Guild Wars 2

Lord Kuru.3685:

Here’s a guess that fits with a lot of Anet’s behavior:

Someone at or near the top of Anet’s hierarchy has tunnel vision and judges success or failure using metrics from (only) the LS. Those who wish to keep their jobs have incentive to pump up LS metrics as high as possible, regardless of how it affects the game. One easy way to do this: do not work on or release content that are not LS related.

As I recall from an off-official-channels post by one of the devs involved, the metrics for SAB World 2 were terrible, which I imagine is why we’re never going to see it again. It’s just not worth their while to put development resources into something a very small percentage of the player base are likely to be interested in.

No idea why they don’t just turn it back on with a satirical Coming Soon™ no entry sign on worlds 3 and 4 mind you, but then I guess the all-controlling marketing department wouldn’t be able to spin that very well so they’d prefer to just abandon it.

Aly Cat.9415:

Of the group that enjoyed SAB, most seemed to flood the forums with nothing but complaints about is so I think players brought this on themselves.

Look at any forum for any game sub-mode (PvP, WvW, activities when applicable) and you will find an endless string of complaints. Does that mean those modes should be removed? Hardly. No matter what content you create, in any game, some people will complain about it. There will also be some people who love that content. There may even be overlap between those groups. The fact that people complain about a game mode is really neither here nor there as far as a meaningful indicator about whether or not it should exist – it’s just an inevitable fact.

Introduce new worlds whenever, old worlds are there for all. Why lock away fun from your game, seriously?

sMihaly.1492:

@Becka
My favovite part of the game was WvW. sPvP could be enjoyable too. But … many offtopic reasons.
You said well, we are bored, and we want to play the hell out of SAB.

Then you’d play the hell out if, and be bored. Lemme ask you a question. Suppose anet had made SAB permanent last September. Would you still be playing it, a year on? Would you be asking anet to add world 3? Would you be complaining you were bored? I bet you would be.

I bet if they gave into these demands, there would be a few annoying bugs, and they wouldn’t be fixed for a long while.

But when Super Adventure Box comes at the end of the season, a bunch of forum’ers will go “TrashNet taking forever to listen to their loyal players. Now when I get back from my five-month vacation with my family, it better still be there!”

I’m asking for a refund, no sense in paying for something I can only use when they tell me. Skins can be used whenever, harvest tools whenever, music instruments whenever, infinity coin, lol whatevs noob.

I could live with them never expanding SAB but I cannot accept never being able to play it again. It should be permanent and if it was permanent in the first place there wouldn’t have been a problem to begin with…

Aguri.2896:

I could live with them never expanding SAB but I cannot accept never being able to play it again. It should be permanent and if it was permanent in the first place there wouldn’t have been a problem to begin with…

if it was permanent in the first place, you’d be bored with it by now.

Becka Williams.4978:

sMihaly.1492:

@Becka
My favovite part of the game was WvW. sPvP could be enjoyable too. But … many offtopic reasons.
You said well, we are bored, and we want to play the hell out of SAB.

Then you’d play the hell out if, and be bored. Lemme ask you a question. Suppose anet had made SAB permanent last September. Would you still be playing it, a year on? Would you be asking anet to add world 3? Would you be complaining you were bored? I bet you would be.

No more than other stuff that has not changed in 2 years I guess ?

I can’t say I’m surprised at all. SAB World 2 was the one piece of content that really was created somewhat collaboratively with the players. It was the one thing that’s been developed where the lead developer actually enjoyed discussing the content with players and made appropriate changes based directly on feedback. ANet doesn’t so that anymore so it’s pretty easy to see why they don’t consider SAB fitting in any more.

Becka Williams.4978:

So, they bring back SAB. You guys play the hell out of it. And then you complain that it never changes, and you’re bored, and why won’t anet bring out world 3. Then you come to the forums, and complain that anet’s ignoring your favorite part of the game. Oh wait, that’s already happening.

Umm IDK if you know this but THE WHOLE GAME IS LIKE THIS.

PvP, 1 GAME MODE!!!!!!!!! the pvp community DOES WANT MORE, SAME 4 tpvp maps FOR 2 YEARS!

