Guild Wars 2

Rayya.2591:

Oglaf.1074:

maddoctor.2738:

Oglaf.1074:

maddoctor.2738:

Maybe those zerker warriors will finally “lose” some of their OPness now. Nerfing them without nerfing their skills, nice job.

Yeah a blanket nerf across the board which nerfs all Professions in order to combat one overpowered build for one Profession.

That’s some NASA-grade rocket science right there!

So you don’t believe that the buff from the pies was kinda overpowered?

It was a necessary evil to allow any Profession that doesn’t have the amazing sustain of Guardian to melee in dungeons.

it was cool for warrior, it was lool for thieves.
Combined with signet of malice i could get from 500 hp to 17k in less that 3 seconds using dagger storm, betwen 15 dredges on lvl 20 fractals

Dagger Storm has a 90 second cool-down.

R.i.p melee warrior grab your rifle and longbows, time to show them rangers whos boss :p

I am not gonna argue that the food wasnt poorly balanced, It was, however the way the endgame is built it was vital to stay alive if you had any intentions of using melee weapons.

Personally I am glad its nerfed, I just hope Arena net dosnt take to long to make the needed changes to fill the gaps of the food.

Daecollo.9578:

Rayya.2591:

Oglaf.1074:

maddoctor.2738:

Oglaf.1074:

maddoctor.2738:

Maybe those zerker warriors will finally “lose” some of their OPness now. Nerfing them without nerfing their skills, nice job.

Yeah a blanket nerf across the board which nerfs all Professions in order to combat one overpowered build for one Profession.

That’s some NASA-grade rocket science right there!

So you don’t believe that the buff from the pies was kinda overpowered?

It was a necessary evil to allow any Profession that doesn’t have the amazing sustain of Guardian to melee in dungeons.

it was cool for warrior, it was lool for thieves.
Combined with signet of malice i could get from 500 hp to 17k in less that 3 seconds using dagger storm, betwen 15 dredges on lvl 20 fractals

Dagger Storm has a 90 second cool-down.

that does not change the fact that i could do that

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Iruwen.3164:

Puandro.3245:

What is the new internal cooldown to life stealing foods? This change affects many builds that rely on it and it would be nice to know a # instead of just a mystery number you guys like to give out, thanks.

There are builds that rely on food?

Yes, there are. Many of the glass cannon builds rely on the food buffs for lifesteal that is greater than healing. I added a 1 second cooldown after each proc to stop abuse using certain skills that could heal a character from near death to full health due purely to critting with a food item.

Zinkey.6983:

Was sad to see no mention of any spy kit nerfs in the patch notes, I suppose the stealth changes mentioned could be there to address this…would be a bit silly to break the crystals from caledon forest but leave spy kits.

Great catch – I did in fact do something to spy kits (both OOW and Ash Legion) that got dropped out of the patch notes by accident (Stealth stealth nerf!). I’ll go make sure they are properly put into the patch notes.

Rayya.2591:

Daecollo.9578:

Rayya.2591:

Oglaf.1074:

maddoctor.2738:

Oglaf.1074:

maddoctor.2738:

Maybe those zerker warriors will finally “lose” some of their OPness now. Nerfing them without nerfing their skills, nice job.

Yeah a blanket nerf across the board which nerfs all Professions in order to combat one overpowered build for one Profession.

That’s some NASA-grade rocket science right there!

So you don’t believe that the buff from the pies was kinda overpowered?

It was a necessary evil to allow any Profession that doesn’t have the amazing sustain of Guardian to melee in dungeons.

it was cool for warrior, it was lool for thieves.
Combined with signet of malice i could get from 500 hp to 17k in less that 3 seconds using dagger storm, betwen 15 dredges on lvl 20 fractals

Dagger Storm has a 90 second cool-down.

that does not change the fact that i could do that

Whirling Axe has a lower CD (by twice.) and had 1200 range, and hit 15×5 targets, a lot more then Dagger Storm.

Glad I’m not the only one. I already was running a pretty tanky build, but needed the food to be able to melee in dungeons with my Warrior. Even with the food, reliance on ranged was heavy, but at least I could occasionally switch to melee, do an alpha strike and survive well enough to make the risk worthwhile.

