did you see the part where I said I agree we need more challenging content? Because I said it, in the first post you replied to me with.

I’m not against more challenging content being added to the game. I just think that most of the challenging content tends to get ignored. It always has in this game.

People ran CoF path 1 over and over again, not CoF path 3, which is definitely harder.

Since we are talking about CoF how soloable is CoF story mode (and explorable) is it like AC? (I feel like doing it however I do not have a party that I fell comfortable with).

On topic:
Being ingored by most of the players isn’t a large problem as long as it exists.

Vayne.8563:

NoTrigger.8396:

Vayne.8563:

There’s no difficult content in this game that I particularly enjoy. I can do it. I HAVE done it. I’m not lazy. I’m not interested in what you’re interested in. That doesn’t mean I don’t care. It just means that’s not my thing.

ok its not your thing and thats completely fine. no problem with that.
but why are people like you against something that wouldnt affect them at all?!

im not interested in the stuff that you enjoy, but do you see me on forums saying that i am against content for players like you? no.

Did you see the part where I said I agree we need more challenging content? Because I said it, in the first post you replied to me with.

I’m not against more challenging content being added to the game. I just think that most of the challenging content tends to get ignored. It always has in this game.

People ran CoF path 1 over and over again, not CoF path 3, which is definitely harder.

CoF path 3 isn’t harder, actually it’s easy. It’s takes longer because people are inexperienced with the path so time does not equal “harder” content. Same goes for SE path 2, it’s very simple and easy just takes a lot more time and isn’t worth it. (There are of course exceptions with super tryhard speed clearing guilds that can do each path in minutes, but I’m talking about the general population).

Vayne.8563:

NoTrigger.8396:

Vayne.8563:

NoTrigger.8396:

Vayne.8563:

There’s no difficult content in this game that I particularly enjoy. I can do it. I HAVE done it. I’m not lazy. I’m not interested in what you’re interested in. That doesn’t mean I don’t care. It just means that’s not my thing.

ok its not your thing and thats completely fine. no problem with that.
but why are people like you against something that wouldnt affect them at all?!

im not interested in the stuff that you enjoy, but do you see me on forums saying that i am against content for players like you? no.

Did you see the part where I said I agree we need more challenging content? Because I said it, in the first post you replied to me with.

I’m not against more challenging content being added to the game. I just think that most of the challenging content tends to get ignored. It always has in this game.

People ran CoF path 1 over and over again, not CoF path 3, which is definitely harder.

once a carbine dev said something like “players will always do the most efficient thing, its the developers job to make sure challenging content is fun and rewarding at the same time”.

That’s true, of course. However, I think there’s a percentage of people who work opposite to that. You make something challenging and give it a great reward and people will do stuff they don’t find fun in order to get that reward. I’ve done it, myself. Played content I didn’t enjoy to get something out of it.

So making that content rewarding enough to force people to do it, if there’s enough of it, could drive people from the game.

but if there is no higher tier of gear, the rewards will always be optional. so i dont really see that happen in gw2.

Lunar Sunset.8742:

Vayne.8563:

NoTrigger.8396:

Vayne.8563:

There’s no difficult content in this game that I particularly enjoy. I can do it. I HAVE done it. I’m not lazy. I’m not interested in what you’re interested in. That doesn’t mean I don’t care. It just means that’s not my thing.

ok its not your thing and thats completely fine. no problem with that.
but why are people like you against something that wouldnt affect them at all?!

im not interested in the stuff that you enjoy, but do you see me on forums saying that i am against content for players like you? no.

Did you see the part where I said I agree we need more challenging content? Because I said it, in the first post you replied to me with.

I’m not against more challenging content being added to the game. I just think that most of the challenging content tends to get ignored. It always has in this game.

People ran CoF path 1 over and over again, not CoF path 3, which is definitely harder.

CoF path 3 isn’t harder, actually it’s easy. It’s takes longer because people are inexperienced with the path so time does not equal “harder” content. Same goes for SE path 2, it’s very simple and easy just takes a lot more time and isn’t worth it. (There are of course exceptions with super tryhard speed clearing guilds that can do each path in minutes, but I’m talking about the general population).

