Guild Wars 2

Mirta.5029:

Villious.8530:

Vayne, I think the issue is, why do you feel so compelled to give “the other side of the story” so often? I’ve gotten where I can look at the title of a thread and know whether or not your going to post within.

because we like to spend time on the forums.
I’ve seen a lot of the dark side expressed by the same people and a lot of the white side expressed by the same people and I’m completely okay with that. These are the forums, forums are for discussion, you shouldn’t be limited on how many posts a month you can post and after how many months do you have to disappear off the forums.

My post had nothing to do with how many times you can or should post on the forums. I’ve said before, blindly defending all the time looks just as bad as blindly attacking all the time. If Anet needs a full time champion, I’m sure they can work that in the budget.

I’ll let it go at this before I get a infraction. Have a nice day :-)

Villious.8530:

My post had nothing to do with how many times you can or should post on the forums. I’ve said before, blindly defending all the time looks just as bad as blindly attacking all the time.

He actually disagrees with Anet on certain topics. He also rarely resorts to hyperbole and lies to make his point.

Is that what you consider “blindly defending?”

This smear campaign is ridiculous. He agrees with Anet most of the time. Deal with it. If you’re actually serious about having a good discussion, argue his points, don’t attack the speaker.

EDIT: Ironic is you “blindly” attacking Vayne’s character despite clear evidence that he doesn’t agree with everything Anet has done. Now that, I’d define as “blindly attacking.”

Villious.8530:

Mirta.5029:

Villious.8530:

Vayne, I think the issue is, why do you feel so compelled to give “the other side of the story” so often? I’ve gotten where I can look at the title of a thread and know whether or not your going to post within.

because we like to spend time on the forums.
I’ve seen a lot of the dark side expressed by the same people and a lot of the white side expressed by the same people and I’m completely okay with that. These are the forums, forums are for discussion, you shouldn’t be limited on how many posts a month you can post and after how many months do you have to disappear off the forums.

My post had nothing to do with how many times you can or should post on the forums. I’ve said before, blindly defending all the time looks just as bad as blindly attacking all the time. If Anet needs a full time champion, I’m sure they can work that in the budget.

I’ll let it go at this before I get a infraction. Have a nice day :-)

How can I be “blindly defending all the time” when I’ve agreed with negative posts? There’s a big long post about a guy that had four or five problems with the game. I agreed with 4 of his 5 points and said so, only disagreeing with his bit about there being more hearts in the game.

People like to throw words like blindly around. I dont’ do anything blindly. I leave many complaint threads alone. I can point out several on the front page right now. If they’re fairly put, and they employ false info or skewed logic to make a point, I don’t comment in them. But if they do, I’m entitled to post a response.

I’m not sure why this should be a problem for you.

Vayne.8563:

Villious.8530:

Vayne.8563:

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Nick.6972:

Vayne, you’re the biggest fanboy around here.
I read (and don’t reply) GW2 forum every now and then and every time I do you’re literally in every thread every time stating how great this game is.
If this game is so great, why do you keep coming back to this forum 24/7?

His express purpose is to maintain a positive atmosphere toward the game and balance out negative posts about GW2:

As for protecting Guild Wars 2, I’m against hyperbole generally and will call people on it, in real life as well as on forums, for the reason of it obscuring truth. It doesn’t matter to me if you like that, or you don’t.

What does matter to me is that the other side of the story gets told.

It’s basically the same MO he had over on a GW2 fan site.

He occasionally has some valid points, but for the most part his undue faith in the game and its inevitable development toward greatness constitutes a kind of flamebait (see the section on “unhelpful fanboy”) that so often ruins online forums.

So you think me giving the other side of the story is unhelpful, where a bunch of people saying the game is dying is helpful. I understand now. Thanks for explaining it to me.

There are those who might say that some people who attack the game at every opportunity, often by quoting some parts of truth while ignoring others are far worse for the forums, but that’s okay. We all have our opinions, even on this.

The OP made a post about Anet being greedy because they were selling emotes, like the ones he had in Guild Wars 1, apparently.

In fact, what is being sold is a three pack of dances, which the OP now claims he wasn’t talking about at all.

Also, since you seem to be good at researching my quotes, why don’t you point out the times I’ve said Anet has made a mistake or I don’t agree with them. Oh, sorry, that doesn’t fit your current theory does it?

This is precisely the same MO that people use in other threads, trying to make a point while ignoring a portion of the evidence.

Vayne, I think the issue is, why do you feel so compelled to give “the other side of the story” so often? I’ve gotten where I can look at the title of a thread and know whether or not your going to post within.

A few days ago, I was talking in Team Speak with my guild. One of my guild mates said something about garuanteed drops. I said “Well you know what they say….the only things in life that are garuanteed are death and taxes”. Then all of a sudden, another guildmate said “You’re wrong about that. They’ve added one. Now the only things garuanteed in life are death, taxes and Vayne white-knighting”. We all bursted out laughing because we all knew what he meant, even though none of us had mentioned your name previously. Congrats bud…..you’re famous!

That’s great. It absolutlely 100% doesn’t matter why I feel the need to stand up against hyperbole or people making false statements, or people omitting truth from other statements. It matters not one whit. This isn’t a thread for discussion.

If you wish to start a discussion about me, please start a new thread. I get that you don’t get it, and that’s fine. But there are people who do get it, and I’ve received appreciative messages from those people…so it works both ways.

Should I listen to you, or the people who clearly like what I’m doing. And again, why does it matter? Why is it so important to you? Why, in fact, am I so interesting to you that you’re discussing me in your spare time?

Maybe you should focus more on the actual issue.

Please re-read. I wasn’t discussing you. Only laughing at the people who were…

Have a nice night Vayne.