I’m good at kiting with the bow, but if I wanted to run a kiting build in dungeons, I would have gone with a Ranger or Shortbow/pistol-pistol Thief!

This is what is known as a “ham handed nerf” and it’s the type that can kill a game. If you look just at the food, it was disproportionate in what it could provide. However, in the big picture it was a hugely important band-aid that compensated for the lack of the developers ability to provide viable melee dungeon builds for Warriors. (There are also builds from every profession, in a game where the developers have admitted there are currently far too few viable end game builds for most professions, that are rendered non-viable by this change. It’s not just Warriors).

You don’t nerf something this big with out designing offsets to allow viable build variety while eliminating the abuse (whirling axe warriors I-win button).

Fiontar.4695:

Glad I’m not the only one. I already was running a pretty tanky build, but needed the food to be able to melee in dungeons with my Warrior. Even with the food, reliance on ranged was heavy, but at least I could occasionally switch to melee, do an alpha strike and survive well enough to make the risk worthwhile.

I’m good at kiting with the bow, but if I wanted to run a kiting build in dungeons, I would have gone with a Ranger or Shortbow/pistol-pistol Thief!

This is what is known as a “ham handed nerf” and it’s the type that can kill a game. If you look just at the food, it was disproportionate in what it could provide. However, in the big picture it was a hugely important band-aid that compensated for the lack of the developers ability to provide viable melee dungeon builds for Warriors. (There are also builds from every profession, in a game where the developers have admitted there are currently far too few viable end game builds for most professions, that are rendered non-viable by this change. It’s not just Warriors).

You don’t nerf something this big with out designing offsets to allow viable build variety while eliminating the abuse (whirling axe warriors I-win button).

If it had a 0.25 internal cooldown, it could take down the abuse (Whirling Axe/Dagger Storm.) and fix some of the builds without breaking them.

Of course, its going to have a 2 second one, and break it completely.

Wow, I killed warriors pretty easily before. Should I close my eyes now when I fight one?

No more 17k heal on my Warrior in PvE then? Sigh.
Back to HB spamming while watching TV series on second monitor I guess…

Levistis.8356:

Quick, sell the pies!

That would have been useful info yesterday. I think we’ll be eating the pies.

Warriors make better use of this than any thief. Warriors have anywhere from 75 ( Full zerker w/perma fury (easy)) to 100 (Traited etc..) Crit Chance.

All other classes dont come near this.

Warrior class is completely destryoed, thats what we needed, roll our rifles and bows, because we got a sturdy body, we can tank everything, we have endure pain 24/7. Oh and a small pic for AN

Too bad you can’t short sell items on the TP. You could make a killing on the pie price drop

Also, what builds are y’all running that you have no survival without the pies/ghosts? I really am running a full zerker warrior build, run it in practically everything, and usually use stew (might on dodge) or bars (gold find) rather than healing food.

Dodging, strafing, etc., work just fine for keeping my delicate flower self alive…

Raine.1394:

Levistis.8356:

Quick, sell the pies!

That would have been useful info yesterday. I think we’ll be eating the pies.

I sold them as soon as I saw the patch notes, made 10/11 gold back.

Yeesh, if we can’t have a nice discussion about pies and who it effects because you want to invalidate the other classes without considering how the food works on them… then…

NEENER NEENER YOUR PIES GOT NERFED.

Great. Good Job anet. Just fantastic.

Really? WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS?

“2-Second Internal Cooldown.” time to sell all pies.

Time to switch to mango pies.

And buy some before people manipulate that.

I ran ghosts instead of pies (same item just longer lasting) on my glass cannon mesmer. I could charge a zerg and use sword2 to pretty much instaheal. I knew it would have to eventually be nerfed, but it was fun while it lasted. I’m glad I sold all of them right after the patch notes came up. I guess I’ll be eating the 100pre/10%crit food like every other cookie cutter shatter build. I hate when fun things are nerfed, but these things was way OP. It just sucks that they have to nerf things into uselessness.

anyone got the time for its internal cooldown yet?

assuming they marked it at like 2 second, they just made the food worthless without a buff. if they did place it at around 2sec, they probably should have doubled the heal amount on a crit, make it more fitted of a sustained heal type thing instead of a completely op burst heal.