I actually find path 3 harder. One example is the three torches that all have to be lit at the same time. That means at least someone has to be able to solo and stay alive long enough to do that. I’m talking about the corridor you have to run up with the bombs. That takes practice and skill. I like that btw. Actually path 3 is my favorite path of CoF…but I still find it harder.

If you really love hardcore go do high level dungeons in FFXIV. Personally, I game to relax.

Drow.2081:

If you really love hardcore go do high level dungeons in FFXIV. Personally, I game to relax.

so if we like a challenge we’re not even allowed to play this game anymore? if you don’t want a challenge then ignore the challenging content and i’ll ignore the easy content

Drow.2081:

If you really love hardcore go do high level dungeons in FFXIV. Personally, I game to relax.

this is the prime example of what makes me so mad about discussions like this.
you can easily turn this around and say
“if you game to relax go play a game on your smart phone, i game because of challenge”.

you should accept that people are different, have different wishes, play for different reasons and like different types of content.
the game should have something for every player and not only content that you personally enjoy.

Testudo.4620:

Drow.2081:

If you really love hardcore go do high level dungeons in FFXIV. Personally, I game to relax.

so if we like a challenge we’re not even allowed to play this game anymore? if you don’t want a challenge then ignore the challenging content and i’ll ignore the easy content

They’re adding challenging content in HoT. They haven’t talked about it specifically yet.

NoTrigger.8396:

Vayne.8563:

NoTrigger.8396:

Vayne.8563:

NoTrigger.8396:

Vayne.8563:

There’s no difficult content in this game that I particularly enjoy. I can do it. I HAVE done it. I’m not lazy. I’m not interested in what you’re interested in. That doesn’t mean I don’t care. It just means that’s not my thing.

ok its not your thing and thats completely fine. no problem with that.
but why are people like you against something that wouldnt affect them at all?!

im not interested in the stuff that you enjoy, but do you see me on forums saying that i am against content for players like you? no.

Did you see the part where I said I agree we need more challenging content? Because I said it, in the first post you replied to me with.

I’m not against more challenging content being added to the game. I just think that most of the challenging content tends to get ignored. It always has in this game.

People ran CoF path 1 over and over again, not CoF path 3, which is definitely harder.

once a carbine dev said something like “players will always do the most efficient thing, its the developers job to make sure challenging content is fun and rewarding at the same time”.

That’s true, of course. However, I think there’s a percentage of people who work opposite to that. You make something challenging and give it a great reward and people will do stuff they don’t find fun in order to get that reward. I’ve done it, myself. Played content I didn’t enjoy to get something out of it.

So making that content rewarding enough to force people to do it, if there’s enough of it, could drive people from the game.

but if there is no higher tier of gear, the rewards will always be optional. so i dont really see that happen in gw2.

This is where it gets tricky. The rewards are optional depending on what you hold valuable. As an argument, suppose your game is to collect minis. It’s what you do. And if that hard content offers a mini, you’re going to feel compelled to do that content. I’m that way with achievements. I didn’t enjoy many of the achievements in the Living World Season 2, but I got them all. And no, I didn’t enjoy getting most of them.

Vayne.8563:

Testudo.4620:

Drow.2081:

If you really love hardcore go do high level dungeons in FFXIV. Personally, I game to relax.

so if we like a challenge we’re not even allowed to play this game anymore? if you don’t want a challenge then ignore the challenging content and i’ll ignore the easy content

They’re adding challenging content in HoT. They haven’t talked about it specifically yet.

that’s a shame, i just uninstalled gw2 and now i’m playing FFXIV

Testudo.4620:

Vayne.8563:

Testudo.4620:

Drow.2081:

If you really love hardcore go do high level dungeons in FFXIV. Personally, I game to relax.

so if we like a challenge we’re not even allowed to play this game anymore? if you don’t want a challenge then ignore the challenging content and i’ll ignore the easy content

They’re adding challenging content in HoT. They haven’t talked about it specifically yet.

that’s a shame, i just uninstalled gw2 and now i’m playing FFXIV

Okay. I thought the game sucked. If you like it, by all means, play it. Have fun.