Villious.8530:

Vayne.8563:

Villious.8530:

Vayne.8563:

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Nick.6972:

Vayne, you’re the biggest fanboy around here.
I read (and don’t reply) GW2 forum every now and then and every time I do you’re literally in every thread every time stating how great this game is.
If this game is so great, why do you keep coming back to this forum 24/7?

His express purpose is to maintain a positive atmosphere toward the game and balance out negative posts about GW2:

As for protecting Guild Wars 2, I’m against hyperbole generally and will call people on it, in real life as well as on forums, for the reason of it obscuring truth. It doesn’t matter to me if you like that, or you don’t.

What does matter to me is that the other side of the story gets told.

It’s basically the same MO he had over on a GW2 fan site.

He occasionally has some valid points, but for the most part his undue faith in the game and its inevitable development toward greatness constitutes a kind of flamebait (see the section on “unhelpful fanboy”) that so often ruins online forums.

So you think me giving the other side of the story is unhelpful, where a bunch of people saying the game is dying is helpful. I understand now. Thanks for explaining it to me.

There are those who might say that some people who attack the game at every opportunity, often by quoting some parts of truth while ignoring others are far worse for the forums, but that’s okay. We all have our opinions, even on this.

The OP made a post about Anet being greedy because they were selling emotes, like the ones he had in Guild Wars 1, apparently.

In fact, what is being sold is a three pack of dances, which the OP now claims he wasn’t talking about at all.

Also, since you seem to be good at researching my quotes, why don’t you point out the times I’ve said Anet has made a mistake or I don’t agree with them. Oh, sorry, that doesn’t fit your current theory does it?

This is precisely the same MO that people use in other threads, trying to make a point while ignoring a portion of the evidence.

Vayne, I think the issue is, why do you feel so compelled to give “the other side of the story” so often? I’ve gotten where I can look at the title of a thread and know whether or not your going to post within.

A few days ago, I was talking in Team Speak with my guild. One of my guild mates said something about garuanteed drops. I said “Well you know what they say….the only things in life that are garuanteed are death and taxes”. Then all of a sudden, another guildmate said “You’re wrong about that. They’ve added one. Now the only things garuanteed in life are death, taxes and Vayne white-knighting”. We all bursted out laughing because we all knew what he meant, even though none of us had mentioned your name previously. Congrats bud…..you’re famous!

That’s great. It absolutlely 100% doesn’t matter why I feel the need to stand up against hyperbole or people making false statements, or people omitting truth from other statements. It matters not one whit. This isn’t a thread for discussion.

If you wish to start a discussion about me, please start a new thread. I get that you don’t get it, and that’s fine. But there are people who do get it, and I’ve received appreciative messages from those people…so it works both ways.

Should I listen to you, or the people who clearly like what I’m doing. And again, why does it matter? Why is it so important to you? Why, in fact, am I so interesting to you that you’re discussing me in your spare time?

Maybe you should focus more on the actual issue.

Please re-read. I wasn’t discussing you. Only laughing at the people who were…

Have a nice night Vayne.

Sorry dude, I’m in defense mode. lol

Villious.8530:

Please re-read. I wasn’t discussing you. Only laughing at the people who were…

Villious.8530:

“You’re wrong about that. They’ve added one. Now the only things garuanteed in life are death, taxes and Vayne white-knighting”. We all bursted out laughing because we all knew what he meant, even though none of us had mentioned your name previously. Congrats bud…..you’re famous!

Pretty sure you’re laughing at him.

I don’t mind the new dances being in the gem store. However, I do hope they bring back most, if not all, of the emotes from GW1 for free. I miss /breath and /ready.

Kichwas.7152:

Bought the dances and the new shorts and the lion and the new shirt around 12am last night the very moment I saw them go up.

These are EXACTLY the kinds of things I’ve wanted to see for sale up there.

Still want shorts like that and that shirt in both medium and light armors. Hapy but I want them to take more of my money… oh, and charr dreadlocks like Rox.

BUT at the same time the OP has a point in that the game shipped with about half the core built in animated emotes of what it should have had… and I don’t like them as inventory items I need to equip to use.

Let me /dance 3
- I had keybinds like that in city of heroes to swap around emotes and dances on the fly.
I can’t reasonably pop these new dances out before or after a fight (or even during, not that I would… except that I have…)

Wait, you have to activate it as an inventory item? I just assumed it was a consumable that would allow you to use actual new emotes.
I was actually considering getting it, but that’s just terrible.

Gele.2048:

so the game came whit almoust 0 emotes so now u can sell them in the store ? thac kind of lame and im very disappointed

what are you talking about?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Emote

/beckon [Character] beckons. [Character] beckons to [Target].
/bow [Character] bows. [Character] bows for [Target].
/cheer [Character] cheers. [Character] cheers for [Target].
/cower [Character] cowers.
/cry [Character] is crying.
/dance [Character] is busting out some moves, some sweet dance moves.
/kneel [Character] kneels.
/laugh [Character] laughs. [Character] laughs with [Target].
/no [Character] disagrees. [Character] disagrees with [Target].
/point [Character] points. [Character] points at [Target].
/ponder [Character] ponders.
/salute [Character] salutes. [Character] salutes [Target].
/shrug [Character] shrugs. [Character] shrugs at [Target].
/sit [Character] sits.
/sleep [Character] sleeps.
/surprised [Character] is surprised. [Character] is surprised by [Target].
/threaten [Character] is threatening. [Character] threatens [Target].
/wave [Character] waves. [Character] waves at [Target].
/yes [Character] agrees. [Character] agrees with [Target].

Gele.2048:

so the game came whit almoust 0 emotes so now u can sell them in the store ? thac kind of lame and im very disappointed

I consider Anet to be a pretty slimy company as are all the mmo companies that turn kids into gamblers but selling emotes and clothes in the cash shop are what they should have done a long time ago instead of using RNG in everything. Now if the emotes are bought with RNG chests it’s typical Korean mmo behavior but if you can pick them out of the shop for a price I see no issue with it.