PvE, SAME 8 Dungeons for 2 YEARS!

Why should you (In you reasons) not let players have sab when other parts of the games work the same way?

Yeah this whole “you’d be bored with it” thing makes no sense. How exactly is increasing game variety going to make boredom more of a problem? Most of us would play it occasionally if it was permanent, just like the rest of the content. Apart from the hardcore few who get all the trib mode skins in the first few weeks, there would basically always be a reason to go back for a couple of runs.

Heck, if they’d actually taken it seriously and added a time trial mode and a weekly/monthly/permanent leaderboard people would be playing it long term.

Becka Williams.4978:

Aguri.2896:

I could live with them never expanding SAB but I cannot accept never being able to play it again. It should be permanent and if it was permanent in the first place there wouldn’t have been a problem to begin with…

if it was permanent in the first place, you’d be bored with it by now.

You mean like the 8 pve dungeons, or the 1 pvp game mode, or even yet the 4 tpvp maps? I mean I only played 4 MAPS for 2 YEARS that have (IMO) less content than all of SAB, and we still play those dungeons and pvp maps daily.

StriderShinryu.6923:

I can’t say I’m surprised at all. SAB World 2 was the one piece of content that really was created somewhat collaboratively with the players. It was the one thing that’s been developed where the lead developer actually enjoyed discussing the content with players and made appropriate changes based directly on feedback. ANet doesn’t so that anymore so it’s pretty easy to see why they don’t consider SAB fitting in any more.

Yeah, I LOVED the interaction over SAB world 2. Its probably the best PR I’ve ever seen from ANet since starting, and it encouraged me to buy gems.

To my knowledge the guy who did it got in trouble for it

Becka Williams.4978:

if it was permanent in the first place, you’d be bored with it by now.

So what? I don’t get this statement. EVERYTHING gets boring, but having it in the game all the time would mean I can go back to doing it WHENEVER I WANT. I wouldn’t have had to play SAB for a month straight burning myself out since I knew it was going to be gone afterward.

We wouldn’t want the community splintered….lets turn off pvp, wvw, dungeons, all maps but dry top……

Gnat.9405:

There is no confirmation that SAB is definitely not returning, which I would suspect be the only case in which support is going to even open your email.

Now watch, as no one pays attention to that.
I had to hammer someone in-game with question after question, most of them repeats, before they would acknowledge that they didn’t have all the facts and were incorrect. I can’t stomach fear mongering.

Boneheart.3561:

Gnat.9405:

There is no confirmation that SAB is definitely not returning, which I would suspect be the only case in which support is going to even open your email.

Now watch, as no one pays attention to that.
I had to hammer someone in-game with question after question, most of them repeats, before they would acknowledge that they didn’t have all the facts and were incorrect. I can’t stomach fear mongering.

I cant stomach anet not giving any real information but instead explaining things in a way to manifest fear. Instead of rewording it to make players understand there are certain things they wish to get done before adding these other features back into the game or creating new ones.

Simply put, Anet chose to give bad news when in reality if said in a different way would give hope and joy.

I shared this on Reddit, but I wanted to join in with the voices on the forums to show my solidarity and disappointment. The level of over concern to the integrity of the LS needs to not, as a consequence, narrow the opportunities available to expand on the other parts of the game that folks have been clamoring for. Their perceived silliness or importance aside, if ANet was genuine in it’s intent to listen and communicate with players, they would be a more visible presence on the forums and in social media (like their MMO counterparts at other companies). This isn’t just with LS or SAB, but we see this reflected in the BLTC as well. There is a dozens of pages long thread of people wanting to throw money at ANet, and instead we get Zephyr Dye Packs. There is a disappointing culture dynamic that has changed and is impacting the game and the community, IMHO.

…but let’s focus on just the impact of the LS…

So far, we have not seen two “festivals” come back: dragon bash and now SAB. I feel that both of these could have been easily incorporated into the LS.

