Guild Wars 2

@ Nemesis

Generally speaking a class can have a theoretical and a practical DPS…

You of all people shoul know the theoretical DPS islisted everywhere to boast effectiveness someimes with huge impossible even rotations…. I think I remember somthing abouut a 48 step rotation being used somewhere for maximum use of fields…..

You and I know this to be nice theorycrafting, but useless in combat…. Interupts, dodges and so on will void fields or combo’s reducing the effectiveness of said combo’s very fast. also destorying the rotations….

Now you ask for a personal DPS meter even though you should be aware you are not soloing most content… In effect also destorying the validity of your values. The next time with a different group you CANNOT rework the same rotations and boost as the end result depends on more then your personal rotations….

You also need the rotations and fields of others, and them being in the right place, especially in you’ll need more then 1 player for optimized results, again voiding all measurements… during a large part of the combat if one player dodges left and you dodging right…

Fact is raid content and other content of comparable level will need group effort to maximize results, while retaining effectiveness, this could mean stacking as we used to but if it goes sour you’ll wipe. If not it’s still a useless result due to the fact you’ll be using 2 or 3 groups during encounters (boons have 5 targets so max 5 ppl in a stack) for small scale sub encounters like the 3 small bosses in the 1st leg you’ll need 3 groups of 3 with 1 to spare to optimize the engagement builds need to be optimized for both engagements…

No boon stripping? no conditions? no cc? we’ll need all: each player will have specific tasks while being able to perform these tasks, having a good sustainable DPS is nice, but will we need crusaders, trailblazers/commander or something more glassy like zealot/viper/zerk?

I think we can work out (MINIMUM! requirements) while not using DPS meters….

The only groups really in need of DPS meters are the “speedrunners” , the recordmakers and -breakers. For them it’s a sport, but for the 99.999% of all other people just finishing the content is rewarding enough.

And yes I expect “ping gear” to filter out the nomad/dolyaks CC heal/tanks but I do not think we can say: Well you have assassin, you cannot join as it’s not zerk and because he has sinister he can because his bleed is 10pts per tick higher the the viper guy…

These assumptions without having an overview of avaiable CC’s DOT and DPS, boons, boonstrips and all other possibilities in the group would make this all nearly impossible.
It would also no longer be ineteresting for the masses if it would hang by stats instead of capabilities of players ( ignoring some obvious things like previously mentioned nomads/dolyak heal/CC-er, but who knows maybe it will be a neccesary instrument, for kiting controlling and surviving…)

Meta is a tool, like these mentioned DPS meters. Using the tool could give people an idea which tools they need to combat the event. Problem has been “the Meta locked itself into stats and gear while it should be focussed on minimum requirements to complete content and should give handles about acces to soft and hard CC’s and cleanses/heals/buffs/combo’s with groups”.

Most people only know 2 or 3 combo’s…. There is way more then just firefields.
Having a group with all fields but no finishers or having all acces to chill would be examples of waisted effort… like focussing all groups fully on vulnerability and having over 75 stacks avaialble at any give point, but having lower then 75 could drop your dps fighting 3 mini champions, is this a problem? or should you be content with having only 30 or 60 vulnerbility?

Can you all foretell? Do you have any clue about what is to come after the vale guardian?

Not all people have 3 complete armors or acces to 9 lvl 80’s nor would they want to change it for every quirk.

Could bosses be done with all proffessions instead of being mindless and just using 3 builds cause they are max spec?

3 builds would be easy mode, maybe recordbreaking but cheesy to the point where i say it’s dumbing down the game , but having 1 of every class and maybe 1 double?
You would allow for a lot of additional players….. and maake the theorycrafting usefull…

I am against a DPS meter cause I think players cannot handle it, not because it would be a bad tool; I would like the tool a lot, problem is you need to use it right, and I cannot see the playerbase doing it right…. I’ve seen people kicked in dungeons for myriad of reasons and then some…. I’ll see this happen in raids as well…

For now people giving boosts: ranger, warrior, guardian, revenant could give:
+ 41% crit chance (includes fury)
+ 1000 power (includes might)
+ 10% crit dmg
+ 35% dmg
+ 320 toughness
+ 170 vitality
- 33% dmg received.
to 5 people… not even including boons other then might and fury and not including debuff other then vulnerability..
problem is this requires the group to be in 240 range or so… and this only allows for 2 groups, not 3!

Its the dunning-kruger effect. He hasn’t responded to any of my points at all. His posts are poorly written and he ignores the point of many things. The reason why he calls everyone stupid is because he himself is not smart enough to get what everyone else is saying. It is never productive to argue against someone who’s arguing point ever includes some statement about how much they hate people who disagree with them.

Andraus.3874:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Citronvand.2837:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Arena net please don’t add a damage meter, this will only create elitism! I really don’t want this game to turn into wow!

Let me give you an example, in world of Warcraft there are raids, and in every raid there are will be failiure the first try! After each failure people start whining and blame each other, and in the end the raid lead is forced by everyone to boot the lowest dps, lowest heal. In all honesty 1 wipe is ok and just to boot people for 1 failure is just stupid I don’t want this game to turn into wow thank you!

Guild War 2 have the best community and the friendliest players I don’t want that to change. In all honesty I don’t mind carrying a bad player no matter how difficult the content is thank you!

Would you be against a personal damage meter that only you can see?

no! however that still have the potential to create elitism for example guilds forcing people to post their best dps!

Yes but why did we need another thread for this.

Yeah… force to post your DPS is so bad… especially since your DPS variate insanely based on your comp and encounter so they literally can’t force you… because at Bloomhunger you have 15k DPS with one comp, 25K DPS with perma alacrity… and the same build will give you 7K DPS at flame shaman.

Guilds right now just force you to use the “meta builds” and “meta comps” which were created based on fake math.

Making comps and builds based on real numbers and finally taking into consideration the mechanics of fights, which no one has done with math… is such a bad thing…

I’ve seen thousands of “meta or GTFO”, “READ OR KICK”, “META KNOW YOUR kitten” LFG groups for the past 2 years…

Having the a tool which will make people eventually realize that they can not play the game based on fake math which never resembles reality… thus they should stop kicking and discriminating and that playing full zerker melee vs a boss with perma prot, deadly AoE attacks and power invulnerability shield may not be such a good idea after all…

IS… WRONG… because you said so.

Q1: what build(s) do you use now, and where did you get them from ?
Q2: have you ever vote kicked another player out of a pug group, based on what ?

Just my 2 cents.

If this meter will be completely personally as in only showing your own dps and not of someone else, why not? I used one in WoW just to see my own performance and to see if i could improve myself on certain encounters.

Offair.2563:

Just my 2 cents.

If this meter will be completely personally as in only showing your own dps and not of someone else, why not? I used one in WoW just to see my own performance and to see if i could improve myself on certain encounters.

the problem is it will not be just for you, the potential for abuse is obvious. and once you allow personal dps meter, very fast the elitist plaeyrs will demand dps meter for every single encounter! Also personal DPS is not personal because immediately parties force you to post your best dps score, whether it is in chat, instant message, or forums!

Nemesis.8593:

Andraus.3874:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Citronvand.2837:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Arena net please don’t add a damage meter, this will only create elitism! I really don’t want this game to turn into wow!

Let me give you an example, in world of Warcraft there are raids, and in every raid there are will be failiure the first try! After each failure people start whining and blame each other, and in the end the raid lead is forced by everyone to boot the lowest dps, lowest heal. In all honesty 1 wipe is ok and just to boot people for 1 failure is just stupid I don’t want this game to turn into wow thank you!

