Guild Wars 2

Hey guys,

I wanted to compare my feelings about following topic with other players.

A few weeks ago I started a new Character …. at lvl 35 I wanted to go into Dungeons and then everything began…. I got kicked out, insulted etc.. when I dared to join a Group for AC at lvl 35….

It took me about 2 Hours to get together a Group for AC to enter it…!!

In my honest opinion many people have to change their mind in this game….
Of course I didnt join Groups which inteded to Speed-farm it…Just normal runthrough groups…People have to accept that its a Game and that profit is not the most important thing.. It should be fun which is bigger if you share it with others….

To put it in a nutshell: STOP kicking lower levels out of your groups, just because it will take 10 minutes longer…. Lets be a good community and be friendly to everyone!!!

What do you guys think about that?
What is your experience about that topic?

Thanks in advance

use LFG, post add with your lvl looking for similar or higher for a fun run. Should work.

There’s no real way to combat that kind of attitude, best thing for you is to avoid it by finding a friendly guild.

they should really set a dungeon lvl limit that ensure smooth run so that its clear we won’t have these problems.

I agree with you OP. It’s a totally messed up mentality. The dungeon opens up to you at level X so if you’re level is >= X then you should be able to do it. Unfortunately, previous MMOs have ingrained the idea of “speed runs” and “farming” and the like and there is no way to fix that.

I recently reached level 80 and I have not done even one dungeon. Read that again ANet. I have yet to do a dungeon and in great part it is because of the mentality mentioned by the OP.

Now, with the LFG tool things might be better. I admit I have not tried it yet.

skonietz.9418:

To put it in a nutshell: STOP kicking lower levels out of your groups, just because it will take 10 minutes longer…. Lets be a good community and be friendly to everyone!!

I’d say you should join a group of level thirtysomethings if you wanna do the dungeon. Otherwise, it’s not fair to expect people to carry you through the dungeon. You know that you will die and do little damage, so you are either clearly expecting the rest of the group to do things for you, or you don’t expect it to take just ‘10 minutes longer’

Can you find people lvl 80 who come along with you? of course you will, there’s always a kind spirit when you need it, but don’t expect everybody to be that kind spirit.

Aenesthesia.1697:

skonietz.9418:

To put it in a nutshell: STOP kicking lower levels out of your groups, just because it will take 10 minutes longer…. Lets be a good community and be friendly to everyone!!

I’d say you should join a group of level thirtysomethings if you wanna do the dungeon. Otherwise, it’s not fair to expect people to carry you through the dungeon. You know that you will die and do little damage, so you are either clearly expecting the rest of the group to do things for you, or you don’t expect it to take just ‘10 minutes longer’

Can you find people lvl 80 who come along with you? of course you will, there’s always a kind spirit when you need it, but don’t expect everybody to be that kind spirit.

Whats the point of setting lvl 30 sth as the level you can access the dungeon while you can’t do it with a bunch of lvl30s because you do no damage.

Dear OP,

This is a huge problem in the game… but the game is all about the level 80.

I say that tongue and cheek, every game is the same bs with this topic.
Getting a dungeon with out being 80 just plain stinks, I have had the same treatment just this past week. Sorry your not 80… GOOD BYE.

Or do you have a 80? get on it. Umm no .. i’m playing this toon for a reason that i want to level it up and enjoy the content.

Lame. Also I have seen more people doing crappy things that that game allows them to do in dungeons. Makes me wonder if devs play that game even. :/

zedtanga.6571:

Dear OP,

This is a huge problem in the game… but the game is all about the level 80.

I say that tongue and cheek, every game is the same bs with this topic.
Getting a dungeon with out being 80 just plain stinks, I have had the same treatment just this past week. Sorry your not 80… GOOD BYE.

Or do you have a 80? get on it. Umm no .. i’m playing this toon for a reason that i want to level it up and enjoy the content.

Lame. Also I have seen more people doing crappy things that that game allows them to do in dungeons. Makes me wonder if devs play that game even. :/

Thats why it isnt alt friendly.

