Guild Wars 2

I have to agree with the OP. I bought this game for the sole purpose that I could play the way I wanted to play, do what I enjoy doing in a game, not having worries about gear checks, falling behind in game, dealing with elitists, gated into certain play styles, builds, and professions well that was all a lie by Anet. Everything I bought this game for is now is a LIE going back on what they said they would deliver on .I just want to play the way I want to play. If I want to run the same path in a dungeon than that should be fine if I want to farm in the same spot for hours that should be fine if I just want to hang out in one zone fine
Anet continues to punish players whom are just playing the way they want to play
I am sure the fanboi’s will chime in with some sort of this and some sort of that but you know what,, this is my play style and that is why I bought this game is to-do what I wanted to-do not what fanboi’s and elitists say the game should be played

I don’t want to do this guild missions on friday, saturday or sunday nights! And i don’t care about some pink quagauqauan (biggest marketing scam/money sink game can have)
So how is this still casual/play the way you want game?
And community already told them how 1 time world event sucks.

Seems like a lot of the GW1 players I encounter in these forums are so DRAMATIC. I never played GW1, so I don’t know what is making you guys this way, but kitten – calm down a bit!

critickitten.1498:

1) A lot of people have praised the new dailies as “easier to complete”, but not only is this grossly untrue in many cases, it’s missing the point to begin with.

The new dailies have similar objectives as the old ones, only this time you have to kill people/ do events in certain zones instead of anywhere. The new system helps spread the population across zones, instead of congesting in Bloodtide Coast (outside LA) to do the Daily. For one thing, the new daily managed to get people moving instead of camping in one zone, and it succeeded at that. Also, the new dailies ARE indeed easier to complete if you have a bit of experience with the game. So overall the new dailies didn’t miss the point, instead they were a welcome addition that should’ve happened sooner.

2) One of my favorite features of GW1 was the concept of horizontal progression. I had come from a lot of MMOs that focused around getting the biggest numbers, then chasing the next set of big numbers, and eventually that grind became too much for me, leading to me falling behind and quitting.

When Ascended+ gear comes, you can post again, until then there is nothing to see here, move along.

3) I don’t feel as though I can trust the developers themselves any more, because they don’t say the same things, and some of the claims they do make are later revealed to be outright false or misleading.

That’s true to some extend, but not serious enough to hurt trust. How exactly is the precursor deal or the aoe nerf so horribly important? It’s not.

Amos.8760:

Seems like a lot of the GW1 players I encounter in these forums are so DRAMATIC. I never played GW1, so I don’t know what is making you guys this way, but kitten – calm down a bit!

It’s the people who wanted Guild Wars 2 to be Guild Wars 1 just with better graphics, happens a lot when a sequel for a famous game is released.

Martin Kerstein.3071:

attract more views.

Your post alone has gave this thread more views than any title would have.

Amos.8760:

Seems like a lot of the GW1 players I encounter in these forums are so DRAMATIC. I never played GW1, so I don’t know what is making you guys this way, but kitten – calm down a bit!

I’m a GW1 player.

GW2 was fine for a long time. I even bit my tongue when ascended items were initially released.

However, now we have multiple time gates to statistical advantages with the laurel and commendation currencies. Instead of building on the current currencies (gold, gems, karma, dungeon tokens, and badges of honor), we are seeing stat advantages that reward unskilled/low effort play. Instead, they are essentially saying “log in for one month, get a stat based reward; join a large guild AND log in for one month, get another stat based reward”

That is NOT ok. I’ve defended everything they’ve done, but this is not right. This was supposed to be a game you could put down for a few months and get right back in. What the hell happened.

Azjenco.9425:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Azjenco.9425:

What if ascended items stood next to exotics? Instead of being the next step, ascended could have had different forms of stats and bonuses not found on exotics. If ascended items were represented in new ways, then it could have opened options and have you make meaningful choices about how you wish to build your character in different ways.

Problem! I think all the stat type distributions are covered by Exotics. And the ones which aren’t covered I’m . . . tentatively sure wouldn’t be very useful. They’d be horizontal enough if they were:

- Lacking an upgrade slot you could slot Runes/Crests/Jewels into.
- Infusions contained only Agony Resistance and one stat bonus. Set that bonus to the highest value a Crest contains.
- Only Trinkets.

You see, that’s my biggest concern. Runes are completely excluded from ascended gear, though I’m not sure how ascended armor will be handled when it’s inevitably added into the game. Taking them away means removing another part of itemization choice. I really like Infusions, but Runes should still have a place. Maybe allow a certain infusion to slot a rune.

What I meant by different forms of stats and bonuses, I didn’t necessarily mean variations on the existing bonuses. What I rather meant was completely new forms of stats that distinguish then from exotics.
To give a rough example of what I had in mind, an ascended item could look something like this:
80 Power: +40 if you have a boon on you
80 Precision
80 Toughness: +40 if you have a condition on you

or

80 Precision/Condition Damage
80 Vitality/Toughness
80 Power/Healing
Switch from one set to the other whenever you switch between your weapons.

Again, this is a rough example, but there are ways to differentiate one gear type from another to maintain a level of horizontal progression. Also as an example, perhaps some rune effects can already be placed on ascended gear to substitute a stat. This is something not found on exotics and would really distinguish them from ascended gear.

Doing horizontal gear choices is really a place for designers to get creative and add deep choices for the players. Like I said, that would actually make you choose between which gear might make your build more interesting, rather than going from an exotic shaman set to an ascended shaman set.

The trouble is that your offers of reducing it to two stats with higher values instead of three with lesser values is . . . that people are still getting an edge with proper work statistically. At least, in the ways they care about.

Honestly I think having it be trinkets only might be one of the better answers, because Agony Resistance from those six slots should be okay, right?

Azjenco.9425:

Ogden Stonehealer.

But to be less flippant, I actually don’t think there’s anything mechanics-based from GW1 which was directly carried over. I’m struggling to think and the only other thing is the distinct separation of PvP into its own section of the game not affected by PvE/WvW.

Blacklight.2871:

There was a time, right up to around launch, that I had full confidence in this company as well. Everything they did, not just spoke about, indicated that they were keen advocates for their players and were doing everything in our best interests.