I like transparency :-)

Ursan.7846:

Villious.8530:

Vayne, I think the issue is, why do you feel so compelled to give “the other side of the story” so often?

The better question is why people love to point out his white knight-ness.

It boggles me. It’s not good argumentation. Just because the speaker is biased, doesn’t make his points less valid. And posters constantly perpetuate this logical fallacy. If you are actually serious about serious discussion, this combined with all the hyperbole and outright lies will of course annoy you.

I love when people use the word hyperbole in a forum. It reminds me of the biggest fanboi I’ve ever seen on an mmo forum that defends Tortanic in many posts there and most of that forum community just ignores that persons comments.

When you see hyperbole you know it’s a serious fan of the game lol.

Swagger.1459:

Gele.2048:

so the game came whit almoust 0 emotes so now u can sell them in the store ? thac kind of lame and im very disappointed

welcome to the modern era of free to pay massively multipayer online console rolepaying games! enjoy your pay!

apparently being cheap shysters is good for the industry though.

you’re so vayne. you probably think this thread is about you.
you’re so vayne. i’ll bet you think this thread is about you.
don’t you? don’t you?….

Sing it Mrs. Simon! Lol!!!!

Drew.1865:

Ursan.7846:

Villious.8530:

Vayne, I think the issue is, why do you feel so compelled to give “the other side of the story” so often?

The better question is why people love to point out his white knight-ness.

It boggles me. It’s not good argumentation. Just because the speaker is biased, doesn’t make his points less valid. And posters constantly perpetuate this logical fallacy. If you are actually serious about serious discussion, this combined with all the hyperbole and outright lies will of course annoy you.

I love when people use the word hyperbole in a forum. It reminds me of the biggest fanboi I’ve ever seen on an mmo forum that defends Tortanic in many posts there and most of that forum community just ignores that persons comments.

When you see hyperbole you know it’s a serious fan of the game lol.

I am a serious fan of the game. Moreover, I’m PROUD to be a serious fan of the game. And quite fortunately, I’m not the ONLY fan of the game on these forums, though I’m one of the most vocal.

People are always ready to knock something they don’t like. Far fewer people are willing to defend something they do.

I’m not so sad to be part of that minority.

Ursan.7846:

Villious.8530:

Please re-read. I wasn’t discussing you. Only laughing at the people who were…

Villious.8530:

“You’re wrong about that. They’ve added one. Now the only things garuanteed in life are death, taxes and Vayne white-knighting”. We all bursted out laughing because we all knew what he meant, even though none of us had mentioned your name previously. Congrats bud…..you’re famous!

Pretty sure you’re laughing at him.

Hey there and thanks for the support….but I don’t mind being called a white knight. What people don’t realize is I’ll do the same thing in most settings when I see people misusing language to try to make a point. It helps neither them nor the community.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I don’t get it… you do know that GW2 isn’t a charity right? They need to pay their bills. This is EXACTLY the kind of thing you want in the gem store. What you don’t want are ascended weapons and armor or 500% PvP damage boosts.

Exactly this!
@OP Just a question, if you don’t want them selling emotes what do you want them selling in the gem-store?

The only MMO to do emotes right is Final Fantasy 11. They have specialized job emotes that are earned by doing quest.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Morrigan.2809:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Although they are not dreadlocks like Rox has, you can get free dreadlocks in-game (Lamprey Grottoes) for any character.

wait what?

I have wanted dreadlocks on my human mesmer since beta- please elaborate- I actually have a screenie of my Mesmer in the grotto- I can go back there in a heartbeat.

When I wake up tomorrow that is

You can get them from: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Riff_Sootclaw

Thanks man- I will check it out

I completely missed that- or I just have a really bad memory

Vorch.2985:

I thought people were asking for dances to be put in the store????

I thought this was the perfect item to put in the gem store myself.

It is better that emotes are in the store rather than pay to win items.

Wasn’t this pretty much a given? The gem shop is about cosmetics. Dance moves are a cosmetic item.

I would appreciate an account-wide unlock pack for all GW1 emotes though.

Morrigan.2809:

The game has many emotes, the only ones I ever use are /sit, /wave and /bow.

Uh, no. Closer to zero than many. As a new player, I’ve seen great things about this game, but also big holes in what should be there. The lack of emotes is one of those things that are almost unbelievable. The lack of a trade feature with other players is another.

SilverangelXx.1685:

Morrigan.2809:

The game has many emotes, the only ones I ever use are /sit, /wave and /bow.

Uh, no. Closer to zero than many. As a new player, I’ve seen great things about this game, but also big holes in what should be there. The lack of emotes is one of those things that are almost unbelievable. The lack of a trade feature with other players is another.

20 emotes is close to zero? Eh. If you say so I guess.

Also the lack of a trade feature is a purposeful design decision.

SilverangelXx.1685:

Morrigan.2809:

The game has many emotes, the only ones I ever use are /sit, /wave and /bow.

Uh, no. Closer to zero than many. As a new player, I’ve seen great things about this game, but also big holes in what should be there. The lack of emotes is one of those things that are almost unbelievable. The lack of a trade feature with other players is another.

No matter how many emotes you have, it’s always closer to zero when compared to the almost infinite number of emotes you can have.

I do agree with you about direct trading though. I know why Anet did this, but I don’t agree that it should have been done.

Oh nobody worry. I’m sure Anet will add more emotes down the line. Like the Air guitar, and Air drums, and uh ,crap, what was the others….OH! the kazoo!…no wait that wasn’t it.