1.) Dragon Bash – The dragon bash is held again in LA. Maybe with the help of the Zephyrites and to continue to their efforts to promote and revitalize the city after Scarlet’s devastating attack. Much like real life acts of terrorism, there is no bigger middle finger to those that initiated the attack than to show that normal life continues on despite their efforts. While the PC and DE 2.0, might have concerns about a looming dragon attack (The Roar Heard Round the World), the people of Tyria still find solace and celebration in the defeat of Zhaitan. The world leaders gather to do PR and further the “life goes on” narrative only to be attacked by Mordremoth’s minions. This is the kick off and the story moves into investigative mode. The Zephyrites could still flee only to be attacked and much of the story remains the same.

It could also become the running “gag” of GW2 if you will that the Dragon Bash is cursed. Much like the tact taken by JK Rowling with the Defense Against the Dark Arts position.

2.) Super Adventure Box – We know very little about Moto’s past and his motives behind creating the SAB other than it is a device that alters our perception of reality or our consciousness in some way. Where have we seen another device like this? Omadd’s machine. Maybe Moto and Omadd used to be Krewe mates studying the limits of immersing the mind or enhancing its ability to perceive. They had a falling out and Moto went one way, while Omadd went the other. Using the SAB provides us with insight into Omadd’s machine and it’s purpose as it relates to Moto’s machine.

Maybe Moto went into Omadd’s machine even before Scarlet because he was on the Krewe? Maybe Moto knows some thing that he can’t communicate effectively (sort of like an Asura version of autism caused by Omadd’s machine) outside of this virtual construct? He is trying to help us understand what he knows, but playing the game is the only way we can discover what is going on. Maybe he sabotaged the other Krewe’s device to prevent them from creating another horrible machine like Omadds? This would certainly be a more interesting way to learn about Omadd and his machine vs. clicking through somewhat hamfisted dialog with Taimi.

Regardless, this whole thing stinks, IMHO. I can’t wrap my head around how decisions like this are being made at ANet recently. Compound that with the minimal or complete lack of effective community outreach and communication and I am not sure how I feel personally.

VincentDW.9376:

Aly Cat.9415:

Of the group that enjoyed SAB, most seemed to flood the forums with nothing but complaints about is so I think players brought this on themselves.

Look at any forum for any game sub-mode (PvP, WvW, activities when applicable) and you will find an endless string of complaints. Does that mean those modes should be removed? Hardly. No matter what content you create, in any game, some people will complain about it. There will also be some people who love that content. There may even be overlap between those groups. The fact that people complain about a game mode is really neither here nor there as far as a meaningful indicator about whether or not it should exist – it’s just an inevitable fact.

PvP and WvW are part of the core game. Those parts have to be retained and improved upon. SAB was an unrelated gag that blow up into something more. As I said, the amount of resources SAB required and the amount of negativity it generated likely outweighed how many people a) played it and b) liked it. There are multiple factors. They probably have matrices of how many people play and what they do when they play. That provides more information than the small amount of forum posters do.

I’m just saying that it’s a little late now for people to say they will be happy with it as is when there was so much vocal disappointment last time. Those people may be content with that, but there will be plenty of players who won’t settle with anything less than more/better, and that particular project may not be worth the effort it would take, especially at the expense of the core game.

…and we had a lot of fun playing portions of it, but it’s difficult to fit in within the narrative structure that we have now and I think that makes it very much less likely that it will appear in a Living World season going forward.

Well going by this logic good bye WvWvW and sPvP.
Geez, I liked SAB for the diversion it is.
Stop trying to kill the fun mini-games, they don’t threaten the story!

Faux.1937:

Boneheart.3561:

Gnat.9405:

There is no confirmation that SAB is definitely not returning, which I would suspect be the only case in which support is going to even open your email.

Now watch, as no one pays attention to that.
I had to hammer someone in-game with question after question, most of them repeats, before they would acknowledge that they didn’t have all the facts and were incorrect. I can’t stomach fear mongering.

I cant stomach anet not giving any real information but instead explaining things in a way to manifest fear. Instead of rewording it to make players understand there are certain things they wish to get done before adding these other features back into the game or creating new ones.

Simply put, Anet chose to give bad news when in reality if said in a different way would give hope and joy.