I’ll be honest, I hate getting under leveled characters in my group, you’re just a hindrance to the part and that’s the truth. Unfortunately everything is scaled to 80, regardless of whether or not it’s ‘viable’ you will be getting hit like a mac truck by mobs and don’t have all of your traits to support the party etc.

My suggestion is to just do events and such until you are 80 and have all your traits, then dungeon for gear or better yet buy a full set of exotics on the TP first. Not the players fault.

I can’t even imagine doing some of the dungeons at actual level appropriate without exotics… would be torture in PuGs. There is a reason why all the “QQ dungeons are impossible” at the start of the game was happening. Pretty sure ANet tested them at 80 instead of entrance level.

That said, I wouldn’t kick one underlevel out of the group since we could just carry them. In fact I’ve never kicked anyone regardless.

pdg.8462:

I agree with you OP. It’s a totally messed up mentality. The dungeon opens up to you at level X so if you’re level is >= X then you should be able to do it. Unfortunately, previous MMOs have ingrained the idea of “speed runs” and “farming” and the like and there is no way to fix that.

I recently reached level 80 and I have not done even one dungeon. Read that again ANet. I have yet to do a dungeon and in great part it is because of the mentality mentioned by the OP.

Now, with the LFG tool things might be better. I admit I have not tried it yet.

Likewise for me. I have 3 level 80 toons and a 43 and haven’t even finished Arah on the 80s because of this. This is also why I think the Story modes of ALL dungeons should be part of the personal story. To advance you have to do the appropriate dungeon just like the Missions were in GW.

skonietz.9418:

Hey guys,

I wanted to compare my feelings about following topic with other players.
snip

They should work on a true downscaling system (i.e. one that also removes traits).
Problem solved.
Every dungeon would become more challenging and players of the right level would be welcome.
You can’t change people, but you can change the game.

I’m sorry you’ve had such a bad experience. Unfortunately people can be jerks sometimes.

On the bright side, there are players that don’t mind running dungeons with <80s.
The trick is finding a guild that is dungeon focused. A group of people that just love doing dungeons.

Some guilds will have set days/times where they do nothing but help alts and lower level players do dungeon runs. I see players using their 80s to help others, then switch to their alts and get help in return.

My guild uses both AC and CM to help level our guildmates’ alts and to help them test to see how their builds would do in a dungeon environment. We often take them into those dungeons when they are 5 levels below and then again when they’ve reached the dungeon level requirement to be able to get the chests.

It is not uncommon for us to start our weekend dungeon runs with a “warm up” in those two dungeons. The exp is good for their alts and we get to test group synergy and let them tweak their builds.

Doesn’t take that long, we get some fun doing an easy run and we get some extra coin. Win-win.

I hate to sound like the proverbial player who says: “join a guild” but having a group of like-minded folks you can play with is not a bad thing.

Hopefully you can find that using LFG will help.

Another alternative is to use mapchat in Queensdale (where there’s typically a champ train running) and explain that you’re putting an at-level group together for AC or CM and see if you get any takers. I’ve seen that work; but I’m on a very friendly community server and it sounds like your experience has been different.

Sorry you’ve had that experience.

Hope LFG works for you.

And good luck.

It’s Arena’s fault. They made dungeons unfit for lowbies.

Unlike someone said, everything is not scaled up to lvl 80, but to the level of the dungeon. Yes, lvl 80 chracters still have an advantage of superior equipment, but the dungeons can be done at their correct level.

I am perfectly happy to have people who are the correct level for the dungeon in the party like OP. However, I am not happy when there are people more than 5 levels below the recommended level, even when the player is experienced.

When we started last year, we were always trying to level up to get to the next dungeon. It was exciting, fun and a bit scary. I am sorry if nowadays people miss that by having to wait until they are lvl 80 and geared up.