Vayne.8563:

Testudo.4620:

Vayne.8563:

Testudo.4620:

Drow.2081:

If you really love hardcore go do high level dungeons in FFXIV. Personally, I game to relax.

so if we like a challenge we’re not even allowed to play this game anymore? if you don’t want a challenge then ignore the challenging content and i’ll ignore the easy content

They’re adding challenging content in HoT. They haven’t talked about it specifically yet.

that’s a shame, i just uninstalled gw2 and now i’m playing FFXIV

Okay. I thought the game sucked. If you like it, by all means, play it. Have fun.

i can’t tell if you’re messing with me or if you didn’t get the joke

Testudo.4620:

Vayne.8563:

Testudo.4620:

Vayne.8563:

Testudo.4620:

Drow.2081:

If you really love hardcore go do high level dungeons in FFXIV. Personally, I game to relax.

so if we like a challenge we’re not even allowed to play this game anymore? if you don’t want a challenge then ignore the challenging content and i’ll ignore the easy content

They’re adding challenging content in HoT. They haven’t talked about it specifically yet.

that’s a shame, i just uninstalled gw2 and now i’m playing FFXIV

Okay. I thought the game sucked. If you like it, by all means, play it. Have fun.

i can’t tell if you’re messing with me or if you didn’t get the joke

He is messing with you.

Varezenem.2813:

Testudo.4620:

Vayne.8563:

Testudo.4620:

Vayne.8563:

Testudo.4620:

Drow.2081:

If you really love hardcore go do high level dungeons in FFXIV. Personally, I game to relax.

so if we like a challenge we’re not even allowed to play this game anymore? if you don’t want a challenge then ignore the challenging content and i’ll ignore the easy content

They’re adding challenging content in HoT. They haven’t talked about it specifically yet.

that’s a shame, i just uninstalled gw2 and now i’m playing FFXIV

Okay. I thought the game sucked. If you like it, by all means, play it. Have fun.

i can’t tell if you’re messing with me or if you didn’t get the joke

He is messing with you.

Me? Blinks innocently.

Vayne.8563:

Varezenem.2813:

Testudo.4620:

Vayne.8563:

Testudo.4620:

Vayne.8563:

Testudo.4620:

Drow.2081:

If you really love hardcore go do high level dungeons in FFXIV. Personally, I game to relax.

so if we like a challenge we’re not even allowed to play this game anymore? if you don’t want a challenge then ignore the challenging content and i’ll ignore the easy content

They’re adding challenging content in HoT. They haven’t talked about it specifically yet.

that’s a shame, i just uninstalled gw2 and now i’m playing FFXIV

Okay. I thought the game sucked. If you like it, by all means, play it. Have fun.

i can’t tell if you’re messing with me or if you didn’t get the joke

He is messing with you.

Me? Blinks innocently.

personally i haven’t blinked in years

NoTrigger.8396:

thats pretty much all i have to say.

Obviously, you didn’t mean anything close to that.

NoTrigger.8396:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZtGShP_lP0

this is what challenging means to me. and it wouldnt be too hard to make stuff like that for gw2.

I guess video does nothing for conveying difficulty unless the viewer has already played the game. That actually looked incredibly boring and repetitive. I assume that is not what you meant by challenging.

Khisanth.2948:

NoTrigger.8396:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZtGShP_lP0

this is what challenging means to me. and it wouldnt be too hard to make stuff like that for gw2.

I guess video does nothing for conveying difficulty unless the viewer has already played the game. That actually looked incredibly boring and repetitive. I assume that is not what you meant by challenging.

the fight took 500+ wipes and ptr experience to kill it. there is alot of stuff going on that you dont really see and it would be too much to explain.

the basic stuff is:
- the ball in the middle shoots a laser that needs to be interrupted. if you interrupt at the wrong time or not at all -> wipe.

- the red circles apply a debuff to you and everyone else who gets hit. if the debuff runs out after 40 sec -> you die. the only way to prevent that from happening is push the boss within the time or cleanse yourself using the bath (green telegraph). if you cleanse yourself adds spawn.
the red circle is distance based. so players who are closer to the boss get it first. when every player in the raid has the debuff, the circle will appear under a player who already has the debuff -> player dies.

- you have to be positioned in a way so there is always someone left who doesnt have the debuff.

- constant dot damage, healing is hard af and positioning of players matters alot, because you cant stack with people who are affected by the debuff -> harder to heal.

- when one of the bosses dies you have about 20 seconds to kill the others. if you dont, the dead bosses respawn with 50% of their max hp.