I don’t think anyone’s afraid Super Adventure Box isn’t showing up when they want it. Demanding refunds, being surprised by vague answers, this is more akin to a tantrum.

I wonder what the demographic would be like for Super Adventure Box in China.

ConfusedDave.4271:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Here’s a guess that fits with a lot of Anet’s behavior:

Someone at or near the top of Anet’s hierarchy has tunnel vision and judges success or failure using metrics from (only) the LS. Those who wish to keep their jobs have incentive to pump up LS metrics as high as possible, regardless of how it affects the game. One easy way to do this: do not work on or release content that are not LS related.

As I recall from an off-official-channels post by one of the devs involved, the metrics for SAB World 2 were terrible, which I imagine is why we’re never going to see it again. It’s just not worth their while to put development resources into something a very small percentage of the player base are likely to be interested in.

No idea why they don’t just turn it back on with a satirical Coming Soon™ no entry sign on worlds 3 and 4 mind you, but then I guess the all-controlling marketing department wouldn’t be able to spin that very well so they’d prefer to just abandon it.

Yep, he said the numbers was dismal according to stats they ran.
I think he also summarized (in the SAB subforum, I think) that world 2 needed to be reworked if it was ever released again due to numerous complaints (one was regarding the length of a single map was too long and would need to be broken down into smaller pieces).
Since they aren’t doing any further development, it’s unlikely they’ll rework the existing content, so it’s better to just assume the whole project is axed for a long time.

Boneheart.3561:

Faux.1937:

Boneheart.3561:

Gnat.9405:

There is no confirmation that SAB is definitely not returning, which I would suspect be the only case in which support is going to even open your email.

Now watch, as no one pays attention to that.
I had to hammer someone in-game with question after question, most of them repeats, before they would acknowledge that they didn’t have all the facts and were incorrect. I can’t stomach fear mongering.

I cant stomach anet not giving any real information but instead explaining things in a way to manifest fear. Instead of rewording it to make players understand there are certain things they wish to get done before adding these other features back into the game or creating new ones.

Simply put, Anet chose to give bad news when in reality if said in a different way would give hope and joy.

I don’t think anyone’s afraid Super Adventure Box isn’t showing up when they want it. Demanding refunds, being surprised by vague answers, this is more akin to a tantrum.

I wonder what the demographic would be like for Super Adventure Box in China.

My comment had nothing to do with refunds at all, I have no opinions about refunds atm. But it wasnt the Vague answers, it was how they were worded, You can give a vague answer and still make it sound positive and hopeful.

Edgar Doiron.2804:

I wonder if we can get a refund on the infinite coin?

This is all that needs to be said ArenaNet. You charged money for a thing that was supposed to be recurring content. You can’t ditch content when it comes to micro-transactions. Also, if the dev was being coy and there is a new SAB coming soon, why do the interview?

SAB is coming back, just not right now = SAB is never coming back!
Stop this pointless whining, it’s embarrassing. They can’t just make a world 3 magically appear out of nowhere! And for those wanting a refund for that infinite coin, you knew it was temporary content.

ConfusedDave.4271:

…the metrics for SAB World 2 were terrible, which I imagine is why we’re never going to see it again.

Closing it down instead of addressing the reason for the bad showing is great.
Was considering getting the Continue Coin mainly for red or purple weapons, glad I held off. Thought it was really odd that SAB didn’t come back in april even just with the old worlds.

So the blue weapons on the trading post are gunna go up in price now? Was eyeing the mace.. oh dang many skins are over 100g.

Becka Williams.4978:

Aguri.2896:

I could live with them never expanding SAB but I cannot accept never being able to play it again. It should be permanent and if it was permanent in the first place there wouldn’t have been a problem to begin with…

if it was permanent in the first place, you’d be bored with it by now.

You keep saying this, and it keeps not being a valid argument.

Gyler.8150:

I’m asking for a refund, no sense in paying for something I can only use when they tell me. Skins can be used whenever, harvest tools whenever, music instruments whenever, infinity coin, lol whatevs noob.