Guild War 2 have the best community and the friendliest players I don’t want that to change. In all honesty I don’t mind carrying a bad player no matter how difficult the content is thank you!

Would you be against a personal damage meter that only you can see?

no! however that still have the potential to create elitism for example guilds forcing people to post their best dps!

Yes but why did we need another thread for this.

Yeah… force to post your DPS is so bad… especially since your DPS variate insanely based on your comp and encounter so they literally can’t force you… because at Bloomhunger you have 15k DPS with one comp, 25K DPS with perma alacrity… and the same build will give you 7K DPS at flame shaman.

Guilds right now just force you to use the “meta builds” and “meta comps” which were created based on fake math.

Making comps and builds based on real numbers and finally taking into consideration the mechanics of fights, which no one has done with math… is such a bad thing…

I’ve seen thousands of “meta or GTFO”, “READ OR KICK”, “META KNOW YOUR kitten” LFG groups for the past 2 years…

Having the a tool which will make people eventually realize that they can not play the game based on fake math which never resembles reality… thus they should stop kicking and discriminating and that playing full zerker melee vs a boss with perma prot, deadly AoE attacks and power invulnerability shield may not be such a good idea after all…

IS… WRONG… because you said so.

Q1: what build(s) do you use now, and where did you get them from ?
Q2: have you ever vote kicked another player out of a pug group, based on what ?

A1 i use full zerker, because thats give you the best dps. and it has been tested by time and thats what all top players use, and thats good enough for me!
A2 I have never kicked any player until after HOT release, I kicked players who obviously don’t have HOT, because I feel they can not contribute as much damage due to the lack of elite specialization, and I dont like people leeching (when they are playing for free and I have to pay 50 dollars!)

I get your frustration with it. It ruined a lot in WoW yea but thats why i said i wont have problems with it IF its personal and you cant see others nor you can link it.

Offair.2563:

I get your frustration with it. It ruined a lot in WoW yea but thats why i said i wont have problems with it IF its personal and you cant see others nor you can link it.

if they do add a personal dps meter, then they must have rules and regulations against discriminating people based on dps meter! But I just dont see how those rules can be inforced, and how it is even possible to set rules!

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Offair.2563:

Just my 2 cents.

If this meter will be completely personally as in only showing your own dps and not of someone else, why not? I used one in WoW just to see my own performance and to see if i could improve myself on certain encounters.

the problem is it will not be just for you, the potential for abuse is obvious. and once you allow personal dps meter, very fast the elitist plaeyrs will demand dps meter for every single encounter! Also personal DPS is not personal because immediately parties force you to post your best dps score, whether it is in chat, instant message, or forums!

You are being ridiculous… they can’t force you to post your DPS before you even made it, and by the time you did finish the instance being kicked or not is irrelevant.

Right now people are being kicked at “hello” by others who blindly follow spreadsheet math which is nowhere near close to reality.

Unless you are a wanna-be elitist who enjoys kicking others based on spreadsheets, a personal damage meter will not effect you what so ever.
It will simply allow players to make the correct decisions and improve themselves… and it will also make them stop following spreadsheets and conclusions drawn from them… which is the reason people kick others at “hello” in the first place.

Nemesis.8593:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Offair.2563:

Just my 2 cents.

If this meter will be completely personally as in only showing your own dps and not of someone else, why not? I used one in WoW just to see my own performance and to see if i could improve myself on certain encounters.

the problem is it will not be just for you, the potential for abuse is obvious. and once you allow personal dps meter, very fast the elitist plaeyrs will demand dps meter for every single encounter! Also personal DPS is not personal because immediately parties force you to post your best dps score, whether it is in chat, instant message, or forums!

You are being ridiculous… they can’t force you to post your DPS before you even made it, and by the time you did finish the instance being kicked or not is irrelevant.

Right now people are being kicked at “hello” by others who blindly follow spreadsheet math which is nowhere near close to reality.

Unless you are a wanna-be elitist who enjoys kicking others based on spreadsheets, a personal damage meter will not effect you what so ever.
It will simply allow players to make the correct decisions and improve themselves… and it will also make them stop following spreadsheets and conclusions drawn from them… which is the reason people kick others at “hello” in the first place.

you do have a good point, as I have played very high fractals just recently beat 100, yes people do get kicked and without being given a chance, as a matter of fact people get kicked from arah dungeon path 1 LOL! I feel your pain, I wish I could just give you a personal damage meter so you can be happy, but I cant, I am just afraid this game will become wow! I cant imagine everyone demanding your best personal dps score, that to me is just to invasive, it will destroy this nice and friendly community that we all have come to love!

They’ll just kick after the first wave of enemies, or the first boss.

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Nemesis.8593:

Andraus.3874:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Citronvand.2837:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Arena net please don’t add a damage meter, this will only create elitism! I really don’t want this game to turn into wow!

Let me give you an example, in world of Warcraft there are raids, and in every raid there are will be failiure the first try! After each failure people start whining and blame each other, and in the end the raid lead is forced by everyone to boot the lowest dps, lowest heal. In all honesty 1 wipe is ok and just to boot people for 1 failure is just stupid I don’t want this game to turn into wow thank you!

Guild War 2 have the best community and the friendliest players I don’t want that to change. In all honesty I don’t mind carrying a bad player no matter how difficult the content is thank you!

Would you be against a personal damage meter that only you can see?

no! however that still have the potential to create elitism for example guilds forcing people to post their best dps!

Yes but why did we need another thread for this.

Yeah… force to post your DPS is so bad… especially since your DPS variate insanely based on your comp and encounter so they literally can’t force you… because at Bloomhunger you have 15k DPS with one comp, 25K DPS with perma alacrity… and the same build will give you 7K DPS at flame shaman.

Guilds right now just force you to use the “meta builds” and “meta comps” which were created based on fake math.

Making comps and builds based on real numbers and finally taking into consideration the mechanics of fights, which no one has done with math… is such a bad thing…

I’ve seen thousands of “meta or GTFO”, “READ OR KICK”, “META KNOW YOUR kitten” LFG groups for the past 2 years…

Having the a tool which will make people eventually realize that they can not play the game based on fake math which never resembles reality… thus they should stop kicking and discriminating and that playing full zerker melee vs a boss with perma prot, deadly AoE attacks and power invulnerability shield may not be such a good idea after all…

IS… WRONG… because you said so.

Q1: what build(s) do you use now, and where did you get them from ?
Q2: have you ever vote kicked another player out of a pug group, based on what ?

A1 i use full zerker, because thats give you the best dps. and it has been tested by time and thats what all top players use, and thats good enough for me!
A2 I have never kicked any player until after HOT release, I kicked players who obviously don’t have HOT, because I feel they can not contribute as much damage due to the lack of elite specialization, and I dont like people leeching (when they are playing for free and I have to pay 50 dollars!)

Exactly as i thought…

1. Berzerker does not give out the best DPS, and a damage meter would prove that in a day.
2. All of the spreadsheets are wrong, unless you want to tell me DPS uptime, perma protection, power invulnerability mechanics, dodge… and so on do not change the outcome of a fight at all, in which case… oh dear god…
3. Everything you think you know about the game, based on which you now kick other players… has been thought to you by the “self proclaimed top players” based on 100% fake math which no one can prove in reality

You play the game wrong, kick others who actually contribute… and are against the tool which would put an end to that.