- bosses get corrupted in a set order. its north -> west -> east -> west -> east -> north.

- corrupted bosses are where the red debuff circles spawn first, but you deal 25% bonus damage to them.

- if one player dies before you start to push north from 20 to 0% its a wipe because you wont have the dps to meet the requirements.

- the maze (moving telegraphs) oneshots you at some point. with heavy armor you can eat an autoattack, medium and light armor dies instantly.

- you have to split the raid at some point, because you want west and east to be at 1% before you go to north with the raid, so 2 dps can go and kill them while the other people kill north.

NoTrigger.8396:

Numot.3965:

The thing is; how do you define “challenging”?

For me personally its having to use my wits and tools at hand to accomplish my goals, be it pve or pvp. Pve is less challenging because you can exploit the AI, but that’s fine by me, because it still has some challenge.

Pvp is the true challenging content for me because you have to outwit people in higher levels of play, play against the players, not just the build/profession. It’s dynamic, crazy things happen: be it stomps or comebacks.

My issue with people wanting harder pve content isn’t asking for things that make for better content overall, like better monster AI, and things that punish stacking. Instead its this bizarre need to throw back to all the old K&J grinders most people gleefully left to come play gw2. Wasting time with damage sponge monsters that require you to memorize rotations isn’t fun, that’s drudgery. Same with instant kill bosses. I’m all for more encounters that are more dynamic and take advantage of the combat system this game provides; the molten alliance twin boss for example are pretty enjoyable.

The thing people have yet to learn is there is no challenge in wasting time.
Those old MMORPGs you played? all arbitrary difficulty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZtGShP_lP0

this is what challenging means to me. and it wouldnt be too hard to make stuff like that for gw2.

I admit, those telegraphs are fun, and looks good, but, in some way thats the problem. When somebody like you says(and i’m not wording this too be bad, negative or anything offensive) “challangeing group content” my first thoughts is:
I don’t want to prepare 1 hour just to get started
I don’t want to herded by a power maniac dark lord
I don’t want to fight for those private spots in the kill
I don’t want to be harassed just because i’m not that good as Sir Numero uno Grand Damager and Rager of thousand Innocents
I don’t want to be devalued because Sir Numero uno killed Supreme Lord Bunny of hell with her buddies Sir Numero Dos, Sir Numero Tres and Sir Numero Cuatro
These are just some.

This might look offensive and such, but believe me no. I have a really mixed personal experience on this, i played wow for like 4-5 years with a semi hardcore guild. In my opinion.
Challenging instanced content woulkd bring:
Sorted roster of “raiders”
VIP runs (kills)
Handicapping avarage players
Over reacted fails. Unnecessary rage

This is why i love the world boss concept:
Everyone can participate
No one try to Herd, scold, and harass somebody with here given “lead” title.

so again, these are few points, i hope you guys see what i want to say.
Guild Wars 2 imo build upon a dream, to everyone be somehow equal and accomplish with numbers. With challenging world bosses, within the sweet spot like Teq – VW – Wyvern fight – and the new map specific challanges. Then evolve them, multiple them.

Without bosses like TT… what forces guilds, groups, organizers to instance, privatize it, then sort the roster.. the roster of a WORLD Boss… it’s just bad. Don’t get me wrong, i gladly go up to teamspeak, and listen to the tactic ,even look after it. But when people privatize it, its over. it’s bad for everyone who avarage or just can’t be heard by those fair and nice organizers. I would bet my hat that, those who kill TT is mainly the same x people with some, few..really few “not regular participier”

Sorry for my bad english ,is not my native language. I hope my thoughts gets to you.

I have to agree with Wooden Potatoes. They should have NEVER changed the level requirements for PS. It used to be fun to do, because having yourself 5 levels under (since it was barely hard anyway) made it some-what harder, and more like an actual hero storyline where you felt like you had actually contributed to the PS world and to your own enjoyment.
Now I literally do the lvl 10 PS, then ignore the rest. Used to love doing them too, before last years patch.

I am over 40…not really a kid….but I prefer games like GW2 now…it’s accessible…I can get top gear and not have to raid or join some giagantic guild that is merely just vehicle to loots…no I can do it alone or with complete strangers here…that’s just…awesome?