However, in the months since, the decisions they’ve made have made it clear to me that player enjoyment no longer was a priority. It’s as if some Wormtongue is whispering treasonous notions into their ears as they sleep, and those ideas are being thrown into the game without any thought.

Personally, I don’t have much of a problem with game bugs or technical weaknesses. I can live with those. It’s the actual decisions on how things should work in the game that I find abhorrent. ArenaNet has consistently succeeded in driving wedges into their player base, fracturing us with design mechanics that could so easily have been inclusive rather than exclusive.

The most recent example is the guild missions, which clearly have caused no end of anger and consternation with a huge cross-section of players. It would have been so easy to avoid this, but ArenaNet made a conscious decision to go forward with it anyway. That tells me they are either clueless as to what affect these types of mechanics are going to have on their players, or they just don’t care. That’s a long way from the company I remember from the months and years prior to release, who seemed to have their finger squarely on the pulse of their target audience and knew exactly what we were wanting from a game.

Frankly, it feels like completely different team from the one that got me hooked on the game with nothing more than a design manifesto. This one is not only out of touch with their community, but is borderline incompetent.

So yes, I would say that I no longer trust them. I’m not even sure who the hell they are anymore.

Agree 100%. The company that developed this wonderful game simply isn’t the same company maintaining it. I want the original team back, badly.

Blacklight.2871:

lots of words.

I couldn’t agree with you more.

the problem is how our economie works…. endless growth….

is a companies goal to make tons of money or do they try to make ppl happy?

why do companies sell horse meat instead of beef? its maximizing profit….

companies give u the feeling they care…. but they dont rly care…. they only care about your money….
im not surprised about their decisions….
the most important thing is to realize that every company treats u like that…. they r fooling us….

they let u think they r an “angel” but they r acutally the devil….

appel lets u think they r soooo nice and cool….. they r just….. iphones r produced by children in china….. the hole world is fake…. im sick of it

To be honest… the “jilted lover” tone of your post is very very off-putting.

I think perhaps you need to step back and get some perspective.

Intimating that a company making a game needs to have your best interest in mind… that you can no longer trust them… that decisions they have made emotionally hurts you… is kind of creepy, and you might possibly need to take a step back and re-evaluate some of your views and priorities.

There have been decisions that I haven’t liked… the way the new guild content has been handled has been absolutely abysmal in my opinion. But to say I’ve lost trust in anyone over it? Arenanet is company… who is producing a product… a product they want you to buy and then occasionally make micro-transactions with if you feel satisfied. They don’t want your trust… that want a transaction with you… a transference of their effort for your money. And I’m sure most of them would love it if you adore the game, and have fun… but placing a burden on these people you don’t know, the enormity of which being your trust, emotional well-being, and your best interests is beyond any responsibility they signed on for when they sold you that disc containing their work.

You aren’t a jilted lover… you aren’t a best friend, brother, sister, or parent… you aren’t a spouse… long time associate… or even an occasionally “bumped into” acquaintance. You are a consumer… their customer… valued for your ability to trade your currency for their time. There can be a collaborative fondness bourne in having similar interests, sharing in jokes they’ve placed into the game, and even feedback (that’s the nature of social interaction, from which true association can arise)… but the burden you are choosing to place on them is incalculably weightier than any burden of expectation or familiarity they would ever consider placing on you (even if they ever had you in mind).

killcannon.2576:

It is a gear chase, and it will always be. Before ascended, it was a gear chase. It’s a mmo. I have five alts as well (my poor mesmer is neglected). What is your answer, then, to the gear chase problem? Once you buy something for one toon they all have it? It’s a juggle to try to keep people satisfied and to keep them playing.

It’s a juggle that I thnk Ascended tips way too far into the grind category. I don’t think that buying something for one char should give it to all, that would be too easy. I think exotics were fine, and about the limit for what the gear chase should be. We don’t even have full ascended gear in the game (only 6 out of the 16-18 pieces of gear), and it already takes a month to get just those 6 pieces. By the time every piece is added, we’ll be up to 3 months (maybe more if weapons/armor take more time/items) to equip a single character.

mrstealth.6701:

killcannon.2576:

It is a gear chase, and it will always be. Before ascended, it was a gear chase. It’s a mmo. I have five alts as well (my poor mesmer is neglected). What is your answer, then, to the gear chase problem? Once you buy something for one toon they all have it? It’s a juggle to try to keep people satisfied and to keep them playing.

It’s a juggle that I thnk Ascended tips way too far into the grind category. I don’t think that buying something for one char should give it to all, that would be too easy. I think exotics were fine, and about the limit for what the gear chase should be. We don’t even have full ascended gear in the game (only 6 out of the 16-18 pieces of gear), and it already takes a month to get just those 6 pieces. By the time every piece is added, we’ll be up to 3 months (maybe more if weapons/armor take more time/items) to equip a single character.

New pieces of gear can be acquired from different parts of the game. It stands to reason that armor/weapons will also be available from another part of the game, so if all those ways were available now, it would take you far less than 3 months to get everything.

The only exception is laurels, they already shown us that everything will be available with laurels (but at a high cost). You can only get Rings from Fotm and only Accessories from Guild Commendations, maybe in the future only laurels will have everything, that would mean it will take a long time to equip a character if you only do it through laurels, if your playstyle is diverse enough it will take far less time.

As always, OP has nailed it. ‘Trust’ is significant here. I don’t believe the developer is malevolent or even shady. Yeah, you can see the lighted road to gem store and the milk and cookies on the table if you peer in the window, but, hey, they’re a business and they have bills to pay and code to develop. They (and the players) are also the victims of the FotM (flavor of the month usage) monetization scheme. Everyone’s doing it; I don’t blame them uniquely. No, my issue with trust lies in the fact that they are as likely to shoot themselves in the foot as not. Every time they pull out their gun (patch/update) the bullet is no more likely to follow one trajectory than another.

And, this is the biggest change for me since launch. I didn’t play GW1; I came from WoW to escape the grind. (I like irony so I can appreciate the humor here.) I trusted Anet implicitly out of the gate. Why? Read the manifesto, watch the promo videos. These were thoughtful people committed to a vision. It’s sad to even think about those days at this point.