Thank you for your contribution, that’s all i needed.

This individual also said “if you think Guild Wars 2 has an elitist community that kicks people and what not you are off your meds”, as if to further prove my point…

This is exactly why we need a personal damage meter.

Nemesis.8593:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Nemesis.8593:

Andraus.3874:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Citronvand.2837:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Arena net please don’t add a damage meter, this will only create elitism! I really don’t want this game to turn into wow!

Let me give you an example, in world of Warcraft there are raids, and in every raid there are will be failiure the first try! After each failure people start whining and blame each other, and in the end the raid lead is forced by everyone to boot the lowest dps, lowest heal. In all honesty 1 wipe is ok and just to boot people for 1 failure is just stupid I don’t want this game to turn into wow thank you!

Guild War 2 have the best community and the friendliest players I don’t want that to change. In all honesty I don’t mind carrying a bad player no matter how difficult the content is thank you!

Would you be against a personal damage meter that only you can see?

no! however that still have the potential to create elitism for example guilds forcing people to post their best dps!

Yes but why did we need another thread for this.

Yeah… force to post your DPS is so bad… especially since your DPS variate insanely based on your comp and encounter so they literally can’t force you… because at Bloomhunger you have 15k DPS with one comp, 25K DPS with perma alacrity… and the same build will give you 7K DPS at flame shaman.

Guilds right now just force you to use the “meta builds” and “meta comps” which were created based on fake math.

Making comps and builds based on real numbers and finally taking into consideration the mechanics of fights, which no one has done with math… is such a bad thing…

I’ve seen thousands of “meta or GTFO”, “READ OR KICK”, “META KNOW YOUR kitten” LFG groups for the past 2 years…

Having the a tool which will make people eventually realize that they can not play the game based on fake math which never resembles reality… thus they should stop kicking and discriminating and that playing full zerker melee vs a boss with perma prot, deadly AoE attacks and power invulnerability shield may not be such a good idea after all…

IS… WRONG… because you said so.

Q1: what build(s) do you use now, and where did you get them from ?
Q2: have you ever vote kicked another player out of a pug group, based on what ?

A1 i use full zerker, because thats give you the best dps. and it has been tested by time and thats what all top players use, and thats good enough for me!
A2 I have never kicked any player until after HOT release, I kicked players who obviously don’t have HOT, because I feel they can not contribute as much damage due to the lack of elite specialization, and I dont like people leeching (when they are playing for free and I have to pay 50 dollars!)

Exactly as i thought…

1. Berzerker does not give out the best DPS, and a damage meter would prove that in a day.
2. All of the spreadsheets are wrong, unless you want to tell me DPS uptime, perma protection, power invulnerability mechanics, dodge… and so on do not change the outcome of a fight at all, in which case… oh dear god…
3. Everything you think you know about the game, based on which you now kick other players… has been thought to you by the “self proclaimed top players” based on 100% fake math which no one can prove in reality

You play the game wrong, kick others who actually contribute… and are against the tool which would put an end to that.

Thank you for your contribution, that’s all i needed.

This individual also said “if you think Guild Wars 2 has an elitist community that kicks people and what not you are off your meds”, as if to further prove my point…

This is exactly why we need a personal damage meter.

I am too tired to argue, but I think some thing are best left as a mystery, maybe you are right maybe not, but we must not be selfish and just satisfy what is best for ourselves, we must think about the community, and everyone in that community.

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Nemesis.8593:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Nemesis.8593:

Andraus.3874:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Citronvand.2837:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Arena net please don’t add a damage meter, this will only create elitism! I really don’t want this game to turn into wow!

Let me give you an example, in world of Warcraft there are raids, and in every raid there are will be failiure the first try! After each failure people start whining and blame each other, and in the end the raid lead is forced by everyone to boot the lowest dps, lowest heal. In all honesty 1 wipe is ok and just to boot people for 1 failure is just stupid I don’t want this game to turn into wow thank you!

Guild War 2 have the best community and the friendliest players I don’t want that to change. In all honesty I don’t mind carrying a bad player no matter how difficult the content is thank you!

Would you be against a personal damage meter that only you can see?

no! however that still have the potential to create elitism for example guilds forcing people to post their best dps!

Yes but why did we need another thread for this.

Yeah… force to post your DPS is so bad… especially since your DPS variate insanely based on your comp and encounter so they literally can’t force you… because at Bloomhunger you have 15k DPS with one comp, 25K DPS with perma alacrity… and the same build will give you 7K DPS at flame shaman.

Guilds right now just force you to use the “meta builds” and “meta comps” which were created based on fake math.

Making comps and builds based on real numbers and finally taking into consideration the mechanics of fights, which no one has done with math… is such a bad thing…

I’ve seen thousands of “meta or GTFO”, “READ OR KICK”, “META KNOW YOUR kitten” LFG groups for the past 2 years…

Having the a tool which will make people eventually realize that they can not play the game based on fake math which never resembles reality… thus they should stop kicking and discriminating and that playing full zerker melee vs a boss with perma prot, deadly AoE attacks and power invulnerability shield may not be such a good idea after all…

IS… WRONG… because you said so.

Q1: what build(s) do you use now, and where did you get them from ?
Q2: have you ever vote kicked another player out of a pug group, based on what ?

A1 i use full zerker, because thats give you the best dps. and it has been tested by time and thats what all top players use, and thats good enough for me!
A2 I have never kicked any player until after HOT release, I kicked players who obviously don’t have HOT, because I feel they can not contribute as much damage due to the lack of elite specialization, and I dont like people leeching (when they are playing for free and I have to pay 50 dollars!)

Exactly as i thought…

1. Berzerker does not give out the best DPS, and a damage meter would prove that in a day.
2. All of the spreadsheets are wrong, unless you want to tell me DPS uptime, perma protection, power invulnerability mechanics, dodge… and so on do not change the outcome of a fight at all, in which case… oh dear god…
3. Everything you think you know about the game, based on which you now kick other players… has been thought to you by the “self proclaimed top players” based on 100% fake math which no one can prove in reality

You play the game wrong, kick others who actually contribute… and are against the tool which would put an end to that.

Thank you for your contribution, that’s all i needed.

This individual also said “if you think Guild Wars 2 has an elitist community that kicks people and what not you are off your meds”, as if to further prove my point…

This is exactly why we need a personal damage meter.

I am too tired to argue, but I think some thing are best left as a mystery, maybe you are right maybe not, but we must not be selfish and just satisfy what is best for ourselves, we must think about the community, and everyone in that community.

My friend… if we had a personal damage meter, you would see with your own eyes that your maximum DPS vs bosses with heavy armor, perma prot, power invulnerability shields and deadly AoEs is only about 10% of what you get in other locations… therefor you really don’t need to struggle so much as a squishy zerker to achieve so little when you can much have so much more effectiveness with so much less effort by playing a condition build in that particular encounter.

Once you see that with your own eyes, next time a condition build player joins your party at that particular encounter, you will not kick him… in favor of another zerker with the same low effectiveness… you will be happy to see that condition using player.

Do you understand what i am saying ?

If we ever get a damage meter we’ll laugh together about how you use to struggle to achieve so little in some encounters when it could have been done so much more elegant.