I do agree that there should be difficult content for the hardcores but on other hand cutting out the casual market is a bad idea and has killed more mmos than I care to list.

edit. term adjusted since it makes people mad upset for some weird reason.

I’m fine with the personal story being easy. I don’t mind there being easy events.

However, I feel that there needs to be more challenging content in the core game. If HoT really is the promised challenging content, then there will be a high wall between core GW2 and HoT.

I feel that the main story (this includes the personal story, dungeon story modes, the eventual-to-be Season 1 instances brought back, the current Season 2 instances, and HoT’s future instances) should be easy but progressively more challenging. However, casual players should be able to complete it all.

• Dungeons should be for those who want challenges.
• World bosses should be for those who want challenges.
• Specialized zones (to me this should be Southsun, Dry Top, and Silverwastes) should be for those who want challenges.

Similar to how in GW1, there was normal mode, then there were elite missions, then there was hard mode, then there was elite missions in hard mode. Each form progressively more challenging (some elite missions being more challenging than hard mode), but only the base normal mode was needed for completion.

Challenging content should give new rewards – both those we can steadily work towards (e.g., via special currency) and those we can get by chance (rng drops). The best would give the rewards through both forms (like Silverwastes does for the carapace armor boxes).

But not everything – especially the main story as everyone would play it – should be challenging.

1. Give us World Bosses, both on the timer and not (sans the four beginner ones), as comparable to Breach+Vinewrath to Triple Trouble level of difficulty
2. Give us all explorable dungeons comparable to Aetherpath (level 80, series of tricks and traps and unique mechanics for each fight both boss and none)
3. Give us special level 80 zones dedicated to being challenging content

That’s all you need to do Anet. So long as a handful are periodically added to those lists.

MauricioCezar.2673:

So, 2 things resume what I am not okay with :

• http://www.tentonhammer.com/columns/persistent-worlds/persistent-worlds-whats-biggest-issue-facing-guild-wars-2

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJUMino2KDA

Each of the articles talk in a different way, about the same topic, and both bring up the question: Are you okay with this? Are you okay with the game being more and more “Easy” and less challenging (aka – Auto Attack still makes you beat content easily).

I decided to show my personnal awser here, at anet own forum, so maaaybe, it gets considered as feedback : NO, I am not okay with that.

I really want to roll a new PC when HoT arrive to play trough all the PS again, and face HoT into a different perspective, but after watching how poor the PS and content are in the game actually, I am inclined to agree with what those articles talks about, gw2 is actually way too easy, and becmoing even boring.

PS: Don’t get me wrong, I am a vicied fan of gw2, that experienced the whole gw1 campaigns and played over 5k hours just because I love it. So, i kindly ask to this topic be received as feedback to better construction of future “Patchs”.

Heh, my 7 year old daughter, who never played much video games until GW2 hit L80 as a Mesmer in about 3 months playing about 2 hours a day. She basically ran around doing some exploring a mostly face rolled (the 1 key is your friend). Now on the one hand, playing a game where “Daddy, help me!” Is not constantly repeated is nice, on the other hand it kind of makes me feel that we could add a lot more challenging content and still not get anywhere near “hardcore” content.

Personally speaking though I would prefer that Anet focus on making every weapon for every class actually viable for every mode. I think that bothers me more than the content.

fixit.7189:

I do agree that there should be difficult content for the elitists but on other hand cutting out the casual market is a bad idea and has killed more mmos than I care to list.

How does wanting to play something where you actually have try and put out more than the bare minimum amount of effort make you elitist? I demand perfection just because I want instances that don’t have you just wail on the boss from beginning to end???
I can’t speak for everyone of course, but A lot of people would just like something where you can put the skill and effort in to feel satisfied that you’ve just finished something significant, instead of just a time commitment to get some dungeon currency.

Obviously as time goes on ppl will get used to it and it won’t be that hard anymore, but maybe that’s the problem, Anet takes so kitten long to add content like this. When was Aether path added, over a year ago?! That’s not even a full dungeon and that’s the last significant even moderately hard content they’ve added. ( I think).

Also I dont get what the argument against harder content is? Cuz 1) no one is suggesting to completely overhaul GW2 into a hardcore game and 2) Adding some challenging instances isn’t going to ruin your causal after work fun time.