I don’t blame people kicking lowies. It’s their right to choose who they want to team up with. A lowie may not only lack skills and traits but experience. There are a lot of people who want a fast and smooth run and that’s why they won’t accept anything but lvl 80s. However saying dungeons are unfit for lowies is nonsense. It’s perfectly doable. If you want to do dungeons with a low level character simply use the LFG tool and add “path whatever levekitten ” for example if you want to run AC. It will be filled just as fast as a lvl 80 group. This is also a nice way to make friends. lvl 80 runs usually consist of a “hello” and a “thx for the run” without socializing.

dukefx.9730:

lvl 80 runs usually consist of a “hello” and a “thx for the run” without socializing.

rofl! I find that comment hilarious. It’s true for most things, but once you’ve done a dungeon enough times you just zone out. People just want to finish that path and move on to the next one.

Only problem I have is when I put lvl 80 in the description and players join without reading the description. Yeah you are getting kicked.

I don’t speed run but it is just easier when everyone is mega-geared and can offer great support or dps.

After a million runs you just want to get it done.

Use the lfg and note your level like others have said. You shouldn’t expect every level 80 to carry you through dungeons. Most of them are there to get tokens, not to drag dead weight to level them up. This game is “play how you want”, if someone wants to play with all 80’s, that’s their prerogative. Either switch to your 80 or find a group that’s cool with carrying you.

I find the dungeons more than difficult enough with a fully leveled group. Doing them with underleveled characters just makes it worse. I have almost 6000 AP and have only “completed” (all paths) one dungeon. Only done half the story dungeons. Not a speed runner, not elite, but strongly prefer that everyone is at least level 80 if I’m going to muster up the effort to try get through a dungeon in this game.

One of the problem here is that people assume those who are running 80 only groups are eilitist and only ever run 80 only groups.

I run both kinds of groups. When I have more time and I don’t care, I don’t specify a level requirement. I’ll take you right at level 35 because I know that I can carry you through it.

Also if I am running with a few other friends whom I know can carry as well. We’ll have no problem getting you through.

If I am trying to get the dungeon done in 15 minutes before the daily hits, I may choose to run an 80 only group. If I post for that and you join anyway – I will boot you.

I have a level 40ish theif right now that also has trouble getting dungeon groups. I know the drill. I have 5500+ achievment points, I have dungeon master, I have the Liadri mini, and I have yellow and green super weapons. I am still the first to get booted if the party wipes. It is what it is.

Wicked Rin.1972:

dukefx.9730:

lvl 80 runs usually consist of a “hello” and a “thx for the run” without socializing.

rofl! I find that comment hilarious. It’s true for most things, but once you’ve done a dungeon enough times you just zone out. People just want to finish that path and move on to the next one.

Exactly! If you have a party of lowies / people new to the dungeon you at least discuss strategy or something.

It’s pretty much an MMO thing. TSW is worse for eg – anyone wanting to join the upper echelon dungeons will not be allowed in most groups. No first timers allowed are reg specified (which can only hurt the community long term)

It was the same here after the new TA path – “experienced only”…less than 24hrs after the patch, when plenty of ppl wouldn’t have even had the chance to log in and play let alone be experienced!

Setting your own lfg descriptions or joining a like minded guild are the standard ways to get round this. I personally have no issue with level/prof/build/experience for those I team with and there are plenty of players I’m sure who are the same.

Doon.2364:

It’s Arena’s fault. They made dungeons unfit for lowbies.

Yup. I think the base level requirement is misrepresented as well, explorable paths are really better suited to 80s anyway. Most of the gear you can buy with tokens is max-level.

I’m a big fan of civility in dealing with others online (and in person). That said, I’m not in favor of telling other people how to play the game. No one should be obligated to spend their play time doing something they prefer not to do. Nor are they obligated to lessen the time it takes you to find a party by changing their preferences. If they’re willing to, more power to them.

It’s not about being jerks. Some groups don’t want to have to explain the mechanics to new players or have to deal with a newbie getting downed every encounter, or someone playing a class and using a totally inappropriate weapon/build.

If I want my party to be strictly lvl 80s, that’s my right as a party leader. If you don’t like it, then I will have to kick you and you will have to find a party that will accomodate you. Thankfully we have a LFG tool now that can be catered to your interests.