I’m the guy who was mad enough to test the REAL DPS values of the meta builds so i’m one of the only people who actually knows what is what…

FYI there is already a personal DPS meter for GW2 that is completely legal to use. It was part of Anets official Overwolf contest:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2xxdfo/gw2_dmg_meter/

Nemesis.8593:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Nemesis.8593:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Nemesis.8593:

Andraus.3874:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Citronvand.2837:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Arena net please don’t add a damage meter, this will only create elitism! I really don’t want this game to turn into wow!

Let me give you an example, in world of Warcraft there are raids, and in every raid there are will be failiure the first try! After each failure people start whining and blame each other, and in the end the raid lead is forced by everyone to boot the lowest dps, lowest heal. In all honesty 1 wipe is ok and just to boot people for 1 failure is just stupid I don’t want this game to turn into wow thank you!

Guild War 2 have the best community and the friendliest players I don’t want that to change. In all honesty I don’t mind carrying a bad player no matter how difficult the content is thank you!

Would you be against a personal damage meter that only you can see?

no! however that still have the potential to create elitism for example guilds forcing people to post their best dps!

Yes but why did we need another thread for this.

Yeah… force to post your DPS is so bad… especially since your DPS variate insanely based on your comp and encounter so they literally can’t force you… because at Bloomhunger you have 15k DPS with one comp, 25K DPS with perma alacrity… and the same build will give you 7K DPS at flame shaman.

Guilds right now just force you to use the “meta builds” and “meta comps” which were created based on fake math.

Making comps and builds based on real numbers and finally taking into consideration the mechanics of fights, which no one has done with math… is such a bad thing…

I’ve seen thousands of “meta or GTFO”, “READ OR KICK”, “META KNOW YOUR kitten” LFG groups for the past 2 years…

Having the a tool which will make people eventually realize that they can not play the game based on fake math which never resembles reality… thus they should stop kicking and discriminating and that playing full zerker melee vs a boss with perma prot, deadly AoE attacks and power invulnerability shield may not be such a good idea after all…

IS… WRONG… because you said so.

Q1: what build(s) do you use now, and where did you get them from ?
Q2: have you ever vote kicked another player out of a pug group, based on what ?

A1 i use full zerker, because thats give you the best dps. and it has been tested by time and thats what all top players use, and thats good enough for me!
A2 I have never kicked any player until after HOT release, I kicked players who obviously don’t have HOT, because I feel they can not contribute as much damage due to the lack of elite specialization, and I dont like people leeching (when they are playing for free and I have to pay 50 dollars!)

Exactly as i thought…

1. Berzerker does not give out the best DPS, and a damage meter would prove that in a day.
2. All of the spreadsheets are wrong, unless you want to tell me DPS uptime, perma protection, power invulnerability mechanics, dodge… and so on do not change the outcome of a fight at all, in which case… oh dear god…
3. Everything you think you know about the game, based on which you now kick other players… has been thought to you by the “self proclaimed top players” based on 100% fake math which no one can prove in reality

You play the game wrong, kick others who actually contribute… and are against the tool which would put an end to that.

Thank you for your contribution, that’s all i needed.

This individual also said “if you think Guild Wars 2 has an elitist community that kicks people and what not you are off your meds”, as if to further prove my point…

This is exactly why we need a personal damage meter.

I am too tired to argue, but I think some thing are best left as a mystery, maybe you are right maybe not, but we must not be selfish and just satisfy what is best for ourselves, we must think about the community, and everyone in that community.

My friend… if we had a personal damage meter, you would see with your own eyes that your maximum DPS vs bosses with heavy armor, perma prot, power invulnerability shields and deadly AoEs is only about 10% of what you get in other locations… therefor you really don’t need to struggle so much as a squishy zerker to achieve so little when you can much have so much more effectiveness with so much less effort by playing a condition build in that particular encounter.

Once you see that with your own eyes, next time a condition build player joins your party at that particular encounter, you will not kick him… in favor of another zerker with the same low effectiveness… you will be happy to see that condition using player.

Do you understand what i am saying ?

If we ever get a damage meter we’ll laugh together about how you use to struggle to achieve so little in some encounters when it could have been done so much more elegant.

I’m the guy who was mad enough to test the REAL DPS values of the meta builds so i’m one of the only people who actually knows what is what…

I hear what you said, and yes it would be nice to optimize every build for every fight! as a matter of fact I wish you the bets of luck, and if this link https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2xxdfo/gw2_dmg_meter/ is a real damage meter, you already got what u wanted, so why are we even arguing, you should go take a look at that link and I must go to sleep, good luck to you! Oh by the way I can see you are a very dedicated guild war 2 player and I really really do admire that from someone! I wish you best of luck and I mean no harm if I offended you in any way!

ZudetGambeous.9573:

FYI there is already a personal DPS meter for GW2 that is completely legal to use. It was part of Anets official Overwolf contest:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2xxdfo/gw2_dmg_meter/

I know of it… and the one which does memory reading.

The first one is not accurate when too many numbers flood the screen which renders it unreliable for condition builds.

The second one is illegal, also not always accurate and it doesn’t register the damage done vs targets in stealth at all… or so i’ve been told cough cough.

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Nemesis.8593:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Nemesis.8593:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Nemesis.8593:

Andraus.3874:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Citronvand.2837:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Arena net please don’t add a damage meter, this will only create elitism! I really don’t want this game to turn into wow!

Let me give you an example, in world of Warcraft there are raids, and in every raid there are will be failiure the first try! After each failure people start whining and blame each other, and in the end the raid lead is forced by everyone to boot the lowest dps, lowest heal. In all honesty 1 wipe is ok and just to boot people for 1 failure is just stupid I don’t want this game to turn into wow thank you!

Guild War 2 have the best community and the friendliest players I don’t want that to change. In all honesty I don’t mind carrying a bad player no matter how difficult the content is thank you!

Would you be against a personal damage meter that only you can see?

no! however that still have the potential to create elitism for example guilds forcing people to post their best dps!

Yes but why did we need another thread for this.

Yeah… force to post your DPS is so bad… especially since your DPS variate insanely based on your comp and encounter so they literally can’t force you… because at Bloomhunger you have 15k DPS with one comp, 25K DPS with perma alacrity… and the same build will give you 7K DPS at flame shaman.

Guilds right now just force you to use the “meta builds” and “meta comps” which were created based on fake math.

Making comps and builds based on real numbers and finally taking into consideration the mechanics of fights, which no one has done with math… is such a bad thing…

I’ve seen thousands of “meta or GTFO”, “READ OR KICK”, “META KNOW YOUR kitten” LFG groups for the past 2 years…

Having the a tool which will make people eventually realize that they can not play the game based on fake math which never resembles reality… thus they should stop kicking and discriminating and that playing full zerker melee vs a boss with perma prot, deadly AoE attacks and power invulnerability shield may not be such a good idea after all…

IS… WRONG… because you said so.

Q1: what build(s) do you use now, and where did you get them from ?
Q2: have you ever vote kicked another player out of a pug group, based on what ?

A1 i use full zerker, because thats give you the best dps. and it has been tested by time and thats what all top players use, and thats good enough for me!
A2 I have never kicked any player until after HOT release, I kicked players who obviously don’t have HOT, because I feel they can not contribute as much damage due to the lack of elite specialization, and I dont like people leeching (when they are playing for free and I have to pay 50 dollars!)