At any rate, the 2/26 patch was the impetus I needed to quit playing. I had planned on at least waiting till March to see if miracles were real, but after seeing the reversion of Orr to even more annoying than it was previously and new tuning of dungeons and Krait, I just gave up. I have 9 level 80 characters which is a little embarrassing at this point. I’ve played the game a lot. And, my experience with GW2 is not all negative. Get ready for this, it’s one of the very best games I’ve ever played. And, were it to evolve from its original DNA it would be my home for the foreseeable future. I’m sure I will check in from time to time to look for my miracle, but I won’t be playing the game.

maddoctor.2738:

New pieces of gear can be acquired from different parts of the game. It stands to reason that armor/weapons will also be available from another part of the game, so if all those ways were available now, it would take you far less than 3 months to get everything.

The only exception is laurels, they already shown us that everything will be available with laurels (but at a high cost). You can only get Rings from Fotm and only Accessories from Guild Commendations, maybe in the future only laurels will have everything, that would mean it will take a long time to equip a character if you only do it through laurels, if your playstyle is diverse enough it will take far less time.

The only semi-reasonable way to get them right now is Fractals, and that’s only rings and a back item. And even then, it only applies to people that actually want to do Fractals…and doing so daily if they want to get this stuff without taking a ridiculous amount of time. I currently have no desire to do Fractals. I’ve seen all them a few times, and that is enough for me. Granted, that is partially out of disgust towards the gear grind they represent. I shouldn’t have to do them because Anet decided to leave Ascended rings out of Jewerler crafting, karma vendors, non-FotM loot tables, and dungeon token vendors.

I’m not even giong to attempt to call Guild Commendations a viable means because that leaves you completley at the mercy of when your guild leadership decides to do these, and whether you happen to be on. There is also the issue of small guilds having to deal with the massive influence requirements, and the fact that they can’t even complete most the missions anyway. Realistically, getting a piece from these will most likely take much longer that doing Fractals. Unless you’re lucky enough to always be on when you guild is doing a mission.

That leaves laurels, which are just a time sink. There are a lot of players for which this is going to be the only option. All of those players in small guilds of friends that only get around to doing a dungeon/Fractals when they’re all on at the same time. This is our way of playing, and now we’re being punished for it. And that is why I don’t trust them any more.

The most important part of GW2’s philosphy was getting rewarded for playing how you wanted to play, and that has already been tossed out the window. I don’t want to do Fractals and 500-player raids, so I get the short end of the stick and have to wait a month to get every single piece of gear. What about all of these crafting professions I wasted time and money leveling? Just let me craft this junk.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Azjenco.9425:

Ogden Stonehealer.

But to be less flippant, I actually don’t think there’s anything mechanics-based from GW1 which was directly carried over. I’m struggling to think and the only other thing is the distinct separation of PvP into its own section of the game not affected by PvE/WvW.

I’d say that the short skillbar with (partially) customizable skills is also a retained GW idea, even if the actual implementation was significantly changed and dumbed down.

You are right, though, at the moment i just can’t think of anything more than those two things.

I like GW2 but it feels like they are continuously adding typical MMO grind tactics like the new dailies and the new currencies to keep us on the wheel rather than adding reasons for use to keep playing and to interact with one another.

The only mistake the devs really made was launching the game before they implemented ascended gear. 99% of these complaints wouldn’t exist if ascended gear was in at launch. The whole vertical progression wasn’t a thing until after launch is just plain dumb. I know I didn’t start with level 80 exotics. I had to vertically progress through 80 levels and 5 gear tiers before I hit the max.

The problem was the max came way too fast and people hit the brick wall that was the legendary grind. Now we have ascended gear to add a point further in the progression that gives a reasonable goal. If they add another tier after ascended next year then you may have an argument of a endless gear grind. But so far i’m just not seeing it.

The dailies have been SIGNIFICANTLY improved. They are so much better then they originally were. I don’t know how you could possibly argue otherwise since the requirements are easier then they were, contain the same options as originally, and now additionally added more options for more play styles and also encourage the use of all the game world.

GW1 offered quite some dramatic scenes. If there is any place we learnt to be dramatic, it’s the dramatic GW1 cutscenes of dramatica.

bytes.1650:

-snip-
Instead we have to fight tooth and nail (after the fact), over every little thing with the devs and their sometimes blatant stubbornness (the ordeal with the FoV and camera distance comes to mind). -snip

I think that particular issue (which also falls in line with many other issues mentioned here) can only be attributed to some kind of “management by committee” deal they’ve got going at the studio. Obviously, lots of systems are interconnected – you need to run ideas and fixes by those in charge of those systems to make sure something doesn’t break down the line … but then there are things that just doesn’t make sense:

Jon Peter’s response to the whole FoV issue a while back comes to mind. I’ll not go into that. It does show though, that bugfixes and essential features that are just plain missing from the game, gets implemented and prioritized in a very strange and awkward way sometimes. For example:

• Guild missions et al … thank you … but, what about giving us some of the core features guild leaders need … even something as simple as having last-login date/time stamps for guild members? Hello?

• Why must it be so darn cumbersome to get some people involved in making a menu option for adjustable FoV and camera heights?

• Why even bother pumping out amazing content when we can’t get core … core functionality sorted – and it doesn’t get much more basic than at least having an in-game camera you don’t have to battle with so, so much!

I don’t know. I love this game and my faith in it’s producers are still unwavering … but only just. It just annoys me that we are almost half a year after the game’s release … and we’re dealing with problems that, IMHO, should have been sorted out long before the beta event even started.

One core flaw in my opinion: Looking too far ahead and not looking back and revisiting and fixing fundamental issues with this otherwise amazing game. Come on guys. Less meetings, less politics. Just get it done.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implied_in_fact_contract:

As defined by the United States Supreme Court,¹ it is “an agreement ‘implied in fact’” as “founded upon a meeting of minds, which, although not embodied in an express contract, is inferred, as a fact, from conduct of the parties showing, in the light of the surrounding circumstances, their tacit understanding.”