ANYWHO all we need to do is have faith and hope and Sanity. UNfortunately, I lost all those so…someone else has to have all those…or just 2/3 will do just fine.

Unless Anet intends on selling the Air for our guitars,drums, and Kazoo then we got a problem.

Torqueblue.1945:

Oh nobody worry. I’m sure Anet will add more emotes down the line. Like the Air guitar, and Air drums, and uh ,crap, what was the others….OH! the kazoo!…no wait that wasn’t it.

ANYWHO all we need to do is have faith and hope and Sanity. UNfortunately, I lost all those so…someone else has to have all those…or just 2/3 will do just fine.

Unless Anet intends on selling the Air for our guitars,drums, and Kazoo then we got a problem.

oohhhh you just reminded me of the aeroplane bug we had in the betas!

I would pay any amount of money for that, and air guitar now that you mention it

what we need is more instruments so we can play a show, have a huge dance and some air guitar spamming.

I can just see it now…. the Baby Quaggans / Princess Dolls tours Tyria- starting at LA and coming to a city near you.
Soon

Good lord, all the Vanye baiting.

Look folks, the forums are a relatively small portion of the people playing the game. Overwhelmingly, they will be people with issues with the game, because that’s how most people find the forums.

The fact that the dude apparently doesn’t sleep, and has faith in Anet, doesn’t make him wrong. The fact that he speaks (types) like an old dude doesn’t make him wrong. (Betcha he’s the other side of 50, and from a commonwealth country.)

Mostly, it seems he’s interesting in leavening the 100% doom and gloom that floods the forums with some small amount of optimism.

Some of you are blatantly baiting him – this is the third thread I’ve read today where there are postings with no other purpose than to bring out his white-knightedness.

For the OP, and anyone else offended by the micro-transactions? Grow up. Anet needs to make money, continually, and they only sell fluff in the gem store. If you don’t want the fluff, don’t buy it. Coming in with the attitude that it’s somehow owed to you, or you’ve been done wrong by not being given the fluff for free? If that’s what offends you most about GW2, you’re lucker than a lot of people.

Morrigan.2809:

Torqueblue.1945:

Oh nobody worry. I’m sure Anet will add more emotes down the line. Like the Air guitar, and Air drums, and uh ,crap, what was the others….OH! the kazoo!…no wait that wasn’t it.

ANYWHO all we need to do is have faith and hope and Sanity. UNfortunately, I lost all those so…someone else has to have all those…or just 2/3 will do just fine.

Unless Anet intends on selling the Air for our guitars,drums, and Kazoo then we got a problem.

oohhhh you just reminded me of the aeroplane bug we had in the betas!

I would pay any amount of money for that, and air guitar now that you mention it

what we need is more instruments so we can play a show, have a huge dance and some air guitar spamming.

I can just see it now…. the Baby Quaggans / Princess Dolls tours Tyria- starting at LA and coming to a city near you.
Soon

I would play my Ele again if they added a pink Barbie car convertible mount for Asuras. Can you imagine how awesome it would be to race through Orr in a Barbie car?

stale.9785:

Good lord, all the Vanye baiting.

Look folks, the forums are a relatively small portion of the people playing the game. Overwhelmingly, they will be people with issues with the game, because that’s how most people find the forums.

The fact that the dude apparently doesn’t sleep, and has faith in Anet, doesn’t make him wrong. The fact that he speaks (types) like an old dude doesn’t make him wrong. (Betcha he’s the other side of 50, and from a commonwealth country.)

Mostly, it seems he’s interesting in leavening the 100% doom and gloom that floods the forums with some small amount of optimism.

Some of you are blatantly baiting him – this is the third thread I’ve read today where there are postings with no other purpose than to bring out his white-knightedness.

For the OP, and anyone else offended by the micro-transactions? Grow up. Anet needs to make money, continually, and they only sell fluff in the gem store. If you don’t want the fluff, don’t buy it. Coming in with the attitude that it’s somehow owed to you, or you’ve been done wrong by not being given the fluff for free? If that’s what offends you most about GW2, you’re lucker than a lot of people.

Vayne-baiting huh? I like it. Maybe Anet can add it into the game as a minigame. lmao!

emotes, fashion, fluff all are perfect for the gem store. People want something that does not directly impact how the game is played the company should have the option to make extra money from it.

Yargesh.4965:

emotes, fashion, fluff all are perfect for the gem store. People want something that does not directly impact how the game is played the company should have the option to make extra money from it.

Agreed that is the whole point or should be of a F2P gem store. I wish they had that stuff when I was playing.

Third Eye.6718:

stale.9785:

Good lord, all the Vanye baiting.

For the OP, and anyone else offended by the micro-transactions? Grow up. Anet needs to make money, continually, and they only sell fluff in the gem store. If you don’t want the fluff, don’t buy it. Coming in with the attitude that it’s somehow owed to you, or you’ve been done wrong by not being given the fluff for free? If that’s what offends you most about GW2, you’re lucker than a lot of people.

It is not a question of being offended nor growing up, but rather a question of Ethics.

Anet needs to continually make money you say? I’d be interested to hear your facts backing up this statement, because I’ve been playing games for around 40 years and micro-transactions weren’t there in my day, and here we are still playing games. Also, hasn’t GW2 in all its success sold over 3 million copies, so I ask you, where did all that money go?

It would be interesting to know how much money is generated through micro transactions, and how much of this is put back into the game. I’m sure most are not naive enough to think that it’s not lining ‘other’ pockets as well.

Also you say, if we don’t want the fluff then don’t buy it, well that’s fair enough when we’re talking to adults who are not primarily ego driven. But the problem here is, we are talking about children as well, and as Drew mentioned above, MMO companies MAY be playing an active role in turning kids into gamblers(RNG), addicts(Legend grind), and simply sucking them in with marketing gimmicks(Quaggan backpacks lol).