Exactly as i thought…

1. Berzerker does not give out the best DPS, and a damage meter would prove that in a day.
2. All of the spreadsheets are wrong, unless you want to tell me DPS uptime, perma protection, power invulnerability mechanics, dodge… and so on do not change the outcome of a fight at all, in which case… oh dear god…
3. Everything you think you know about the game, based on which you now kick other players… has been thought to you by the “self proclaimed top players” based on 100% fake math which no one can prove in reality

You play the game wrong, kick others who actually contribute… and are against the tool which would put an end to that.

Thank you for your contribution, that’s all i needed.

This individual also said “if you think Guild Wars 2 has an elitist community that kicks people and what not you are off your meds”, as if to further prove my point…

This is exactly why we need a personal damage meter.

I am too tired to argue, but I think some thing are best left as a mystery, maybe you are right maybe not, but we must not be selfish and just satisfy what is best for ourselves, we must think about the community, and everyone in that community.

My friend… if we had a personal damage meter, you would see with your own eyes that your maximum DPS vs bosses with heavy armor, perma prot, power invulnerability shields and deadly AoEs is only about 10% of what you get in other locations… therefor you really don’t need to struggle so much as a squishy zerker to achieve so little when you can much have so much more effectiveness with so much less effort by playing a condition build in that particular encounter.

Once you see that with your own eyes, next time a condition build player joins your party at that particular encounter, you will not kick him… in favor of another zerker with the same low effectiveness… you will be happy to see that condition using player.

Do you understand what i am saying ?

If we ever get a damage meter we’ll laugh together about how you use to struggle to achieve so little in some encounters when it could have been done so much more elegant.

I’m the guy who was mad enough to test the REAL DPS values of the meta builds so i’m one of the only people who actually knows what is what…

I hear what you said, and yes it would be nice to optimize every build for every fight! as a matter of fact I wish you the bets of luck, and if this link https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2xxdfo/gw2_dmg_meter/ is a real damage meter, you already got what u wanted, so why are we even arguing, you should go take a look at that link and I must go to sleep, good luck to you! Oh by the way I can see you are a very dedicated guild war 2 player and I really really do admire that from someone! I wish you best of luck and I mean no harm if I offended you in any way!

No worries, and sorry if i came off a bit strong in my replies to you… i just had to deal with a lot of trolls lately and my patience has kind of warn out.

Have a pleasant sleep.

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

A2 I have never kicked any player until after HOT release, I kicked players who obviously don’t have HOT, because I feel they can not contribute as much damage due to the lack of elite specialization, and I dont like people leeching (when they are playing for free and I have to pay 50 dollars!)

and so the champion of inclusiveness revealed himself. Thanks, that has been tremendously amusing. It´s always the same with a certain type of people.

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

A2 I have never kicked any player until after HOT release, I kicked players who obviously don’t have HOT, because I feel they can not contribute as much damage due to the lack of elite specialization, and I dont like people leeching (when they are playing for free and I have to pay 50 dollars!)

Wow .. just wow ..

This is so funny.

Yes for the dps meters, gearchecks, hell even player reviews. I want to know who exactly I am getting in my party (in-case I decide to PuG it). Nevermind, that wont happen.

You are assuming you will be able to group up with 9 random players and complete the raids?
How cute

Also you are quite delusional about elite specs. Some core builds contribute much better than elite specs.

Nephziel.6053:

This is so funny.

Yes for the dps meters, gearchecks, hell even player reviews. I want to know who exactly I am getting in my party (in-case I decide to PuG it). Nevermind, that wont happen.

You are assuming you will be able to group up with 9 random players and complete the raids?
How cute

Also you are quite delusional about elite specs. Some core builds contribute much better than elite specs.

that’s precisely the thing some builds might have a 15-20% self dps drop but make up for it by giving their whole team permanent might stacks or something so yes a dps meter would be bad cuz too many people are too pidgeonholed mentally and will ignore variables , for those that dont yes the dps meter will be a great asset but those aint many .

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

f they do make raid that hard then I quite!

Please do.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

They’ll just kick after the first wave of enemies, or the first boss.

It’s impractical to make someone take a screenshot, find the screenshot, upload it… and share it via voicecom/whatever after every boss… takes a good 1-2 minutes, a delay which may upset the other members of the group.

Only the worst type of elitists/wanna-be elitists would actually make such requests, and the majority of community will quickly single them out and avoid them.

As it stands now it’s the wanna-be elitists who make the singling out with the “ping gear”, “meta or kick” and so on… before even giving the player a chance.

Your fears are kind of unfounded.

Agree , the personal Damage meter is just a tool to help create a effective build " not a means to push damage to the max" though that is a preference rather than a requirement.

as a tool , it will simply allow people to make a build that will survive while not dealing crappy Active / Realistic damage , for them selfs to see.

with the rise of hybrid builds trying to Calculate damage (for those that are not adept at math) will be come vastly more Difficult that just Calcualting direct damage.

so i agree a personal (non-group) damage meter could be added as a personal tool , so these players can think for them selfs , then alter gear peice by piece to improve there own performance based on there skill level at that time.

rather than Googling best damage and buying said gear then progessing into dying every 40seconds. without the chance to improve personal skill beyond the classic kill it fast before i die , does not teaches those players " how to survive"

it;ll have its pros and cons.

the cons of having this meter, is people will ask for you to show damage but this will only cater to the Elitists " which they can load to there own website Keep it to themselfs away from the Working /casual community"

to that just means having maximum damage is only a Hardcore raid/guilds problem , then its upto the players to supersede themselfs, rather than pointing fingers at other players.

it gives everyone the choice to find out " are they doing enough to be effective without dying too much" or in a different view " Am i the one that is sucking" if they see they are only 1 or 3k a second .

from that they can conclude they are doing somthing wrong then improve instead of copying or De-constructing a so called meta build trying to get it to work for a lower skill level of play.
it will encourage progressive learning " but only if its a personal meter not veiwable to a group"

casual players have no means to judge for themselfs “if they are doing enough effective damage or acceptable damage”

if they had this option to see for themselfs , they can then make the judgement or decision to ether improve the dps they have or reduce the dps they have in aid for more support.

a better informed decision , a good example is " is this sigil of force Really worth it as i already do X amount i don;t really need it"

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Citronvand.2837:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

Arena net please don’t add a damage meter, this will only create elitism! I really don’t want this game to turn into wow!

Let me give you an example, in world of Warcraft there are raids, and in every raid there are will be failiure the first try! After each failure people start whining and blame each other, and in the end the raid lead is forced by everyone to boot the lowest dps, lowest heal. In all honesty 1 wipe is ok and just to boot people for 1 failure is just stupid I don’t want this game to turn into wow thank you!

Guild War 2 have the best community and the friendliest players I don’t want that to change. In all honesty I don’t mind carrying a bad player no matter how difficult the content is thank you!

Would you be against a personal damage meter that only you can see?

no! however that still have the potential to create elitism for example guilds forcing people to post their best dps!

at least then you can Decline that guild and join other , then if that does the same join a different one " those are not the kind of people i’d hang out with nor is a Guild based on community if all they care about is damage"

atleast a personal meter keeps it “personal” its only a problem for Eltist guilds or those that want to hardcore Raids .

and if you know you are doing enough soon enough that will change that persons views about classes and the Real damage they do, and because of the poor judgements people make and then blame others for a lack of damage " that is what creates Elitism"

if we did get a personal meter " atleast we’ll know its not Class X and we’ll know what we can do to improve our personal Effectiveness without having to join these Elitist guilds " .

" it creates choice and Control for the Average gamer"

while a Group damage meter is purely a Tool for Elitists to enforce their views.