I have a support booster…

Preyar.6783:

SAB is coming back, just not right now = SAB is never coming back!
Stop this pointless whining, it’s embarrassing. They can’t just make a world 3 magically appear out of nowhere! And for those wanting a refund for that infinite coin, you knew it was temporary content.

They will always say “it might be back” even if it takes 10 years to come back, that might will always be there for 1 simply reason, Money. If they said no more SAB they will have to refund the Coins.

RIP SAB. Almost a year later, my kid still asks when we can play “the jumping game” again.

W2 had its problems, sure. I have no doubt this decision was based on the metrics, which were likely terrible when (a) 2-1 was broken at launch and (b) 2-2 so long that it desperately needed to be broken into two different levels.

Hopefully they will decide to turn the box on and let us enjoy what already exists. Until then, SAB, you will be missed.

Aly Cat.9415:

I’m just saying that it’s a little late now for people to say they will be happy with it as is when there was so much vocal disappointment last time. Those people may be content with that, but there will be plenty of players who won’t settle with anything less than more/better, and that particular project may not be worth the effort it would take, especially at the expense of the core game.

The disappointment last time was due to some changes that were not well-received (mainly in length and difficulty). Many concerns were actually fixed in the first week.

More importantly, it isn’t a little late. People have been asking for SAB to come back for months.

I never liked Super Adventure Box… but why is it gone?

Let me tell you, I really feel for the SAB fans. Is there a reason you can’t enjoy content you like? I don’t imagine you care whether or not there’s a part 3 out, do you? You should be able to play parts 1 and 2 anytime you like. It’s mystifying. It’s even worse than making the various Activities (Keg Brawl, Southsun Survival, etc.) available only on certain days.

I don’t like SAB, but I say open it up and keep it open! Variety is the spice of life. The game could use a little spicing up about now.

EDIT: Nuts. They merged my thread. I hate it when they do that.

Thank you. Seriously. This post made my day brighter. You are a good person, and you should feel good.

Seriously, guys. Just chill. I read the interview and nothing is mentioned in verbatim indicating that SAB is not going to come back. I am confident it will come back eventually. Perhaps around mid-season or near the end of the season, who knows?

Malkavian.4516:

Seriously, guys. Just chill. I read the interview and nothing is mentioned in verbatim indicating that SAB is not going to come back. I am confident it will come back eventually. Perhaps around mid-season or near the end of the season, who knows?

It’s sweet that you have faith in Anet, still. The point is that they’ve known all this time that it was not being worked on, and they sold that infinite coin in the gemstore anyway. That is, frankly, a dishonest cash grab. Nobody who bought that coin thought that worlds 3 and 4 would be pushed to the back burner and given absolutely no timetable other than, “We want to work on our other game modes, and we’re not working on this other thing that we told you we’d work on.”

If I had one, I’d want a refund even if they brought back worlds 1 and 2 permanently. And it would still leave a bitter taste in my mouth.

I will parrot OP. I’m not a SAB fan personally, but there is literally NO reason not to have it open for people to play when/if they want to.

Malkavian.4516:

Seriously, guys. Just chill. I read the interview and nothing is mentioned in verbatim indicating that SAB is not going to come back. I am confident it will come back eventually. Perhaps around mid-season or near the end of the season, who knows?

SAB is not going to come back during the course of LS2 because Mordremoth > Jumping around. Makes sense, but then they go on to say that we may not be seeing SAB after LS2, depending on if, when, how they can fit it in into the overarching story. Also, it sounded like LS was going to be a big, big, big continuation annd that means it’s too intense for jumping around.

Esplen.3940:

Malkavian.4516:

Seriously, guys. Just chill. I read the interview and nothing is mentioned in verbatim indicating that SAB is not going to come back. I am confident it will come back eventually. Perhaps around mid-season or near the end of the season, who knows?

SAB is not going to come back during the course of LS2 because Mordremoth > Jumping around. Makes sense, but then they go on to say that we may not be seeing SAB after LS2, depending on if, when, how they can fit it in into the overarching story. Also, it sounded like LS was going to be a big, big, big continuation annd that means it’s too intense for jumping around.