^ this is the problem with the manifesto, when the devs say exotics = legendaries = BIS
and refer to legendaries as an optional cosmetic grind. then change it

legendaries are not an optional cosmetic grind, if you want to be competitive or play the game they originally sold and not hamster wheel 2. they have explicitly stated they will be BIS forever, when a new tier comes out you get a free upgrade, and have a statistical advantage for the first few weeks it takes people to get their new weapons

to those who seem to be misinformed about ascended gear, its is the final rarity, not the final tier, it was stated there would be additional tiers within rarities in the future.

trust died in nov. Seriously who gives almost no notice on major game and design changes before pushing them out, changes they know are flawed? everytime the devs do something like declare player concerns a “xfiles level conspiracy” then turn around a week or so later with a “found the problem its fixed this time for reals” they lose a little of the credibility they have left in some players eyes

whenever they talk about progression i wonder how they’ll mutilate the game next, first it was dyes, then ascended now guilds soon spvp, wont be much left at this rate

jewelcrafting is now obsolete outside of gifts, the best items it can craft are sub par and use the same materials you’ll be putting towards your BIS gear so if you bother you are actually extending the amount of time it’ll take you to get it…

the direction they are going has turned this into a single player game for me.

Shadow Blade.1324:

to those who seem to be misinformed about ascended gear, its is the final rarity, not the final tier, it was stated there would be additional tiers within rarities in the future.

Dig that quote up and link it, because I really want to read the context from which it was taken.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

The only mistake the devs really made was launching the game before they implemented ascended gear. 99% of these complaints wouldn’t exist if ascended gear was in at launch. The whole vertical progression wasn’t a thing until after launch is just plain dumb. I know I didn’t start with level 80 exotics. I had to vertically progress through 80 levels and 5 gear tiers before I hit the max.

… because 99% of the people that complain about ascended gear would never have bothered to get involved…

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Shadow Blade.1324:

to those who seem to be misinformed about ascended gear, its is the final rarity, not the final tier, it was stated there would be additional tiers within rarities in the future.

Dig that quote up and link it, because I really want to read the context from which it was taken.

Even if ascended is finall tier (wich it probably won’t be with expansion) they can just add stronger infusions.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Shadow Blade.1324:

to those who seem to be misinformed about ascended gear, its is the final rarity, not the final tier, it was stated there would be additional tiers within rarities in the future.

Dig that quote up and link it, because I really want to read the context from which it was taken.

As a matter of fact, I would also like to see that context of your non-contextual statement of the possible fact that it would be stated in a context of possible facts.

Fortuna.7259:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

The only mistake the devs really made was launching the game before they implemented ascended gear. 99% of these complaints wouldn’t exist if ascended gear was in at launch. The whole vertical progression wasn’t a thing until after launch is just plain dumb. I know I didn’t start with level 80 exotics. I had to vertically progress through 80 levels and 5 gear tiers before I hit the max.

… because 99% of the people that complain about ascended gear would never have bothered to get involved…

I don’t think that’s a good solid look at what’s being said. If Ascended tier items had been in the game from the start . . .

- They wouldn’t feel as though they were crammed in there and then slowly added as new things were being added. They’d be there in a whole and finished state, and very likely not earned in this . . . haphazard fashion which looks to be something implemented poorly.

- There wouldn’t be as big a notice of them being added after Exotic, it would just be “the top tier past Exotics”. There wouldn’t be a feeling of “for two months I’ve been at the best in my Exotic gear and now I’m suddenly not”. It would simply be “I have Ascended gear and now I’ve got the best in the game”.

- It wouldn’t have been “added grind” as far as it was called in November, nor would it have been “gear treadmill creep” since it would have existed from the words “the servers are now live”. It would have existed, and been part of the game like Exotics were.

( N.B. there were comments about how hard Exotic was to acquire as well, that I saw once upon a time. )

In short, if they’d always been in the game . . . it wouldn’t be what we are seeing now, it would be something mechanically different. Better? Worse? Who knows, but a lot of the complaints probably wouldn’t be valid if they weren’t added post-launch.

Shadow Blade.1324:

-snip- to those who seem to be misinformed about ascended gear, its is the final rarity, not the final tier, it was stated there would be additional tiers within rarities in the future. -snip-

To those who’s been asking about where this information is quoted from – I think there might be a slight misunderstanding. From what I understand, ArenaNet will introduce other ascended gear items for the other slots in the future, not neccesarliy other tiers within the ascended quality level. Kindly correct me if I’m wrong. Here is quote from Chris Whiteside:

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Does that mean we’ll get new tiers/quality levels in say, 6 months … a year … more? I don’t think you can discount that possibility since player progression seems to be something that’s always on their minds. However, as it stands, it looks like Legendary will eventually become BIS for all slots, and (hopefully) that’s were it will end.

A lot of people forgets some core facts that made GW2 the way it is, which is not Anet’s fault but rather fault of the majority of this community.

1) When this game’s progression was “cosmetic only”, this forum was a big hole of complaints that GW2 had “no endgame” because “there is no carrot”.

2) As a consequence, Anet created a progression system that gives you a bit more power, but were smart enough to make it so some items have “time gating” so that the aforementioned people cannot simply grind it out and come here again crying “no endgame”:

3) As another consequence a part of the community is unhappy.
But realistically, how many are we? 5%? 10%?
Is Anet supposed to not cater to their 3 millions, but to us 200 thousands?

Majority all asked for progression and you’ve been given it.
Majority asked for a lasting endgame and they made it so you can’t burn your way to the carrot (DR, time gates, RNG, etc).
When you think about it, all of what we have now is exactly what the majority wanted.

Maybe we should realize that players like us who wanted a cosmetic progression etc etc simply aren’t enough to make GW2 successful.
The majority of MMO gamers are still addicted to gear progression – howevery irrelevant and minimal it is like in our case here.

Luckily, Anet was genius enough to not break the formula; there is no required grinding as you can get anything by playing normally, and the new gear progression is not a major factor (nor is gear in general) compared to skill.
They managed to make both playstyles viable.

Still, the whole “I want to play how I want” is a chimera – no game exists that allows you to do whatever you want, not even sandbox games went that far go figure a themepark MMO.
3 millions players means 3 millions “ways to play the game”. You cannot create a game that can be played in 3 millions ways.
MMO themeparks will always offer a few “games” that can be played in certain ways etc, but it’s still a themepark.