Serophous.9085:

OnionXI.6735:

Serophous.9085:

And to add on, while the small minority of people will understand what the dps meter doesn’t measure, the majority will not, leading to all the problems.

Majority, minority, who knows. They would be the same people who think they’re pulling 15k dps in all situations despite what the numbers popping up on their screen are saying, because somebody came up with that number in a spreadsheet.

Dumb people are dumb, though I would argue it’s harder to be that dumb when you have your actual DPS up on the screen.

No, there is no “who knows”. We already do know. We can already look at WoW and see the impact of the dps meter. We can already enter into the game and I can bet you go into a pug group, someone will link their dps meter at the end of a dungeon or raid boss, and not care about what the healers did, or buffs, or anything and just focus on damage.

Who cares what they care about? I can group up with people in GW2 and they won’t care how much might I gave them but they’re thrilled when they see a big number pop up on their screen. We can go back and forth on this kind of crap all day.

And if we’re talking about other games, I would contend that Gearscore had a far more negative effect than anything Recount ever wrought. You seem to be mostly upset that people linked the meters into chat to show off, and didn’t acknowledge your contributions at the same time.

How about a game without damage meters like, oh, Final Fantasy XI; where the community decided Dragoons were terrible and it was almost impossible to level one because nobody would group with them. In reality Dragoon actually parsed pretty well but since that information wasn’t readily available the myth that “Dragoon sucks” lasted for a very long time, kind of like how “Necromancer sucks” is a thing in this game. In both cases it’s elitism born out of ignorance and trying to emulate top players.

Your whole use and misuse argument is pointless because people already misuse the Meta. I don’t see how having the tool available which would show the actual numbers people are getting could be a negative for PvE community at this point. On the contrary it may dispel some widely believed myths and make things a little better.

Uhm…….. Well…….lol

Uhm…….. Well…….lol

Uhm…….. Well…….lol

IAMANDLOVE-3095 is letting their personal biase from their past form his/her opinion on the matter. He/she refuses to see any of the “gray” area on this issue since it isn’t simply a black and white issue like many people are trying to make it out to be. So there’s really no point in arguing with this guy you aren’t going to be able to change their mind. So IAMANDLOVE thanks for your input and we get it, you’re totally against this. I’m sorry you’re unable to acknowledge the validity of the other side of the argument but it’s there regardless.

This thread lol. Kicking people for not having HoT? Really? This logic.

Damage meter can lead to elitism, but at the same time, GW2 is different in that each and every class can bring support to a group/raid besides Damage. If you’re not Berserk spec’d, or shooting for damage in general, then you need to try and excel in other areas of your class. Throw down them damage reducers, blocks, damage increasing aura’s, etc. That will be the way you can contribute to the raid/group. If you’re not adding anything besides auto-attacking, then yes I would like to know so I can tell you to add more to the party instead of riding on the coattails of everyone else busting there butt to achieve success.

1) While all set ups are situational, there will always be the “best” build for dungeon speed clears. And while they wont do as much dps as they are being “sold” to the comunity those builds are still the ones that hit the hardest and fastest and are the best when it comes to speed clears. Again, its all situational, and a burst meta build might not work so well on a enemy that stealth’s every now and then and spikes a player into downed state.

2) There is already elitism in the game. Have you ever been kicked out from a dungeon just cause youre not playing the most optimal build/profession that is needed for the dungeon speed clear? Yes you can create your own non speed clear dungeon party,but elitists don’t play “casual” runs…they go for speed clears, dont mix those 2 up

3) I will be refering again to the first thing i mentioned here. There will always be the best and most optimal build and party set up for content. The problem is, metabattle and dumb elitist think that 1 build and 1 setup can be the best and most optimal for ALL content, ALL dungeons, ALL fractals and in the future, ALL raid paths and encounters.
This is simply not true and will never be true. People need to learn to adapt their personal skill level, character build and gear with the content they are facing.
My guardian has bane signet, smite conditions and stand your ground.. but if im about to face a dungeon with plenty of deadly ranged mobs i WILL use wall of reflection.

1) Do people even understand what “math-in-a-void” means or are they all just copy pasting it form nemesis 3 part video how zerker meta is a lie? Also have they actually watched and understood all 3 parts of his videos and the 3 hour long group stream he had with brazil and others?

2)Different mobs have different health bars as well as armor and hit boxes. Bloomhunger has light armor and large hitbox making icebow super effective ,while the shaman has a smaller hit box and stronger armor. Even with the “nerf” the icebow got (it cant be bugged out anymore so that all ice shards fall on the target regardless of the hitbox) the icebow is still a great thing to have if you want to burst a ton of dmg on the boss.

3)“We” dont need a damage meter cause “we” dont care about the few specific boss encounters that the elite people are trying to figure out whats the most 110% most optimal and most efficient profession/build/rotation/party set up to drop it dead…

4) There is not a single party/profession/build set up that can be the most optimal and efficient in all dungeon paths, all fractals, all up coming and future raids as well as all general pve content and there will never be one

5) The reason why the dmg people show off is wrong is cause again, its all situational. The same necro, warrior,engie ,ele or ranger can have 1 number shown on bloomhunger, another on mossman, and a 3rd one on shaman. And its perfectly fine cause all 3 encounters are very different from eachother

6) If nemesis would stop being so arrogant and full of him self,and stopped running in circles cause of his past issues with some other youtubers, and started “caring” for the community then he should start working on his " meta tier system" that he promised .
Where he will categorize different dungeons,fractals and raids into several different tiers.
Content in tier 1 would be done most efficiently with burst builds such as showering the boss with 4 icebows,hundread blades and time warps.
Content in tier 2 would be done most efficiently with high sustain damage such as conditions that tick even tho you got downed, or even tho the boss went stealth and the “raw” dmg professions have nothing to hit,loosing dps
Content in tier 3 would be done most efficiently with a well coordinated and balanced team and build set up. Why? Cause the content will have different mechanics and enviroment that will hinder people from doing the usual things they do in speed runs.
Examples: Stacking in a corner is punished with enviromental traps and ccs such as fears, pulls and knock ups. Cant use burst set ups cause the boss has super high armor, or becomes invincible every now and then. Cant go full condi set up cause the boss clenses him self often, or transfers his conditions to players

AND THE WORST PROBLEM IS: After 3 years, and after everyone has done dungeons and fractals sooooo many times with numerous different professions, people still havent learned that they should modify their builds depending on the situation youre about to face… And they need someone like nemesis to point that out, hold their hands and tell them what to do,what class,what gear and when and what skills to use on what boss…. its a tragedy

I find the argument that a DPS meter would induce exclusivity and elitism rather odd, considering how the whole complaint is that a lack of a DPS meter resulted in the community extrapolating spreadsheet DPS values to the entire PVE system. Most people have seen the stuff in LFG;

Suppose that the truth had always been that DPS values were more variable within classes but less variable between classes then the spreadsheet calculations could estimate.

If we assume that Arenanet knows what it’s doing and did not noticeably imbalance the classes. And if we assume that HOT/fractal encounters are sufficiently diverse to justify a wide variety of build configurations, then the two main determinants of what makes one player more effective then another will be the encounter (Which will advantage one build over another), and the player’s skill. Any internally calculated DPS values should reflect this fact better than the popular alternatives.

Provided, that is, that internally calculated DPS values are not shown to players and then extrapolated across the entire PVE spectrum (both in terms of how long the fights last and what is going on during those fights)

I personally would prefer instead of a meter which gives damage per second, instead give some sort of encounter based diagnostic. I.E. a program that reads player damage/healing only for specific instances in PVE content.