Low level character in dungeon= “LEEERROOYYYY JEEEENKINNNNNSSSSS”

Level 80’s = “SOB, Here we go again”

/sarcasm

It’s an Elitist(read WoW and other modern MMOs) additude when you are running a lower level dungeon. We never had these problems in GW. It’s also one of the reasons that people liked GW, you didn’t have the speed and farming runs. Heck you didn’t even have those problems when doing the Hard made clears.

I hate to think of the kind of attitudes people will get if we get more weapon skills to choose from. “LFG AC must be 80 and have x build”

Galphar.3901:

…you didn’t have the speed and farming runs.

Actually, GW had speed clears and farming runs. And only people with a certain build would be allowed into the group.

I will agree that GW groups were more tolerant towards new players, teaching them how to run the role/run and such.

As it stands, this is just a preface to how it will be after full Ascended gear drops.

“Ping your gear and weapons.” Oh, you don’t have it? Expect a kick.

Sometimes it’s fun to run with lowbies and newbies. I find this to be especially the case in CM PUGs, I rarely find an experienced group doing that dungeon. The most fun I’ve had in this game in weeks was a CM p3 run with some green and blue geared <80s. Ele kept zerging into every encounter, we failed miserably at the skips, Guard was the first one down in every single fight…Lol.

But it was a blast. Took well over and hour but everyone had enough of a sense of humor that we really did enjoy it.

Problem is most PUGs with lowbies end up like this, they’re either new players who need to be taught or competent but not just contributing enough dps or support (experienced players usually won’t burden strangers with an under level character, because they’d not want to put up with that either) . Dungeon rewards are too important a source of income for many players to take the risk of spending extra time on a path.

They should just badly downscale armor and weaps stats as well as level, to actually match level 80s to that level. At the moment, the very downscaling system has no meaning, sidekicked 89s are still overpowered compared to any player of that lower level.
Plus, if you think you may not complete a ridiculously easy dungeon like AC, because of a couple of lower levels in team, you should ask yourself how badly you suck as a player yourself first. I saw lower levels with 500 achis that could kick butts very badly to over half of the 6k+ AP 80s dudes out there.
And I speak after duoing almost every dungeon in this game, AC included.

A group with 5 level 80’s compared with a group of 3 level 80’s a level 70 and a level 40, for example, will complete the dungeon in the exact same amount of time (assuming the players are of equal skill)

You all get scaled to the same level.

You all do similar amounts of damage (Assuming same gear type)

Just ignore the elitist level 80 only kitten and find some friendly normal players, Hell, iv seen more bad/useless level 80’s then I have lower levelled players.

#My little ranty over, I think as long as the player is at the level the content was designed for (AC explore, level 35, for example) there shouldn’t be any problem at all.

OP is right, people need to be more open to lower levels. If you have 4 80s and 1 35, or heck even 3 80s and 2 35s it will still be beatable. Especially if that 35 has decent gear for that level. Especially if those 80s know what they are doing. It isn’t that hard.

Draknar.5748:

OP is right, people need to be more open to lower levels. If you have 4 80s and 1 35, or heck even 3 80s and 2 35s it will still be beatable. Especially if that 35 has decent gear for that level. Especially if those 80s know what they are doing. It isn’t that hard.

Our guild consistently does Explorables with only 4 level 80s. Adding in a 5th person who is at the dungeon level, if they know what they are doing (and yes, has decent gear) is often times a ‘bonus’ for us.

And we have no problem stopping and sharing encounter mechanics/strategy for someone who has never been through. That’s just what old school players do.

Take less than 5 min to form a “LFM AC anyone welcome” group.

If your a lowbie that dont’ want to group with lowbie yourself. No 80 will take you.

What’s the point? If you want to get a level, believe me, it will be faster to do it in the open world alone. If you want a challange – just gather a group of low-level players (thanks to the new LFG, it allows such things now). Write a proper note like "not 80lvl party " and it’s all. If I wanted challange – I would do just that.
But, believe me again, most of the low-level players don’t want to join such group too. Why? Just because they hope for train of 80 lvl players, which drag them around the dungeon on their backs. They clearly understands that they delays group. Understands that 80 and 40 is not the same, even with dawnscale. They do not care about the fact that they can cause wipes. That the group is losing a lot of time, etc. Why should I care about these players then? I want to have a good time, doing dungeon quickly and smoothly. For what purpose I will spend extra 10 minutes on a player who do not respect me and party members?