SuiRyuJin.4615:

anyone got the time for its internal cooldown yet?

assuming they marked it at like 2 second, they just made the food worthless without a buff. if they did place it at around 2sec, they probably should have doubled the heal amount on a crit, make it more fitted of a sustained heal type thing instead of a completely op burst heal.

It is 2 seconds.

It is 1 second.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Patch-Discussion-2-26/first#post1516029

I tested it myself using Healing Signet as a reference and it is indeed 1 second.

According to this dungeon forum thread, it is one second.

edit: Scooped by Volcanis!

I still remember the first time I used this food and thinking oh yeah this will get nerfed soon . . . 5 months later. . .

Finally, can’t believe it took so long.

Bubbagrim.6130:

How strange… I simply have a build on my mesmer I threw together to be balanced and there’s no end game content I can’t handle, including WvW. Oh… never used Omnomberry pie either.

I’m just like you, I have never used food. TBH I just heard of Omnomberry pie the other day. I play my thief and 90% I use Pistol Whip and never had a problem.
[/quote]

Mesmer does not NEED to be in melee like Thieves/Warriors.
And honestly you should try doing hard content.

VOLKON.1290:

Fiontar.4695:

The problem is that they have offered no offset and have thus eliminated a number of builds from the list of “end game viable”, which for many professions was already a very short list. This problem has been acknowledged by the developers, with the admission that they want at least 5-6 viable builds for each profession, but many are currently stuck with one or two. You can now scratch at least one “end game viable” build from each profession with this change, maybe more.

This is the kind of nerf that always irks me the most from MMO developers. Looking at the heal on crit food effect in isolation, it may have been obviously disproportional in it’s impact on the game. However, when taken in context with the greater whole, it had just become an “unintended” FIX for an aspect of the game that was clearly BROKEN, which was variety of end game viable builds.

So, yay to the developers, you managed to snatch some very low hanging fruit, while making the game the worse for it by pushing the change with out the needed fixes to professions that would have made the food effect redundant.

How strange… I simply have a build on my mesmer I threw together to be balanced and there’s no end game content I can’t handle, including WvW. Oh… never used Omnomberry pie either.

I’m just like you, I have never used food. TBH I just heard of Omnomberry pie the other day. I play my thief and 90% I use Pistol Whip and never had a problem.

Daecollo.9578:

Bubbagrim.6130:

How strange… I simply have a build on my mesmer I threw together to be balanced and there’s no end game content I can’t handle, including WvW. Oh… never used Omnomberry pie either.

I’m just like you, I have never used food. TBH I just heard of Omnomberry pie the other day. I play my thief and 90% I use Pistol Whip and never had a problem.

I’m doing every content there is lol,

Mesmer does not NEED to be in melee like Thieves/Warriors.
And honestly you should try doing hard content.
[/quote]

Sahfur.5612:

Bravi, Bravi, Bravi.. clap clap clap

I quit. Goodbye.

Warrior doesn’t have the necessary amount of sustain to properly perform now.
I now have fewer options to build my character (if I decided to spend time buying more gear sets, which I won’t) and I can only be..

1. cookie cutter zerker build
2. cookie cutter shout build

Neither will perform with any congruency with the upper level limit of ability that other classes have. This stuff is the only thing that made melee classes other than guardian playable.

This ridiculously expensive food was the only thing that kept me -close- to on par with guardian while still not being nearly as good at tanking with my tank build.
If nothing is added to warrior to make us viable, I quit. I want viable healing skills or the BWE damage nerfs to be rolled back. If we go zerker, we are squishier than a different class zerker. If we go tank, we are not nearly as survivable as light armored classes if they go -half- tank. Heck, some of them are more survivable in their zerker gear.

Fix the classes before you add sweeping nerfs, ANet. Think ahead sometime. Warrior has no sustain and the knights gear I bought is now -worthless-. Too much wasted time to waste more playing the game. I want a voucher for an entirely new set of armor or I quit.

You did add some legitimate fixes in the patch. Too bad you didn’t make any of my classes viable before removing their last bastions of usefulness. On a competitive level, the dynamic scaling adjustment + removal of this + BWE nerfs + buffs to other classes has made warrior laughable. Its the truth, and its a hard truth to swallow but anyone who disagrees with me is simply ignoring the truth, carved in stone, set in stone into an unshakeable foundation.