So During an encounter a calculator keeps track of the following information and saves it once the encounter has finished:

1) Encounter Duration
2) Damage Dealt ( #2 / #1 gives you your encounter specific DPS)
3) Damage Received
4) Damage Mitigated
5) Healing

If players wanted to advertise a particular DPS for a particular build, the diagnosic would be headed with the specific encounter which produced the damage and the encounter duration.

What would be even better is, since the encounters are standardized, players could access data on all diagnostics for all players on a particular encounter. You wouldn’t just get an average matrix of values but a range of values.

You could also make it so that any time a party entered a raid all of the numbers above were recorded both at a party wide and profession specific level, with the duration being equal to the amount of time the raid takes, such numbers would be recorded automatically when the raid begins. This wouldn’t give you DPS values but it would measure overall effectiveness of a particular party.

Even better still is this also tells us how much time you actually save in an encounter by picking a particular class configuration. People won’t

The key here are two assumptions. One is that Arenanet balanced the game properly, two is that the data they provide players is presented accurately and in such a way that it does not mislead players. You’ll get elitism if 1. The game is not properly balanced and accurate data shows this 2. The game is properly balanced but data is inaccurate and doesn’t show this.

It’s wrong to think players won’t try getting and comparing data one way or another. If Anet wants to avoid elitism it should forgo trying to prohibit such comparisons and instead nudge the community to make more ‘fair’ comparisons.

masterJP.5048:

Uhm…….. Well…….lol

Yes because ANet will be totally okay to have 5 thousand posts occurring each time a raid get’s organized.

Vukorep.3081:

1) Do people even understand what “math-in-a-void” means or are they all just copy pasting it form nemesis 3 part video how zerker meta is a lie? Also have they actually watched and understood all 3 parts of his videos

Were videos 2 and 3 nonsensical ramblings riddled with bad math like the first one? The first one was legitimately ridiculous, especially when it came to his methods/measurements.

As for a DPS meter, I want them in the game. I’ve never seen them “introduce elitism” or really mean much besides being a way to measure yourself against others and possibly correct your performance if it’s lackluster. That being said, I see nothing wrong with booting people from a part if they aren’t contributing. Anyone with any sense (read that as any you would actually want to raid with) will be able to realize that you bring other things to the table even if your DPS is somewhat low if you’re actually doing so.

I actually saw some improvement myself from using a DPS meter; back in the day when I hit 55 in Allods I thought I was hot kitten, even though I was awful. A couple days of work at rotations/situational skill usage and I went from being a hugely subpar DPS to a top 1-2 DPS in the party while easily being able to offtank if needed (as a physical DPS Paladin).

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Zero Day.2594:

IAMANDLOVE.3095:

because there are many things a rare view mirrior just like a dps meter cant measure.
quote from paxthegreatone
A DPS meter doesn’t measure:
fraction of DPS not related to personal play (by booning banners, or buffs),
heals or reductions of dmg taken keeping people up or
resses (will it lower DPS due to dead/downstate, or just stop measuring giving a false number
combo’s and comparables
outgoing conditions, and cleans
interrupts keeping you or them from getting killed.
DOT or effective DOT
Average DPS/Time
and thus:
A value easily interpreted wrong when narrowminded

Yes when narrow minded.

“fraction of DPS not related to personal play (by booning banners, or buffs),”
- Hmm my dps was 21k with that warrior, without that warrior it’s at 15k… I wonder…

yes this one is easy but was it the warrior, or was it another player with a firefield, or the revenant, or influence of an elementalist, mesmer, or ranger??

“heals or reductions of dmg taken keeping people up or”
- DPS meters often include a heal meter as well.

And how would you interpret the heal contributing to dps? secondly casting the heal will lower DPS, the fact people receive it (or not) due to persoanl movement could influence values a lot.

“resses (will it lower DPS due to dead/downstate, or just stop measuring giving a false number”
- Get your kitten in order, Ress’ing someone > personal DPS. Since once the person is ress’ed you as a group will produce more DPS than you not ress’ing him and continuing to DPS. BUT if you can’t understand that, or when that’s appropriate to do, it’s on you.

Yes when facerubbing the ground you do not do any dmg, but the speed of ressing (warrior vs others/runes of mercy and so on) could give a big change in DPS uptime and effectiveness…

“combo’s and comparables”
- Hmm I did 21k with that warrior putting down a fire field, but now that warrior isn’t putting down a fire field… I wonder…

luckily you forget water/blast (heals), toxic/blast (weakness), light/blast retaliation, fire/whirl (burning stacks), chaosarmor, firearmor and so on… combo’s are more then just might, yes might will give more DPS, you you haave any idea’s how much damage a firewhirl does when executed well? or when you have fast attacks on you firearmor

“outgoing conditions, and cleans”
- What? you’re saying the DPS meter won’t keep track of conditions? As for the cleans, that was never part of the judgment even in WoW. If damage was to be scarficed in order to keep the group alive, so be it. Hell in WoW it was a whole dedicated role that didn’t do (significant) damage.

conditions could be nice but DOT/DPS through conditions could be very influentual
weakness, vulnerability blind will help your party, but sometimes will not add to damage at all. Even though they might have been influential to your party.

“interrupts keeping you or them from getting killed.”
- Like wise, WoW had mechanics where you need to press a button or something to not cause a wipe, it was accepted that people would do that – and of course the dps numbers would be lower.

Well interupts and the ability to break a breakbar are said to be very important, certain builds do not have much ability for breaking the bar, or only a limited amount…

“DOT or effective DOT”
- Conditions again? Pretty sure it, if implemented properly can keep track of that. Damage over time in general – isn’t that what a dps meter is? Damage per second – or Damage per time unit.

Well DOT is nice, stacking 15 burning and seeing 8k might be nice but if it only ticks 1 or 2 times the effect could be insignificant, either due to low uptime or fast cleansing, also the average duration could be nice and the % interupted/removed

“Average DPS/Time”
- What? Again, once you have the real damage number, you can slice and dice it anyway you like. Damage over seconds, Damage over 10 minutes, damage over 10 years. Average damage of 10 fights… You just need to know the numbers, which the damage meter can provide, given how it’s implemented.

DPS/s = burst spike, DPS/ period = average DPS per segment (during broken bars/or under x conditions/boons (if you can see it, preferably in graph), DPS/engagement overal combined DPS witout indvidual numers…..jut ask all values and you could work our dps/person… if the raid leader would combine this you could get actual values and/or untrue values… only requirement would be the actual hp estimate of the boss…

And at the end of it all, with a personal dps meter – only you will see it and only you will be judging yourself if you will/want to.

And if you would give this value to others your % effectiveness could be calculated, without any relevant other figures… also if you did say 8 or 9% of needed dps in a 10 ppl group would you be willing to tell, would you when you got 12 or 15%?

Understand if 4 ppl brag they did 60% together the other 6 would have been doing 6.667% on average, maybe some did actually do 10% then the values of the remaining players would drop even more….

Just having the numbers will mean some will use it to brag… also showing others are more likely NOT on the positive side….

Every kitten number in game, every occurrence of something, every event of something, EVERYTHING can be tracked. Then the relevant numbers can be used in the dps meter. And don’t let the Damage in the dps meter make you think it can’t track healing or boon counts or other things you’ve mentioned…. It can go as complex (not really complex) as how much damage you did due to combing off a X field. Number of resses vs downs. Come up with numbers required and they can be produced. Everything can be tracked within the game.