Natsu Dragneel.1625:

A group with 5 level 80’s compared with a group of 3 level 80’s a level 70 and a level 40, for example, will complete the dungeon in the exact same amount of time (assuming the players are of equal skill)

You all get scaled to the same level.

You all do similar amounts of damage (Assuming same gear type)

Just ignore the elitist level 80 only kitten and find some friendly normal players, Hell, iv seen more bad/useless level 80’s then I have lower levelled players.

#My little ranty over, I think as long as the player is at the level the content was designed for (AC explore, level 35, for example) there shouldn’t be any problem at all.

First, check it out. Dressed 80th player has nearly 20% advantage compared with 45lvl with dawnscale . Without taking in the calculation traits mechanics, and the fact that low-level players veeeeery rarely have best in slot equipment appropriate to their level.

In general, if you want train – show respect and make the appropriate notification in LFG. If you really need a Challenge – get the whole group of low-level and go ahead

Galtrix.7369:

I got a group together one day for AC when I was level 40ish. Everyone else was level 80. They all said they wanted to kick me, but did nothing about it. Everything went perfectly fine in AC, everything was going smooth and I never died, but everyone else in my party got downed at least twice. 2 minutes later, I get a kick and a nice whisper saying, “Don’t come back until you’re level 80”. I sent them a nice message saying, “L2P”. Needless to say, I added them to my friends list so I could plan revenge one day.

I leveled to 80, got a commander title, world completion, and I made a build that let me farm CoF extremely quickly, so quickly in fact, that I actually had people lining up in a queue to join my party for CoF farm runs. So I’m farming one day, and lo and behold, 2 guys that kicked me from AC showed up begging for a run. I let them in. I whisper the other members of the party explaining what happened to me and I tell them my plan. We get to the final boss, and I vote to kick them both when the boss was at 10% health. I got some pretty mean whispers, but all I said was, “Remember me? Now don’t kick lowbies or they may own your life one day”.

Because this really happened.

Btw, are there any videos of a level 55 pug in greens doing TA forward/up? :-p

pdg.8462:

I agree with you OP. It’s a totally messed up mentality. The dungeon opens up to you at level X so if you’re level is >= X then you should be able to do it. Unfortunately, previous MMOs have ingrained the idea of “speed runs” and “farming” and the like and there is no way to fix that.

I recently reached level 80 and I have not done even one dungeon. Read that again ANet. I have yet to do a dungeon and in great part it is because of the mentality mentioned by the OP.

Now, with the LFG tool things might be better. I admit I have not tried it yet.

I’m currently lv70, and I did my first dungeon at lv30

Sure, there are some jerks who kick people out because of low levels, but just find another one. There’s plenty all day long doing speedruns.

I often do dungeon runs with people lower than level 80 even people who are new to the game. Aslong as there’s a few of you who are level 80 and know the encounter you shouldnt have a problem. The game isn’t difficult, sometimes it’s better to try and make it more challenging for yourself. Besides, it’s good to challenge yourself as it forces you to improve.

Just make your own LFG post or look for one that says anyone welcome. I see the latter frequently.

I do wish they would filter out people wanting 80’s for speed runs to make life easier for people like you as well as the speed runners though. Parties fill up quickly and people don’t have time to read the descriptions. It sucks being kicked and it sucks wanting people for speed runs and having to kick the wrong type of player when they join your group. In both cases all the players are all annoyed (at the least) and have to relist in LFG. Something really needs to be done to help everyone involved.

It doesnt take much to get to level 80….

and yes lfg is your friend. You have no idea how many people hate that they have to be lvl 80 to dungeons. Ive actually joined some of the any level welcome groups for ac and honestly there not that bad (in my experience).
In fact i had a 4 man ac with me as a lvl 80 war, a lvl 80 engineer, a lvl 35 thief and a lvl 35 engineer, and we did a lot better than some full lvl 80 groups ive been a part of simply because people listened.