Makovorn.1706:

Shadow Blade.1324:

-snip- to those who seem to be misinformed about ascended gear, its is the final rarity, not the final tier, it was stated there would be additional tiers within rarities in the future. -snip-

To those who’s been asking about where this information is quoted from – I think there might be a slight misunderstanding. From what I understand, ArenaNet will introduce other ascended gear items for the other slots in the future, not neccesarliy other tiers within the ascended quality level. Kindly correct me if I’m wrong. Here is quote from Chris Whiteside:

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Does that mean we’ll get new tiers/quality levels in say, 6 months … a year … more? I don’t think you can discount that possibility since player progression seems to be something that’s always on their minds. However, as it stands, it looks like Legendary will eventually become BIS for all slots, and (hopefully) that’s were it will end.

Thanks, but that’s not what I was recalling as the quoted material. It’s relevant, but I do recall someone saying at one point that they could potentially add more, but had no plans to.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Shadow Blade.1324:

to those who seem to be misinformed about ascended gear, its is the final rarity, not the final tier, it was stated there would be additional tiers within rarities in the future.

Dig that quote up and link it, because I really want to read the context from which it was taken.

reddit AMA following lost shores

[–]ArenaNetTeam[S] 112 points 3 months ago
Hi All,
Here is the reply to the second question:
E2:Ascended gears are making a lot of people worry about an ever-increasing gear treadmill. Many players did not want the exotic/legendary system to change, and they don’t like ascended gears. Was this expected? Can this be something fixed in a painless way? Can it happen?
Yes the response was definitively expected. We did not intent for the information to come out this way. Going back to my previous answer the issue is that we believe in the vertical progression system we had pre launch and that the introduction of an element into the system post launch was going to cause concern but something we believe in. That is why there is no plan for new Rarity Tiers of loot but there are plans to enhance or gain items within the existing rarity design whose properties continue on a shallow power curve.This said we certainly don’t want to create a system where itemization blocks progression in the game globally and we also need to be careful of this in areas such as FotM if the primary reward isn’t available elsewhere in the game. So in short its an exciting problem but one that has been poorly communicated and handled.
And for this i take responsibility and apologies. However the future of this philosophy and the design challenges it throws up are going to lead to a pioneering world and one that we are very excited about.
So anyway i kind of went of topic here so in short. We don’t intend to have an item rarity gear treadmill, we intend for the progression for gaining these rewards to have lots of different avenues for different types of player and where possible lower no fun grind within the whole of the game.
I hope this answers that question. I will be right back.
Chris

edit : link if you want to re read the whole AMA http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13tuac/im_the_studio_design_director_on_guild_wars_2_ama/

Shadow Blade.1324:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Shadow Blade.1324:

to those who seem to be misinformed about ascended gear, its is the final rarity, not the final tier, it was stated there would be additional tiers within rarities in the future.

Dig that quote up and link it, because I really want to read the context from which it was taken.

reddit AMA following lost shores

[–]ArenaNetTeam[S] 112 points 3 months ago
Hi All,
Here is the reply to the second question:
E2:Ascended gears are making a lot of people worry about an ever-increasing gear treadmill. Many players did not want the exotic/legendary system to change, and they don’t like ascended gears. Was this expected? Can this be something fixed in a painless way? Can it happen?
Yes the response was definitively expected. We did not intent for the information to come out this way. Going back to my previous answer the issue is that we believe in the vertical progression system we had pre launch and that the introduction of an element into the system post launch was going to cause concern but something we believe in. That is why there is no plan for new Rarity Tiers of loot but there are plans to enhance or gain items within the existing rarity design whose properties continue on a shallow power curve.This said we certainly don’t want to create a system where itemization blocks progression in the game globally and we also need to be careful of this in areas such as FotM if the primary reward isn’t available elsewhere in the game. So in short its an exciting problem but one that has been poorly communicated and handled.
And for this i take responsibility and apologies. However the future of this philosophy and the design challenges it throws up are going to lead to a pioneering world and one that we are very excited about.
So anyway i kind of went of topic here so in short. We don’t intend to have an item rarity gear treadmill, we intend for the progression for gaining these rewards to have lots of different avenues for different types of player and where possible lower no fun grind within the whole of the game.
I hope this answers that question. I will be right back.
Chris

Yeah, that’s what I recall seeing. Interesting and I wonder how they handle it . . . some part expects me to see them do that via upgrade slot items.

might be upgrade slots or it might just be a new tier, they haven’t clarified, i wouldnt put it past them to copy other games and see ascended t2 etc its easier than implementing a new upgrade slot for all tiers and redoing all the current items.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Yeah, that’s what I recall seeing. Interesting and I wonder how they handle it . . . some part expects me to see them do that via upgrade slot items.

Might be many things. Either some additional upgrade slots, or they may be referring to level increases… or it may mean exactly what they said – better stats while keeping the tier name.

Shadow Blade.1324:

might be upgrade slots or it might just be a new tier, they haven’t clarified, i wouldnt put it past them to copy other games and see ascended t2 etc its easier than implementing a new upgrade slot for all tiers and redoing all the current items.

Well . . . two options there without necessarily rewriting the items but just adding a flag to the target check.

“Imbued Crest of the Soldier”
Required Level: 80
Requires: Exotic

“Mistwrought Crest of the Soldier”
Required Level: 80
Requires: Ascended

critickitten.1498:

So I want to ask people, and I want you to be honest with yourselves as you answer: Do you feel that you can trust every word the developers say? Or do you approach their announcements as I do with quite a bit of caution and skepticism these days?

I treat the words of the devs as a if they were coming from a really skilled weather forecaster. They indicate a current trend, but they are subject to unexpected change/reduction/magnification. I know that in the end, every piece of software that is released by a company is subject to a number of influences beyond just “what would make the product more awesome.” The good companies try to limit that effect, but in the end…

Let me tell you this… Right this second, my boss and one of his peers are in a meeting with others who are a part of their “leadership team.” They are arguing to make sure that my team (software engineers, designers, product directors) are given the time we need to fix our current product. That product was released too early, so it’s had bugs that have been around too long and is nowhere near as awesome as we intended it to be. At the same time, other members of that meeting will be arguing that the rest of the company is stalled while they’re waiting on us to get things going. There’s some value in both perspectives.

I imagine the same things are happening on a daily basis at Anet.