(This isn’t a world created by the unknown (god? big bang theory?) – this is a software created by people. People that have created it have the power to do whatever they want.)

Logical things like mechanic’s lowering dps or the need to res lowering dps, either the group accept that – or they’re idiots. Pretty simple, if they can’t prioritize things correctly, yet enforce certain DPS metrics – lol, they’re not elitist, they’re dumbases.

Nemesis.8593:

“Play however you want” is not even close to being true anymore…

We… need… a damage/support meter.

A damage meter wouldn’t help with that.

What we need is an “All’s well that ends well” nerf.

In the chronomancer Point of Interest they specifically stated that they were very wary of giving significant alacrity sharing because of how powerful the buff was when placed on classes other than the chronomancer themself, only to end up pulling a complete 180 turn on it when they reworked “All’s well that ends well” to the point where it can reliably give close to 100% alacrity uptime with a well build.

It’s really annoying how one dimensional chronomancer has become in PvE because of it, oh, and welcome back to the forums.

Bump to keep this discussion going.

I’d like an easy way to find out how much damage I did just out of curiosity tbh..

I get why people are bitter about damage meters though
and while there are a lot of points etc being argued for and against etc there really is a very simple solution here..

Avoid elitism.. it’s really quite that simple..

if we had a dps meter it would change nothing for me..
I refuse to play with elitist players anyway..
If I want to run dungeons or fractals I just make my own group.. add all welcome to the description and usually within seconds I have a party..

not only that.. my party is almost always capable and efficient and we have fun
but best of all.. we are like minded.. everyone is welcome.. nobody criticizes..
people understand that’s the attitude expected when joining a all welcome group

the meta joke is in a lot of ways dying..
a few days ago I sat and watched a lfg for Ascalon catacombs I believe it was.. just because there was one person with a LFG 80 ZERK/EXP ONLY!! who just could not get a party..
there were plenty of other requests coming and going.. some with all welcome.. some looking for story etc.. but not this guy..
I sat there watching for about 5-8 mins.. nobody joined his party.. and then he give up and pulled his LFG

what the elitists don’t seem to realize is that as Gw2 grows in playerbase.. they become more and more a minority..
and there are a lot of people in the game now that just don’t want to play with these LFG 80 ZERK/EXP ONLY!! groups..

and for the most part.. most elitist players have got friends or guildmates who they regularly run this content with anyway so we are seeing them less and less in the LFG

I REALLY don’t understand why people are so against DPS meters. if you’re worried about having terrible low DPS and getting kicked maybe you should IMPROVE instead of whining about it.

If you want to run your “any build” raids and fracts then go ahead, but don’t force yourself on the rest of us. You’re literally hurting everyone around you when you sneak into groups that want to have fast runs and that’s just selfish. call us elitists all you want, idgaf because you are a hindrance and you make the game worse for everyone around you.

We should have a way to avoid having these people in our groups.

I am all for personal dps meters. Nothing wrong with knowing the actual numbers without having do copious amounts of math to figure out good rotations/builds. It would also put spreadsheet math to bed which would be nice.

The issue I would have with dps meters is how people will use it as a crutch for meta enforcing. Anet needs to start policing these players, as they have no right to tell people how to play. In my opinion its only on group of players that do this. Today in my eyes we have four types of players:

• Hardcore elites: which are about playing the game at the highest level and enjoy it there. Totally fine.
• Softcore Elites :Which play at high level but play to enjoy them selves. Again totally fine
• Hardcore Casuals: Which play at a low level, but enjoy the high level atmosphere.
• Softcore Casuals :Which play at lower level and just enjoy the game. Totally fine.

In my experience the all of the groups except one all either have a form of understanding to either play together or avoid each other. The Hardcore Casual is the exception to this rule. They insert them selves in every situation and act like a boil; spewing puss on everything. The moment you call them out on not playing to standard they spew and the moment they see someone else not meeting their bar they spew. These are your people that are going to be trying to enforce meta, kicking for not having enough dps, spewing non-sense and generally making everyones else’s game play less enjoyable. It needs to stop.

Here’s another fun thing…

There’s already a dps meter in game, a very basic one. In sPvP, upon death you can see how long it took to kill you and what skills (along with damage) has killed you…

Eval.2371:

I am all for personal dps meters. Nothing wrong with knowing the actual numbers without having do copious amounts of math to figure out good rotations/builds. It would also put spreadsheet math to bed which would be nice.

The issue I would have with dps meters is how people will use it as a crutch for meta enforcing. Anet needs to start policing these players, as they have no right to tell people how to play. In my opinion its only on group of players that do this. Today in my eyes we have four types of players:

• Hardcore elites: which are about playing the game at the highest level and enjoy it there. Totally fine.
• Softcore Elites :Which play at high level but play to enjoy them selves. Again totally fine
• Hardcore Casuals: Which play at a low level, but enjoy the high level atmosphere.
• Softcore Casuals :Which play at lower level and just enjoy the game. Totally fine.

In my experience the all of the groups except one all either have a form of understanding to either play together or avoid each other. The Hardcore Casual is the exception to this rule. They insert them selves in every situation and act like a boil; spewing puss on everything. The moment you call them out on not playing to standard they spew and the moment they see someone else not meeting their bar they spew. These are your people that are going to be trying to enforce meta, kicking for not having enough dps, spewing non-sense and generally making everyones else’s game play less enjoyable. It needs to stop.

I doubt Anet can compel players to keep other player’s in their party.

I’m all in for a personal statistic meter. But I’d want it to actually give me various informations on how many condi I cleansed, separate power / condi dmg (or both added up), heal, how many damage I’ve taken, how many I would’ve taken with no armor / boons, etc. I’d like it to give as much informations as possible.

There is one fact, this tool would help me improve my playstyle based on effectiveness of these playstyles. Because I sometimes am not sure wether I am underperforming or the team is underperforming. And there’s that I sometimes am maybe changing my playstyle when it was actually good enough for what I was doing.

As long as it’s personal, who cares?

Half of you are too hard headed to see OP said PERSONAL Dps meter, Whats wrong with having something to compare your own data with. If you’re someone who wants to improve to actually know your own personal numbers could be a viable thing to know. If I did this much this time but less the next well maybe i can improve and do better, Nowhere did anyone say that they needed or even wanted everyone to see everyone elses numbers. Personal meters are not harmful because you dont have to share the bloody information if you so please but would still allow people to have a base number they can use to test damage and their own personal dps levels. You people wanting to turn it into a soap opera debate over your thoughts on how this or that could ruin the game not thinking about how it could easily be implemented to fit both ideas. Sometimes the stinkin answer isnt no or yes but somewhere inbetween. what if you had to answer every quetion in your life with a yes or no answer. where would you be.

I’m for having a PERSONAL output and throughput meter in-game. It’s NOT about being an elitist jerk, it’s about wanting to know what else I can do to improve my performance, based on empirical evidence.

The combat log already has the groundwork for it, all they need to do is add as a toggle in the UI.

If you’re so scared of being singled out, then why not have a meter for the whole group or raid, wherein everyone’s stats are added in? How about an end of run summary for power damage/condition damage/healing/downs/boon uptime/condition uptime/condition removal/boon removal?

Sure lets bring one in, wont really fix any of the other glaring issues of the game that they could, hopefully but probably never, work on anyway.