And sure, while this falls back to the parents, it also lies with the MMO companies who allow it all to happen does it not? I’m curious as to what you and the whiteknight(Vayne) think about this in regards to this Ethical side of it, because from where I sit, to defend GW2 is to defend this practise is it not?

Btw, someone asked Vayne why he’s always defending the game. From a psychology point of view, people will defend whatever they are identified with (or value), as essentially they are just defending themselves. It is why this old dude who lives in a Commonwealth country is bothering to speak here, because I do not care for game banter, but the issue of Ethics is another story. : )

I’m against RNG in the game, when it comes to things like skins in the black lion chest. I’ve said so before and I have no doubt I’ll say it again. Of all the things I dislike about Guild Wars 2, RNG in the black market chest for rare skins is just ridiculous to me. I also didn’t like the dye packs having RNG for the new dyes. I think it’s a bad design decision.

That said I’m not sure it’s a question of ethics for me, so much as a question of balance or fairness. I don’t think someone should have to spend fifty or sixty dollars to try to get a skin. Selling the skin is one thing…rng for skins is terribad.

I’m not a big fan of minis available for a week either. They seem pointless to me. Why make them only available for a week, unless you’re trying to manipulate a large percentage of people into buying it.

Stuff like the dance, and the mining pick I’m fine with.

Third Eye.6718:

Anet needs to continually make money you say? I’d be interested to hear your facts backing up this statement, because I’ve been playing games for around 40 years and micro-transactions weren’t there in my day, and here we are still playing games. Also, hasn’t GW2 in all its success sold over 3 million copies, so I ask you, where did all that money go?

You can’t just compare the games that were made for PARC Alto or games for Apple II computers, which had no need for an internet-server and GW2 which requires so many servers to run. Well, unless you tell me you played games on ARPANET or something (which is very, very unprobable considering that 40 years ago there were in total 40ish companies connected to it, and somehow I don’t think NASA or DARPA allowed games on it. I might be wrong though.).
Servers that run GW2 require monthly bills to be paid. Games from 40 years ago, had no server requirement. Even today, the non-online games don’t need micro-transactions. I’m fine with micro-transactions as long as they are fluff things.
I do agree with you on the RNG cash-shop thing. It’s utterly ridiculous and I was really hopping that Anet would be above it. But then again, I thought they would be above so many things…

I think ANet is doing just fine with the way they bring new content, including emotes to us.

This is a subscription free game by which they are already adding/tweaking/fixing tons of content, adding new content like Flame and Frost and everything that comes with it for FREE. Got that? Real content for FREE!

To keep the electric bills paid and employees fed so they can keep giving us real content, they also roll out trivial items like pets, hats and emotes for a reasonable price. OP, are you really going to sit there and say we should get that free too? At what point are you going to support the creators of this content?

Most Buy to Play games nowadays make you pay for all things after the release of the game in the form of DLC. Guild Wars 2 developes new content and gives you most of it for free. The least you can do is pay for a few extras.

Vayne.8563:

Third Eye.6718:

stale.9785:

Good lord, all the Vanye baiting.

For the OP, and anyone else offended by the micro-transactions? Grow up. Anet needs to make money, continually, and they only sell fluff in the gem store. If you don’t want the fluff, don’t buy it. Coming in with the attitude that it’s somehow owed to you, or you’ve been done wrong by not being given the fluff for free? If that’s what offends you most about GW2, you’re lucker than a lot of people.

It is not a question of being offended nor growing up, but rather a question of Ethics.

Anet needs to continually make money you say? I’d be interested to hear your facts backing up this statement, because I’ve been playing games for around 40 years and micro-transactions weren’t there in my day, and here we are still playing games. Also, hasn’t GW2 in all its success sold over 3 million copies, so I ask you, where did all that money go?

It would be interesting to know how much money is generated through micro transactions, and how much of this is put back into the game. I’m sure most are not naive enough to think that it’s not lining ‘other’ pockets as well.

Also you say, if we don’t want the fluff then don’t buy it, well that’s fair enough when we’re talking to adults who are not primarily ego driven. But the problem here is, we are talking about children as well, and as Drew mentioned above, MMO companies MAY be playing an active role in turning kids into gamblers(RNG), addicts(Legend grind), and simply sucking them in with marketing gimmicks(Quaggan backpacks lol).

And sure, while this falls back to the parents, it also lies with the MMO companies who allow it all to happen does it not? I’m curious as to what you and the whiteknight(Vayne) think about this in regards to this Ethical side of it, because from where I sit, to defend GW2 is to defend this practise is it not?

Btw, someone asked Vayne why he’s always defending the game. From a psychology point of view, people will defend whatever they are identified with (or value), as essentially they are just defending themselves. It is why this old dude who lives in a Commonwealth country is bothering to speak here, because I do not care for game banter, but the issue of Ethics is another story. : )

I’m against RNG in the game, when it comes to things like skins in the black lion chest. I’ve said so before and I have no doubt I’ll say it again. Of all the things I dislike about Guild Wars 2, RNG in the black market chest for rare skins is just ridiculous to me. I also didn’t like the dye packs having RNG for the new dyes. I think it’s a bad design decision.

That said I’m not sure it’s a question of ethics for me, so much as a question of balance or fairness. I don’t think someone should have to spend fifty or sixty dollars to try to get a skin. Selling the skin is one thing…rng for skins is terribad.

I’m not a big fan of minis available for a week either. They seem pointless to me. Why make them only available for a week, unless you’re trying to manipulate a large percentage of people into buying it.

Stuff like the dance, and the mining pick I’m fine with.