Very well stated critickitten.1498.
Let me tell you about myself and how I feel about the current game.
I am a huge fan of Guild Wars 1. I was (and I use “was” because that is the correct term now) leader of a very active but small guild. I loved the game so much, I created my custom icons, wallpapers and even a screensaver. I even contected Anet to get permission to do all this as I wanted to share them with the community. I owned 3 copies of each game/expansion, 2 of which where all collectors editions. (thats 12 games and expansions with 8 of them being collectors). I purchased multiple slots on all and expanded storage all the way around. I have 50/50 in HOM and have every ranger pet in the game unlocked. I even have someone working on making me a life size copy of our guild cape to hang on my wall.

When GW2 was released, I got the collectors edition as well. Our guild from GW1 came to GW2 with high hopes, and expanded our ranks quickly. I purchased the charr plush, and even have an in game charr with the same name “Charlie the Charr”. I purchased gems to fill out all my storage and bank slots. I have 2 level 80’s, 1 with 100% world completion.

Last night was the first night since release I did not log in. My guild is dead. I was the only one who had logged on in months. I no longer do dungeons as the community as not “nice” to play with, lets leave it at that. FOTM naever had any draw to me. I did my dailies every day, just from wondering around and playing, not really even paying attention to them until I was ready to log off, just to see what I needed to do. Useally they where done far before I was . While I still love the franchise, this game is just not something I enjoy any longer. The living story seems like kind of a joke. The content was finished in 15 miniutes time, tops. Yes, I know more is coming, but there is nothing to do while I am waiting.

I too feel betrayed and lied to by the devs. This is not the game they said it was going to be, it is not what they promised us. I want to love the game, but each patch makes the game less and less fun to play. I probobly have spent over $500.00 between the game itself and gems, and I can honestly say I did get my monies worth, but I just can’t see any reason to keep playing. There are no goals worth working for and nothing that actually feels fun to play. I don’t see myself playing again any time soon.
I know many here will just make some snide remark, "bye bye, don’t the the door hit you, etc, etc, but I would hope that a few of you, the devs included, would see that I am truly sad with the current situation.
(no, you can’t have my stuff)

1. how can you be so emotionally attached to this game? we all have childhood classics to remember how fun it was to play tetris, mario…etc but why so emotionally serious towards this game? It’s as if GW2 is your ex-gf who cheated on you.

2. if you think this game is grindy, or has a vertical progression, you have not tried any korean mmo at all. If you think RNG is bad in this game… try any webzen game.

3. I FEEL I can leave this game for a month and come back without feeling behind. all you really need is a level 80 with a set of exotic gear, and you can do pretty much anything you want in this game, WvW, Dungeons, World Events… etc. Sure ascended gear has a little better stats, but it’s not making a big difference, and you can easily get it by doing dailies (EASY compare to dungeons and fotm).

3. IN THE END, developers work for ANET, and ANET is a subsidiary of NCSOFT, NCSOFT is a public company and have shareholders. Basic business class will tell you, any public traded company’s first and foremost loyalty is to its shareholders, which means profit. FORTUNATELY, ANET believes that good customer services, gamer satisfaction, and quality content update result in more profit. One day, when GW2 is no longer a “cash cow”, and it’s in the NCSOFT’s best financial interest to make most out of it regardless of players’ concerns, they will do whatever it takes to make sure the company’s bottom line makes their shareholders happy. Developers of GW2’s loyalty is not to you, when the worst happens, they need to protect their shareholders, not the players. stop putting in so much emotion into a game.

Is the perfect relationship one that has never endured a struggle or issue before? I feel like this is unhealthy and unrealistic impression I get from your post.

1.) Kill variety in orr? I still had to leave the map most of the time if I wanted to complete that. Also, don’t you think if you designed content such as keg brawl in your game and knew most people ignored it, that you would want to provide incentive for people to try it out? There are probably people who never knew what it was before that like playing it now.

2.) In regards to vertical progression, you make it sound like it’s already been confirmed that they intend to go the gear grind method like most other popular MMOs. You are preemptively upset over a decision they probably haven’t even finalized yet. How can you act so sure that it will be this one way? Fractals 10+ are the only thing that can feel somewhat exclusive because of gear and that hasn’t ruined the rest of the game.

3). This part of your post is the most unreasonable. You are picking things out like ad campaign manager when it comes to smearing another opponent. Yes I seen the issue with culling. I believe it had to due with prioritizing enemies being visible versus allies so in PVE, it caused the issue of several allied players being invisible. An issue they intend to fix.

The one thing Arena net always talk about is how they are an iterative company. They are going to make mistakes and learn from them. If you really love this game than I would suggest making peace with that fact. Putting them on a pedestal is just making every mistake seem much more greater than it really is. The game is still fun and it sounds like you still know that.

killcannon.2576:

Azjenco.9425:

I was referring to the insane amount of builds an itemization. It’s still here, but not quite as strong as I remember it from back then. Item drops and time spent were better back then, something the devs are still trying to get right. Also, dailies aren’t quite yet the Zhaisen missions of GW2 which I think ANet are trying to replicate here.

Some things just can’t be translated over.

The points I posted definitely has a place in GW2, and each of these were things that made GW1 a lot of fun.

• Builds – In Gw1 I remember going through the skills like they were a set of MtG cards. It was fun, but a major part of that was lost. I think it can be brought back if they’d implement some customization to weapon skills and if you can place certain utility skills in your elite slot. Maybe also add an elite heal skill then, maybe.
• Itemization – GW1’s didn’t have the potential the sequel has, but I still remember placing a lot of thought into the insignias and runes placed on my items. Upgrades in GW2 feel less important than they felt there. Perhaps if items had more slots, and you could combine runes to get added effects, and focus more on effects and less on numbers.
  For instance the numbers should be a bonus. Let’s say you add a few runes with condition effects, then you’ll get a condition damage bonus. Or if you have a few defensive runes, you’ll get a vitality and toughness bonus. It lets you have fun with the interesting effects, while the numbers are applied as bonuses.
• Drops – In GW2 you could kill certain bosses for specific special items. Why not give tough bosses in the world, like at the end of a mini dungeon a chance to drop one of many weapon skins? That way you can get specified rewards for playing content in the world.
• Zaishen – Clearly dailies are being propped up as Zaishen missions 2.0, but it just doesn’t feel right here. I like that dailies are being varied, but the specific goals don’t fit here. Why not add Consortium NPCs (since the Zhaisen is no more) that give zone specific goals, like the Zaishen missions. They can hand out bounties (kill a certain monster), vanquish (kill a certain amount in an area), mission (do a mini dungeon). These are just examples, but he objectives can be tweaked to make these quests more viable.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

The trouble is that your offers of reducing it to two stats with higher values instead of three with lesser values is . . . that people are still getting an edge with proper work statistically. At least, in the ways they care about.