You need to learn to read between the lines. SAB is not going to come back ever. They’re not even planning any development for it, at any point. SAB is dead.

Mckeone.9804:

Esplen.3940:

Malkavian.4516:

Seriously, guys. Just chill. I read the interview and nothing is mentioned in verbatim indicating that SAB is not going to come back. I am confident it will come back eventually. Perhaps around mid-season or near the end of the season, who knows?

SAB is not going to come back during the course of LS2 because Mordremoth > Jumping around. Makes sense, but then they go on to say that we may not be seeing SAB after LS2, depending on if, when, how they can fit it in into the overarching story. Also, it sounded like LS was going to be a big, big, big continuation annd that means it’s too intense for jumping around.

You need to learn to read between the lines. SAB is not going to come back ever. They’re not even planning any development for it, at any point. SAB is dead.

It isnt much read between the times, its very clear they have no intentions to bring it back. But yes I was about to same the same thing.

If the goal is to drop SAB from the development cycle, then it absolutely should be enacted as permanent content. There’s absolutely no reason not to.

I really never understood the whole point of making it an event. Just leave it open and make the skins soul-bound again.

Yes, to everything here.

Edit: kitten merger. This was for Hamfast’s thread.

SAB World 2 had horrible metrics because it was released alongside new best is slot gear… enough said. We felt forced to grind instead.

Don’t dismiss the best content made for GW2.

I never got to play it, but its one of the things that got me excited about this game… please ANet make my wish come true and give me the SAB stuff that you already have made.

Scipio.3204:

Last time I purchased gem with RL money was back in september to buy an infinite coin, not because I needed it,but because I wanted to show my support for the devs who made SAB .

Nice idea in theory, but I’m not sure it really works this way, nor should it. If ArenaNet wants to know how many people played SAB, I’m sure they have stats on that. I highly doubt someone is saying “Well, very few people bought the Infinite Continue Coin, so that means nobody likes Super Adventure Box!”

I loved SAB. It was one of my favourite things about GW2, and in my opinion it was an amazing symbol of the unlimited possibilities of what this game could bring, and it probably made the game look cool to people who hadn’t picked up GW2 yet. I played the heck out of SAB, but I didn’t buy the Continue Coin from the gem store, simply because I didn’t feel like I needed it. I didn’t perceive that buying the coin had anything to do with boosting development on future content for that particular activity.

If that is really how it works at ANet, they are doing a very poor job of communicating it.

Chameleon Dude.1564:

SAB World 2 had horrible metrics because it was released alongside new best is slot gear… enough said. We felt forced to grind instead.

And in my case, I didn’t play the second iteration of SAB simply because I wasn’t playing GW2 at the time. I almost came back just for more SAB, but it didn’t happen. I had played GW2 since launch, and was feeling a little burnt out in general and needed a break. But I guess ANet just looked at that time period and said “Well, people didn’t play SAB!”

Hammerguard.9834:

I don’t think it should be permanent. It would take away from what makes it so precious.

If it were understood that SAB was being worked on, and it returned frequently on a regular schedule, that would be one thing. But it has been gone for most of a year, without any hint that it will ever appear again. What is the point of having “precious” content that is unplayable? Non-existent gameplay does not make GW2 better, not does it add to the game’s perceived value.

I don’t think it should be permanent. It would take away from what makes it so precious. Riot also knew this when their massive community cried out for more Ultra Rapid Fire. But taking such a long break from SAB is another thing.

I’m not a terribly big fan of the SAB, but did get some playtime out of it. I don’t understand why it wasn’t kept permanently opened from the start, kinda like other mini games that were permanent. Just let people know that they won’t be regularly updating it.

Hammerguard.9834:

I don’t think it should be permanent. It would take away from what makes it so precious. Riot also knew this when their massive community cried out for more Ultra Rapid Fire. But taking such a long break from SAB is another thing.

It should be permanent, there is more content in it than CoF. Just make it daily (All rewards for it but the bubbles you pick off the ground).

Perhaps SAB every first week of the month or something? We don’t need new worlds, etc… just some good old SAB…