Edit: what people like me want is for SOME more challenging options in this game thats really lacking it. Why are you fighting against that?

How am i fighting against that.

I said I am all for them adding harder content.

But I also want to say that you do not want to leave the less than hardcores behind.

Adding super hard content leads to people wanting better/exlusive items and going that route opens up a whole lotta problems if done poorly.

So add a hard mode dungeon or instance that isn’t required and doesn’t add to the story or general gaming experience. I thought that’s what high level fractals were anyhow. That’s totally cool with me, heck I argued to not nerf the Queen’s Gauntlet or SAB Tribulation mode even though I could never enjoy either one because those players needed something too and I lost out on nothing storywise by missing them. Aether angered me because there was story in there I wanted to experience and no one would run it without zerk/stacking/etc (which are ways of cheesing difficult content anyhow) so I missed out.

And I agree with Wooden Potatoes too, personal story is too easy and level locking it made that worse. Aside from a few minor tweaks that had to be done, PS was fine and it was fun to do it underleveled for a challenge or overlevelled when you just wanted to run through it. Living Story Season Two had that Shadow of the Dragon solo fight which is gross and hard and made me scream in frustration and a lot of other crap that was either harder or bugged (Maj.. Kas.. stop talking on the wall in Kessex and watching Belinda die and not doing anything, you’re supposed to be helping me fight here).

I’m not for locking skilled but not hardcore players out of content that involves story though but by all means, add other stuff!

The problem I have is how much is enough. That’s really the issue here. The question is can Anet produce enough hard core content to satisfy even a portion of the hard core crowd. I’m skeptical that they can, but I hope I’m wrong.

The hard core crowd finds ways through stuff. They find easy mode. They find efficient strategies. Which is fine. But it means that stuff that was once hard enough becomes easy as they do it.

The hard core crowd seems to be asking Anet to throw them a bone, and I understand that completely. But it’s not likely to change the nature of the game. It’s not going to be 12 new dungeons.

So unless it’s something huge, like the Underworld from GW1, the playerbase will play it and get tired of it. They’ll ask for more.

If Anet can keep both the hardcore crowd and casual crowd happy, I’m all for it. If creating the hard core stuff makes it so the casual crowd isn’t happy, I’m not.

I’d do all the hardcore stuff once, like I did in Guild Wars 1. Maybe again if a guildie needs help. But that’s pretty much my limit.

I actually hope there’s enough development staff at Anet to make everyone happy.

While skimming this thread there are several things that are going through my head.

#1: Anet is already making new content in the game to be harder than what we have now. They’re hesitant to revamp old content with good reason: It is better to make new stuff harder, than to take something easier that players might already enjoy and make it harder. I’ve been running AC daily since the patch, and about every other pug goes through this same conversation:

“OMG why is this so hard?” — after wiping on the first champ
“They recently nerfed downscaled damage here” — Me
“Lol Anet ruined AC” — everyone else.

Something to the effect of confusion and frustration. I only heard one person other than myself who actually liked the change.

#2: Difficulty breeds toxicity. “challenging group content” can be roughly translated into “Gear and build checks and seething hatred for all the other people who hold you back/didn’t carry you well enough.” I still very clearly remember watching people in chat kitten at each other for 15 minutes in a dungeon because one person didn’t like how the other one couldn’t skip by themselves. Even now, I see tequatl break down into fighting over who is ruining everything. It is no secret that the dungeon community is one of the worst communities in this game.

Granted, I would like to see things at lower levels be a bit harder in the open world than they are now. Currently, if you actually run a dungeon at the appropriate level it is a difficulty shock. That level of things should be eased into a bit better. But this is not an easy task: we have to essentially balance content for an utter newb elementalist and warrior at the same time, even though one is nearly twice as durable as the other.

the problem is that there is not enough hardcore content existing

its not necessary at all to make all the existing content harder…
the casuals can have that the way it is… and it is nice that you can return to the game and always be able to beat the basic stories

but many other players want other extra hardcore content too….
so for hardcore and veteran players Anet should definity introcue some new Elite Zones that are really really hardcore…
and offer a hardmode for stories maybe
so casuals do it the easy way and the ones who seek challenge can have fun actually doing something but pressing 1 for the storyrewards…

the last living story parts where actually a big improvement if you compare it to the basic Personal Story….
but there is still clearly more option for higher difficulty

there is no reason why anyone could be against this!
(and if you think you know any good reason pls tell me)
casuals still would have their easier content… so no reason to complain at all