Vayne, I agree with you a 1000% here. RNG is the main problem I have with this game. All MMO’s are gonna have an RNG component, but I think it’s used here to push toward the gem store, and bleed the economy of wealth. I don’t think it’s Anet behind this, so much as it is NCSoft influence.

I’d love to have one of the new infused weapons skins, but having to play the slot machine to get one makes it feel cheap to me. I saw where one guy bought 1000 BLC keys and didn’t get a singe weapon token. That’s why they push RNG; it makes them money. People can say, but you can convert gold to gems and not spend real money, but human nature will prevail and people will spend real money for the gems. I saw a kid in Best Buy the other day buy four $25 gem cards. He looked to be about 16 years old. I think they make a ton of cash on the gem store.

I bet they make much more money trough the cash shop/RNG model than they would if they had a $15 a month sub fee. Since the games been out, I’ve spend close to $500 on gems, so has my brother. One guy in my guild admitted that he’s spent over $3000 on gems thus far. I would imaging that people with a lot of disposable income drop a lot of money on gems. I just with they’d ease up on the RNG.

PS – Sorry for baiting you on the white-knight stuff. If that’s your thing, express yourself. :-) :-)

Third Eye.6718:

@Vayne – Thanks for the response. To me, balance & fairness are an integral part of Ethics, as imbalance and inequality can often lead to unhealthy consequences for both the game, and more importantly the individuals who play it. So what we choose to prop up/promote/push is of all importance in this regard. Please note, I’m not trying to preach at you lol, but more just noting (like others) that you talk a lot about the game a lot in a positive light, when from where I sit there are more serious issues at play.

@Ballistic – I was actually thinking of GW1 – it chugged along just fine in the beginning without micro-transactions and only started introducing them years down the road, and even then what you could get was minimal & limited. GW2 on the other hand is streamlined for it, and so imo has started to travel a slippery slope because you will find more often than not in todays society that money overrides Ethics, which is not good for anyone as I touched on above.

I should also add that many (probably the majority) of online games started out micro-transaction free, and managed to provide free content and patches. To do this was nothing more than good business practises, it keeps people happy & interested which keeps them active & loyal, while remaining Ethically sound! – It’s a win-win for all… So again I would ask, what has changed so much that this can no longer occur? Thanks for readig : ).

They are about to pass Internet sales tax in the US so that means micro transactions will be taxed and that starts the wheels turning for future regulation of mmos using gambling. Trust me this has gotten out of hand and I wouldn’t be surprised if micro transactions are stopped and mmos go back to the sub plan in the future.

I also think some players are starting to understand that the rewards in F2P games are much worse than sub games. Neverwinter is a great example of this. The boxes being linked in zone chat just like someone winning the jackpot at a slot machine makes me lol. You can open it but first you have to buy a key with real money lol.

Third Eye.6718:

@Ballistic – I was actually thinking of GW1 – it chugged along just fine in the beginning without micro-transactions and only started introducing them years down the road, and even then what you could get was minimal & limited. GW2 on the other hand is streamlined for it, and so imo has started to travel a slippery slope because you will find more often than not in todays society that money overrides Ethics, which is not good for anyone as I touched on above.

Well, you mentioned that you were playing games for about 40 years and that micro-transactions weren’t there back in the day, so I just commented that it’s not really fair to compare GW2 and games from 40 years ago. Especially considering that those games had no server requirement to let you actually play the games. That’s all I wanted to point out.
Other than that, I agree. Cash shop can be made as a money grabbing machine or cool fluff-store. GW2 with all of it’s cash shop RNG and limited sales, is still ok, IMO. Those are still vanity items (well almost, if you are not taking into account the armor and strength boosters), but I can just hope it will stay that way.

Third Eye.6718:

I should also add that many (probably the majority) of online games started out micro-transaction free, and managed to provide free content and patches. To do this was nothing more than good business practises, it keeps people happy & interested which keeps them active & loyal, while remaining Ethically sound! – It’s a win-win for all… So again I would ask, what has changed so much that this can no longer occur? Thanks for readig : ).

They have to pay all those PR and marketing bills. Those don’t come cheap.

I’ve never actually noticed that dances are sold in the gem store, but if I were to be in charge of Anet, that’s exactly where I’d put them. People are already getting there generous dose of free content, and there’s no problem with giving players the option to buy some fun emotes. Anet is not taking anything away from anybody by adding things to the gem store. If you don’t want to buy something, don’t buy it. If you don’t like the game, stop playing it. I’m grateful to Anet for providing such an awesome game, which without their existence, I would not otherwise be able to enjoy.

So to summarize, I agree with many of Anet’s actions, since I’m an aspiring “horrible Anet person” which everybody hates for some reason. I do dream of working for Anet someday

Third Eye.6718:

@Vayne – Thanks for the response. To me, balance & fairness are an integral part of Ethics, as imbalance and inequality can often lead to unhealthy consequences for both the game, and more importantly the individuals who play it. So what we choose to prop up/promote/push is of all importance in this regard. Please note, I’m not trying to preach at you lol, but more just noting (like others) that you talk a lot about the game a lot in a positive light, when from where I sit there are more serious issues at play.

@Ballistic – I was actually thinking of GW1 – it chugged along just fine in the beginning without micro-transactions and only started introducing them years down the road, and even then what you could get was minimal & limited. GW2 on the other hand is streamlined for it, and so imo has started to travel a slippery slope because you will find more often than not in todays society that money overrides Ethics, which is not good for anyone as I touched on above.

I should also add that many (probably the majority) of online games started out micro-transaction free, and managed to provide free content and patches. To do this was nothing more than good business practises, it keeps people happy & interested which keeps them active & loyal, while remaining Ethically sound! – It’s a win-win for all… So again I would ask, what has changed so much that this can no longer occur? Thanks for readig : ).

What changes happened that caused the games to become so heavily Micro-Transactions dependent i don’t know. It could be a lot of situations (including the shareholders forcing higher profit margins).