Honestly I think having it be trinkets only might be one of the better answers, because Agony Resistance from those six slots should be okay, right?

Like I said, they were rough examples, ignore the stat numbers. Basically, they were meant to paint a picture of how there can be new ways of implementing new forms of stats on items, without doing the exact same thing with just larger numbers. What about adding burning damage on ascended items, or a continual regenerating effect? Again, these are just examples, but when it comes to itemization, the idea is to think outside the box.

I’d actually like it if ascended items remain on the trinket side of the inventory, but since ANet already said that more types of ascended items will be rolled out through the year, it’s already a certainty that we’ll be seeing ascended armors soon enough.

Blacklight.2871:

There was a time, right up to around launch, that I had full confidence in this company as well. Everything they did, not just spoke about, indicated that they were keen advocates for their players and were doing everything in our best interests.

However, in the months since, the decisions they’ve made have made it clear to me that player enjoyment no longer was a priority. It’s as if some Wormtongue is whispering treasonous notions into their ears as they sleep, and those ideas are being thrown into the game without any thought.

Personally, I don’t have much of a problem with game bugs or technical weaknesses. I can live with those. It’s the actual decisions on how things should work in the game that I find abhorrent. ArenaNet has consistently succeeded in driving wedges into their player base, fracturing us with design mechanics that could so easily have been inclusive rather than exclusive.

The most recent example is the guild missions, which clearly have caused no end of anger and consternation with a huge cross-section of players. It would have been so easy to avoid this, but ArenaNet made a conscious decision to go forward with it anyway. That tells me they are either clueless as to what affect these types of mechanics are going to have on their players, or they just don’t care. That’s a long way from the company I remember from the months and years prior to release, who seemed to have their finger squarely on the pulse of their target audience and knew exactly what we were wanting from a game.

Frankly, it feels like completely different team from the one that got me hooked on the game with nothing more than a design manifesto. This one is not only out of touch with their community, but is borderline incompetent.

So yes, I would say that I no longer trust them. I’m not even sure who the hell they are anymore.

Bravo! What an excellent way to phrase in a polite diplomatic way what many of us are feeling about Anet. Honestly I haven’t read such as a well put together comment that isn’t kittening constantly. +1 million

Honestly its comes to a point where players such as myself are reluctent to buy gems with real money because of the current direction. Funny enough it still confusing me quite a bit how Anet put in Ascended gear when there was such an uproar BEFORE it was implemented. Wasn’t this a hint of what players thought? What did Anet basically ignore this and put it in anyway? Then we accused of the sipplery slope fallacy. Honestly that is insulting and irratating.

To any Anet developer reading this will we the players be listened to? Will core issues be addressed?

For example a Looking for group (LFG) tool should have been implemented from the start! But we still have to use gw2lfg.com to find a group quickly if we can’t find anyone in the map we’re in or our guild(s) to go with us.

Threads like these are popping up constantly and yet nothing to address them is being done. And many of them question the direction Anet is going. If Anet wanted the WoW player market then they should have marketed TOWARDS them not Us. Not saying of course the getting WoW players is bad, imo the more the merryier but the gamming market was more casual/quasi-counsell market.

Fortuna.7259:

thisolderhead.5127:

Anyone not paying money to the gem store is a free loader, paying gamers are still subsidising your game play, I still think paying customers are better than you.

Actually, not quite.

The subtle reality is that your so-called “free loaders” are providing a service to the game company. They are providing “user-generated content” that makes the game more attractive and entices “big spenders” to spend liberally. In exchange, the game company provides them “free” entertainment.

Sorry you’re wrong. There is no user generated content in this title. Simply joining a group is not content creation. The only games that have that have a foundry system. Unless AN makes a foundry program for user created DE’s players are not creating content at all, they are using the content.

Blacklight.2871:

There was a time, right up to around launch, that I had full confidence in this company as well. Everything they did, not just spoke about, indicated that they were keen advocates for their players and were doing everything in our best interests.

However, in the months since, the decisions they’ve made have made it clear to me that player enjoyment no longer was a priority. It’s as if some Wormtongue is whispering treasonous notions into their ears as they sleep, and those ideas are being thrown into the game without any thought.

Personally, I don’t have much of a problem with game bugs or technical weaknesses. I can live with those. It’s the actual decisions on how things should work in the game that I find abhorrent. ArenaNet has consistently succeeded in driving wedges into their player base, fracturing us with design mechanics that could so easily have been inclusive rather than exclusive.

The most recent example is the guild missions, which clearly have caused no end of anger and consternation with a huge cross-section of players. It would have been so easy to avoid this, but ArenaNet made a conscious decision to go forward with it anyway. That tells me they are either clueless as to what affect these types of mechanics are going to have on their players, or they just don’t care. That’s a long way from the company I remember from the months and years prior to release, who seemed to have their finger squarely on the pulse of their target audience and knew exactly what we were wanting from a game.

Frankly, it feels like completely different team from the one that got me hooked on the game with nothing more than a design manifesto. This one is not only out of touch with their community, but is borderline incompetent.

So yes, I would say that I no longer trust them. I’m not even sure who the hell they are anymore.

The best way to put it imo. Wormtongue is an awesome touch btw.

That’s my problem with this whole thing, It’s all post launch decisions on ideals that are completely opposite of what we were all told in interviews and discussions with developers for years prior to launch.

Everything since has been completely against the original design of the game and the intent spoken by the developers. The money grabs (because seriously I just don’t accept that it took them 4 months to find a “kill credit” bug) the lack of content, the content of the kind that is 180 from their original plans, the lack of concern for the three weakest class players, the complete disregard of the crafters post Exotic, the ongoing problem of getting enough T6 materials for exotic gear much less the Legendaries. It’s not looking good imo.

tigirius.9014:

Fortuna.7259:

thisolderhead.5127:

Anyone not paying money to the gem store is a free loader, paying gamers are still subsidising your game play, I still think paying customers are better than you.