Behellagh.1468:

I only read the TTH article but if HoT featured what he wanted, it would be a strike against it for me. Why? Because I hate forced group content. Why? Because formal party play in GW2 has devolved into a very elitist meta. Not the content, the party. If you don’t have your own guild or regular group of friends, PUGs of this type of content quickly becomes a “you must run X in Y gear and study YouTube videos of runs so you know what to do” otherwise you won’t find teammates. That’s why I’m happy that they made Arah soloable. Otherwise you either party up with players that will cut a newbie zero slack or be forced to pay players to come with you.

You want “challenging group content” there are other games, GW2 is a game for those who want an escape from that.

Why is this meta “elitist”? I fail to see it. It is a simple fact that zerker gear is the most effective gear to use and it is also a simple fact that you can beat any content in PvE with zerker gear. This is hardly an issue with “elitism”. I’d even go as far to say that ther is no elitism in this game, otherwise I’d be an “elite” too, as would be all my guildmates. Wearing zerker gear and expecting others to run it is not elitism.

And if people can watch PewDiePie playing Happy Wheels 70 times, then they can watch one video per dungeon path to know the basic mechanics.

Or they could just create their own group with whatever requirement they deem to see fit.

The mistake is, again, assuming that there are only lazy unskilled casuals who want to press one and win every time and hardcore/vets who want teeth grinding hard content and are the only ones who enjoy challenge with absolutely no in-between.

The problem is there is a massive gray area of players who find pressing 111 to win horribly boring but want a moderate challenge with a slight chance of failure and mechanics they may need to adapt to but not to the point of having to be absolutely perfect to succeed. That’s where I am. I don’t want easy peesy press one to win but the heck if I want Guild Souls 2 either and here is someone else forgetting players like me exist. We get lumped into ‘casual’ – stop that! I want hardcores to have their content but I don’t exactly want to be left behind either with the no challenge at all crowd.

Oh come on people we all know the CGC isn’t going to be challenging really.

The playerbase as a whole isn’t exactly great on the skill-o-metre now is it? No offense to anyone, but I’ve got thousends of hours in this game, played thousends of PvP matches, fractal 50 yada yada yada and the average person I come across is really poor.
Half the time they aren’t even aware of their own class mechanics.

But the game is really blatantly catering towards these people, which is fine.

So the challenging group content will probably be challening for this type of player. So when the legit good knowledgable people start hacking at it, it will most likely end up on farm status so fast if you sneeze you’ll miss it.

And sorry if I sound elitest or what ever term you’d like to use, but I think it’s pretty obvious.

I will not be suprised at all if this “CGC” ends up being a kick to the private area for the actual people who wanted it in the first place.

NoTrigger.8396:

there is a difference between casual players (who simply cant invest a lot of time)

There are hardcores that cannot invest a lot of time. There are casuals with a lot of free time on their hands. It is not the main factor. I’d say that more important is how laid back the player is. Hardcores in general treat the game as Serious Business, and are prone to Proving Their Worth. To this end they obviously prefer to have a challenging content in the game. Challenging just so much that they will be able to do it, but anyone else won’t. Casuals on the other hand generally don’t care that much about recognition, and just want to have fun. Preferably without getting stressed too much.

NoTrigger.8396:

but if there is no higher tier of gear, the rewards will always be optional. so i dont really see that happen in gw2.

“optional” doesn’t mean people will not want them. Rare skins are optional – have you seen how much people are willing to pay for some of them?

Kormeg.2469:

How does wanting to play something where you actually have try and put out more than the bare minimum amount of effort make you elitist?

What you consider “bare minimum of effort” will be a hard content for others. On the other hand, what you would consider hard difficulty might be a cakewalk for another player – that in turn will ask for a “really challenging content”.
Anet wants a content that players will play in – and the great majority of players find AC difficult. I know that might seem surprising, seeing how easy that dungeon is, but it is nonetheless the truth.

So, by asking about a challenging content for you, you are asking about content that will exclude a large part of the player population. A content aimed at a Chosen Few. Some people would call that elitist behaviour.