Oh, and you who love this patch:
I hope you enjoy dying alot, because you will be dying alot. I can only hope the ground lends comfort to you as you spend day after day on the floor.
You know all the tanking I did for you in dungeons before that wasn’t quite guardian level but at least I did fair damage and combined with a guardian synergized very well?
You know the zerker warriors you like? Guess what was giving them sustain to kill mobs for you?
Won’t be happening now. Prepare to die: Alot. Have fun.

I am not spending the amount of time that would be necessary for me to buy a new gear set other than knights(I have zerkers but I got bored of it) and not going to play a melee class when they are now going to be imbalanced in pve content compared to ranged. Other classes also completely annihilate us in pvp to the point of it being worse than a pre-alpha games balance. I quit.
All you ranged guys? Have fun, after the mobs kill us, they will kill you. It will be hilarious. I will record it and put it on youtube if I decide to log on to witness the cluster**** that will now be dungeons.

I don’t want to play ranged classes to be “competitive” (well, in pve at least, pvp belongs to them), so why play at all?

Sure, people will stay who don’t care about being balanced with other builds and classes, but I don’t want to be vastly underpowered in something I spend so much time. This nerf has completely tilted the meta in favor of the ranged classes and the balance is worse than pre-alpha. Don’t care? You probably didn’t do math or really delve into competitive play.

-Bye-.

Did you do drama at school ?

Perhaps a few warriors should try another class they have been OP for so long they no longer even realise it.

If one food was such a HUGE advantage isnt it pretty kitten obvious that it needed changing?

The only thing wrong with this change is that it took so long to happen.

I’m gonna eat my entire stack of Omnomberry Pies, as a last act of defiance.

Oglaf.1074:

I’m gonna eat my entire stack of Omnomberry Pies, as a last act of defiance.

This change wasn’t thought through that well.

good change, this food was just too cheap and way way too good.

yarpen.1364:

good change, this food was just too cheap and way way too good.

Because getting rid of options and making the game more cookiee cutter then it already is, is a good thing!

Whats so bad about 2-second timer

We can still get heals from it, Just every 2 seconds?

I dont get all this whine!!

some one get the cheese

BadShrooms.3094:

Whats so bad about 2-second timer

We can still get heals from it, Just every 2 seconds?

I dont get all this whine!!

some one get the cheese

I guess you have never done a dungeon before.

I have and I do, fractals as well.

I just think 2 seconds is reasonable, Not omg /quit nerf

BadShrooms.3094:

I have and I do, fractals as well.

I just think 2 seconds is reasonable, Not omg /quit nerf

Beyond level 30?

Yeah, tested and it has approx 1 second cooldown. Mango Pie anyone? 1/3 of omnom heal per sec but you don’t have to attack :]

Daecollo.9578:

BadShrooms.3094:

I have and I do, fractals as well.

I just think 2 seconds is reasonable, Not omg /quit nerf

Beyond level 30?

Nope, but i guess this means no one can do level 30 fractals.

Just because there is a 2-second timer.

Well guess what alot of classes have issues lets look at condition damage and how its excluded to 1 per group because of stacking issues.

Mango Pies are the way to go for now. They don’t rely on chance or have an internal cooldown to heal you everytime, even when dodging/kiting. Throw in a Maintenance Oil for all your crit needs.

Darxio.5672:

Mango Pies are the way to go for now. They don’t rely on chance or have an internal cooldown to heal you everytime, even when dodging/kiting. Throw in a Maintenance Oil for all your crit needs.

Tell that to all the Warriors who have to be in Melee.

Daecollo.9578:

yarpen.1364:

good change, this food was just too cheap and way way too good.

Because getting rid of options and making the game more cookiee cutter then it already is, is a good thing!

Whats so clever in making full (and full in 100%) glass cannon, stack some precision and use fast weapons? Glass cannon build should be for ppl with great skill, not for everyone with food.

It was just funny how warrior can heal from 20% hp to 100% with one stupid whirling axe. Healing surge heals for less…

The current situation makes builds that would be powerful even without consumables a bit less powerful but it also destroys classes where pies make or break the build. Great.