Actually, not quite.

The subtle reality is that your so-called “free loaders” are providing a service to the game company. They are providing “user-generated content” that makes the game more attractive and entices “big spenders” to spend liberally. In exchange, the game company provides them “free” entertainment.

Sorry you’re wrong. There is no user generated content in this title. Simply joining a group is not content creation. The only games that have that have a foundry system. Unless AN makes a foundry program for user created DE’s players are not creating content at all, they are using the content.

Most MMOs, especially GW2 and its DE Open World strategy, rely on the worlds being populated with people as part of the attraction. MMOs without others to play with tend to dry up. The people who aren’t rapidly buying gems are still filling WvWvW with battles and the open world with friends to do events with. The game depends on their existence.

Azjenco.9425:

I’d actually like it if ascended items remain on the trinket side of the inventory, but since ANet already said that more types of ascended items will be rolled out through the year, it’s already a certainty that we’ll be seeing ascended armors soon enough.

Well, it’s possible? But they had said that before rolling out the Amulets and now the Accessories. Hopefully they complete this with alternate ways of earning Back pieces and call it complete.

I haven’t “trusted” them since they went back on pretty much every description Mike O’Brien gave for this game prior to it’s release. They turned what was supposed to be the end of “Grindy games” into a grind…and each patch seems to add some new grind with new vertical gear.

I don’t know if I should be blaming the developers for this, or Mike O’Brien for just flat out lying in the first place. Perhaps it was never their plan and he was just filling the room with hot air? So maybe my lack of trust should be focused on a singular person, but since we haven’t had really any information about where their “grand design” for the game fell through, I have to continue to question the developers as a whole.

I’m playing this game currently because there isn’t another game out there that has close to what i’m looking for (WvW). As soon as that changes (Perhaps TESO, perhaps Archeage), unfortunately Anet lost whatever loyalty I had for them after GW1. I’ve said it in other threads before….this game is the sequel to GW in name and story ONLY.

maddoctor.2738:

It’s the people who wanted Guild Wars 2 to be Guild Wars 1 just with better graphics, happens a lot when a sequel for a famous game is released.

I think that is an oversimplification. First off, I think certain people want/expected different things to carry over from GW.

To me, what I was expecting from a sequel to GW1 was:

1. Skill-focused system – One of the things that for me made GW1 truly unique. Yes it was a pain to balance,and yes many skills were redundant but it was awesome being able to explore and unlock so many skills, and yet be limited to a small set in battle. Add to that (I would almost make this a separate section it was so amazing) the elite skill system was INCREDIBLY fun…hunting down monsters for your skills. And monsters that just didn’t appear in the exact same place every 3 hours like the “Meta events” in this game

2. Great PvP – Not just the SAME as GW1, an evolution of it. Guild battles were fun but I loved when I heard they were planning WvW. On this they mostly delivered what I expected. What I got when I bought GW2 was quite good. The only place they really fall short in this avenue is how little was done AFTER release. The base they released with was good 6 months ago, but the fact that the only changes we’ve seen have been the removal of features (orbs, yak events etc…) has just be crazy

3. No gear hunt – Probably one of the biggest things for me. I don’t play WoW or any game like it because I will NEVER grind dungeons. I will do a dungeon once and I am perfectly content never doing it again. Perhaps rarely if friends want to run it, but only to hang out with friends…The idea of repeating a scripted dungeon scenario 100 times for the next “tier” of armor is something I am incredibly opposed to. GW1 was incredibly because it wasn’t about gear. Yes there were unique looks you could collect, but it never made you better than anyone else. This was one of the BIGGEST things that they ADVERTISED about GW2. Mike O’Brien made the now famous quote about it (a part of which should be in my signature). It was made ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that if a person wanted to spend hours running a dungeon their gear would be differentiated SOLELY by looks. It was spelled out PERFECTLY. Absolutely no way to interpret any other way. Yet, they clearly and almost equally perfectly went in the exact opposite direction…where we are now.

4. Continuation of the story – They got that just fine. It’s a minor point for me

In any case: To sum up I would say the expectation was to have a game in the SPIRIT of GW1, that is a skill-driven game with very little vertical progression (quick to max level, quick to best armor) and all about horizontal progression. Also a game with great PvP (both large and small scenarios). This has not been produced, in my opinion.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Azjenco.9425:

I’d actually like it if ascended items remain on the trinket side of the inventory, but since ANet already said that more types of ascended items will be rolled out through the year, it’s already a certainty that we’ll be seeing ascended armors soon enough.

Well, it’s possible? But they had said that before rolling out the Amulets and now the Accessories. Hopefully they complete this with alternate ways of earning Back pieces and call it complete.

I would really like that. Just add more exotic armors and ways of obtaining them, and I’d be very happy.

tigirius.9014:

Sorry you’re wrong. There is no user generated content in this title. Simply joining a group is not content creation. The only games that have that have a foundry system. Unless AN makes a foundry program for user created DE’s players are not creating content at all, they are using the content.

You must be in one of those lifeless guilds where nobody ever chats and everyone wears solid black CoF armor. LOL.

Some of the things I have seen in MMO’s are custom made and moderated tournaments (even with prizes), ad hoc “missions”/scavenger hunts/challenges, and personalized tutorial/training sessions. Sure, these were ephemeral in nature because there was no modding tools/submission method provided to make permanent artifacts… but if an official “Go kill X of Y” quest passes for “content,” then these were much, much better “content” — no matter how hokey their implementation.

As for GW2, sadly, I haven’t seen much of this (some). Perhaps it is the audience, that the title is uninspiring, too rewards-driven, too limited in what you can moderate, and/or a lack of community generation… Some in community have attempted to fill in the notable lack of GvG in the release, but I am unsure of the quality. Still, there are additions to the atmosphere and “help system” provided by many players. And then we have “value-added” artifacts created external to the game… notably the Wiki and countless Youtube videos… seriously, a fanbase creates so much material that adds to the value of an MMO and which would be cost-prohibitive to provide in a traditional manner…