So, we know the gaming business models are fleeing from a subscription based system into a micro-transaction system, where the profits can be way less unless the shop isn’t very well played. It’s all about numbers to who run’s the show. So the real question is : How can a game maintain it’s profit (aka micro-transactions dependency) and in the same time maintain it’s integrity between the players?

If we want to maintain the cash shop free of abusive items (ones that give’s u advantage instead by simply spending money), we need to concede on something. This something is vanity items.

We only seen in the cash shop beauty items, dye packs, minis, services and slots. We haven’t seen (i hope that we don’t) seen any kind of Enhancement/boost that increases a player’s stats just by having them. Just look at other games where a cash-shop exists and compare. More, the game allows you to get them without a single cent spent by putting effort into the game (gold -> gems -> cash shop items).

I honestly don’t get why the majority of the people are complaining, but to be fair i completely agree with Vayne. It’s not that they are milking the cow about the cash shop, but they have to have a profit. Your entertainment it’s their business, not their hobby!

/Cheers

I just don’t see the problem here. In my opinion, emotes are perfect cash shop items. I don’t see why ANet would or should release fun/goofy things like this for free in a buy to play game.
The way I see it, they have two ways to support themselves with new digital items:
1) Develop and release new content that requires people to play toward the goal of attaining new items. People play more, people spend more in miscellaneous cash shop purchases while playing.
2) Create and sell items in the cash shop directly. It may not keep people playing, but it is still money in the bank.

There is no 3) Develop new rewards and give it to players immediately for free, although they do this on occasion because they are nice people. Doesn’t mean you get to complain when they charge for it.

So the question is, would you rather have them implement a new dungeon/fractal that you have to grind for a few weeks for an RNG chance at a new emote?

I’m no psychic, but I’m pretty sure if they did that we’d be seeing complaint threads about grinding JUST for an emote. Gasp!

It’s cool, people asked for them to be put in the gem store after they were first introduced in fun boxes.

RamataKahn.4283:

Gele.2048:

i just dont like the idea how they keep on adding bilion things into the store

Uh it’s how ftp games make their money, how is this even debatable???

Entitled feeling people with no business sense.

I don’t mind them being sold, Anet has to make a profit somewhere after all. I just wish the system was better and that the book was consumed upon use and simply unlocked the emotes for regular / usage. Right now Guild Wars 2 feels too cluttered and messy and it really discourages me from using the cash shop. I’m already wasting enough precious bag space as is.

Skins fall under this too. Why would I pay money when these things aren’t permanently available to me for convenient usage like the heritage stuff? Add in a costume merchant like Guild Wars had and I might actually buy something. Hell, why not put them in the woefully underutilized Hall of Monument room? That place could be so cool as a personal instance for cash shop unlocks. Make me want to spend gems, kitten it!

Vayne.8563:

Milennin.4825:

Was to be expected.

I’m just missing the old GW1 emotes. Oh well, it’s not a big deal, I’m just not interested in buying them when they came free in GW1.

Various dances did NOT come free with Guild Wars 1. You got your one dance, and that was it. If you bought the collectors edition, you got a special dance (at least the Factions and Night Fall one). There were no other free dances.

Guild Wars 2 comes with a free dance for your character and Guild Wars 1 came with a free dance for your character. There were no options besides collectors edition dances beyond that.

Sorry Vayne but I have to call BS on this one. You forget about all the other dances that came with the tonics, for example turning into a rollerbeetle had its own dance associated with it. Same thing for the candy corn transformation, Oozes and many other tonics. Also, If you got the prophecies collectors you got the glowy hand effect also.

Paying for emotes and dances is lame. Just like paying to display your guild emblem on each character is lame. GW2 is one giant gold sink. At least in GW1 you bought your emblem once and everyone could display it for free. Still waiting for our characters to have to use an outhouse and we have to pay to access the outhouse or our characters double over and become unplayable.

My issue is not that the Emotes are being sold.. that’s really cool it’s that they are. However the issue is them being linked to an item. I would love a Emote tag on my Hero panel showing the unlocked emotes on my Account. Then when I buy the book I can use it unlock those 3 dances. There is just too much rubbish that sits in bags.

Ratty.5176:

My issue is not that the Emotes are being sold.. that’s really cool it’s that they are. However the issue is them being linked to an item. I would love a Emote tag on my Hero panel showing the unlocked emotes on my Account. Then when I buy the book I can use it unlock those 3 dances. There is just too much rubbish that sits in bags.

On this I can agree. I thought I was buying a book that I could convert into emotes, instead I have another item clogging my inventory. The new dance emotes aren’t as spectacular as the racial ones either.

But I can shoot other players with dance beams though, I have to try that out the next time I visit Divinity’s Reach or Lion’s Arch.

Flashing Blades.7165:

Vayne.8563:

Milennin.4825:

Was to be expected.

I’m just missing the old GW1 emotes. Oh well, it’s not a big deal, I’m just not interested in buying them when they came free in GW1.

Various dances did NOT come free with Guild Wars 1. You got your one dance, and that was it. If you bought the collectors edition, you got a special dance (at least the Factions and Night Fall one). There were no other free dances.

Guild Wars 2 comes with a free dance for your character and Guild Wars 1 came with a free dance for your character. There were no options besides collectors edition dances beyond that.

Sorry Vayne but I have to call BS on this one. You forget about all the other dances that came with the tonics, for example turning into a rollerbeetle had its own dance associated with it. Same thing for the candy corn transformation, Oozes and many other tonics. Also, If you got the prophecies collectors you got the glowy hand effect also.