This is sadly what happens when you have too much vertical progression. You cannot merge the concept of an open and living world with a rigid progression system which effectively locks some players out from participating. It’s a design error which will most likely never be fixed since the basic design of the game is conflicted.

Galtrix.7369:

I got a group together one day for AC when I was level 40ish. Everyone else was level 80. They all said they wanted to kick me, but did nothing about it. Everything went perfectly fine in AC, everything was going smooth and I never died, but everyone else in my party got downed at least twice. 2 minutes later, I get a kick and a nice whisper saying, “Don’t come back until you’re level 80”. I sent them a nice message saying, “L2P”. Needless to say, I added them to my friends list so I could plan revenge one day.

I leveled to 80, got a commander title, world completion, and I made a build that let me farm CoF extremely quickly, so quickly in fact, that I actually had people lining up in a queue to join my party for CoF farm runs. So I’m farming one day, and lo and behold, 2 guys that kicked me from AC showed up begging for a run. I let them in. I whisper the other members of the party explaining what happened to me and I tell them my plan. We get to the final boss, and I vote to kick them both when the boss was at 10% health. I got some pretty mean whispers, but all I said was, “Remember me? Now don’t kick lowbies or they may own your life one day”.

I don’t know what’s more sad: that you did this, or that you’re apparently proud of it. Someone needs a hug.

Galtrix.7369:

I got a group together one day for AC when I was level 40ish. Everyone else was level 80. They all said they wanted to kick me, but did nothing about it. Everything went perfectly fine in AC, everything was going smooth and I never died, but everyone else in my party got downed at least twice. 2 minutes later, I get a kick and a nice whisper saying, “Don’t come back until you’re level 80”. I sent them a nice message saying, “L2P”. Needless to say, I added them to my friends list so I could plan revenge one day.

I leveled to 80, got a commander title, world completion, and I made a build that let me farm CoF extremely quickly, so quickly in fact, that I actually had people lining up in a queue to join my party for CoF farm runs. So I’m farming one day, and lo and behold, 2 guys that kicked me from AC showed up begging for a run. I let them in. I whisper the other members of the party explaining what happened to me and I tell them my plan. We get to the final boss, and I vote to kick them both when the boss was at 10% health. I got some pretty mean whispers, but all I said was, “Remember me? Now don’t kick lowbies or they may own your life one day”.

The Count of Monte Christo has nothing on you.

Galtrix.7369:

I got a group together one day for AC when I was level 40ish. Everyone else was level 80. They all said they wanted to kick me, but did nothing about it. Everything went perfectly fine in AC, everything was going smooth and I never died, but everyone else in my party got downed at least twice. 2 minutes later, I get a kick and a nice whisper saying, “Don’t come back until you’re level 80”. I sent them a nice message saying, “L2P”. Needless to say, I added them to my friends list so I could plan revenge one day.

I leveled to 80, got a commander title, world completion, and I made a build that let me farm CoF extremely quickly, so quickly in fact, that I actually had people lining up in a queue to join my party for CoF farm runs. So I’m farming one day, and lo and behold, 2 guys that kicked me from AC showed up begging for a run. I let them in. I whisper the other members of the party explaining what happened to me and I tell them my plan. We get to the final boss, and I vote to kick them both when the boss was at 10% health. I got some pretty mean whispers, but all I said was, “Remember me? Now don’t kick lowbies or they may own your life one day”.

I somehow doubt that anyone was lining up in queue to run dungeons with you.

yea this is bugging me as well, parties of all dungeon demand lv80. even tho it is available at 35

in FOTM as well, its only lv5 and people just keep kicking my uplevel even tho i have lv48 on my main and will probably do better then any of them.

either they just don’t give any lv80 gear for those dungeons (token exchange as well) or just don’t allow players that are 20 lvl higher then the dungeon level to enter, or they make a hard mode for lv80 only for them to get tokens for lv80 gears there.