If nobody had a problem with it, there would not be 10+ threads of it spreading across the forums.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Daecollo.9578:

Yep, I can’t really play my Pistol Whip thief anymore, now I “MUST” go stealth critical copy cutter thief.

That may be true, but this is a good fix that was definitely long overdue regardless of its side effects. Hopefully now that you can’t use those builds as effectively will be a signal for ANet as to what to buff in the next patch. They’ve already said that they buff things based on usage, so something going completely unused is a definite signal for them to fix it up.

My only question is: What is the internal cooldown?

They are well aware of several problems for the ranger class. Terrible build diversity, bad pet AI, untouched weapons, most players don’t even know what spirits look like etc. All these things have been around since the BWEs and the devs even commented on them during an interview. This was months ago and the class is actually getting worse with this patch.

Don’t expect anything to happen to any of your builds any time soon. Build diversity is going to stagnate until people get bored of running the same two builds before they eventually quit for greener pastures.

I’ll be mailing Anet every single day until they give me back my Engineer. I almost got arthritis in my left hand from spamming ‘1’ in that kittenty grenade build. They reeeally want me to go back.

Sahfur.5612:

Hahaha. Go try one of the other builds that can solo dungeons and can -still- solo dungeons without any food buffs or any time spent learning the class or really any skill.

Then tell me it was OP. It was used in legitimate builds as well and now this game has even less balance and build diversity. You don’t say?

From the point of view of someone who really delved deep into the mechanics (I know math and tactical theory, I know, shocking really) and looked at the game without rose colored glasses, this was a poorly thought out nerf and it could have been done better. At the very least they could have made sure that melee had viable builds to ensure survival vs. ranged before the change.

I am glad I won’t tank for you all now. I am going to remove enough toughness from my build to ensure the mobs don’t bother with me (its calculated with power and tough, partially, hence why I was able to take mobs off of you), down spy kits every time my health gets to 50%, and let you all die for the lulz while I stand in place. Not a thing anyone can do about it, either. I just solo’ed an orrian champion giant and two veteran karka regardless! That means I have a useless class comparatively to you and can still do whatever the heck I want. It really is an “l2p build issue”(except in reverse)… don’t approve of the constant nerfs to warriors and l2p instead. I do hope the satisfaction of knowing that I will be cozy as I pop a spy kit and let the mobs wash over you like a cancer (instead of surviving naturally and helping you) is enough to warm your heart as you lie on the ground. Also, I didn’t use zerker/omnom. I used knights and shouts+ omnom to keep you alive yet there are other classes with far more powerful builds for survival.

You have created a monster, and the monster is going to love popping those spy kits.

I’ve also gone to learn about market flipping,which I only didn’t do before because I was a nice person. I can’t wait to make it more difficult for you to afford your cookie cutter build gear while profiting from it.
——————————————————————————————
Careful.

What.

You.

Wish.

For.

Edit: I would like to encourage everyone who used to use omnomberry to help their group survivability and weren’t using just zerker (heck, you zerker guys can join us too), to use the following tactics to ensure that people feel the full consequences of their actions.

1. Play normally until your health is 25-50%.
2. Run to the nearest class that wanted this nerf, pop a spy kit, let the mobs slaughter them.
3. Laugh a bit, continue on.

If enough of us do it? No, they won’t roll back the changes. Maybe they will realize that they need to look at melee balance a bit though. Or not, at least you will survive as much as you used to. You are all that matters to you, after all. Last time you cared about those team mate things, you got nerfed into the ground to the point of uselessness.

I’m talking to you warriors, carry those spy kits with pride.

I was using this with Full Knights, now I can barely tank anything, when I used to be able to help my group with a sturdy body, I just melt in 3-4 seconds to dungeon mobs.

As someone who just learned of this exploit… LOL

Dresden.1736:

As someone who just learned of this exploit… LOL

Except it wasn’t an exploit.

Daecollo.9578:

Dresden.1736:

As someone who just learned of this exploit… LOL

Except it wasn’t an exploit.

Yes, it was clearly working the way the intended it, hence why they left it the way it was and didn’t apply the cooldown to ALL similar food types, right?