Paying for emotes and dances is lame. Just like paying to display your guild emblem on each character is lame. GW2 is one giant gold sink. At least in GW1 you bought your emblem once and everyone could display it for free. Still waiting for our characters to have to use an outhouse and we have to pay to access the outhouse or our characters double over and become unplayable.

Some of the tonics in Guild Wars 2 have dances as well. My wife made an endless toy doll tonic from christmas which comes with a dance. She didn’t pay for that in the cash shop.

And at this point in Guild Wars 1’s life there were NO dances but the ones it came with. So you had a choice of one dance at this point in Guild Wars 1’s life. That’s it. No tonics back then with dances. Nothing like it.

Guild Wars 2 gives you at least your dance, and the doll tonic, which is twice the number of dances Guild Wars 1 gave you at the same point in the game’s development.

Your experience of MMOs is all Guild Wars 1. My experience with MMOs is lots of MMOs. Judging the way a coop game is monetized compared to how an MMO is monetized really isn’t fair. They’re very different types of games.

MMOs have the highest risk factor of any type of game. They cost more to run. The staff required to run Guild Wars 2 is more than five times the size of what it cost to run Guild Wars 1.

You can compare the two games all you like, but this is a much bigger project with a much higher overhead. It requires a different level of financial support.

Edit: By percentage VERY few of the tonics had dances. Also the toy charr soldier tonic has a dance as well.

Villious.8530:

Vayne.8563:

The OP made a post about Anet being greedy because they were selling emotes, like the ones he had in Guild Wars 1, apparently.

In fact, what is being sold is a three pack of dances, which the OP now claims he wasn’t talking about at all.

Vayne, I think the issue is, why do you feel so compelled to give “the other side of the story” so often? I’ve gotten where I can look at the title of a thread and know whether or not your going to post within.

Because 99 times out of 100 Vayne is spot on. I don’t post here as much as he does but while you cart out a guild of people who shake their heads at someone who likes much of this game I could cart out my very active guild that tends to be full of people saying the same things he does whether they know of him or not.

I’m just glad he’s also on my server even though we’ve never met in game. I know the reason why I hear things like a recent map conversation outside of the new dungeon; about how friendly our server is, is in large part due to folks like him being big personalities among us.

That said, the folks who have wandered off topic into attacking him; youKre all basically violating the rules of conduct here. Stick to topic and drop the personal stuff.

Vayne.8563:

DarksunG.9537:

I don’t mind the dances being sold, but for a game they want to be social, the number of emotes is absolutely laughable. I thought GW1 had too few, but they managed to ratchet it down even more.

I’m pretty sure that the bulk of the community cares a whole lot less about emotes than you do.

Enough people care that last night in divinity’s reach I was getting horrid lag around the bank from too many people line dancing to the new dances…

They care, but they care in terms of being happy about it.

Vayne.8563:

Flashing Blades.7165:

Vayne.8563:

Milennin.4825:

Was to be expected.

I’m just missing the old GW1 emotes. Oh well, it’s not a big deal, I’m just not interested in buying them when they came free in GW1.

Various dances did NOT come free with Guild Wars 1. You got your one dance, and that was it. If you bought the collectors edition, you got a special dance (at least the Factions and Night Fall one). There were no other free dances.

Guild Wars 2 comes with a free dance for your character and Guild Wars 1 came with a free dance for your character. There were no options besides collectors edition dances beyond that.

Sorry Vayne but I have to call BS on this one. You forget about all the other dances that came with the tonics, for example turning into a rollerbeetle had its own dance associated with it. Same thing for the candy corn transformation, Oozes and many other tonics. Also, If you got the prophecies collectors you got the glowy hand effect also.

Paying for emotes and dances is lame. Just like paying to display your guild emblem on each character is lame. GW2 is one giant gold sink. At least in GW1 you bought your emblem once and everyone could display it for free. Still waiting for our characters to have to use an outhouse and we have to pay to access the outhouse or our characters double over and become unplayable.

Some of the tonics in Guild Wars 2 have dances as well. My wife made an endless toy doll tonic from christmas which comes with a dance. She didn’t pay for that in the cash shop.

And at this point in Guild Wars 1’s life there were NO dances but the ones it came with. So you had a choice of one dance at this point in Guild Wars 1’s life. That’s it. No tonics back then with dances. Nothing like it.

Guild Wars 2 gives you at least your dance, and the doll tonic, which is twice the number of dances Guild Wars 1 gave you at the same point in the game’s development.

Your experience of MMOs is all Guild Wars 1. My experience with MMOs is lots of MMOs. Judging the way a coop game is monetized compared to how an MMO is monetized really isn’t fair. They’re very different types of games.

MMOs have the highest risk factor of any type of game. They cost more to run. The staff required to run Guild Wars 2 is more than five times the size of what it cost to run Guild Wars 1.

You can compare the two games all you like, but this is a much bigger project with a much higher overhead. It requires a different level of financial support.

Edit: By percentage VERY few of the tonics had dances. Also the toy charr soldier tonic has a dance as well.

Sorry Vayne you can try to justify/argue it any way you want to. But your statement “There were no other free dances” was wrong and that is all there is to it.

I find myself agreeing with Vayne far more than disagreeing, for whatever that’s worth. Of all the MMO’s I’ve played since Everquest, GW2 is by far my favorite. Is it perfect? No, but IMO, it’s better than anything else out there.

I’d like more emotes, but I’m not going to lose any sleep over it. I doubt I’ll buy any dances, either. Especially if they take up inventory slots. That and miniatures. If they had an interface like Blizzard’s, I would collect them. I did in WoW. It was fun. Taking up bag space with items like that is dumb.

Being indignant about only 20 emotes, which is not next to 0, and a B2P game selling dances in the gem store is childish. The reason the lights are still on at A-Net is the fact that they do sell vanity items for cash. That’s how it works.

Keep up the good work, Vayne.